So what is doing a good job in relation to Alonso? Should Alonso only be 6 tenths ahead of Massa? or less, maybe more?
Is Alonso not the best driver on the grid for a reason? Who do you suggest Ferrari hires that can do a better job than Alonso?
It puzzles me that Alonso fans seem to think Massa should be challenging him, while the Massa fans seem quite happy to accept Felipe is not as good in general as Alonso.
If I was an Alonso only fan then I would be using the current situation as more proof as to why Alonso is the best, not using it to suggest Massa is so rubbish it flatters Alonso, and that a Perez could come in and make life hard for Alonso....but that is just me
Forza Ferrari
My Lord you are one patronising cookie
I don't give two hoots what the media says Alonso fan. If your pride is hurt then awwww . If all you care about is that Fernando is driving for a team that the media are disrespectful to then i'm sorry for your angst. Given that you never address any of the points I made I assume this is the real crux of your hissy fit.
"Luna faccia schiaffo testa"
Don't play dumb with me. I'm better at it than you are.
That's a contradiction. If you really support the team you simply have to support both drivers.
Yes, Fernando is my favourite driver too, but I will always support both drivers because we need both to give Ferrari the title.
Felipe is a great character, a very nice guy, but if he cannot get himself up to a Ferrari-driver level again then yes, he has to leave.
But as long as the team supports him, so will I.
You can run like the wind, but you'll never outrun the Prancing Horse
You're on
Forza Jules
Its not that I see Alonso as miles ahead of Massa. Or I think we should go out and get a driver that will push Alonso.. However I do think that Massa is under-performing and that he should be replaced with a driver that can either be groomed for the future or who can hit right above the mark that the f2012 makes if not as high as Alonso.
Massa just drops us further behind the WCC... and honestly maybe Ferrari should get a pay driver and make some money if nothing else. I don't know what the actual position of the F2012 is but it is either really really poor or Massa is severely embarrassing himself in it. I prefer to think the second...
we're number one
wow. you really can't say that massa is underperforming on this site before the mods rain down on you like a tonne of bricks.
I think everyone should be able to express their views on all aspects of the team.
Clearly, massa is not performing to the standard which ferrari expects/needs and i assume he is not happy with his performance in the last two years and especially oz. I hope he finds his form once more.
There is no question that massa is a nice guy and in that respect we should not be suprised if he finishes last or dosen't finish at all. This last comment is a joke, it is a laugh or cry situation i prefer the former.
If our ultimate goal is not the WCC for 2012 then might as well pack up and go home and show up in 2013. Until we figure out that we cannot get the car to complete for the 2012 WCC...we should be trying to get as many points as possible. And Massa doesn't seem to be pulling his weight around.
On the flip side if what you say is true then we might as well start concentrating on 2013.
we're number one
Greig has a point.Silverstone 2011 Felipe only missed 4th. because of Lewis Mctractor!!
1. Fernando Alonso Spain Ferrari-Ferrari 52 laps 1hr 28m 41.196s
2. Sebastian Vettel Germany Red Bull-Renault +00m 16.5s
3. Mark Webber Australia Red Bull-Renault +00m 16.9s
4. Lewis Hamilton Britain McLaren-Mercedes +00m 28.9s
5. Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari-Ferrari +00m 29.0s
6. Nico Rosberg Germany Mercedes-Mercedes +01m 00.6s
7. Sergio Perez Mexico Sauber-Ferrari +01m 05.6s
8. Nick Heidfeld Germany Renault-Renault +01m 15.5s
9. Michael Schumacher Germany Mercedes-Mercedes +01m 17.90s
10. Jaime Alguersuari Spain Toro Rosso-Ferrari +01m 19.10s
It's been one race, in 2008 Massa made mistakes in the opening 2 races, he went on to challenge for the title....
Forza Ferrari
Eddie was good, liked him, but there were other drivers better than him that would have been a more accurate reflection of Ferrari back then. Remember the carrots a certain Mika Salo gave him?
Rubens was great, just lacked that extra bit of a aggression. Then again if Schumey wasn't at Ferrari during the Brazilian's time, then Barrichello would have at least won a couple of WDC in the German's car.
And let's not forget that Byrne designed the cars around Schumacher's driving style.
Other than that, I agree, no shock that Alonso leads Massa. I'm just disappointed that Massa was sharper during the race, and closer to his team mate in 2010, but then again there are other factors like the tyres and etc.
There is no shock that Alonso out-performs the team’s number 2. What does come as a shock is the manner in which the race slips from Massa’s grasp so regularly. I have not expected him to win races for the last two years but he should be in the mix, scoring points and interrupting the race strategies of the other teams.
He is not fulfilling the role of a number 2, a very important role at Ferrari throughout history.
I have one question to those who have so valiantly come to the defence of Massa: Are you happy with Massa’s performance in the last 2 years?
I do not support getting rid of him now that would be ridiculous and would not benefit the team in the short term.
The Massa era is sadly coming to an end, I hope it is dignified. I also hope he goes with a smile on his face and a hat full of championship points, but I will not hold my breath on the latter.
Alonso lost loads of time after the SC compared to Vettel who he was racing pretty well with to that point, does that not suggest something in the car as the fuel load goes down it becomes a lot harder to maintain a decent pace?
Massa himself admits his performances are not what he wants, he was pretty unlucky last year though and terrible pitstops, strategy and Lewis did not help him get much breaks. Ferrari and Massa know it's make or break year and have clearly stated it, everyone knows that, so I expect Ferrari will give him the season, calls to sack him now are just ridiculous, I don't see why any Ferrari fan should take any pleasure from one of our drivers not having a good time, as some on here seem to do.
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Another thing that amused me was when Massa went off in practice it was cause he sucked, when Alonso done it in Qual it was cause the car sucked....
Forza Ferrari
This is slightly off topic but it is nice to talk about the car, there is clearly something not right with the horse at the moment and this is extenuated by low fuel load. I read a post that suggested this was due to something being stuck in the sidepod/diffuser, but in light of qualifying this seems an unlikely cause.
To return back to topic Massa had a brilliant start but went backwards very early (before the car entered the low fuel stage that hurt Alonso) so I do not think this characteristic explains Massa’s performance.
The problem is this race is not a one off, even if Massa had mechanical issues this does not explain the last two seasons.
I certainly do not take any pleasure in the situation in fact the opposite.
Bertie ''To return back to topic Massa had a brilliant start but went backwards very early (before the car entered the low fuel stage that hurt Alonso) so I do not think this characteristic explains Massa’s performance.''
Massa was damaged the most because he did not have new tyres like Alonso had!!And we all know Felipe struggles more in that situation.
So where is the logic in getting a noobie driver in that does not know Ferrari, does not know the "awkward" car (see Fisichella 2009 for details) and is immediately put under pressure to use it to get a WCC???
Are you seriously saying that having a car that cannot currently compete for race wins is the basis for aiming for a WCC?
Come on! We need to fix the car first so that the best driver on the grid can win in it!
Scapegoating Massa has nothing to do with that AT THE MOMENT.
As people keep on saying - if Fernando is qualifying on pole and winning in it and Massa is coming 10th - THEN and only then is this debate worth anything to Ferrari.
It's common sense really.
"Luna faccia schiaffo testa"
Yeah good point, he probably would have won in Germany 2010 off course I don't think Massa performed badly in 2010 in any case, he beat Alonso a good few times.
And if you look at the races when Alonso won, then Felipe was 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 8th, 3rd, which seems to be ok to me considering Alonso is better.
Forza Ferrari
Bahrain 2010: 1. Alonso 2. Massa
Hockenheim 2010: 1. Alonso 2. Massa
Monza 2010: 1. Alonso 3. Massa
Korea 2010: 1. Alonso 3. Massa
I think Massa proved your point. Unfortunately his car broke down in Singapore Q1. In fact Alonso was only capable of winning when the car was good enough to get Massa on the podium. A good car is what we need right now.
Last edited by F2008; 19th March 2012 at 22:52.
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