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Thread: 2022 Mexican Grand Prix - Race Thread

  1. #121
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    #AMus: reports that aside from being down on power, Ferrari got the wrong setup for Mexico and by the time they realized it, it was too late.

    Binotto: “We didn't realise it yet in FP1. The tyre test in FP2 certainly didn't help either. The last time we were this far off was in Spa. We now have to draw the right conclusions and find our old strength again in the last two races.."

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    During the first half of the season, I would never imagine we would be at risk of getting beaten by Mercedes.
    Credits where its due, they've done a great job recovering and will likely be back in the title race next season.

    Our mid season development seems to remain a weakness.
    Mid season development + Pit wall + Leadership everything is weak.

    Drivers are making mistakes due to less confidence & pressure.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rishu View Post
    We cannot afford to lose Mattia the engineer, and he having now worked as the team boss will not accept working under someone else
    Ferrari cannot afford his failed leadership.

    Which would you rather have? You want to see Ferrari P3 forever because you can’t bear the thought of firing him?

    Stockholm Syndrome at it’s finest.

  4. #124
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    Mattia Binotto:

    “In Hungary, we were criticised. It always happens when we do something wrong.”

    “But Mercedes have lost the last few races by picking the wrong tyres. It is not just up to us to choose between different tyres with the risk of making mistakes.”


    I am not able to understand this guy.

    Everyone did choose hards in the last race. If he’s referring to Mercs, Lewis or Russel didn’t loose the position yesterday like Charles did in Hungary. What is he comparing, he is defending like crazy when it’s clear that his team did a mistake.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Mattia Binotto:

    ďIn Hungary, we were criticised. It always happens when we do something wrong.Ē

    ďBut Mercedes have lost the last few races by picking the wrong tyres. It is not just up to us to choose between different tyres with the risk of making mistakes.Ē


    I am not able to understand this guy.

    Everyone did choose hards in the last race. If heís referring to Mercs, Lewis or Russel didnít loose the position yesterday like Charles did in Hungary. What is he comparing, he is defending like crazy when itís clear that his team did a mistake.
    He is right regarding the tyre choices. Mercedes should have won this race, but they dropped the ball badly. Just like we did in Hungary.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucewayne View Post
    He is right regarding the tyre choices. Mercedes should have won this race, but they dropped the ball badly. Just like we did in Hungary.
    Wrong.

    See the outcome.

    Hungary -> Leclerc was fastest & was a complete winner. Then came the strategy call which eventually cost the win.

    Mercs-> tried to different strategy to win. Didnít loose anything.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Mattia Binotto:

    “In Hungary, we were criticised. It always happens when we do something wrong.”

    “But Mercedes have lost the last few races by picking the wrong tyres. It is not just up to us to choose between different tyres with the risk of making mistakes.”


    I am not able to understand this guy.

    Everyone did choose hards in the last race. If he’s referring to Mercs, Lewis or Russel didn’t loose the position yesterday like Charles did in Hungary. What is he comparing, he is defending like crazy when it’s clear that his team did a mistake.
    If Mercedes had Ferrari’s car at the beginning of the season they would have won both championships this year. Period.

    That’s the difference in leadership.

    Binotto needs to get his own house in order before he tries to deflect to a team which went from nowhere to within striking distance of Second in the championship while his own has degraded precipitously the whole year.

    He is truly a complete failure.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucewayne View Post
    He is right regarding the tyre choices. Mercedes should have won this race, but they dropped the ball badly. Just like we did in Hungary.
    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Wrong.

    See the outcome.

    Hungary -> Leclerc was fastest & was a complete winner. Then came the strategy call which eventually cost the win.

    Mercs-> tried to different strategy to win. Didn’t loose anything.
    This race came down to tire choice.

    Redbull chose softs then mediums then mediums.

    Mercedes chose hards then hards.

    Mercedes told Lewis that the mediums were going to drop off at the end of the race when Lewis complained about the hards....I'm still waiting for the mediums to drop off.

    Max was pulling 1:22's throughout the WHOLE RACE.....except for the VSC.......Max did'nt do 1:23's or 1:24's.....but 1:22's.


    Note: After Max pitted from softs to mediums on lap 25(???), Max's pit told him that the softs were of no concern on tread life and could have gone longer on the softs.

    The Redbull RB18 is awesome on tire degredation regardless of tire choice given the track.
    Last edited by jgonzalesm6; 31st October 2022 at 10:37.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  9. #129
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    Ferrari ran a further 15 HP in Mexico, which add up to those 'lost' after Sainz's breakup in Austria. However, with the introduction of the DT39, the F1-75 is no longer the same even if Binotto continues to deny.

    @Formu1a_uno

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    This race came down to tire choice.

    Redbull chose softs then mediums then mediums.

    Mercedes chose hards then hards.

    Mercedes told Lewis that the mediums were going to drop off at the end of the race when Lewis complained about the hards....I'm still waiting for the mediums to drop off.

    Max was pulling 1:22's throughout the WHOLE RACE.....except for the VSC.......Max did'nt do 1:23's or 1:24's.....but 1:22's.


    Note: After Max pitted from softs to mediums on lap 25(???), Max's pit told him that the softs were of no concern on tread life and could have gone longer on the softs.

    The Redbull RB18 is awesome on tire degredation regardless of tire choice given the track.
    That’s what I said yesterday. No matter what strategy you throw at RB-Max they are coming out on top. RB18 is a beast in Race.

    The point which I’m trying to highlight it, Mattia was saying Merc did a mistake with Hard Tyres & he’s comparing with our tyre choice in Hungary. Which is absolutely idiotic.

    Merc nowhere in winning position in Mexico, but in Hungary Leclerc was in a winning situation. Both are different.

  11. #131
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    E6437EB4-F721-4D53-A7D5-A71027A7170D.jpeg
    Ferrari 2022 F1 Team
    Sorry I love Ferrari maybe 2023 Ö

  12. #132
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    Boring and depressing race for Ferrari but I'll take the double points finish as a bonus and pray that we can come back in Brazil, and at least be competitive. This was a a classic damage limitation race for the team which is both unforgiveable and embarrassing, given our status before the TD39 ruling which has helped Mercedes and no-one else. Our drivers deserve better and a proper team principal with balls would help.

  13. #133
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    Race Pace

    1st stint:
    - VER (S)
    - HAM, +0.033 (M)
    - PER, +0.166 (S)
    - RUS, +0.205 (M)
    - SAI, +0.735 (S)
    - LEC, +0.912 (S)

    2nd stint:
    - VER (M)
    - HAM, +0.212 (H)
    - PER, +0.223 (M)
    - RUS, +0.236 (H, less fuel)
    - SAI, +0.626 (M)
    - LEC, +0.662 (M)

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    That’s what I said yesterday. No matter what strategy you throw at RB-Max they are coming out on top. RB18 is a beast in Race.

    The point which I’m trying to highlight it, Mattia was saying Merc did a mistake with Hard Tyres & he’s comparing with our tyre choice in Hungary. Which is absolutely idiotic.

    Merc nowhere in winning position in Mexico, but in Hungary Leclerc was in a winning situation. Both are different.
    They were on the wrong tires from the beginning. Should have splitted strategy, aggressive undercut with one car. They dropped the ball, this should have been a Mercedes win. Should have started on softs and attacked Max at the start. Everyone here would have been furious if Ferrari made the same mistake yesterday. Rightfully.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6TransAm01 View Post
    If Mercedes had Ferrari’s car at the beginning of the season they would have won both championships this year. Period.

    That’s the difference in leadership.

    Binotto needs to get his own house in order before he tries to deflect to a team which went from nowhere to within striking distance of Second in the championship while his own has degraded precipitously the whole year.

    He is truly a complete failure.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Ferrari ran a further 15 HP in Mexico, which add up to those 'lost' after Sainz's breakup in Austria. However, with the introduction of the DT39, the F1-75 is no longer the same even if Binotto continues to deny.

    @Formu1a_uno
    The most important thing will be to get reliability back. You design your chassis according to the power output of your engine. Since we had to detune after Austria, the balance is totally messed up. Obviously, TD039 comes into play too.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucewayne View Post
    They were on the wrong tires from the beginning. Should have splitted strategy, aggressive undercut with one car. They dropped the ball, this should have been a Mercedes win. Should have started on softs and attacked Max at the start. Everyone here would have been furious if Ferrari made the same mistake yesterday. Rightfully.
    Merc didnít loose any place apart from start from Russell.

    With Max race pace & given straight line speed advantage of RB, there is no chance for Mercs. They are close but enough close to Mercs. Thatís the reason Mercs tried other way around if thereís any possibility.

    Just like Ferrari did it in Monza against Charles leclerc to counter RB.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Merc didn’t loose any place apart from start from Russell.

    With Max race pace & given straight line speed advantage of RB, there is no chance for Mercs. They are close but enough close to Mercs. That’s the reason Mercs tried other way around if there’s any possibility.

    Just like Ferrari did it in Monza against Charles leclerc to counter RB.
    They could have attacked Max with softs at the start. Plus they could have tried to undercut him. With Mediums, there is no way to undercut Max. Big mistake from Mercedes, as they have maybe the best tyre degradation. But if you start on Mediums, at least one of them should have gone long and switch to softs. Just like Ricciardo.

  19. #139
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    I hope next year, Ferrari doesn't do the same mistake they did in the 2019 car looking for outright straight line performance and neglecting the ability to be competitive everywhere.

    The magic is somewhere in between the floor and the suspension of the car under load and obviously the engine needs to be there of course. The TD039 messed up what made F1-75 so good. Remember when nobody could touch us in Barcelona S3.

    Binotto is learning the hard way that if you don't lobby and don't fight for your team like a gladiator, **** is never going to go your way.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTRSMAD View Post
    Binotto is learning the hard way that if you don't lobby and don't fight for your team like a gladiator, **** is never going to go your way.
    Binotto only knows how to be firm with Charles. He cuts off his wings, while he is a clown in front of the Fia, for the good of the sport

    Give the kid a TD

  21. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTRSMAD View Post
    I hope next year, Ferrari doesn't do the same mistake they did in the 2019 car looking for outright straight line performance and neglecting the ability to be competitive everywhere.

    The magic is somewhere in between the floor and the suspension of the car under load and obviously the engine needs to be there of course. The TD039 messed up what made F1-75 so good. Remember when nobody could touch us in Barcelona S3.

    Binotto is learning the hard way that if you don't lobby and don't fight for your team like a gladiator, **** is never going to go your way.
    It was blatantly obvious to everyone that Mercedes were lobbying the TD for their own advantage due to the failed concept of their car which couldn't handle the low ride height.

    Ferrari designed their car specifically for a low ride height according to the regulations, and yet accepted this, surely knowing it must hurt their performance and benefit Mercedes?

    I could accept Ferrari losing performance due to their own development failures, but it's hard to accept when most of it's due to Mercedes successful lobbying and politics, which compromised Ferrari's successful design concept and catered to those who failed, such as Mercedes.

  22. #142
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    How many years has this guy been saying that the team will learn from each disaster?
    With him, there is always something to anderstand or to learn
    Can we seriously think that guys like Rueda and Marcos make rookie mistakes?
    If anyone in the team learns anything, it’s surely Charles, learning that a dream can become a nightmare, thanks to a schoolmaster who waves his finger in the box and puts a red nose out
    I'm sad, but the scuderia is going nowhere, it became the needed decor for the other teams victories' show

    Give the kid a TD

  23. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
    It was blatantly obvious to everyone that Mercedes were lobbying the TD for their own advantage due to the failed concept of their car which couldn't handle the low ride height.

    Ferrari designed their car specifically for a low ride height according to the regulations, and yet accepted this, surely knowing it must hurt their performance and benefit Mercedes?

    I could accept Ferrari losing performance due to their own development failures, but it's hard to accept when most of it's due to Mercedes successful lobbying and politics, which compromised Ferrari's successful design concept and catered to those who failed, such as Mercedes.
    Ferrari was finding pace despite a huge porpoising
    Every car need to be the lower posible to find load
    It was obvious that given that Ferrari wasn't able to reduce porpoising, they would lost big with the TD

  24. #144
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    Even Luca di Montezemolo criticized Ferrari saying that strong politics for a team is also an important factor in order to win.

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    He knows it, for sure, knowing he didn’t see the Mercedes' cheat coming

  26. #146
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    Binotto's main job @ Ferrari was to get Mick in Carlos' seat. as far as how he's doing it may well be Charles that leaves on his own.

  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Binotto's main job @ Ferrari was to get Mick in Carlos' seat. as far as how he's doing it may well be Charles that leaves on his own.
    If Carlos wants to stay he's safe. Mick might end up at Ferrari as reserve driver but he's not ready for a race seat. AS for Charles nowhere to go. Lewis may stay into his 40s according to Toto. I think Charles likes to race in red.


    Forza Jules

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    I think you are 100% right on all counts. I wish it on Charles and Carlos to retire with Ferrari when the time comes. They are equal if not better than the other top drivers. They need the CAR!. Lewis into his 40 , making millions each year is for sure the way to go. He may even do a 8th WDC along the way. As far as for teams; it's Ferrari's turn to be the WCC . It's overdue! Binotto is no help at all. Every year he talked about next year.

  29. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    #AMus: reports that aside from being down on power, Ferrari got the wrong setup for Mexico and by the time they realized it, it was too late.

    Binotto: “We didn't realise it yet in FP1. The tyre test in FP2 certainly didn't help either. The last time we were this far off was in Spa. We now have to draw the right conclusions and find our old strength again in the last two races.."
    So what happened to that "state of the art" simulator? Binotto and co were bragging about it before this season and how it would play a paramount role of getting Scuderia back to top.

    I haven't seen any evidence of it being "effective" this season. Is this simulator another wasted development?

  30. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    So what happened to that "state of the art" simulator? Binotto and co were bragging about it before this season and how it would play a paramount role of getting Scuderia back to top.

    I haven't seen any evidence of it being "effective" this season. Is this simulator another wasted development?
    I think the simulator helps
    The thing might be that they didn’t properly anticipate overheating, so they detuned the engine (maybe a lot more than 15 hp)
    They lowered the load of the wings with the hope of losing a little less in vmax, then, since they were already sliding a lot, it became worse for the tires temps
    Add to this the rigid suspension to avoid porpoising, which means poor traction, poor grip and inability to climb the kerbs
    Add high ground clearance again and you change the beast into a truck
    Last edited by Gilles; 1st November 2022 at 19:33.

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