sniper
I hope they do. I care not if it tarnishes the image of F1. the image of F1 has been crap for a while. Trying to engineer a win like this is clear fraud.Originally Posted by tifosi1993
I dont care if Merc wins or not but I hope there is some reckoning for this sport.
we're number one
\m/HEAVY METAL\m/
^This
\m/HEAVY METAL\m/
Full Member
Full Member
It's not an easy job being a referee of live sport. In some sport, like rugby, they can stop play and review the situation but not that straight forward in F1. You have to make a decision on the spot. To be fair to Michael Masi, he had an immediate incident on track to deal with and get the track clear. At the same time he has Toto and Christian bending his ear. I wonder if he was even aware that Max pitted for new tyres with everything that was going on. Who knows.. This can be discussed forever. The only thing I can take from it is that the FIA wanted the fight to end with a race and not in their office but that's exactly where it ended. I imagine there will be a complete overhaul of how the stewards office operate in future. The first thing to do is to stop team bosses being able to try and manipulate the race director during the race
Full Member
Hill casts doubt over Mercedes' appeal plans: I don't see it going anywhere
Damon Hill does not expect Mercedes to make much progress after confirming their intention to appeal the stewards' verdict in Abu Dhabi.
Damon Hill doubts that Mercedes will "get anywhere" should they proceed with their plans to appeal against the stewards' verdict in Abu Dhabi.
Mercedes lodged two separate protests, one against Max Verstappen and the other against the race result - relating to unlapped cars and the procedures under the Safety Car.
Hamilton had controlled the majority of Sunday's race after passing Verstappen at the start, but the encounter was turned on its head in the closing laps by a Safety Car period to cover Nicholas Latifi's crash.
Verstappen took the opportunity to pit for new Soft tyres, while Hamilton stayed out on old Hards, amid uncertainty as to whether the race would restart.
As the laps went by, several lapped cars that sat between the pair were initially told to hold position, only to be released by Race Director Michael Masi moments before the Safety Car peeled back in with a lap to go.
Verstappen went on to steal the win and, with it, the world title.
"I don't see how anything's gonna change"
Both of Mercedes' post-race protests were ultimately dismissed by the stewards, with Red Bull chiefs Helmut Marko and Christian Horner criticising the team's actions and declaring that the correct decision had been made.
However, Mercedes have subsequently confirmed their intention to appeal, and have 96 hours (after the race finish) to decide whether to proceed.
Giving his thoughts on the situation in an interview with Sky Sports, 1996 World Champion Hill said: "I don't see how anything's gonna change.
"I think the stewards have said that they are entitled to override some of the other regulations that Mercedes believed were watertight.
"I think when you read those, the code, you can see that the [Race Director] is entitled to do what is necessary to get the race underway, so I just don't see it getting anywhere."
Hill then took a moment to praise Verstappen and Red Bull for sealing the Drivers' crown.
"I think they knew they had to fight with everything they had and it turned out in their favour," he commented.
"You have to say we're looking at an extremely brilliant racing driver who is not there to play games - he's there to win and he's won."
https://racingnews365.com/hill-casts...going-anywhere
It's not how start but how you finish.
Full Member
Personally I will never want to see Ferrari trying to win our first title in more than a decade by dragging the sport to court.If Ferrari had been in Mercedes' position, do you guys think Binotto would have gone to court? I think he would've let it go, 'for the good of the sport'
Stewards decision are not always perfect, but this is not how we should win a title. Not sure what Merc is trying to achieve here. I doubt this is what Lewis would want too.
Full Member
So Masi did it on purpose?
Jean Todt - LEGEND!
With the season over with, and a title changing turn of fortunes where Lewis had the title "stolen" from him on the last lap I figured it would be best to do a full breakdown on Hamilton Vs Verstappen, who lost most points to freak accidents/luck out of their control.
Breakdown:
Italy - Hamilton runs into the wall and was set to come out dead last, also needing heavy repairs and would not have scored any points - before Bottas instantly saved his race by colliding with Russell causing a red flag resulting in free repairs and no more positions lost for Lewis.
Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +19 (HAM 19, VER 0)
--
Baku - Verstappen set to win the race and take 25 points vs Hamiltons 15 before his tire blow out.
Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +10 (HAM 29, VER 0)
-
Silverstone - Max leading the race set to bag 25 vs 18 point to Lewis, before Lewis is deemed guilty of causing a collision and "punished" by stewards in a way that did not affect his race.
25 points for Verstappen and 18 for Hamilton became 0 for Verstappen and 25 for Hamilton who could only finish the race because of a red flag he himself caused and gave him free repairs.
Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +61 (HAM 61, VER 0)
-
Hungary - Hamilton probable to win and take 25 vs 18 Vs Verstappen before Bottas causes a crash that takes out both Red Bulls.
Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +18 (HAM 79, VER 0)
-
Monza - Hamilton set to score more points than Max before the crash Max was deemed guilty of causing. HAM 12 - VER 10)
Points gained by Verstappen in the championship: +2 (HAM 79, VER 2)
-
Russia - Verstappen set to finish 7th and Hamilton 2nd before the rain comes in, 18 points for Hamilton and 6 for Verstappen became HAM 25, VER 18.
Points gained by Verstappen in the championship: +5 (HAM 79, VER 7)
-
Abu Dhabi - Hamilton set to win easily before Masi turnes the tables completely at the last lap.
Points gained by Verstappen in the championship: +14 (HAM 79, VER 21)
Total summary of points gained by luck/factors out of control: Points gained by Lews 79 Vs Points gained for Verstappen 21.
To not complicate things further I did not include any stuff like the ramifications that happened to Red Bulls engines after the Silverstone accident which you could argue makes the points Max made up by luck in Russia not relevant because the only reason he was in a position to lose points that race was because of the Silverstone crash Lewis caused.
In the end Hamilton gained 58 points in the championship compared to Verstappen.
Without luck getting involved the final championship standings would have ended
Max Verstappen 374.5 (-21)
Lewis Hamilton 308.5 (-79)
Lastly, if only the Silverstone crash/lottery had ended on the opposite with Lewis retiring and Max finishing (with all the other luck still counted for) the standings would have finished.
Max Verstappen 420.5 (+25)
Lewis Hamilton 362.5 (-25)
In summary: The best driver won the title without doubt, only reason Hamilton was still in contention in Abu Dhabi was incredible luck, so what happened at the end was poetic justice! Lewis winning the title would have been robbery and unworthy.
Last edited by Lesky; 13th December 2021 at 16:05.
"Formula 1 is not a sport anymore - Fernando Alonso
Full Member
\m/HEAVY METAL\m/
I can onlyto this!
Full Member
If Lewis won because the FIA didn't allow the lapped cars to go by, or even worse - ending the race under a SC the fans would rightfully say robbed for MV. I'm not sure if the media would be have a 20 news paper outlets writing "Max was ROBBED" on their front page though.Could only imagine if the ending was reversed and it was Lewis who got the win, those defending it so stoutly today would be throwing out the tv and never watching F1 again
Massi made a complete mess of it. Letting lapped cars unlap themselves is not a rule its up to the race director, but we have never seen just a select few cars being allowed to unlap themselves.
Masi did make a mess of it, the moment he announced to not allow lapped cars go by it looked like a farce and gift to secure Lewis' title. When he changed his mind, naturally it will look like the opposite.
\m/HEAVY METAL\m/
Attachment 7895
Hopefully very soon same picture posing but with two trophy's
Full Member
+1
Though hopefully with a better livery too.
Full Member
The miracle happened car crash ,yellow flags red bull pit last roll of the dice Max with new soft tyres mercedes stay out lewis on worn hands.Masi race director makes the desicion let's race which under the rules the race director can adjust rules accordingly sets up grand stand final finish max has one lap to nail it.lewis was a sitting duck red bull win simple as that a strategy that paid big time congrats to Max.Besides a boring finish under safety car would not be just for the final race and championship decider Mr Micheal massive race director showed totto wolf just how big his balls really are and yes they are huge.
\m/HEAVY METAL\m/
Absolutely agree!
Salut Gilles
Making up a new rule to let some unlap is the main issue....
Forza Ferrari
Full Member
Well according to the rules, apparently article 48.13 supersedes 48.12 which I guess gives Masi the right to do it. This is one of the things discussed during the meeting with the Stewards.
There is an argument that Masi didn't follow typical procedure in the first few laps of the SC, but it was his discretion and does not technically break any rules. His decision to change his mind and only allow 5 cars to unlap definitely goes against article 48.12, though legally who knows based on the word "Any", but as I said, supposedly article 48.13 gives him the right to overrule 48.12.
the FIA shot themselves in both feet and chose to put a bandage on only one foot.
It's just comical how so many, including the news, are saying Lewis was robbed of the world championship because he had to actually race for the win. They conveniently forget about the other 22 races and scenarios that went in his favor, or went against Max, or how the FIA made decisions that significantly favored Mercedes (or hurt RBR, depends how u look at it).
The SC robbed Lewis of an easy race win, but Verstappen deserved the WDC, but I get the uproar and I don't blame the Lewis fans for being upset.
Full Member
I don't think I like George Russell anymore. I hope Lewis thrashes him next year.
Forza Ferrari
"And regardless of what else you put on, wear love. It's your basic, all-purpose garment. Never be without it."
Avanti Fer, Avanti !
I get it but understand his position here. He is only 23, making his move to the mighty Mercedes, partnering a certain 7 times WDC, under dictatorships of Toto, he is supposed to speak for them, he has not made his position strong enough to voice out his own opinions or at best diplomatically answer.
Full Member
I'm ashamed to be English right now.
The media are in a frenzy and accusations of cheating and even yes racism are wild, and several papers (Mirror, Mail) have even setup an online petition to remove the title from Max and give it to Lewis.
I really despise this flag sha***ng crap where the british are the best and no one else should win.
I do agree Masi's decisions have been strange most of the season but you can't blame Max for that, he did nothing wrong. it's odd now they complain, they thought it was fine when the decisions went against RBR/Max. Damn hypocrites!
Full Member
Sour grapes for the British media, I would say.
Agreed with the point made.
Full Member
indeed, already started playing the butler role... hope I'm wrong, but it does seem blatantly obvious.
Full Member
They did the same thing when Italy won the Euro Cup. Bunch of sore losers if you ask me, pretty embarrassing as well. How quickly everyone including the British Media and Hamilton fans forget how much the FIA and stewards have helped Hamilton over the last 7-8 years. Should the rest of the F1 teams petition to have all of Ham's 6 titles with Mercedes removed because of the blatant bias, favoritism and cheating over the years? Grow up and move on...
~FORZA FERRARI~
Banned
Called it. The swansong of the loser it to call everything racist rather than take responsibility for personal failure.
That is the excuse du jour for the leftist media. Nothing new here. The lying media is no reason to be ashamed of your country. I mean 1776 may be, but not this. ;) LOL
Full Member
He could have kept quiet. The race was barely over and he was already tweeting.I get it but understand his position here. He is only 23, making his move to the mighty Mercedes, partnering a certain 7 times WDC, under dictatorships of Toto
Forza Ferrari
"And regardless of what else you put on, wear love. It's your basic, all-purpose garment. Never be without it."
Full Member
Not all of us Brits are HAM fans otherwise we wouldn't (shouldn't) be on this site. The UK media have been unbearable and will support any aspect of HAM's triumphs in whatever his latest achievement or crusade is, and after all, he is British, so hardly unexpected by the media. I admit to having been thrilled when Italy beat England in the Euros, and will be ecstatic if Ferrari can mount a challenge in 2022. I will probably be shot for those comments!
Full Member
The British media loves to be outraged about everything. Hence, no surprise at the Hamilton backlash. The leftist media use any situation to cry racism. The petition was most likely started by a socialist Croc-wearing, latte with soy milk drinker, Insulate Britain activist with a man bun who is offended by everything. Kimi had some strange fans during his days at Mclaren but Hamilton's fans are self entitled weirdos.
Full Member
Well done.
1 thing though about Silverstone, Hamiltons pace was crazy on hard tyres I 5hink hecwould have won anyway but even if amax would have won I see that as Max 25 more points Lewis 7 less which is 32 point swing not 61.
Full Member
Thanks for putting this post together! I hadn't had the chance to sit back and think about it myself.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks