Thread: 2019 Barcelona testing(Circuit de Catalunya)

  1. #721
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Belgrade, Serbia
    Posts
    15,759
    I really don't know why do people bother comparing and calculating who is faster and by what margin?! This is just testing. Teams does not even need to use legal fuel or legal parts?!

  2. #722
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by PURE PASSION View Post
    The same goes when you see s "better " stint from Merc
    Exactly!

  3. #723
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    3,195
    The Mercedes is the only car that hasn't got a high rake and it think Mercedes are scratching their heads now and might realise they are wrong .
    Hero's come and go, but legends never die!

  4. #724
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    S.A
    Posts
    10,231
    BREAKING: A fire has occurred in the McLaren garage in Barcelona. Three team members have been treated and released from the medical centre #F1
    https://racer.com/2019/02/22/three-m...ming-day-fire/
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  5. #725
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    32,234
    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    jeeeeeeezzzuuusss. Nowhere in the article does it stipulate ambient temp and track temp. You'd expect that from a tire manufacturer.

    These temps were in cold conditions.

    Come Melbourne, the temps will be plus 30 degrees celsius compared to these testing temps......but what do I know.
    They are only talking about this test nothing more.
    Forza Ferrari

  6. #726
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    norCal
    Posts
    9,590
    I think we are sandbagging.

    *ducks multiple thrown objects*

    -Lou(is)
    Forza
    Ferrari 16/15

    Totus Tuus


  7. #727
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    1,434
    Wings

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

  8. #728
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    S.A
    Posts
    10,231
    Quote Originally Posted by WRX202 View Post
    Wingshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f7187672a7.jpg

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
    Ferrari's FW looks like an elite mustache design



    ---


    Quote Originally Posted by Tifoso View Post
    I think we are sandbagging.

    *ducks multiple thrown objects*
    lol
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  9. #729
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    towradgi beach
    Posts
    2,148
    So Lewis has started the games quoted as saying that he wants to inflict pain on seb and max what about the butler bottas? Sounds like Lewis is a little jumpy if the merc is behind then hang on and give Lewis the tissues he will cry you a river cheap pot shot from the hamster

  10. #730
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    1,434
    Quote Originally Posted by paolo lalli View Post
    So Lewis has started the games quoted as saying that he wants to inflict pain on seb and max what about the butler bottas? Sounds like Lewis is a little jumpy if the merc is behind then hang on and give Lewis the tissues he will cry you a river cheap pot shot from the hamster
    We all know that the only thing quicker than his Mercedes is his tongue but his brain is like mid race refuelling (non existent) so no one gives a crap to what he says except the British media.

    Anyone else think that Bottas looks like he just successfully completed the MGP Brainwashing program V.2019? The glare in his eyes when he speaks you could tell he doesn't even believe himself let alone others especially when he says he has to do his own thing and prove nothing to no one.

  11. #731
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    S.A
    Posts
    10,231
    Quote Originally Posted by WRX202 View Post
    We all know that the only thing quicker than his Mercedes is his tongue but his brain is like mid race refuelling (non existent) so no one gives a crap to what he says except the British media.

    Anyone else think that Bottas looks like he just successfully completed the MGP Brainwashing program V.2019? The glare in his eyes when he speaks you could tell he doesn't even believe himself let alone others especially when he says he has to do his own thing and prove nothing to no one.
    no doubt Ham got a gunner that will not hold back from smashing into his rivals to help as seen last year, merc also has russell to use the way ocon was used, so hams pretty confidant
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  12. #732
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    475
    Quote Originally Posted by mwk360 View Post
    no doubt Ham got a gunner that will not hold back from smashing into his rivals to help as seen last year, merc also has russell to use the way ocon was used, so hams pretty confidant
    I am just hoping this is the year that Crashstappen get involved with Hamster just like he did last year with Seb. I mean, come one, its about time, it has to come back a full circle. Verstappen can easily get in Hamiltons head. He has even thicker skin than Hamilton. So just waiting for them to start their love relationship on track of getting together, light taps, shoves from behind, getting on top, getting on to the side, you know.

  13. #733
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    S.A
    Posts
    10,231
    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    I am just hoping this is the year that Crashstappen get involved with Hamster just like he did last year with Seb. I mean, come one, its about time, it has to come back a full circle. Verstappen can easily get in Hamiltons head. He has even thicker skin than Hamilton. So just waiting for them to start their love relationship on track of getting together, light taps, shoves from behind, getting on top, getting on to the side, you know.



    merc are super lucky they avoid any collisions and even when they make content they come out without a scratch hopefully that changes this year especially having RB ruin there races like they always do to us
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  14. #734
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    S.A
    Posts
    10,231
    Both our boys will get a session everyday, in next weeks test, kinda what merc has been doing


    -----

    For Test Week 2, there will also be new parts on the Ferrari but as Binotto said rather "small things"

    Binotto: "The development race will be even more demanding this year."
    Binotto confirms ferrari will bring new parts but will minor compared to what mercedes and redbull are bringing. Hopefully we dont need the big changes and improvements that merc and rb have planned
    Last edited by mwk360; 23rd February 2019 at 14:56.
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  15. #735
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    hull
    Posts
    911
    Quote Originally Posted by paolo lalli View Post
    So Lewis has started the games quoted as saying that he wants to inflict pain on seb and max what about the butler bottas? Sounds like Lewis is a little jumpy if the merc is behind then hang on and give Lewis the tissues he will cry you a river cheap pot shot from the hamster
    Where has he stated that, might be a idea to link to the interview

  16. #736
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Ferrari Car
    Posts
    1,841
    Quote Originally Posted by evo_spook View Post
    Where has he stated that, might be a idea to link to the interview

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...JucMmuULyWwctf


    Ferrari looks great, this may be the year.

  17. #737
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    1,434
    Quote Originally Posted by mwk360 View Post



    merc are super lucky they avoid any collisions and even when they make content they come out without a scratch hopefully that changes this year especially having RB ruin there races like they always do to us
    It's because when some one gets close to the golden boy the rule book changes.

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

  18. #738
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    5,586
    As far as Lewis is concerned; he will have another rocket to drive and a totally Rubenized team mate; and a Todt Ross with different names calling the shots for him. A tough act to follow. Lets hope Mission Willow will at least equal the cars; and the drivers look good. Pole position and who's on first is going to be crucial; more so than ever. Again I hope no one holds Charles back!!

  19. #739
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Godric's Hollow
    Posts
    9,467
    Quote Originally Posted by mwk360 View Post
    Both our boys will get a session everyday, in next weeks test, kinda what merc has been doing


    -----



    Binotto confirms ferrari will bring new parts but will minor compared to what mercedes and redbull are bringing. Hopefully we dont need the big changes and improvements that merc and rb have planned
    I don't expect Binotto to announce Ferrari's testing strategy to the media. And don't know how you reached the conclusion that Ferrari's new parts/upgrades will be minor compared to Mercedes/Red Bull. "Small things" can mean some pretty major upgrades.

    Apart from Williams and Racing point, I don't expect any other team will bring anything drastically different in this week's test. Mercedes already said their current car spec is very close to what they will have in Melbourne.

  20. #740
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Godric's Hollow
    Posts
    9,467
    Quote Originally Posted by SilverSpeed View Post
    The Mercedes is the only car that hasn't got a high rake and it think Mercedes are scratching their heads now and might realise they are wrong .
    Mercedes won the last 10 championships with their low rake concept, I don't think "rake" is the problem here.

  21. #741
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Corpus Christi Tx
    Posts
    11,047
    From some spy photo's, I know MB has been playing around with different suspension set-ups in the front....having to do more with the push-rod; some photo's have been published here. This "toying" with the front suspension is in correlation with the rear as well with their rear wheel steering.....something they adopted in the latter half of the 2018 season. (Note: these are excerpts from said article relating to the suspension). This is also in conjunction with "variable" rake at a given speed or corner.

    Eventually, they will figure it out being they're MB.



    How many Mercedes experiments: the W10 simulates the rear steering wheels

    The silver arrow in the first test session in Barcelona tried the basic set-up: the front was chosen for the push rod strut, while behind it worked on four steering wheels and the height from the ground. The real Mercedes will appear next week.

    The second analysis concerns the front suspension: the W10 has two configurations. The more traditional one was preferred with the external bracket of the push rod strut that is added to the pivot with which the upper triangle is not only raised, but also offset from the lower one.

    https://cdn-7.motorsport.com/images/...0-detail-1.jpg


    Mercedes engineers have worked hard to gather data on the two front suspension options, while behind they have focused on two other very important aspects: steering wheel simulation and ground clearance. . According to the rumors of the paddock there were a couple of ZF technicians to support the engineers of Brackley to find the right set-up of the "steering".

    Let's be clear from the start: it's all legal, because the engineers of James Allison would work on the gray part of the regulation, namely on all brake-by-wire tolerances, engine maps, differential management and resilience of the suspensions. The (difficult) combination of all these elements would give an important result that would facilitate the entry of the arrow in the curve of silver, allowing a greater speed in cornering. The image we posted above is rather eloquent about the behavior of the rear tires at the entrance to the chicane in Barcelona.

    If we add to all this that on the W10 were made of ground clearance tests with the car that has also traveled with the bottom parallel to the asphalt and then get to the usual value of Rake (1.2 °), it is easy to see how the silver arrow we shot in Catalunya was a sort of laboratory car.

    In these days both in Breckley and in Brixworth will be analyzed all the data collected and from Tuesday, again in Spain, we will see a W10 in a more projected capacity at the Australian GP ...

    https://translate.google.com/transla...4/&prev=search
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  22. #742
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    475
    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Mercedes won the last 10 championships with their low rake concept, I don't think "rake" is the problem here.
    I think this is the problem they have. They used to use a very complicated front wing, with the very complicated bargeboards and the bits in between the front wheels to move the air to the outside of the car, to both sides. They use that to seal the floor, with minimal air going to the under side of the car, thats how they generated downforce, accelerating the minimal air thats going under the car to create downforce. Thats how they can run the low rake, it helps to seal the floor too. But now, with the front wing very simple, and less height in bargeboards, its harder for them to get the air to feed to the outside and more air is going through the car, so they create less downforce from the floor. They thought, by slimming down the sidepods, they can get more air to pass over on top of the diffuser, so even with more air going under the car, by having even more air going over the diffuser, they can make the diffuser work. But I think its not working. Plus, their top section of the car is bulky, so they have to run more wing to create the same downforce as the Ferrari does with less wing, and it also create flow separation behind the wing, which makes downforce produced by the diffuser even less.

  23. #743
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    475
    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    From some spy photo's, I know MB has been playing around with different suspension set-ups in the front....having to do more with the push-rod; some photo's have been published here. This "toying" with the front suspension is in correlation with the rear as well with their rear wheel steering.....something they adopted in the latter half of the 2018 season. (Note: these are excerpts from said article relating to the suspension). This is also in conjunction with "variable" rake at a given speed or corner.

    Eventually, they will figure it out being they're MB.



    How many Mercedes experiments: the W10 simulates the rear steering wheels

    The silver arrow in the first test session in Barcelona tried the basic set-up: the front was chosen for the push rod strut, while behind it worked on four steering wheels and the height from the ground. The real Mercedes will appear next week.

    The second analysis concerns the front suspension: the W10 has two configurations. The more traditional one was preferred with the external bracket of the push rod strut that is added to the pivot with which the upper triangle is not only raised, but also offset from the lower one.

    https://cdn-7.motorsport.com/images/...0-detail-1.jpg


    Mercedes engineers have worked hard to gather data on the two front suspension options, while behind they have focused on two other very important aspects: steering wheel simulation and ground clearance. . According to the rumors of the paddock there were a couple of ZF technicians to support the engineers of Brackley to find the right set-up of the "steering".

    Let's be clear from the start: it's all legal, because the engineers of James Allison would work on the gray part of the regulation, namely on all brake-by-wire tolerances, engine maps, differential management and resilience of the suspensions. The (difficult) combination of all these elements would give an important result that would facilitate the entry of the arrow in the curve of silver, allowing a greater speed in cornering. The image we posted above is rather eloquent about the behavior of the rear tires at the entrance to the chicane in Barcelona.

    If we add to all this that on the W10 were made of ground clearance tests with the car that has also traveled with the bottom parallel to the asphalt and then get to the usual value of Rake (1.2 °), it is easy to see how the silver arrow we shot in Catalunya was a sort of laboratory car.

    In these days both in Breckley and in Brixworth will be analyzed all the data collected and from Tuesday, again in Spain, we will see a W10 in a more projected capacity at the Australian GP ...

    https://translate.google.com/transla...4/&prev=search
    I was talking about this last year testing, they tried this last year, because I can tell the car was turning very different to others, the car would turn in its own axis, like 4 wheels steering. Some people here was saying it was not true and it was just suspension. But it is not suspension, you can use brake by wire to induce jaw in to the car. Almost like traction control. You can use differential to set open and lock depending on steering angle, plus, using engine maps to feed power to the outside wheels through open differential and with brake by wire applying very fine braking on the rear inner wheel, within the tolerances.
    Its very easy to do. I still have figure out how they will do the variable rake, but it is possible with steering wheel angle, and the amount of force that is put on the outside wheel and maybe use that pressure to feed inside wheel dampers to force it down to keep the car level. So, if the force is higher, the rake is higher, but when the force is lower, the rake is lower?? hmmm. I dont know how much time it will give them. Maybe close to or over .5??? HMMMMMM!!!

  24. #744
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    S.A
    Posts
    10,231
    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    I was talking about this last year testing, they tried this last year, because I can tell the car was turning very different to others, the car would turn in its own axis, like 4 wheels steering. Some people here was saying it was not true and it was just suspension. But it is not suspension, you can use brake by wire to induce jaw in to the car. Almost like traction control. You can use differential to set open and lock depending on steering angle, plus, using engine maps to feed power to the outside wheels through open differential and with brake by wire applying very fine braking on the rear inner wheel, within the tolerances.
    Its very easy to do. I still have figure out how they will do the variable rake, but it is possible with steering wheel angle, and the amount of force that is put on the outside wheel and maybe use that pressure to feed inside wheel dampers to force it down to keep the car level. So, if the force is higher, the rake is higher, but when the force is lower, the rake is lower?? hmmm. I dont know how much time it will give them. Maybe close to or over .5??? HMMMMMM!!!
    thats a giant increase in f1 it could be even more plus might be kinder to tyres, they always go the extra step as it is
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  25. #745
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Corpus Christi Tx
    Posts
    11,047
    [AutoBild]

    For Test Week 2, there will also be new parts on the Ferrari but as Binotto said rather "small things"

    Binotto: "The development race will be even more demanding this year."


    Almost all teams agree that they have already reached the previous year's downforce levels. Maybe not 2018 Abu Dhabi levels but definitely where they were 12 months ago.

    Ferrari team boss Mattia Binotto believes: "The new Pirelli tyres have gotten better."


    Newey: "You have to choose between the two wing concepts. There is no interim solution. We could change over to the Ferrari wing without major modifications, if necessary. Mercedes would have more problems there. You would have to change basic things about the car."


    Mercedes recognize that before the first race modifications can be made in the car but they are aware that if they do so, they will have to change the entire aerodynamic design.
    Mercedes engineers admitted that they are currently checking the Ferrari front wing concept in their simulations:

    "It would be negligent if we did not do it. Nevertheless, we must not panic now and have to find out if we can continue with our way/concept."

    Of course, the big aero upgrade for the 2nd week of testing still sticks to their old values and concept.


    Red Bull does not think they have to copy Ferrari.

    Horner: "Our simulations showed in comparison that we are better positioned with our wing type."

    Helmut Marko: "We are still behind Ferrari, but their lap times don't worry us."

    That Red Bull uses a similar front wing shouldn't calm Mercedes down. The rest of the RB15 is completely different than the Mercedes. High-rake with a nostril that relieves the central part of the front wing.

    Red Bull feels like in paradise with Honda. More power than Renault, more electric power on the straights.

    Horner: "We had four finished engines in the factory one week before the testing. That never happened in the last twelve years."

    Shots fired at Renault???



    The biggest surprise was Alfa Romeo. Nobody drives such an extreme front wing. It's the Ferrari concept, just more extreme. Although Simone Resta is coming from Maranello, the SF90 was not the inspiration.

    Zehnder: "We focused on this concept right from the start."

    Zehnder (Alfa Romeo): "Our engineers were really surprised when they saw the classic front wings at Mercedes and Red Bull. We believed in a fake (front wings) when we saw the presentation cars of them."

    Alfa Romeo team principal Vasseur: "If you are alone with a few things, you either did something right, or you are completely wrong. We saw on the first day of testing that the wind tunnel had given us the right numbers."



    Regarding Toro Rosso having a similar front wing concept like Ferrari and not like Red Bull

    Helmut Marko: "Our cars (Red Bull + Toro Rosso) have more in common than before, but they have to do their aerodynamics themselves."


    Mercedes will have their big aero update in Test 2 and maybe that will fix everything for them and they are back ahead. Like Mattia Binotto said, never underestimate these guys.

    If in Test 2, they are not competitive or near Ferrari and Red Bull again, the theory that Mercedes bet on the wrong concept gets a bit more clear and recovering from that would be a difficult task at the very least. But for now, nothing is certain.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  26. #746
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by jragona View Post
    Gary Anderson

    "The Ferrari able to put half a tyre on the inside kerb at Campsa (T9) but it’s very stable. Others are having to give it a wide berth."

    I don't recognise this Gary Anderson! Ferrari must be doing well!
    Lewis is coming

  27. #747
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Corpus Christi Tx
    Posts
    11,047
    Ferrari adopts the Mercedes philosophy for the second week of testing. One will do it in the morning and the other in the afternoon. Doing 169 laps in one day for one driver really puts alot of fatigue on the driver IMO.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  28. #748
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    hull
    Posts
    911
    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Ferrari adopts the Mercedes philosophy for the second week of testing. One will do it in the morning and the other in the afternoon. Doing 169 laps in one day for one driver really puts alot of fatigue on the driver IMO.
    Yeah, I found the amount the Ferrari drivers were doing concerning

  29. #749
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    5,586
    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Ferrari adopts the Mercedes philosophy for the second week of testing. One will do it in the morning and the other in the afternoon. Doing 169 laps in one day for one driver really puts alot of fatigue on the driver IMO.
    This has to be where the young drivers, namely Charles, Max at 21 yrs.old and throw in Antonio at 25 have the edge big time! Come season opener they are for sure strong and ready to endure whatever comes their way. Experience for sure is the best teacher, next comes being strong enough to put it to use. Less mistakes, more points. Fatigue can be considered a DNF !

  30. #750
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Red Planet
    Posts
    677
    So the FIA changed the front wing specs to "simplify" the design (which helps the midfielders and backmarkers in a way) and to improve overtaking. Now Ferrari's concept looked strong and surely teams, especially Mercedes, will look into it.

    Meaning more man hours in the factory, more prototypes made, more wind tunnel testing, and consequently, more money spent. In short, cost-saving in F1 is a total farce and top teams - Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull, and Mclaren would just spend and spend until they gain an advantage or catch up to the team that is ahead.

    Why even bother?

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •