Ferrari worried about hard tyres for Silverstone

[i'am back]

we were losinig about 0.3 to red bull in third sector in Valencia
what can we aspect trough the beckets corners in silverstone
a massive upgreade needed!!!

[NJB13]

Just as an observation, but Nando seemed to have pretty good S3's through the race, purely from memory, but I thought it was S2 where he seemed to loose the biggest chunks of time to Fettel.

[Brakefade]

In Valencia we only saw the effects of the Q map ban. We still don't know what the full off throttle ebd ban will cause.

[Greig]

Newey said their whole car is designed around it, so they could well suck, McLaren as well going to be badly hurt, with Ferrari gaining the most.

[Mrs.Domenicali]

Well it may end up depending on the tyres.....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92692

Massa: Hard tyres for Silverstone would jeopardise Ferrari's surge

By Jonathan Noble Monday, June 27th 2011, 08:32 GMT

Felipe Massa believes Ferrari's ever-improving challenge against Red Bull Racing could be stalled at the British Grand Prix if Pirelli elects to take its hard tyre to that event.

A raft of upgrades to the 2011 Ferrari has helped the team close the gap to pacesetter Red Bull Racing, and it is keeping its fingers crossed that developments for Silverstone will help it do even better.

However, Massa reckons that the struggles Ferrari had earlier this year at races where Pirelli's hard tyre was used could be repeated if Pirelli chooses to take the conservative option for the next round for the championship.

When asked by AUTOSPORT about his feelings on Ferrari making further progress to close down Red Bull Racing, Massa said: "Well I am optimistic with the new parts we are going to try to bring to Silverstone. However, I am not so optimistic with which tyres we are going to have there, because I have heard that maybe we are going to have medium and hard.

"If we have that, it can be a problem for us - not just for us but for most of the teams maybe taking away Red Bull or even McLaren."

Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali said it was clear that the team would be in favour of Pirelli opting to bring the soft and the medium compound to Silverstone – with a final decision on the matter due in the next 24 hours.

"I think that if you look at our pace with the softer tyres you can see that our car always performs better with them," he said.

[Forzi]

Pirelli vows to stay neutral amid Ferrari's concerns over hard tyre

Pirelli says it will not be pressured into favouring one team over another when it comes to making a final decision on tyre compounds for the British Grand Prix - despite Ferrari admitting that its hopes of challenging Red Bull Racing could be hurt if the rubber is too hard.

Ferrari's recent upgrades have lifted the team into a position where it appears to be Red Bull Racing's current main rival - and Fernando Alonso was able to finish between Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber in Valencia.

However, with the team having struggled for pace earlier this year on Pirelli's hard compound tyre, Ferrari is openly worried about its prospects for Silverstone if that tyre is one of the choices for the British track.

A final decision on the matter will be made by Tuesday morning at the earliest and, although Pirelli is aware of how important its selection could be, the Italian tyre manufacturer says its priority is in bringing the tyre that is best for everybody – not just one team.

Pirelli's director of motorsport Paul Hembery told AUTOSPORT: "It is a big challenge for us because we want to make sure that we have good racing. Equally, we don't want too many pitstops. Silverstone could be very hot - and if it is hot, fast and aggressive that for us is a big call.

"If it is cold you don't want to have compounds too hard, which then start sliding and graining. It is something we are analysing. So we will look at the data from Valencia and we need to make a decision by Monday night, or at the latest Tuesday morning."

Hembery was under no illusion how significant Pirelli's decision could be on the competitive order for Silverstone – but said it would be wrong for a decision to be based on helping out individual competitors.

"The teams have a difference of opinion," he said. "We have asked their advice but clearly we don't want to favour or penalise one over the other. We have to take a look at the whole field.

"We have 12 teams we look at and feel that we are going to make the right choice for them, and also the right choice for us of course.

"Our main concern is to make sure that we don't penalise any team. Some people have decided that from Barcelona the hard tyre favours those with high downforce, so we have to be careful that the strategy based on hard tyres is not going to penalise any particular team. Equally we don't want to be in the situation where we have five pitstops, so it is a balance we have to find."

He added: "You have to think what is right for us - and what is right for us is that we don't want more than four pitstops. We would prefer to have three, but probably Silverstone whatever we do we will probably have four, whatever option we do. As long as we don't have five, that is fundamental for us.

"If it is three or four then it is mixture of how we balance all the requirements of the teams. We will do a table, we will analyse all the teams' requirements, and we will base it on what is the best for the majority of the teams."

[Hornet]

Please bring soft and medium :pray

If we want the hard, we might as well just use Bridgestone tires. Those tires are boring, even Lewis can make them last.

[Tifosi]

Indeed. Pirelli's job was to make the "racing" exciting, not to provide "mandatory hobbling boots" that no-one looks forward to wearing and the fans would rather didn't exist.

[Greig]

Indeed. Pirelli's job was to make the "racing" exciting, not to provide "mandatory hobbling boots" that no-one looks forward to wearing and the fans would rather didn't exist.

Ferrari said they had identified the problem did they not? so I assume they have done something to sort it, and our pace on the medium yesterday seemed pretty good.

We can't pick and choose tyres just to suit us. 5 stops is really not all that exciting tbh

[Tifosi]

Ferrari said they had identified the problem did they not? so I assume they have done something to sort it, and our pace on the medium yesterday seemed pretty good.

We can't pick and choose tyres just to suit us. 5 stops is really not all that exciting tbh

I know we cant and wasn't suggesting that :-). Neither is waiting for the inevitable slump when the hard tyres that "even Lewis can make last" have to be put on an exciting prospect. As I say, the idea was for the tyres to make the racing exciting, regardless of how it affects Ferrari per se. My worry is they may just become strategic race hobblers for cars and not an element that must be managed by the driver.

[Greig]

So they should just bring soft and super soft to every race then? don't matter if you have to stop ever 8 laps?

[tmcstocker]

First thing ferrari need to do is tidy up pit stops and then look at other things. I'm not saying sack this one or that one or any of that nonsense. I think in fact great progress is being made. I do however feel that the everyday stuff like sharp eficient stops maintaining race positions is the bread and butter.
Bring on silverstone i say! Forza

[RockyRaccoon]

The new hard tyre at Barcelona was a disaster for everyone except Red Bull and Mclaren, they were awful awful tyres and I hope the never bring them to a race again! You can say it's up to us to get the tyres working but they brought in a new compound in the middle of a season with testing being banned, it was just luck if your car worked on them. I know it's the same for everyone but with testing banned when exactly are the teams that can't use that stupidly hard tyre supposed to learn to use it?

[Tifosi]

So they should just bring soft and super soft to every race then? don't matter if you have to stop ever 8 laps?

The mediums would require us to stop every 8 laps? :-E

[Greig]

The mediums would require us to stop every 8 laps? :-E

No, not sure how you got that. Pirelli are not to blame if we can't use the hard tyre, and if they feel the hard tyre is needed to stop teams stopping 5 times then so be it.

We said we identified the problem, so not sure why we seem to be crying about it.

[Tifosi]

No, not sure how you got that. Pirelli are not to blame if we can't use the hard tyre, and if they feel the hard tyre is needed to stop teams stopping 5 times then so be it.

We said we identified the problem, so not sure why we seem to be crying about it.


As I said Greig, I wasn't talking about its use by and effect on Ferrari specifically. My point was that the hard compound used in Spain (which I believe is what they are thinking of bringing to Silverstone!?!) was moaned about by pretty much everyone as being slow, too hard and not particularly that much more durable.

My point was about the fact that such a tyre does not add to the racing and does not "open up more possible strategies" as Pirelli originally hoped that its introduction would. :-)

[RockyRaccoon]

No, not sure how you got that. Pirelli are not to blame if we can't use the hard tyre, and if they feel the hard tyre is needed to stop teams stopping 5 times then so be it.

We said we identified the problem, so not sure why we seem to be crying about it.

My only issue is with moving goalposts in the middle of the season. We were given a winter to test the tyres and then they change the hard tyre in the middle of the season. Red Bull and Mclaren put them on their cars and they worked while not a single other team could get them to work to the same extent. None of the teams are allowed to test to solve their issues so I think it is a little unfair to introduce a new tyre in the middle of the season without allowing the teams some time to understand their issues. Much like the off throttle diffuser ban, it is very likely Red Bull's car is designed around it and they don't even get any time to test any new solutions they might have. At least in '06 when the Mass Damper was banned, Renault were able to test the car to learn how it would behave without it.

Hopefully we have enough data from Barcelona to understand out tyre issues, but if they're going to change a tyre during the season would it not be fairer to all the teams to have at least one day of tyre testing, just so they can get to grips with it?

[Greig]

Well they used Canada to test the medium, and as said we ran at Spain with them so plenty of data which they said they had understood.

[RockyRaccoon]

Finger crossed we can be competitive then :-)

Would be great if everyone going to Silverstone could get a Ferrari win!

[Grillo]

I hope they bring the best compounds for us so we can see what's the best we can expect after the major upgrade in Silverstone.

No excuses that way.

[NJB13]

Indeed. Pirelli's job was to make the "racing" exciting, not to provide "mandatory hobbling boots" that no-one looks forward to wearing and the fans would rather didn't exist.

+1

[Schumyboy83]

Finger crossed we can be competitive then :-)

Would be great if everyone going to Silverstone could get a Ferrari win!

+1, as im going ;-):thumb

[scuderiafan]

http://www.ferrari.com/English/Formula1/Pages/Home.aspx

in the vid, stefano talks about updates for Silverston for Ferrari.

i think they should make some modifications to the hard to stop it being so slow, but that is mostly because Pirelli are new. they are still learning, and i feel that the hards will improve with Preformance with every lap raced on them.

[type056]

I read this 3 week ago:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92064

Ferrari 'understands' hard tyre issue

Fernando Alonso leads Mark Webber at Catalunya, 2011Ferrari technical director Pat Fry is confident that the Maranello outfit is on course to cure the problems it has had in using Pirelli's hard tyres this year.

Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa have both struggled for speed at circuits where the hard compound has been available - and the issues were highlighted at Barcelona when Alonso led in the early stages on the soft before losing a lap when he switched to the hards.

Ferrari has been working on the matter, and Fry told the team's official website that he believes progress has been made in the area.

"I think you need to look at the nature of the tracks and the tyres that are there," he said in a video interview. "Barcelona is a very challenging track: downforce is key there along with car balance, and you need to generate good tyre temperature.

"Trying to makes the hard tyres work is quite difficult and, if you look at some of the smaller teams, they could not get the hard tyre working at all, so you have quite a large spread of the speed of various cars and that grows as the tyres get harder.

"We had a few issues that we were working on last week and we now understand. They were giving us particular issues that exaggerated the problems that people have on the hard tyre, and hopefully we have an understanding of it now, and we have been working on fixing it."

Ferrari is set to bring a few developments to its car for this weekend's Canadian GP, which Fry hopes will deliver a further step forward in form.

"It is a normal constant stream of updates, and there are a few different parts coming through - a few little bits on the diffuser and a few bits on the rear wing," he said. "A reasonable performance step hopefully, if everything goes to plan.

"Hopefully we are still closing the gap to the other teams. There has not been a lot of time between Monaco and Canada, but the nature of the tracks are relatively different in terms of what you need for aero, so we have specific rear wings for those circuits and it is the normal push to get downforce on the car."

Although tyres are again expected to be a dominant factor in Montreal, Fry believes that this weekend's race will not prove as difficult for teams as last year's was.

"I think it is certainly going to be a challenging race," he said. "It is a bit like Monaco I suppose, where it is all about traction and braking. The braking is always a challenge there compared to Monaco. The traction and how cars uses tyres at corner exit will be key for how the rear tyres wear out.

"It is the same two compounds as it has been in the past but, if anything, I think it will be slightly less trouble than last year because the compounds are a bit harder."

I'm confused, Fry said that Ferrari solved hard tire problem but Massa think Ferrari still have problem.

[Rob]

Think we have got on top of the issues of not getting the hards working. We just havent the downforce to make them click like RBR and Mclaren. So im looking forward to Silverstone, seeing our updates and how we go on them. I have every faith that they will work and we can challenge the RBRs abit more closer again.

[i'am back]

So they should just bring soft and super soft to every race then? don't matter if you have to stop ever 8 laps?
why did you change the name of this thread?

[Greig]

why did you change the name of this thread?

So it matches the topic content, maybe and to save duplicate articles being posted.

[Nova]

Newey said their whole car is designed around it, so they could well suck, McLaren as well going to be badly hurt, with Ferrari gaining the most.

And if he told you that wolverines make good house pets, would you believe him?
I dont buy it at all..Its a smokescreen probably so the fia wont delve a little further.

And, if Pirelli bring the stinkers they brought to that 1 race? you remember..the one we got lapped!!!
If Pirelli brings those stinkers to Britain it will negate any, if any, increase in performance we may or may not gain.

When people yell the loudest, like RB, they tend to be hiding the most...

[i'am back]

So it matches the topic content, maybe and to save duplicate articles being posted.

when i started it i wasn't thinking about tyres at all(updates,track suit....)

the only reason we are talking about tyres is Massa,constantly bitching about hard tyres(alonso sad tey are the same for everybody)

you know what i think of him,that's why you banned me in the first place

[Greig]

And why I will ban you again :-)

[Lithium]

If we continue on having problems with the hard tyre, it's not good, as Silverstone is a 'RBR track'. But I hope the team solve the issue soon enough, so we're ready for 2012 with similar cars/rules/tyres...

[Ferrari2183]

Someone mentioned 8 pit stops earlier in the thread with the softer tyres. The thing is the new hard tyre didn't last much longer than the soft to begin with. It's an abomination of a tyre and has no place in formula 1 but it is what it is.

[Grillo]

Someone mentioned 8 pit stops earlier in the thread with the softer tyres. The thing is the new hard tyre didn't last much longer than the soft to begin with. It's an abomination of a tyre and has no place in formula 1 but it is what it is.

Nobody is too happy with the hard tyres but they are the same for everybody.

[Tifosi]

Nobody is too happy with the hard tyres but they are the same for everybody.

and thus logically why Pirelli don't have to bring them to Silverstone :-)

[Greig]

So have they decided yet?

[RockyRaccoon]

They were apparently supposed to have decided by Tuesday so I've checked Autosport a few times but nothing yet.

[Grillo]

and thus logically why Pirelli don't have to bring them to Silverstone :-)
They don't want everybody complaining about their tyres. I suppose Pirelli will try to bring the best pair of compounds for a good race.

[eilfff]

Where is the decision? :roll

[FFFerrari]

Hasn't come yet. Silverstone is legendary for being exhausting for tyres, so Pirelli's safebet is to bring Hard and Medium. They might run into trouble with Medium + Soft and I think they gap between Hard and Soft is too big. It would mean 4 or 5 pitstops. So I'm betting it will be Hard + Medium, even if it sucks for us.

[Grillo]

Hasn't come yet. Silverstone is legendary for being exhausting for tyres, so Pirelli's safebet is to bring Hard and Medium. They might run into trouble with Medium + Soft and I think they gap between Hard and Soft is too big. It would mean 4 or 5 pitstops. So I'm betting it will be Hard + Medium, even if it sucks for us.
Maybe it's time for medium and medium. They're not flexible enough with the rules sometimes.

[RockyRaccoon]

Or use the Hard tyre that was used before the new one? If I'm not mistaken pretty much every single team complained that it offered no grip and lasted no longer than the previous hard tyre?

[Stormsearcher]

Hasn't come yet. Silverstone is legendary for being exhausting for tyres, so Pirelli's safebet is to bring Hard and Medium. They might run into trouble with Medium + Soft and I think they gap between Hard and Soft is too big. It would mean 4 or 5 pitstops. So I'm betting it will be Hard + Medium, even if it sucks for us.

Why not the medium and soft? If its 4-5 pitstops.. it will still be the same for all. Plus it will add to the "excitement"...

[Ferrari2183]

Or use the Hard tyre that was used before the new one? If I'm not mistaken pretty much every single team complained that it offered no grip and lasted no longer than the previous hard tyre?
Which is now the medium tyre if Massa is to be believed.

[Forzi]

Ferrari boosted as Pirelli confirms soft/hard tyres for Silverstone

Pirelli has confirmed that it will bring its soft and hard compounds to Silverstone.

There had been some question of a medium/hard combination being used, but Pirelli has decided to take a punt on the soft, while knowing that it is going to be a bit marginal around Silverstone, where the teams will also take a step into the unknown as they run under the new engine mapping rules.

The presence of the soft is good news for Ferrari, for whom medium/hard would be a nightmare combination. Equally the use of hards – as opposed to medium/softs – will favour Red Bull over the prime stint.

“It’s one of the hardest circuits we face during the year,” said Pirelli’s Paul Hembery. “Together with Istanbul, Malaysia and going forward somewhere like Spa and Monza for the high speed, and then Suzuka. So it’s one of the big challenges.

“And also being England it’s very variable in terms of weather. This week they were having 30C, today I believe it’s down to about 15C. So again from a tyre maker’s point of view making a compound work in that wide variety of conditions is a big challenge. Hence the reason that also offering the soft compound would allow us to operate well in cooler conditions.

“There have been some comments that maybe working with the hard compound favours teams that have a lot of downforce, that may or may not be true. What I can say is that as a tyre company we also have to look after our interests, and that means in a severe condition such as Silverstone the hard compound gives us a back-up so that we don’t end up in difficulties with the product.”

Germany will see a medium/soft pairing, while Hungary will see the soft/supersoft combination back.

Not medium/soft as we wanted but better then medium/hard i guess :roll

[Kingdom Hearts]

On paper it's not that bad, we can keep the hard for the last 10 laps... on paper.

[Stormsearcher]

oh great! We are screwed. :-(

[FerrariF60]

On paper it's not that bad, we can keep the hard for the last 10 laps... on paper.

Ferrari kept on saying that they understood as to why they underperformed in spain using the HARDS
and with the new bits for the rear suspension introduced at last GP we may in fact fixed the issue and will be OK using the hard tires too...let's all :pray that is the case and WIN the next race

i'm WAY too optimistic, but a TRUE Ferrari Fan has to be

[Stormsearcher]

my Markos logic.. the FIA along with pirelli are then conspiring to bring tyres which does not work well with the ferrari hence favouring redbull. Why is he quiet about this then? idiot.

[puto.havana]

oh great! We are screwed. :-(

Well, lets just wait and see. I mean I have no idea of how we are going to do at Silverstone, but lets just see how the race weekend unfolds before we make our minds up.

[Hornet]

We'll be fine qualifying on the softs.
My only concern is our race pace.

Anyone remember Barcelona? We did well in qualifying, but when it comes to the race pace on the hards, we were lapped :-(

[Rob]

We'll be fine qualifying on the softs.
My only concern is our race pace.

Anyone remember Barcelona? We did well in qualifying, but when it comes to the race pace on the hards, we were lapped :-(

im sure the tean has ironned out our problems and be bringing updates that will help get those hard tyres working well. I mean more downforce.

[FerrariF60]

We'll be fine qualifying on the softs.
My only concern is our race pace.

Anyone remember Barcelona? We did well in qualifying, but when it comes to the race pace on the hards, we were lapped :-(

we'll have to either save a set of BRAND new softs for the race, or depending how the tires wear out, just use softs and then for the last stint of 10 laps or so use the hards

[Grillo]

I don't see it any good for Ferrari. If the soft is not good enough for more than 10-15 laps the hard tyre will be mandatory for the whole race and the soft only for the first stint. Hopefully we can grab P1 and P2 on saturday and fight for the win from there.

Let's see.

[scuderiafan]

at least it is mediums in Germany, and Super softs in Hungary.

[R Ginart]

We are all missing the point here in regards to tire selection. F1 is the ultimate in auto racing YET, a tire manufacturer decides what compounds will be used on a race-by-race basis. My question is WHY?
If I am a team manager for a F1 team, I would want to have the best equipment installed in my car to ensure top performance. I now have to settle for equipment that will NOT bring out the best performance from my car. WHY? What this is telling me is, FIA is trying to level the playing field by forcing top teams to use tires that will in effect slow them down. In other words parity!

Solution: Every team decides what tire compounds they want to use. Its up to the teams to deal with the amount of pit stops each different compound requires.

[Nova]

What I dont understand is why Pirelli has not improved this compound so that everyone could use it a bit more equally.
Its reported that they will bring this compound to Britain. So am I to assume its a non race for us?
Pirelli is so concerned about not playing favorites to Ferrari that they are basically, screwing Ferrari.
And I know its the same for everyone, but its not. It negates performance for certain teams.
Wow, Im really looking for an exciting race...because this means that either a Mac or a RB is going to win..period.
I needed tires for my car the other day and did consider Pirelli, but let me be blunt..after the performance of their tires this year
and their smugness regarding favoritism, I bought Mich's.

[Grillo]

WHY? What this is telling me is, FIA is trying to level the playing field by forcing top teams to use tires that will in effect slow them down. In other words parity!
No news there. This is why they banned EBD this season or mass dumper in 2006.


Its reported that they will bring this compound to Britain. So am I to assume its a non race for us?
As far as I know Ferrari have been working on a major upgrade for Silverstone which together with the EBD ban might help us to put up a fight.

[Alessandra]

We are all missing the point here in regards to tire selection. F1 is the ultimate in auto racing YET, a tire manufacturer decides what compounds will be used on a race-by-race basis. My question is WHY?
If I am a team manager for a F1 team, I would want to have the best equipment installed in my car to ensure top performance. I now have to settle for equipment that will NOT bring out the best performance from my car. WHY? What this is telling me is, FIA is trying to level the playing field by forcing top teams to use tires that will in effect slow them down. In other words parity!

Solution: Every team decides what tire compounds they want to use. Its up to the teams to deal with the amount of pit stops each different compound requires.


Exactly what I've been wondering too.

Could it possibly have something to do with money?:-)

[Greig]

We are all missing the point here in regards to tire selection. F1 is the ultimate in auto racing YET, a tire manufacturer decides what compounds will be used on a race-by-race basis. My question is WHY?
If I am a team manager for a F1 team, I would want to have the best equipment installed in my car to ensure top performance. I now have to settle for equipment that will NOT bring out the best performance from my car. WHY? What this is telling me is, FIA is trying to level the playing field by forcing top teams to use tires that will in effect slow them down. In other words parity!

Solution: Every team decides what tire compounds they want to use. Its up to the teams to deal with the amount of pit stops each different compound requires.

The tyres would slow everyone down equally so it does not create parity, using the hard tyres does not make HRT closer to Red Bull, if I was a team manager I would make sure my car worked on all compounds.

[R Ginart]

The tyres would slow everyone down equally so it does not create parity, using the hard tyres does not make HRT closer to Red Bull, if I was a team manager I would make sure my car worked on all compounds.YES and NO, it may NOT make HRT closer to Red Bull but, it does make Ferrari farther back from Red Bull. I am NOT buying the "Ferrari is solving the hard tire performance issu" line until I see it first hand. So for now I expect Ferrari to loose about a second per lap to the Red Bulls when on the hard compound. Let's hope I am proven wrong.

[Greig]

YES and NO, it may NOT make HRT closer to Red Bull but, it does make Ferrari farther back from Red Bull. I am NOT buying the "Ferrari is solving the hard tire performance issu" line until I see it first hand. So for now I expect Ferrari to loose about a second per lap to the Red Bulls when on the hard compound. Let's hope I am proven wrong.

So who is to blame for that if that is the case? Ferrari have had plenty of time to solve it, so you are asking for Pirelli to help us out by only using tyres that suit us?

[Grillo]

I am NOT buying the "Ferrari is solving the hard tire performance issu" line until I see it first hand.
I think it was Fry who said they had been working on that and they hope the situation will be better at Silverstone. If the new upgrade doesn't work there and Red Bull don't lose a tenth after the EBD off-throttle ban there's nothing a tyre compound can do for us.

[Meiga]

A bit OT, but I had to laugh when I saw this: I don't know if it is because of the cavallino's naughty smile, or because of Alonso's "puf, puf"

http://www.blogf1.it/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/008_Europa_web.jpg

[scuderiafan]

A bit OT, but I had to laugh when I saw this: I don't know if it is because of the cavallino's naughty smile, or because of Alonso's "puf, puf"

http://www.blogf1.it/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/008_Europa_web.jpg

wrong wrong :-!

Webbers bull has to be one-legged, and behind this, there should be a big wasteland, which used to be the rest of the grid. Lewis in the middle, saying 'i didnt do it' :-D

[Meiga]

wrong wrong :-!

Webbers bull has to be one-legged, and behind this, there should be a big wasteland, which used to be the rest of the grid. Lewis in the middle, saying 'i didnt do it' :-D

Do you mean something like this? ;-)

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKYSEhsfQ3dsL85e8JDhwnGjmyfW4Q8 zqFIO5cHAR2ou6Mu9Bnkg

[Nisko]

A bit OT, but I had to laugh when I saw this: I don't know if it is because of the cavallino's naughty smile, or because of Alonso's "puf, puf"

http://www.blogf1.it/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/008_Europa_web.jpg

:thumb

[Hornet]

We are all missing the point here in regards to tire selection. F1 is the ultimate in auto racing YET, a tire manufacturer decides what compounds will be used on a race-by-race basis. My question is WHY?
If I am a team manager for a F1 team, I would want to have the best equipment installed in my car to ensure top performance. I now have to settle for equipment that will NOT bring out the best performance from my car. WHY? What this is telling me is, FIA is trying to level the playing field by forcing top teams to use tires that will in effect slow them down. In other words parity!

Solution: Every team decides what tire compounds they want to use. Its up to the teams to deal with the amount of pit stops each different compound requires.

Exactly
Standardize tires is too boring. Its as good as standardizing all the cars

We want to see different variables which is what makes the race exciting, so let the team decide what tires they want. Pirelli job is to make the tires for the team, not tell the team what to do.

I find it disturbing that Pirelli has the power to say hey, I want to reduce the pit stops to 2, so all teams be damned, I'll do this whether you like it or not. Or to say hey I woke up this morning feeling like using this and that tires next weekend, so all teams please shut up and use them.

They are the tire supplier, they shouldn't have the power to decide what they team wants. Their only mandate is to provide the tires that are needed. Let the team choose what they want. the teams are the expert in this.

Mind you Pirelli only has, oh wait, they don't have any years of experience. And they are acting like the big brother that knows all instead of giving the teams what they want.

[Raz]

No such problems for MGP, they EAT thru the tyres, :lol i think it will be HARD, HARD, soft for MGP

[XXX132]

The tyres would slow everyone down equally so it does not create parity, using the hard tyres does not make HRT closer to Red Bull, if I was a team manager I would make sure my car worked on all compounds.

Not eactly Grieg, some cars will be more affected by tyre changes than others. RB and MacLyin obviously get more heat into their tyres, we can't/don't. They can tolerate hards, we hate them. Look at comparative lap times on each tyre.

As for the team manager comment, well obviously in an ideal world, but in reality a car design is usually a series of compromises, eg. you can have maximum straightline speed or maximum downforce. If you could get both... The designer makes the call. RB has small (and somewhat problematic) KERS. Their decision was it's a small price to pay to get the packaging they want, so far they have been proved correct.

The cars were designed with very little knowledge of the tyres and once locked in, there is little that can be done if the tyres don't perform as predicted. OK we got it not so right as RB, but we also have little opportunity to minimise the gap by using the optimum tyres (strategy). We are scrabbling frantically for barely tested aero upgrades which will come too late to make any difference.

Ferrari have gone for a car design that is gentle on tyres. Limited testing means they had to basically guess (hi-tech world this F1) the tyre characteristics at the end of last year. Well we got it wrong. We now understand why supposedly, but fixing it is another problem. How to test it?

Meanwhile it's game over. The point about letting the teams choose their tyres was therefore valid imo.

Pirelli now understand the characteristics of all the cars on the grid. They would be quite able to influence the WDC/WCC by simply bringing tyres to suit any particular team. At the beginning of the year, there was suggestion that they would favour Ferrari - that Mafia thing again - so they're almost trying too hard to overcompensate. To avoid any such suggestions they should allow free use of tyre compound.

Certainly there is no logic in choosing the hard-soft combo. One suits RB, one suits us. Win-win? If hards are the correct tyre, why bring the soft at all? And vice versa. This is just a gutless/political solution to make angry people go away, and as the other poster said, you can choose almost every component on the car but not the tyres that suit it best.

[aroutis]

Certainly there is no logic in choosing the hard-soft combo. One suits RB, one suits us. Win-win? If hards are the correct tyre, why bring the soft at all? And vice versa. This is just a gutless/political solution to make angry people go away, and as the other poster said, you can choose almost every component on the car but not the tyres that suit it best.Couldn't 've said it better myself.

Seriously, this is an idiotic decision.

[scuderiafan]

Do you mean something like this? ;-)

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKYSEhsfQ3dsL85e8JDhwnGjmyfW4Q8 zqFIO5cHAR2ou6Mu9Bnkg

Perfect!

and i think that if they are bringing a hard-soft option, they may have just got more grip out the hard, as they dont want 4stops, so they would need a better tyre.

[Greig]

Certainly there is no logic in choosing the hard-soft combo. One suits RB, one suits us. Win-win? If hards are the correct tyre, why bring the soft at all? And vice versa. This is just a gutless/political solution to make angry people go away, and as the other poster said, you can choose almost every component on the car but not the tyres that suit it best.

Because they need to bring 2 compounds, as for choosing the best tyres, that is just not the rules so there is no point moaning about it or feeling like Pirelli is out to get us, why on earth would they be doing that, they have said they want races with a decent difference between the compounds yet without the need for 4/5 stops such as Turkey. If Silverstone is warm then the hard should work well given the track surface, if it is cold then soft will be better as it will not over heat too much and be a longer lasting tyre, so there is clearly logic in the decision.

Maybe the McLaren and Red Bull got better out of the hards due to their advanced EBD, they will not have that anymore at Silverstone, so how about we wait and see before deciding Pirelli are idiots?

[Rishu]

British GP:
Prime: Hard
Option: Soft


German GP:
Prime: Medium
Option: Soft


Hungarian GP:
Prime: Soft
Option: Super Soft


Formula1.com

[Mrs.Domenicali]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92726

Fernando Alonso philosophical about Pirelli's tyre choice for the British GP

By Pablo Elizalde Wednesday, June 29th 2011, 16:37 GMT

Fernando Alonso is staying philosophical about the tyre choice for the British GP, although the Spaniard admits the hard tyre will be one more challenge for Ferrari.

Pirelli confirmed on Wednesday that it will take the hard and soft compounds to Silverstone, the same rubber that was used in the Spanish GP, where Alonso finished a lap down after struggling with the harder compound.

Alonso said there was no choice for Ferrari but to accept that all teams will be using the same tyres, and try to do the best job possible to adapt.

"For us that means one more challenge, namely being able to make all types of tyre work as well as possible," said Alonso on Ferrari's website.

"Anyway, the tyre choice is the same for everyone and there's no point discussing if the pair of compounds chosen is more suited to one team or another. It's up to the teams to adjust the cars to get the best out of the tyres both in terms of performance and life."

Alonso, who finished in second place in the European Grand Prix last weekend, said he was happy to see Ferrari's progress in recent races.

But the two-time champion insisted the Maranello squad is yet to turn the corner, and reckons Silverstone could be a challenging weekend for the Italian team.

"We are moving forward, as could be seen in the last three races, but now we must also confirm the progress seen at Monaco, Montreal and Valencia on a track with completely different characteristics, which is definitely more suited to our main rivals," he said.

"At Silverstone, you need a lot of aerodynamic downforce and this is area where we are lagging behind. We will have some new parts, but there's a step from that to saying we will have made up the difference...Maybe!

"We must be realistic and accept that it's not possible that in less than two months - the time past since the Barcelona race - we have closed the gap that was seen at the Catalunya circuit. It wasn't a whole lap, because that was down to the way the race panned out, but it was definitely bigger than what we have seen in the last three races.

"We must continue to work on improving the car and then I am sure the win will come. When? I don't have a crystal ball to be able to give a definite answer."

[Stormsearcher]

wrong wrong :-!

Webbers bull has to be one-legged, and behind this, there should be a big wasteland, which used to be the rest of the grid. Lewis in the middle, saying 'i didnt do it' :-D

:rotfl:rotfl:rotfl priceless dude!! fantastic.

[sagi58]

British GP:
Prime: Hard
Option: Soft BIG difference!



German GP:
Prime: Medium
Option: Soft Some difference!



Hungarian GP:
Prime: Soft
Option: Super Soft Little difference!

Formula1.com
I don't pretend to understand the techno-mumbo-jumbo; but, I do understand English. There's a difference in the "labels" given to the tires,
so I'm assuming there's also a difference in the compound itself. What I don't understand is why there is such a "big" difference between the
tires chosen for Silverstone in comparison to those chosen for the other venues listed above.

Help? :oops

[Greig]

Depends on how abrasive the track surface is, how hot the track is expected to be, Silverstone is quite a hard one to guess with the British weather :-) Could be roasting or freezing or latest forecast is rain rain and more rain so all this tyre talk will be pointless :-)

[sagi58]

Ohhh!! So Pirelli is trying to "second guess" what the track/weather combo is going to be like??
Sheez... isn't it easier just to ask the teams what they want? Or to bring more than just 2 types??:-E

[Greig]

Ohhh!! So Pirelli is trying to "second guess" what the track/weather combo is going to be like??
Sheez... isn't it easier just to ask the teams what they want? Or to bring more than just 2 types??:-E

That's a lot of tyres you want them to bring, it's not all that hard to second guess most places, don't understand why people are so concerned about it now, it's been this way since the season started.

[Hornet]

Depends on how abrasive the track surface is, how hot the track is expected to be, Silverstone is quite a hard one to guess with the British weather :-) Could be roasting or freezing or latest forecast is rain rain and more rain so all this tyre talk will be pointless :-)

Oh no not another wet race :giveup

[sagi58]

...don't understand why people are so concerned about it now, it's been this way since the season started.
Actually, this isn't a "new" concern for me! I didn't think it made any sense when it was first discussed, still don't.
All I was asking about was why the "big" difference between the two and you've answered it clearly.

Thanks!:thumb

[bladeswing]

Oh no not another wet race :giveup

passive already? :-) i think what matters most if we are able to make a big step forward with the upgrades, regardless if it rains or not. although we cant see the full difference in improvement if it is wet, but a win is never impossible if we've improved big enough

[Rishu]

Ironic but all strategies & luck work for the fastest cars.......... the they don't for slower ones

[NJB13]

If we're good enough we'll be able to win on whatever tyres they allocate for the race. I do agree with sagi though that they could allow more tyre options for each race. It might add a nice new dimension and encourage a greater diversity of strategies if say each team was able to pick their own desired prime and option tyre.

Lastly, it is silly to think we shouldn't lobby for the tyres we think will suit us best. In fact we should be lobbying to get as many things in our favour as possible. That's part of strategy in competition. It makes me laugh to see some comments about how we don't push the rules enough in our design and then I see criticism if we try and push the rules to get the tyre that suits us most.

[Stormsearcher]

Rain!!!! We want rain!!
Thats the only thing that can save us from that merciless hard tyre. If our upgrades are good as we are expecting it to be, then the rain will nuetralise the tyre disparity. :-)

[NJB13]

Rain!!!! We want rain!!
Thats the only thing that can save us from that merciless hard tyre. If our upgrades are good as we are expecting it to be, then the rain will nuetralise the tyre disparity. :-)

I can't see the hards effecting us anywhere near as badly as they did in Barcelona. I'm sure that situation will have improved. I suspect we will still be running more of the race on the option, rather than the prime.

[Stormsearcher]

perhaps not as much as it did in Barcelona.. but it will screw us nonetheless. I would rather that we dont have to race on that tyre and the only way that is happening is if it rains.
Having said that, i remember that vettel was fantastic in the wet on those tyres, while we were not that great (still better than the McLoosers).
So as the weather god, i am having trouble weighing which climatic condition i should throw into silverstone weekend. :-D

[Greig]

Hot, would mean the hard's heat up quicker and with our new suspension we might well enjoy them now :-) that's the challenge of competition. Ferrari probably should not have made any public comments about the tyre issue, as it just clouds things if Pirelli had picked what we wanted, should have been done in private ;-)

Plus I am going so would rather it hot than rain :-D

[Hornet]

passive already? :-) i think what matters most if we are able to make a big step forward with the upgrades, regardless if it rains or not. although we cant see the full difference in improvement if it is wet, but a win is never impossible if we've improved big enough
You have a point. Its just that looking our last wet race, we tend to be very unlucky, tires at the wrong time, getting bump off the track :-P

[scuderiafan]

yeah, why is it that whenever Alonso has a bump in a wet race, Button wins?

[Ferrari2183]

Because Button is the one doing the bumping... Australia 2010 and Canada 2011.

[scuderiafan]

Because Button is the one doing the bumping... Australia 2010 and Canada 2011.

:lol :-s

so keep away from button, and it will be fine.

[sagi58]

Plus I am going so would rather it hot than rain :-D Aha! A method to the madness!:lol
Enjoy!! ;-)

[Stormsearcher]

Hot, would mean the hard's heat up quicker and with our new suspension we might well enjoy them now :-) that's the challenge of competition. Ferrari probably should not have made any public comments about the tyre issue, as it just clouds things if Pirelli had picked what we wanted, should have been done in private ;-)

Plus I am going so would rather it hot than rain :-D

Hot-- india style, will do just fine.:-D Dunno if UK gets that hot.
I hope u are right about our new suspension. Secretly i am hoping our new suspension will actually make us good on the hards.

I am fully for the hard option for the indian race, otherwise the dam thing is going to melt in delhi october heat.

[bladeswing]

You have a point. Its just that looking our last wet race, we tend to be very unlucky, tires at the wrong time, getting bump off the track :-P

oh true. maybe this time we'll do the bumping and winning for a change eh? :)