Massa, Kubica To Swap Seats?

[Stormy]

F1: Massa, Kubica To Swap Seats?

Felipe Massa and Robert Kubica are rumored to possibly be swapping rides next season...
SPEED Staff / GMM | Posted September 01, 2010 GMM Newswire

The driving futures of Felipe Massa (Right) and Robert Kubica (Left) could be linked. (Photo: LAT Photographic)
Even with the top cockpits locked out for 2011, Formula One's silly season continues to run.

Ferrari's Felipe Massa and Renault's Robert Kubica have signed new contracts to stay with their respective teams not only next year but also in 2012.

But Televisio de Catalunya has reported that the respective Brazilian and Polish pair could swap race seats for 2011.

The move would see Massa, who has had a difficult season so far with Ferrari, race for Renault next year, freeing up Kubica to be Fernando Alonso's Ferrari teammate.

Meanwhile, Kubica's teammate Vitaly Petrov might leave Renault but remain powered by the French marque's engines in F1 next year.

That is the claim of the Swiss publication Motorsport Aktuell, amid reports Enstone based Renault is still yet to decide if the Russian rookie is good enough to stay with the works team in 2011.

So does that mean that Massa and as the rumors are going that maybe Kimi will consider driving for Renault next year we are going to see them both united again :lol:lol
I would like for Massa to stay at our team though.

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-felipe-massa-robert-kubica-to-swap-formula-one-seats/

[mandzipop]

I think that because this year's silly season is looking quite unsilly, the press are just making things up now.

[Tifoso]

Kubica would be a fantastic signing.

I dunno, Massa seems distracted and a bit angry to me. I could be wrong, obviously.

[Rishu]

I doubt Alonso & Kubica can co exist as team mates.
Although if they do manage to do so, they'll be a deadly combination

[NJB13]

Silly indeed

[Stormsearcher]

I doubt Alonso & Kubica can co exist as team mates.
Although if they do manage to do so, they'll be a deadly combination

I was thinking the same thing. They are both front runners and i doubt they will make a good 'team'. Besides i dont think this rumour has any truth in it. But Kimi might just move to renault next year. So much for i wont race for a team that cant win the championship.
@Tifoso-- i agree. There was no happiness or camaraderie between them after the 1, 3 last weekend.

[Tifoso]

I was thinking the same thing. They are both front runners and i doubt they will make a good 'team'. Besides i dont think this rumour has any truth in it. But Kimi might just move to renault next year. So much for i wont race for a team that cant win the championship.
@Tifoso-- i agree. There was no happiness or camaraderie between them after the 1, 3 last weekend.

Lou ;-)

Kubica could do it, if he had a contract making him #1 (alal Schumi) after Alonso leaves...

[mandzipop]

I was thinking the same thing. They are both front runners and i doubt they will make a good 'team'. Besides i dont think this rumour has any truth in it. But Kimi might just move to renault next year. So much for i wont race for a team that cant win the championship.
@Tifoso-- i agree. There was no happiness or camaraderie between them after the 1, 3 last weekend.

So going by this, we'll have Kimi and Massa back together at Renault.

Must admit, they look like they don't get on. Lets hope that the "pact" works. It worked when Kimi and Massa were together quite well.

[racingbradley]

I read this a few weeks ago on another website and decided it was something about nothing. We all know Kube is a big friend of Alonso but the fur would surely fly if Kube was asked to move over in favour of his friend--------------- a friendship that may not last long.
The media are enjoying themselves reuniting Massa and the iceman.:-) Very interesting ;-)

[Tifoso]

So going by this, we'll have Kimi and Massa back together at Renault.

Must admit, they look like they don't get on. Lets hope that the "pact" works. It worked when Kimi and Massa were together quite well.

Uhh, I hope they don't win a single race :-)

[racingbradley]

Must admit, they look like they don't get on. Lets hope that the "pact" works. It worked when Kimi and Massa were together quite well.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_TYJrB8ZJQ8A/TIu46he1sRI/AAAAAAAAOiE/OBkvypsUnAA/s1600/36536.jpg

The body language says it all.:-)

[Ferrari_Fanatic]

I doubt Alonso & Kubica can co exist as team mates.
Although if they do manage to do so, they'll be a deadly combination

Massa & Alonso is a good pairing!!

[Greig]

Must admit, they look like they don't get on.

Based on?

[Red is Best]

That would be awesome. Kubica is one of the most underrated drivers on the grid, along with Suttil. I like Felipe, but lets face it, he's not as good as he used to be. I still don't understand why he got a new contract.

[Stormsearcher]

So going by this, we'll have Kimi and Massa back together at Renault.

Must admit, they look like they don't get on. Lets hope that the "pact" works. It worked when Kimi and Massa were together quite well.

I doubt Renault will let Kubica go. He is like alonso, he can punch above his weight and i think he is pretty good with developing the car as well. Dont think Kimi (in fact definitely not) would replace him in that field, not so sure about Massa either.
This pact is not gonna happen.

[mandzipop]

Based on?

Body language.

That article is gaining momentum, it is also in Autosprint.

http://www.auto.it/autosprint/formula_1/2010/09/15-6107/Il+%22mistero+monzese%22+di+Massa

[Greig]

Ah so you are a body language expert now :-)

Same body language that showed MS and Luca Di to hate each other I guess :-D

They are team mates, not best friends :-)

That article does not say a swap as far as I can see ;-)

[Ferrarichamp]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_TYJrB8ZJQ8A/TIu46he1sRI/AAAAAAAAOiE/OBkvypsUnAA/s1600/36536.jpg

The body language says it all.:-)

alonso looks like he needs the bathroom :-P

[996 GT1 Lover]

I doubt Alonso & Kubica can co exist as team mates.
Although if they do manage to do so, they'll be a deadly combination

They're known for being great friends, though. I could definitely see them being teammates.

[mandzipop]

Ah so you are a body language expert now :-)

Same body language that showed MS and Luca Di to hate each other I guess :-D

They are team mates, not best friends :-)

That article does not say a swap as far as I can see ;-)

From the article (google translate)

"Running , even before Monza, entries that the Brazilian is interested in Renault"

No I am not a body language expert, call it woman's intuition. Yes I am a woman.

[Greig]

From the article (google translate)

"Running , even before Monza, entries that the Brazilian is interested in Renault"

No I am not a body language expert, call it woman's intuition. Yes I am a woman.

As I said, does not mention swap :-)

Ok call it intuition then, what do you expect from team mates? they are professional racing drivers, not dolls :-D

[Stormy]

Well maybe Massa is unhappy with the fact that he is a second role in Ferrari and he dont wanna play like that so if he swaps with Kubica to Renault he will be defenetly first driver if Kimi doesnt consider moving to Renault...ehh Iceman you denied Mec's for WRC well drive for Renault now :D
Imagine if Kimi signed for Meclaren that time i think he would be very competetive more than Button is now i gues.

[Stormsearcher]

Ah so you are a body language expert now :-)

Same body language that showed MS and Luca Di to hate each other I guess :-D

They are team mates, not best friends :-)

That article does not say a swap as far as I can see ;-)

True. Its as it should be, but there is not even a pretense of being good team mates. They shook hands after the race, and then barely even looked at each other after. Just an observation thats all.. could be nothing. :-)

[Stormsearcher]

alonso looks like he needs the bathroom :-P

hahahah.. true... looks like he needs the bathroom and no one is letting him go. :-P

[Greig]

True. Its as it should be, but there is not even a pretense of being good team mates. They shook hands after the race, and then barely even looked at each other after. Just an observation thats all.. could be nothing. :-)

Massa never spoke to Kimi either, maybe Massa is the problem :-)

Or maybe they are just not best friends, shocking I know :-)

[Milla]

F1: Massa, Kubica To Swap Seats?

I would like for Massa to stay at our team though.

I wish Massa will leave Ferrari as soon as possible.
They don't deserve him.

Kubica + Alonso?
non stop moans and complaints from Scandalonso :clap It will be great show :lol

[mandzipop]

As I said, does not mention swap :-)

Ok call it intuition then, what do you expect from team mates? they are professional racing drivers, not dolls :-D

I don't like being insulted, I come on this forum be cause I support Ferrari. I want to see the best drivers work together. Harmoniously off track as they are a team. They don't have to be friends, but as long as they can work together for the benefit of the team then I'm happy. I am happy with our line-up. Ferrari did the right thing getting rid of Kimi.

As long as the pact that JA suggests exists, then I think it is fantastic and the way to go about winning the championship. Therefore these rumours would be completely wrong. We can only report what we see in the media. As none of us know exactly what goes off behind the scenes.

[Greig]

I wish Massa will leave Ferrari as soon as possible.
They don't deserve him.

Kubica + Alonso?
non stop moans and complaints from Scandalonso :clap It will be great show :lol

Troll alert

[Stormsearcher]

Massa never spoke to Kimi either, maybe Massa is the problem :-)

Or maybe they are just not best friends, shocking I know :-)

hahah.. yes, thats cause no one could understand what kimi said.
Well, atleast its not a fake love-fest on the podium like lewis and button.

[Greig]

I don't like being insulted.

Insulted? what are you on about lol

[Tifosi]

The summer break is over. Why do we have threads like this still? :Hmm

[aroutis]

If Ferrari has decided to do a Schumacher (ie. #1 status mode from now on) , I can imagine that Massa won't be happy and it 'll be soon enough he'll be looking for alternatives.

I also feel that Ferrari is examining this option (I am not saying that they definitely have made up their mind); but taking under consideration the fact they want the rule for banning team orders revoked, (in essence team orders freed), that could only mean they want to be able to dictate who comes first, who comes second.

Now , one could say that doesn't mean they have decided Alonso is #1, but then again I think that it's going to be like with Schumi's years. The first few races will dictate the status.

[Greig]

If Massa is leaving over Alonso being no1, then what makes anyone think Kubica would be willing to be no2 to Alonso?

[mandzipop]

Insulted? what are you on about lol

Assuming I would play with dolls. When I was a kid I was playing with matchbox cars.

I hope the stories are a complete load of rubbish.

[Stormsearcher]

I honestly think at the beginning of the season, both Nando and Felipe were on even terms. As long as they didnt take each other out, they would race. But it became evident that Felipe wasnt coming to grips with either the car of the tyre and this meant that the team had to put all their eggs in one basket.
I dont see why it should be any different next season. They will both start again on equal terms.
But then, why is massa looking so off now?

[DIEK]

Long time ago, Alonso said he didn't like Kubica will be his mate, because he is his friend ...

[aroutis]

If Massa is leaving over Alonso being no1, then what makes anyone think Kubica would be willing to be no2 to Alonso?
Who said I believe that he 'll be his replacement?

[aroutis]

Long time ago, Alonso said he didn't like Kubica will be his mate, because he is his friend ...Business and friendship do not match.

[Tifoso]

Troll alert

Renooski fan:-)

[Greig]

Who said I believe that he 'll be his replacement?

It was a general wondering, not aimed at any one person

[Greig]

Assuming I would play with dolls. When I was a kid I was playing with matchbox cars.

I hope the stories are a complete load of rubbish.

And that would be insulting how? I never assumed anything of the sort, just it seems some want 2 people to get on just cause they work at Ferrari....

[aroutis]

I honestly think at the beginning of the season, both Nando and Felipe were on even terms. As long as they didnt take each other out, they would race. But it became evident that Felipe wasnt coming to grips with either the car of the tyre and this meant that the team had to put all their eggs in one basket.
I dont see why it should be any different next season. They will both start again on equal terms.
But then, why is massa looking so off now?Perhaps there comes a time when the team changes their decisions. Perhaps they see that McLaren and Redbull in essence are doing Team Orders while they don't which means that by not putting their eggs in one basket, they'll not play in even ground.

There comes a time you need to be realist and do what it takes to win. And that goes for Ferrari too. And Ferrari IS a winning team. We don't follow, we LEAD.

I do feel that they probably have decided to go back to the #1 status days, that'd probably explain what you're asking bout.

Then again, it's only my gutt feeling.

[aroutis]

It was a general wondering, not aimed at any one person

Oh ok.

[Tifoso]

Perhaps there comes a time when the team changes their decisions. Perhaps they see that McLaren and Redbull in essence are doing Team Orders while they don't which means that by not putting their eggs in one basket, they'll not play in even ground.

There comes a time you need to be realist and do what it takes to win. And that goes for Ferrari too. And Ferrari IS a winning team. We don't follow, we LEAD.

I do feel that they probably have decided to go back to the #1 status days, that'd probably explain what you're asking bout.

Then again, it's only my gutt feeling.

I have no problem with team orders at all. The de facto #1 (not sure there should be a fixed one, unless the performance gap is large, obviously) should be chosen by the end of July, at the latest (unless the drivers are close, then maybe default to the previous year's best performer.

It is all about the team. Period. :-)

[mandzipop]

And that would be insulting how? I never assumed anything of the sort, just it seems some want 2 people to get on just cause they work at Ferrari....

It felt quite sexist.

[Greig]

It felt quite sexist.

Any more so than you using women's intuition as reason to say they don't get on?

I think not :-)

And is it not sexist of you to assume only girls can play with dolls :-)

[mandzipop]

Any more so than you using women's intuition as reason to say they don't get on?

I think not :-)

Having pre-conceptions of me as a woman leading to assuming I would play with dolls can come across to the person targeted as, appear sexist. If it wasn't intended that way fine. It just felt that way.

Anyway back to the one thing we have in common, a passion for the best for Ferrari. :-)

[Greig]

Having pre-conceptions of me as a woman leading to assuming I would play with dolls can come across to the person targeted as, appear sexist. If it wasn't intended that way fine. It just felt that way.

Anyway back to the one thing we have in common, a passion for the best for Ferrari. :-)

Don't you have some ironing to do? :-D

[siberianlady]

We'll see. Felipe just seems to look miserable most of the time for some reason at the moment.......not too sure why.
Realistically Ferrari have got to bet on Fernando for this year.......what happens next year is anyone's guess........ and after comfirming Felipe for the next two years i really cannot see Ferrari changing that right now - they have no reason to.

[mandzipop]

Don't you have some ironing to do? :-D

What does the word ironing mean? Is it F1 related, some part of the car that I've never heard of before?;-)

[Stormsearcher]

I do feel that they probably have decided to go back to the #1 status days, that'd probably explain what you're asking bout. Then again, it's only my gutt feeling.

Hmm.. interesting. Is possible. Might explain Felipes mood/looks.
However, that would not explain the swap. Cause i dont think Kubica will want to be no.2 anymore than Massa does.

[Katu]

i'm not sure if i would like Fernando-Kubica combo more than i like Fernando-Massa one...

[Suzie]

How long is this Kubica/Massa crap going to go on for? :-ZZ

[Ste]

This has about as much chance of happening as me stopping being sarcastic. :-D

In all seriousness though, I hope Felipe doesn't go anywhere. They make a good team and they seemed to be getting on really well at Monza. As long as Felipe can sort out his issues with the tyres, we can have a great driver combination.

[siberianlady]

This has about as much chance of happening as me stopping being sarcastic. :-D

In all seriousness though, I hope Felipe doesn't go anywhere. They make a good team and they seemed to be getting on really well at Monza. As long as Felipe can sort out his issues with the tyres, we can have a great driver combination.
Totally agree with you Ste- can't see why Ferrari have any reason to rock the boat just now.

[Suzie]

Doesn't really matter whether they get along or not personally, as long as they don't let it affect their work. Personally I do think that they're not exactly bosom buddies, but Felipe and Kimi weren't BFF either. It'd be nice to have a line-up like Michael and Felipe again whereby our drivers are really good mates but realistically that's not going to happen.

[ferrari4life]

Frankly dont think Massa is pulling his weight very much with the team. I know there is all the drama about Germany but honestly he has not shown that he was capable of competing with the top team/drivers unless the car was just perfect.
I like him a lot but if we get a stronger driver in his place then Froza Ferrari all the way.

[Suzie]

By my calculations, this is now the 2,627th 'Massa to be replaced' rumour since 2006.

[512 TR]

F1 can live without Ferrari. (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing/f1-can-live-without-ferrari-says-kubica-1689585.html)

"If there is no Ferrari or no other car manufacturers, everyone will forget about them very quickly," said the 24-year-old Krakow native".

Disgusting!

Alonso and Kubica at Ferrari.

Disgusting!

[Agron]

Doesn't really matter whether they get along or not personally, as long as they don't let it affect their work. Personally I do think that they're not exactly bosom buddies, but Felipe and Kimi weren't BFF either. It'd be nice to have a line-up like Michael and Felipe again whereby our drivers are really good mates but realistically that's not going to happen.They were best of buddies because Massa was from the first race of the season the nr2 driver, Michael didn't consider Massa a threat at all. We saw in Canada? how Michael treats his best buddies when he gets competitive. If both had been fighting for the championship in the same team, and knowing how Michael put all the team behind him, the Ferrari garage would have been a very hostile environment for Massa.
And indeed Massa and Kimi weren't hostile with each other... because their relationship was non-existant, it was Massa himself who said he spoke more with Alonso in 2 days than with Kimi in two years. I don't think that working with a person for three years, in a job where at the very least you have to work together sharing info on setups, strategies and the like not talking with each other is good at all, rather a symptom of something not working.

I think Massa resents Alonso, first considering his point of view on the 2008 events as explained by Nelsinho, I guess he also blames him for his lost championship -ridiculous IMO-, and second because up till now he was the nr1 driver at Ferrari, or at least the one everyone listened to, and things have changed overnight with Alonso being dominant. Sucks for him and can't blame him as most would feel the same in his situation, but it's up to him to try and outdrive his new teammate.


Considering this rumour, while I agree Kubica deserves a top seat, I don't believe it will be Felipe's.

[512 TR]

Felipe Massa deserves better than to be Fernando Alonso's doormat. Twist it anyway you want but he really does.

[Greig]

Felipe Massa deserves better than to be Fernando Alonso's doormat. Twist it anyway you want but he really does.

Well he is free to leave isn't he, and you can go with him :-)

[Greig]

F1 can live without Ferrari. (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing/f1-can-live-without-ferrari-says-kubica-1689585.html)

"If there is no Ferrari or no other car manufacturers, everyone will forget about them very quickly," said the 24-year-old Krakow native".

Disgusting!

Alonso and Kubica at Ferrari.

Disgusting!

Glad you won't be around here to see it then :-)

[512 TR]

Glad you won't be around here to see it then :-)

There is a cancer at Ferrari, Greig.

It's serious. Don't make fun of it. Please don't.

[Greig]

LOL surely you have better things to do than come to a forum and whine all the time? can't be nice really....

[Suzie]

There is a cancer at Ferrari, Greig.

It's serious. Don't make fun of it. Please don't.

:-E

How long do we have?

[512 TR]

:-E

How long do we have?

Cancer can be cured. But not with the current people in charge.

It will take a couple of years. Young Mr. FIAT is standing in the wings.

If Luca wants Alonso to be happy. Let it happen. That will be his legacy, that's what people will remember...

[mandzipop]

Cancer can be cured. But not with the current people in charge.

It will take a couple of years. Young Mr. FIAT is standing in the wings.

If Luca wants Alonso to be happy. Let it happen. That will be his legacy, that's what people will remember...

Putting your eggs all in one basket is stupid. 1999 and 2009 showed that. Motorsport is dangerous. It says it on the ticket.

[Tifosi]

Cancer can be cured. But not with the current people in charge.

It will take a couple of years. Young Mr. FIAT is standing in the wings.

If Luca wants Alonso to be happy. Let it happen. That will be his legacy, that's what people will remember...

Is that English or just Crypticrap?

[TIFOSI_FERRARI]

MASSA IS damn good THAN KIMI.
BUT, Kubica & ALONSO IT LOOK LIKE DREAM TEAM.
FORZA SCUDERIA.

[Tifoso]

Cancer can be cured. But not with the current people in charge.

It will take a couple of years. Young Mr. FIAT is standing in the wings.

If Luca wants Alonso to be happy. Let it happen. That will be his legacy, that's what people will remember...

Andrea in charge would be perfect. He's already taken over Juve. Elkann is a fricking moron.

[mandzipop]

MASSA IS damn good THAN KIMI.
BUT, Kubica & ALONSO IT LOOK LIKE DREAM TEAM.
FORZA SCUDERIA.

It is always better to have drivers with similar stature and driving styles. It is better to have similar stature for adaptability. Not sure on how Alonso/Kubica line up with car set up. If one driver likes it pointy and the other driver like understeer then there is a design issue. You cant design a car around both.

2 cases. Webber broke his leg in 08. Vettel had to sort the car out. In Monza, due to the problems Webber had, Vettel had to sort his set-up and Webbers set-up.

Case 2, Kimi and Massa. Could Massa have set up a car for Kimi or vice versa?

Alonso and Massa are close enough to be able to set the car up for each other is one was taken out during FP and it couldn't be recovered. Like Monaco this year.

[Brakefade]

Alonso and Kubica are poker buddies. They should get along just fine.

[MundoX]

Kubica is a MUST at Renault team, so no swap. Kimi is needed at Merc. Massa is ok at SF, but beeds motivation.

[DonXabi]

Is that a good thing? Not overly convinced Kubica is any better than Massa.........but Massa isnt the driver he was before his accident. Alonso and Kubica are rumoured to be good friends, but Massa is part of the Ferrari-family and does a good job as No: 2. Think it is nothing but press ramblings as the driver situation for 2011 is pretty much settled - not to say it wont happen for 2012 though, contracts or no contracts............

[Greig]

If Luca wants Alonso to be happy. Let it happen. That will be his legacy, that's what people will remember...

Like he wanted Lauda to be happy? like he wanted Michael to be happy?

You are the one who laughed at a Ferrari crashing, which said it all to everyone

[TheProdigalSon]

This story is so ridiculous, I would gladly slap whoever wrote it for wasting our time!!

[aroutis]

I have no problem with team orders at all. The de facto #1 (not sure there should be a fixed one, unless the performance gap is large, obviously) should be chosen by the end of July, at the latest (unless the drivers are close, then maybe default to the previous year's best performer.

It is all about the team. Period. :-)

I totally agree, it's all about the team.

[vagos]

i dont care if kubica comes or not i want to have a driver that is pasionate about our team! for the moment alonso and felipe are doing just fine! there is no reason to change that unless felipe wants to b the no1 driver!

[aroutis]

Putting your eggs all in one basket is stupid. 1999 and 2009 showed that. Motorsport is dangerous. It says it on the ticket.
Is it really? Does the name Schumacher say something to you perhaps ? It was all about having a very strong driver and a very good team mate to support him and the team behind them.

What was wrong about that? Apart of course a number of WCC and some WDC that Michael got for himself?

[TIFOSI_FERRARI]

It is always better to have drivers with similar stature and driving styles. It is better to have similar stature for adaptability. Not sure on how Alonso/Kubica line up with car set up. If one driver likes it pointy and the other driver like understeer then there is a design issue. You cant design a car around both.

2 cases. Webber broke his leg in 08. Vettel had to sort the car out. In Monza, due to the problems Webber had, Vettel had to sort his set-up and Webbers set-up.

Case 2, Kimi and Massa. Could Massa have set up a car for Kimi or vice versa?

Alonso and Massa are close enough to be able to set the car up for each other is one was taken out during FP and it couldn't be recovered. Like Monaco this year.

the Men in Gestione Sportiva have the Ability to fix any issue, they really be capable of.
I'm not a Ferrari Mechanical to answer your question, but i I think massa had Great experience When he was a Fellow Michael, so absolutely he can do a Fantastic car set-up.
Obama's campaign slogan in the presidential election "Change", Ferrari must try "change" Option.

[racingbradley]

Frankly dont think Massa is pulling his weight very much with the teamI like him a lot but if we get a stronger driver in his place then Froza Ferrari all the way.
Where were you at the start of the grand prix last weekend. Massa was actually in front of Alonso at the first corner!!!!! Yes he gave way as Alonso turned his wheel into him and let Button past.;-) ---yes he gave way to avoid a collision with his team mate!!!!!
I thought, personally he was on fire all weekend. His pitstop was not quite as efficient as Nando's or he would probably have got past Button:-)
We are talking about a guy who lives & breathes for Ferrari and is happy & passionate about being there :-??
As regards this thread I really think it's much ado about nothing but it has stirred up a few issues:-)

[Greig]

Even with a 1 second stop he would not have got passed Button really, and he did not have much option but to let Alonso pass as Alonso had the line really after sticking to the outside :-) Shame he never gave way to avoid a collision in Silverstone, Australia and Germany :-D He shut the door on Alonso in Australia costing Alonso a place, and done the same in Germany into the chicane so I am not so sure about claiming Massa is suddenly giving way to let Alonso pass....and neither he should but its a bit confused to say he is giving Alonso a easy ride when clearly that is not the case :-)

[racingbradley]

Shame he never gave way to avoid a collision in Silverstone, Australia and Germany :-D He shut the door on Alonso in Australia costing Alonso a place, and done the same in Germany into the chicane :-)
There again we could look at it the other way in China where Massa's race was compromised as he waited behind Nando in the pit lane when he should of been first into the pits.
Silverstone I thought Nando touched Massa sending him to the back of the field!!!!!
Anyway I think the situation has significantly changed since Germany!!!!
I guess he has been told to give way in those situations!!!! :-)
But we are way of the topic of the thread now;-);-)

[Greig]

China was a mistake by Massa that let Alonso pass him as both admitted :-) I was joking about Silverstone....

There is no way he gave way to Alonso, they were pretty close to touching, Alonso braved it out round the outside or Massa would have got the place, or it would have ended up like Lewis did. You make it sound like they were not racing when clearly they were otherwise Massa would have given way well before making Alonso take the outside and dirty line....

[DanielM]

Felipe Massa deserves better than to be Fernando Alonso's doormat. Twist it anyway you want but he really does.

F1 is all about speed. If your team mate is much faster you become a door mat, thats how its always worked. Its upto massa to find more speed then he will get equal treatment like he did in 2008. Its in his hands.

[Agron]

There again we could look at it the other way in China where Massa's race was compromised as he waited behind Nando in the pit lane when he should of been first into the pits.
Silverstone I thought Nando touched Massa sending him to the back of the field!!!!!
Anyway I think the situation has significantly changed since Germany!!!!
I guess he has been told to give way in those situations!!!! :-)
But we are way of the topic of the thread now;-);-)Don't make me laugh, in Monza they fought very hard, closing all doors and even touching. You can say Massa wasn't dirty in defending, but at the very least he was as hard as fair racing allows.

IMO he made it clear that unless he is told from the pits to give way to Fernando, he won't.

[Ant Raikkonen]

I really rate and like Kubica and i hope he comes to Ferrari at some point. I feel he's ready now and is performing solidly in that Renault this year, but is he a better option than Massa for Ferrari? I'm not sure.

[Ferrari_Fanatic]

I really rate and like Kubica and i hope he comes to Ferrari at some point. I feel he's ready now and is performing solidly in that Renault this year, but is he a better option than Massa for Ferrari? I'm not sure.

yeah same here. if you asked me again at the end of next year ill have your answer.. at the moment i think it should remain unchanged...if massa is up there next year im sure ferrari would support him too!

[Hornet]

I highly doubt it will happen for 2 reason
First being that Ferrari could have just sign Kubica if they wanted instead of signing Massa for another 2 more years. Why go through the trouble of signing a driver and start swapping him out?

Secondly, Massa is not struggling at Ferrari at the moment, not IMHO. He's had a tough season, but since he got back to the front in Germany, he has been doing really well, certainly not "struggling".

It just doesn't add up for me.

[NJB13]

I highly doubt it will happen for 2 reason
First being that Ferrari could have just sign Kubica if they wanted instead of signing Massa for another 2 more years. Why go through the trouble of signing a driver and start swapping him out?

Secondly, Massa is not struggling at Ferrari at the moment, not IMHO. He's had a tough season, but since he got back to the front in Germany, he has been doing really well, certainly not "struggling".

It just doesn't add up for me.

Good post and all valid points. I guess the only possible thing that might have changed since the signing Felipe again is Germany. Some might try and argue he wants to move as a result of being upset by that event. Personally I'd be very disappointed if that was the case.

[Nova]

I think this is silly...Kubica is #1 @ Reno....why would he want to change that? Massa matched FA's times at MOnza, and aothough he MAY feel like
Ferrari signing Alonso is the worst thing in the world, there are worser things...

Silly season indeed...last thing I heard sillier than this was that Ron Vadar thinks he's Enzo Ferrari....

[Rishu]

The season may have almost two months to run, but rumours of driver movements within the top teams are yet again circulating, with Robert Kubica again linked with a switch to Ferrari.

Recently, a Spanish television station reported that, notwithstanding the existence of new contracts, Felipe Massa and Kubica could be set to swap seats for 2011.

The Swiss publication Motorsport Aktuell is now reporting a similar rumour, stating Massa could leave Ferrari at the end of the season to make room for Kubica. But the report said Massa would not be taken on Renault but by Ferrari-powered Sauber, where he drove as a rookie in 2002 and again in 2004 and 2005.

"Of course I read all the rumours," Kubica said in an interview, "but in the end the only thing is winning. We are all here because we want to win and you need the best car for that. Currently I'm at Renault and so I am focused on this team and on improving together. In 2011 we want to fight for the world title. We'll see what happens next."

Kubica admitted that he would like to race for Ferrari one day. "In karting, Formula Renault and F3, I've always been with Italian teams and I even lived for more than a year near Monza. Ferrari is a team unlike any other. The emotion and the history is unique. I think every driver would like to drive for Ferrari."


http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsport/story/28937.html

[Alessandra]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_TYJrB8ZJQ8A/TIu46he1sRI/AAAAAAAAOiE/OBkvypsUnAA/s1600/36536.jpg

The body language says it all.:-)

Now I am an expert in the field of reading body language...........ahem............what they are saying and thinking, in Alonso's case, is as follows:-

Felipe: I could have overtaken you but my tyres.........
Jenson: Are you 'avin' a laugh?
Fernando: Oh ***** here we go again........

[Anni]

Actually I was reluctant to post this here since I would rather not disscuss all the rumors about Massa leaving Ferrari. He has a valid contract with Ferrari for next year and in my opinion we should respect that and not listen to all the rumors out there.
However, following rumor is very persevering here in the German media and so I decided to post it here, just because I am curious if anyone else (from another country) has heard something this rumor.

From RTL, translated with Google translator(not very accurate but I think you will understand it):

For Felipe Massa expects tough 2010, the year has become. Following the announcement that the two-time world champion Fernando Alonso moves to Ferrari, Massa was combative and optimistic to have a chance against Alonso. The reality is different from: Massa is clearly in the shadow of the dominant Spaniard. Alonso is fighting for the championship, Massa about his future.

The 29-year-old Brazilian, in the 2008 season just one championship point vorbeigeschrammt the title stands for Ferrari on the siding. Behind the scenes - is it - the team leading the Scuderia is working on the commitment of Robert Kubica. Massa's contract was indeed not until 9 June extended for two years, but stubbornly keep the rumors, Massa was deported in 2011 for Sauber.

The fact that Ferrari does not care about old merits, had already experienced Kimi Raikkonen. The Finn, world champion in 2007 with the Reds, was brutally replaced with Alonso and parked against a lush "Millions" pain and suffering 'in rally sport. Massa's deportation could run more elegant. Sauber Ferrari is a longstanding partner with motors and drives from Maranello. Massa, who drove in the years 2002, 2004 and 2005 for the Swiss Peter Sauber, could therefore be removed to clean, although continuing in the Ferrari family. Depending on the contract situation, the Scuderia would not even thus in breach of contract.

Ferrari's desire pilot Kubica, a fat friend of Alonso, is still bound by contract with Renault. Until 7 July, he had extended his contract with Renault for two years. A poaching of Poland would cost the Italians so real money. But if Ferrari is really serious, money has rarely played a role. Kubica probably needs to be persuaded not take long to switch from Renault to Ferrari.

[Tifoso]

EDIT: THREADS MERGED-TSN Mod :-)

I really, really like Massa, but I believe this is true.

[Anni]

EDIT: THREADS MERGED-TSN Mod :-)

I really, really like Massa, but I believe this is true.

I hate to say it, but I either think it might be true, but as long as nothing is official I still have hope Massa will stay. IF he is to leave Ferrari it is much more likely he will go to Sauber than to Renault, in my opinion.
I just called the rumor silly because I call ALL rumors silly until they are official :-)

Someone from Brazil told me, most Brazilians WANT Massa to leave Ferrari, and it´s very likely he will follow the wish of his fellow brazilians.

[Hornet]

I hate to say it, but I either think it might be true, but as long as nothing is official I still have hope Massa will stay. IF he is to leave Ferrari it is much more likely he will go to Sauber than to Renault, in my opinion.
I just called the rumor silly because I call ALL rumors silly until they are official :-)

Someone from Brazil told me, most Brazilians WANT Massa to leave Ferrari, and it´s very likely he will follow the wish of his fellow brazilians.
That's a very sad thing if its true.

Also about what Brazilian thinks... I think they should give the situation (Massa-Alonso-Ferrari) a chance first. This year has been very difficult, a true test to the situation is when both our drivers have a proper attack on the championship from the beginning. Besides, Ferrari is Massa's only chance at the title I'm afraid that the moment he departs from a front runner team to something like Sauber, its very hard for him to get back to the front. I think they are too quick to judge things based on Michael-Rubens past situation.

:-s

[Grillo]

If Massa does a good job in the last part of the championship as he's doing in the last few races he will stay in Ferrari. It would prove he had problems heating the tyres but he'd have been able to solve it and could be again very fast in 2011 with the new Pirellis.

If Ferrari win a title he would stay regardless. I think Massa's future all depends on himself and the outcome of the season but see Kubica driving a red car very soon, 2012 maybe.

[Katu]

if Kubica and Massa will swapo places and Kimi returns to F1 with Renault - guess who will be teammates again?
still don't believe that it might happen

[Suzie]

So where's he going then? It was Renault, then Sauber. Where next? By this rate it'll be HRT this time next week.
Certain factions of the media will not be happy until Kubica is in a Ferrari.
Ferrari seemed happy to sign Felipe when his results weren't great at the beginning of the season - after a few podiums and 4th places why would they suddenly decide they want Kubica now.

[epiclyaddicted]

I hate to say it, but I either think it might be true, but as long as nothing is official I still have hope Massa will stay. IF he is to leave Ferrari it is much more likely he will go to Sauber than to Renault, in my opinion.
I just called the rumor silly because I call ALL rumors silly until they are official :-)

Someone from Brazil told me, most Brazilians WANT Massa to leave Ferrari, and it´s very likely he will follow the wish of his fellow brazilians.

Wow, really?

[Stormsearcher]

So where's he going then? It was Renault, then Sauber. Where next? By this rate it'll be HRT this time next week.
Certain factions of the media will not be happy until Kubica is in a Ferrari.
Ferrari seemed happy to sign Felipe when his results weren't great at the beginning of the season - after a few podiums and 4th places why would they suddenly decide they want Kubica now.

Well, maybe we are hearing of it now, but was decided long back. Just to hypothesise here, maybe they signed him on with a clause saying so and so... maybe on the total num of points he makes this season, or maybe diff between him and alonso ( might explain why he is so disgruntled even after driving so well to come third at monza) ... and if he failed to make the grade, then the swap happens.
I do wish these reports are wrong and so is my hypothesis, cause i think Nando and he make a great team. They need not be lovers like the McLaren duo, but as a team of competitive drivers, i think they are doing a fine job.

[Greig]

Well, maybe we are hearing of it now, but was decided long back. Just to hypothesise here, maybe they signed him on with a clause saying so and so... maybe on the total num of points he makes this season, or maybe diff between him and alonso

Why would they bother doing that, or why would Massa bother signing a new deal with such conditions, if Ferrari were concerned about his performances then there would be no rush for us to do a new deal, Ferrari I am pretty sure are happy for Massa to stay and want him to stay, I just hope he feels the same, Kubica won't really change Ferrari IMO.

[Stormy]

I think it would be unfair not to give Felipe one more chance proving him self that he can fight for a championship we are all seing that he has improved a lot since Germany and i think that kind of performance from Felipe will continue flowing till he is exactly the Felipe he was :)

[REDARMYSOJA]

I doubt this will happen but Kubica didn't really deny it. It's one of those stories that just keeps hanging around.

[TheProdigalSon]

I thought we already stopped playing musical chairs when everyone signed new contracts in the summer. This just seems like the media needing something to write about, since none of the big sites have reported anything to confirm any of this is true. And all the rumors I've read have no real evidence that anything is happening just pure speculation. Anyway cant see anything changing so just going to ignore this unless their is some solid evidence which there isn't at the moment.

[NJB13]

I think Felipe deep down, Germany upset Felipe. And I think this might have a lot to do with what's going on with these rumors. He probably did instigate some of his people talking to other teams, and perhaps talked with his old boss - Sauber. I think the real problem is that he just hasn't come to terms with being a proper team player. Perhaps, deep down, he doesn't want to accept the "tag" that he is, somehow, a #2 driver.
Firstly, I hope, if that is true, that he calms down and realizes that what was required of him in Germany, in no way makes him a #2 driver. I want Felipe to stay.
But, if he really can't accept that sometimes a Ferrari driver has to take a bullet for the team, then, it's best he leaves.
As to his replacement, well, the first thing we need to establish is that they understand and accept that the team comes first, second and then the driver can be thought about.
It is interesting that Kubica didn't say anything the dispel the rumors, even talking up Ferrari as a destination for every driver.
I still want Felipe to stay, but to stay as a team-man

[bladeswing]

I hate to say it, but I either think it might be true, but as long as nothing is official I still have hope Massa will stay. IF he is to leave Ferrari it is much more likely he will go to Sauber than to Renault, in my opinion.
I just called the rumor silly because I call ALL rumors silly until they are official :-)

Someone from Brazil told me, most Brazilians WANT Massa to leave Ferrari, and it´s very likely he will follow the wish of his fellow brazilians.


I think - and let me say this with due respect - that these people should understand that in Ferrari, the team always comes first. Massa understands that and follows that by heart. How could his supporters not?

[Lithium]

I don't see this happening. The medias can spin the things all they want, but one thing remains unanswered - what's in it for Renault? They have a contract with Kubica, the team is on the rise, they have their objectives and expectations all wrapped around Kubica. I like Massa, but I doubt Renault would want to swap Massa for Kubica. And even if Massa wants to leave/leaves Ferrari, I just don't see Renault letting Kubica go. Why would they?

[Sempre_Ferrari]

I don't see this happening. The medias can spin the things all they want, but one thing remains unanswered - what's in it for Renault? They have a contract with Kubica, the team is on the rise, they have their objectives and expectations all wrapped around Kubica. I like Massa, but I doubt Renault would want to swap Massa for Kubica. And even if Massa wants to leave/leaves Ferrari, I just don't see Renault letting Kubica go. Why would they?

Well if Kimi does indeed go to Renault they would have to let Kubica go, I don't think they can afford to pay two top drivers so maybe there is some truth in it somewhere :Hmm

[Lithium]

Well if Kimi does indeed go to Renault they would have to let Kubica go, I don't think they can afford to pay two top drivers so maybe there is some truth in it somewhere :Hmm
I doubt very much that Renault would take Kimi over Kubica. Kimi is a bit of an unknown quality at this time, so dumping one of the most highly ranked F1 drivers for a driver who's been away for a year would hardly make sense. Plus, when it comes to Kimi, there probably still are commitment/team work issues, where Kubica actually excels. Kimi might still go to Renault, but that will hardly be at the expense of Kubica. No team will pay him the amounts of cash he used to be paid, not even close.

[Katu]

if Renault lets Kubica go for Kimi, then Massa has to leave to make free space for Kubica. If Renault can't handle to pay both Kubica and Kimi, how would they be able to pay Kimi and Massa? I doubt that Massa would go to Sauber, they have even less money than Renault does

[Ferrari_Fanatic]

Hold your horses everyone Massa isn't going anywhere! Why would they sign him up for another 2 years with not that good results and then dump him when hes been getting better??? Maybe if they extended his contract for a year but 2 years theres no chance in him going unless Massa leaves himself which i doubt because Massa loves Ferrari

[Effone]

At first I thought it was awful but after some thought I hope its right, Massa needs to get out of Alonso's team and in a team where he can race for the wins. (I know they aren't going to win now but who knows what the future holds)
I would hate the rest of Massa's career to be tied up as alonso's #2.

Do it!!

[DanielM]

Kubica is no better than Massa. It always amazes me how short peoples memories are and they forgot or ignore than Heidfeld was better than Kubica when they were team mates for over 3 years. I dont have any time for hype.

[Tifosi]

Kubica is no better than Massa. It always amazes me how short peoples memories are and they forgot or ignore than Heidfeld was better than Kubica when they were team mates for over 3 years. I dont have any time for hype.

So you're saying that drivers dont/cant improve over time? :Hmm

[Hermann]

Maybe Alonso/Massa is not what you can call an ideal pairing sympathy-wise, but i think they have similar preferences car-wise. Though Fernando is able to cope with a car that is slightly oversteering he doesn't like it that way, and i think the same goes for Massa.

For the team this is an important factor. I don't know about Kubica in that aspect.

[Hornet]

At first I thought it was awful but after some thought I hope its right, Massa needs to get out of Alonso's team and in a team where he can race for the wins. (I know they aren't going to win now but who knows what the future holds)
I would hate the rest of Massa's career to be tied up as alonso's #2.

Do it!!
I would agree that if Massa is made the scape goat, then its probably better that he moves elsewhere. With his experience, he can easily be the lead driver in other teams.

However, as I mentioned earlier, its too early to pass judgement. People are too quick to judge the current Ferrari based on what happened with Ruby. Lets not forget that not only Michael is no longer with Ferrari, even Ross and Todt are no longer with our team. The current people in Ferrari F1 team is like a different generation of people now, a post-Schumi generation.

What happened in Germany has nothing to do with Ferrari trying the same tactic of building the team around one driver. Its something that any other team would have done. Desperate situations calls for desperate measure, so to say.

[mad_ani]

Maybe Alonso/Massa is not what you can call an ideal pairing sympathy-wise, but i think they have similar preferences car-wise. Though Fernando is able to cope with a car that is slightly oversteering he doesn't like it that way, and i think the same goes for Massa.

For the team this is an important factor. I don't know about Kubica in that aspect.

if they had a similar preference in terms of setup, how do you explain Massa not being able to work well with hard tires???

[Hermann]

if they had a similar preference in terms of setup, how do you explain Massa not being able to work well with hard tires???

I don't know. These things even seem to be a mystery to the teams sometimes, when you remember Heidfeld and Kubica. Neither the BMW team nor Heidfeld himself was really able to explain why he had more problems than his team-mate for getting enough heat into the tyres.

[mad_ani]

If Massa's setup isnt working,why dont the team try to copy/have a similar setup as Alonso's??

[DanielM]

So you're saying that drivers dont/cant improve over time? :Hmm

Not dramtically. Rememeber everyone saying Massa had improved dramatically? A drivers speed is like a persons intelligence. You are born with it and it never really changes.

[DanielM]

If Massa's setup isnt working,why dont the team try to copy/have a similar setup as Alonso's??

I dont think Massa really has a problem heating tyres. The reason Alonso heats his more is that he is simply faster, and when you are faster you work the tyres more, and heat them more, its like the faster you go the more downforce you have in an f1 car. So massa's REAL problem is that he isnt pushing the car hard enough, thus not heating tyres. Its not a isolated tyre heating issue to do with driving style that we keep hearing about. I cant imagine Alonso doing anything drastically different other than pushing harder. It puts the previous myth of ferrari having tyre heating problems into perspective though. It was never really the car just the drivers.

[Anni]

That's a very sad thing if its true.

Also about what Brazilian thinks... I think they should give the situation (Massa-Alonso-Ferrari) a chance first. This year has been very difficult, a true test to the situation is when both our drivers have a proper attack on the championship from the beginning. Besides, Ferrari is Massa's only chance at the title I'm afraid that the moment he departs from a front runner team to something like Sauber, its very hard for him to get back to the front. I think they are too quick to judge things based on Michael-Rubens past situation.

:-s

Yes, I agree, that´s all very sad.

I don´t think all Brazilians feel like that, but as far as I was told, a lot will not give the situation a chance since they believe Ferrari was bought by Alonso/Santander. They are the Nation of Senna, Fittipaldi, Piquet sen. and the last years they have seen Barrichello, Piquet jun. and now Massa obey to a team-order. I think their pride has suffered a lot and they will not accept anything like that again, this is why they want Massa to leave Ferrari, they don´t think he will get equal treatment next year and by their opinion to stay would mean he accepts to be a NR. 2 driver. If he will stay and not be able to beat Alonso next year he might loose the support from Brazil and this support is very important to him.
I want to stress this all is not MY opinion, this is just what I was told from a person from Brazil.

[Greig]

I dont think Massa really has a problem heating tyres. The reason Alonso heats his more is that he is simply faster, and when you are faster you work the tyres more, and heat them more, its like the faster you go the more downforce you have in an f1 car. So massa's REAL problem is that he isnt pushing the car hard enough, thus not heating tyres. Its not a isolated tyre heating issue to do with driving style that we keep hearing about. I cant imagine Alonso doing anything drastically different other than pushing harder. It puts the previous myth of ferrari having tyre heating problems into perspective though. It was never really the car just the drivers.

You are a funny guy, so in your theory how does Massa have no problems with heat in the softer compounds used? and surely Alonso would burn those tyres out since he is sooooooo fast and pushes the car soooo much more, oh wait you remind me of a previous member, becool now...

[Tifosi]

Not dramtically. Rememeber everyone saying Massa had improved dramatically? A drivers speed is like a persons intelligence. You are born with it and it never really changes.

An interesting opinion and comparison, although its believed that genetics account for 75% of your adult intelligence with the environment being responsible for the remaining 25% so i'm not sure I agree with you there. I'd say the comparison might still be valid though :-)

[DanielM]

An interesting opinion and comparison, although its believed that genetics account for 75% of your adult intelligence with the environment being responsible for the remaining 25% so i'm not sure I agree with you there. I'd say the comaprison might still be valid though :-)

Thats true but dont forget these drivers have been driving since they were kids, so even a rookie F1 driver is highly experienced at driving. Thats why I dont beleive in massive changes in performance in a driver after half a season. They flat line pretty quick in terms of raw speed. I rememeber montoya being well behind ralf for half a season when he started but then he flat lined for the rest of the years with him.

[Tifosi]

Thats true but dont forget these drivers have been driving since they were kids, so even a rookie F1 driver is highly experienced at driving. Thats why I dont beleive in massive changes in performance in a driver after half a season. They flat line pretty quick in terms of raw speed. I rememeber montoya being well behind ralf for half a season when he started but then he flat lined for the rest of the years with him.

yet you've stated raw speed as your principle criteria of what makes a better driver! You only have to look at Hami to know that that doesn't work :-)

[DanielM]

yet you've stated raw speed as your principle criteria of what makes a better driver! You only have to look at Hami to know that that doesn't work :-)

Ive had a few drinks, so Im not sure what your point is exactly. raw speed is the key. Without that platform everything else is worthless. The myth of consistency is nothing without exceptional speed. Just ask heidfeld how many races he was won.

[Stormsearcher]

Why would they bother doing that, or why would Massa bother signing a new deal with such conditions, if Ferrari were concerned about his performances then there would be no rush for us to do a new deal, Ferrari I am pretty sure are happy for Massa to stay and want him to stay, I just hope he feels the same, Kubica won't really change Ferrari IMO.

Dunno. But Massa might sign a deal with the conditions because i dont think he believes he is that much slower than alonso or cant challenge him. From his point of view, am sure he feels he is more than a match and saw no problems in such a clause.
Ferrari have seen how fast massa can be, so they know its there. Question is can he still bring that commitment to the table... maybe the clause is to push him harder. They signed him on before someone else snatches him away. Bird in hand better than....scenario.
Am pretty sure too that Ferrari would gladly have massa. Not so sure Massa is that happy though. Since germany, he is impersonating Grumpy from Snow whites range of dwarfs. :-P
I agree, Kubica wont change much for the team. Massa is just as fast as him and well settled into the team.

[Stormsearcher]

theres no chance in him going unless Massa leaves himself which i doubt because Massa loves Ferrari

With due respect to you and to massa; thats a load of BS. I dont think any driver in F1 loves a team more than his own chances. Both Massa and Fernando are in the team because they believe this team will help them win the title. Anything and everything above that is a bonus, like pride, legacy, comfort levels, camaraderie etc.,

[Stormsearcher]

At first I thought it was awful but after some thought I hope its right, Massa needs to get out of Alonso's team and in a team where he can race for the wins. (I know they aren't going to win now but who knows what the future holds)
I would hate the rest of Massa's career to be tied up as alonso's #2.

Do it!!

I think he should stay. Ferrari is his best chance. A Pink floyd song comes to mind---... " did you exchange, a walk on part in the war, for a lead role in a cage?"...

[Greig]

At first I thought it was awful but after some thought I hope its right, Massa needs to get out of Alonso's team and in a team where he can race for the wins. (I know they aren't going to win now but who knows what the future holds)
I would hate the rest of Massa's career to be tied up as alonso's #2.

Do it!!

Or stay at Ferrari and fight for the no1 role as he did against Kimi, never thought of Massa as a quitter so I don't see why he should move to a lower team with very little chance of a podium never mind a race win, everything after Ferrari is a step down as his mate Michael can tell him :-) You can try and claim "team Alonso" all you like, fact is there is no such thing other than in your mind.

[Tifosi]

Ive had a few drinks, so Im not sure what your point is exactly. raw speed is the key. Without that platform everything else is worthless. The myth of consistency is nothing without exceptional speed. Just ask heidfeld how many races he was won.

I'm saying that raw speed is not the only factor that determines the best driver in F1, as they also have to have many other skills to win races on a regular basis and mount a serious challenge to the title, regardless of the car. Kimi had raw speed but he wasn't the necessarily the best driver in Ferrari as a result so i'd say that raw speed without the other elements can be just as worthless :-)

[Tifoso]

I hope Massa stays. ----- the size of basketballs for racing after his accident. I dunno. I feel he is a cousin, especially after we of TSN adopted him.
FORZA MASSA :wine

[Stormy]

Well Massa proved that he can be a worthy title contender and since his accident in Hungary he was going very well sure he lacked on performance on for a while but as i said he is coming back to his old self again so there is not a reason in the world why we should replace him.
Forza Felipe :D

[REDARMYSOJA]

Or stay at Ferrari and fight for the no1 role as he did against Kimi, never thought of Massa as a quitter so I don't see why he should move to a lower team with very little chance of a podium never mind a race win, everything after Ferrari is a step down as his mate Michael can tell him :-) You can try and claim "team Alonso" all you like, fact is there is no such thing other than in your mind.

Felipe certainly wasn't drving like it's Alonso's team early in the year. There was about a three race span that got Massa caught out and put him behind in points, which led to Alonso getting the nod over him for the WDC. I can't remember exactly where I read it, Sawards blog I believe but it's said that after Hockenheim the team had a meeting and Felipe ageed to help Alonso the rest of the year with the assurance that he would be free to fight for the title next year. I have no idea if that's true however.

[REDARMYSOJA]

I hope Massa stays. ----- the size of basketballs for racing after his accident. I dunno. I feel he is a cousin, especially after we of TSN adopted him.
FORZA MASSA :wine

Agreed 100%:thumb

I think Massa's dice with Alonso at the start of Monza was a message to Alonso and the team that he's still the fighter we all know and love.

[Tifosi]

Felipe certainly wasn't drving like it's Alonso's team early in the year. There was about a three race span that got Massa caught out and put him behind in points, which led to Alonso getting the nod over him for the WDC. I can't remember exactly where I read it, Sawards blog I believe but it's said that after Hockenheim the team had a meeting and Felipe ageed to help Alonso the rest of the year with the assurance that he would be free to fight for the title next year. I have no idea if that's true however.

I reckon Massa knows the score and is willing to support Alonso this season. If they'd only had the meeting with him before Hockenheim then all these pointless Kubica rumours would have never have surfaced.




I think Massa's dice with Alonso at the start of Monza was a message to Alonso and the team that he's still the fighter we all know and love.

yeah. I think so too. I think all is well at the Scuderia and Monza showed just how hungry and capable Massa still is :-)

[Agron]

2008 proved you are shooting your own foot supporting a driver over the other from the start, it's only after one can no longer fight for the title, or when letting them fight will result in both losing the WDC (because other teams are using team orders, because you are slower than the opposition, or because you are down in points) that team orders should show their ugly face. Ferrari knows this so it's obvious they will start 2011 with both drivers fighting on equal terms, apart from the obvious team orders like no overtaking nor pressuring each other unless it's the first lap or the car in front makes a mistake; Ferrari provides a great car every season, equal chances to fight for the championship, great pay and a team that supports you, that all makes any suggestion about Massa moving from Ferrari for his own good quite dumb. Unless you don't care about Massa at all and just enjoy taking cheap shots at Alonso, eh Effone?

[mad_ani]

I dont think Massa really has a problem heating tyres. The reason Alonso heats his more is that he is simply faster, and when you are faster you work the tyres more, and heat them more, its like the faster you go the more downforce you have in an f1 car. So massa's REAL problem is that he isnt pushing the car hard enough, thus not heating tyres. Its not a isolated tyre heating issue to do with driving style that we keep hearing about. I cant imagine Alonso doing anything drastically different other than pushing harder. It puts the previous myth of ferrari having tyre heating problems into perspective though. It was never really the car just the drivers.


We all know ' Alonso is faster than Massa', and we want to know why. You seem to write this thinking drivers do not push their cars. Tires do not behave the same as aerodyn. Massa went for a low DF setup in Spa compared to Alonso,but he did not have problems with tires:-)

[vcs316]

Webber, Kubica, Massa deny team movement rumours

Mark Webber, Robert Kubica and Felipe Massa have played down wild paddock rumours about possible movement in the 2011 driver market.

All three drivers are under contract with their existing teams for next year, but that has not stopped rumours that Webber or Kubica could be heading to Ferrari, while Massa is ousted from the Italian team to possibly find refuge at Sauber.

"I have a contract with Red Bull and I'm a man of honour," Australian Webber is quoted by Turun Sanomat newspaper.

"I'd be very surprised if I'm not here next year.

"Moving to another team is something I'm not interested in. It doesn't seem to make sense to go and learn to work with another 500 people," he said.

Asked if he would enjoy having Fernando Alonso as a teammate, Webber answered with a smile: "I doubt he is coming to Red Bull."

Brazilian Massa also responded to the rumours.

"Every year we talk about who is going to replace me; I'm used to it," the Brazilian is quoted by El Periodico.

"It has been Rossi, Kubica, Vettel -- Alonso!" Massa smiled. "I have signed a contract renewal for two seasons so this kind of thing makes me laugh."

And Pole Kubica, currently at Renault for the foreseeable future, answered: "Of course I'm aware of the rumours.

"I don't know where they come from. All I can say is that I am with Renault."

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=388195

[Tifosi]

wow, so what you're saying is that these "rumours" were in fact "made up facts"? :roll

[DanielM]

You are a funny guy, so in your theory how does Massa have no problems with heat in the softer compounds used? and surely Alonso would burn those tyres out since he is sooooooo fast and pushes the car soooo much more, oh wait you remind me of a previous member, becool now...

Because the softer tyres heat up easier so he crosses the required threshhold to make them work, while he is not able to do so with the harder tyre which requires much more work into it. No need to laugh, at my theory because Ferrari have basically said the same thing. They say Alonso's 'aggressive' style heats the tyres more, im just saying that by 'aggressive' they mean faster.

[Sempre_Ferrari]

Q: (Joe Saward - Grand Prix Special) Stefano, in relation to Peter - because there have been some rather strange rumours this week about Felipe disappearing off to Sauber and Robert Kubica coming over to you - can you just put that story to bed completely and tell us it's rubbish?
SD: Absolutely. I totally underline what you've said, because I think it's getting boring news. Every day there is something new on that and I tell you that Peter and I meet a lot of times because we have a good professional relationship, so I can confirm what you said, absolutely.
Q: (Joe Saward - Grand Prix Special) And we are going to see the same drivers next year? '
SD: Yes.
Q: (Joe Saward - Grand Prix Special) Any other changes happening, are we going to see some restructuring technically?
SD: No. I think that for sure, our main structure will not change and the objective is of course to have a good number two who can grow up within the team but I think this is the objective of all the teams but nothing major, I would say. But as I say, once again, on the Felipe story, I think it's getting a little bit boring.


I hope that's the end of now and we can concentrate on supporting our drivers so they can bring the WDC and WCC home where it belongs :clap

[Greig]

Stefano used to the same about Kimi not being replaced by Alonso :-)

But I do believe him this time, can't see any reason to swap Massa for Kubica from a Ferrari point of view.

[Tifosi]

I think everyone's moving on the the "Flavio to replace Domenicali" rumours instead now. And so it goes on..........

[Sempre_Ferrari]

Stefano used to the same about Kimi not being replaced by Alonso :-)

But I do believe him this time, can't see any reason to swap Massa for Kubica from a Ferrari point of view.

Exactly

[Sempre_Ferrari]

I think everyone's moving on the the "Flavio to replace Domenicali" rumours instead now. And so it goes on..........

Well the press need something to keep the money machine going I suppose. Flav was asked recently if his return to F1 was imminent and his reply was....


"I have won seven titles with different teams. I want to have fun with what I'm doing - that is my motivation and not the need for a job," he explained. "At the moment I wouldn't have fun in Formula One. At the moment I am happy with what I am doing - being a dad, husband, and taking care of my investments,"

The "At the moment" in the statement though kinda points toward a possible return but not necessarily as Scuderia manager.... There were even rumors that he would take over Pirell :roll