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Thread: Carlos Sainz #55

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portago View Post
    Let the points at the end of the season decide who is better
    Pace decides who is better, and it's Charles.
    Forza Ferrari

  2. #32
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    From ScuderiaFerrarifans:
    "Plastic bag stuck on Carlos Sainz’s F1-75 car could explain poor pace in last stint of Hungarian GP"

    Hummm....
    I wonder why he was already slow the first two?

    Sorry, i like this one

  3. #33
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilles View Post
    Carlos is not at the level of Charles, that’s all, and Hungary has shown it again, as every race this year
    You might wish Charles was Spanish, but he’s not, Carlos is as strong as Fernando, but he’s not
    How dramatic is that?
    Kwow one thing: Wisepie deserves respect
    Merci beaucoup Gilles, don't know what I have said to deserve Portago's ironic remarks! Hardly worth replying to, je crois!

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Pace decides who is better, and it's Charles.
    Hahahahaha.... For a moment I thought that it was the points that decided who is better, but this fourm in its immense knowledge is proving me wrong.

    You can have pace in one race and screw it totally in the next, as CL does as of late... It's the points at the end of the season that counts.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portago View Post
    Hahahahaha.... For a moment I thought that it was the points that decided who is better, but this fourm in its immense knowledge is proving me wrong.

    You can have pace in one race and screw it totally in the next, as CL does as of late... It's the points at the end of the season that counts.
    Will still be Charles if we correctly say the car DNF's and strategy blunders are not his fault....
    Forza Ferrari

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Will still be Charles if we correctly say the car DNF's and strategy blunders are not his fault....
    Of course.

    And IF my granma had balls she would be my grandad

    Ifs don't count. Everybody has excuses. Points is what counts

    Let's talk at the end of the season, shall we?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    Merci beaucoup Gilles, don't know what I have said to deserve Portago's ironic remarks! Hardly worth replying to, je crois!
    Je t'en prie.
    Je crois que nous avons là un phénomène, un de plus...

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Will still be Charles if we correctly say the car DNF's and strategy blunders are not his fault....
    It's not necessary to be an engineer to understand:
    Sainz won at Sylverstone, so he was better than Charles
    Why can't you understand that?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portago View Post
    Of course.

    And IF my granma had balls she would be my grandad

    Ifs don't count. Everybody has excuses. Points is what counts

    Let's talk at the end of the season, shall we?
    You are right , everyone has excuses. Do we really want to start listing the excuses Carlos made this year for his failures?
    Don't get me wrong, I like Carlos, but fact of the matter is, there is a certain pattern this year.
    When he manages not to bin the car, (granted, it's finally been a while!), when he's racing in front of Charles, Charles catches up to him and here we go again :
    Charles pushes him to go faster
    Carlos just can't go faster cause Charles is faster than him
    Charles talks to the pitwall, asking about what it's gonna be
    Either pitwall tells Carlos he has 2 laps to go faster or concede position, or lo and behold, he needs to pit.
    After pits, the magic happens and he's behind Charles.

    Listen, between two drivers , they cannot both be exactly fast; in this case Charles is the faster. No shame in it.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portago View Post
    It's very simple. The goal in F1 is to earn points and finish with the maximum of them at the end of the season. Sainz beat Lecrerc fair and square in 2021, and that's that. Let's see how the season ends goes before we appoint a Number One in the team...
    Quote Originally Posted by Portago View Post
    Of course. Leclerc ended with less points because he had very bad luck and Carlos did not.

    Come one. Grow up.

    The point system is there to decide who is better and that's the one who gets more points.
    Quote Originally Posted by Portago View Post
    It was ironic, dude.



    You definitely need to grow up. Grown ups understand irony. You obvioulsy don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Portago View Post
    It does not matter whether Charles is Spanish or not. He was beaten in 2021 by Carlos on points awarded on their performance on the track.

    This year, as ever, I will decide who is the better of the two based on the points earned at the end of the season. Lecrerc is looking better, but only just. He is too prone to make mistakes under pressure, IMO.

    As to Wisepie, respect is earned, not granted...
    Quote Originally Posted by Portago View Post
    Let the points at the end of the season decide who is better
    Quote Originally Posted by Portago View Post
    Hahahahaha.... For a moment I thought that it was the points that decided who is better, but this fourm in its immense knowledge is proving me wrong.

    You can have pace in one race and screw it totally in the next, as CL does as of late... It's the points at the end of the season that counts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Portago View Post
    Of course.

    And IF my granma had balls she would be my grandad

    Ifs don't count. Everybody has excuses. Points is what counts

    Let's talk at the end of the season, shall we?
    Do you think DNF's play an integral part in the championship title or "who's the better team-mate?" Yes or No please.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  12. #42
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    I believe @ Ferrari it's Carlos and Mick with a happy $$ Santander. Charles wrecking Seb ended there. Not better not worse; Charles met his match with Carlos.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Charles met his match with Carlos.

    You realize Leclerc is beating Sainz in points after 13 races given the DNF's, pit strategy errors, and driver errors. Sainz is no where Leclerc in race pace......let alone qualifying.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    You realize Leclerc is beating Sainz in points after 13 races given the DNF's, pit strategy errors, and driver errors. Sainz is no where Leclerc in race pace......let alone qualifying.
    You seriously want to bring back to reason and Portago and Brembo?
    Good luck!

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilles View Post
    You seriously want to bring back to reason and Portago and Brembo?
    Good luck!
    I'm bored and no F1 for a month. I thought I might entertain myself.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    I'm bored and no F1 for a month. I thought I might entertain myself.
    That's a good reason! I just hope Ferrari doesn't put Carlos car on fire again or any other DNF ! Carlos ; Mick & Santander be the future! $$$$ at least a million Michael fans are waiting.

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Will still be Charles if we correctly say the car DNF's and strategy blunders are not his fault....
    yes, but what if the team steals his points?? i dont even talk about dnf s which are related to the car issues.

    just remember british gp, monaco and hungary. three victories thrown away by the team. and he ended up with 5th not even second

    at least 75 points thrown away by the team. and more than that, some problems in his car. like azerbaijan, spain etc.

    and at least 40 points his mistakes in imola and france this is the least part of the losing points

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    You realize Leclerc is beating Sainz in points after 13 races given the DNF's, pit strategy errors, and driver errors. Sainz is no where Leclerc in race pace......let alone qualifying.
    Just ignore the troll. The less people talk to it, (not him, it), the more the chances it will go away.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Just ignore the troll. The less people talk to it, (not him, it), the more the chances it will go away.
    You need to practice what you preach! Charles and Carlos are equal as far as able together to get Ferrari the WCC with points. Telling everyone you can to ignore the troll applies to you too!! Even with just 7 WDCs Lewis is the G O A T! So far. Trolling not intended!

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    You need to practice what you preach! Charles and Carlos are equal as far as able together to get Ferrari the WCC with points. Telling everyone you can to ignore the troll applies to you too!! Even with just 7 WDCs Lewis is the G O A T! So far. Trolling not intended!
    There is no GOAT in F1.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    There is no GOAT in F1.
    O K with me. I just got caught up with some of the past posts using that term over and over by some fans. The most successful driver so far is more correct. The GOAT F-1 era was with the Grid Girls!
    Last edited by Brembo; 5th August 2022 at 00:33.

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    O K with me. I just got caught up with some of the past posts using that term over and over by some fans. The most successful driver so far is more correct. The GOAT F-1 era was with the Grid Girls!
    IF you want to claim there is a GOAT , there is a very interesting web site which applies scientific methods trying to analyze data and not just preferences.
    https://f1-analysis.com/2022/05/31/who-is-the-f1-goat/

    It's a huge read so to cut things short this is the final list after several extrapolations explained within the link:

    1) Juan Manuel Fangio
    2) Alain Prost
    3) Michael Schumacher
    4) Fernando Alonso
    5) Alberto Ascari
    6) Jim Clark
    7) Ayrton Senna
    8) Max Verstappen
    9) Niki Lauda
    10) Nelson Piquet
    11) Lewis Hamilton
    12) Sebastian Vettel
    13) Stirling Moss
    14) Jackie Stewart
    15) Jack Brabham

    To me this is a very sensible list.
    Conclusions
    -The model generally thinks there is 1 dominant driver at any given time in F1 history, although occasionally there are crossover points or times where there isn’t such a driver.

    -Drivers considered the best of their era are: Fangio, (Moss,) Clark, Lauda, Prost, (Senna), Schumacher, Alonso and Verstappen.

    -Whilst it’s Alonso, rather than Hamilton or Vettel that is considered the best driver for the majority of the last 20 years, both #44 and #5 are thought of as well above average drivers. This is true both in their era and across F1 history.

    -Verstappen is currently considered the best driver in F1, but his ranking within F1’s hierarchy of all-time greats is still fluctuating. It is also possible that another driver (e.g. Leclerc, Norris or Russell) could provide a consistent challenge in the coming years.

    -The model considers the F1 grid to be getting stronger over time. This is true for the best drivers of the era and the top half of the grid as a whole.

    -Not adjusting for this fact leaves Max Verstappen as the greatest F1 driver of all time.

    -Adjusting for the grid increasing in strength leaves Fangio and Prost as the 2 best drivers given the era that they drove in.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  23. #53
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    I'm happy to see 5 possible drivers with a chance for one of them to win the race on Sundays. There's no for sure winner which makes the races terrific start to finish. I believe that a driver when in his 40 s is not too old to keep driving.

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portago View Post
    It does not matter whether Charles is Spanish or not. He was beaten in 2021 by Carlos on points awarded on their performance on the track.

    This year, as ever, I will decide who is the better of the two based on the points earned at the end of the season. Lecrerc is looking better, but only just. He is too prone to make mistakes under pressure, IMO.

    As to Wisepie, respect is earned, not granted...
    If you are going to do that, why even bother watching the sport? Just keep looking at the standings.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance." - Michael Schumacher

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    I'm happy to see 5 possible drivers with a chance for one of them to win the race on Sundays. There's no for sure winner which makes the races terrific start to finish. I believe that a driver when in his 40 s is not too old to keep driving.
    Who's the 5th one? Only Ferrari and Red Bull have the pace to win.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance." - Michael Schumacher

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    IF you want to claim there is a GOAT , there is a very interesting web site which applies scientific methods trying to analyze data and not just preferences.
    https://f1-analysis.com/2022/05/31/who-is-the-f1-goat/

    It's a huge read so to cut things short this is the final list after several extrapolations explained within the link:

    1) Juan Manuel Fangio
    2) Alain Prost
    3) Michael Schumacher
    4) Fernando Alonso
    5) Alberto Ascari
    6) Jim Clark
    7) Ayrton Senna
    8) Max Verstappen
    9) Niki Lauda
    10) Nelson Piquet
    11) Lewis Hamilton
    12) Sebastian Vettel
    13) Stirling Moss
    14) Jackie Stewart
    15) Jack Brabham

    To me this is a very sensible list.
    Would it even be fair to compare the different eras from Fangio to Michael to the current drivers? I skimmed through the article you posted but I couldn't find a part that said it takes into account both of it. Regardless, for me, Michael Schumacher is the unapologetic GOAT of Formula 1 and it wouldn't matter to me if someone else comes along to win more races or championships but I'm a heavily biased guy so there's that.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance." - Michael Schumacher

  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC Fan View Post
    Would it even be fair to compare the different eras from Fangio to Michael to the current drivers? I skimmed through the article you posted but I couldn't find a part that said it takes into account both of it. Regardless, for me, Michael Schumacher is the unapologetic GOAT of Formula 1 and it wouldn't matter to me if someone else comes along to win more races or championships but I'm a heavily biased guy so there's that.
    The mathematical model does not just take into account the victories and so forth; if that was the case Lewis would be #1, but lo and behold, the GOAT for a certain web site troll, is just #11 (!)
    Why is that is explained in the website, but in a nutsell it has to do with pretty much what has been said over the years, strong car equals strong performances.
    Also, allow me to quote something again :

    Conclusions
    -The model generally thinks there is 1 dominant driver at any given time in F1 history, although occasionally there are crossover points or times where there isn’t such a driver.

    -Drivers considered the best of their era are: Fangio, (Moss,) Clark, Lauda, Prost, (Senna), Schumacher, Alonso and Verstappen.

    -Whilst it’s Alonso, rather than Hamilton or Vettel that is considered the best driver for the majority of the last 20 years, both #44 and #5 are thought of as well above average drivers. This is true both in their era and across F1 history.

    -Verstappen is currently considered the best driver in F1, but his ranking within F1’s hierarchy of all-time greats is still fluctuating. It is also possible that another driver (e.g. Leclerc, Norris or Russell) could provide a consistent challenge in the coming years.

    -The model considers the F1 grid to be getting stronger over time. This is true for the best drivers of the era and the top half of the grid as a whole.

    -Not adjusting for this fact leaves Max Verstappen as the greatest F1 driver of all time.

    -Adjusting for the grid increasing in strength leaves Fangio and Prost as the 2 best drivers given the era that they drove in.
    In short, the reason (IMO) that JMF and Alain are #1 and #2 is pretty the same with the reason Ham is #11, Just consider the conditions he got 5 WDC under - car, conditions, tracks etc.
    Then you have Michael who (as has been said over and over) sure he had 2 dominant cars but apart from 2002 and 4, he did have to make the difference based on his skills.
    Not to mention how he fought along with the rest of the team to build the team from 1996 on ,and then he did have 2 titles before that.

    I could go on for Alonso too, but you get my drift :)
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  28. #58
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    Lewis has 103 wins and so far 7WDCs along with a few other records. He's not that bad a driver. Ferrari sent out a great car this year , let's see how it goes for the rest of the season.

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