FIA = Facepalm

[scuderiafan]

Adam Cooper

One team source tells me that today the FIA ruling changed from 10% throttle to 68%, which he says is 'close to full cold blowing'

so, we wont be seeing anything different, actually. the fia are just making fools of everyone, especially themselves.

seems like RedBull convinced them to stop this, probably on 'reliabilty grounds'

:doh :doh

http://twitter.com/#!/adamcooperf1

[Kingdom Hearts]

Rule change of the day, 365 days, 365 rule changes.

[scuderiafan]

and it seems that is what martin and Stefano were talking about. Martin said that 'they' (probably RedBull) were still doing this.

and Martin Whitmarsh:


"The rules are slightly fluid and seem to change by the hour at the moment..."

[scuderiafan]

dont expect much of a change in the pecking order. actually, expect McLaren and mercedes to be owned. first time im unhappy about that. these people look stupider by the minute.

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=IE8Activity&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.auto-motor-und-sport.de%2Fformel-1%2Feklat-im-auspuffkrieg-sonderbehandlung-fuer-red-bull-3892402.html

in a nutshell, Renault are allowewd their crazy stuff, because they are unreliable without it, yet mercedes are not allowed theirs. dont know how Ferrari stack up, probably not much difference for us.

[Kyss4k]

so, we wont be seeing anything different, actually. the fia are just making fools of everyone, especially themselves.

seems like RedBull convinced them to stop this, probably on 'reliabilty grounds'

:doh :doh

http://twitter.com/#!/adamcooperf1

He is kidding right? If not and RedBull (Renault) has won with their crying technique again they are officially the most *d up team in history of F1. How could they race without the off throttle EBD that now they can't?

[M.K]

How is this possible? What the F***, really this is what happening? I think Maccas and Ferrari have to protest quick, some drink company making rules now?

[Hornet]

What the... That is just ******** (avoid this word, please-TSN Mod)

How can the FIA allow the Renault to run at 68% and then a different set of rules at 10% for others?

Might as well end the season now and hand RB their trophies

[Hermann]

What the... That is just retarded

How can the FIA allow the Renault to run at 68% and then a different set of rules at 10% for others?

Might as well end the season now and hand RB their trophies

I said that after the 3rd race. People just don't believe me, no matter how many times i have been right. A prophet has no honor in his own country....

[ferrari4life]

i really doubt that the FIA with its history of stupid decisions are going to get away with allowing renault engines 68% while forcing Mercedes to go to 10%.. you are talking a lawsuit of epic propositions here.

[ferrari4life]

i will also turn not watch the rest of the weekend in protest. Because this is absurd

[scuderiafan]

apparently, Renault managed to show them that they need it, by showing proof from 2009. so they let them carry on, even when apparently they only used it once or twice in 09.

i feel for Merc. dont know it will affect Ferrari. hope it wont too much.

[M.K]

@AdamCooper
FIA press conference turning into heated Horner v Whitmarsh debate. Seconds away, round one!

[scuderiafan]

@AdamCooper
FIA press conference turning into heated Horner v Whitmarsh debate. Seconds away, round one!

:lol handbags!! would love to see the transcript there. hope it will be on youtube.

[M.K]

it means RBR can use it too?

[M.K]

:lol handbags!! would love to see the transcript there. hope it will be on youtube.
@AdamCooper
Tony Fernandes on Horner v Whitmarsh: "I don't understand anything these two just said..."

:-D

[NJB13]

There is no decision the FiA could come up with that would surprise me

[Kyss4k]

apparently, Renault managed to show them that they need it, by showing proof from 2009. so they let them carry on, even when apparently they only used it once or twice in 09.

i feel for Merc. dont know it will affect Ferrari. hope it wont too much.

OK, I am not clever from this now. Renault engined cars will go with 68%, Mercedes powered cars with 10%. But what about Ferrari and CW? 10% too?

[scuderiafan]

@AdamCooper
Tony Fernandes on Horner v Whitmarsh: "I don't understand anything these two just said..."

:-D

this will be up on youtube soon! :lol

could be as epic as trulli vs sutil


OK, I am not clever from this now. Renault engined cars will go with 68%, Mercedes powered cars with 10%. But what about Ferrari and CW? 10% too?

dont really know. i mean, Ferrari didnt have that great a system anways, did they? but am in the dark, as stefano hasnt said anything yet.

[RockyRaccoon]

Farce. I am not watching unless this is changed, there should be equality for all teams.

[burak karakutuk]

When will they declare it on official website?

[ferrari4life]

Farce. I am not watching unless this is changed, there should be equality for all teams.

Me too. i refuse to turn the race on. i am done with this sport. If this is the case I will never watch it again

[hogo]

I think Maccas and Ferrari have to protest quick, some drink company making rules now?
This, or all hope is lost for the rest of the season. I mean who the hell wants to watch predictable Quali and slightly less predictable race? Not me.

[Hornet]

Well, we have our own engine, but why Mercedes are not allowed?
If they cannot show whatever trick Renault did, and Ferrari can't either, then we might end up on the same boat with Mercedes.

At the moment, its like they are keeping the rule, but make a special exception for Renault. FIA must be sick in the head.

[burak karakutuk]

No equality,no stability,no rationality.One thing i am sure it is just lobbying,poor Renault and his puppet Fia

[Hermann]

Me too. i refuse to turn the race on. i am done with this sport. If this is the case I will never watch it again

Waot- does that mean until now, you still believed F1 is a 'sport'? :-E

[scuderiafan]

now, Stefano. i love this guy, but maybe his missus not so much? :lol ;-)


#Ferrari Domenicali to #McLaren Whitmarsh in #F1 P2 re; #redbull blown diffuser. "The ******* are doing it again"


https://twitter.com/#!/F1Photographer

[M.K]

How far I understand from twitter posts FIA allowed Renault engines 50% use, while others have limited 10 %

[F1bob]

So Renault not only got to make modifications to their engines for 'reliability's sake' a few years ago (and all of a sudden weren't as slow as they had been previously despite the engine freeze) but have now also been given what is effectively a separate rules sheet to suit their engines? What's next, weight penalties for the non-Renault cars?

Gosh, that's pathetic. As far as I'm concerned the rules should be the same for everyone - if Renault can't run "fired overrun" for reliability purposes, that's their fault and Red Bull should negotiate with a different engine supplier after their contract has elapsed. Until then, tough luck really - nobody forced Red Bull, Lotus or LR to take the Renault engine.

One of the most eagerly anticipated seasons in the history of F1 has become one of the farcical and disappointing seasons in the history of F1.

[scuderiafan]

it seems now that Mercedes are also allowed to use their maps.

still no news from Ferrari.

http://twitter.com/#!/scarbsf1

[ferrari4life]

it seems now that Mercedes are also allowed to use their maps.

still no news from Ferrari.

so what the hell was the point of this whole saga...what a stupid deal. i have seen some other stupid decisions by the FIA but this one pushes me off the edge.

[Hornet]

it seems now that Mercedes are also allowed to use their maps.

still no news from Ferrari.
If that's the case, then surely Ferrari would be allow to do the same.
It would be ridiculous to set different rules for different team.

Still, the FIA now looks like an idiot for RB and Renault, bending over backwards for them.

[RockyRaccoon]

@ScarbsF1 It seems both Renault & Mercedes have been givin dispensations on the 10% off-throttle ban.
@ScarbsF1 Each ran these maps pre-EBD, have been allowed to retain them, Renault 50% open throttle, Mercedes fired overrun (hot blowing)
@ScarbsF1 that is Renault Sport and Mercedes HPE, the engine suppliers not the teams.

What about Ferrari and Cosworth?

[hogo]

so what the hell was the point of this whole saga...what a stupid deal. i have seen some other stupid decisions by the FIA but this one pushes me off the edge.
Indeed. Providing false hope for the fans and now they are bailing out cos couldn't handle RB tears. What a disgrace!

It seems that titles this year will be even more tainted than they were in 2009. I'm sick of this.

[scuderiafan]

now it seems the whole rule will be overturned.

HRT and Virgin will be pi****

http://twitter.com/#!/RealSimonB

[Hermann]

RealSimonB Simon B
They'll change the rules back to allow EBD!!


:haha:

[Forzi]

On brighter news, Lewis Hamilton has finally shaved his beard for this weekends race. :-)

Someone finally told him that he looked like a douche :-P

[Hornet]

This is really stupid.

Wonder if the teams can still protest as they could earlier on.

[M.K]

Why don't we make some super engine who is 2 sec faster per lap and when FIA starts protesting just say that we would have reliability issues...

[scuderiafan]

btw guys do you think the thread title is apt? :lol :-G

okay, now the limit has increased from 10% to 50% for everything. a compromise, but still stupid.

oh yeah, this is from Lobato Spanish TV twitter.

[Stormsearcher]

Is this thread even real? I dont see it on any website yet.

[Hornet]

Is this thread even real? I dont see it on any website yet.

Check those twitter links. They are being reported by those journalist as it unfolds

[Corey]

Is this thread even real? I dont see it on any website yet.

Me thinks the same too. But if this IS true, the thread title still stands. No matter who benefits from it, and who doesn't.

[Hermann]

Is this thread even real? I dont see it on any website yet.

Yes it is, and it was hilarious to follow the various twitters. I wish we had a video from the press conference! I would live to see Domenicali swearing lol

[Kyss4k]

Google translate:
Charlie Whiting: "If the pilot is not worth the gas, so we say that the gas may be at 12 000 rpm at 10 percent open, and at 18 000 rpm at 20 percent. One engine manufacturer calls for something more. We will look at the data and records from 2009 - if need be at 18 000 rpm 28 percent, it is perfectly legitimate request"

So that means that if in 2009 with the same engines they needed 28% today they need 50%... This is legitimate? :-E

[Hermann]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/53946000/jpg/_53946464_53946463.jpg

[Ferrari Man]

What is goin on??????

[Hermann]

What is goin on??????

Big FIA party. All drunk.

[Salvador Dali]

Well I don't blame the engine makers for pushing the limits, but I blame the FIA for not checking what is actually possible. I mean what HRT asked was legitime and FIA gave an answer but now after what 3 races they see it differently!?

FIA please just check first (maybe 4 times whit the teams and engine makers) and then make it public. If this debate was made behind closed doors and we found out about it the last minute it wouldn't change much but it would make the sport and FIA credibile...

I guess the FIA is pulling every string they can to keep Renault in the sport and I don't blame them as we need as many engine makers as we can get. And Renault is just taking advantage of the situation as did Ferrari a couple of times in the past and present...

Nothing new but next time just shout up until you know it is going to work!

[Ferrari Man]

Big FIA party. All drunk.

Ah here and i wasn't invited... Is the ban not goin ahead now???

[ferrari4life]

WHY THE HELL IS FERRARI not involved in this talks at all.. where the hell do we stand

[Kyss4k]

WHY THE HELL IS FERRARI not involved in this talks at all.. where the hell do we stand

I don't understand that either... Ferrari needs to do everything possible to lower the gap and letting Bulls and FIA cooperate is not the right way :-??

[burak karakutuk]

Ferrar is not strong in lobi lobbying as old days.Generally we decide on to be quiet,waiting with a mystery.Why Stefano have not said a word yet?Maybe we should leave Fota and take management of Formula 1 again.Or another way is exist ; sack this Renault and Redbull,fire them from Fota

[Forzi]

Let's keep our heads cool for now. I'm sure Ferrari is not sitting silently with their heads down. Let's just wait for the official news which i'm sure wont take loong to come out.

[Forzi]

Some official news:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns23398.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=grandprixdotcom
http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3213/7028732/Whitmarsh-Horner-clash-over-regulations?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Hornet]

BBC already has an article about the discussion that went on between those two guys from McLaren and RB
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/14076892.stm

Still no word on what's the final decision yet

[scuderiafan]

Ferrari did.

i'll provide a link, as it cant be said here.

https://twitter.com/#!/F1Photographer/status/89342929189085184

also, interesting article.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/14076892.stm

[Forzi]

F1Lite: "Ferrari have changed their official team name, removing the Marlboro bit after complaints. They're now just called "Scuderia Ferrari" "

[Hermann]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92941



Red Bull gets 11th-hour boost over blown diffusers
By Jonathan Noble Friday, July 8th 2011, 16:58 GMT

Red Bull gets 11th-hour diffuser boost Red Bull Racing has been handed a late boost in its hopes of minimising the performance loss caused by the ban on the off-throttle use of blown diffusers, after the FIA agreed to an 11th-hour concession on how it uses its Renault power unit.

Getting more confusing the minute. I think they are doing this on purpose so that F1 fans just give up even thinking about it.

[Hornet]

I think this is the root of the whole problem.

Renault and Red Bull had objected to a decision by the FIA to allow Mercedes to introduce fuel on the over-run - when the engine is being used for braking.

Although the engine is reduced to running on only four of its eight cylinders at this point, this will inevitably lead to some blowing of the diffuser, and therefore the creation of some downforce.

Renault, by contrast, does not fuel its engine on the over-run and argued that it should be allowed to compensate by opening the throttles to a specific amount, something it says it has always done to ensure reliability.

This is why so far Ferrari has not been part of this. The problem is down to how their engines works

[Hermann]

FIA technical delegate Charlie Whiting is meeting with the engine manufacturers tonight to discuss the situation.

Can't wait for the outcome.

[scuderiafan]

that article says that before the ban RedBull were only ever using 45%. now, FIA are 'limiting' it to 50%, trying to show some power.

:haha: so, they have actually let RB have some more off throttle.

this guy could do a better job:

http://carlosnightman.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/jim-carrey-dumb-dumber-c10102378.jpg

[ferrari4life]

I think this is the root of the whole problem.


This is why so far Ferrari has not been part of this. The problem is down to how their engines works

so how does Ferrari's engine work?

Also if renault says that merc gets an advantage by running a hot 10% blow.. they why dont you stop that as well instead of saying that renault can do a cold 50% blow.
If the whole point that the rule was brought in was because hot or cold blowing off throttle was illegal then allowing it to any extent is still illegal.

[Hermann]

Wait, does it mean RB is getting an even bigger advantage while all others will be slowed down? I mean, every time when you think it can't get worse...

[ferrari4life]

so how does Ferrari's engine work?

Also if renault says that merc gets an advantage by running a hot 10% blow.. they why dont you stop that as well instead of saying that renault can do a cold 50% blow.
If the whole point that the rule was brought in was because hot or cold blowing off throttle was illegal then allowing it to any extent is still illegal.

and for that matter if why cant the FIA stick to the guns and say we allowed 10% so deal with it. not really our problem that you choose to do it hot or cold

[Ferrarichamp]

From a championship point of view, its pretty irrelevant for Ferrari. We should concentrate on next year.

[Forzi]

this is just pathetic work from FIA

Even Kimi would be disapointed
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2278/5031959mc6.jpg

[scuderiafan]

i wonder if this ban is completely overturned, or it is the sam scenario as before, where you can protest, and the rest of teams are diqualified.

if you can protest, i seriously hope Ferrari do. it might let them back in the title aswell! :lol

[Hornet]

so how does Ferrari's engine work?

Also if renault says that merc gets an advantage by running a hot 10% blow.. they why dont you stop that as well instead of saying that renault can do a cold 50% blow.
If the whole point that the rule was brought in was because hot or cold blowing off throttle was illegal then allowing it to any extent is still illegal.

Its down to whether the engines are required to do certain thing when they are off throttle, so it seems Merc got FIA permission to do that over-run thing (whatever it is I don't understand:-G), Renault was unhappy and so the wanted to do their own throttle thing, arguing that they too need to do it as their engine requires it, they got the permission as well, and so start the argument over who's getting an advantage

Ferrari has been silent on this matter so far, so for now, we can only assume Ferrari did not make any special request to the FIA to do certain thing in the engine while off throttle.:Hmm

[Kyss4k]

Can't wait for the outcome.

X race Ban for RedBull for cheating! :pray

[ferrari4life]

Its down to whether the engines are required to do certain thing when they are off throttle, so it seems Merc got FIA permission to do that over-run thing (whatever it is I don't understand:-G), Renault was unhappy and so the wanted to do their own throttle thing, arguing that they too need to do it as their engine requires it, they got the permission as well, and so start the argument over who's getting an advantage

Ferrari has been silent on this matter so far, so for now, we can only assume Ferrari did not make any special request to the FIA to do certain thing in the engine while off throttle.:Hmm

i would like to say that we have a trick up our sleeve but with our recent track record of being out-engineered we are probably sitting around scratching our heads trying to figure out what the rules mean

[Hermann]

X race Ban for RedBull for cheating! :pray

I have bad news for you. The easter bunny does not exist. Not does Santa Claus.

[sagi58]

...Ferrari has been silent on this matter so far, so for now, we can only assume Ferrari did not make any special request to the FIA to do certain thing in the engine while off throttle.:Hmm What about McLaren? They don't seem to have made a special request;
but, it's Whitmarsh making the most noise!!:-??

Edited: ooops!!! Mea culpa!! I'd forgotten that McLaren's engine
is actually Mercedes-powered!! (didn't they "break up"??)
__________________________________________________ ___________________


btw guys do you think the thread title is apt? :lol :-G Ab-so-freaking-lute-ly!!
Mind you, ping pong balls come to mind, too!! :lol

__________________________________________________ ___________________

p.s. Hermann... Santa DOES so exist!!!

[ferrari4life]

the feeling i am getting from all this was that Red-Bull were about to be whipped and left for the buzzards this race but they have somehome managed to pull a rabbit out of a hat.

[Forzi]

the feeling i am getting from all this was that Red-Bull were about to be whipped and left for the buzzards this race but they have somehome managed to pull a rabbit out of a hat.

This makes me puke... :-s

They were the ones that had to be weakened, but now it seems that McLaren, Mercedes, RedBull, Renault will be gaining speed, while we will drop... This is just sickening...

[scuderiafan]

the feeling i am getting from all this was that Red-Bull were about to be whipped and left for the buzzards this race but they have somehome managed to pull a rabbit out of a hat.

yeah, me too. i thought they were having us on, but they really might have been in the ****.

[Ken]

This just shows the FIA's total lack of understanding of their own rule book and its main purpose.

The rules are there govern the "Standards that are governable " ie wheel base, engine size in terms of volume , tyres, strength of the chassis, adequate protection for the driver, etc standards that must be held to keep racing safe.

But to disallow good ingenuity and design, that gives performance within those rules should not be changed during a season.
If they feel that one teams designer has made an ingenious solution within the rules that gives that team an advantage, its not for them to decide mid season they can not allow that, its up to other teams to design and catch up, ( that solution only has a lifetime of one year before everyone else has it on their cars ). The best designers deserve their day in the sun and the team for implementing a successful ideaIsn't that what F1 is all about ?

The FIA is meddling way too much in some deluded way that they can keep all teams machinery equal. If thats their aim then they should lay down their preferred design in all regards and all teams build that car and engine. RIP F1

The only time the FIA should be influencing design parameters is when a development puts the driver of that car in danger or may be dangerous to other drivers or their cars on the track. The FIA should get back to doing that which it was set up for to draw up the standards and specifications for car design and police those rules stringently.

At the moment they are showing the F1 fraternity fans and teams they are wholly inadequate at the task. Making Knee jerk decisions that help some teams and hinder others is a form of RACE FIXING in which they should be seen not to be involved in.

Join me in this flame if you wish.

[scuderiafan]

This just shows the FIA's total lack of understanding of their own rule book and its main purpose.

The rules are there govern the "Standards that are governable " ie wheel base, engine size in terms of volume , tyres, strength of the chassis, adequate protection for the driver, etc standards that must be held to keep racing safe.

But to disallow good ingenuity and design, that gives performance within those rules should not be changed during a season.
If they feel that one teams designer has made an ingenious solution within the rules that gives that team an advantage, its not for them to decide mid season they can not allow that, its up to other teams to design and catch up, ( that solution only has a lifetime of one year before everyone else has it on their cars ). The best designers deserve their day in the sun and the team for implementing a successful ideaIsn't that what F1 is all about ?

The FIA is meddling way too much in some deluded way that they can keep all teams machinery equal. If thats their aim then they should lay down their preferred design in all regards and all teams build that car and engine. RIP F1

The only time the FIA should be influencing design parameters is when a development puts the driver of that car in danger or may be dangerous to other drivers or their cars on the track. The FIA should get back to doing that which it was set up for to draw up the standards and specifications for car design and police those rules stringently.

At the moment they are showing the F1 fraternity fans and teams they are wholly inadequate at the task. Making Knee jerk decisions that help some teams and hinder others is a form of RACE FIXING in which they should be seen not to be involved in.

Join me in this flame if you wish.

completely agree. it seems they are out of their depth, and dont really understand this stuff more than we do.

[Forzi]

FIA should just admit being stupid and lift the ban. If they wont take the responsibility, then this will ruin the championship and create a big hole in the role book which will effect future seasons. Many teams will have to remake their eingines which will cost dearly. I just cant beleave how stupid FIA is acting...

[scuderiafan]

This makes me puke... :-s

They were the ones that had to be weakened, but now it seems that McLaren, Mercedes, RedBull, Renault will be gaining speed, while we will drop... This is just sickening...

dont morry mate. if that is true, they will have to protest, as this is a farce. otherwise, they are in the same boat as the Mercedes teams.

cant wait for their statement on this.

Also,

if you can pay, it apparently says that McLaren and Ferrari ran their exhausts with 50% like renault, only with hot blowing rather than the renault way, as a protest.

http://plus.autosport.com/premium/feature/3665/why-red-bull-has-had-a-diffuser-boost/

[Hermann]

AUTOSPORT understands that as a protest against the FIA concession on the Renault engine, both McLaren and Ferrari ran their engines in Friday FP2 with the same 50 per cent throttle openings as Renault. This argument could run for some time yet.

From the premium section of autosport.

[REDARMYSOJA]

The other teams should just park their cars and tell Charlie the fans can watch the two Red Bull Cars race each other. This is total BS.

[Grillo]

Can't wait for the outcome.

I think we all know the outcome, I'm afraid.

[ferrari4life]

how can you argue that one team should use 10% open throttle and the other 50...its either one way or the other. Can you say that ferrari is allowed to have more flex in their wing since they are using a different material to make it from other teams?

I hope Ferrari protest this and this comes to a head because i am annoyed by this back and forth. This was supposed to be banned 3-4 races ago until red-bull complained. Maybe its time that the FIA do its job and throw the rule book at them. After all they were quick to ban our rear wing a few races ago.. I have not been so mad about this sport than when the DD were allowed.

[Grillo]

The other teams should just park their cars and tell Charlie the fans can watch the two Red Bull Cars race each other. This is total BS.

I agree, mate. Many teams might have thrown out the development of off-throttle EBD and now it's still there, they won't be able to use it so it in fact will damage some teams just to make happy others.

I'll have a refreshment as a protest. FFS!!!

[Tony]

The FIA will probably rule to allow the renault engine based teams to use this practice until the under of the year but that next year it will be banned.... doesn't the engine freeze come to an end at the end of this year anyway?

[zuludemon]

I think people are losing perspective.

The original TD sent out stated clearly no fuelling when off throttle and when engine speed above 12krpm and car speed above 60 kph...

The merc teams have always been scrambling for fired overrun - something which was clearly not permitted in the original TD

It also stated 10% throttle at 12krpm to 20% throttle at 18krpm.

The problem is that is not equitable across all engines due to throttle technologies used (butterfly, barrel, slide... etc)

So the merc teams asked for fired overrun (still maintaining the 10-20%) which they got... Therefore handicapping all the other teams who had no fired overrun.

So renault teams asked, in retaliation, for an increase in throttle opening because they dont use firing on overrun...

I can not comment on how these 2 strategies equate to each other - nor will I. Basically the FIA have backed themselves into a corner and they dont know how to get out of it (my opinion of course)

There are of course many opinions from fans/media alike and of course everyone looks at it being unfair blah blah but it is never going to be equal.

Why should any manufacturer have to operate their engine the way another engine manufacturer operates? They shouldnt.. so there never will be a winner and all that is happening is the FIA and ultimately by association F1 are looking more and more stupid by the day.

[crewskas]

A) We don't care what reliability problems Renault engines have. They knew it more than a month and they should inform FIA to allow them to modify their engines to comply to the rules.

B) If Renault is unable to have reliable engines under the 10% rule, then force all the Renault engined teams to put their exhausts where they were before 2010.

It is absolutely ridiculous to have different rules for different teams.
Ferrari had reliability problems last year but asked for permission to change some parts of the engine...!
Didn't cry anywhere...


And what if other teams brought updates to their cars (and that's Ferrari) in Silverstone with their mind to the ban, that now looks to be taken back???
These updates either will not work, or even worsen the speed...!

If Ferrari officially protests and nothing happened, I really prefer to see the red cars to stay in the garage for both Saturday and Sunday... :furious
And I mean it...

[zuludemon]

A) We don't care what reliability problems Renault engines have. They knew it more than a month and they should inform FIA to allow them to modify their engines to comply to the rules.

B) If Renault is unable to have reliable engines under the 10% rule, then force all the Renault engined teams to put their exhausts where they were before 2010.

It is absolutely ridiculous to have different rules for different teams.
Ferrari had reliability problems last year but asked for permission to change some parts of the engine...!
Didn't cry anywhere...


And what if other teams brought updates to their cars (and that's Ferrari) in Silverstone with their mind to the ban, that now looks to be taken back???
These updates either will not work, or even worsen the speed...!

If Ferrari officially protests and nothing happened, I really prefer to see the red cars to stay in the garage for both Saturday and Sunday... :furious
And I mean it...

The same can be said for Ferrari and Merc - Renault engine teams dont care if they need fired overrun - they have had the same time to engineer it out and they havent.

All in all its a proper gooey mess!

Also - I havent seen any correspondence from the FIA allowing any teams to modify engines to fix reliability issues created by the TD(s)

All teams use overrun strategies for reliability purposes

[crewskas]

Proper mess or not,
Renault should inform about it long ago, than waiting Silverstone's Friday when other teams have updates regarding the ban...

[Ken]

It is really sad that this issue is spoiling one of the oldest and most respected races of the year. For us Brits it is a crime.

[zuludemon]

Proper mess or not,
Renault should inform about it long ago, than waiting Silverstone's Friday when other teams have updates regarding the ban...

Its Merc thats kicked it all off asking for fired overrun....
You cant change it for one team and then expect the other teams to go ok...

[sagi58]

Just as an aside:

Wasn't in-season testing banned because teams supposed to be reducing their costs?
How can they do that when the rules are changed mid-season forcing them to scramble
to get their cars up to snuff?

[siberianlady]

Fed up with F1 totally now.....as a non techi person what chance do you have? Sorry off to NASCAR. Fed up with this so called "show"

[crewskas]

Its Merc thats kicked it all off asking for fired overrun....
You cant change it for one team and then expect the other teams to go ok...

Do Ferrari and Cosworth asked for fired overrun or anything else also?
Because if not, then again it's their problem...

[zuludemon]

Do Ferrari and Cosworth asked for fired overrun or anything else also?
Because if not, then again it's their problem...

You would have to ask them that - Ferrari, as far as I know, use fired overrun for engine reliability reasons.

I believe its a crankcase pressure/blowby reason - so they may well of asked for something.

[crewskas]

Even if just Coswort didn't asked for any exception though, the rule should stand as it was announced and all the others to adapt...

I don't know either what other engine suppliers did, but even if all teams still keep the system as was before, still is not enough.
Teams have brought updates regarding this issue...

[Stormsearcher]

This sucks big time.
Why dont RBR instead ask the FIA to present the 2011 championship trophy to vettel this weekend instead. Atleast let the misery end.

There should be a serious boycott. Its time FIA picked up its socks. :furious

[zuludemon]

Even if just Coswort didn't asked for any exception though, the rule should stand as it was announced and all the others to adapt...

I don't know either what other engine suppliers did, but even if all teams still keep the system as was before, still is not enough.
Teams have brought updates regarding this issue...

I agree that teams have invested time/money etc in updates - thats every team not just Ferrari - and the only ones to blame are the FIA.

Like I said before - everyone is up in arms at Renault when the root cause really is Merc who initiated all the concessions with the fired overrun.

What the FIA should of done is left it until next year - something which most teams asked for in the TWG meetings.

[crewskas]

From what I read in James Allen though, Merc didn't asked for any permission to let them use their overrun.
It was Renault that said Merc will have an advantage with their system...

Who cares???
Renault should inform FIA more than a month ago...!

[sagi58]

I don't think the issue is who asked for what first!
The issue is the FIA not taking a stand and insisting
that ALL teams follow the SAME rule. PERIOD.

[zuludemon]

I can tell you for fact merc teams asked for fired overrun

And Renault teams did talk to the fia, but the fia chose to ignore it all hoping it would all go away
But of course it didn't!




From what I read in James Allen though, Merc didn't asked for any permission to let them use their overrun.
It was Renault that said Merc will have an advantage with their system...

Who cares???
Renault should inform FIA more than a month ago...!

[zuludemon]

I don't think the issue is who asked for what first!
The issue is the FIA not taking a stand and insisting
that ALL teams follow the SAME rule. PERIOD.

Yep but they are incapable or incompetent...

Don't blame the teams... I've said from the beginning it's the FIAs fault
Oh well

[Ferrari Man]

When are we due a word on this ******* disaster??

[Grillo]

Why did the FIA decided to change the rules in the first place? I guess it was because they were absolutely sure that the off-throttle EBD was illegal, right? So now there will be cars running an illegal system, how can anybody explain that?

What are they going to say to those teams that have been working for a Silverstone upgrade having in mind the new rules?

[crewskas]

I can tell you for fact merc teams asked for fired overrun

And Renault teams did talk to the fia, but the fia chose to ignore it all hoping it would all go away
But of course it didn't!

You have any source about Merc on this?
If yes, when they asked for it?
Maybe Allen wrote it too briefly on his article I don't know...
But if it stands as it is on JA, then it's Renault's fault...

[zuludemon]

You have any source about Merc on this?
If yes, when they asked for it?
Maybe Allen wrote it too briefly on his article I don't know...
But if it stands as it is on JA, then it's Renault's fault...

Sources I cannot share unfortunately. If I find anything in the media I will post.

They asked for fired overrun at the last twg meeting

[crewskas]

Which was when?

[REDARMYSOJA]

Sources I cannot share unfortunately. If I find anything in the media I will post.

They asked for fired overrun at the last twg meeting

I've heard that as well, but until we can all read it ourselves, it just more rumor and not fact.

[scuderiafan]

Now, Hamilton and Charlie had a blowout after McLaren protested by fielding an illegal car in FP2.

wth???? :-E

EDIT sorry, here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2011/07/new_engine_rules_power_f1s_lat.html

[zuludemon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2011/07/new_engine_rules_power_f1s_lat.html

Says merc asked for fired overrun

[REDARMYSOJA]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2011/07/new_engine_rules_power_f1s_lat.html

Says merc asked for fired overrun

Doesn't really say they asked for it. If they did it was to no avail apparently as they weren't allowed the 50% Renault engines were.

[crewskas]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2011/07/new_engine_rules_power_f1s_lat.html

Says merc asked for fired overrun


(When they asked for it?)
Well that's not something official I think.
It's an article written by a journo, like JA says the opposite...

Anyway, I don't know, I don't care, if just one simple engine maker didn't asked for a permission, then all the others should ask about it, a lot earlier and to adapt to the rules, or let their engines burn. We missed that.
End of story.

[Ferrari Man]

The FIA banned this a month ago to take effect this week . If they had any balls they'd enforce the ban completely across the board and so what if certain teams had reliability issues... It's up to the teams to get over it and solve their problem move on. This is sickenin...

[Hermann]

From Lobato's twitter:

alobatof1 Antonio Lobato
No hay conclusiones de la reunion. Solo dudas. Charlie Whiting tiene q decidir q se hace mañana: 50%, 10%... 100%, 1,346678%


In english:


No resolution decided at the end of the meeting. Only questions. Charlie Whiting has until tomorrow to decide whether it will be 50%, 10% ... 100%, 1.346678%

[NanoTheQuickest]

Keep the red cars in the garage for the weekend and send the boys to the pub. This all thing is a serious joke!

[Ferrari Man]

Keep the red cars in the garage for the weekend and send the boys to the pub. This all thing is a serious joke!

Unbelievable.......

[ferrari4life]

Unbelievable.......

i kind of agree with the guy. this is too much of a farce. someone needs to protest. whats the point of all this saga.

[Forzi]

This is just simply to idiotic to be true. If this will continue and the race will start with the grid divided to allowed/semi-allowed/forbiden this sport will officially be over. I'm 100% sure that this will not go down quietly. I just can't imagine Luca and Domenicali siting this one out and letting this circus continue. I think this will come down to a team strike :-??

All of this even happening makes me sick. Going to bed early today, hope for a better tomorrow with this whole crap fixed :-s Good night everyone...

[Brakefade]

If CW goes through with allowing Merc 10% hot blowing, and RBR 50% cold blowing, then Ferrari should protest by sending out two Fiat 500s out there instead.

[SilverSpeed]

Man this is so lame...

Dirty air blowing cheats!

[Brakefade]

Is there any way we can start some sort of thing where people sign on saying they will not recognize any Renault or Merc powered driver as the WDC if this reg change goes on?

[epiclyaddicted]

Now, Hamilton and Charlie had a blowout after McLaren protested by fielding an illegal car in FP2.

wth???? :-E

EDIT sorry, here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2011/07/new_engine_rules_power_f1s_lat.html

I'm sure I read on twitter somewhere that Ferrari also ran an illegal car in FP2, i.e. with 50% throttle, in protest.

[chris.gotfunk]

I personally think Ferrari should go out there with a DDD, 80% blown exhaust, movable front wing, flexible front wing, bridgestone softs, a V12 engine.. AND refuel mid-race. I am actually sick to my stomach over this.

I know our guys were closer to the RB's, but I feel it is not worth fighting this year. Hey, if anything, let's use the rest of this years' FP's and races to "test" our car for next year.

[scuderiafan]

I personally think Ferrari should go out there with a DDD, 80% blown exhaust, movable front wing, flexible front wing, bridgestone softs, a V12 engine.. AND refuel mid-race. I am actually sick to my stomach over this.

I know our guys were closer to the RB's, but I feel it is not worth fighting this year. Hey, if anything, let's use the rest of this years' FP's and races to "test" our car for next year.

lets use Fiorano now. and if FIA get angry, just say constant testing improves reliability. ;-)

[crewskas]

Is it going to be a final decision tonight?
Or it will be tomorrow?
By the way, it's really unbelievable that one guy, one guy only decides what is legal and what is not...
They should have a group of mechanics to do so...

[scuderiafan]

Is it going to be a final decision tonight?
Or it will be tomorrow?
By the way, it's really unbelievable that one guy, one guy only decides what is legal and what is not...
They should have a group of mechanics to do so...

tomorrow morning.

[chris.gotfunk]

lets use Fiorano now. and if FIA get angry, just say constant testing improves reliability. ;-)

I agree. We have the means to test, this year is shot anyway. I hate to say that because I believe in the ability to come back, but 2011 feels so tainted that it isn't worth it. We can split the money and only send one car to the race and the other half of the money to test the car, this way we are still keeping the costs the same. :roll

[scuderiafan]

I agree. We have the means to test, this year is shot anyway. I hate to say that because I believe in the ability to come back, but 2011 feels so tainted that it isn't worth it. We can split the money and only send one car to the race and the other half of the money to test the car, this way we are still keeping the costs the same. :roll

dont have to. spend as much as we like, then again, we can say the cost help improve reliability. :-D

then we give them some paper from 4 years ago, proving that since Renault were better than Spyker, and Renault spent more money, it must be true.

[luicchi]

I have been reading this farce and I have to say that Ferrari has to take a position. This is unacceptable. It's a slapstick inadmissible. Exceptions?? if there is such an exception then all other requests also have to be met. This is unbelievable.:furious...

[F1NAC]

FIA :

http://fc09.deviantart.com/fs42/f/2009/093/5/9/Double_Facepalm_by_ScotlandForLife.jpg

[Alonsomaniac]

Charlie, it is soooooooooo simple: either you do ban it , or you don't.
If you do, then NO exceptions.
If you think that is impossible, then you don't ban it at all.

[Brakefade]

I hate to say this, but this a time when a big loud-mouth, like Flavio, would come in handy for Ferrari.

[sagi58]

Doesn't seem to be helping McLaren!! :lol

[NJB13]

Red Bull have done a great job getting fans and media from all over to get behind them and support them. IMO, that's their brilliance this year. They break the rules and then get McLaren and Ferrari fans to call them clever. They break the rules and convince the FiA to not enforce them, then when the FiA finally say they are breaking the rules, they convince the FiA to let them keep cheating for reliability reasons.

Red Bull's coupe this year is how they have fans from all sides supporting them.

[Sarcastic Mode On]
"Oh they are so clever, wish we were clever like Red Bull"

"Oh I know the rules are the same, but I'm gonna say they're changing the rules because they are finally talking about enforcing them"
[Sarcastic Mode Off]

All I can say is, lets get out on track this weekend and do some serious Red Bull butt kicking!

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[sagi58]

...lets get out on track this weekend and do some serious Red Bull butt kicking!

Forza Ferrari!!!! :thumb And if we "happen" to kick a few other butts, then all the more cause for celebration!!
:ferrarifl:pass

[Hornet]

I think FIA's mistake was they thought they could easily limit the engines off-throttle without any consequences. Now we're discovering that different engine manufacturer are claiming that their engine have to do this and that for reliability reason, yet these things inevitably contributes to additional performance and the whole thing gets tangled up.

The only solution out of this is to completely ban blown diffuser. Move the exhaust outlet away from the diffuser, and so that way, regardless of what the teams do with their engine during off-throttle, it will not contribute to additional performance.

As for conserving fuel, well, we won't be able to do that overnight. FIA have to give all engine manufactures an early heads up, telling them ok, for your next generation of engines, you are only allow to run them at 10% off-throttle, whatever you do, design them so it works that way. Here, it would be clear and no one can complain that their engine needs to do this and that for reliability reasons.

If the FIA had to do something mid season right now, moving the exhaust was probably a better solution.

[hogo]

So if Ferrari won't protest can they at least turn that 50% mode on and use it till the end of the season? Or will they get banned cos engine is not from Renault and therefore 50% is illegal?

[Hermann]

PeterDWindsor Peter Windsor
I think Charlie Whiting is going to issue a new blown diffuser directive to the teams in the next hour or so

Can't wait to hear it.

[scuderiafan]

Red Bull have done a great job getting fans and media from all over to get behind them and support them. IMO, that's their brilliance this year. They break the rules and then get McLaren and Ferrari fans to call them clever. They break the rules and convince the FiA to not enforce them, then when the FiA finally say they are breaking the rules, they convince the FiA to let them keep cheating for reliability reasons.

Red Bull's coupe this year is how they have fans from all sides supporting them.

[Sarcastic Mode On]
"Oh they are so clever, wish we were clever like Red Bull"

"Oh I know the rules are the same, but I'm gonna say they're changing the rules because they are finally talking about enforcing them"
[Sarcastic Mode Off]

All I can say is, lets get out on track this weekend and do some serious Red Bull butt kicking!

Forza Ferrari!!!!

completely agree. when Ferrari were thought to be cheating, nobody were admiring them. and not many Ferrari fans aplauded McLarens intuition in 09 and 09.

[Ferrarichamp]

FIA :

http://fc09.deviantart.com/fs42/f/2009/093/5/9/Double_Facepalm_by_ScotlandForLife.jpg

Picard looks like Newey :lol

[aj17ay]

Latest:

@andrewbensonf1
Andrew Benson

A directive is issued on engines and blowing. Think it means Merc get their over-run fuelling but Renault not their 50% blowing. More soon

[scuderiafan]

so the tables have been turned? Horner wont be happy about this.

one word: FARCE.

[aj17ay]

Latest:

@andrewbensonf1
Andrew Benson

A clearly angry Christian Horner is heading to talk to Charlie Whiting after decision not to allow Renault the concession they won on Friday

(They didn't get it! :) )

[Rishu]

I'll call it Farce if Vettel still takes Pole.

[Hermann]

:haha:

Getting funnier the minute. I wonder if Charlie will receive some very threatening letters today! Or maybe they will more go for the action and skip the letters...

[aj17ay]

Renault will only be allowed 10% blow. While Mercedes getting the pre-agreed hot blowing!

Thank God for that! :lol

[Brakefade]

So only Merc get hot blowing? That's still not fair, but at least RBR didn't get their way.

[Brakefade]

Why is Horner doing all the talking? Last time I checked RB make drinks, not engines. It should be Renault having the talks with CW. Makes it obvious what Renault/RB's intentions were, and it wasn't "reliabity".

[Stormsearcher]

Renault are the only ones cold blowing. We hot blow too.. which means we get the concession as well? How come we are not makin any noises about this?

[scuderiafan]

so now it is another team with the unfair advantage.

[Rishu]

Do we know where does ferrari engine stand now?

[Hermann]

Why is Horner doing all the talking? Last time I checked RB make drinks, not engines. It should be Renault having the talks with CW. Makes it obvious what Renault/RB's intentions were, and it wasn't "reliabity".

I suppose RB wanted Renault to keep it for 'reliability' because that meant RB would keep it too. At least, that was how i understood the whole discussion.

[scuderiafan]

i think, dont know, but Ferrari may be allowed to do the same thing as Mercedes. not sure though.

[Stormsearcher]

think charlie has allowed us to do anything we want.. including movable wings. Thats why we are so quiet. :-P

[Kingdom Hearts]

Common sense prevailed, now get the pole Ferrari! :)

[Brakefade]

Merc get 10% overrun with only 4 cylinders firing. Maybe a small advantage, but nowhere near the 50% cold blowing RB want. They cold blow at 45% overrun in race trim already, so basically it was a last ditch effort to regain their advantage. I'm glad CW didn't let these clowns pull a fast one on him.

[scuderiafan]

ah, so Merc arent getting any unfair advantage.

[Honzus]

I am glad Ferrari kept silent, now we are not the troublemakers :-D

[Hornet]

Apparently, Horner, Martin, AND Stefano are not at their post at the moment.

This is insane. We're only hours away from quali

[Salvador Dali]

I think we all jumped the gun on this one. Please read the this:

http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/07/08/10-rule-full-analysis/

[epiclyaddicted]

i think, dont know, but Ferrari may be allowed to do the same thing as Mercedes. not sure though.

I think I read yesterday that, with regards to Merc's fired over-run, all teams are allowed to do that. Only the Renault engines are not able to do because of the way they're made, hence they wanted the 50% throttle to compensate for that.

[Hermann]

Apparently, Horner, Martin, AND Stefano are not at their post at the moment.

This is insane. We're only hours away from quali


To be a mouse- "FP3 commentary saying that apparently Charlie is ignoring any pleas for engine changes made after Thursday morning. Mercedes made their request midweek while Renault waited until Thursday/Friday."

Hilarious. Now its about formalities? Reminds me of a trial with Mafia attorney's involved....


http://adamcooperf1.com/2011/07/09/fia-reverts-to-original-exhaust-decision/

[scuderiafan]

FIA guy looking at RB cars, and McLarens.

Webber got an engine problem.

Right, so Merc have just as much overrun as the others. Renault just tried to be cheeky, and just because Merc needed what they got.

and now Horner is crying.

so im not worrying now, that we wont get screwed. but this still has some mileage.

[sagi58]

I think we all jumped the gun on this one. Please read the this:

http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/07/08/10-rule-full-analysis/ Thank you for the link!! Although I'm not "techno"-savvy, I do understand the issue "better"!!:thumb

[Kyss4k]

So what is the situation right now? RedBull 10% of cold blowing while the others 20% of fired overrun?

[crewskas]

That was the best decision they could make...
Even if it can be unfair for Renault, the other way around would be unfair for all the others...

[Hermann]

ScarbsF1 Craig Scarborough
Why is it Christian Horner arguing for Renault with the FIA and not Rob White from Renault Sport?

Good question. Maybe because for Renault it won't make any difference, and it was just RB trying another dirty trick to get their way?

[Brakefade]

Charlie will "reconsider" this for Germany and Hungary. I hope everything goes well in Silverstone, so they leave the rules as they stand now.

[Alonsomaniac]

Ferrari have done wise to keep out of the discussion.

[Brakefade]

Good question. Maybe because for Renault it won't make any difference, and it was just RB trying another dirty trick to get their way?

Basically RB is a one trick pony. And it's not so much that they will lose some, but it's more about keeping Vettel miles of the likes of Alonso and Hamilton. If he has to fight with guys like that he will lose 9 times out of 10.

[Hornet]

Good question. Maybe because for Renault it won't make any difference, and it was just RB trying another dirty trick to get their way?

Exactly. That guy has been so hard at work arguing left and right for an engine that is not even build by his own team.

[Alonsomaniac]

Good question. Maybe because for Renault it won't make any difference, and it was just RB trying another dirty trick to get their way?

Don't know if you can call it a "dirty" trick. To me it sounds quite logical that Horner was trying to get the most out of the situation.

[Hermann]

Basically RB is a one trick pony. And it's not so much that they will lose some, but it's more about keeping Vettel miles of the likes of Alonso and Hamilton. If he has to fight with guys like that he will lose 9 times out of 10.

*sigh* if that means we have been robbed so far of seeing a real battle on track and instead watched a soap opera..this is just sad.


From autosport forum:

"Funny moment when Newey, Horner and that Renault-rep came from the meeting, Newey talking to Horner about the effects of the ruling, and then Horner telling him to stop talking as there's a microphone on the camera!"

And yes, i insist on calling it 'dirty tricks'. I'm not saying nobody else is trying other dirty tricks though. There are more skeletons in some closets, for sure.

[scuderiafan]

Good question. Maybe because for Renault it won't make any difference, and it was just RB trying another dirty trick to get their way?

completely agree. this has not much to do with RB, more to do with their renault engines. other renault teams arent making the fuss, only rb, so it leads me to believe that they are crapping themselves.

[sagi58]

Ferrari have done wise to keep out of the discussion. Too true!!

Of course, there will be "those" who look for a conspiracy!! :lol

[NJB13]

I'm really happy to see how well we've gone in this morning final practice session. But, there is a part of me that is feeling quite irked. This is only one session, and I'll wait to see how the Q and the race turn out, but, if the FiA's deliberate failure to properly interpret and enforce the rules (on overrun) from the start of the season has robbed us of a chance to be competing now for the championships - then I feel damned annoyed and robbed.

Still, if we are good enough, we can do it, even from here.

And, imagine if we win from this far back and this point in the season, it will be a totally legendary come-from-behind win that we will all talk about and savour for many many years to come.

All I can say is.....

Forza Ferrari!

:ferrarifl:pass:ferrarifl

[scuderiafan]

and it rumbles on and on...


James Allen

All team tech people been summoned by FIA for emergency meeting on engine throttle maps. Will ruling change again?

http://twitter.com/#!/jamesallenonf1

[Hermann]

An emergency meeting! Oh really. Which emergency? Is CH threatening now to boycott the race if they don't get their EBD back to dominate qualy like they are used to?

[scuderiafan]

An emergency meeting! Oh really. Which emergency? Is CH threatening now to boycott the race if they don't get their EBD back to dominate qualy like they are used to?

fair enough. hope they call his bluff. would also make the WDC closer. wouldnt mind a redbull boycott :lou

[scuderiafan]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/341763592.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1310209376&Signature=kYoarm%2Fkuc0KLE7VyDxJuP4VaNc%3D

[Jose Lorca]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/341763592.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1310209376&Signature=kYoarm%2Fkuc0KLE7VyDxJuP4VaNc%3D

Domenicali should have a hidden camera with him to record Horner crying

[scuderiafan]

Domenicali should have a hidden camera with him to record Horner crying

:lol i actually loved his line yesterday. that was classic passion.

[MRRabbit]

I sure hope Charlie won't crack under the pressure. ...

[aj17ay]

This weekend, Renault engines will have to blow at 10%. Just updated on the BBC coverage

[Hermann]

This weekend, yes. But RB will move heaven and more hell to get their EBD back. They don't want to 'fight' for another title- they want it handed to them on a silver plate, obviously.

[zike]

So we must push harder for ban to stick

[Ferrarichamp]

what we have to do is build the fastest car with our own innovations.

[ferrari4life]

The FIA really screwed the pooch on this one. If the ruling states that blowing exhaust gases be it cold of hot through the diffuser is illegal then they need to stick with that.
If the engines complain that they need to have this for reliability then tell them to blow it elsewhere other than the diffuser.

[NJB13]

The FIA really screwed the pooch on this one. If the ruling states that blowing exhaust gases be it cold of hot through the diffuser is illegal then they need to stick with that.
If the engines complain that they need to have this for reliability then tell them to blow it elsewhere other than the diffuser.

Agree with all that, and would only add, they should have done this before the first race.

[Hermann]

Agree with all that, and would only add, they should have done this before the first race.

Would have spared us Vettel-pole and wins nonstop. And RB would have had to actually fight for that. Not what they wanted, obviously...

[RockyRaccoon]

Back to Valencia spec after this race apparently! Will that drop us back from Red Bull again I wonder?

[Hermann]

Back to Valencia spec after this race apparently! Will that drop us back from Red Bull again I wonder?

Yep. CH will make sure of that.

[Jose Lorca]

Back to Valencia spec after this race apparently! Will that drop us back from Red Bull again I wonder?

Probably. Not only that, but there goes Mark Webber's chances of beating Vettel.

Without the off-throttle, Vettel get's shown up by Webber. With Mark coping better with the tyres, this was his opportunity to put that arrogant finger boy back in his place... and now the FIA will deny him that opportunity. After all Whiting and Todt had said about why off-throttle was illegal, and now they are giving into the demand of some moaning pillocks? What a farce!

[Hermann]

Since it looks we can't escape...

http://www.the-peoples-forum.com/images/tinfoil_hat_shazam.png

[crewskas]

CW is a chicken...
That's exactly what it is...

Instead of forcing the teams who have a problem to either allow them and change the way their engines work, or modify their exhausts to blow somewhere else than the diffusers, they take back the rule again...!!!

So be it...
I have confidence to Ferrari, that we have caught them either way...
Friday practice they were running with 50% and we were there...!

[NJB13]

Us being within a tenth in Q, at what has to be the best possible track for RB.... I don't think we've caught them, I think we've passed them. Even if they go back to Valencia spec overrun, it wont save RB, we are bound to get a lot more out of our new upgrades.

No bad luck tomorrow and this race is there for us to take :-)

[Ferrari Man]

Us being within a tenth in Q, at what has to be the best possible track for RB.... I don't think we've caught them, I think we've passed them. Even if they go back to Valencia spec overrun, it wont save RB, we are bound to get a lot more out of our new upgrades.

No bad luck tomorrow and this race is there for us to take :-)

I dunno how we l fair out against them bein back at full strength..

[Hermann]

This is not over yet...


andrewbensonf1 Andrew Benson
Teams meeting at 1030 Sunday to further discuss off-throttle blowing and try to reach unanimity on where to go post-silverstone

[Hornet]

I can imagine there would be teams who would not be happy if the FIA turn around and say they can continue using off-throttle mapping. And if Horner has the right to complain, then these smaller teams have the rights to be heard too.

I don't know how the FIA is going to get out of this one.

[Jose Lorca]

This is not over yet...


Teams meeting at 1030 Sunday to further discuss off-throttle blowing and try to reach unanimity on where to go post-silverstone

There is a chance that we will not revert to pre-Silverstone settings:

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2011/Pages/f1-exhausts.aspx


2011 FIA FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP
BRITISH GRAND PRIX

The measures which were communicated to the teams this morning by the FIA Technical Department stand for the rest of the weekend.

During Saturday morning’s Extraordinary Technical Working Group meeting, the members discussed the viability of returning to the pre-Silverstone set-ups and strategies.

If the teams are in unanimous agreement, the FIA is prepared to adopt this arrangement until the end of the current season.


FIA F1 Head of Communications

Will there be a unanimous agreement?

The big winners from the ban are Williams, Sauber and Ferrari - they won't agree pre-Silverstone setups?

[Ferrari Man]

The biggest concern the FIA has i 'd say is the fact they tried to change the regs mid season which is a no go since the regs are set proir to the season so cars are designed to these regs. I dunno tis a tough one to call and no matter what the decision someone is goin to be put out by it..

[Ferrari Man]

Can't see mclaren aggreeing to this now since they 've dropped a longway back..

[Jose Lorca]

Can't see mclaren aggreeing to this now since they 've dropped a longway back..

It's funny because Whitmarsh was the main guy fighting for all teams to have 10% off throttle, and now his team (along with Renault) are the biggest losers. :lol

[Ferrari Man]

It's funny because Whitmarsh was the main guy fighting for all teams to have 10% off throttle, and now his team (along with Renault) are the biggest losers. :lol
ye i was sure merc and macs had somethin up thier sleeves....

[Mrs.Domenicali]

Personally I think the FIA should have left things alone and then clarified/banned the exhaust blowing at the end of the season. As it is they are making a complete debacle out of it, by constantly dithering about and chopping and changing as the mood takes them.

[Hornet]

Personally I think the FIA should have left things alone and then clarified/banned the exhaust blowing at the end of the season. As it is they are making a complete debacle out of it, by constantly dithering about and chopping and changing as the mood takes them.

I do agree with this. Engine is so complicated that its difficult to control the throttle or how they behave and this and that situation. But banning the blown diffuser by moving the exhaust outlet elsewhere is a clean cut case, no one can argue about it.

But now that the FIA went down this path, I don't think they can backtrack. Its going to be tough to come to a solution that everyone agrees too. We have to remember that it was Williams who file a complain that started the whole thing, so I would be surprise if they would agree to reverting back to the old rule.

[Kingdom Hearts]

OK, so it will be blue vs red?.

Reb Bull, McLaren, Mercedes and Renault.

Ferrari, Williams, Force India, Sabuer?


I guess the small teams will decide everything if they do a voting, poll or something.

[da_one]

So, if the FIA is bringing the sport into disrepute, who will sanction them? :-?? Really, the FIA blows (pun intended) big time! :-!

[F1NAC]

OK, so it will be blue vs red?.

Reb Bull, McLaren, Mercedes and Renault.

Ferrari, Williams, Force India, Sabuer?
I guess the small teams will decide everything if they do a voting, poll or something.



why force india with Ferrari ? :D Force India will be with McLaren ..

[Rob]

what is going on? FIA can not back track, they never did with us when we used to protest rule changes. What has RBR got over Charlie to get him to u-turn on the ban. Yet again, FIA making F1 a laughing stock, yet more politics the casual viewer not understanding. Makes them look weak.

Im not impressed, yet again RBR getting away with it. Shouldnt of banned it anyway, kept rules till end of year, everyone else, including us just fight for second place. Then at end of year ban it all. And even engine mapping.

[crewskas]

All teams have to agree, in order to go back to what they used before Silverstone...

And I'm 110% sure, Frank Williams will say no...

[Rob]

So, if the FIA is bringing the sport into disrepute, who will sanction them? :-?? Really, the FIA blows (pun intended) big time! :-!

:thumb

[Rob]

All teams have to agree, in order to go back to what they used in Silverstone...

And I'm 110% sure, Frank Williams will say no...

think it was williams who was the main team behind this ban in first place.

[Grillo]

Personally I think the FIA should have left things alone and then clarified/banned the exhaust blowing at the end of the season. As it is they are making a complete debacle out of it, by constantly dithering about and chopping and changing as the mood takes them.

Totally agree. Next season it could be Ferrari leading the Championship by a big margin and they'll do the same thing.

[Sianellen]

andrewbensonf1:
Ten of the 12 teams have agreed to revert to Valencia spec - free blowing but no change after qual. Williams and Sauber the exceptions at mo

[Kyss4k]

All teams have to agree, in order to go back to what they used before Silverstone...

And I'm 110% sure, Frank Williams will say no...

Everyone except Sauber and Williams agreed to go back to pre-Silverstone rules. For now.

[NanoTheQuickest]

hope they don't agree, its makes it more interesting for us... Enough RBs poles and victories for now, time for a change in the running order!!!!

[crewskas]

Everyone except Sauber and Williams agreed to go back to pre-Silverstone rules. For now.

Well I hope to keep disagreeing then... :-D

I'm sick of FIA going backwards in rules...
If a team has a reliability problem, force them to blow their exhaust away from the diffuser...!
If they don't and they moan about performance (why RB does negotiations for Renault engines???), then we don't care...

[Hermann]

Well I hope to keep disagreeing then... :-D

I'm sick of FIA going backwards in rules...
If a team has a reliability problem, force them to blow their exhaust away from the diffuser...!
If they don't and they moan about performance (why RB does negotiations for Renault engines???), then we don't care...

Why? Because they have a Renault engine.

[crewskas]

So???

Renault Sport should do it, if really a reliability problem exists...

I haven't seen Toro Rosso speaking about Ferrari engines...

[Hermann]

Ferrari is not complaining about the EBD ban, RB is. They want it back so they hide behind the Renault engines. 'Reliability issues'. Not so hard to understand, no? ;-)

[crewskas]

Well we say the same thing...
Let Renault speak if there is a reliability issue...
RB has no business and CW should throw them out...

[NanoTheQuickest]

Why? Because they have a Renault engine.

Because they get there downforce with it and the car is designed with that in mind, without it they are going to suffer big time in race condition!

I would put some money on now that will be as quick or even faster than them tomorrow.
We were +>0.5 after and matching there race pace, now we are +0.1 after quali!

[da_one]

If Ferrari manages to overtake RB pace wise through car development, critics will dismiss it and say that the gain in form is due to the EBD ban.

That is why I am in favor of going back to pre-Valencia rules. I would rather beat RB without this stupid mid season rule change.

[sagi58]

Too true!!

Can't you hear the conspiiiiraciess.... Fernando!!!
(As sung by ABBA!! :angel )

[NanoTheQuickest]

Don't get me wrong I agree with you guys it would look bad, definitely! But RB system is over the top especially on vettel's (reason unknown) and it has to be corrected and in my opinion they should not get away with it all season long but each to their own on that subject. The thing they want to avoid the most is to look stupid and this why they speak on their behalf and not Renault's

[scuderiafan]

since Ferrari seems to agree to bring this change back, it seems that it was the upgrades and not the ban, as the hater would like us to believe. major facepalm for McLaren. backfire.

[Rob]

FIA PROPOSES UNANIMOUS AXE FOR BLOWN EXHAUST CLAMPDOWN
Saturday 9 July at 18:31 : Jul.9 (FMM)

The FIA has proposed to scrap its controversial mid-season clampdown on blown exhausts.

Silverstone 2011 has been the scene of a highly-charged political saga about the technology, with major players Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari all involved.

As Red Bull and McLaren battled over the extent and details of the clampdown, Ferrari was left smiling on Saturday as it came closer than ever in 2011 to the front of the field.

"Normally on tracks like this we'd be further down the road," acknowledged Red Bull pole sitter Mark Webber.

"There might be a bit of a form card starting to build, but we need some more races to see if that is the case."

Asked if he thinks his Australian friend is right, Ferrari's Fernando Alonso said: "It's a difficult question to answer."

It might never have to be answered, as the governing body is now proposing to definitively end the complicated debate and revert to the pre-Silverstone rules whilst waiting for a seamless ban in 2012.

The FIA said in a statement that the status quo will remain for Silverstone, but beyond that "the viability of returning to the pre-Silverstone set-ups and strategies" is being discussed.

"If the teams are in unanimous agreement, the FIA is prepared to adopt this arrangement until the end of the current season," the Paris federation added.

http://www.onestopstrategy.com/dailyf1news/nieuw/article/14837-FIA+proposes+unanimous+axe+for+blown+exhaust+clamp down.html

[Alonsomaniac]

"If the teams are in unanimous agreement, the FIA is prepared to adopt this arrangement until the end of the current season," the Paris federation added.

And will the teams be that??

[Greig]

So glad to be at the track and away from all the politics lol

[Rob]

ruining the race weekend really.

[NanoTheQuickest]

What is Horner's background? He seems to have some politics study behind him, his faculty to BS people around especially the FIA, BBC pundits, us F1 fans and his absolute confidence when all that rubbish comes out of his mouth, it is simply outstanding!!!

Hats off to Horner

[Alonsomaniac]

Horner is doing exactly what he is paid for. He tries very hard to get the best possible outcome out of this for his team.
We may not like that, but he does his job and he is doing it good.

[Hermann]

Horner is doing exactly what he is paid for. He tries very hard to get the best possible outcome out of this for his team.
We may not like that, but he does his job and he is doing it good.


He is an arrogant you know what and a hypocrite. Are you a secret RB fan? I never liked Horner long before RB started winning races, so its not because of that. But he has definitely got worse with it.

[Brakefade]

We need to send supporting messages to Sauber and Williams. I don't understand why Ferrari and Virgin & HRT, who are always under threat from the 107% rule, agree to go back to Valencia levels.

[FFFerrari]

We need to send supporting messages to Sauber and Williams. I don't understand why Ferrari and Virgin & HRT, who are always under threat from the 107% rule, agree to go back to Valencia levels.

Because even they understand how idiotic the FIA has been with this whole fiasco. Better a FIA that sticks to the rules it makes than one that bends over to everyone.

[Forzi]

We need to send supporting messages to Sauber and Williams. I don't understand why Ferrari and Virgin & HRT, who are always under threat from the 107% rule, agree to go back to Valencia levels.

Maby because they are trying to save the sport from drama, scandals and strikes?

Let's be fair here, i'm all for Ferrari getting the advantage over everyone else, but we should understand that if we will go against lifting the ban, this will make only more chaos for the remaining season.

[da_one]

I find it amusing that a few days ago, there was this Adrian Newey quote in an article- "There was a period around 2002 when there seemed to be so much politics in F1, particularly between Ferrari and the FIA and what they were allowed to get away with. I became disillusioned with the whole sport and started to look around for what else I could do. I needed a fresh challenge and found it with Red Bull. I am really enjoying it at the moment."

Now it seems that Red Bull is the one that is always involved in controversies and politics in F1. Though I am not expecting him to be disillusioned by it, after all that is his team we are talking about. At the end of the day, such is the nature of F1, when you are on top, the FIA will do what it takes to negate your advantage while the team on top will do what it takes to keep their advantage.

[NJB13]

Personally I think SD has played and behaved through all this perfectly. Ferrari is neither the rule maker or enforcer. Let the Horners and Whitmarshes take the high profile positions.

I'm amazed at how some here so vehemently argue the Red Bull/Marko/Horner line.

I don't agree with the apologists who think Ferrari will somehow gain credibility by being sorry for what the FiA does. Lesson 101 in being a Ferrari fan - those who hate us will hate us no matter how much you apologise and agree with them. The British tabloids will always run headlines blaming Ferrari for everything from the last bad Lewis performance to the newest fungal infection.

I agree the whole thing is a shamozzle, but it's because the FiA have been so indecisive and wishy-washy in the way they have handled it. And for Pete's sake, now the FiA's solution is to leave it up to a unanimous decision of the teams - brilliant. Next disputed catch or LBW decision in the Ashes series we'll deal with the same way - ask the players to come up with a unanimous decision - ROFL.

The FiA has the rules, and its their job to enforce them. I can handle decisions that go against us, as long as they are clear and decisive. The total problem here is because of the FiA's weak, slow and indecisive action. A clear decision should have been made when the FiA says they were first aware of it (before the Australian GP) and it should have been clear, decisive and should have remained unchanged.

[sagi58]

Totally agree, NJB!! :thumb
___________________________________

Isn't it funny how things settled down once Todt showed up, today? :Hmm

[Brakefade]

I don't agree that we should stay so quiet. RB are only interested in getting their advantage back. Maybe our updates are the main reason why we are so close to the cows, maybe not, but we should not let Horner and co run the show and get their way. Besides it's so much fun to watch him and Newey squirm. :lol

[NJB13]

I don't agree that we should stay so quiet. RB are only interested in getting their advantage back. Maybe our updates are the main reason why we are so close to the cows, maybe not, but we should not let Horner and co run the show and get their way. Besides it's so much fun to watch him and Newey squirm. :lol

Oh yeah! I dooooo love seeing those guys squirm, but the squirming I most want to see is them squirming at us winning - oh yeah baby!

[Kingdom Hearts]

It looks like every team is going to agree with Valencia's EBD rules according to Adam Cooper, let's prey that the advantage we got this weekend is 99% thanks to the updates and not the EBD ban.

[Hornet]

Well, the downside is for some reason, Vettel got beaten by Webber, strangely without the EBD. Would love to see Webber continue taking points away from Vettel, lol. And Lewis constantly qualifying P10 is entertaining too :lol

The postive thing is however, Ferrari, Alonso and Massa is always up there regardless of with or without it. We don't depend on any gimmick to be quick :thumb

[Brakefade]

Remember when you were a kid and you used to cry over stuff you wanted, but your parents denied you? And then when you drove your parents crazy they finally gave in and bought it for you. Remember how stupid you felt afterwards, playing with your stupid toy with tears running down your cheeks? I hope RB feel that way right now.

[NanoTheQuickest]

Agree with NJB 13
With the amount of tabloids painted by the press and especially by the BBC Ferrari has finally understood that the less you say in F1 nowadays the better off you are. I was watching the rest of the broadcast last night (when they were covering for the golf) and they were pretty much trying to put all that mess on us, unbelievable:-E.

[NJB13]

Agree with NJB 13
With the amount of tabloids painted by the press and especially by the BBC Ferrari has finally understood that the less you say in F1 nowadays the better off you are. I was watching the rest of the broadcast last night (when they were covering for the golf) and they were pretty much trying to put all that mess on us, unbelievable:-E.

Actually, and sad to say, it's very believable

[SilverSpeed]

This whole thing amuses me :-D

Seeying red cow weeping like babiez makes me happy.

[Mrs.Domenicali]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92998

Formula 1 faces continued uncertainty as teams fail to reach agreement in exhaust rules row

By Jonathan Noble and Matt Beer Sunday, July 10th 2011, 10:22 GMT

Formula 1 faces continued uncertainty over its exhaust regulations after this morning's meeting of the sport's team bosses and technical chiefs at Silverstone failed to reach an agreement.

Following a weekend of controversy over the FIA's clampdown on the practice of off-throttle exhaust blowing and the various allowances made to engine builders on reliability grounds, the governing body said it would call off the rule tweak and revert to the pre-Silverstone situation if the teams agreed unanimously that this was the best option.

But this morning's meeting saw no unanimous support for such a deal.

AUTOSPORT's sources have revealed that Ferrari and the Ferrari-powered Sauber team refused to sign the deal to return to the Valencia specification.

There had been speculation that Cosworth engine user Williams would do likewise, but it is understood to have been in favour of this solution.

McLaren team boss Martin Whitmarsh had said yesterday that revert to the pre-Silverstone situation was in his opinion the only sensible option.

"Inevitably in F1 self interest sometimes prevails, but I think unless we go back to that, then this season is going to be fraught with paranoia, the feeling of being hard done to, being disadvantaged," he said. "We have got what we have got.

"It may be worse for other teams. It has certainly hit this team, it has hit the performance of our car, and I think that is evident from the stop watch - and hopefully from our perspective we get to a situation.

"It is not good to change the rules midway through the year. If you do that, the team that has worked hardest to perhaps refine that particular rule may well be disadvantaged."

[NJB13]

This whole thing amuses me :-D

Seeying red cow weeping like babiez makes me happy.

You're bad ......... I like you ........ but you're bad :-D