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Thread: 2023 USA (Miami) Grand Prix - Race Thread

  1. #151
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    As Horner stated where are ferrari and mercedes where have they gone.Put simply they have underdelivered in every aspect.Well said Mr Horner.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    listening to Charles yesterday he said something along the lines of "i asked for this setup".

    I'm guessing his plan was to get pole, and then try to hang on to a podium, similar to Baku. He probably had a shot at it too. And we'd be speaking a different tune around these parts.

    This is an odd track surface and not indicative of the true pace of the car. Reminds me a bit of France 2020?

    At the same rate, they need to improve the setup window of the car.

    Obviously, i'm ignoring that Red Bull is on another planet.
    Seems like ferrari are still facing with correlation issues. Unless you feel this update gonna work, you won’t bolt it on the car. I’m not sure how to call this uncertainty. Ferrari is clueless, tech dept is weak.

    They are still understanding the car, it’s been 5 races so far. Every race indicated RB/AM & Mercs are faster than us. Some how we got lucky in Baku (Charles tyre management). What other indicators are needed?

    From 2022, I always hear ferrari working on different set ups w.r.t tracks. If your car has larger range/window. You won’t find such issues.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by paolo lalli View Post
    As Horner stated where are ferrari and mercedes where have they gone.Put simply they have underdelivered in every aspect.Well said Mr Horner.
    he has to say that, in hopes that Liberty Media won't ban their rear end to even out the field.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Seems like ferrari are still facing with correlation issues. Unless you feel this update gonna work, you won’t bolt it on the car. I’m not sure how to call this uncertainty. Ferrari is clueless, tech dept is weak.

    They are still understanding the car, it’s been 5 races so far. Every race indicated RB/AM & Mercs are faster than us. Some how we got lucky in Baku (Charles tyre management). What other indicators are needed?

    From 2022, I always hear ferrari working on different set ups w.r.t tracks. If your car has larger range/window. You won’t find such issues.
    my understanding is that the new floor is one piece of a bigger package, and meant to work with that bigger package coming in Barcelona. It wasn't going to make our car slower, but bringing it to Miami was more for data collection than anything else.

  5. #155
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    Carlos kept Ferrari in the race! His points are adding up! Almost a podium!

  6. #156
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    So depressing seeing this, just going backwards.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    Did you see his lap times on the hards vs Perez lap times on the mediums from lap 20 to lap 42? It wasn't mediocre.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  8. #158
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    I was watching the documentaries on "how 2007 was won" in f1 TV pro and the way ferrari turned it around in the second half was just tremendous.. Team should take inspiration from that decade..

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by roddick_andy View Post
    I was watching the documentaries on "how 2007 was won" in f1 TV pro and the way ferrari turned it around in the second half was just tremendous.. Team should take inspiration from that decade..
    back then in 2007 the "real track testing" was still allowed, hence why Ferrari was able to have a good car as they were testing all sorts of things real time on track....

    eversince track testing got banned and teams were only allowed to use tools like wind tunnel adn CFD, Ferrari has been on the back foot....it is SAD, but also true

    red bull seems to have NO issues with using ONLY wind tunnel and CFD....it doesnt' seem to slow them down.....but then again they also have Newey.....enough said

  10. #160
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    Hmmm, i'm amused.....NOT!

    I don't get it with some of you on here. You know very well we have a problem, this was evident from the start of the season as most of you had your critical say about the cars/team and the likes.

    Now 5 races on and you still carrying on and dissing the team/car/ as well as having a dig at the the drivers from time to time, like it's going to make a change to the car and it's performance ?

    Why do you guys guys get yourself in such a knot and throw your toys out the cot ??, Face it, we're in sh@t stream, get over it. Nothing we can do this year. Maybe make some good developments on the car as the year progresses. Is it going to be enough to win the WDC ??.......I don't think so.

    It gets a bit long in the tooth when all i do is read the constant moaning after every GP.

    I get it, we're all allowed to express our feelings and we vent.................but Jeeesh, this is getting a bit to much now.

    Rather tell me what it is we can do and come up with some positive information that's constructive. Not bashing the team/car/driver and or it's previous TP, It is what it is......end of.

    * My vent for the day, thanks
    Drive it like you stole it!

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Did you see his lap times on the hards vs Perez lap times on the mediums from lap 20 to lap 42? It wasn't mediocre.
    did you see Hamilton make his way through the field who also used the same strategy? Hards->Medium was the better strategy yesterday by a long shot.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super M View Post
    Hmmm, i'm amused.....NOT!

    I don't get it with some of you on here. You know very well we have a problem, this was evident from the start of the season as most of you had your critical say about the cars/team and the likes.

    Now 5 races on and you still carrying on and dissing the team/car/ as well as having a dig at the the drivers from time to time, like it's going to make a change to the car and it's performance ?

    Why do you guys guys get yourself in such a knot and throw your toys out the cot ??, Face it, we're in sh@t stream, get over it. Nothing we can do this year. Maybe make some good developments on the car as the year progresses. Is it going to be enough to win the WDC ??.......I don't think so.

    It gets a bit long in the tooth when all i do is read the constant moaning after every GP.

    I get it, we're all allowed to express our feelings and we vent.................but Jeeesh, this is getting a bit to much now.

    Rather tell me what it is we can do and come up with some positive information that's constructive. Not bashing the team/car/driver and or it's previous TP, It is what it is......end of.

    * My vent for the day, thanks
    best post of thread

  13. #163
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    I am a little disappointed we couldn't beat the Merc here, i hope its down to the track.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    did you see Hamilton make his way through the field who also used the same strategy? Hards->Medium was the better strategy yesterday by a long shot.
    Ummm, Hamilton got beat by his team-mate. Max didn't get beat by his team-mate and won the race....that's the difference.

    Max(Hards) beat Checo Perez(Mediums) in lap times from lap 20 thru lap 42 and created over 18sec gap to pit for mediums to beat Checo.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    I am a little disappointed we couldn't beat the Merc here, i hope its down to the track.
    well, it seems we're better then them in quali whereas they are better then us in race pace

    one thing for sure we need to get to the bottom of our race pace vows that we have and try to fix it soon

    it is a long season, but frankly i gave up on us winning the WDC a few races ago

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Ummm, Hamilton got beat by his team-mate. Max didn't get beat by his team-mate and won the race....that's the difference.

    Max(Hards) beat Checo Perez(Mediums) in lap times from lap 20 thru lap 42 and created over 18sec gap to pit for mediums to beat Checo.
    on the better race tyre! Hamilton getting beat by his teammate ( after starting like 15th ) doesn't change the fact that it showed the pace of that strategy. And Hamilton is another one who the media conviced us all was a GOD. Just like Vettel before him.

    Last race Max needed a tow from his teammate to outqualify Perez, and was sliding around on the same tyres getting caught during the race. They're giving Max the better strategies, and Jos isn't complaining, that's how you know i'm right.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    Why did you use the "roll your eye's emoji" on my "+1" response to the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Max has proven his worth in subpar cars as well. His drive in the wets in Brazil was exceptional. Dry-Wet-One lap-Race lap, guy simply has no weakness.
    Why didn't you use the "roll your eye's emoji" on the response by tifosi1993? He is correct btw.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    on the better race tyre! Hamilton getting beat by his teammate ( after starting like 15th ) doesn't change the fact that it showed the pace of that strategy. And Hamilton is another one who the media conviced us all was a GOD. Just like Vettel before him.

    Last race Max needed a tow from his teammate to outqualify Perez, and was sliding around on the same tyres getting caught during the race. They're giving Max the better strategies, and Jos isn't complaining, that's how you know i'm right.
    Negative. Perez just admitted that Max is better than Perez. Want to read the article?
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    Mate, BIG update will come at Imola for Ferrari....as promised a while back, new modified sidepods, etc, etc...
    We’ll see if they gonna be upgrades or downgrades as we’ve seen time and time again from Ferrari

    So we’ll see if they gonna make it a stallion or a donkey...time will tell, but I ain’t gonna bet in nothing....lol
    I was gonna ask if you want to put $20 on it until I read your last line. LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Super M View Post
    Hmmm, i'm amused.....NOT!

    I don't get it with some of you on here. You know very well we have a problem, this was evident from the start of the season as most of you had your critical say about the cars/team and the likes.

    Now 5 races on and you still carrying on and dissing the team/car/ as well as having a dig at the the drivers from time to time, like it's going to make a change to the car and it's performance ?

    Why do you guys guys get yourself in such a knot and throw your toys out the cot ??, Face it, we're in sh@t stream, get over it. Nothing we can do this year. Maybe make some good developments on the car as the year progresses. Is it going to be enough to win the WDC ??.......I don't think so.

    It gets a bit long in the tooth when all i do is read the constant moaning after every GP.

    I get it, we're all allowed to express our feelings and we vent.................but Jeeesh, this is getting a bit to much now.

    Rather tell me what it is we can do and come up with some positive information that's constructive. Not bashing the team/car/driver and or it's previous TP, It is what it is......end of.

    * My vent for the day, thanks
    Because we are sick and tired of witnessing utter failure

  20. #170
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    What I would say to the entire Ferrari F1 organization if I had the chance.

    https://youtu.be/m1mELTwEHxg

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    well, it seems we're better then them in quali whereas they are better then us in race pace

    one thing for sure we need to get to the bottom of our race pace vows that we have and try to fix it soon

    it is a long season, but frankly i gave up on us winning the WDC a few races ago
    I don't think our current predicaments are solvable, or rather, it's extremely difficult to solve. Because right now, the SF23 is behaving exactly like the post-TD39 F1-75. Great one lap pace but average/below average race pace.

    The RB19 runs low but doesn't bounce, it has a terrifyingly efficient DRS system, strong in both aero and mechanical department and doesn't have any weaknesses. We all know RB19's strengths but we don't know how they are achieving it.

    And it seems Ferrari engineers are equally clueless like the rest of us.

  22. #172
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    AMuS

    Did Perez get the worse tactics?

    After crossing the finish line, conspiracy theorists confronted the team leadership with the accusation that Sergio Perez had gotten the worse tactics. The Mexican was put on the medium tires at the start, while Verstappen started with the hard rubber. What no one could have foreseen: A lot of rubber was washed off the track by the nightly showers. In addition, the asphalt on the Sunday of the race did not heat up as much as it did in practice.

    Both factors contributed to the fact that the drivers struggled with graining on the softer compounds at the beginning. Those who had mounted the yellow-marked Pirellis with full tanks in the first stint had to slow down noticeably in order to avoid the dreaded rubbing of the surface. Anyone who saved the mediums for the second stint could end up gasping more aggressively with the lighter car and the more rubberized track.

    Sergio Perez had no antidote to Verstappen that day.

    However, this development was not foreseeable, emphasized Red Bull team boss Christian Horner: "Our simulation said that medium-hard was the faster option. We expected that Max would only benefit from a late safety car.

    "If you look at the If you look at the starting tires of the cars in the front rows, we weren't the only ones with this assessment."

    Perez later complained that he wasted a lot of time, especially in the first stint, because he was driving in overdrive.

    "Maybe he could have taken more risks. Max was his only opponent," Horner mused. "It's easy to say afterwards, of course. But I think Max's pace was so strong that he would have won with any strategy today."

    Analysis of the stints on the hard tires proves Horner right. Verstappen somehow managed to plow through half the field and not overwhelm the tyres. At the end of his first stint, he was sometimes faster with old tires than Perez with much fresher soles of the same compound.





    Also

    Perez: Verstappen’s performance not reachable for me

    https://www.grandprix247.com/2023/05...chable-for-me/
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6TransAm01 View Post
    I was gonna ask if you want to put $20 on it until I read your last line. LOL



    Because we are sick and tired of witnessing utter failure
    no way mate, not even $5....i'm not that crazy; Ferrari keeps disippointing me time and time again.

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    no way mate, not even $5....i'm not that crazy; Ferrari keeps disippointing me time and time again.
    Same

  25. #175
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    Talk about a freak show, the driver presentations were cringeworthy and embarrassing for true fans and the drivers, we don't need all this hoo-ha from Liberty, although we all know who pulls the purse strings. The race was a shambles for us but we did take away 16pts so it wasn't as bad as Australia. The fact that Aston and Merc beat us is bad enough but could it have again been track-specific? It's so hard to be positive and 5 races in sach a short time has been a tough ask for teams and rivers, not to mention the excessive travelling. So let's see what Europe can throw us as we get back onto traditional F1 venues, it may not be pretty but at least it won't be full of US fakery. No offence intended.

  26. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    AMuS

    Did Perez get the worse tactics?

    After crossing the finish line, conspiracy theorists confronted the team leadership with the accusation that Sergio Perez had gotten the worse tactics. The Mexican was put on the medium tires at the start, while Verstappen started with the hard rubber. What no one could have foreseen: A lot of rubber was washed off the track by the nightly showers. In addition, the asphalt on the Sunday of the race did not heat up as much as it did in practice.

    Both factors contributed to the fact that the drivers struggled with graining on the softer compounds at the beginning. Those who had mounted the yellow-marked Pirellis with full tanks in the first stint had to slow down noticeably in order to avoid the dreaded rubbing of the surface. Anyone who saved the mediums for the second stint could end up gasping more aggressively with the lighter car and the more rubberized track.

    Sergio Perez had no antidote to Verstappen that day.

    However, this development was not foreseeable, emphasized Red Bull team boss Christian Horner: "Our simulation said that medium-hard was the faster option. We expected that Max would only benefit from a late safety car.

    "If you look at the If you look at the starting tires of the cars in the front rows, we weren't the only ones with this assessment."

    Perez later complained that he wasted a lot of time, especially in the first stint, because he was driving in overdrive.

    "Maybe he could have taken more risks. Max was his only opponent," Horner mused. "It's easy to say afterwards, of course. But I think Max's pace was so strong that he would have won with any strategy today."

    Analysis of the stints on the hard tires proves Horner right. Verstappen somehow managed to plow through half the field and not overwhelm the tyres. At the end of his first stint, he was sometimes faster with old tires than Perez with much fresher soles of the same compound.





    Also

    Perez: Verstappen’s performance not reachable for me

    https://www.grandprix247.com/2023/05...chable-for-me/

    yes, sometimes it is harder to start from pole, you have to go with a more defensive strategy.

    And congratulations, he beat a career midfielder.

  27. #177
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    Because we are sick and tired of witnessing utter failure[/QUOTE]

    Well then, You're gonna be disappointed for the rest of the year, Champ......
    Drive it like you stole it!

  28. #178
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    Remember the budget cap, ferrari are eating into the money with no results,reality could mean no improvement and what started as a lemon of a car will see out the season a lemon this is the reality.

  29. #179
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    So after 5 races, Ferrari has taken a step backwards-->2022 vs. 2023

    2022 Ferrari had 157pts in the constructors.

    2023 Ferrari has currently.............................drum roll please............................78pts.

    Ferrari has almost lost double the points year over year.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  30. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    So after 5 races, Ferrari has taken a step backwards-->2022 vs. 2023

    2022 Ferrari had 157pts in the constructors.

    2023 Ferrari has currently.............................drum roll please............................78pts.

    Ferrari has almost lost double the points year over year.
    Wasn't Leclerc's third consecutive pole time at Baku a second clear of his pole time a year before?

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