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Thread: The Reality Of The Situation

  1. #211
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    Whoops, double post.
    Last edited by Sha1; 19th March 2012 at 02:43.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial_Xtreme View Post
    Mate what are you always getting on about? It is quite clear from an objective person that you have an underlying problem with Fernando for whatever reason. While it is annoying, it's getting to the immature side of things if I may be frank. Before you go off on your childish name calling, I've been a Ferrari fan since 98. I would rather the team win the WCC before either driver wins the WDC. I've pulled/rooted/supported Michael, Felipe & Kimi and now Fernando. As you my first priority is the team. However the team has two drivers and their job is to get the maximum from the car and finish as well as possible. I believe everyone knows which driver is going to do that more often than the other one regardless of how good the car is or isn't.
    Any time anyone says the slightest thing negative about Felipe, you're very quick to break out the junior high school name calling. As the place you live, the reality of the situation is there hasn't been much positivity coming from Massa in the past few years aside from a miraculous comeback from a horrific accident. While some people certainly prefer one driver over the other nowadays, I think with all the goal is for Ferrari to be number one, even with the ones that came with Fernando. The past few years Felipe hasn't helped the cause. For multiple reasons, some of them quite justified others are most certainly not.

    Felipe had an awful day yesterday. Should he be fired? Heck no. You cannot blame Felipe for the fact the F2012 was born poorly. Nor can he be expected to outdrive the car like Fernando did, because Fernando himself will not always be able to do such things. There is much pressure on the drivers and even more pressure on the team. Everyone(who's reading this) wants Ferrari to be number one. To do this both drivers will need to carry their own weight. Both drivers will make mistakes sure, they are human. But both drivers should be based on performances. And will be. When Fernando has a bad day or makes a mistake, it should be recognized & discussed. And the same goes for Felipe. But anyone who says something negative about Felipe shouldn't be called childish names because you disagree with their opinion. Felipe should be given time. How much time? That is up to Stefano & Luca.
    If you would like to discuss the finer points of this situation, we definitely can as long as you leave the antics at the door. Sure some people here are only in it for the driver and they should be known as such, but you paint everyone with the same brush if they are critical of Felipe which is not fair.
    +1
    More often than not I rather just read the posts and avoid the flaming simply because it's not worth starting another round of childish name calling.

  3. #213
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    Reality of the situation:

    Alonso is doing bloody well to get the car where it is...very sluggish in handling...need to get some aero stuff right...

    About the other driver: miles off Alonso...

    I think Ferrari need to look beyond a loyal servant...someone quick and adaptable..We fired the ICeman after one year of bad performance..why put up with someone whoz disappoint with almost 2 years now..

  4. #214
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    It seems Massa loses his fire if the car is not doing what he wants her to do. He gets frustrated very easily and is either involved in accidents or is falling places. Alonso seems to approach differently. He is always on limit, in/away from traffic. May be its all in the mind.

  5. #215
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    FM is fast in a good car, but you could say that about any other current driver. Given last year's RB for instance even my mum would've been WDC. It's when the car's crook you need someone who can step up.

    Anyone know what his problem is? I get it he had trouble when we couldn't heat our tyres, but this year we're overheating them if anything so he should be WDC already but instead he's still buried deep in the pack? I just don't get it. I really love the guy and want him to succeed but he just makes my head hurt.

  6. #216
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    The reality of the situation is that we have the worst car out of all the established teams. Massa was blown away even by the force indias in qualifying, which says it all. I cant beleive we have gone so far backwards to create this piece of rubbish. One of the very worst ferraris in history.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzie View Post
    Remembered a quote from Piero Ferrari at Wrooom this year:

    "I think that today there are many good drivers, two or three who can be described as exceptional and one of them, Fernando, is one of us. We also have Felipe who is a great guy, held in great affection at Ferrari, who has shown that, even alongside an extraordinary driver like Schumacher, with a good car, he too can also be very quick: it is up to us to create the right conditions and maybe we owe him something."

    F2006 was a good car and he won 3/4 races that year...
    and now when the car is bad hez in the dumps...

    That comment was made last year...but we need to win constructors champions as well, for which we need TWO GOOD drivers finishing in the points consistently not being polar opposites of each other...

    I hear he can be tossed out after 10 races this year, so thats Hungary or Germany this year...and anyways we can always ask $antander to pay him out and get another (Spanish) driver in..

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddie View Post
    offtopic.. will u be at Sepang this weekend? Since you are from Malaysia...
    Nope. Unfortunately I can't afford the ticket for a good seat

  9. #219
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    Probably the car has been custom built to Alonso's requirements, Massa knows that this is his last year anyway, add to that the fact that the car is inherently not quick, and that sort of explains.

    A different driver may have had a better race, but would have still struggled to get in the top 10 with this car I'm sure.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Nope. Unfortunately I can't afford the ticket for a good seat
    I will see if I can get you into the corporate box. No promises but I will certainly try.


    On a seperate note, its not just about who is fastest on the track that cuts a drivers contract...

    Its about package... and package means, sponsorship $, good publicity and PR, driver age and future plans, so many more things....

    Having said that, I still think Ferrari owes both our drivers a winning car...

  11. #221
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    so just to confirm, how far are we behind pole position? about 1 or 1.5 seconds?
    What about race conditions? 1 second per lap?
    How much slower where we in 2011 first race in race conditions?

  12. #222
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    1 second per lap if being optimistic.

  13. #223
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    i think. lets set aside first the issues with felipe. let us concentrate more on the problem of the car. if it cant be solved, i don't think it can be blamed on felipe. yes fernando can drag it like no one else. maybe if the F2012 can get up to speed, so is felipe. if the F2012 can recover the gap with the leaders and still felipe is cruising with the midfielders and alonso is fighting for the win.
    that is the time that issues with felipe should be resolved right away. kubica would be the first one on the list!! just my opinion
    Hell would have broken loose

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifosi View Post
    then stop trolling with repeated sarcastic comments about Massa when we all know you are not a supporter and you have already made your negative point clear. It's childish
    Yeah, and let you go on by yorself? You can´t drop it, can you? People who doesn´t adore little Sunshine should just be quiet, and let all the other go on how loyal he is, how sorry we all should feel for him. Accept instead that there are some people with different opinions. I´m not a supporter of Massa, thats true. Why should I support someone who acted like he did 2 yrs ago. I´m sure he will, when he ends his career at Ferrari, make the same negative comments about the team as Rubens. Blame the team for lack of success and how his hands were tied up. Thats loyalty I guess...
    And yeah, you haven´t made your POSITIVE point clear enough. You are very mature. I wish I were more like you...
    Must be nice for you on a board under Ferrariflag with every other moderator having Sunshine as either a avatar or quote in the signature. And claim they support both drivers, when they clearly have as much problems with Alonso as some have with Felipe...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curbs View Post
    Yeah, and let you go on by yorself? You can´t drop it, can you? People who doesn´t adore little Sunshine should just be quiet, and let all the other go on how loyal he is, how sorry we all should feel for him. Accept instead that there are some people with different opinions. I´m not a supporter of Massa, thats true. Why should I support someone who acted like he did 2 yrs ago. I´m sure he will, when he ends his career at Ferrari, make the same negative comments about the team as Rubens. Blame the team for lack of success and how his hands were tied up. Thats loyalty I guess...
    And yeah, you haven´t made your POSITIVE point clear enough. You are very mature. I wish I were more like you...
    Must be nice for you on a board under Ferrariflag with every other moderator having Sunshine as either a avatar or quote in the signature. And claim they support both drivers, when they clearly have as much problems with Alonso as some have with Felipe...
    Maybe it would be a good idea if you stopped and checked out what people have said before assuming the opposite of them simply to justify your poor behaviour.

    You were repeatedly slagging off Massa (who is part of the team) for no other reason than to flame bait the community. This is a Ferrari community and as many have said, there is no good reason to ditch Massa after race one of the season because it will not currently help ensure either WDC or WCC with the current car that we have. That is a reasoned argument - independent of driver preference.

    However, if you prefer to sarcastically disrespect the opinion of many people on the forum who chose to take both a reasoned and mature approach to the subject then that's up to you. Attacking people on a forum who do not share your view without addressing their logic and reasoning and merely repeating yourself to evoke a reaction is what trolls do. What you don't seem to be able to get into your head is that needlessly and repeatedly slagging off a member of the team on its support forum only to make you feel better about yourself makes you no better and no more useful as a member of this community than a McLaren fan who has turned up and is determined to cause trouble.

    Show me some Massa fans on here that that have defended him this week-end based on his performance on Saturday and Sunday? Show me anyone of the people you generically slag off because they don't demand his immediate dismissal that have defended him without a reasoned argument about how doing that would not help Ferrari in the current situation.

    If you can't then please stop repeating to us all that you don't support Massa, because we already get that bit. What we are interested in is why you think sacking him now will help the team - not your frustration and lack of patience after one race week-end.

    We are all frustrated Ferrari fans, not blind "lovers of little sunshine", and no number of generic and patronising comments about the members of this board will change that and make you right.

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

  16. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curbs View Post
    Must be nice for you on a board under Ferrariflag with every other moderator having SunshinIe as either a avatar or quote in the signature. And claim they support both drivers, when they clearly have as much problems with Alonso as some have with Felipe...
    Well as the only mod with a sig quote and avatar of 'Sunshine' I assume you are referring to me. Hi!

    I can say with absolute confidence that neither I nor any other mod on here has a problem with Fernando. To suggest so is just paranoia. I've praised him plenty of times on here but I really don't see why I should justify my support of anyone to you.

    And it's not Fernando that Tifosi or anyone else is taking issue with, it's the (minority of) people who are only here because of Fernando, who only care about their boy getting a good enough car for his third WDC, who blame the team and only them the second anything goes wrong, and will desert this place the second Fernando leaves Ferrari. Which is a shame, because the vast majority of Fernando fans on here who didn't support Ferrari previously are great, and have become supporters of the team as well.

    But if you want to twist that to people having a 'problem with Fernando' then boo hoo.
    Last edited by Suzie; 19th March 2012 at 10:16.
    Forza Jules

  17. #227
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    Mate what are you always getting on about? It is quite clear from an objective person that you have an underlying problem with Fernando for whatever reason. While it is annoying, it's getting to the immature side of things if I may be frank. Before you go off on your childish name calling, I've been a Ferrari fan since 98. I would rather the team win the WCC before either driver wins the WDC. I've pulled/rooted/supported Michael, Felipe & Kimi and now Fernando. As you my first priority is the team. However the team has two drivers and their job is to get the maximum from the car and finish as well as possible. I believe everyone knows which driver is going to do that more often than the other one regardless of how good the car is or isn't.
    Any time anyone says the slightest thing negative about Felipe, you're very quick to break out the junior high school name calling. As the place you live, the reality of the situation is there hasn't been much positivity coming from Massa in the past few years aside from a miraculous comeback from a horrific accident. While some people certainly prefer one driver over the other nowadays, I think with all the goal is for Ferrari to be number one, even with the ones that came with Fernando. The past few years Felipe hasn't helped the cause. For multiple reasons, some of them quite justified others are most certainly not.

    Felipe had an awful day yesterday. Should he be fired? Heck no. You cannot blame Felipe for the fact the F2012 was born poorly. Nor can he be expected to outdrive the car like Fernando did, because Fernando himself will not always be able to do such things. There is much pressure on the drivers and even more pressure on the team. Everyone(who's reading this) wants Ferrari to be number one. To do this both drivers will need to carry their own weight. Both drivers will make mistakes sure, they are human. But both drivers should be based on performances. And will be. When Fernando has a bad day or makes a mistake, it should be recognized & discussed. And the same goes for Felipe. But anyone who says something negative about Felipe shouldn't be called childish names because you disagree with their opinion. Felipe should be given time. How much time? That is up to Stefano & Luca.
    If you would like to discuss the finer points of this situation, we definitely can as long as you leave the antics at the door. Sure some people here are only in it for the driver and they should be known as such, but you paint everyone with the same brush if they are critical of Felipe which is not fair.
    +1, some people here are quick to shoot you down as soon as you mention something negative about Ferrari. We are all fans, we have our views, we can't agree on everything but that doesn't make the some people right and others wrong. And it seems as soon as you do disagree on something you're in effect 'flame baiting' or 'trolling'. Seriously get a grip.
    "The client is not always right." - Enzo Ferrari

  18. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddie View Post
    I will see if I can get you into the corporate box. No promises but I will certainly try.
    Thanks for the very generous offer Eddie. Unfortunately I doubt I can make it since I live in Malacca. There's the problem with accommodation and all.

    Well, hope you have a great weekend there.

    Been cloudy and rainy all over West Malaysia lately. One day its sunny, next couple of days its cloudy. Lets just hope it doesn't rain this weekend.

  19. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial_Xtreme View Post
    Mate what are you always getting on about? It is quite clear from an objective person that you have an underlying problem with Fernando for whatever reason. While it is annoying, it's getting to the immature side of things if I may be frank. Before you go off on your childish name calling, I've been a Ferrari fan since 98. I would rather the team win the WCC before either driver wins the WDC. I've pulled/rooted/supported Michael, Felipe & Kimi and now Fernando. As you my first priority is the team. However the team has two drivers and their job is to get the maximum from the car and finish as well as possible. I believe everyone knows which driver is going to do that more often than the other one regardless of how good the car is or isn't.
    Any time anyone says the slightest thing negative about Felipe, you're very quick to break out the junior high school name calling. As the place you live, the reality of the situation is there hasn't been much positivity coming from Massa in the past few years aside from a miraculous comeback from a horrific accident. While some people certainly prefer one driver over the other nowadays, I think with all the goal is for Ferrari to be number one, even with the ones that came with Fernando. The past few years Felipe hasn't helped the cause. For multiple reasons, some of them quite justified others are most certainly not.

    Felipe had an awful day yesterday. Should he be fired? Heck no. You cannot blame Felipe for the fact the F2012 was born poorly. Nor can he be expected to outdrive the car like Fernando did, because Fernando himself will not always be able to do such things. There is much pressure on the drivers and even more pressure on the team. Everyone(who's reading this) wants Ferrari to be number one. To do this both drivers will need to carry their own weight. Both drivers will make mistakes sure, they are human. But both drivers should be based on performances. And will be. When Fernando has a bad day or makes a mistake, it should be recognized & discussed. And the same goes for Felipe. But anyone who says something negative about Felipe shouldn't be called childish names because you disagree with their opinion. Felipe should be given time. How much time? That is up to Stefano & Luca.
    If you would like to discuss the finer points of this situation, we definitely can as long as you leave the antics at the door. Sure some people here are only in it for the driver and they should be known as such, but you paint everyone with the same brush if they are critical of Felipe which is not fair.
    I have no problem with Fernando dude

    I do have issues with some of his fans who think that this forum should be primarily used as a support tool for him and not for the team he drives for. These are the people who are selectively objective about aspects of Ferrari dependant on their relation to Fernando's WDC aspirations. I know he is the best driver on the grid and that he will win "us" the WDC, so I can hardly have an issue with that can I?

    However, i'd be more than happy for you to point out to me where i've said something that proves I have an issue with him

    @Jose-Lorca Fan - the only people I debate are the ones that have a negative opinion that they are not prepared to back up with facts over and above their own emotions and frustration at their own team or elements of it. Getting a grip would make sense for these people. Being sarcastically negative about one of our drivers for its own sakes is not an opinion btw, its flamebaiting

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

  20. #230
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    The reality is that we are already in trouble and we have to do anything possible to get over it... Truth sometimes hurts...

  21. #231
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    Hello everyone.I am new here but have been following this forum since the first day of Jerez testing.I have been following the Ferrari team for a long time and know how many times we have been through similar positions like we are in now.The lack of a competitive car is certainly not helping but there are some facts that cannot be ignored.
    During Sunday's race nearly all team mates where racing quite close to each other except our Massa and Alonso.In fact on the 47th.lap Alonso was 5th. and Massa was 13th behind new boy Vergne in a Toro Rosso!!!
    This gap between our drivers has been increasing and i can't see any chance of challenging for the Constructers even with a better car.If the new car was built to Alonso's driving style it will only make Massa's problems bigger.I agree that first Ferrari have to sort their car and i am sure they will, but still the team must do it's best to help Felipe to perform like the days when he could help Schumacher and bring points to the Scuderia!!

  22. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dino View Post
    Hello everyone.I am new here but have been following this forum since the first day of Jerez testing.I have been following the Ferrari team for a long time and know how many times we have been through similar positions like we are in now.The lack of a competitive car is certainly not helping but there are some facts that cannot be ignored.
    During Sunday's race nearly all team mates where racing quite close to each other except our Massa and Alonso.In fact on the 47th.lap Alonso was 5th. and Massa was 13th behind new boy Vergne in a Toro Rosso!!!
    This gap between our drivers has been increasing and i can't see any chance of challenging for the Constructers even with a better car.If the new car was built to Alonso's driving style it will only make Massa's problems bigger.I agree that first Ferrari have to sort their car and i am sure they will, but still the team must do it's best to help Felipe to perform like the days when he could help Schumacher and bring points to the Scuderia!!
    Greetings.
    I think our main problem is unbalanced car, not Felipe.
    This season will be the "Rosso Corsa" season!
    Fernando is FAster than anyone.


  23. #233
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    Perhaps they found in the last free session on Saturday that the chosen configuration was working badly, and decided to try a bold move for the qualy with different solutions in the two sides of the garage, hoping to enhance the probability of finding, at least for one car, a half-working configuration. Thus the two cars could be fundamentally different, with Felipe getting a configuration which turned out to be particularly under performing. The words of Domenicali and Fry seem to indicate something of this kind.

    If this is somehow close to what happened we could expect that when we find, possibly with new parts, an optimal solution which can be fitted to both cars the differences between our drivers will be smaller again.

    Let's hope that this happens sooner than later, and puts us close to the top.

  24. #234
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    Now what must LdM be thinking after watching this. He's not gonna point the finger at Felipe will he?

  25. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifosi View Post
    As an Alonso fan, what is your interest here?

    To stir the pot? , or are you seriously suggesting that swapping Massa now will win us the WCC?

    You are not primarily a Ferrari fan (as your moniker makes clear) so is it that you want Massa to be a better rear gunner for your boy's WDC Campaign?

    Nail your colours to the mast if you like but don't be vague when you are rubbishing part of the team that this Forum supports (Fredifosi aside that is )
    massa is not worth supporting,this is a JOB and where I come from. dont do your JOB you get replaced really kind of simply.

  26. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonsofan2002 View Post
    massa is not worth supporting,this is a JOB and where I come from. dont do your JOB you get replaced really kind of simply.
    So in essence you think Massa is better than Alonso, and by not beating Alonso it shows Massa is not doing a good job? Is that right?
    Forza Ferrari

  27. #237
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    It was only the first race... and Massa has never been great in Melbourne. He was miles behind Alonso last year, but finished in front of him in the next 2 races.

    Main problem is the car, Alonso was defending fifth from Maldonado for god's sake!

  28. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by meh123 View Post
    F2006 was a good car and he won 3/4 races that year...
    He won 2 races that year. Turkey and Brazil. The following year 3 races, and lead Kimi up until the Italian GP. Then in 2008 it was 6 wins. Zero since then.

    Sure 2009 he had that accident. But what is strange is that in 2010 he was a whole lot closer to Alonso than last year. So the accident cannot be blamed?

  29. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonsofan2002 View Post
    massa is not worth supporting,this is a JOB and where I come from. dont do your JOB you get replaced really kind of simply.
    You are a driver fan so I don't expect you to understand or indeed show support outside of that. Your simplicity in evaluation is very easy to adopt, but your driver's paymasters are not as simplistic as that i'm glad to say. Massa will go when it's appropriate to Ferrari's campaign, and only a nutter would get rid of him at this point in time with the car we have at the moment. It may happen at the end of the season or earlier - who knows. Unless it creates opportunity for WCC then it's just another issue to handle, not a solution to our biggest one.

    However, you support what you want to dude, i'll support what Ferrari are trying to achieve right now cos i'm not simplistic enough in approach to believe I know better than the team and that only fans know what the reality of the current situation is.

    Please feel free to re-repeat your opinion until Massa goes though. I'm sure it will feel like it was worth it to you when it happens

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

  30. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegablue View Post
    But what is strange is that in 2010 he was a whole lot closer to Alonso than last year. So the accident cannot be blamed?
    It was more or less the same. Average qualifying gap was .300s in 2010 and .294s in 2011. In 2010 the car was better so he struggled less in races, in 2011 he had more problems than Alonso with the harder tyres and Ramilton.

    Can't say if his accident is to blame, to have some sort of indication we need Kimi back in the other Ferrari
    But personally I think he was driving at his best in 2009.

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