F14-T- Development & News

[icedeepan]

Now that Red Bull have wrapped up the 2013 driver's and constructor's title, thought it might be a good idea to start a thread about our 2014 challenger. Byrne, Fry, Allison, Fernando, Kimi..surely no excuses in 2014!

[Massimo181]

Lol!! Next year we have two good drivers and a team that can train and a Stallion to be a Donkey!

[zike]

Lol!! Next year we have two good drivers and a team that can train and a Stallion to be a Donkey!

:rotfl:rotfl:rotfl

[Hornet]

Unfortunately we won't have much to discuss yet I think. Ferrari is very secretive even regarding the V6 engine. We have yet to see any picture or sound of our new V6. I wonder which one we'll get see first next year, the new engine or the new car. :-P

Anyway just for fun I'll put this 2014 car template here by Scarbs and next year we'll see how different the 2014 car is from this basic idea. Hopefully we'll see something on the Ferrari that no one else thought of
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff483/Hornet1985/Formula%201/2014_draft_zps3097468f.jpg
Credit to Scarbs.

[Jas]

To be anywhere near the front our engine needs to be the dominant...as our aero etc will only let us down! the pressure is seriously on!! Why am I saying this...no evidence of real improvement and 2014 car has been developed over two years where we have shown what we are capable off! Can not wait tho!

[scuderiafan]

Well the journos seem to think Ferrari is struggling badly to get their 2014 car up to speed. But then, the journos thought it would be McLaren vs Ferrari despite the rule change in 2009.

Nobody knows. This is exactly what Ferrari have been lobbying for now, so they surely can't mess up.

[pluto]

for the love of god please finally design a fast car. After 5 years its time to be a top team again. The fans have suffered enough.

[AfterLife]

Hope three or at least one Team would be equal or faster than RedBull. We need more competitive teams. It is essential to stop RedBull's dominance next year.

[stefa]

Well the journos seem to think Ferrari is struggling badly to get their 2014 car up to speed. But then, the journos thought it would be McLaren vs Ferrari despite the rule change in 2009.

Nobody knows. This is exactly what Ferrari have been lobbying for now, so they surely can't mess up.

Don't be so sure about messing thing up... Let's wait and see

[diesel08]

Hope for the best! But...we will see. Ferrari must improve.

[Bubbles]

Well, at least we know that if 2014 turns out to be like the last four years, then the Scuderia might start 2015 with a different team principal, that's for sure. Chief designer, too.

[bonzo]

Well, at least we know that if 2014 turns out to be like the last four years, then the Scuderia might start 2015 with a different team principal, that's for sure. Chief designer, too.

If we start 2014 with the same team principal then we know the result even today.

[Jose Lorca]

Well the journos seem to think Ferrari is struggling badly to get their 2014 car up to speed.

You mean the V6 or the car? I've heard negative things about the V6, nothing about the car.


The only things I've heard about the car:

1. Both La Stampa and a Spanish paper (I think Marca?) said we're going back to push-rod suspension at the front. La Stampa said Allison made the call to ditch front pull rod.
2. Rory Byrne has said lap times will go up by 4-5 seconds "mainly because of the 50 kg extra weight."
3. De La Rosa told Marca a couple of weeks ago that our nose would have a steep drop and that 2014 noses will be ugly.
4. At Suzuka, Massa mentioned that 2014 cars would have "a lot less downforce".

[GrndLkNatv]

I have no doubts about the V6 being ready to rumble when the season starts. I also believe that the new car will be very competitive when the season starts. Monty is done screwing around too, he has opened up the purse strings and pretty much demanded a winner for this coming year... The team are pulling in talent and technology from all 4 corners of the planet. This season may be over for the championship but being number 2 in the WCC means a lot of money to spend for 2014 so keep up the support!!!!! Also remember the guys are out there away from home and their families pushing a car after the championship has been determined. They need your support now more than ever!!

From our visit on 9/3/2013

5480

[radosav]

We need to stay calm !

[Bubbles]

We need to stay calm !

For sure.

[Alonso14]

We need to stay calm !

And to work very hard back in the factory and maximize our performance on track! :lol

[tifosi1993]

http://imageshack.us/a/img689/9513/qod0.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img545/2069/4xp3.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img33/6977/o2a6.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img818/9620/txmx.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img545/7981/3yms.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img820/3742/yif6.jpg


via @erteclas (https://twitter.com/erteclas)

[bonzo]

We need to stay calm !

As we did the last 5 seasons:-D

[stefa]

I like these kind of nose on F1 car.

[stefa]

As we did the last 5 seasons:-D

...and we become Yoga masters.

SD is sounding to me like Mighty Yoda from Star Wars :-) COME WE NEED TO KEEP, AND CARRY ON WE SHALL.

[Bubbles]

Those renderings are kind of nice, especially the nose. The front camber seems off.

I gotta say, if I see the new car with enormous sidepods again, I'm going to lose all hope right there and then. I mean it.

There was a GIF I saw with a comparison between the Ferrari and the Red Bull, and, Jesus, the RB had tiny sidepods by comparison.

[SS454]

I would expect to see the 2014 cars to look significantly different than that rendering. The back of the sidepods should become much narrower the exhaust position is much different. To me this would suggest that Red Bull have an early advantage as their current sidepod design is different than most F1 cars on the grid. What kind of air intake designs they will run to cool the intercooler will be very interesting, and could have a pretty big performance impact. I believe the engine covers are going to become basically billboards, except for just behind the roll hope, and above the engine itself. Reason as the exhaust pipe will be as low as possible and the ram air design isn't nearly as important with a turbo charger. Simply get all the air possible to the turbo intake.

The exhaust pipe itself will be much bigger than shown, I'm not sure if the shape even has to be round. Being creative with charging the aerodynamics with this exhaust flow will be important.

The front wing elements will likely look different, particularly towards chassis side and the endplates. Personally I am not a fan of this low nose design, I much prefer the high nose, at least something similar to the late 90s, early 00s cars.

With the reduction of downforce and the added weight, these cars are almost getting too slow.

[Massimo181]

Thought they raised the noses this year on the cars for safety? Next years cars with lower front noses look like a perfect ramp for another car to launch onto the car and then the driver!!

[stefa]

Thought they raised the noses this year on the cars for safety? Next years cars with lower front noses look like a perfect ramp for another car to launch onto the car and then the driver!!

They used to have such lower noses almost since the begging, and how many head to head collision were?

[Hornet]

Thought they raised the noses this year on the cars for safety? Next years cars with lower front noses look like a perfect ramp for another car to launch onto the car and then the driver!!

Actually the nose was raised for aerodynamic purposes, to allow as much air to flow underneath it as possible. This air will continue to flow along the side of the sidepod to the rear. The danger of the high nose tip is that they are now almost on level with the top of the cockpit and if the car hits another car from the side, the tip of the nose could go over the side and impact the driver's head.

Therefore by lowering the nose tip, it will ensure that the tip will impact the side of the car and not the driver's head.

[Jas]

I bet newey has some genius way of exploiting that exhaust gas already!

[Silent Bob]

I think we'll have a pretty decent car. Ferrari never really got to grips with EBD, but now that the rules will make the cars revert back to pure aero, we should be ok. Ferrari have a lot of experience making aero efficient cars without EBD and Byrne is helping out.. I think he is probably one of the best aero guys. I expect Mercedes, with Costa will be good as well, his cars were pretty efficient.

[Hornet]

I agree that their blown diffuser concept is probably their biggest advantage. But they do have other strength too, such as their good traction out of slow corners. Their traction made them superior in street circuits with many slow corners such as Singapore.

Traction is one of the aresa we need to improve on

[modza]

with narrower front wing, i guess they try to pass air flow around inside part of tire not the outside, like previews

[Nova]

RB may have to increase their sidepods. Nice renderings..but they look like 2007 nose w/2013 sidepods.

[Kyss4k]

Thought they raised the noses this year on the cars for safety? Next years cars with lower front noses look like a perfect ramp for another car to launch onto the car and then the driver!!

The exact opposite :-) Construtors went for higher noses because it has the benefit in getting more air under the car. But it was not safe (high nose cen get over the wheel easily and that can launch the car in the air) so FIA decided that in 2012 the noses has to be lower - duck noses were created. In 2013 they only alowed to use vanity panel to make the noses prettier, so it looks like the became higher. Low noses == safer noses.

[RedRebel40]

Biggest advantage of Newey is being very creative with new rules, I keep my fingers crossed for 2014...

[wisepie]

That pea-shooter of an exhaust looks pathetic on the rendering, hope that's not an omen for our power output.:-E

[paneristi]

...and we become Yoga masters.

SD is sounding to me like Mighty Yoda from Star Wars :-) COME WE NEED TO KEEP, AND CARRY ON WE SHALL.
Talks like Yoda, looks like Yoda, manages like mamaluke

[Rishu]

I bet newey has some genius way of exploiting that exhaust gas already!

Maybe not, he doesn't sound too optimistic. But then with great engineers like Newey, you never know :-D




Red Bull dominance may end - Newey

Adrian Newey admits he is unsure whether Red Bull can continue its dominance of Formula One beyond 2013.

After Sebastian Vettel and Red Bull secured a fourth consecutive championship double at the Indian Grand Prix, attentions are now turning to the rule changes which will have such a major impact on the 2014 season. While it was put to Newey that he could interpret the new regulations better than any other team and continue Red Bull's form, Newey said there were too many unknowns including ones which were outside of his hands.

"We might but you don't know; that's the thing about rule changes isn't it?" Newey said. "We've had occasions where we have managed to do that, but we've got big aerodynamic changes - not as big as 2009 but still very significant - and then we've got obviously the engine package which from our side is a very complicated package to install.

"From Renault's side what is not at all clear at the moment is whether one of the three manufacturers will have a significant benefit over the others. And I think reliability is going to be a big issue at the start of the season as well."

Asked whether the bigger influence on next year's cars would be new regulations or designs which have been restricted from recent years, Newey replied: "Ultimately the restrictions.

"You have these changes which are exciting and different when you have a big regulation change such as we have for next year. But when you sit down and go through the details it's actually more and more restrictions; the beam wing is banned next year, the nose is more restricted. The front wing being narrower is not a restriction - it's just a change - but the nose and the beam wing are without doubt restrictions, and the exhausts of course, most importantly."

And Newey added that he may struggle to produce a good-looking car.

"The new rules do make it challenging, that's for sure!"

[stefa]

Maybe not, he doesn't sound too optimistic. But then with great engineers like Newey, you never know :-D

I'll not underestimate him at all. He'll come with something clever for sure, that no other has thought about.

[sreenivaschinne]

If we start 2014 with the same team principal then we know the result even today.

:rotfl:rotfl:rotfl:rotfl:rotfl:rotfl:rotfl:rotfl:r otfl:rotfl

[Catalan]

One question on the wind tunnel. There were talks about Ferrari re-opening it by the end of October. Apparently, this time it's gonna work with 60 % scale and with the latest gadgets in technology. Any update on this ?. And also, will the 2014 project undergo double-check in this new wind tunnel or will it be completely created using the Köln one ?

[hrc5555]

One question on the wind tunnel. There were talks about Ferrari re-opening it by the end of October. Apparently, this time it's gonna work with 60 % scale and with the latest gadgets in technology. Any update on this ?. And also, will the 2014 project undergo double-check in this new wind tunnel or will it be completely created using the Köln one ?

You can reed all about that in 2014 Regulations.(engine/aero etc etc)

[Nick Singer]

However the teach stuff pans out, sadly, the team needs an inspirational figure to lead it. Brawn (now available..) and even (spits and crosses himself at the thought of the unthinkable) Flav might offer something…...

LdM said no driver was 'bigger than the team'… The team needs to get 'bigger' and have a big man at the helm, IMVHO..

(Hides behind sofa..)

[Senna4Ever]

Daughter of de la Rosa designed our next years car ...

Look--> 5484

not bad :lol

and even better guys from simulation say even with V6 turbo 2 second faster than this years car
and results from our new wind tunnel (first check): 8 points more traction/down force

so a spark of hope for next years car ..

But Pirelli's look very hard

[Nova]

Pirelli needs to stop letting the FIA run their company and simply make a good F1 race tire.
None of this trying to make racing more interesting crap. See where that got them for sure.

Make a good tire, let the teams test with these tires, and F1 may return to more of what its supposed to be.

[bkircher]

Forgive the noobish question, but is there gonna be DRS next year?

[Hornet]

Forgive the noobish question, but is there gonna be DRS next year?

Yes, DRS will remain.

A long time ago, there was some discussion to improve overtaking by re-introducing shaped floors along with the new engine rules, but unfortunately that did not happen. So DRS is still the only means to aid overtaking.

[bkircher]

Thanks for the reply.

[diesel08]

http://www.racingfanatic.net/2013/11/engine-era-could-end-red-bull-dominance.html

[stefa]

http://www.racingfanatic.net/2013/11/engine-era-could-end-red-bull-dominance.html

I am not buying it until I see it...

[zike]

http://www.racingfanatic.net/2013/11/engine-era-could-end-red-bull-dominance.html

why does everyone think that Merc will have the best engine?

[Hornet]

Just wild guessing probably. We won't know until winter testing.

[Nova]

Has to be..no one has seen these new engines in action..all wild journo speculation.

[diesel08]

why does everyone think that Merc will have the best engine?

I don't know..some insiders and F1 analysts think this...merc engine will have more power but 2014 is not only about power...biggest issues will be the consumption and unit fiability. I hope that Ferrari engine will follow the best technology and do the best in the track.

[Jas]

1) Renault is using red Bull as their works team so any advantage their is gone, the engine I guarantee is built round the needs of red bull first and foremost!

2) wonder how many we have on it, doubt 400, is our engine dept that big?!?! Im guessing engine dept for the whole of Ferrari eg road car dept?

[Poltergeistes]

Don't beleive nobody knows, at the end of 2008 everybody knew redbull was going to be the big challenge to come next, they didn't mention Brawngp cause at that moment because of the financial time it was going through they may not have had money to be part of the championship.

While Mercedes and Ferrari obviously have always had alot of money on it, redbull is also on that list, since it's been several WCC in a row, plenty of sponsors, now with renault having not only redbull but also lotus doing very well that has put the pressure on them to keep investing on the sport.

I think if we have a small advantage on the engine, that will make up for the gap redbull has on us when it comes to aerodynamics.

It just upsets me so much when they show those shots of different cars going through a few corners and everyone is fighting all around it, while redbull is making love to them! it's just sick!!!!

[eugene22n]

The FIA will do everything in their power to make sure the engines are not the deferential.

For us it will AGAIN be the windtunnel. Is it finally fixed or can we already see the future where Stefano & Fry talk about how we are having correlation issues and are using the Toyota tunnel.

[Forza7]

I am a huge Ferrari fan as every one of you! I have started a page on facebook...its called Forza Ferrari- https://www.facebook.com/FzFerrari .....please check us out...!! thanks!!
Forza Ferrari! :D

[wacc]

Mercedes' Brawn fears Red Bull dominance will continue in 2014 (autosport.com)

Mercedes thinks there are now clear warning signs that some of Red Bull's current dominance will carry over in to 2014.

Although the new engine regulations coming next year do offer fresh opportunity for Red Bull's rivals, Mercedes thinks a closer look at the steps forward the champion team has made in recent months suggest its advantage will not be completely wiped away.

In particular, Brawn thinks that Red Bull has made big gains in its understanding of aerodynamic efficiency to improve its straight-line speed, an area where it had been weak in the past.

"Some of the performance I have observed they have gained in the second half of the year, it looks like performance that will translate into next year," Brawn told AUTOSPORT.

"They suddenly have the car that sometimes tops the speed trap times, and they have never done that in years.

"They have managed to shed some drag off the car, so some of the car's performance in certain areas of the track, if carried over in to next year, will make it very challenging.

"It is a new slate in many ways [in 2014], but I think you don't unlearn things. So things they have modified with this year's car will be applicable for next year."

Red Bull boss Christian Horner says the steps his team have made in the second half of this year have not come at the expense of its 2014 challenge, and any progress it makes from now on will also help it next year.

"While the championship jobs are done this year, whatever we achieve this year we can only benefit from next year," he said.

"Our full focus in Milton Keynes is on the challenges of 2014, but there is still an awful lot we can learn [from the current car].

"The other teams are also involved in a battle for second in the championship. We are out of that and will be able to turn full focus on to 2014."

[Jose Lorca]

I don't agree with Brawn.

Below is a video of Red Bull's updates in the seconds half of the season. The first thing you'll notice is the number of updates, which shows that even in September/October, they were focusing heavily on the 2013 car - which means less time to focus on 2014. Then if you look at what parts they're focusing on, you'll see that much of the development has been on the front wing and nose - both are changing significantly next year. Their diffuser and floor development is designed around a concept that involves sealing the diffuser with exhaust gasses - also changing next year. They will be able to carry some things over into 2014 but lets not forget that the rear of their car is designed around the exhaust, and they will suffer the most from the EBD ban.

The video: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/video/f1-technik-red-bull-updates-nach-der-sommerpause-7876369.html

[brembo man]

Talks like Yoda, looks like Yoda, manages like mamaluke

La parola Mamaluke ! Nostalgia!

[ManFromMilan]

I don't agree with Brawn.

Below is a video of Red Bull's updates in the seconds half of the season. The first thing you'll notice is the number of updates, which shows that even in September/October, they were focusing heavily on the 2013 car - which means less time to focus on 2014. Then if you look at what parts they're focusing on, you'll see that much of the development has been on the front wing and nose - both are changing significantly next year. Their diffuser and floor development is designed around a concept that involves sealing the diffuser with exhaust gasses - also changing next year. They will be able to carry some things over into 2014 but lets not forget that the rear of their car is designed around the exhaust, and they will suffer the most from the EBD ban.

The video: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/video/f1-technik-red-bull-updates-nach-der-sommerpause-7876369.html



Can't say i have followed their updates as closely as you, but it makes sense. All of their strengths will be nullified next year except the aero and design teams capable talent.

But with that said they might not be that efficient with next years challenges no matter how good they now have been with the blown diffuser. I think Brawn is just blowing smoke up their backsides.

[Jas]

Pirelli: Alonso wasn’t able to win for a number of reasons and not because of tyres

6 November, 2013

Marco Tronchetti Provera, chairman of the Pirelli Group
Marco Tronchetti Provera, chairman of the Pirelli Group

Pirelli chairman Marco Tronchetti Provera has hit back at Fernando Alonso’s criticism of the Italian marque’s Formula 1 tyres in 2013.

Spaniard Alonso, the highest paid and arguably most highly rated and influential driver on the grid, recently slammed the questionable “quality” of this year’s Pirellis.

The criticism came at an awkward time for Pirelli, who while having agreed with the teams and Bernie Ecclestone about a new deal beyond 2013, are still yet to be offered an actual dotted line to sign on by the governing FIA.

“I have to say that he was very nervous when he said that,” Tronchetti Provera told CNN, referring to Alonso’s recent comments.

Fernando Alonso's Ferrari with a right-hand tyre fitted to the left side of the car
Fernando Alonso’s Ferrari with a right-hand tyre fitted to the left side of the car

“It was not because of tyres — he wasn’t able to win for a number of reasons. If they (Ferrari) didn’t use the tyres properly, it’s not our fault.”

He warned that because Formula 1 has asked specifically for tyres that wear out quickly, it is crucial the teams strictly follow the operating guidelines issued by Pirelli.

“We can do whatever is needed, but with the respect of the rules,” said the 65-year-old. ”It means tyres have to be used within the limits we provide teams.”

Pirelli has been given the green light by the FIA to supply tyres in 2014, but Tronchetti Provera said a new deal beyond 2015 is also possible.

Fernando Alonso in the cockpit of the Ferrari F138
Fernando Alonso in the cockpit of the Ferrari F138

Some, however, have questioned the wisdom of Pirelli’s Formula 1 foray, particularly when the quality, consistency and lifespan of the tyres might be seen to affect the Italian brand’s image.

“We had some damages for a few weeks after Silverstone,” Tronchetti Provera admitted, “but I think today people understand it wasn’t Pirelli’s fault.”

Meanwhile, tyrepress.com reports that Korean tyre marque Kumho tested Formula 1-specification tyres at Spain’s Circuit de Catalunya in September.

Kumho said the purpose of the test was to “validate the technology for future business with Formula 1 and to actually test the technology accumulated through motor sports since the 1990s for Formula 1.” (GMM)


Related News

[Hornet]

It's Pirelli's fault they make tires that explodes in Silverstone, and had to revert back to 2012 tires. That alone may not be the reason why Ferrari lost, but still Pirelli failed to make a proper 2013 tires.

[Senna4Ever]

Listen, listen, our candle in the wind is speaking

from news.orf.at (Austria public broadcast), translated via google translate

Ferrari looks to 2014 for the hunt for world champion Sebastian Vettel and Red Bull better equipped than this season. "We have found the weaknesses and eliminate them for next year," assured team boss Stefano Domenicali said in an interview with the newspaper "Die Welt".
The traditional Italian team have already begun to change its structures to keep pace with Vettel's Red Bull team again in the future. "We have now taken the right step in the right direction. Ferrari must and will deliver in the future, "said Domenicali. "I do not want to be too exuberant, but in 2014 I see us in a better position than this season."

How often we have already taken "the right step into right direction" ... and where to we ended up end of season ....
can we assume that when he talks about eliminate weaknesses he will retire end of this year?

[Hermann]

Listen, listen, our candle in the wind is speaking

from news.orf.at (Austria public broadcast), translated via google translate


How often we have already taken "the right step into right direction" ... and where to we ended up end of season ....
can we assume that when he talks about eliminate weaknesses he will retire end of this year?

Oh gwad please no, tell me that Domenicali didn't say that and that its from some old interview...

[Senna4Ever]

Oh gwad please no, tell me that Domenicali didn't say that and that its from some old interview...

5.11.2013 ... also Gestern veröffentlich worden ... released yesterday (http://www.welt.de/sport/formel1/article121528400/Sag-niemals-nie-zu-einem-Fahrer-wie-Vettel.html)

[tifosi1993]

Ferrari encouraged by early results of re-opened F1 windtunnel

http://cdn.images.autosport.com/editorial/1380012026.jpg

Ferrari's upgraded Formula 1 windtunnel is giving encouraging early results after re-opening last month.

The Scuderia shut down its Maranello tunnel late last year to work on correlation problems that had held it back, with Toyota's state-of-the-art windtunnel in Cologne being used instead for development work.

Although Ferrari is still in the early stages of evaluating its improved windtunnel, engineering director Pat Fry is encouraged by progress.

"We have been back in there for a few weeks," said Fry when asked about the windtunnel by AUTOSPORT.

"It's being 100 per cent used now, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, the normal thing.

"It is reasonable although it takes time for you realise how good a tool is.

"We have certainly made some reasonable improvements there.

"Time will tell if we are exactly where we would like to be but the signs are good at the moment."

In order to assess the effectiveness of the Maranello windtunnel, Ferrari has been conducting some tests specifically to ensure it is generating the same results as the Toyota.

"There are the normal things of repeatability, so we do a lot more repeats of things," said Fry.

"Some of the things we've done at Toyota, we are also doing - step changes trying to check it has got the same trends - and so far so good."

Although the new 1.6-litre turbocharged V6 engines that will be introduced next year will be a significant performance differentiator next year, Fry has no doubts aerodynamic development will also remain vital.

This means the effectiveness of Ferrari's Maranello windtunnel will be key to the team's development for 2014, although as Fry points out it will be essential to start the season with the engine in good shape.

"Aero still remains a very dominant factor next year as well," said Fry.

"It is still going to be very important although the balance towards engines is higher than it currently is, especially as you have to get it right at the start.

"You need your power unit package as good as you can at race one because it's quite difficult to upgrade it in the season."


Link: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111163

[Senna4Ever]

In order to assess the effectiveness of the Maranello windtunnel, Ferrari has been conducting some tests specifically to ensure it is generating the same results as the Toyota.
"There are the normal things of repeatability, so we do a lot more repeats of things," said Fry.
"Some of the things we've done at Toyota, we are also doing - step changes trying to check it has got the same trends - and so far so good."


:Hmm
just to sort things out

a) we discovered that our own wind tunnel was faulty so we moved to Toyotas
b) 2013 car was developed with Toyota wind tunnel
c) during 2013 we got told (again) problems with wind tunnel mixed up our development of the car
d) reworked Ferrari wind tunnel taken into operation again

right summary? Or?

and now we compare the results from our new one with the Toyota - where we once again had been faced with faulty results ... ?
And we are glad that we got same trends?

[Greig]

Listen, listen, our candle in the wind is speaking

from news.orf.at (Austria public broadcast), translated via google translate


How often we have already taken "the right step into right direction" ... and where to we ended up end of season ....
can we assume that when he talks about eliminate weaknesses he will retire end of this year?

Not quite sure what you would expect him to say? Seems like you are just seeking out reasons to attack him now.

[Senna4Ever]

Not quite sure what you would expect him to say? Seems like you are just seeking out reasons to attack him now.

no Sir ... just wanted from someone more reliable person a feedback if I understood correctly
as it is for nothing I just won't attack anyone until end of season ...

nobody moves ... nobody hurt ... (c) we are scientists (good band btw)

[KennyBama]

I have no doubts about the V6 being ready to rumble when the season starts. I also believe that the new car will be very competitive when the season starts. Monty is done screwing around too, he has opened up the purse strings and pretty much demanded a winner for this coming year... The team are pulling in talent and technology from all 4 corners of the planet. This season may be over for the championship but being number 2 in the WCC means a lot of money to spend for 2014 so keep up the support!!!!! Also remember the guys are out there away from home and their families pushing a car after the championship has been determined. They need your support now more than ever!!

Well put!

From our visit on 9/3/2013

5480

[giodap]

Ferrari making significant progress with F1 simulator
By Edd Straw Wednesday, November 6th 2013, 16:31 GMT

Ferrari F1 2013

Ferrari has made significant improvements to its Formula 1 simulator this season according to engineering director Pat Fry.

Pedro de la Rosa joined Ferrari as a development driver at the start of the year to assist with the development of the driver-in-the-loop simulator, an area where Ferrari is playing catch-up compared to its rivals, in particular McLaren and Red Bull.

Fry believes that, while simulator development will always be an ongoing process for all teams, Ferrari is in better shape than it was at the start of the season.

When asked by AUTOSPORT about how the simulator technology is progressing, Fry replied: "Pedro has made a great contribution to the efforts we have made in that area and I think things have come on quite a lot.

"You will never get a simulator to be exactly like a car on the track, but I think we have made some reasonable improvements in the visuals, the cuing - all the difficult bits of trying to get the right feedback to the driver.

"Are we where we would like to be? No, I don't think anybody would ever say it [a simulator] is perfect.

"We have made some good gains, but we will still be constantly developing that forever."

The simulator is being used to work on the 2014 car, particularly the way the new 1.6-litre V6 turbo engines are used.

"There is a huge amount of work that you can do: you can work out the aero characteristcs, downforce levels, drag levels that you might want," said Fry.

Ferrari F1 2013

"There are all the power unit strategies and stuff like that - from the speed you run in qualifying to the speed in the race, the difference is huge.

"So there's a lot of work on that and trying to work out what are the best techniques.

"I'm sure we could carry on using the simulator every day from now until Christmas and still be learning about the engine."

[PURE PASSION]

Just saw this!!!!
I'm not quite sure if i love it or hate it!!!!!:Hmm:Hmm
Your opinion?
5488

[Tifoso]

Hideous :-)

[Hornet]

The current white stripe is prefect, No need to have the top white like that. That just doesn't look right for a Ferrari :-E

[diego_alunan]

i cant wait for next season.. im sick and tired of seb.. he's a great driver but we need to beat them.. hope we can have a solid beginning of the season.

[Hermann]

Just saw this!!!!
I'm not quite sure if i love it or hate it!!!!!:Hmm:Hmm
Your opinion?
5488

I love it! It looks mean! Even if its missing a bit of red....

[Hermann]

i cant wait for next season.. im sick and tired of seb.. he's a great driver but we need to beat them.. hope we can have a solid beginning of the season.

One day that 'great driver' will just look at two Ferraris from behind. Can't wait.

[stefa]

Just saw this!!!!
I'm not quite sure if i love it or hate it!!!!!:Hmm:Hmm
Your opinion?
5488

In my humble opinion, Ferrari F1 cars should ALWAYS be RED, and nothing more. No white, no black, just RED!

[Katu]

tiny bit too white, if it's fast(er) then i can forgive that

[Bubbles]

i cant wait for next season.. im sick and tired of seb.. he's a great driver but we need to beat them.. hope we can have a solid beginning of the season.

I can't wait for 2015, because Ferrari can't solve their design problems in just twelve months. But, if progress is made during 2014, then they might take at least the WDC the next year.

EDIT: I am a bit worried about the rumors that the new wind-tunnel is working. I think it's been like that for the last four years, where as soon as the season ends, Ferrari start talking about how good something works for them - be it working methodology, or whatever. I hope it's not a PR stunt to show that things are going. Telling the press the new wind-tunnel is working okay tells me they're just interested in their image.

It's going to be a painful year if they're lying, again. And it's going to be SD's last year at Ferrari, no doubt. This could burn Montezemolo, as well.

[diesel08]

One day that 'great driver' will just look at two Ferraris from behind. Can't wait.

good point, Herman :-):clap

[ManFromMilan]

tiny bit too white, if it's fast(er) then i can forgive that


Ditto

[Jas]

I do like a bit of black it must be said!

[Nova]

Where is that pic from? Anyone know? 1st, all red, Ferrari's are Red. I think the 93 or 94 Ferrari had while similar to the pic, n the car was an absolute stinker.
The nose looks too high, the sidepods dont look large enough to house the new equipment, n that front wing...wow.

[voiko]

I LOVE IT!!!

[PURE PASSION]

Where is that pic from? Anyone know? 1st, all red, Ferrari's are Red. I think the 93 or 94 Ferrari had while similar to the pic, n the car was an absolute stinker.
The nose looks too high, the sidepods dont look large enough to house the new equipment, n that front wing...wow.
It's not the actual F138!!its just saw us some different colors!!!
It's made from the artist Hummer from http://www.deviantart.com/.
He also made the ones of TorroRosso-RedBull-Williams-Jaguar!!!!!
54905489
549154925492

[Rishu]

Somehow I like the current livery. All red is too bland for me, white FW & RW looks much better.

[stefa]

Somehow I like the current livery. All red is too bland for me, white FW & RW looks much better.

I was not quite specific about mine all ed Ferrari F1 car. I liked so much paint scheme in 80's and 90's. Car all red with FW and RW in black!

[F1NAC]

uff black wings and red body. that is very aggressive livery :) and black rims ;)

[stefa]

uff black wings and red body. that is very aggressive livery :) and black rims ;)

You speak about this?
5504

I'll just add that that color scheme with gold reams is killer. By my opinion best F1 cars Ferrari has produced:
1994 - 412T1
5505
1995 - 412T2
5506
Mighty V12 engines.... What symphony the the ears that was... I had that privilege to hear it live at Hungaroring 1995

[Forzi]

It saddens me every time i think about it. Being one of the younger generation fans (turning 20 this December) chances are i, or anyone else from my age group not only won't be hearing a V12 screaming down the Monza straights, but by the looks of it, won't even be able to hear a V10 or a V8 live. Probably will be able to go to see a live race in the next few years, but it will be simply too late, with the V6 landing next year. This is just SO unfair :-s

Darn you FIA :-(

[Hornet]

It saddens me every time i think about it. Being one of the younger generation fans (turning 20 this December) chances are i, or anyone else from my age group not only won't be hearing a V12 screaming down the Monza straights, but by the looks of it, won't even be able to hear a V10 or a V8 live. Probably will be able to go to see a live race in the next few years, but it will be simply too late, with the V6 landing next year. This is just SO unfair :-s

Darn you FIA :-(
Same here. Attending a F1 race is in my list of things to do, but sadly by the time I'm able to do it, all the more powerful engine would be long gone.

V6 just doesn't impress me. Too many road cars uses V6 engines, even the lousy local car producer in my country have a model with V6 engine, there's nothing special about it.

[Nova]

F1 goes thru this every so often, changes everything. I look for a change to 8, 10 V's in Id say about 5 years. Im afraid the 12's days are over, but again,
I may be wrong. But if you look at the history of F1, they like to "shake things up" every so often in an attempt to Make F1 brand new again. So fear not, you should be able to hear screamers at Monza again...you'll just be a bit older.

[Jose Lorca]

It's quite worrying that only Ferrari are concerned about fuel consumption for next year:



Marmorini: "In 2014 the GP could become endurance races"

November 9, 2013 - The limitations on the flow of fuel of the new V6 turbo Power Units continue to be a topic that is holding forth among the various people working in the Circus. For this reason, in recent weeks, the media attention was focused on the problems that arose with the sensor manufactured by Gill Hyspeed on behalf of the AIF and which must be installed on all nine cars in the next season.

The function of this particular is to control the speed of the flow from the reservoir tank is sent to the engine , which is calibrated to adhere to a maximum limit of 100 Kg per hour . Free and at the discretion of the team is how many (of these 100 kg) injected into the combustion chambers. The flow meter will then be used to have no problems with the capacity of tanks and tricks , such as those used in the past in the first turbo was when they were used petrol or frozen balls inside the tank.

Thus, the sensor Gill Hyspeed check the actual amount of fuel that will be used in the race and will be bound by the limits imposed by the new regulation, which sees a decrease from the current 150 to 100 kg in 2014. The problem arose during the summer is married to the wrong calibration tolerances that bring the sensor to develop a greater margin of error in the calculation al'1, 5% (data collected during testing at Silverstone, while officially had to be set on 0, 5% . Interviewed in this regard from the newspaper "Corriere dello Sport" , the head of the mechanics of Ferrari Luca Marmorini explained: " I hope that the sensor FIA to check the maximum flow rate of gasoline works better as has happened so far, because otherwise it would create disparities between the motors, even within the same team . May we all rely on the same amount of fuel is the heart of the new regulation " . A real puzzle that is presented to technicians, because the aggravating circumstance on the difficulties measurement, is characterized by the variation between a type of petrol and the other.

Returning then to the discourse of planning in consumption in the race, the true variation in terms of what we can see on the track in spite of the actual values ​​in the field and mechanical reliability, Marmorini it says quite worried : "I have doubts sporty appearance: the limit of 100 kg of fuel could transform the GP in endurance tests. In the first part of the race, someone could pass the time and then push hard on the finish . The risk is there, especially on tracks like Australia and Canada, where the gas will be enough to fatigue. The risk is distorting the Formula 1 " . Assuming a scenario like this, it could happen to also see small teams give everything in front in the early stages of the race, then stop being run out of fuel . A bit like when in Formula 1 at the time of the race refueling, you qualified it with gasoline to getting a time limit relief or the pole, and then stop after a few laps. This logic will certainly be different for the big teams, which again according to reports Marmorini, they will try to balance the strategies: "On a GP 60 laps, one could imagine saving 20 laps and pulling 40" - concludes the Tuscan engineer talking Grand Prix in which we may see in 2014.

http://www.f1passion.it/2013/11/f1-marmorini-preoccupato-per-le-norme-2014-sui-limiti-di-carburante/

Compare that to Renault (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110696) and Mercedes. (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/197139/1/brawn_downplays_fuel_saving_fears.html)

[stefa]

We'll see it in just couple of months.
I don't like what some big heads are doing to F1...

[Nova]

It's quite worrying that only Ferrari are concerned about fuel consumption for next year:




Compare that to Renault (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110696) and Mercedes. (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/197139
/1/brawn_downplays_fuel_saving_fears.html)

Mabey they simply choose not to say anything, but I think Ferrari are not alone. Also, the point they may be giving is the
"turning into endurance races" which in essence is not what Formula 1 is supposed to be. Now if they didnt have any fuel consumption, that would be more like true F1.
And truthfully, why impose such a ludicrous rule?

[abbottcostello]

Going after the eco-racer fan base!

Soon the races will be hyper-mile events, long straights will be used for coasting or KERS... driver lifts off accelerator & solenoid cuts off fuel flow... turbos will become air compressors - filling up tanks of compressed air to be released for aero effect in corners... bicycle wheel width to cut down resistance... ugh, what a sordid picture of "racing". I could not have even imagined 0.01% of these new rules when I started watching F1 those many years ago.


"There will definitely be some lift and coast type behaviour, because it is physics that make it fundamentally the most fuel efficient way to save fuel, and we shouldn't shirk saying it." - Renault Sport's deputy managing director Rob White. :-E:-E:-E

[Gerhard Berger]

Mabey they simply choose not to say anything, but I think Ferrari are not alone. Also, the point they may be giving is the
"turning into endurance races" which in essence is not what Formula 1 is supposed to be. Now if they didnt have any fuel consumption, that would be more like true F1.
And truthfully, why impose such a ludicrous rule?

I don't mind different engines having different fuel consumptions (that is part of the competition). What is ridiculous is the rule saying you can only have a max of 100kg of fuel to start the race. If a team has a more fuel efficient engine than others, then they should be able to cable less fuel at the start (as Red Bull do) while if a team has a less fuel efficient engine then they should be able to carry more fuel and take the weight penalty that comes with that.

[mirafiori]

I don't mind different engines having different fuel consumptions (that is part of the competition). What is ridiculous is the rule saying you can only have a max of 100kg of fuel to start the race. If a team has a more fuel efficient engine than others, then they should be able to cable less fuel at the start (as Red Bull do) while if a team has a less fuel efficient engine then they should be able to carry more fuel and take the weight penalty that comes with that.

You make a good point, anyway testing next year is going to be very interesting, lets just hope our engineers have given us the best engine package for 2014.

[Nova]

I don't mind different engines having different fuel consumptions (that is part of the competition). What is ridiculous is the rule saying you can only have a max of 100kg of fuel to start the race. If a team has a more fuel efficient engine than others, then they should be able to cable less fuel at the start (as Red Bull do) while if a team has a less fuel efficient engine then they should be able to carry more fuel and take the weight penalty that comes with that.

My point is that F1, in some way, shape or form, should still be the pinnacle of motorsport. If people want to watch endurance racing, watch Lemans, if people want to watch fuel limited races, watch Formula E..but to impose rules such as this on what is..was..may be...the highest form of motorsport in the world??

[Ken]

My point is that F1, in some way, shape or form, should still be the pinnacle of motorsport. If people want to watch endurance racing, watch Lemans, if people want to watch fuel limited races, watch Formula E..but to impose rules such as this on what is..was..may be...the highest form of motorsport in the world??

I agree totaly. :thumb

And the only way for our younger F1 fans to hear a screaming V8 or V10 will be to travel to one of the many "Nostalgia " events. At least there they can get a taste and us old grumpies can go and reminisce with our tales and memories of the good old days :pass:pass

[stefa]

Formula 1 teams worried about 'ugly' 2014 cars

Formula 1 teams are concerned that the 2014 technical regulations are forcing them into 'ugly' designs with hooked nose sections, as shown by this AUTOSPORT image.

The rules for next season require a high chassis of 525mm and a low nose tip at 185mm.

But the regulations only demand a relatively small nose tip cross-section, and teams will want to minimise the width of this area to improve air flow under the chassis.

That raises the prospect of slender, drooping nose tip extensions to meet minimum rules requirements for this section, protruding from a higher, more bulky, section that will pass crash tests and fit teams' aerodynamic needs.

While not all teams are believed to be heading down this design route, it is understood that several leading outfits believe it is the best solution.

AUTOSPORT understands that some senior Formula 1 technical personnel have already called for changes to improve aesthetics, but this was not successful due to a lack of agreement on the need to do something.

An FIA technical directive has also been issued ruling out an alternative nose solution that was put forward with a request for clarification.

Red Bull design chief Adrian Newey and McLaren sporting director Sam Michael have admitted that the 2014 cars are likely to be "ugly" due to the front impact structure.

"The low nose is not a problem," Michael explained.

"The problem is the vagaries in the way you get through the crash test - and the teams will mostly be going down one solution.

"It is not because of the chassis height."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111262

If this is even close to truth than cars are going to be even more uglier than in 2012 :-)

[Ken]

Man as I said in another thread stop worrying about the "looks " if there is an advantage to be gained.

I will take performance over ugly anytime and besides, Ferrari have always followed the Italian principle, "if you cant hide it make a feature of it "

[stefa]

Man as I said in another thread stop worrying about the "looks " if there is an advantage to be gained.

I will take performance over ugly anytime and besides, Ferrari have always followed the Italian principle, "if you cant hide it make a feature of it "

I myself is always repeating LDM words on 1995 challenger presentation: "I don't mind if it is ugly as long it is fast and reliable!"
But that drawing, I hope they all got it wrong is hideous!

[WS6TransAm01]

It saddens me every time i think about it. Being one of the younger generation fans (turning 20 this December) chances are i, or anyone else from my age group not only won't be hearing a V12 screaming down the Monza straights, but by the looks of it, won't even be able to hear a V10 or a V8 live. Probably will be able to go to see a live race in the next few years, but it will be simply too late, with the V6 landing next year. This is just SO unfair :-s

Darn you FIA :-(

Never got to hear a V12...

Got to hear V10's once in Indy in 2005 but only saw 6 of them race lol. At least got to see them all in Practice and Quali

Heard the V8's in 06, 07 and 12. Will be sad to see them go.

It really is a shame.

[AfterLife]

considering me as a new generation of F1 fan ((beginning in the middle of 2011 Chinese GP)) i am perfectly ok with these new engine sounds despite hearing all V12, V10. :lou

[sachin]

guys will we be having a official launch of the 2014 engines like Renault or Mercedes?
The rumours around other forums is Mercedes>Reanault>=Ferrari (engine's)
:furious
Hope it aint true and the order is reverse of this:thumb

[stefa]

guys will we be having a official launch of the 2014 engines like Renault or Mercedes?
The rumours around other forums is Mercedes>Reanault>=Ferrari (engine's)
:furious
Hope it aint true and the order is reverse of this:thumb

These are all just rumors....
Wait a little bit more and we will see

[Hermann]

For Ferrari its traditional all about the engines, and now we are supposed to have the worst engine? That is just.....:rotfl

[giodap]

guys will we be having a official launch of the 2014 engines like Renault or Mercedes?
The rumours around other forums is Mercedes>Reanault>=Ferrari (engine's)
:furious
Hope it aint true and the order is reverse of this:thumb

what worries me, is ferrari are apparently the cheapest power unit next year. so why are teams who are struggling a bit financially not looking at ferrari engines? e.g williams, lotus, caterham? they are all spending more on either merc or renault engines... so why are they doing this? i think we have marussia because of ties with bianchi, and we have sauber because they have debt issues with us.
i hope im reading this wrong :/

[FerrariF60]

what worries me, is ferrari are apparently the cheapest power unit next year. so why are teams who are struggling a bit financially not looking at ferrari engines? e.g williams, lotus, caterham? they are all spending more on either merc or renault engines... so why are they doing this? i think we have marussia because of ties with bianchi, and we have sauber because they have debt issues with us.
i hope im reading this wrong :/

i for one TRULY hope that the Ferrari engine will be the BEST on the grid (after all, Ferrari is ALL about engines, it's ALWAYS been that way....the old man ENZO may he rest in PEACE, was ALL OUT about engines and dont' think that phylosophy has changed ONE bit) and come next year this WHOLE engine talk will end up blowing in everyone else's face inculding all teams that opted for a different engine...

in today's era of v8 engines Ferrari had their hands tied up by the rules as engines development were frozen, and back in the day it did not matter if it consumed more fuel as back then it was unlimited fueling and re-fueling was allowed...

but come the next gen. V6 engine, i am sure that the engine dept. engineers will do everything in their power to come up with ONE SWEET, EFFICIENT, FAST AND RELIABLE ENGINE....

forza FERRARI...

[Hermann]

i for one TRULY hope that the Ferrari engine will be the BEST on the grid (after all, Ferrari is ALL about engines, it's ALWAYS been that way....the old man ENZO may he rest in PEACE, was ALL OUT about engines and dont' think that phylosophy has changed ONE bit) and come next year this WHOLE engine talk will end up blowing in everyone else's face inculding all teams that opted for a different engine...

in today's era of v8 engines Ferrari had their hands tied up by the rules as engines development were frozen, and back in the day it did not matter if it consumed more fuel as back then it was unlimited fueling and re-fueling was allowed...

but come the next gen. V6 engine, i am sure that the engine dept. engineers will do everything in their power to come up with ONE SWEET, EFFICIENT, FAST AND RELIABLE ENGINE....

forza FERRARI...

Thats what i mean. Old Ferrari 'philosophy'. And it would somehow be highly ironic if the moment it becomes more about the engine, Ferrari would fail.

Now is the time to stand up to their words 'if we could only develop the engine...', don't you think?

[chris.gotfunk]

i for one TRULY hope that the Ferrari engine will be the BEST on the grid (after all, Ferrari is ALL about engines, it's ALWAYS been that way....the old man ENZO may he rest in PEACE, was ALL OUT about engines and dont' think that phylosophy has changed ONE bit) and come next year this WHOLE engine talk will end up blowing in everyone else's face inculding all teams that opted for a different engine...

in today's era of v8 engines Ferrari had their hands tied up by the rules as engines development were frozen, and back in the day it did not matter if it consumed more fuel as back then it was unlimited fueling and re-fueling was allowed...

but come the next gen. V6 engine, i am sure that the engine dept. engineers will do everything in their power to come up with ONE SWEET, EFFICIENT, FAST AND RELIABLE ENGINE....

forza FERRARI...

I am with you here, but don't forget that Ferrari were producing V12's, V10's and V8's in their roadcars during those eras as well... I don't recall us making a turbo V6 anytime recently and I think that hurts. Merc and Renault have turbo V6's currently in the market... not to mention Honda who will join the fight in 2015. While Ferrari IS and WAS about the engines, times have sadly changed and I do think we might be behind the current knowledge curve. I hope I am wrong and we can make a field screaming turbo V6, but I am holding back my optimism.

[PURE PASSION]

According to this http://www.f1sport.it/2013/11/14/f1-la-leggerezza-del-motore-ferrari-mette-paura-agli-avversari/ Ferrari have made a very light engine and this have scare the opponents!!!!!:clap

[ManFromMilan]

Merc and Renault have turbo V6's currently in the market... not to mention Honda who will join the fight in 2015. While Ferrari IS and WAS about the engines, times have sadly changed and I do think we might be behind the current knowledge curve.



Sadly( for them ) Merc, Honda and Renault will not have an advantage from their road car engine experience.

Although they will get excellent advertising for their V6 turbo engine cars when F1 switches to the V6 engines.

[giodap]

According to this http://www.f1sport.it/2013/11/14/f1-la-leggerezza-del-motore-ferrari-mette-paura-agli-avversari/ Ferrari have made a very light engine and this have scare the opponents!!!!!:clap

i hope this has some truth behind it!

[Sab_g]

According to this http://www.f1sport.it/2013/11/14/f1-la-leggerezza-del-motore-ferrari-mette-paura-agli-avversari/ Ferrari have made a very light engine and this have scare the opponents!!!!!:clap

Im pretty sure all engines have to be a minimum weight? cant see this making a difference, all speculation at this point i think our engine will be as good as anyone else's

[GrndLkNatv]

Im pretty sure all engines have to be a minimum weight? cant see this making a difference, all speculation at this point i think our engine will be as good as anyone else's

The car has a minimum weight, but not the engine from what I know. By having the engine extra light you can then ballast the car to your advantage.

[abbottcostello]

He asked Ferrari "When (will) you present this new V6?" Answer "Never ...":thumb

Renault powered teams have asked the minimum weight be raised about 5 kg, I like to hear that!!!

[diesel08]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=619205668122965&set=a.425754730801394.91615.403425923034275&type=1&theater

[Brakefade]

The car has a minimum weight, but not the engine from what I know. By having the engine extra light you can then ballast the car to your advantage.

True, lightness in F1 simply means more ballast, which is a very good thing. :clap

[Bubbles]

True, lightness in F1 simply means more ballast, which is a very good thing. :clap

No, the engine has a minimum weight. Currently, it's 95Kg, but the 2014 "Power Units" have to be 145Kg minimum. I don't know if that includes the battery pack.

[Greig]

That could mean ours is 145kg while others are heavier though. It's minimum weight, not maximum.

[RedRebel40]

Guys we know nothing about the 2014 engines yet, if some journalists says our engines delivers 1200 HP on race trim then its just that just a saying. People on the net are saying that the merc engine is the strongest turbo engine but noone knows for sure. I don't think the engine builders know how strong and powerfull the other engines are so its just a very wild guess. Lets wait the first GP and see out ourselfs :)

[mirafiori]

Guys we know nothing about the 2014 engines yet, if some journalists says our engines delivers 1200 HP on race trim then its just that just a saying. People on the net are saying that the merc engine is the strongest turbo engine but noone knows for sure. I don't think the engine builders know how strong and powerfull the other engines are so its just a very wild guess. Lets wait the first GP and see out ourselfs :)

We may even have an idea how good or bad the engine is at testing, but yes you are right lets wait and see?

[stefa]

Guys we know nothing about the 2014 engines yet, if some journalists says our engines delivers 1200 HP on race trim then its just that just a saying. People on the net are saying that the merc engine is the strongest turbo engine but noone knows for sure. I don't think the engine builders know how strong and powerfull the other engines are so its just a very wild guess. Lets wait the first GP and see out ourselfs :)

As I have said these are all just rumors! Not paying much attention to them!

[Bubbles]

Guys we know nothing about the 2014 engines yet, if some journalists says our engines delivers 1200 HP on race trim then its just that just a saying. People on the net are saying that the merc engine is the strongest turbo engine but noone knows for sure. I don't think the engine builders know how strong and powerfull the other engines are so its just a very wild guess. Lets wait the first GP and see out ourselfs :)

This is all hype. People think the Mercedes is going to be the most powerful because the current Merc V8 has the most power, though it's maybe ten horsepower at most. Hulkenberg drove both the Ferrari and the Mercedes and he said the Merc has more power at the top end, whereas the Ferrari is more driveable. As for the Renault V6, well, people wouldn't be talking about Renault if it waren't for Newey's excellent aero all these years. Last year I read that Newey wes concerned about the V6 program at Renault, he felt they were way behind schedule. Ferrari, meanwhile, kept silent.

Mercedes want the hype surrounding their engine to build up to astronomic levels because that will bring them long-term contracts - like Williams and Force India. My guess is the Ferrari is going to be the best V6. Maranello knows how to do a proper high-performance engine. Just look at their road-car engines. Awards every year.

[Hornet]

I would agree that our rival engine maker certainly jump aboard the hype train with all the promotional sound and picture release. Even Honda didn't want to be left out.

Hopefully we silently trash them next year. :-)

[Jose Lorca]

Extracts from the press conference:


Three of the gentlemen here are, of course, in new roles, one within the same team, in Nick's case, but in Paddy and James within different teams, so plenty to talk about. James, can I start with you? How big is the job you've taken on at Ferrari and what's it going to take to get back to winning ways?

James ALLISON: I think technical director at any Formula One team is a very big job, it certainly doesn't leave room for much else than the job in your life, Ferrari is an extremely prestigious Formula One team with a lot of resource and an extremely high level of expectation. There is really no result other than winning that is good enough at Ferrari. So there is a lot of pressure to make sure I play my part in achieving that, but it is a wholly realistic ambition. It's a team with the kit, with the resource, with the people and with the drivers to get the job done, so looking forward to being there when it happens.

You've been in the post for a few months now, what's your assessment of what you've seen so far? Have you seen where changes need to be made and have you already started making those changes?

JA: I've, first of all, been very fortunate to arrive at Ferrari at a point in their cycle when a lot of the changes necessary to return to the front rank - I mean right at the front rank, i.e. winning championships - a lot of the changes necessary to do that have been put in place by Pat Fry. I think I'm particularly lucky to have arrived and been able to benefit from those investments rather than having to start them from scratch. There is much more to be done but I'm a lucky chap to be picking up where I am.

Q: (Dan Knutson - Auto Action and National Speedsport News) And the team's target?

JA: Ferrari's target is always to win. As far as how next year will work out, I think that the size of the rule change means that there will be some unanticipated reshuffling of the pack in terms of where all the teams will find themselves in the pecking order. However, I think - notwithstanding the size of the changes - over the years it's been fairly clear that the teams, although they're hundreds of people in different places end up producing cars independent of one another that come together and are very competitive with one another and I would expect that to be true next year as well. I would also imagine that the first half of next year is likely to be heavily affected by reliability. Next year's rule changes are big enough, just in terms of the configuration of the car but they also place a much much higher burden of reliability on us as well.

[Jas]

Meanwhile, Marca correspondent Marco Canseco claims the 2007 Red Bull tested week for 'filming' purposes at the Los Arcos Navarra circuit may have been wearing a low nose, as per the 2014 regulations.

[Rob]

2014 rule changes - narrow front wings 18 November 2013
http://i43.tinypic.com/154x66b.jpg
For 2014 the width of the front wing will be reduced by 15cm. This will alter the alignment of the wing relative to the front tyres. Previously the wing's 180cm width was the same as the car's total width, so it was relatively easy to design front wing endplates to minimise the drag produced by the tyres. Next year, to compensate for the wing's reduced width the endplates will be even more curved on the outside so that they can still spill airflow towards the outside of the tyres, as you can see in this simple drawing of a 2014 front wing.

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2013/0/1126.html

[Rob]

2014 rule changes - ERS battery position, exhausts, rear wing 18 November 2013
http://i42.tinypic.com/6rr404.jpg
For next season the amount of fuel that can be used in a race is limited to 100kg. Meanwhile, the batteries for the Energy Recovery Systems (ERS) must weigh between 20 and 25kg and be contained in single pack (not split, as Red Bull have done in recent years - upper drawing). This means it will be necessary to place the battery pack inside the fuel cell (red arrow, right). Also shown here are the exhaust tailpipes (red arrow, centre left), which must extend at least 170 to 185mm behind the rear axle line (and have a single exit). Another difference for 2014 is that the rear wing can no longer include a lower, beam wing. This means that vertical pillars (red arrow, left) will once more be used to fix the rear wing to the car.

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2013/0/1127.html

[Nova]

Great posts Rob, Thanks.

[Hermann]

2014 rule changes - ERS battery position, exhausts, rear wing 18 November 2013

For next season the amount of fuel that can be used in a race is limited to 100kg. Meanwhile, the batteries for the Energy Recovery Systems (ERS) must weigh between 20 and 25kg and be contained in single pack (not split, as Red Bull have done in recent years - upper drawing). This means it will be necessary to place the battery pack inside the fuel cell (red arrow, right). Also shown here are the exhaust tailpipes (red arrow, centre left), which must extend at least 170 to 185mm behind the rear axle line (and have a single exit). Another difference for 2014 is that the rear wing can no longer include a lower, beam wing. This means that vertical pillars (red arrow, left) will once more be used to fix the rear wing to the car.

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2013/0/1127.html

Interesting. This is going to be a real challenge for Newey. Can't wait to see which rabbit he will pull out of his magical hat this time.

[FA fan]

Interesting. This is going to be a real challenge for Newey. Can't wait to see which rabbit he will pull out of his magical hat this time.

Hopefully an ugly fat and unstable rabbit,with no down force!!

[Muhammad Ansib]

Hopefully an ugly fat and unstable rabbit,with no down force!!

Mr Rory Bryne, Mr James Allison may we have a very good and the fastest car in 2014..IA:pray:pray:pray:pray and for once our drivers lead from the front and for a change..

[Brakefade]

I hope the RB car is a pig, just to see Vettel cry every race.

[ManFromMilan]

I hope the RB car is a pig, just to see Vettel cry every race.



Yeah and no more sweet inspirational radio messages. So sweet it makes me want to loose my lunch:-??

I'm sure he'll bitch and moan when it is not going his way next year for sure.

[GrndLkNatv]

We may even have an idea how good or bad the engine is at testing, but yes you are right lets wait and see?

The new engine will be great!! I visited with Luca on Sept 3rd, and after that visit, I have no worries.. :-) In regard to the total fuel load, due to the fuel restrictions all teams will have engines that produce power and torque up to around 13k rpm, but after that rpm no more bhp will be generated. Yes the car can rev to 15k rpm, but it will be flat in terms of bhp and torque. So the efficiency of the engine is key and I can honestly tell you that the new V6 from Maranello will be amongst the best. In regard to testing, the test group can simulate the entire seasons worth of tracks, in fact all teams are doing this, it's a normal part of an F1 teams test routines. Remember this coming year you get 8 gears forward, and you cannot change the ratios once you set them at the first of the season. In regard to this, you will only see 8th gear used at Monza by most teams.. Also remember that due to this non optimized gear selection, the engine must produce more torque in order to drive out of the slow speed sections quicker due to not have optimized short gear ratios that allow the engine to run at it's peak all the time. In other words the engine must have a broader power band, and with the Turbo it can be accomplished. Anyway, lots of cool developments coming up this year, not only recovering braking energy but also engine energy..

[giodap]

The new engine will be great!! I visited with Luca on Sept 3rd, and after that visit, I have no worries.. :-) In regard to the total fuel load, due to the fuel restrictions all teams will have engines that produce power and torque up to around 13k rpm, but after that rpm no more bhp will be generated. Yes the car can rev to 15k rpm, but it will be flat in terms of bhp and torque. So the efficiency of the engine is key and I can honestly tell you that the new V6 from Maranello will be amongst the best. In regard to testing, the test group can simulate the entire seasons worth of tracks. Remember this coming year you get 8 gears forward, and you cannot change the ratios once you set them at the first of the season. In regard to this, you will only see 8th gear used at Monza by most teams.. Also remember that due to this non optimized gear selection, the engine must produce more torque in order to drive out of the slow speed sections quicker due to not have optimized short gear ratios that allow the engine to run at it's peak all the time. In other words the engine must have a broader power band, and with the Turbo it can be accomplished. Anyway, lots of cool developments coming up this year, not only recovering braking energy but also engine energy..

what do you mean you visited with luca?

[giodap]

just a casual day out then...? lol! so did luca tell you that the new v6 is as sweet as the v8's and v12's ferrari are currently producing?

[GrndLkNatv]

It wasn't a casual day, a day of meetings.. No, Luca didn't say anything about that...... All I can tell you is that you have nothing to worry about.. Since Luca has been back from Toyota, Ferrari have been perfect in the engine department!

[giodap]

well if your at ease then im at ease... but come winter testing, if the engines a dog then ill come knocking:lol

[GrndLkNatv]

I have no worries... I am more worried about Aero than the powertrain.

[giodap]

yeah i think we could lose out to redbull and merc in terms of aero. theyre both very strong in that department. hopefully mr allison will pull a few rabbits out the hat for us next year

[GrndLkNatv]

Yeppers, Renault ran around half a season without enough bhp a couple years back but did well anyway due to their aero efficiency.. I am sure the team are working on it at this very moment but until you see working on the track, you have to worry a little..

[mirafiori]

The new engine will be great!! I visited with Luca on Sept 3rd, and after that visit, I have no worries.. :-) In regard to the total fuel load, due to the fuel restrictions all teams will have engines that produce power and torque up to around 13k rpm, but after that rpm no more bhp will be generated. Yes the car can rev to 15k rpm, but it will be flat in terms of bhp and torque. So the efficiency of the engine is key and I can honestly tell you that the new V6 from Maranello will be amongst the best. In regard to testing, the test group can simulate the entire seasons worth of tracks, in fact all teams are doing this, it's a normal part of an F1 teams test routines. Remember this coming year you get 8 gears forward, and you cannot change the ratios once you set them at the first of the season. In regard to this, you will only see 8th gear used at Monza by most teams.. Also remember that due to this non optimized gear selection, the engine must produce more torque in order to drive out of the slow speed sections quicker due to not have optimized short gear ratios that allow the engine to run at it's peak all the time. In other words the engine must have a broader power band, and with the Turbo it can be accomplished. Anyway, lots of cool developments coming up this year, not only recovering braking energy but also engine energy..
Thank you very much for some inside information, lets hope what you say is correct:pray, we Ferrari fans need the 2014 engine to be amongst the very best. When you say Luca you mean Luca Marmorini, who for me is a genius when it comes to Engines. Thanks again for the info:thumb

[Salvador Dali]

First details of 2014 noses emerge
(This entry was posted in Uncategorized by scarbsf1)

Full article: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111262

5528

Dear God I hope not! :-s :-( :furious

[Hornet]

We'll have to endure that for 1 year, and the FIA will change the rule again to give the cars a nicer nose. Just like the stepped nose.

[Salvador Dali]

Yes I guess so, but still another year of ugly cars cozz of the FIA... grrrr...

[Jas]

WHY ARE THEY NOT TAKING OUR STAFF...WAAAA....HAHA, IM SURE THEY ARE TRYING!




Honda, to return to Formula 1 in 2015 as an engine supplier to McLaren, has begun to poach staff from rival manufacturers currently involved in the sport.

That is the claim of Mercedes’ motor sport chief Toto Wolff, who said that the Japanese marque’s quest for talented and experienced Formula 1 staff is “quite civilised” at the moment.

Wolff told Germany’s Auto Bild that Honda’s moves to poach Mercedes engineers is “quite normal”.

“We’re operating in a competitive environment, and I think everyone is looking for the best engineers,” he said.

“So it is not unexpected,” Wolff insisted. “We know what contracts are running out, and if we want to keep them, we will work on new ones in good time.”

Wolff refused to criticise the behaviour of McLaren’s 2015 engine supplier, who have been absent from the grid since the disastrous final two seasons as a full works Honda team in 2007 and 2008.

“At the moment we have the feeling that it is quite civilised,” said the Austrian, referring to Honda’s efforts to poach engineers.

“We do not have the impression that our engineers are excessively concerned. However, this could happen. They (Honda) need to put their programme together bit by bit.

“I could imagine at some stage their efforts to court staff becoming more aggressive,” added Wolff. (GMM)

[Nero Horse]

When is the winter testing going to start? January?

[Alonso14]

When is the winter testing going to start? January?

28-31 January - Jerez, Spain
19-22 February - Bahrain International Circuit, Bahrain
27 February-2 March - Bahrain International Circuit, Bahrain

[Nero Horse]

28-31 January - Jerez, Spain
19-22 February - Bahrain International Circuit, Bahrain
27 February-2 March - Bahrain International Circuit, Bahrain

Ok, thanks

[LivingHitokiri]

I think i did read somewhere that there may be a December 2014 tyre test hold by Pirelli but i have lost the track of it ,anyone got any lead or news on that ?
Also,how is the work at the wind-tunnel going ?

[Hornet]

I think i did read somewhere that there may be a December 2014 tyre test hold by Pirelli but i have lost the track of it ,anyone got any lead or news on that ?
Also,how is the work at the wind-tunnel going ?

According to Sky, Pirelli wants that December test to help them prepare the 2014 tires, otherwise they might just make super conservative tires for the early part of 2014. But I'm not sure if the teams have agree to conduct that test.

I'd imagine now it's more important than ever. We did not get any test for the 2014 prototype in Brazil due to the weather. I do hope the teams agree.

[LivingHitokiri]

According to Sky, Pirelli wants that December test to help them prepare the 2014 tires, otherwise they might just make super conservative tires for the early part of 2014. But I'm not sure if the teams have agree to conduct that test.

I'd imagine now it's more important than ever. We did not get any test for the 2014 prototype in Brazil due to the weather. I do hope the teams agree.

Cheers Hornet.
I think the teams will agree to it only because of the importance you mentioned,im sure the teams will need all the data they can get for the 2014 car since together with the fuel consumption issue with the engine these will be two of the most important factors for the next year.
Im really concerned about our engine being "greedy" in terms of fuel but i hope the boys at Maranello will manage it!

[medeni73]

Domenicali said in Brasil that our V6-engine WILL be presented around end of the year...

[Nova]

Well we could show up at the tests w/the new powertrain, right? So it could be beneficial...They can disquise the car...I think ....

[Jose Lorca]

Autosprint joins Marca and Corriere dello Sport in saying that we will abandon our pullrod front suspension.

http://www.f1zone.net/news/ferrari-to-abandon-pullrod-layout-for-2014/21344/

[AfterLife]

Autosprint joins Marca and Corriere dello Sport in saying that we will abandon our pullrod front suspension.

http://www.f1zone.net/news/ferrari-to-abandon-pullrod-layout-for-2014/21344/

I always thought by myself that pushrod suspension is the best option Because analyzing Rory Byrne cars throughout the years shows he always has used pushrod suspension for his designed cars and of course Adrian newey always uses pushrod suspension.

Even always i have problem with Ferrari's high nose cars in the last 4 years. They were so high comparing to likes of RedBull, Mclaren, Lotus.

[FrankAlfa]

One must understand the gains vs. loses in each design. Both Push Rod and Pull Rod design have their virtues. It is in the execution of the design appliction that will provide either benefit or failure of its use.

[Kiwi Nick]

"It is in the execution of the design appliction that will provide either benefit or failure of its use."

I'm pretty certain I got that in a fortune cookie about three years ago. BTW, the lottery numbers didn't work.

[Nova]

Autosprint joins Marca and Corriere dello Sport in saying that we will abandon our pullrod front suspension.

http://www.f1zone.net/news/ferrari-to-abandon-pullrod-layout-for-2014/21344/

I hope they do..there hasnt been a wcc car that ever ran that susp..and while Ferrari did better w/it than Mac did, I still felt it wasnt the right move.

[Alonso14]

One must understand the gains vs. loses in each design. Both Push Rod and Pull Rod design have their virtues. It is in the execution of the design appliction that will provide either benefit or failure of its use.

I don't think it's the execution of the suspension type as such but rather how it complements the overall design of the car. The reason the Red Bull worked so well is not simply down to suspension/front wing design/even Coanda execution but rather how well every single bit of the car was contributing to the overall idea and design of Newey and his team. Big game-changers like Mass Damper, Off-throttle exhaust blowing and double diffuser doesn't come up so often; an F1 car is an extremely complex beast. That's why everyone struggled to match Red Bull in the 09-13 regulations or Ferrari during the MSC era.

[FrankAlfa]

@ Alonso14,

You are thinking in very "Simplistic" terms. Red Bull has been doing much more than using the whole car as an interactive tool. The speed Red Bull has had for so many years has been the results of the things we do NOT see as well. I thnk only the FIA knows about what they have been doing and have not wished to fully enforce the rules. Do you remember the Engine Mapping they were told to stop last year, how about the Flexing / Dragging front wing, the Inclined Chassis, the "strange" engine sound??? Looking back there have been many things that Red Bull have "exploited" for the past 5 years. During all that time and of all the things Red Bull have tried on the race car, they have NEVER BEEN DOCKED POInTS NOR HAVE THEY BEEN EVER PENALIZED! Very Strange. Why do you think they have never been docked points and have never been penalized??? Very Strange Indeed!

[Alonso14]

The engine mapping was poor wording of the rule and they were smart, yes smart, enough to use it. If the rule states: "At 0% throttle application the engine must receive 0% throttle, at 50% - 50% and at 100% - 100%." This leave gaps between 1% - 49% and 51%-99% which the rulebook doesn't talk ban - hence it was technically legal. If you don't violate the wording of the law then you are within the boundaries of legality. The flexi wings and their control have been tightened in the last couple of years and they have passed all the tests. "Strange" engine sound means absolutely nothing and it doesn't imply wrongdoing automatically. Ferrari engineers didn't push the regulations not because they are extremely moral but because they were unable to.

I do however think that RBR should have been docked points in China, Bahrain and Canada (all in 2012) for having holes in the floor which is not legal. Their "punishment" was to remove them. That's like stealing a car and then your sentence to be to return the car and walk away. But as we know F1 is a political sport. Bernie & co. know that affecting races off the track is bad for the entertainment and viewership, coupled with the fact that Dietrich Mateschitz is a major player with his net worth, obviously they won't get touched. Just like we won't get touched if something similar happens because Ferrari IS Formula One.

And credit where credit is due. Red Bull's technical team has been doing absolutely amazing job. In 2013 they pushed the regulations to places our engineers cannot even imagine, simple as. I hate RBR and Vettel as much as every guy who hates girly Hollywood speeches and lack of competitive balance but on a technical level they were untouchable, especially by our guys.

[Hornet]

Speaking of Ferrari and Twitter.


@InsideFerrari 21m
A special testing day at Fiorano: 2014 car shakedown? Un giorno speciale di test a Fiorano: collaudo per il 2014?
5542


‏@InsideFerrari 6m
Practice starts on the Fiorano straight? - Prove di partenza sul rettilineo di Fiorano?
5543


Maybe Ferrari is just trolling. But it would be exciting if we already have the engine and car ready for a shakedown

[gjoko-mkd]

The engine mapping was poor wording of the rule and they were smart, yes smart, enough to use it. If the rule states: "At 0% throttle application the engine must receive 0% throttle, at 50% - 50% and at 100% - 100%." This leave gaps between 1% - 49% and 51%-99% which the rulebook doesn't talk ban - hence it was technically legal. If you don't violate the wording of the law then you are within the boundaries of legality. The flexi wings and their control have been tightened in the last couple of years and they have passed all the tests. "Strange" engine sound means absolutely nothing and it doesn't imply wrongdoing automatically. Ferrari engineers didn't push the regulations not because they are extremely moral but because they were unable to.

I do however think that RBR should have been docked points in China, Bahrain and Canada (all in 2012) for having holes in the floor which is not legal. Their "punishment" was to remove them. That's like stealing a car and then your sentence to be to return the car and walk away. But as we know F1 is a political sport. Bernie & co. know that affecting races off the track is bad for the entertainment and viewership, coupled with the fact that Dietrich Mateschitz is a major player with his net worth, obviously they won't get touched. Just like we won't get touched if something similar happens because Ferrari IS Formula One.

And credit where credit is due. Red Bull's technical team has been doing absolutely amazing job. In 2013 they pushed the regulations to places our engineers cannot even imagine, simple as. I hate RBR and Vettel as much as every guy who hates girly Hollywood speeches and lack of competitive balance but on a technical level they were untouchable, especially by our guys.

You are totally right:thumb

[FrankAlfa]

No, I disagree completly! No Traction Control means No Traction Control and No Engine Mapping, PERIOD! There is both the Rules as it is written and then there is the Intent of the Rules; BOTH of which the FIA is suppose to enforce! If the FIA wishes to be VERY UNDERHANDED burn all of the teams except Red Bull by allowing Red Bull to break the Written / Intent of the Rules then WHY write the Rule at all. My feeling is that the FIA allowed Red Bull get away with it and chose NOT enforce the Intent of the Rules. Could there be some kind of reason in mind???

[FrankAlfa]

Why Ban Engine Mapping a year earlier when Red Bull was caught doing it and now knowingly allow them to do it??? Maybe the rule was written so all of the OTHER team would not be allowed to do it???

[Hornet]

No, I disagree completly! No Traction Control means No Traction Control and No Engine Mapping, PERIOD! There is both the Rules as it is written and then there is the Intent of the Rules; BOTH of which the FIA is suppose to enforce! If the FIA wishes to be VERY UNDERHANDED burn all of the teams except Red Bull by allowing Red Bull to break the Written / Intent of the Rules then WHY write the Rule at all. My feeling is that the FIA allowed Red Bull get away with it and chose NOT enforce the Intent of the Rules. Could there be some kind of reason in mind???

Well, the technical rules are not written with such blanket statement. It has to define the details.

To my understanding, what the rule outlaws is a close loop system, where it takes an input (wheel spin) and cut the engine accordingly. I believe another term would be active traction control.

As far as using engine mapping to improve traction, it doesn't falls under the banned close loop TC simply because it's not a close loop system.

[Alonso14]

No, I disagree completly! No Traction Control means No Traction Control and No Engine Mapping, PERIOD! There is both the Rules as it is written and then there is the Intent of the Rules; BOTH of which the FIA is suppose to enforce! If the FIA wishes to be VERY UNDERHANDED burn all of the teams except Red Bull by allowing Red Bull to break the Written / Intent of the Rules then WHY write the Rule at all. My feeling is that the FIA allowed Red Bull get away with it and chose NOT enforce the Intent of the Rules. Could there be some kind of reason in mind???

A system that works like TC does not mean it's TC. Traction control is banned but Red Bull did not use it, they made something that reproduced in a way its effect. The rulebook is the law, finding loopholes is what engineers do. You cannot punish someone because the way you formulated the rule was not good enough and someone found a way around it. Just accept it, we were beaten. Comprehensively, I might add.


Why Ban Engine Mapping a year earlier when Red Bull was caught doing it and now knowingly allow them to do it??? Maybe the rule was written so all of the OTHER team would not be allowed to do it???

Engine mapping is not banned.

[Kiwi Nick]

Frank, you are being overly simplistic in your objections to RBR's pushing the limits of design. When the regulations say "no traction control", a prudent person must ask, "What is traction control?", or "What is engine mapping?"

The driver's feet are fundamentally "traction control", but they are obviously not illegal. So, the onus is on the rules makers to define, as precisely as they choose, what constitutes TC, that is to say, they must set the boundaries. They may choose to word their definition loosely or tightly. Loosely if they mean to encourage innovation, tightly if they mean to enforce parity among the teams. The use of a single supplier for tires is the ultimate in tight regulation. Whereas, the old style of specing engines only by displacement is an example of loose regulation that led to V-6, V-8 and V-12 engines competing against one another in the same season. Techniques and devices not outlawed should be considered to be legal. It is the goal of designers to invent or innovate while not crossing the line. To that end, it appears that RBR are the best in the business. If the FIA allow them to do things that you believe to be "illegal" then it is not RBR who have cheated, rather it is the FIA who have cheated every other team that chose not to, or was not clever enough to use the same innovations as RBR.

[Ferris]

I think this whole issue is being complicated for no reason.
Basically everything the f1 engineers do to the cars can be seen as traction control. Almost every aero appendage is designed to improve traction as with almost all mechanical components when your really think about it.

The key question is what inputs are restricted from being used to regulate the power being delivered to rear wheels.
For me there are clear regulations on that and F1 teams then try and look to use other data inputs outside of the restrictions to deliver greater traction. It is up to the FIA to determine if these new idea's should be allowed or not.

With the best budget on the grid i would expect RB to come up with the best and most innovative solutions in all areas of the car, which largely they have done.
As regulations remain stable typically the gap between the teams in terms of pace fall, this has not happened to RB as they had a similar 2013 year to Ferrari's 2004 where their previous year they almost lost the title much like Ferrari did in 2003.

Well done to RB, they are the benchmark, it is up to the others to catch up, not complain about RB breaking the rules as they are not breaking them, they are pushing their interpretation to the limit. Kind of reminds me of another team during 1995-2007. The problem is that many people didn't understand the value of Todt and Brawn until they left. Newey and Horner have learnt from Ferrari whereas we forgot our own play book.

[Sab_g]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od3H6Jxisfk
From f1technical forum, some saying ferrari could be testing next years v6t engine in laferrari test mule?
Definitely not a v12!

[emirBoz]

yeah could be, if it's true sound is the best :)

[emirBoz]

Speaking of Ferrari and Twitter.


5542


5543


Maybe Ferrari is just trolling. But it would be exciting if we already have the engine and car ready for a shakedown

may be turbo engine testing with LaFerrari.

[tifosi1993]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od3H6Jxisfk
From f1technical forum, some saying ferrari could be testing next years v6t engine in laferrari test mule?
Definitely not a v12!

For comparison, here is the sound of LaFerrari's naturally aspirated V12


http://youtu.be/uWySSFyReqY

One thing is clear, that's not a V12. And that whining sound clearly indicates that it's a turbo engine. (And it sounds awesome)

[Sab_g]

While it could be road car development, don't think they would test it with such an open exhaust. Sounds much better than the dyno clips from Renault/merc

[wacc]

That is exactly what they should be doing... using their strong sides - owning the nearby test circuit, manufacturing sports cars and engines. So they should push like hell using every possible opportunity in the engine developement, knowing there are testing restriction in aero developement and they are trailing behind in CFD and windtunnel understanding.

[mirafiori]

That is exactly what they should be doing... using their strong sides - owning the nearby test circuit, manufacturing sports cars and engines. So they should push like hell using every possible opportunity in the engine developement, knowing there are testing restriction in aero developement and they are trailing behind in CFD and windtunnel understanding.

Well said, open the back door the facility is there, we need to push like mad. It was a shame to hear Mercedes had a problem with the 2014 engine which caught fire at there Brackley factory, fire brigade were called out.:dance:dance

[Jose Lorca]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od3H6Jxisfk
From f1technical forum, some saying ferrari could be testing next years v6t engine in laferrari test mule?
Definitely not a v12!
I hope it's our V6 turbo, it sounds great and much better than the trash released by Renault, Mercedes and Honda.

[Hornet]

Thanks for sharing those. Interesting stuff indeed. Certainly sound like there's a different engine in that LaFerrari from the one we use to hear.

One thing I'm curious though, is the test track open to public?

[giodap]

you can hear the turbo winding up. i would be surprised if that was a v12 :Hmm

[Hornet]

Someone at another site also pointed out that there's a top intake scoop in this video, while the LaFerrari design don't have such intake at the top. Certainly looks like this LaFerrari has been modified for something :Hmm

[Fer12]

F1 - McLaren not sure Mercedes to have best engine in 2014
"Will we have a competitive drivetrain?"

Martin Whitmarsh has admitted he is not sure if Mercedes will supply a "competitive" engine in 2014.

According to the paddock grapevine, the German manufacturer has an early performance head-start over its turbo V6-producing rivals Renault and Ferrari.

But McLaren boss Whitmarsh, whose Woking based team will switch to works Honda power for 2015, said the rumours Mercedes will lead the game in 2014 cannot be verified.

"Will we have a competitive drivetrain (in 2014)? I don’t know," he is quoted by Speed Week.

"There are many people in the paddock who seem to know, but I don’t know where they could have got that information from," added Whitmarsh.

"From what I know about Mercedes’ resources and organisation, I am assuming that they have done a good job," he said.

"I believe that we will be competitive," said Whitmarsh. McLaren finished the 2013 season just fifth, having failed to score even a single podium.

[FrankAlfa]

Well that engine sound does NOT soiund like a V12!!!!

Yes, there are sounds there that sound distinctly Turbocharger in nature!

Lets hope this is the case and the engine is the 2014' Ferrari Formula One Engine!!!!

[medeni73]

http://i.imgur.com/c5inHDB.png

[Hornet]

Do our competitors have any comparable high performance car to do such a test? I hope not :-D

[wacc]

Maybe it is the masking but doesnt look like LaFerrari too much.

[ManFromMilan]

I hope it's our V6 turbo, it sounds great and much better than the trash released by Renault, Mercedes and Honda.



I seriously hope so as well. It does sound beautiful and pretty powerful too.

[Hornet]

Maybe it is the masking but doesnt look like LaFerrari too much.

Good point.

The front looks like 485 Italia, the rear is unlike any recent Ferrari car I've seen. But the passenger compartment is too narrow to be the 485, it looks very much like LaFerrari.

I think it's a heavily modified LaFerrari chassis to accommodate this mysterious engine. :Hmm

[Kyss4k]

Sounds great whatever it is. But it's definitely a turbo and that air intake sticking up ftom the roof... hmm, what could it be? :-D

[Ste]

If you close your eyes and just listen, it certainly SOUNDS like an F1 car. And IF that is what next years engines sound like, then that's pretty awesome.

The sounds released by Renault and Mercedes are absolutely nothing like that.

[OSS EL BOSS]

The sound is amazing! I hope it is indeed the 2014 F1 engine.

[Hornet]

It certainly doesn't sound like the vacuum cleaner we heard from Merc :-D

[F1NAC]

about twitters with unloading trucks that scuderia posted. That was what they where doing

5545

[Nero Horse]

http://i.imgur.com/c5inHDB.png

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od3H6Jxisfk

Wow! :-E If this is really our 2014 F1 turbo engine at the back of that LaFerrari test mule then it's going to be absolutely awesome! This sound is sooo much better and completely different from the Merc or Renault engine sound. I love that sound and this is exactly how our F1 car should sound next year, that'd be really shweet! :clap

While I do hope that this really is our F1 turbo engine being tested, it could also be a test mule for the new Maserati hypercar which will be based on LaFerrari, like the MC12 was based on the Enzo. There are rumors that the new Maserati hypercar should be coming out soon and this could be it. But I certainly hope and wish that this is our new F1 turbo engine for next season. :pray

[AfterLife]

That is exactly what they should be doing... using their strong sides - owning the nearby test circuit, manufacturing sports cars and engines. So they should push like hell using every possible opportunity in the engine developement, knowing there are testing restriction in aero developement and they are trailing behind in CFD and windtunnel understanding.

In my opinion that is not an advantage really. Mercedes, Renault, Honda all can do this.

[Hornet]

In my opinion that is not an advantage really. Mercedes, Renault, Honda all can do this.

Do they have the car to do this though?

IIRC, Ferrari did this with the Enzo for the V8, but I'm not sure about the other manufacturers

[Nero Horse]

Ferrari also tested the V8 engine for the 248 F1 car by using Ferrari Enzo test mule in the 2006 season.

http://www.czechferrari.cz/clanek/ferrari-enzo-248f1-netestovani-formule-1/85

So it is very likely that this is indeed the new F1 turbo engine being tested in that video. :-)

[Avantifer12]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od3H6Jxisfk
From f1technical forum, some saying ferrari could be testing next years v6t engine in laferrari test mule?
Definitely not a v12!

All I can say is goosebumps. That sound is something from heaven. I have never heard anything close to what that engine produces. I am not sure if its the V6 turbo but the sound it makes have clearly some similarities with a turbo unit. I don't know how much you can experiment with pneumatics but the now retired V8 had a subtle whining noise under braking and downshifts.

[AfterLife]

Do they have the car to do this though?

IIRC, Ferrari did this with the Enzo for the V8, but I'm not sure about the other manufacturers

All of them have super cars to do it.

[stefa]

If this is really Ferrari V6 Turbo for 2014 Formula 1 season, than I am more than satisfied with the sound :-)

[wacc]

In my opinion that is not an advantage really. Mercedes, Renault, Honda all can do this.

Of course they can, :lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpdDDsavOPI

but Ferrari should be naturally stronger in this particular area.

[Avantifer12]

This is probably not our V6 turbo engine unfortunatly. After running some audio frequency analysis it seems that it's just a development LaFerrari.
I compared the audio file of the clip posted earlier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od3H6Jxisfk
with the audio file of this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5if9vOX2vcY

When both cars coming out of the hairpin they almost sing in tune and the frequency spectrum tool that I use shows a peak for both at around ~240Hz. However, the suspected V6 audio shows an higher overall frequency but that could be down to the different mics used to record.

But there is some questionmarks left that is interesting.
Obviously the sound, especially the whining, some part of it could be KERS but it also sounds like turbo spool up and possibly wastegate or dumpvalve.
Air intake on the roof, not seen on any LaFerrari.
Coincidence that a video with a LaFerrari that makes a sound that has never been heard before.

I'm puzzled, could they be testing a turbo unit on a V12? but that seems irrelevant for 2014 or is it a actually a V6 or a V12 running on only 6 cylinders.
Would have loved to be a fly on the wall in the Fiorano garage right now.

[Rob]

http://i.imgur.com/c5inHDB.png

Didnt sound like a V6, but it has an engine intake on top of the roof :Hmm

[Nero Horse]

Maybe it's the new LMP1 racecar prototype with a turbo engine? :Hmm

[chris.gotfunk]

Maybe it's the new LMP1 racecar prototype with a turbo engine? :Hmm

Or.... it could be the FXX LaFerrari... LOL... just sayin...

[chris.gotfunk]

Wow! :-E If this is really our 2014 F1 turbo engine at the back of that LaFerrari test mule then it's going to be absolutely awesome! This sound is sooo much better and completely different from the Merc or Renault engine sound. I love that sound and this is exactly how our F1 car should sound next year, that'd be really shweet! :clap

While I do hope that this really is our F1 turbo engine being tested, it could also be a test mule for the new Maserati hypercar which will be based on LaFerrari, like the MC12 was based on the Enzo. There are rumors that the new Maserati hypercar should be coming out soon and this could be it. But I certainly hope and wish that this is our new F1 turbo engine for next season. :pray


The rear does kind of look like the MC12 minus the wing. Other than testing reliability, what real infomation can be gathered from using the V6 turbo in our road car? Traction, gearing, tires, ECU, weight, fuel mileage, etc... all depend on the actual car right?

[fratelliferrari]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5if9vOX2vcY

Very nice sound! Can remember that I was at the same place to take some footages but there was only an F430 Challenge doing some laps that day.

[Nero Horse]

Or.... it could be the FXX LaFerrari... LOL... just sayin...

Naah, I think the FXX LaFerrari will stick with the same naturally aspirated V12. It's unlikely that Ferrari would put a V6 turbo engine on the LaFerrari based FXX version.

[Ferris]

Due to the sound alone i hope it is the 2014 F1 engine. It sounded very nice especially on the last drive out of the corner.

What confirms it for me that it is likely the 2014 F1 power plant is not the sound of the engine but rather the fact that there is no audible engine note on a couple of the braking periods into the hairpin which seems to suggest a fuel conservation strategy which is what all the teams will need to do next year.

Also i believe if you listen to one of the laps into the hairpin you can clearly hear the engine come back to life as it is approaching the apex which further confirms they are switching off the engine going into the braking zone and upon corner entry.

Great to see them on the track testing the F1 engine already.

[NickEice]

Whatever Ferrari is doing in the video this can teach us one thing, let's not complain about sounds of engines or the effect of rules changes before we have seen them in action! That turbo certainly sounded F1 worthy!!

[NickEice]

Due to the sound alone i hope it is the 2014 F1 engine. It sounded very nice especially on the last drive out of the corner.

What confirms it for me that it is likely the 2014 F1 power plant is not the sound of the engine but rather the fact that there is no audible engine note on a couple of the braking periods into the hairpin which seems to suggest a fuel conservation strategy which is what all the teams will need to do next year.

Also i believe if you listen to one of the laps into the hairpin you can clearly hear the engine come back to life as it is approaching the apex which further confirms they are switching off the engine going into the braking zone and upon corner entry.

Great to see them on the track testing the F1 engine already.

Very astute observation.

[Alesi1]

Interesting on the exit hearing the turbo flutter, either driver (sennaesque) or engine mapping to control the power input(more likely). Cool stuff. Pleasant surprise .....when hasn't a Ferrari engine sounded cool? :-)

[Hornet]

The rear does kind of look like the MC12 minus the wing. Other than testing reliability, what real infomation can be gathered from using the V6 turbo in our road car? Traction, gearing, tires, ECU, weight, fuel mileage, etc... all depend on the actual car right?

Of course it's not a complete test, that would be illegal. It's to run whatever extra test they can that cannot be done in the dyno. Every bit of advantage helps.

[Ferris]

Interesting on the exit hearing the turbo flutter, either driver (sennaesque) or engine mapping to control the power input(more likely). Cool stuff. Pleasant surprise .....when hasn't a Ferrari engine sounded cool? :-)

Very true, i wonder if this would be seen as a form of traction control at all? It would be very hard to get the same effect from limiting the turbo input as you do from ignition retardation to provide better traction.

Great to see them experimenting with different solutions.

[Ferris]

Very astute observation.
Thanks. It's amazing how much you can get out of a small video clip when there is not much else available on what Ferrari is doing with their 2014 car.
had no option but to listen to the clip numerous times because there is nothing else to look at our listen to. :)

[stefa]

Of course it's not a complete test, that would be illegal. It's to run whatever extra test they can that cannot be done in the dyno. Every bit of advantage helps.

Exactly! If they can, and Ferrari has its own track, why not test as much as possible!

[Jas]

What makes me think its the turbo engine is the roof sccop air intake on the la ferrari which is not the norm!! BUT isnt thi illegal?!?!

[Rob]

What makes me think its the turbo engine is the roof sccop air intake on the la ferrari which is not the norm!! BUT isnt thi illegal?!?!

is what illegal?

[Hornet]

I'm not sure what the exact rules are, but I doubt anyone can prove anything. ;-)

The best anyone can say is that Ferrari put a turbo charged engine in that car from the sound. But Ferrari is free to develop any engine for any of their car. No one can prove it's a F1 engine

[NickEice]

Thanks. It's amazing how much you can get out of a small video clip when there is not much else available on what Ferrari is doing with their 2014 car.
had no option but to listen to the clip numerous times because there is nothing else to look at our listen to. :)

I was too enamored with the sound that I wasn't able to make any technical observations! Lol

[mirafiori]

What makes me think its the turbo engine is the roof sccop air intake on the la ferrari which is not the norm!! BUT isnt thi illegal?!?!

So what if it is legal or not legal, everybody else is cheating. You don't win any prizes for being the good guys.

[FrankAlfa]

That engine sounds Nothing like a V12! You can hear the "Throatiness" on this video that reminds me of my old Alfa 164 V6! I know the sound of V6 very well as I use to drive through the Lincoln Tunnel coming back from N.J. when seeing my "Grasshopper w/ Boobs"! I would drive through the Lincoln Tunnel in 3rd gear, revs at 6500 RPMs, just to hear the sound bounce off the walls!!!!!!!! I think you can clearly hear a turbcharger whine sound in the video quite clearly as well. It clearly sounds like a V6 but it could be any number of engines. A Ferrari Turbo V6 for the California replacement or a Maserati or Alfa Romeo Turbo V6 engine. This is a very interesting sound.

[F1NAC]

That engine sounds Nothing like a V12! You can hear the "Throatiness" on this video that reminds me of my old Alfa 164 V6! I know the sound of V6 very well as I use to drive through the Lincoln Tunnel coming back from N.J. when seeing my "Grasshopper w/ Boobs"! I would drive through the Lincoln Tunnel in 3rd gear, revs at 6500 RPMs, just to hear the sound bounce off the walls!!!!!!!! I think you can clearly hear a turbcharger whine sound in the video quite clearly as well. It clearly sounds like a V6 but it could be any number of engines. A Ferrari Turbo V6 for the California replacement or a Maserati or Alfa Romeo Turbo V6 engine. This is a very interesting sound.

if it is for california why such big air intake on the roof?

[FrankAlfa]

Yes, a very good point. Cooling will become a big issue next year! I thought I heard that the Airbox we being banned? Can anyone confirm if the Airbox is retained or banned for 2014?

[Dino]

5552
Yes, a very good point. Cooling will become a big issue next year! I thought I heard that the Airbox we being banned? Can anyone confirm if the Airbox is retained or banned for 2014?

2014 Renault Turbo engine was shown with Air box in the usual position,behind the driver's head.

[Jas]

So what if it is legal or not legal, everybody else is cheating. You don't win any prizes for being the good guys.

never said i cared it was illegal or not...i was wonderingif it was in the regs, as Honda could just stick one in mclarens P1...I agree, nobody remembers the "cheating" only the titles! I don't think it looks like the Laferrari...more Maserati shape!!

[Suzie]

I was too enamored with the sound that I wasn't able to make any technical observations! Lol

I have no technical knowledge whatsoever - but that sounded damn tasty.

[vcs316]

Exclusive: Ferrari testing V6 turbo engine at Fiorano

Ferrari has been testing their brand new V6 turbo engine at Fiorano, we can exclusively reveal. According to sources the video was shot at the 27th of November, last Wednesday. The V6 turbo engine was build in a new production car called LaFerrari, as this is the only and also legal way to test the new F1 engine in time before winter testing will start.

[Hornet]

never said i cared it was illegal or not...i was wonderingif it was in the regs, as Honda could just stick one in mclarens P1...I agree, nobody remembers the "cheating" only the titles! I don't think it looks like the Laferrari...more Maserati shape!!

It's a modified LaFerrari. The last time we did it for the V8 is with the Enzo. I think they have to put it in the best performance car they have available, and not just any car.

[speedmaster]

Pirelli to conduct December test with 2013 cars - Only Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes have agreed due to the costs associated with running a car during what is thought to be a three-day test

http://www.f1times.co.uk/news/display/08274

[Jas]

newey said that the issue will also be the huge amounts of electronics and ERS...I wonder if we can test these systems in the laferrari...be great if we could, any little advantage to maximise on track time in testing!

[Ferrari Rules]

Nothing certain there but that's definitely an hungry turbo's sound

http://f1grandprix.motorionline.com/ferrari-prova-nuovo-motore-v6-turbo-f1-su-una-laferrari-a-fiorano/ (http://f1grandprix.motorionline.com/ferrari-prova-nuovo-motore-v6-turbo-f1-su-una-laferrari-a-fiorano/)

edit: Already in the engine thread by the looks of things. Sounds angry anyway which is good.

[medeni73]

I'm also hoping its our bad-ass V6 F1 engine but the thing that bothers me and no one seems to address it is: why camouflage??? We all know how LaFerrari looks like and its not as if we can see the engine through bodywork :) I think there are 2 possible reasons: its really some new Ferrari or Maserati model and needs cover-up or they've just used old LaFerrari test-model that was also camouflaged some time ago...I hope the latter is true :)

[PURE PASSION]

I'm also hoping its our bad-ass V6 F1 engine but the thing that bothers me and no one seems to address it is: why camouflage??? We all know how LaFerrari looks like and its not as if we can see the engine through bodywork :) I think there are 2 possible reasons: its really some new Ferrari or Maserati model and needs cover-up or they've just used old LaFerrari test-model that was also camouflaged some time ago...I hope the latter is true :)

As I see it, to fit the f1 engine you need to do a lot of modifications ,so why ruin a complete car and not use the mule so they can do whatever they want!!!

[Hornet]

Maybe that car just happens to have this white color scheme. Seems to be a color scheme that is available for the LaFerrari.
5553

Not that I like it :xmasredface: But I guess some people find it nice.


Anyway black would have been better IMO, if Ferrari wanted to hide any modification. With the white scheme, we can see the air intake clearly and it shows that the air intake have been modified.

[medeni73]

Maybe that car just happens to have this white color scheme. Seems to be a color scheme that is available for the LaFerrari.
5553

Not that I like it :xmasredface: But I guess some people find it nice.


Anyway black would have been better IMO, if Ferrari wanted to hide any modification. With the white scheme, we can see the air intake clearly and it shows that the air intake have been modified.

OMG my eyes!!! :)
but its Ferrari nevertheless :) so this may be it really, this "color"-scheme looks like that gray-ish scheme on video...

[tifosi1993]

http://youtu.be/od3H6Jxisfk?t=1m31s


http://youtu.be/teme-Dz_-OM?t=1m16s

[Nova]

^ The 1st vid sounds more like a v6 or turbo w/all the popping..the 2nd sounds like
they r testing the car. Of course I could be wrong..its great to see Ferrari's pounding around
a track, especially since we r in the no race mode between seasons.
:xmassmile::xmaswink::xmasbiggrin::xmascool:

[WS6TransAm01]

Are they running the '14 v6 Turbo in the road car in the first vid? Nice way to get around the testing restriction but holy hell does it sound terrible...

[Hornet]

Not as good as V10, but it's better than what everyone was expecting. I personally prefer this new sound over the old V6 turbo F1 used to have way back in the 80s (I think)

[PURE PASSION]

There also rumors that Renault test their engine in a single siter from WSR(Formula Renault 3.5)!!!!!!!
http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/33001/f1-renault-prova-il-v6-turbo-sulla-world-series

[Jose Lorca]

The Ferrari F150 has modified to fit a V6 Turbo (not F1) with many appurtenances that will be on the car in 2014.
http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/33008/editoriale-quanti-veti-incrociati-che-fanno-male-alla-formula-1


Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1 19h
@Juanjrodf1 Have spoken to Ferrari. They say it's not the F1 engine. Won't comment further but is almost certainly a future GT car turbo
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/407508303363579904

[Hornet]

Looks like the engine rumor are starting to heat up. Don't know which is reliable or not. :xmasconfused: I sure hope Ferrari is testing the F1 engine somewhere somehow, if the Renault rumors are true. We cannot get left behind again.

[Jas]

Apparently was in one of their formula Renault cars...which is even more of a benefit to our la Ferrari as probably will give better info on cooling etc...I SO HOPE WE ARE TESTING LOL!!

[Jas]

The Ferrari F150 has modified to fit a V6 Turbo (not F1) with many appurtenances that will be on the car in 2014.
http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/33008/editoriale-quanti-veti-incrociati-che-fanno-male-alla-formula-1


Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1 19h
@Juanjrodf1 Have spoken to Ferrari. They say it's not the F1 engine. Won't comment further but is almost certainly a future GT car turbo
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/407508303363579904

Why they wouldn't...I will never know, if the rules permit, it can only be beneficial compared to a test bench!