Sebastian Vettel: Is Red Bull star greatest Formula One driver ever? -Poll inside-

[DIEK]

Sebastian Vettel: with fourth consecutive world title in sight, is Red Bull star greatest Formula One driver ever?

Sebastian Vettel is about to secure his fourth Formula One world title in a row, so the question has to be asked: is he the greatest?

As he closes in on a fourth consecutive world drivers' title, the debate still rages: is Sebastian Vettel a great driver? Or merely a very good driver in a great car? We ask the experts, and you can vote on who you think is the greatest of them all:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/10374826/Sebastian-Vettel-with-fourth-consecutive-world-title-in-sight-is-Red-Bull-star-greatest-Formula-One-driver-ever.html




Results today at 14:47 pm. (Madrid time, GTM+2)

http://i.minus.com/jiYQVOXNmjd1g.jpg

Vote! :-D

[Greig]

For me it's MS that I have seen race, Alonso is very close though so I will vote Alonso since I am still mad at MS :-)

If you read this Michael, then let that be a lesson to you!!!!

[Alonsomaniac]

For me there is no doubt at all : nobody has even been close to Senna's magic.
I'm following F1 since 1973, so I have seen a lot but never something like Senna.
Schumacher is the most successfull driver, I rate Alonso just as high or maybe even a bit higher, so it would be Senna, Alonso, Schumacher.
Vettel is very fast, but so are and were many others.

[Rishu]

MS for me. Then Senna, Alonso, G. Villeneuve
& Prost would complete my top 5.

[Mike996]

Seriously, I don't think that the current standings of this poll does justice to any of the drivers.
Fangio just 5%, racing with cars that had suspensions like modern UPS trucks, safety features (err, what?) like a sheet metal bucket as a helmet and goggles, racing at the original Nurburgring track 2 minutes per lap faster than the next opponent (yes, minutes!! talk about a mere 2 secs from SV at Singapur), and death being your ever-present company.
I don't know. There is no "greatest ever".

[Alonsomaniac]

Seriously, I don't think that the current standings of this poll does justice to any of the drivers.
Fangio just 5%, racing with cars that had suspensions like modern UPS trucks, safety features (err, what?) like a sheet metal bucket as a helmet and goggles, racing at the original Nurburgring track 2 minutes per lap faster than the next opponent (yes, minutes!! talk about a mere 2 secs from SV at Singapur), and death being your ever-present company.
I don't know. There is no "greatest ever".

Of course there isn't, but everybody has his personal "greatest ever", that is why I said "For me there is..."

[Mike996]

Of course there isn't, but everybody has his personal "greatest ever", that is why I said "For me there is..."
I do agree with you that Senna was special, maybe the most naturally gifted driver ever, at least in his generation.
Would have been nice to see him race against MS more often than we were allowed to. MS wouldn't be a 7 times, would he? Then again, MS was on a steep learning curve, Senna at his peak.
Also, MS took physical fitness to a new level which helped him a lot. What most people don't know is that the reason behind most driver errors is not (stupidity/lack of talent/boredom/insanity), but plain physical exhaustion. It was obvious that with the cornering speeds that modern race cars reached, physical fitness would become more important, but MS was the first to profit from that. Nowadays, it is just a given that the drivers are high performance athletes. JB for example is doing triathlon.

[PURE PASSION]

For me there is no doubt at all : nobody has even been close to Senna's magic.
I'm following F1 since 1973, so I have seen a lot but never something like Senna.
Schumacher is the most successfull driver, I rate Alonso just as high or maybe even a bit higher, so it would be Senna, Alonso, Schumacher.
Vettel is very fast, but so are and were many others.
:thumb my thought exactly!!!

[racingbradley]

It just has to be Michael from the drivers I have watched.
Vettel has the perfect car and I think Senna had a mean machine.
But Michael won in a Benetton Ford on two successive years when Macca and Williams were the top teams!!!!!

I believe that in his time Fangio was something else!!!!!!! :-)

[Gerhard Berger]

I only started following F1 in the mid 90s so i can't rate the likes of Prost, Senna, Fangio, Clark etc.

From the drivers i've seen whilst following F1, i would say Schumacher. Second would probably be Alonso.

As for Vettel, I think the majority of fans still don't rate him as the best on the current grid, let alone the best driver ever.

[Senna4Ever]

For me there is no doubt at all : nobody has even been close to Senna's magic.
I'm following F1 since 1973, so I have seen a lot but never something like Senna.
Schumacher is the most successfull driver, I rate Alonso just as high or maybe even a bit higher, so it would be Senna, Alonso, --------
Vettel is very fast, but so are and were many others.

:thumb
nothing more to say ... except: I never liked Schumacher, Nevertheless I respect what he achieved - especially with Ferrari ...

To Fangio ...
I think with the introduction of the use of a carbon fibre composite monocoque a new era was started - an era which can not be compared to those with Senna, Schumacher and Alonso ...
today they are great men for me ... some of them more likeable some absolutely not and of course Biber ..

But men like Fangio, Moss, Berghe von Trips, Jim Clark, Jochen Rindt ... those men like heroes from another planet ...

[Mike996]

As for Vettel, I think the majority of fans still don't rate him as the best on the current grid, let alone the best driver ever.

He is only 26 though and yet a soon-to-be 4 times champion, while Hulk is just 7 weeks younger than him and regarded as a promising talent still. Was Alonso at his best when he was 26 or is he now (or 2012)? One can't ignore that SV is still learning and improving, at an already impressive level. Will be interesting to see how much further he can develop and what more he can achieve. Fast forward to 2020 and do this poll again.

In the mean time, I would rate Alonso's skills highest for the last 8 years or so, MS for the 8 to 10 years before, and Senna for the same period before MS. 10 years from now, who knows. I wouldn't put one over the other, because every career has an incline (learning phase), a peak (fully developped, still quite young and good physique) and a decline (time taking its toll). SV is still in phase 1, FA probably rather in the second half of phase 2, MS in 2012 was clearly in phase 3. Or would anybody suggest that NR was a greater driver than MS, just because he was able to score more points than him in their years at Mercedes?

[F2008]

World titles don't mean that much, Vettel still has a lot to prove. I have watched all seasons since 1975, not sure who is the greatest driver, but I must say Alonso is a genius. The most talented driver will always be Gilles for me, but he lacked long-term vision.

[ManFromMilan]

For me there is no doubt at all : nobody has even been close to Senna's magic.




No one was, has been and probably ever will be in my opinion.

I know people say you can never judge drivers from different eras, but Senna had that something no one else ever will.

He is the greatest.

[stefa]

My opinion is that drivers from different times (let's say decades) cannot be compared. By this in each decade - 1950-1960; 1960-1970; 1970-1980; 1980-1990; 1990-2000; 2000-2010;2010-2020 we should pick best drivers and they, but I don't say it is possible (not just looking into statistic) to draw out a conclusion which one is the best of them all.
I'll vote like this:
Schumacher
Senna
Prost
Lauda
Stewart
Fangio

[Meiga]

MS for me. Then Senna, Alonso, G. Villeneuve
& Prost would complete my top 5.

I would switch Villeneuve for Fangio and change the order to Prost-Senna-Fangio-MS- Alo/Clark/probably some other too (depending on the day I am having)

I am not too strict with the order above, but as much as I like Alonso he is below Prost (the clearest comparison for me).

[Alonsomaniac]

No one was, has been and probably ever will be in my opinion.

I know people say you can never judge drivers from different eras, but Senna had that something no one else ever will.

He is the greatest.

Yes...in a way he was a strange phenomenon.....I mean I have seen that man do things I haven't seen any other driver do. It's not that he was doing that in every race, but there were races or laps where he did things we would consider impossible. Schumacher, Alonso, Villeneuve, Prost, you name it, they have all driven wonderful races, great laps, no doubt about it.
But not what Senna did.....allthough I can't explain it, it was different, it felt like seeing the impossible happen sometimes.

[FFFerrari]

Fernando is in the top 10 in my books, but not even close of the top 5. And surely not the greatest ever. Senna has that place.

[Nova]

It is hard with the different era's. I dig most the drivers on the list. Thing is, when I read the thread, everyone has certain fav drivers, but Vettel isnt mentioned in any of them. I think Fangio was amazing, for that era. Lauda..and Gilles was a blast.
Its hard to pick actually...I loved watching Senna, wasnt crazy about Prost, yet he was really good.
Loved watching Michael, same for Alonso now.

[Hermann]

Interesting that here nobody would vote for Fernando yet he is still leading the poll by quite a margin :-D

[diesel08]

My opinion is that drivers from different times (let's say decades) cannot be compared. By this in each decade - 1950-1960; 1960-1970; 1970-1980; 1980-1990; 1990-2000; 2000-2010;2010-2020 we should pick best drivers and they, but I don't say it is possible (not just looking into statistic) to draw out a conclusion which one is the best of them all.
I'll vote like this:
Schumacher
Senna
Prost
Lauda
Stewart
Fangio

good :clap

[FFFerrari]

Interesting that here nobody would vote for Fernando yet he is still leading the poll by quite a margin :-D

It's distorted by some spanish F1 community. We have had this top driver of all time discussion before when BBC was unveiling their top 20 (where Vettel was positioned atop Alonso).

[Hermann]

Really? How do you know? I voted for Fernando, and i'm not spanish. Come on- maybe you don't like the picture, and now for you its 'distorted'.

[Mike996]

There’s a radio station around here where I live and every Easter holidays, they present their own charts that you could call: „greatest songs ever“, a list of 1000 songs and it takes 4 days to play the entire list. People can vote by phone during a period of two weeks or so prior to that. Each year so far, there have been different singers and bands in the top 50, with songs that were 12 months old at most. In the following year, the same songs usually were down at places between 500 and 1000, and the next year they don’t even make it into the list at all. Some other great classics always make it into the top 100 though, every year. Only time will tell if a song is truly that great, or just a short-lived hit.
I guess it is pretty much the same with F1 drivers. 10 years ago there were many F1 fans that said: well, Schumacher is quite good, but he is not one of the truly greats. It always takes some distance to be objectively able to judge if a driver makes it into the hall of fame or not.

[Hornet]

It's distorted by some spanish F1 community. We have had this top driver of all time discussion before when BBC was unveiling their top 20 (where Vettel was positioned atop Alonso).

Do you have any evidence for this?

Just last weekend, Sky did a quick pole and a large majority of people doesn't think Vettel is the greatest.

[Greig]

Why no Kimi on the list?

I tend not to trust votes that let you vote over and over for your choice.

[FFFerrari]

Do you have any evidence for this?

I have seen this happen way too many times regarding internet polls to not trust most of them. If someone truly thinks Fernando is the greatest, that's fine with me but the majority of F1 fanatics doesn't agree to that.


Just last weekend, Sky did a quick pole and a large majority of people doesn't think Vettel is the greatest.

It's very different to ask "Is Vettel the greatest of all time?" than ask "Who is the greatest of all time?" - and give a limited number of drivers to choose. I think majority can agree that he isn't the greatest,
but it's a far cry from actually agreeing who is the greatest.

[Hermann]

the majority of F1 fanatics doesn't agree to that

Who is that 'majority of F1 fanatics'? Fanatic fanboys of others drivers? :lol of course they won't agree!

I actually don't care who voted in this poll i think its quite funny Fernando seems to be winning it, especially for those who believe him to be the 'F1 villain', they must be foaming.

[Hornet]

I see your point, but I don't think it's fair to say the Spanish fans distort it. Maybe the Italian tifosi voted for Alonso too, who knows. Pretty sure Spanish aren't the only fans who thinks Alonso is their greatest driver. Otherwise one may also say the German fans gave Vettel any votes at all and distort it :-G.

[Firnas]

I am from Sri Lanka & been watching F1 from 2000. And I have voted Alonso as the greatest driver. I do not have an idea of the level of drives prior to 2000. But in my view Alonso is greater than Schumi, Vettel, Hamilton etc.

[Stormy]

How can you even say who's the best of all time...a lot of drivers drove in different times with different cars and different competition,they are a lot of legends...i think old drivers before 94 deserve more recognition because those cars were much harder to drive and it took a lot more balls to drive those cars because the smallest mistake can cost your life.
You cant compare Vettel to this other legends that are in the pool.
Vettel is a good drivers but no way in seven hells he deserves those 4 titles,maybe one but no way four.

[Hornet]

How can you even say who's the best of all time...a lot of drivers drove in different times with different cars and different competition,they are a lot of legends...i think old drivers before 94 deserve more recognition because those cars were much harder to drive and it took a lot more balls to drive those cars because the smallest mistake can cost your life.
You cant compare Vettel to this other legends that are in the pool.
Vettel is a good drivers but no way in seven hells he deserves those 4 titles,maybe one but no way 4.
I agree, hence the reason why many people note that their opinion are based on those they have watched, or a certain generation. I think most people do understand that we can never really compare all the drivers throughout the history of F1. That pole was probably voted with recent drivers in mind, hence we see drivers like Vettel, Schumi and Alonso getting all the votes while Lauda hardly get any.

[Senna4Ever]

It's distorted by some spanish F1 community. We have had this top driver of all time discussion before when BBC was unveiling their top 20 (where Vettel was positioned atop Alonso).

of course ... as Espania has one of the highest unemployment rate of young people they have nothing else to do than wait for such votes and participate.
And the rest got paid by Fernando to vote him by himself and Santander by each vote you got a voucher for bank account with 1,25% p.a. interest in the first year an then 1,00% ... free Mastercard or Visa ...

the BBC list was based on what?

[Stormy]

I agree, hence the reason why many people note that their opinion are based on those they have watched, or a certain generation. I think most people do understand that we can never really compare all the drivers throughout the history of F1. That pole was probably voted with recent drivers in mind, hence we see drivers like Vettel, Schumi and Alonso getting all the votes while Lauda hardly get any.
Then they should've made a pool Best driver the last 13 years,not of all time :-)

[anakin]

when the time fernando was with renault and mclaren to give ferrari a vast amount of headaches. i didn't like him. in fact i hate him
but when he came along ferrari and start winning races (unfortunately no WDC). he became my f1 hero

now, vettel is ripping ferrari apart. and rumors suggest that he will be a ferrari driver in due time. i don't think he can be my f1 hero
no chance in hell. how about you guys???????????

[FFFerrari]

I see your point, but I don't think it's fair to say the Spanish fans distort it. Maybe the Italian tifosi voted for Alonso too, who knows. Pretty sure Spanish aren't the only fans who thinks Alonso is their greatest driver. Otherwise one may also say the German fans gave Vettel any votes at all and distort it :-G.

It was just an easy assumption. I have seen many polls like this be distorted by british/german/finnish/etc. communities. I've seen local media make stories about these online votes and after that the vote has been really meaningless. The top drivers have fans all around the worlds, even Vettel.

And with F1 fanatics I meant people that are fanatical about Formula 1 itself, not about certain team, not about certain driver. People that have followed the sport long enough to give a meaningful, objective opinion on who might be the best of all time. If you haven't watched F1 longer than say 10 years, you don't have a lot of choices about whom you see as the top dog. If you have watched it 30 years and had interest to watch some races even before that time, you might have other opinions. I personally love the racing and drama from 70's and 80's and think highly of the drivers of that time.

[Mike996]

Interesting to read what his fellow F1 drivers and other people have to say about him.
Fact is that one cannot objectively judge him because nobody knows for sure how much exactly of an advantage the car makes and how much is down to his skills. He quite easily beat Webber, it could be that he would beat Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkonen just as well, or become #2 after those guys just as quickly. We just don't know. He said a couple weeks ago he would prefer Kimi over Ricciardo as his team mate, because Kimi is a buddy of his as it seems. That would have been an excellent benchmark, but it didn't work out. Too bad, really. Then again, that could have turned out to be even worse for Ferrari than SV/MW.
I am a Ferrari fan and not so much that of any driver in particular, so I am trying to be objective. It is pretty obvious that many people here dislike Vettel, but arrogance, childish behaviour and so forth that Vettel may have displayed does not make him a mediocre driver. Newey, the omnipotent genius according to some forum members, designed the RedBulls of 2007, 08 and 09 as well, with David Coulthard and Mark Webber on board. In 2007, they finished 6th in the WCC (promoted to 5th after DQ for Merc) and in 2008, they finished 7th in the WCC. In 2009, Vettel joined RBR (still being a rookie IMO) and he instantly finished 2nd in the WDC. Had Jenson Button not won five out of the first seven races, Vettel would have won the WDC in that year already: after the seventh race, Button's lead over Vettel was 32 points, at the end it was just 11. Not bad for a rookie.
Only time will tell. I remember that MS was facing the same accusations in his first years like "never had a champion as his teammate", "it's all the superior car". We will see if Ferrari can successfully keep a couple of WDCs away from him from next year on.

[Rishu]

Best drivers are those who extract maximum from the machinery they have. I think It's a little unfair for modern drivers since they have better equipment & safety & people say perhaps golden era drivers were more courageous & real racers. Who knows what Fangio, Nuvolari or Ascari would have done with modern day cars or Scumacher, Alonso would have done with historical cars from 50s? Best means adapting to what you have.

Personally, I rate my best from what I have seen based on this thought.

[Gerhard Berger]

Interesting to read what his fellow F1 drivers and other people have to say about him.
Fact is that one cannot objectively judge him because nobody knows for sure how much exactly of an advantage the car makes and how much is down to his skills. He quite easily beat Webber, it could be that he would beat Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkonen just as well, or become #2 after those guys just as quickly. We just don't know. He said a couple weeks ago he would prefer Kimi over Ricciardo as his team mate, because Kimi is a buddy of his as it seems. That would have been an excellent benchmark, but it didn't work out. Too bad, really. Then again, that could have turned out to be even worse for Ferrari than SV/MW.
I am a Ferrari fan and not so much that of any driver in particular, so I am trying to be objective. It is pretty obvious that many people here dislike Vettel, but arrogance, childish behaviour and so forth that Vettel may have displayed does not make him a mediocre driver. Newey, the omnipotent genius according to some forum members, designed the RedBulls of 2007, 08 and 09 as well, with David Coulthard and Mark Webber on board. In 2007, they finished 6th in the WCC (promoted to 5th after DQ for Merc) and in 2008, they finished 7th in the WCC. In 2009, Vettel joined RBR (still being a rookie IMO) and he instantly finished 2nd in the WDC. Had Jenson Button not won five out of the first seven races, Vettel would have won the WDC in that year already: after the seventh race, Button's lead over Vettel was 32 points, at the end it was just 11. Not bad for a rookie.
Only time will tell. I remember that MS was facing the same accusations in his first years like "never had a champion as his teammate", "it's all the superior car". We will see if Ferrari can successfully keep a couple of WDCs away from him from next year on.

Vettel was not a rookie in 2009. And yeh he would have won the title in 2009 if he hadn't made so many mistakes during the season, especially in the first part of the season.

Red Bull didn't become competitive in 2009 because Vettel joined (though his performance was obviously better than Coulthard) but because of the 2009 regulation changes which meant everyone started from 0 again.

Newey is rightly regarded as a genius. His record speaks for itself. He is the most successful modern day designer. He's won with 3 different teams and and 6 different drivers. Every team he has joined has had an upturn in fortune shortly after. That is no coincidence.

[Hermann]

They should try a poll that contains Newey, i bet he would win it by far, no matter which driver they add to the list.

[Mike996]

Vettel was not a rookie in 2009. And yeh he would have won the title in 2009 if he hadn't made so many mistakes during the season, especially in the first part of the season.

Red Bull didn't become competitive in 2009 because Vettel joined (though his performance was obviously better than Coulthard) but because of the 2009 regulation changes which meant everyone started from 0 again.

Newey is rightly regarded as a genius. His record speaks for itself. He is the most successful modern day designer. He's won with 3 different teams and and 6 different drivers. Every team he has joined has had an upturn in fortune shortly after. That is no coincidence.

It depends on the definition of "rookie". It was not his first season, that's true, but only his second full season and I think it is fair to say that he was still inexperienced, rather at the beginning of his learning curve (like Grosjean is today), and yet outperformed MW already in his first season at RBR, scoring more points than him while having 3 DNFs as opposed to MWs 2 DNFs.
After the rule change there was no car at all that could match the pace of the Brawn GP car, not even remotely, during the first couple of races (something that we should hope for again in 2014 for Ferrari after another rule change).

I do think that Newey is quite a genius, no doubt about it, but his cars did not win the WDCs in 1994, 95, 2000, 01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09. Some of these "defeats" may be because of a certain Schumacher, some others because there were simply better cars on the grid. He can be beaten, he has been many times. Aero is important, maybe more so today than it ever was, but it is not everything (yet?).

I am not suggesting that RBR got successful because of Vettel alone. It's the team that needs to have the right people in the right place, just like with Todt / Brawn / MS in the late nineties. They got the right people and you could almost instantly see the progress they made. One without the other two probably would never have been as successful.

[fratelliferrari]

For me it is and I think always will be Michael Schumacher.

[Forzi]

From what i have seen, and the few drivers i have spent time researching, i'd say it's Senna, Fernando and Gilles, with Fangio, Nuvolari or Ascari might be in the mix, since i have very little info about them but hearing that they were THAT good. I always thought that Fernando and Gilles had a lot in common. Personality (though Gilles was more honest) and driver skill vise. Both shined when the cars weren't able to be where they were in their hands. That in my eyes is the main thing that makes a driver great.

EDIT: Though not sure about Fernando. Might just be the fact that he's here today, but i'd bet he'd make the top 5 ever. Seb doesn't even deserve a top 10. Untill he gets a not top car and shows some consistent results, he's out of the top 10. It's best driver ever, not the best driver+car combo. So i'd say it's a tie between Gilles and Senna with Fangio, Nuvolari and Ascari an option to join in (lack of info and research about them).

[wisepie]

Impossible to say who's the greatest over so many seasons covering so many years and this question has been done to death. With cars as dominant as Ferrari/Mclaren/Williams/Lotus/Brawn/Red Bull over the decades, there never will be a simple answer. How about the best No2's for loyalty and perseverance, in which case it has to be Felipe!

[Suzie]

Michael is the best I've seen race in my lifetime, as I was only just starting to take a proper interest in F1 around the time Senna died. Alonso would be second for his scary consistency.

[R Ginart]

Greatest? HARDLY!!!!
Sebastian Vettel: with fourth consecutive world title in sight, is Red Bull star greatest Formula One driver ever?

Sebastian Vettel is about to secure his fourth Formula One world title in a row, so the question has to be asked: is he the greatest?

As he closes in on a fourth consecutive world drivers' title, the debate still rages: is Sebastian Vettel a great driver? Or merely a very good driver in a great car? We ask the experts, and you can vote on who you think is the greatest of them all:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/10374826/Sebastian-Vettel-with-fourth-consecutive-world-title-in-sight-is-Red-Bull-star-greatest-Formula-One-driver-ever.html




Results today at 14:47 pm. (Madrid time, GTM+2)

http://i.minus.com/jiYQVOXNmjd1g.jpg

Vote! :-D

[ManFromMilan]

while Lauda hardly get any.



Given all the crap he has been saying the last few years and accusations made by him, it would only be Karma bitch slapping him.

[Mike996]

Impossible to say who's the greatest over so many seasons covering so many years and this question has been done to death. With cars as dominant as Ferrari/Mclaren/Williams/Lotus/Brawn/Red Bull over the decades, there never will be a simple answer. How about the best No2's for loyalty and perseverance, in which case it has to be Felipe!

Well, yes...
Unfortunately for him, perseverance is not what team principals regard as the most important quality when considering hiring a 32 year old driver, I'm afraid...
He has a wife and a little son. After so many deadly accidents in many decades in F1, you can be glad when you are allowed to finish your career on your own terms. Massa will always remind us that F1 can still be a deadly sport. Just because there has not been a deadly accident since Senna, doesn't mean that it has become a safe sport. I wish him all the best, and maybe it's best for him if he retires. He has had his share of luck, a large portion of it.

[Aberracus]

Given all the crap he has been saying the last few years and accusations made by him, it would only be Karma bitch slapping him.

Yes i liked Lauda a lot before transforming himself into what he is now..

[fratelliferrari]

Impossible to say who's the greatest over so many seasons covering so many years and this question has been done to death. With cars as dominant as Ferrari/Mclaren/Williams/Lotus/Brawn/Red Bull over the decades, there never will be a simple answer. How about the best No2's for loyalty and perseverance, in which case it has to be Felipe!

Well said wisepie :thumb

[Forzi]

Given all the crap he has been saying the last few years and accusations made by him, it would only be Karma bitch slapping him.

He might have said and done what he did, doesn't change the fact that he's one of the best drivers in history. People getting personal and ignoring history is the reason why drivers like Vettel are being called the greatest in history.

[Alonsomaniac]

Michael is the best I've seen race in my lifetime, as I was only just starting to take a proper interest in F1 around the time Senna died. Alonso would be second for his scary consistency.

I think that says it all. It all depends on how old we are, which drivers we have seen. I myself know there were great drivers in the fifties en sixties, but I haven't seen them race. I started watching F1 in the seventies, actually the first race I visited was the Dutch GP in 1973 where Roger Williamson died....
I am one of the people who are old enough to have seen every single F1 race Ayrton Senna ever drove. And although there in theory can have been drivers before him that were better, I have never seen a driver as good as he was ever since he died.
Michael Schumacher is the most succesfull driver, and he was good, tremendously good. And so is Fernando Alonso. But neither of them have ever shown the almost impossible things Senna could make an F1 car do.

But as you said, in your lifetime it was Schumacher and that is why we all can have different drivers on our best list. Only the ones we have actually seen drive races count in our minds.

[Aberracus]

Please can you link some videos of Senna doing almost impossible things, i REALLY want to see him in his best, i was too young when Senna was running.

[vcs316]

Michael gets my vote too. His dedication, commitment and demand for perfection is something I have not seen till date. The drive and motivation to bring back the WDC & WCC to Ferrari during 1996-2000 (1999 we won the WCC) is beyond comparison.

A little excerpt from my all time fav Schumi article:


But what would the Commendatore himself have thought of Schumacher? Ferrari elders say he would have admired his driving, but the two would not have befriended. "They would have nothing in common, except the love of racing," says an old guard at Fiorano. Well, Enzo Ferrari is reputed to have built cars in order to impress women, hardly the notion you'd get from watching Schumacher, the opposite of a playboy. Enzo supposedly enjoyed female company until late in his life, and in that very spot where several adventures are reported to have taken place, Michael Schumacher now spends the nights like a hermit.

He sleeps there in the most modest surroundings - a bed, a sofa, a chest of drawers and a sports-bag with very few clothes. The only human companionship he has is his physio-therapist Balbir Singh, sleeping next door. They share a toilet and a shower, but hardly share a conversation; Schumacher is seldom alone, but often very lonely.

But what seems to some so Spartan is actually considered by Schumacher himself a great privilege and absolute luxury. No Ferrari driver before him ever lived in this house and none ever shared what the Commendatore so treasured: the quietness and remoteness Fiorano has to offer. In the former shed where ploughs, harrows and barrows once stood, a complete physical fitness studio has been installed for Schumacher, and the lights are often on until after midnight. And at other times, you can see his shadowy figure jogging all alone along the asphalt track to the accompaniment of grasshoppers chirping. That is what he likes, that is all he can focus on. Anything else is a distraction.

"I do nothing but train and drive," says a very serene Schumacher, "and I have no time for playing around." Indeed, the test program now, shortly before the end of the season, is almost wider than at the beginning of the year. New brakes have to be tried out; shock-absorbers and suspensions have to be checked; new aerodynamic components tested for suitability; and racing situations are simulated.

Full article - http://atlasf1.autosport.com/98/bel/schumacher.html

[wacc]

Is Red Bull star greatest Formula One driver ever?

That question can't be serious. Of course not.
From the older drivers I remember only Lauda and a bit of Piquet, but I was too young to have any memories. So I voted Senna which means not only top driver but also passion and emotion. For sure Fernando si very high on that list too.

[Senna4Ever]

Please can you link some videos of Senna doing almost impossible things, i REALLY want to see him in his best, i was too young when Senna was running.

- Donington 1993
- Interlagos 1991
- Monte Carlo Qualifying Lap 1988
- Monaco in the Toleman

[Aberracus]

Thanks I will search for them tomorrow morning

[izybluffen]

[QUOTE=ManFromMilan;811101]No one was, has been and probably ever will be in my opinion.

I agree with this 100%

Senna was THE fastest bloke to ever drive an F1 car.

His raw talent, raw speed and raw car control are unmatched.

This whole Bieber nonsense is nonsense. I totally discount his 1st win. Newey's car was best on the day in conditions with the front runners down the field because of quali rules. The guy never wins without the best car on the day. 2010,2012 and this year are proof of this. Senna and Schumi for example made miracles in crap cars before and after WDC's and on more than just 1 lucky Vettel occasion. When Bieber starts winning in the 4th best car out of sheer talent will i subscribe to any "great talk". Thats why Alonso is the best all round driver of the day.

The guy is an overrated phony IMO. Without Newey he would not have 1 single win.

Senna won 6 races and 16 poles before he got his hands on the best car - that is epic, and would of won more if not for running out of fuel and mechanical DNF's

Schumi is great but will always have a black mark against him for dubious tactics - He is awesome but was awesome enough he never had to cheat but still did - and that annoys me

Clark was a demi-god almost winning Nurburgring or SPA I think by just under 4 minutes !!!!! The guy could drive anything fast, even a wheelbarrow.

Vettel cant drive or win in anything that isnt the best on the day or glued to the ground where the car drives itself.

Winning in the best car is 1 thing, winning in an inferior car is the real proof or your skill. - Hey, even Damon Hill basically won in the 1997 Hungarian GP in a TWR !!!!!! A TWR for damn sake !! The Worst car on the grid !!! Before the motor blew up 3 laps till the end.

It wont be long before Vettel gets proved as an overrated chump. Ill bet on it.

[Alessandra]

It is, as many have said, quite impossible to make judgements like this between drivers in different cars, at different times, under different regulations and so on.

But, this isn't the point of the vote is it?. The article above it in the newspaper is about the consecutive wins by Vettel which suggest that he's a great driver by anyone's standards, regardless of the circumstances.
It's an invitation for people to express their feelings about the status quo - and it could be deduced that , in the main, people are not happy.

I'd interpret that the public's response, so far, resoundingly contradicts the notion that Vettel is 'great' without reference to the car he's had the good fortune to drive- Alonso, who has simply driven fantastically, is way out ahead of everyone in the poll, not just Vettel even MSC and Senna. It seems a very emotional response to me.

I'm a Fernando fan but even I'm a bit taken aback by the public's response.
I wonder if the message being sent is that Jo Public feels manipulated by what's going on at present in F1?

[wisepie]

Good point about the manipulation in current F1, Alessandra, and it does seem that things have been contrived to make Red Bull and Vettel so successful in the past few years, more so than the FIA favouring Ferrari in the Schumacher days. But it does boil down to who builds the best car, and the best car by far has allowed Vettel the luxury of just winning from the front without really having to fight as hard as, say, Alonso in the recent Ferraris. So that makes Alonso the best for me, of the current brigade. In Senna's day, he was the consummate driver and mostly in a very good Mclaren. I am sadly old enough to remember the likes of Bandini/Amon/Ickx/Villeneuve/Lauda/Regazzoni in their prime, always in Ferraris, of course, so I'm biased! There have been stand-out drivers throughout the decades so ther's no clear-cut answer to who's best, and despite Vettel's current statistics, I don't think he can yet be judged as one of the very best.

[Andy]

...And the rest got paid by Fernando to vote him by himself and Santander by each vote you got a voucher for bank account with 1,25% p.a. interest in the first year an then 1,00% ... free Mastercard or Visa ...

the BBC list was based on what?

Grrr, and still I've gone to my Santander office asking for it. Lies! ROFL

[wisepie]

Well, yes...
Unfortunately for him, perseverance is not what team principals regard as the most important quality when considering hiring a 32 year old driver, I'm afraid...
He has a wife and a little son. After so many deadly accidents in many decades in F1, you can be glad when you are allowed to finish your career on your own terms. Massa will always remind us that F1 can still be a deadly sport. Just because there has not been a deadly accident since Senna, doesn't mean that it has become a safe sport. I wish him all the best, and maybe it's best for him if he retires. He has had his share of luck, a large portion of it.
There's a lot of truth in what you say, he has had a rollercoaster of a career at Ferrari and if he can't get a decent drive next year, maybe he should count his blessings and look after his family. But I'd love him to get a drive and stay in the sport somehow, he obviously still has the hunger.

[fratelliferrari]

There's a lot of truth in what you say, he has had a rollercoaster of a career at Ferrari and if he can't get a decent drive next year, maybe he should count his blessings and look after his family. But I'd love him to get a drive and stay in the sport somehow, he obviously still has the hunger.

I agree with both of you! I want to see Felipe happy and hopefully he gets that drive at Lotus :-D