McLaren illegal front wing?

[chris.gotfunk]

On lap 40, there is a shot of Lewser's front wing and I notice a gap opening and closing based on the pressure being generated on the front wing. Here are the pics I took of him coming out of a corner and on the straight.

This is illegal isn't it? Look at the bottom right of the picture.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o198/CMORTERA/photo3.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o198/CMORTERA/photo2.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o198/CMORTERA/photo1.jpg

[Grillo]

I have no idea but for sure that's an in depth race watching, mate. :-)

[Lithium]

Who cares, it looks like it only slowed down them anyways... :lol

[Hermann]

Send it to the FIA. Or to Ferrari :-D

[Suzie]

Yes but did you enjoy Monsters Inc.? :-D

[SilverSpeed]

Lol some people really see the small things :-D

[distortion]

Well spotted!

Makes sense too. That angle change should help reduce drag under load (speed).

:lol:lol

[grinchy]

Yes but did you enjoy Monsters Inc.? :-D

Thats just what i was thinking, ha ha!!

[Alonsomaniac]

One cannot expect McLaren to build a car that is so strong that it would not flex here and there or maybe even everywhere with Lewis driving it.
Nobody can build such a car......

[chris.gotfunk]

If I can find an email addy for Ferrari or the FIA, I would send the pics in for sure.

[Brakefade]

One cannot expect McLaren to build a car that is so strong that it would not flex here and there or maybe even everywhere with Lewis driving it.
Nobody can build such a car......

But when our wing was doing something very similar the FIA quickly told us to stop making flex/separate. They probably can't make their front wing flex like RBR so this is what they came up with.

[ferrari4life]

actually i caught a glimpse of what i thought was the wing separating from the car too. good eye sir

[ducksick_ang]

more or less flexi wing...

[NJB13]

Excellent spotting !!

[anachronox]

Dude, that was awesome spotting! Send it to FIA or Ferrari :D

[chris.gotfunk]

Okay, so there really isn't any email address I could find so I sent it to the Ferrari Scuderia link on their homepage. I hope it gets through to them. If anyone has something better, please pass it along. I went to Ferrari instead of the FIA because I didn't want to mess up and ruin Ferrari's chance to point it out. They know the legality and rules better than I do, so I figured it be best if this comes from them. Wish me luck on getting a response!

[chris.gotfunk]

Yes but did you enjoy Monsters Inc.? :-D

Suzie, of course I did! My kids are only 11 months old and THAT... is enough reason for me to turn it on and watch. :)

[impactX]

as long as it passed the load test its legal!

[scuderiafan]

from even looking at this picture I couldn't notice it still until now.

unbelievably good spot sir

[NJB13]

as long as it passed the load test its legal!

If someone cheated on an exam paper and passed, were they a cheat or were they clever?

If they get caught later do you pat them on the back and tell them they were clever and suggest they can keep cheating the same way next exam?

[Hornet]

as long as it passed the load test its legal!

Some years ago, that was the case with our rear wing. It passed all test, but video evidence showed some movement, and the FIA swiftly introduced a new part to the rear wing to ensure it wouldn't flex. Sp apparently visual evidence do matter, at least when it comes to Ferrari.:-D

[chris.gotfunk]

as long as it passed the load test its legal!

That to me, is a movable front wing device. Nothing to do with load test. Mechancial moving devices are illegal minus the DRS that is.

[sagi58]

Okay, so there really isn't any email address I could find so I sent it to the Ferrari Scuderia link...
Wish me luck on getting a response!
LOTSA luck!! Let us know how it goes!! :thumb

[Silent Bob]

I beliven in 06 they also made us attach our front wing support solidly to the nosecone when video evidence showed it pulling away at high speed.

[FerrariF60]

does anyone actually have the CLIP from that onboard camera looking at the wing??

thx

[chris.gotfunk]

does anyone actually have the CLIP from that onboard camera looking at the wing??

thx

I still have the race recorded. I can see if I can either export it or try to take some good video.

[scuderiafan]

Some years ago, that was the case with our rear wing. It passed all test, but video evidence showed some movement, and the FIA swiftly introduced a new part to the rear wing to ensure it wouldn't flex. Sp apparently visual evidence do matter, at least when it comes to Ferrari.:-D

well also, inspired by a team and a 600 page dossier in their possesion. ;-)

[chris.gotfunk]

I am really hoping to get some sort of response from Ferrari about this. I keep checking my email and my junk box just in case. I don't want any recognition for, just want them to revoke the McLaren's 4th place finish and where ever Jenson finished (thus putting Massa in 4th :-D).

I will say this, the reason I was able to see that on Lewser's car is that I honestly expected Ferrari to do the same thing. If you look at our pylons, we have screws that join the main plane of the wing and I would always watch our car to see if we any flex or something exactly like Mclaren did.

To me, it wouldn't make sense for them to do it knowing they have a camera right there... but maybe they didn't expect anyone (FIA) to catch it. I don't know.

When I get home tonight, I will see if I can get some video up for everyone in case you missed it during the race.

[siberianlady]

I am too technically stupid to understand but good luck!

[TheProdigalSon]

On lap 40, there is a shot of Lewser's front wing and I notice a gap opening and closing based on the pressure being generated on the front wing. Here are the pics I took of him coming out of a corner and on the straight.

This is illegal isn't it? Look at the bottom right of the picture.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o198/CMORTERA/photo3.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o198/CMORTERA/photo2.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o198/CMORTERA/photo1.jpg


How you spotted that I dont know

[Ferrari_Fanatic]

good spot but it have to see a slowmo vid to notice

[Tony]

Crap I have no idea what the heck you guys are looking at.... all looks the same to me lol.....

[mm154]

Crap I have no idea what the heck you guys are looking at.... all looks the same to me lol.....

If you look at the zoomed-in picture(the 2nd one), you see the gap between the up-right and the silver strip that the wing element slides into. The 1st picture is the same as the 2nd just in zoomed-out, so that you can compare it to the 3rd one which shows how the gap closes up under load...

[chris.gotfunk]

good spot but it have to see a slowmo vid to notice

What's crazy is that I saw this at regular speed. Only then did I stop it and go frame by frame to watch how much that thing moved.

[sagi58]

Crap I have no idea what the heck you guys are looking at.... all looks the same to me lol.....
Me, too!! I looked and I looked and I looked; but, nothing, niente, nada, nil, de rien!! :giveup
Maybe and arrow or two... maybe even three or four?? :oops

[Brakefade]

I just seen the video on my DVR box and it is in fact moving. At least a 5 mm gap opens up at hight speed, and then closes up under braking. I'll try to upload to youtube. We need to get these clowns DQed.

[killer]

Would McLaren not have known there was a camera mounted on the car's nose and therefore maybe not use an illegal front wing right in the camera's field of vision?

[mm154]

This should make it a bit easier to see... The pics marked 1 are the same picture just different zoom, the pic marked 2 shows the the gap reduced when the wing is under load... I haven't looked at the video, but I'm beginning to think it is not the wing element flexing but the back of the pylon upright flexing...

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m11/mm154/photo3.jpg
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m11/mm154/photo2.jpg
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m11/mm154/photo1.jpg

[Brakefade]

Would McLaren not have known there was a camera mounted on the car's nose and therefore maybe not use an illegal front wing right in the camera's field of vision?

It's Mclaren. They photo-copied our stolen blueprints at Kinko's... What can you expect from people like this.

[Brakefade]

This is two videos in one. The first one is a wide angle shot. The second one is a close up that shows the gap better. Keep your eyes peeled. You can see the wing moving, but it doesn't become really apparent until the end when FOM switches to another camera. Also, watch in Full Screen 720P to see it better.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSb4nLpvuoA

[Raz]

look at the pylons moving after 1:55 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVFnK_dw9Ec

[hogo]

This is two videos in one. The first one is a wide angle shot. The second one is a close up that shows the gap better. Keep your eyes peeled. You can see the wing moving, but it doesn't become really apparent until the end when FOM switches to another camera. Also, watch in Full Screen 720P to see it better.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSb4nLpvuoA
ouch now this is a solid proof! You can't photoshop that!

Btw if Ferrari won't respond, try sending these links to gazzetta.it or something similar :)

[Brakefade]

Word has gotten out already. Let's see what the FIA has to say about this.

http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/mclaren-european-gp-wing-movement/

[Greig]

good spot, I had to watch the video about 10 times before I noticed :-D

[Fiondella]

I would imagine it's legal if FIA load tested it. Good work super sleuth

[killer]

It's Mclaren. They photo-copied our stolen blueprints at Kinko's... What can you expect from people like this.

I know what you mean and I see the wing movement in question; I guess what I meant was McLaren must somehow know this is in the clear.

[Jacquesvw]

Can anyone tell me what to look for, because I'm not seeing what the differences in pictures are.

EDIT: Never-mind, the video shows it very well. Nice spotting!

[Stormsearcher]

We'll need a video clip to be more certain, cause it could just be that the wing fixes like that and does not move during the race. It could be that lewser been bashing his car around (and we know that is possible) and the wing has come loose. Mechanical fatigue rather than movable front wing IMO.
but it would be interesting if it is indeed moving, as that would mean McCheaters gonna get spanking from charlie. Or will they?

[Greig]

there is video's in this thread?

[Hornet]

there is video's in this thread?

Post #40

This is two videos in one. The first one is a wide angle shot. The second one is a close up that shows the gap better. Keep your eyes peeled. You can see the wing moving, but it doesn't become really apparent until the end when FOM switches to another camera. Also, watch in Full Screen 720P to see it better.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSb4nLpvuoA

[sagi58]

there is video's in this thread?
There's also a video in the article posted above:

http://www.twitvid.com/NLDQ1

Interesting stuff, eh?:-E

[Stormsearcher]

there is video's in this thread?

Sorry. It didnt show the video posts until i posted mine. Or maybe i missed it. :-D

Yes, the wing is indeed moving. Well spotted.
I very much doubt anyone will do anything about it.. but i really wish they do. Would love to see hamsters face when he hears he is demoted below the HRTs. :lol

[scuderiafan]

wow, that is clearly moving, and it is an aero part, so it is movable aero imo.

the RB wing is defferent, as we never know what does the flexing there, but in this, we do.

and i dont really think that dropping a 100kg load will really test that in theory, as i think it may move due to the air.

[Alonsomaniac]

Well, I saw it too now and frankly ......I don't think this is legal. At least based upon what we can see in the video.

[hogo]

I hate it how other teams are so passive and don't make any fuss about it. It seems that only fans care about fair game... Also if both McCheaters would be stripped of the points, Ferrari, Mercedes, Toro Rosso, Force India, Renault, Sauber and Williams would get more points. But it seems that they don't really need them:/
Sometimes I wish that only 6 drivers would get points, like in the good old days. That rule made points much more valuable.

[F1NAC]

they were 40 secs behind leaders :D Good wing :lol

[Hornet]

they were 40 secs behind leaders :D Good wing :lol
lol, indeed :lol:lol

[Raz]

http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/mclaren-european-gp-wing-movement/
Craig Scarborough got in touch with the FIA about it

[scuderiafan]

so he told them to change it. :thumb.

[siberianlady]

Yep- and good for Scarbs he actually got a reply.........Macca will need to change things there........(they could try going backwards and even overtake themselves in the process...........Lol)

[sagi58]

Yep- and good for Scarbs he actually got a reply......... I see that he received a response from the FIA/Whiting;
but, has there been anything from McLaren?

[sagi58]

Though not about their front wing, it looks like there may be "trouble" in the land of equality!



McLaren's sudden lack of competitiveness at the European Grand Prix seemed to release into the open some of the underlying tensions in the team...

...But both Hamilton and, to a lesser extent, Jenson Button were critical of the team post-race.
Button suggested that they "need to start taking more risks" in the car's development. Hamilton complained that recent developments - such as the new front wing introduced at Valencia - concentrated on front downforce but that it is the rear of the car that most badly needs a downforce boost...

...What is probably more significant than the fact of the car's struggle around the Spanish track is the frustration it unleashed in the drivers.
Someone who should know said in Montreal that Hamilton was "one unhappy bunny at McLaren and would leave tomorrow if he could".
But Hamilton has publicly stated his desire to stay with the team despite his recent form.
Button arrived in Valencia on the back of his stunning Canada win, talking openly of fighting for the championship, encouraged by the McLaren car's recent run of race day speed.
Just as he seemed ready to step up to that challenge, he found himself in a car that was nowhere near the pace.
Team principal Martin Whitmarsh put a brave face on it post-race, saying: "You want your drivers to be asking for more downforce and more power. What sort of racing drivers would they be if they weren't always asking for that?"
But the visibly irritated manner of the normally urbane and smooth team boss suggested something more was troubling him than just the occasional off-the-pace weekend that is a normal part of even a front-running team's season.
It would be highly surprising if the McLaren was not at least back on level terms with the Ferrari at Silverstone, and possibly back to threatening the Red Bull again...

...But the bigger question is: will that be enough to bring some serenity back to this team? There is a lot more "techno" stuff: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/13935658.stm