Abu Dhabi 2013 - Race

[fratelliferrari]

Under investigation oh oh Iam afraid he will be punished :-(

[Jas]

I bet where loving the amount of tv coverage on the plus side!

[tifosi1993]

C'mon Felipe

[rico]

On the other hand Vergne didn't leave room for Alonso.

[Greig]

It's a terrible pit exit which caused the problem.

[sagi58]

And it's under invetigation.Thanks God.
Why are you thankful?

[DIEK]

Alo FL!

[Rob]

On the other hand Vergne didn't leave room for Alonso.

in his defense he was on racing line. its a silly pit exit really

[fratelliferrari]

When do they decide about Fernando?

[sagi58]

When do they decide about Fernando?

Hopefully post-race in this case, no??

[fratelliferrari]

Hopefully post-race in this case, no??

Well if he gets a 20 second penalty or something that would be bad too offcourse

[Rishu]

Hamilton again being 'hunted down by a bull'
Lol

[Rob]

Hopefully post-race in this case, no??

either way loose places and wcc points

[vcs316]

Smedley, "OK, pay attention, Fernando has the Soft tyre at the moment, he's quicker, so let's see how they last"

[rico]

GO ALONSO. COME ON

[Greig]

Go Fernando!

[SinanOzerS]

Alonso.

[tifosi1993]

YES

[vcs316]

Go ALO Go!!

[vcs316]

"OK, Sebastian, don't overheat your tyres behind these guys, just take your time, OK?"

[paneristi]

one more time

[sagi58]

:ferrariflWoooohoooo!!!! Alonzooo!!!
Hamilton AND Sutil!!!:ferrarifl

[SinanOzerS]

P5.

[Greig]

After race for Alonso

[Rob]

good work Fernando. Team has done good job today really after quali and our lack of here traction.

[fratelliferrari]

Investigation after the race, so we'll have to wait

[vcs316]

ALO will be investigated after the race for his move on JEV

[Jas]

was thinking maybe we should have put massa on the softs aswell for the last stint was about 14 laps so not to bad! investigation after race!

[vcs316]

Rocky,"OK, you're approaching the gaggle again, anything can happen, they might have an accident and block the track, so be careful"

[SinanOzerS]

Unbelievable move by Hulkenberg.

[Jas]

stuck behind vergne to long massa was...how crucial good pit stops are!

[DIEK]

Alonso is the show on track, FL! :clap

[vcs316]

To PdiR,"Hamilton is on the Medium tyre, Hamilton on the Medium tyre, so won't have as good as traction"

[vcs316]

Rocky, "Mate, you're plus 31 Webber, so you can just sit back and watch the show"
Vettel,"Too late now"
Rocky,"OK"

[FerrariF60]

Alonso is the show on track, FL! :clap

only because he's got SOFT tire, faster tire and others are on OLD TIRES

dont' get too carried away...teh car is still a MULE rather tehn the PRANCING HORSE we all want it to be

[sagi58]

I guess there isn't any way that Alonso can catch Grosjean, at this point?
After all, he is more than 1/2 a minute behind with only 1 lap to go, eh?

[fratelliferrari]

Well at least our boys made some show today because the rest of the race was boring as hell

[justjesper]

Alonso will get a grid penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage.
But hey he would had overtaken him anyway, It would just had been smarter.

[SinanOzerS]

Anoter FL by Nando.

[DIEK]

Another FL by Alo! :clap

[vcs316]

was thinking maybe we should have put massa on the softs aswell for the last stint was about 14 laps so not to bad! investigation after race!

Maybe Massa chose his own strategy for the race..

[FerrariF60]

I guess there isn't any way that Alonso can catch Grosjean, at this point?
After all, he is more than 1/2 a minute behind with only 1 lap to go, eh?

unless alonso is flying an F18 fighter jet....sadly NO

[sagi58]

only because he's got SOFT tire, faster tire and others are on OLD TIRES

dont' get too carried away...teh car is still a MULE rather tehn the PRANCING HORSE we all want it to be
Does the type of tire change the points awarded at the end of the race?

[sagi58]

unless alonso is flying an F18 fighter jet....sadly NO
haha... Well, he did get fastest lap!!

[Greig]

Well done Fernando and Felipe, great drives.

[Jas]

Donuts again...surley hes already been told off?!?!?!?!

[fratelliferrari]

Alonso will get a grid penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage.
But hey he would had overtaken him anyway, It would just had been smarter.

How do you know he will get grid penalty?

[Uzair Ahmed]

Did he do dounts again??

[SinanOzerS]

Give the race ban this stupid Bieber.

[Katu]

Scuderia Ferrari ‏@InsideFerrari 1m

#ABUGP ALO quickest in 1.43.577, important to push to cover a potential penalty - Importante spingere per coprire un'eventuale penalità

[Greig]

only because he's got SOFT tire, faster tire and others are on OLD TIRES

dont' get too carried away...teh car is still a MULE rather tehn the PRANCING HORSE we all want it to be

So you whinge when we are slow, and still whinge when we are fast, fantastic!

[Hermann]

This years season should have added the sign 'welcome to the Vettel show'

[vcs316]

He did donuts again! EUR 25000 penalty

[Greig]

How do you know he will get grid penalty?

Don't worry he just hates Alonso.

[fratelliferrari]

Fantastic drives by Felipe and Fernando today :ferrarifl

[sagi58]

Both our guys did a great job today!! :ferrarifl

We now have the record for most consecutive races with points!! :ferrarifl

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately, Mercedes eeks a larger point advantage in the WCC! :-s

[tifosi1993]

Well done Fernando, Felipe & Ferrari pit wall. FORZA!

[Hornet]

Good race for us all things considered. I think P5 is the max we can possibly do.

[DIEK]

only because he's got SOFT tire, faster tire and others are on OLD TIRES

dont' get too carried away...teh car is still a MULE rather tehn the PRANCING HORSE we all want it to be

I know, but Vettel doesn't have it, and is very important the maximun gap with 6º, by the posible penalty.

[SashAlex]

Great job by the team! It's a pitty they didn't put on Felipe's car the softs as well. Fernando once again, has done 120%, if not more.

It seemed like he was trolling Vettel during the last laps with that series of fastest laps. :lol:lol:-D

[FerrariF60]

So you whinge when we are slow, and still whinge when we are fast, fantastic!


i'm not whining mate...im just stating teh facts...you know it as well as i do, OUR CAR is slow...only seems fast when we have tire advantage over the others

amen

[sagi58]

He did donuts again! EUR 25000 penalty

Probably worth it to him, as Vettel is closing in on Schumi's record of 13 wins in one season!!
And, if I'm not mistaken most consecutive wins??

[paneristi]

I wonder what Stefano is going to say after Abu Dhabi

[DIEK]

He did donuts again! EUR 25000 penalty

Reincident, perhaps be 50.000! :-D

[justjesper]

How do you know he will get grid penalty?

He had all 4 wheels of the track, he was never in front, so it's pretty clear. He could easily had passed had he just waited. At least he gets to celebrate before he gets bummed down the grid for the next race.

[tifosi1993]

Alonso will get a grid penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage.
But hey he would had overtaken him anyway, It would just had been smarter.

Is that Schumacher in your avatar? :-)

[vcs316]

Great drives by both our drivers! 2013 is soon coming to an end and with it hopefully this Red Bull dominance...

[Rob]

Reincident, perhaps be 50.000! :-D

webber done them aswell

[stefa]

2nd place is going to be tough to get....

[shamim179]

I'm fearing some sort of penalty here for Alonso. The stewards are very strict with these matters. What was the harm in giving back the place back to vergne immediately after? We would have soon taken him over anyway. Why are we gambling with a possible penalty? We'll be extremely lucky if we escape with this one.

[DIEK]

Finger with donuts... :Hmm








a 25.000$ donut!

http://www.inverforo.com/foro/attachments/general/3052d1306766233-f1-harto-del-dedo-vettel-donut.jpg

:rotfl

[Forzi]

Rather stupid thing the team did with not telling Fernando to give it back. Why the darn risk? He would have easily passed the torro rosso if he just waited a second. Now we have to wait...

[vcs316]

Alonso blitzed some fastest laps at the end. If he does get a 25-sec penalty for his pass of Vergne, he'll still finish 10th and get a point

[wacc]

I wonder what Stefano is going to say after Abu Dhabi

I can tell you. Drivers were great, team did good strategy calls, the track did not suit the car and they have to concentrate and push hard in the two remaining races to fight for the 2nd places in WCC and WDC.

[FerrariF60]

I'm fearing some sort of penalty here for Alonso. The stewards are very strict with these matters. What was the harm in giving back the place back to vergne immediately after? We would have soon taken him over anyway. Why are we gambling with a possible penalty? We'll be extremely lucky if we escape with this one.

i feel the same way....vergne was on old tires anyway, he would have passed him again anyway if he was to give teh place back....ferrari is just hard headed that way; now we're probably gonna get a penalty in the next race...

[fratelliferrari]

Finger with donuts... :Hmm



LOL great one DIEK :lol




a 25.000$ donut!

http://www.inverforo.com/foro/attachments/general/3052d1306766233-f1-harto-del-dedo-vettel-donut.jpg

:rotfl

[FA fan]

Great drive by both Fernando and felipe,they really made this boring race,a bit exciting,ohh Kimi did too:-D

[Alessandra]

I gather we did quite well:-D
Couldn't bear to watch it but it's great to read the race here.:clap
I shall get large glass of wine and watch the race recording without dangerous blood pressure later.

[fratelliferrari]

I gather we did quite well:-D
Couldn't bear to watch it but it's great to read the race here.:clap
I shall get large glass of wine and watch the race recording without dangerous blood pressure later.

You will see some nice overtakes by our boys :-D

[DIEK]

Fernando says in spanish TV: According to rules, Vernier is that had to be punished for not leaving room. But he says, the decisions of the commissioners are some random, sometimes.

[fratelliferrari]

Pff I can't stand that Bieber, he hasn't got humor although he probably thinks he has

[Alonsomaniac]

Both drivers and the crew did a good job today, although I 'm pretty sure fernando will get penalized for his move... He and Stefano have already been summoned to go to the stewards.....

[Greig]

i feel the same way....vergne was on old tires anyway, he would have passed him again anyway if he was to give teh place back....ferrari is just hard headed that way; now we're probably gonna get a penalty in the next race...

Which is why there will be no penalty, Vergne gave him room.

[fratelliferrari]

Both drivers and the crew did a good job today, although I 'm pretty sure fernando will get penalized for his move... He and Stefano have already been summoned to go to the stewards.....

Crew was good too, expect Felipe's front tire during his pitstop :-s

[Forzi]

Fernando say in spanish TV: According to rules, Vernier is that had to be punished for not leaving room. But he says, the decisions of the commissioners are some random.

The problematic thing is, he went in where there was no room, didn't seem Vergne did some pushing towards the tracks limits. Also can recall quite a few moments when a driver, who even got pushed out of the track and had to cut a corner got a penalty. Now we have to wait...

[Kingdom Hearts]

Great drive by Fernando and good race by Felipe. Strategy with Fernando was great, god bless missing Q3...lol

let's hope for no penalty, with no penalty the 2nd in the WDC for Fernando is possible, sadly 2nd in the WCC seems impossible.

[Alonsomaniac]

Fernando's only defense can be the one he already stated to the press....he was leaving the pits and vergne did not give him room to enter the track. To be honest I think this is a little creative thinking by Fernando..:lol

[Golfsmith]

Well done to the Ferrari team.

[DIEK]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYJ2V_HCEAAOK0g.jpg
Images by VictorM_F1 (https://twitter.com/VictorM_F1/status/397009837243895809)

:pass

[fratelliferrari]

Again he fails to be funny, I almost have to vomit when I see Bieber's face

[Forzi]

Thx for the pics DIEK. Seems it's looking in Fernando's favour :-)

[shamim179]

i feel the same way....vergne was on old tires anyway, he would have passed him again anyway if he was to give teh place back....ferrari is just hard headed that way; now we're probably gonna get a penalty in the next race...

Didn't we do this in Silverstone 2010 with kubica? Kubica retired from the race and consequently Alonso couldn't give the place back? It could be argued that it cost us the WDC that year. That was a very painful lesson for us. Haven't we learned from that? Its already embarrassing to see how slow our car is getting compared to the others but we really don't need anymore embarrassment.

[Alonsomaniac]

Niki Lauda:" as a driver I would have done what Fernando did.....but you knever know what stewards do. I really don't know what will be the outcome of this".

[Italian Spirit]

I can tell you. Drivers were great, team did good strategy calls, the track did not suit the car and they have to concentrate and push hard in the two remaining races to fight for the 2nd places in WCC and WDC.
Wow! :-E Ho did you know? :-( d :-( o :-( m :-( e :-( n :-( i :-( c :-( a :-( l :-( i :-( (to be continued)

[Jose Lorca]

Crazy that Alonso is the one under investigation, it was Vergne who forced him off the track! Alonso had the momentum and without Vergne being an idiot, Alonso would easily have gotten past.

Remember Bahrain 2012, when Rosberg forced Hamilton off the track and Hamilton rejoined ahead. No penalties that time so hopefully no penalty this time - although the stewards dont have a good record when it comes to consistency.

[Alonsomaniac]

The pictures above have cleared all for me: on pic.nr 3 Alonso is already next to Vergne and both cars are still on the track, so Fernando is right, it's Vergnes mistake, he pushed Fernando off.

[DIEK]

Niki Lauda:" as a driver I would have done what Fernando did.....but you knever know what stewards do. I really don't know what will be the outcome of this".

[DIEK]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16qqp6_alonso-sort-des-stands-en-trombe_sport?

[Jas]

Massa didn't look to happy after!!

[Jas]

Analysis of the incident on sky now...

[Rob]

JEVs engineer should of warned Fernando was going to be at pit lane exi at full speed.

[Nero Horse]

If anyone should be punished for that incident between Alonso and JEV then it should be JEV for not leaving a car's width of room for Alonso. It was clear that JEV just pushed Alonso out. Where was Fernando supposed to go then? There wasn't any room at all.

[fratelliferrari]

Massa didn't look to happy after!!

Probably because he would have wanted to drive with the Softs as well at his second stop?

[Katu]

Probably because he would have wanted to drive with the Softs as well at his second stop?

maybe they had a radio conversation and they discussed what tyres to put on, maybe they thought it wouldn't last so long. why you keep acting like everything is decided without including him in making decisions?

[diesel08]

Probably because he would have wanted to drive with the Softs as well at his second stop?

Fernado run on a different strategy, with a new fresh soft tires, save from Q3.

[Alonso14]

Probably because he would have wanted to drive with the Softs as well at his second stop?

a) Felipe didn't have new options as he took part in Q3
b) By lap 28 Felipe was doing mid/high 1.47s while Fernando was doing mid 1.46s (until he caught him and started running with Massa's pace, obviously). As Felipe pitted on L38, Fernando started doing doing low/mid 1.46s until L46 when he pitted. so obviously Fernando was looking after his tyres MUCH better than Felipe despite the fact that his tyres were 2 laps (Fernando pitted on L16, Felipe on L18) older. To cap - Fernando's primes lasted 30 laps on decent pace while Felipe's primes were off around the 20 lap mark. Hence he couldn't run his used options in the end as he would have had to run 27 laps on them.

[wacc]

I guess that Fernando will get a penalty.

[vcs316]

Probably because he would have wanted to drive with the Softs as well at his second stop?

Maybe bcoz the team suggested it and Massa decided to go with his own strategy?

[Nero Horse]

I guess that Fernando will get a penalty.

It's 50/50

[Alonsomaniac]

It's 50/50

It shouldn't be though. As I already posted, if you look at the pictures you can clearly see that Fernando was already next to JEV with both cars inside the white lines.

[wacc]

No penalty for Fernando. :clap

[Dino]

NO FURTHER ACTION ABOUT ALONSO.......:clap

[Hermann]

So Fernando was spot on then in his argument?

[Hornet]

Good to hear :-D

[vcs316]

Awesome!

[DIEK]

http://img.imgur.com/BFiPMIA.gif

http://img.imgur.com/ZyEYRbq.gif

:bow

[wacc]

Fernando 34 points to RAI and 42 points to HAM. 2nd place in WDC should be managable.
Ferrari 11 points behind Merc and 26 in front of Renault in WCC. Some good luck needed to finish 2nd.

[Nero Horse]

NO FURTHER ACTION ABOUT ALONSO.......:clap

YESSS!!! Finally some good news for a change! This really made my day :clap

Justice has prevailed.

[Greig]

Good news no penalty :-)

[Alonsomaniac]

It has not been a difficult decision for the stewards. The pictures were clear enough.

[Nero Horse]

The fight for 2nd place in WCC and WDC continues. And the tracks in Austin and Brazil should suit our car much better as well. So there's still plenty to be gained.

[Kingdom Hearts]

Great news, not only no penalty but one of the finest moments of the season, pedal to the metal.

[fratelliferrari]

Great news Fernando didn't get a penalty. You never know with the FIA.

[Hermann]

Vergne definitely pushed him off track, but as you say, with the stewards you never know. Finally a bit lucky here.

[Nero Horse]

And a fastest lap of the race for Alonso as well. :-)

[Alonsomaniac]

The fight for 2nd place in WCC and WDC continues. And the tracks in Austin and Brazil should suit our car much better as well. So there's still plenty to be gained.

Wow....you must be related to a certain teamboss wearing red.....:clap:lol......but I hope you are right though.

[Alessandra]

Stewards obviously influenced by Martin Brundle who said he "would cry" if Alonso got a penalty! Now that would have been a terrible sight:-(

[Hermann]

James Allen ‏@Jamesallenonf1 34m

#f1 No penalty for Alonso over passing Vergne/Massa by going off track - convinced stewards that Vergne left him no room

He probably held a gun to their head, James. Evil Alonso.

[F2002]

Good news no penalty.

Probably one of our best races this season, a pity having to start every time so far away from the front row.

[Nero Horse]

Wow....you must be related to a certain teamboss wearing red.....:clap:lol......but I hope you are right though.

I don't know about you, but I personally would certainly prefer to see us finishing at least on 2nd places in both championships. It would give me at least some solace if we could beat the "1000 km legal test" Merc in the WCC. But if we can't, then we can't, life goes on. It'd be great if we could though.

[F2002]

2nd place is going to be tough to get....

We don't seem to be bothering all that much it seems. Why not give Felipe the softer tyre, like Alonso, for example?

[Dino]

We don't seem to be bothering all that much it seems. Why not give Felipe the softer tyre, like Alonso, for example?

Maybe because Felipe had no new softs left?

[radosav]

We don't seem to be bothering all that much it seems. Why not give Felipe the softer tyre, like Alonso, for example?
As i remember Alonso had one fresh set of soft tyres, Massa didn't!

[Nero Horse]

We don't seem to be bothering all that much it seems. Why not give Felipe the softer tyre, like Alonso, for example?

Maybe because Felipe came into the pits much earlier than Alonso and thus he would've had to drive on the softs longer?

[Rishu]

I think the difference between Fernando & Felipe was Fernando's second stint. He was about 8-9 tenths faster & still was managing his tyres very well. Result of this, he was able to extend his second stint so that he could attack later with option tyres. Felipe had no option tyres left & his tyres degraded quickly in second stint compared to Fernando

[Hornet]

We don't seem to be bothering all that much it seems. Why not give Felipe the softer tyre, like Alonso, for example?
If that appeared to be the better option to the team/Massa, I'm sure they would have done so. Massa pitted much earlier than Alonso for the last stint. Also noticed that when Massa pitted, Alonso had more life in his tires which allowed him to leap-frog Massa in the pits. Maybe the data showed that Massa was harder on his tires, and with the remaining laps, the soft would not last.

That's just a guess of course, but the teams have the data and if it showed soft was the better option, they would have used it.

[F2008]

Saw some good racing from Alonso and Massa today. Happy for Alonso that he didn't get a penalty, he had no place to go.

[wisepie]

Both Fernando and Felipe really gave it their all and it was looking good for us, but it went wrong for Felipe with too many laps for him to put the softs on for his last stint, if he'd had some! Can't say they didn't do us proud despite their finishing places, made the race worth watching and once again, Felipe showed that he still has the hunger that we take for granted with Fernando. Bravo ragazzi. Shame about losing out to Merc in WCC, but there's still time.......:pray

[shamim179]

Lucky escape for us. Sometimes the decisions made by the stewards aren't fair so it can be a bit of a lottery at times. We have seen how Alonso had to give back his place to Perez in Monaco this year.


Somewhat of a good result by the team considering our pace and starting positions.

[DIEK]

A photo taked by friend in the Ferrari box:

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1385340_10151694605096039_435481269_n.jpg

[Fer138]

http://adamcooperf1.com/

Hope everything is alright with Fernando.

[DIEK]

http://www.formula1.com/wi/gi/597x478/DhrM/tvimages/2013/uae/sunpic18.jpg

De la Rosa said in spanish TV, his back had to suffer after that heavy bump... :-??

[DIEK]

http://i.minus.com/iblTEq81gX73XT.gif

[Hornet]

Alonso seems to be able to turn all human fears off when he's overtaking. He kept his foot down bumping across the curb so he doesn't lose speed. :-E
Reminds me of Spa where he did a series of quick opposite lock correction coming out of eau rogue, without lifting at all to maintain his speed.

[radosav]

Vergne praised Alonso for his actions and said they prevented the possibility of a big accident

"It was a racing incident and if he had not gone on the outside [of the track] like he did, we would have had a big crash," Vergne told AUTOSPORT.

"It was high-speed, and what he did was right. Actually, I am really happy he did that otherwise we would have had an accident, so yes, definitely [the stewards made the right decision]."

"I knew that I might be racing against him but as I

[Mike996]

Quite entertaining it was. Very nice overtaking moves by Alonso! Good that he did not get a penalty for his move on Vergne.
A very nice overtaking move by the Hulk, too.
Only NR on 3rd is what spoils the fun a bit because of the impact that it has on the WCC. He deserved it though. Just a few more races and he may get close to overtake LH in the WDC. He is having a good run going.

[Senna4Ever]

http://img.imgur.com/BFiPMIA.gif

http://img.imgur.com/ZyEYRbq.gif

:bow

Awesome!
Sorry I doubt your motivation ... won't happen, I promise by everything what matters to me ...

Not bad result for the team even MercGP did more ...

Would have been interesting how this 'whatever' would have reacted if it would have been Vettel coming out of the box ...

[Jas]

A photo taked by friend in the Ferrari box:

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1385340_10151694605096039_435481269_n.jpg

The best garage view in the world?!?! I think so! wouldn't mind that happening outside mine!

[Jas]

I havnt seen this overtake by Hulk, anybody got a link for it...cheers

[M.K]

Abu Dhabi GP: Vergne says Alonso prevented big crash

Jean-Eric Vergne believes Abu Dhabi Grand Prix stewards were right not to penalise Fernando Alonso for overtaking him off the track.

The Toro Rosso driver said he had not seen Alonso as the Spaniard emerged from the pits on the 45th lap of the race, meaning he took his regular line through Turn 3.

Stewards investigated the incident as technically Alonso passed Vergne for seventh while outside the track limits, but no action was taken on the basis that the Ferrari driver had no choice.

Vergne praised Alonso for his actions and said they prevented the possibility of a big accident

"It was a racing incident and if he had not gone on the outside [of the track] like he did, we would have had a big crash," Vergne told AUTOSPORT.

"It was high-speed, and what he did was right. Actually, I am really happy he did that otherwise we would have had an accident, so yes, definitely [the stewards made the right decision]."

"I knew that I might be racing against him but as I didn't see him on the left, I thought he was in front of me. But he was next to me where I could not see him."


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111117

[Forzi]

Not sure what was the idea with Felipe's strategy. Should have stayed two extra laps and go softs. Seeing how long the first stint lasted, it would have deff been enough till the end. Also, what's with the talks about Felipe not have a set of softs? Fernando used the new ones at the start, Felipe managed the used ones better than Fernando on the first stint and was faster. From that point Felipe and Fernando had the same quality/number of softs left (one fast lap in quali done on em), which Fernando put on. Felipe even said that he hoped for softs when coming in, but got the hards. I ain't saying anything bad about the team or get some wild theories out, but seriously, this was a pure error from the team that possibly cost us valuable wcc points.

[F2002]

Maybe because Felipe had no new softs left?

With ambient temperatures dropping, using a scrubbed set wouldn't have made a big difference perhaps.

[Katu]

Must have been a pretty bad hit and cool that Vergne thought also that this was good move

[Greig]

Yeah there was no real reason why Massa could not have gone with the softs, from his comments it's not clear if he made the decision or not.

[Suzie]

http://www.espn.co.uk/abudhabi/motorsport/story/133671.html


Felipe Massa was left frustrated after he believes Ferrari put him on the wrong tyre strategy at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

Massa started on soft tyres and managed to make them last 19 laps before making a pit stop to switch to mediums for his second stint. He then continued to lap 38 before pitting again and expecting to move onto softs for the final stint - a strategy team-mate Fernando Alonso used to great effect. However, Ferrari put mediums on Massa's car for the final stint, meaning he struggled to make progress and finished eighth while Alonso, who had been behind him in the second stint, took on softs and went on to finish fifth.

"We made a mistake," he said. "I didn't expect to use the medium in the last stint, I expected to use the softs. I did the 19 laps at the beginning and I was the best car on the soft and then we decided to stop at the last moment the second time and I expected to see the soft tyres on the car and it was the other ones. That was the mistake of my race, without this problem I would have finished easily in the top five.

"I would have got completely behind [Jean-Eric] Vergne and passed him in two laps, I would have passed [Lewis] Hamilton easily on the new tyres because I would have been one second quicker. That was the mistake. I didn't discuss [the strategy] with the engineers because the decision was clear [to me]."

Massa said it was frustrating that Ferrari had made the wrong strategy call as he is trying to fight for a place on the grid next year.

"It is [frustrating], I'm not happy because today I did a great race, fighting all the time and overtaking cars," he said. "It was a very good race and I didn't finish in the position I was supposed to finish in. It is a bit frustrating, but I think I showed a good race and good pace."

However, he ruled out any suggestion that Ferrari had sabotaged his race to boost Alonso's position.

"For sure not," he added. "The team needs points and the team would never do that to me. It is not really even close to my mind that the team would do something like that. I believe in the team and I will believe in them until the last moment, but today the first thing I said was that it was mistake because we could have scored more points today."

[sagi58]

Stewards obviously influenced by Martin Brundle who said he "would cry" if Alonso got a penalty! Now that would have been a terrible sight:-(
I would have paid money to see that!!! :-D

[Forzi]

Well, he said it was rather obvious it should have been softs. I mean, there were 16 (or 17?) laps left till the end, he had softs left that had one quali lap done on em, and he needed to do a smaller stint with a MUCH lighter car than at the start of the race, but the team put mediums on him, for which he criticized them. Looks like the team wanted Fernando to be in front and secure his 2nd wdc spot. But at what cost? Instead of letting Felipe finish in front of Fernando, loosing those few points, we sacrificed Felipe and lost a couple of spots and more points for the wcc. Got a feeling that it will come back to bite us in the bum at the seasons end. Mostly what pisses me off is that Felipe needs as good results as he can get, since his future is what we're talking here about. The team screwing him up doesn't help. Also lost a freakin bet to a friend because of this nonsence on who would finish in front here :furious Guess that's why i'm unusually off this evening...

[DIEK]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYLTzlYIQAA09wh.jpg

https://twitter.com/lsgrcbd/status/397112600598937601/photo/1

:-E

[Ferrari Rules]

Holy :-E.

Probably went in for a full MRI: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24798485

[DIEK]

The alarm in the car is triggered when it exceeds a G-force of 18, and means the driver must go to the medical centre for a check-up.
Alonso experienced vertical 28G in the impact.
A measurement of acceleration felt as weight, most F1 drivers are exposed to a lateral load of about 5G on fast corners.

Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1 24min Alonso given the all clear by Abu Dhabi hospital after heavy impact following launch over kerbs.

:thumb

[fratelliferrari]

A photo taked by friend in the Ferrari box:

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1385340_10151694605096039_435481269_n.jpg

WOW that's great I would do everything to be in the Ferrari garage for one time :-D

[Alonsomaniac]

Great that Fernando seems to be ok.
Also a great reaction of Vergne about the incident, clearing Fernando, even praising him. Good sportsmanship from Jean-Eric !!

[fratelliferrari]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYLTzlYIQAA09wh.jpg

https://twitter.com/lsgrcbd/status/397112600598937601/photo/1

:-E

That's heavy! I saw Gutierrez jumping in India a couple of times and he hadn't much pain so didn't expected what happened with Fernando.

[Aberracus]

Yes, That picture of Alonso, was really worrying, it looks like everything is ok now.

Great race from our boys. Both of them, I'm sure Massa garage didn't consider the soft tires until Alonso Garage went for them.

[shamim179]

Alonso might not be scared of high speeds over the kerbs but on that patient bed he looks absolutely terrified! It almost looks like he's praying!

[Lucky Dodo]

I don't like hospitals either, it is very natural worry or fear, nothing to be made big thing about. Great that he is ok!

[Paulo Goncalves]

What a wonderfull racer, Alonso is. Thanks. Massa is already rich, nothing more can bring to F1. Thanks for all those years of Scuderia improvement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[Alonsomaniac]

Alonso might not be scared of high speeds over the kerbs but on that patient bed he looks absolutely terrified! It almost looks like he's praying!

Well....he's pretty tied up, so I suppose it would be hard to look any other way....:lol

[Alonso14]

What a wonderfull racer, Alonso is. Thanks. Massa is already rich, nothing more can bring to F1. Thanks for all those years of Scuderia improvement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Not to take a stab at Massa or anything but I always find it hilarious when (the British media mainly) people start talking about the real Massa dominating Alonso and how he's racing for himself and proving he's better than Fernando, only to be brought back to reality come Sunday.

[Greig]

Not to take a stab at Massa or anything but I always find it hilarious when (the British media mainly) people start talking about the real Massa dominating Alonso and how he's racing for himself and proving he's better than Fernando, only to be brought back to reality come Sunday.

The reality that was another strange strategy that let Alonso be ahead?

I have not heard any media say Massa is dominating Alonso either, got a link?

[Alonso14]

The reality that was another strange strategy that let Alonso be ahead?

I have not heard any media say Massa is dominating Alonso either, got a link?

It's just the feeling I get from watching Sky. All them are ecstatic and so content when Felipe outQs Alonso. And they didn't stop pointing out the fact that Felipe outqualified Fernando in India!!

And to quote myself from earlier

By lap 28 Felipe was doing mid/high 1.47s while Fernando was doing mid 1.46s (until he caught him and started running with Massa's pace, obviously). As Felipe pitted on L38, Fernando started doing doing low/mid 1.46s until L46 when he pitted. So obviously Fernando was looking after his tyres MUCH better than Felipe despite the fact that his tyres were 2 laps (Fernando pitted on L16, Felipe on L18) older. To cap - Fernando's primes lasted 30 laps on decent pace while Felipe's primes were off around the 20 lap mark. Hence he couldn't run his used options in the end as he would have had to run 27 laps on them.

[Hermann]

Poor Fernando- glad to hear he is ok! When i saw those kerbs in FP i already thought they were kind of dangerous for the drivers back bones if they had to go over them at high speed. Maybe something to reconsider for next year.

[Greig]

It's just the feeling I get from watching Sky. All them are ecstatic and so content when Felipe outQs Alonso. And they didn't stop pointing out the fact that Felipe outqualified Fernando in India!!

And to quote myself from earlier

I have heard Sky say Massa has outqualified Alonso, not outraced him. Which is entirely correct and even Felipe and Alonso have said so.

[Poltergeistes]

The reality that was another strange strategy that let Alonso be ahead?

I have not heard any media say Massa is dominating Alonso either, got a link?

exactly !

i could understand these kind of calls from ferrari when fernando was fighting for the wdc but now that its over, its only a higher place at the wcc right? why do they find the need to make sure felipe finishes behind fernando always?

in monza, the pitcrew took an extra whole second to change felipes tyres, which if they had done the same speed as alonso's we would have had 2 ferraris on the podium.

like felipe, i dont think ferrari is trying to sabotage felipe's races, but i think maybe someone inside there thinks its not a bad idea to make it bad for felipe so nobody complains next season saying, felipe should have stayed with ferrari?

silly things, we need to beat mercedes and now that means giving BOTH ferraris 100%

[wisepie]

exactly !

i could understand these kind of calls from ferrari when fernando was fighting for the wdc but now that its over, its only a higher place at the wcc right? why do they find the need to make sure felipe finishes behind fernando always?

in monza, the pitcrew took an extra whole second to change felipes tyres, which if they had done the same speed as alonso's we would have had 2 ferraris on the podium.

like felipe, i dont think ferrari is trying to sabotage felipe's races, but i think maybe someone inside there thinks its not a bad idea to make it bad for felipe so nobody complains next season saying, felipe should have stayed with ferrari?

silly things, we need to beat mercedes and now that means giving BOTH ferraris 100%

Agree with you, Felipe obviously expected to use scrubbed softs for final stint which would have been the best choice, but maybe a bit difficult towards the end. Again the strategy messed it up for Felipe in favour of Fernando, and more WCC points were paramount. And still Felipe defends the team.

[vcs316]

Don't drivers have equal inputs in strategies? Massa chose to reject the team strategy for Korea (or was it India?) and go with one he felt more comfortable and he did finish well in that race.

[Greig]

Don't drivers have equal inputs in strategies? Massa chose to reject the team strategy for Korea (or was it India?) and go with one he felt more comfortable and he did finish well in that race.

He said they never discussed it as it seemed obvious.

[Senna4Ever]

The reality that was another strange strategy that let Alonso be ahead?


Which strange strategy to let Alonso be ahead?

You mean the much earlier second pit stop of Massa? Even that Alonsos 1st pit stop was before Massas?

Felipe

29 1:47.718
30 1:48.014
31 1:47.339
32 1:47.068
33 1:47.535
34 1:47.139
35 1:46.861
36 1:47.022
37 1:47.257
38P 1:49.288

vs

Alonso [Lap - Time]

29 1:47.003
30 1:46.596
31 1:46.615
32 1:46.494
33 1:46.593
34 1:47.035
35 1:46.783
36 1:47.141
37 1:47.023
38 1:47.668
39 1:46.548

So I don't think they called Felipe to "early" (like they did with Webber last race).
Therefore Alonso was quicker (or equal at least) on the medium even they were two laps older ...
So by far no kind of evidence that they called Felipe to early and therefore he wasn't able to use the tires

Or do you mean the strange fact that Alonso was much longer on the medium tires (pit lap 44) even he started 2 laps earlier?
and was able to drive same times like Felipe after his second pit stop even with old medium tires?

Felipe

39 2:06.848
40 1:46.097
41 1:46.288
42 1:46.203
43 1:46.240
44 1:48.011
45 1:48.816

Alonso

38 1:47.668
39 1:46.548
40 1:46.367
41 1:46.561
42 1:46.256
43 1:46.748
44P 1:48.424
45 2:06.141

so Felipe and Alonso had nearly same out-lap after pit-stop even with different tires ...

didn't Rob S said on team radio something like

Fernando on soft let see what he can do

So this comment from Rob S wasn't really sure what would happen ....

But to feed the paranoia: The problem changing left front tire was also pure intention at Felipes second stop ...

[Hermann]

Can't wait for next season. The 'sabotage!' cries will reach superbowl crowd level.

[racingbradley]

Hmm I wonder who the rogue mechanic is in Felipe's side of the garage then?????
There must be someone other than Rob who decides which tyre to use :-??:-??
OK I realise the driver usually makes the call but as Felipe said there was no need to discuss it as it was obviously softs----
he did mention that he went for 18 laps on the softs at the beginning of the race when the heavy fuel was on board. :-??:-??

Still we live to fight another day.
As a Felipe fan I don't want to see any of this odd behaviour at his home race
;-);-);-) Think I will have to get in touch with Stefano or is it Pat Fry or ANother....;-);-);-)

[FFFerrari]

I watched the race from DVR later (cause I wasn't really interested spending the Sunday afternoon watching fingerboy-domination), but I too find really strange the decision of putting mediums on for Felipe's last stint as he was quick on the softs on the first. Otherwise the race was pretty lackluster and boring, as most Abu Dhabi races are.

[Senna4Ever]

There must be someone other than Rob who decides which tyre to use :-??:-??


of course it was Alonso ...
and even he knew all that (Massa put on wrong tire, Vergne pitting soon) he still pushed the petal to the metal to stay ahead of Vergne & Felipe ... just for the show ...

[sagi58]

One should NEVER assume that others know what he's thinking/expecting!!:lou

[Greig]

Which strange strategy to let Alonso be ahead?

If Massa had got softs on at his 2nd stop then Alonso would not have come out ahead of him at his 2nd stop, pretty simple to understand.

[Mike996]

Poor Fernando- glad to hear he is ok! When i saw those kerbs in FP i already thought they were kind of dangerous for the drivers back bones if they had to go over them at high speed. Maybe something to reconsider for next year.

Yes, the kerbs are very dangerous and a 28g shock is very heavy. Then again, the drivers know that the kerbs are there and the alternative of, say, a wall like in Monaco for example is even a lot worse. So it was a risk that Alonso was willing to take. He could have eased off the throttle and make sure that he joins the track after Vergne. It was his choice, he knew it was not going to be pretty. Sure proof of his determination to give it his all for Ferrari, even when the WDC is over.
I still think that anything that is potentially putting the drivers' life or health at risk needs to be removed. There were other parts of the track that did not have these bumps as far as I can tell, so why there? The rules are clear: you leave the track, you get a drive-through. So why have this kind of dangerous kerb in the first place.

[wacc]

Felipe's comments are a bit odd recently. He and his race engineer decided to go for a one stop strategy and they did not talk about alternative scenarious before the race?
I think they both were not smart enough during the race and were actually surprised that before the last stop Fernando stayed out longer despite the older tyres and changed to options for the final stint. Usually pitting sooner means advatage, so they decided to pit. But it is not easy to stay ahead after pit stop when there is a much faster driver behind you. I do not believe that Rob and Felipe were denied to use option tyres, it looks like they just were not smart enough.

[Senna4Ever]

If Massa had got softs on at his 2nd stop then Alonso would not have come out ahead of him at his 2nd stop, pretty simple to understand.

First: even with new mediums Massa should have stood ahead of Alonso as Felipe was driving 6 laps with new(er) mediums ... and the order before the stop was: Massa ahead of Alonso.
On the other hand no one would have asked why they called Felipe 6 laps earlier to get soft tire while Alonso would have lost valuable time by staying out that long with old medium ...


Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1
Massa was put on mediums not softs at final stop because was losing grip on mediums and Rob Smedley was worried about 17 laps on softs


Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1
Massa dismissed questions re Ferrari trying to slow him. "No way they would do that. The team needs the points."

But more interesting: you - as a hardcore Ferrari Fan - think that Ferrari just throw away valuable points for WCC (the only thing that matters anymore) only for Fernando giving a 5th place instead of scoring 5th and 6th?

[eddie]

Hopefully after this super over taking move, no one will doubt Fernando' motivation. He was all pedal to the metal for the additional points. My heart stopped that 3 secs the minute I saw the front of the car lifted...

[Greig]

First: even with new mediums Massa should have stood ahead of Alonso as Felipe was driving 6 laps with new(er) mediums ... and the order before the stop was: Massa ahead of Alonso.
On the other hand no one would have asked why they called Felipe 6 laps earlier to get soft tire while Alonso would have lost valuable time by staying out that long with old medium ...

But more interesting: you - as a hardcore Ferrari Fan - think that Ferrari just throw away valuable points for WCC (the only thing that matters anymore) only for Fernando giving a 5th place instead of scoring 5th and 6th?

If Massa was on softs he would have been ahead of Alonso after the final stops that is all, no need for you to get all worked up and think it means anything much. In the last race we had people saying the team threw away points with the Alonso strategy as well so we can see it's not just one side of the garage that people think make mistakes.

[FA fan]

I don't think Ferrari deliberately put Alonso ahead of massa,clearly they want max points,so 5th and 6th is much better then 5th and 8th! Had they put massa on softs,surely massa would have been ahead after the pit stop,and that would have resulted in lewis being 8th,and the difference between Mercedes and ferrari would have been 5 points rather than 11 now!

[Nova]

This talk about the stops is out there a bit. Ferrari would need both cars to finish as high as possible
for the wcc, n since the wdc is tediously wrapped I would think that both camps thought their strategy
the best as the race evolved.

[Senna4Ever]

no need for you to get all worked up and think it means anything much.
Sorry that I put some information in my post which my arguments are based on despite of "pure feeling Ferrari did what"....

Glad you're doing the split between what means much or is useless .... so feel free to delete what not means much ... allow you to do that for my posts ...

But thank you very much for your advice,
Anything else what I should do or not?

[Greig]

Sorry that I put some information in my post which my arguments are based on despite of "pure feeling Ferrari did what"....

Glad you're doing the split between what means much or is useless .... so feel free to delete what not means much ... allow you to do that for my posts ...

But thank you very much for your advice,
Anything else what I should do or not?

Massa would have been ahead of Alonso after the final stops if he went with the softs, you can take that how you like really. I never gave you any advice either so again not sure what you are getting all worked up about?

[Alonsomaniac]

To be honest I think Massa could/should have finished higher. The tyretactics were not like they should be. Again some points missed.

[paneristi]

LdM asked the team to fight until the end, and suddenly a stupid mistake happened. They should practice a lot harder, and pray much more

[Suzie]

It's just the feeling I get from watching Sky. All them are ecstatic and so content when Felipe outQs Alonso. And they didn't stop pointing out the fact that Felipe outqualified Fernando in India!!



Seriously if you get worked up about what the TV pundits say about Alonso, you should try being a Massa fan. Anytime he does do well, it's all 'fighting for his career!!!', 'in Alonso's shadow!!!' on and on and on.

[Hornet]

LdM asked the team to fight until the end, and suddenly a stupid mistake happened. They should practice a lot harder, and pray much more
Strategies don't always work out like what the teams hope for. The team planned for a 1 stop, at a point I thought both Massa and Alonso would be on podium. Unfortunately the strategy did not work out, both drivers had to pit earlier for the mediums and the race just became complicated.

Of course now we can look back at all these races and say that our strategy was a mistake, because we see the outcome of one option and we know what works and what doesn't. But during a race, the team doesn't have such luxury.

And Ferrari isn't the only team facing such problems, Lotus, Merc, they all face these problems. Of course if you are as fast as the Red Bull where either option would have resulted in a win for Vettel anyway, then it's easy to look like they got everything perfect.

[F2002]

If Massa had got softs on at his 2nd stop then Alonso would not have come out ahead of him at his 2nd stop, pretty simple to understand.

+1

Question though (a bit naïve perhaps). Why would Ferrari want Alonso ahead of Massa at this stage of the championship anyway? They threw away precious WCC points and surely they could do other things to secure 5th and 6th with Alonso in front (a longer pit stop, etc.)

[paneristi]

it was a mistake, not a strategy that didn't work. The first one is avoidable compared to the second
Strategies don't always work out like what the teams hope for.

[Hornet]

it was a mistake, not a strategy that didn't work. The first one is avoidable compared to the second

In a hindsight. Its easy to call something a mistake after the fact.

[diesel08]

Which strange strategy to let Alonso be ahead?

You mean the much earlier second pit stop of Massa? Even that Alonsos 1st pit stop was before Massas?

Felipe


vs

Alonso [Lap - Time]


So I don't think they called Felipe to "early" (like they did with Webber last race).
Therefore Alonso was quicker (or equal at least) on the medium even they were two laps older ...
So by far no kind of evidence that they called Felipe to early and therefore he wasn't able to use the tires

Or do you mean the strange fact that Alonso was much longer on the medium tires (pit lap 44) even he started 2 laps earlier?
and was able to drive same times like Felipe after his second pit stop even with old medium tires?

Felipe


Alonso


so Felipe and Alonso had nearly same out-lap after pit-stop even with different tires ...

didn't Rob S said on team radio something like


So this comment from Rob S wasn't really sure what would happen ....

But to feed the paranoia: The problem changing left front tire was also pure intention at Felipes second stop ...

[sagi58]

In a hindsight. Its easy to call something a mistake after the fact.
:clap Very true!!
Unfortunately, it's also something we "armchair" critics forget at times!! :Hmm

[Greig]

In a hindsight. Its easy to call something a mistake after the fact.

Off course it is easy for us fans to say in hindsight, but we have clever people on the pitwall that should not be making such obvious mistakes and we should expect them to do a better job than us ;-)

[Rob]

Stefano Domenicali Q&A: The Ferrari boss' post-Abu Dhabi GP press briefing, Tyre strategy and Alonso's move on Vergne up for discussion
By William Esler. Last Updated: November 4, 2013 10:06am.

The Ferrari Team Principal discusses Felipe Massa's tyre strategy, Fernando Alonso's move on Jean-Eric Vergne and the battle for second in the Constructors' Championship with the assembled media following the Abu Dhabi GP.

Felipe Massa has said that he felt it was a mistake to fit the medium tyres at his final stop. Obviously at the time you thought it was correct, but in retrospect do you think it was a mistake or does Felipe just need to accept that that was the decision made?
Stefano Domenicali: "I think at that stage that was the thinking. Of course retrospectively you could say that it was not the right decision, but there are a lot of good Monday morning quarter-backs in life."

Can you tell us about the investigation into Fernando?
SD: "In my view you see clearly that when Fernando is out on track, his car is alongside the other car. So the regulation says clearly that if you have a portion of the car over the rear-line the other car should give space to let the car through."

This hasn't been a good weekend for you, are you more optimistic for the final two and can you still finish second in the Constructors' Championship?
SD: "Yes. We are in terms of pure performance as weak as the others are compared to Red Bull who are in their own league and maybe we can start there next year. With the others we are absolutely there so I am confident we can do our race and take the points that are needed to come second. Don't underestimate Lotus of course, because they had a problem and only scored points with one car, but that is racing. It should be an interesting couple of races."

There seemed to be some issues with the car in qualifying in recent races. What is the key to getting into the top five?
SD: "I think for sure we know that we have a lack of traction and downforce in certain corners and we need to manage the set up of the car and not just improve it. We know we are paying a big price also with temperature, because the more we go to hot conditions, the more our car is becoming inefficient. We are now moving to a situation where the conditions are more suitable for our car and that is why I said we still have everything to fight for."

[Forzi]

Which strange strategy to let Alonso be ahead?

You mean the much earlier second pit stop of Massa? Even that Alonsos 1st pit stop was before Massas?

Felipe


vs

Alonso [Lap - Time]


So I don't think they called Felipe to "early" (like they did with Webber last race).
Therefore Alonso was quicker (or equal at least) on the medium even they were two laps older ...
So by far no kind of evidence that they called Felipe to early and therefore he wasn't able to use the tires

Or do you mean the strange fact that Alonso was much longer on the medium tires (pit lap 44) even he started 2 laps earlier?
and was able to drive same times like Felipe after his second pit stop even with old medium tires?

Felipe


Alonso


so Felipe and Alonso had nearly same out-lap after pit-stop even with different tires ...

didn't Rob S said on team radio something like


So this comment from Rob S wasn't really sure what would happen ....

But to feed the paranoia: The problem changing left front tire was also pure intention at Felipes second stop ...

Felipe had to do less laps with the softs than he had to do on the first stint, with both tires being equally scrubbed (one quali lap done). Not to mention the car being lighter and the track much more rubbed in. If he had went for the softs, he would have been lapping over a sec faster than he did with the mediums so in no way would he have been behind Fernando. It was rather obvious and this is not something like "easy to judge after the race", can't accept that i was the only one going "what the hell" when he got the mediums on. Even Felipe who was busy racing, looking after the tires, defending and so on, knew that softs should have went on his car. An error was done with Fernando also, for not pitting earlier. Maby they wanted to try one stopping, but soon saw that they couldn't make it, but from a tactical point of view, they were really too deep in the soft tires window. Gladly, we weren't racing many drivers at that point besides Lewis with done tires.

This was in fact, tactically bad played by Ferrari in many ways in a straight forward situation and WCC points were as you say "thrown away".

[Poltergeistes]

Felipe had to do less laps with the softs than he had to do on the first stint, with both tires being equally scrubbed (one quali lap done). Not to mention the car being lighter and the track much more rubbed in. If he had went for the softs, he would have been lapping over a sec faster than he did with the mediums so in no way would he have been behind Fernando. It was rather obvious and this is not something like "easy to judge after the race", can't accept that i was the only one going "what the hell" when he got the mediums on. Even Felipe who was busy racing, looking after the tires, defending and so on, knew that softs should have went on his car. An error was done with Fernando also, for not pitting earlier. Maby they wanted to try one stopping, but soon saw that they couldn't make it, but from a tactical point of view, they were really too deep in the soft tires window. Gladly, we weren't racing many drivers at that point besides Lewis with done tires.

This was in fact, tactically bad played by Ferrari in many ways in a straight forward situation and WCC points were as you say "thrown away".

exactly, and felipe was very surprised that they didn't put on softs, so it's not like the occasion called for a gamble, when they do that an it doesn't pay off it is easy to understand, but when everything is all in place, and for no reason they do something like this, makes you wonder and ask why. and for stefano to just say monday morning quater-backing is simply insulting, he doesn't give the reason why they went for medium (slower) when they could have gone faster.

[paneristi]

very true :thumb
Off course it is easy for us fans to say in hindsight, but we have clever people on the pitwall that should not be making such obvious mistakes and we should expect them to do a better job than us ;-)

[Poltergeistes]

+1

Question though (a bit naïve perhaps). Why would Ferrari want Alonso ahead of Massa at this stage of the championship anyway? They threw away precious WCC points and surely they could do other things to secure 5th and 6th with Alonso in front (a longer pit stop, etc.)

To make sure that it is not a waste sending felipe packing to bring in kimi? that they held up telling felipe they weren't going to keep him way before the second half of the season? cause ricciardo is not as good as a second driver/shield as Massa?

You pick... and in all of those scenarios still Ferrari must come first, but again i think our problem is and has been the car, not the drivers... so if we simply change one driver, what about how we are making the cars? why we can't keep developing it during the season? all of those questions won't simply go away once Felipe empty his locker.

[sagi58]

WoW!!

We seem to have gone from no one is bigger than the team to
crucifying them for "ruining" Massa's race based on a decision
that was made in a split second!

[Poltergeistes]

WoW!!

We seem to have gone from no one is bigger than the team to
crucifying them for "ruining" Massa's race based on a decision
that was made in a split second!


They didn't ruin his race, but it was something not a last minute decision that cost the team points, how could we overcome a problem if we never acknowledge them, Stefano simply disregarded it. he wouldn't have done that if that had happened to Fernando's race, he would be apologizing instead of pretending nothing wrong happened.

[Hornet]

Off course it is easy for us fans to say in hindsight, but we have clever people on the pitwall that should not be making such obvious mistakes and we should expect them to do a better job than us ;-)

I agree that's true. But IMO, sometimes these decision making may be more complex than what it appears to us, when they have so many additional input and data that they are using to guide them. We often hear how computer simulation says this strategy is so and so, therefore I'm assuming they have some computer stuff running in real time during the race telling them what happens if we do this or that (ie. if the computer says A but their gut feeling says B, who to trust)

Well, hopefully the team learn from each experience and improve.

[abbottcostello]

Fact #1 - The team bosses (or decision makers, if you like) think Alonso is faster & able to give a better result on most occasions*

Fact #2 - Having your best driver* behind your #2 driver & trying to get past him is not a good circumstance.

Fact #3 - Decisions to driver strategy are not made in a void, the overall benefit to the team strategy is an overriding factor.

Fact #4 - Your #2 driver is looking for a new team for next season & MAY not cooperate if given team orders.

* - you could probably debate me, but the driver ranking I assigned is based on WDC standings of this 2013 season & the fact they have not retained Felipe for next year.

If I were the team principal, these are realities I would use in making the in-race strategy.
Cars should be quite even, so even though driver #1 is theoretically faster it will still be difficult to get by driver #2 & every overtaking maneuver involves risk. Overtaking often causes the pace of both cars to suffer. Any mishap & you're possibly not getting ANY WCC or WDC points at all.

I'd be looking for a strategy that gets my driver #1 ahead of my driver #2 in the safest way possible that does not affect EITHER one of them negatively and maximizes WCC points.

Based on earlier lap times in the race, having Felipe do his final stint on the prime tires should not cause him to lose any positions to others (I haven't really done the math on this part), but it should be enough to have Fernando come out of his stop slightly ahead of Felipe.

Lastly, I would never ask a pit crew or one member of it to purposely do a mistake, too much potential for it to go from a minor glitch to major gaff. I really doubt they practice pit stops with intentional mistakes & if they haven't practiced it, that would be idiocy to ask them to try it during a stop (Pssst, hey Alex, on this next pit stop, fumble around so it takes about 1 sec. longer to change the tire & don't tell anyone else what you're doing, got it???).

I call them facts, maybe assumptions of how I think a team would view things would be more accurate!

Excuse me, gotta go do the strategy for the USGP now or maybe I'll just wait until after the race:lol

[Poltergeistes]

Fact #1 - The team bosses (or decision makers, if you like) think Alonso is faster & able to give a better result on most occasions*

Fact #2 - Having your best driver* behind your #2 driver & trying to get past him is not a good circumstance.

Fact #3 - Decisions to driver strategy are not made in a void, the overall benefit to the team strategy is an overriding factor.

Fact #4 - Your #2 driver is looking for a new team for next season & MAY not cooperate if given team orders.

* - you could probably debate me, but the driver ranking I assigned is based on WDC standings of this 2013 season & the fact they have not retained Felipe for next year.

If I were the team principal, these are realities I would use in making the in-race strategy.
Cars should be quite even, so even though driver #1 is theoretically faster it will still be difficult to get by driver #2 & every overtaking maneuver involves risk. Overtaking often causes the pace of both cars to suffer. Any mishap & you're possibly not getting ANY WCC or WDC points at all.

I'd be looking for a strategy that gets my driver #1 ahead of my driver #2 in the safest way possible that does not affect EITHER one of them negatively and maximizes WCC points.

Based on earlier lap times in the race, having Felipe do his final stint on the prime tires should not cause him to lose any positions to others (I haven't really done the math on this part), but it should be enough to have Fernando come out of his stop slightly ahead of Felipe.

Lastly, I would never ask a pit crew or one member of it to purposely do a mistake, too much potential for it to go from a minor glitch to major gaff. I really doubt they practice pit stops with intentional mistakes & if they haven't practiced it, that would be idiocy to ask them to try it during a stop (Pssst, hey Alex, on this next pit stop, fumble around so it takes about 1 sec. longer to change the tire & don't tell anyone else what you're doing, got it???).

I call them facts, maybe assumptions of how I think a team would view things would be more accurate!

Excuse me, gotta go do the strategy for the USGP now or maybe I'll just wait until after the race:lol


Fact # 1 Felipe is mr nice guy fernando demands more from the team, since felipe isn't and wasnt a contender for the championship the pit crew would take a little longer to do their job, while fernando's they know fernando will deliver, so it all comes down to having a pitstop that is as fast as redbull ( all of this i'm talking about monza).

Fact #2 at this stage, what would be the problem in having felipe finishing the race in front of fernando? whenever he had to make way for fernando when the WDC was really on he did, he did in 2010 and in 2012 at crucial times, he didn't do it once this season, when everyone knew by then it was impossible to beat vettel for the championship.

fact #3 it's not about asking a guy at the pitcrew to do it slower, it would be a little more subtle, as you said, in ferrari felipe is already out of the door.

Fact# 4 these little glitches on felipes race strategy are really that unconceivable, when you take germany 2010 into account? when the team risk being punished for giving such order, because back then it was banned.

It only makes sense, say if real madrid is going to let go of ronaldo, and nobody knows, and the same week the coach says he wants him to stay in team, would it be smart to announce his exit and to break his contract in time for barcelona to pick him up? or would it be smarter to wait for the transfer window to close?

I think ferrari waited for redbull to get ricciardo, cause they know how good felipe can be with a good car. thats understanable an smart from the team's point of view.

its just that ferrari sometimes do somethings that hurts and is uncallled for, like stefano saying felipe would stay after the gp before monza, and then letting him go.

again i unerstand why the team held it in for so long, and actually gave signs that they would keep felipe, because at that point the wdc was still open, an they would need felipe to do the same job he did in the second half of 2012. but after it was clearly over as far as WDC goes, what difference does it make which comes ahead now? since we are fighting for second place in the WCC, i'm sure fernando is not going to quit or throw a fit because felipe finished one race in front of him, he's not like that. but for massa it would be important as he is looking for a job.

If felipe needs to show a good job now to get a job next season, this is good job for ferrari, so whats the matter with it? he has been doing that ever since he arrived at maranello, working hard to belong in the team.

i know felipe and ferrari will always have a connection, and a good relationship, i just think both sides shouldnt drop the ball now, the teams that can fight ferrari next season already have their lineup, so it's not like felipe is going to be a tough competitor agaisnt ferrari next season.

[ManFromMilan]

They didn't ruin his race, but it was something not a last minute decision that cost the team points, how could we overcome a problem if we never acknowledge them, Stefano simply disregarded it. he wouldn't have done that if that had happened to Fernando's race, he would be apologizing instead of pretending nothing wrong happened.

Sorry, but the Ferrari pitwall have led Fernando down too in the past. I don't rate the Ferrari pitwall as the #1 team when it comes to that kind of strategy.





Excuse me, gotta go do the strategy for the USGP now or maybe I'll just wait until after the race:lol


:rotfl

[Senna4Ever]

Felipe had to do less laps with the softs than he had to do on the first stint, with both tires being equally scrubbed (one quali lap done). Not to mention the car being lighter and the track much more rubbed in. If he had went for the softs, he would have been lapping over a sec faster than he did with the mediums so in no way would he have been behind Fernando. It was rather obvious and this is not something like "easy to judge after the race", can't accept that i was the only one going "what the hell" when he got the mediums on. Even Felipe who was busy racing, looking after the tires, defending and so on, knew that softs should have went on his car. An error was done with Fernando also, for not pitting earlier. Maby they wanted to try one stopping, but soon saw that they couldn't make it, but from a tactical point of view, they were really too deep in the soft tires window. Gladly, we weren't racing many drivers at that point besides Lewis with done tires.

This was in fact, tactically bad played by Ferrari in many ways in a straight forward situation and WCC points were as you say "thrown away".

I don't say that the decision to go for mediums was well chosen ... maybe I haven't said it straight enough.
Of course now we know it was a big mistake as we lost some valuable points against Lotus and especially against Merc. And Hamilton won't do us many favours again ...

I just say: it wasn't a purpose to let Alonso pass Felipe because then Ferrari must have known that he (Alonso) will be ahead of Felipe right after pit stop. And this was very unlikely as Alonso was still behind Felipe when 2nd pit stops began. And Alonso had to drive 6 more laps on older mediums than Felipe did. Would you place all your money on the result that Fernando will be ahead of Felipe while Felipe was able to race 6 laps with much fresher mediums than Alonso had? Under normal circumstances Ferrari's plan could only have been: that Alonso passes Felipe after 2nd pit stop as Alonso had softs instead of mediums. But that would have implied to sacrify valuable points for Ferrari ... which I can't imagine Alonso wants too ... but who knows ... and as we see how they are acting and respecting each other I don't think that Alonso wants that Felipe has to suffer some places down the grid ... maybe change 5 & 6th if its for his ego but not 5th for him and only 8th for Felipe.

Felipes 2nd pit stop unfortunately lasted 1 second more than Alonsos (22.315 vs 21.453) because they had the problem to put on the left front tire - and this situation gave Alonso the opportunity to get ahead of the Felipe imho .. not the difference between the tire types as he (Alonso) didn't had a chance to play out the advantage with softs yet.
Of course with different tire type Alonso was then able to do better times as Felipe but only 2nd lap after the pit stop. But without the mistake in the pit - which costs Felipe 1 second against Alonso - Felipe would have been once again before Alonso (any maby also closer to Vergne and earlier in DRS Zone and therefore still ahead of Alonso and Vergne ....)
It is no doubt that Felipe would have been ahead of Alonso if he (Felipe) would have had softs also for last stint but then the fact would be that Felipe would have had and advantage of 6 laps on softs compared to 6 laps with very old mediums of Alonso. And therefore no surprise that he should have been ahead - bad if not.

Even it would have been very interesting how this would have worked out if Alonso would have been behind Felipe after second stop (which should have been the case anyway not considering the tires which are not directly responsible for the change of positions) as Felipe lead the race speed trap classification by far against Alonso (only 15th) (and 2010 has shown it matters on the straight). Could have been interesting ... as Alonso didn't made a sign to overtake Felipe when he closed the gap after 1st pit stop.

All I want to say: it was a failure yes. But this failure wasn't provoked to bring Alonso ahead of Felipe - imho ... If really required there would have been more reliable ways to do so especially as we don't need to hide it anymore.

But as I said before in other thread: if everything is going well you will also make decisions which are right. But when you're not convinced in yourself you're making also more silly failures and decisions ...

[Greig]

WoW!!

We seem to have gone from no one is bigger than the team to
crucifying them for "ruining" Massa's race based on a decision
that was made in a split second!

A touch dramatic maybe? Nobody is crucifying anybody and the pitstop was not done in a split second decision.

Also I must have missed the no one is bigger than the team debate that we went from?

[wisepie]

Even just watching from my armchair, I assumed they'd put softs on Felipe's 2nd stop, so hindsight doesn't come into it, it was a no-brainer, surely, and deprived Felipe of a better result....again.:-s

[Kingdom Hearts]

The press is really stupid sometimes.

http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38083:f1-alonso-race-injury-triggers-questions-over-ferrari-formula-1-team-relationships&catid=1:f1&Itemid=157

No polemics this weekend, we will try to create one for you.

[Greig]

LOL what a terrible "news" story.

[Fer138]

The press is really stupid sometimes.

http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38083:f1-alonso-race-injury-triggers-questions-over-ferrari-formula-1-team-relationships&catid=1:f1&Itemid=157

No polemics this weekend, we will try to create one for you.

Absolutely, making something where there is nothing. Must be a really slow news week.

Another take of the incident, which I thought funny and done in good humour. Now we know what Fernando is up to when he is not driving in f1 :-D
http://www.formula1blog.com/formula-1/why-alonso-passed-hospital-check-in-abu-dhabi/

[Sonic Feathers]

It's just what all the teams do to gift advantage as it has been painfully obvious if we look at RB, one moment SV & MW are on a par almost taking each other out, then choice driver is chosen after that (in most occasions) it was MW clutch that prevented good starts, slow/problem pit stops, mechanical or electrical issues. (Yes SV had his alternator issues but that was possibly a surprise to Horner). As to the Scuderia, FM has had many a wrongly timed 'box' call & also couldn't get his tyres working yet they did better on FAs car in the beginning of last year & the beginning of this year. Why? So a points advantage is established & then no 2 must back no 1 from there on out. Often FM has been called in early or late & this changed the outcome of his race adversely (yes is sometimes happens with FA as well -i.e. pit wall bad judgement call at that point. At Mc 2012 JB also was derailed more often than LH, which is why they had their on track spat. I believe it is one of the reasons FA left Mc 'cos the were diminishing his true ability in favour of the then glory-kid. I assume then that Team Orders are not the only way to affect any teams outcome in a race, e.g. you can glorify your preferred driver over his team mate & say "Woops! We called his stop too early or he had clutch issues". Would Porsche really want to sign a retarded grid starter? It isn't parity or 'sporting' but in a sport is notorious for weighing options & still do it in public as they can get away with it & blame circumstance. Imagine MW or FM frustration at never having a fair chance to totally shine unless if you shine by protecting a team mates' position to the flag or by bedeviling the mates race to favour an opposition team. Other drivers also had similar ...
e.g. (not said to irk FA loyalists, I am a loyal Ferrari supporter who back both our drivers) but re-look at Monaco quali FM was on a magic lap, at the pit entrance he had to get off it & had to start further down than his time would have allowed. Why? There was a slowing Ferrari in the way entering the pit. Nothing was said as FM just sucks up all his adverse circumstance & gets on with it with a smile (unless LH is concerned). Imagine whinging to to the stewards that your team mate scuppered your time! Nup,
manipulations in every facit of F1 exist. If you are not the chosen one, then you are there to support the chosen one & score but score less on points than him.
It's going to be interesting 2014, I doubt KR is going to acquiesce in the same manner.
I pray that LdM is right that we can still accomplish 2nd in WCC this year.

[sagi58]

A touch dramatic maybe? Nobody is crucifying anybody and the pitstop was not done in a split second decision.

Also I must have missed the no one is bigger than the team debate that we went from?

A touch dramatic? Possibly; but, then again, I wouldn't be the first to don that particular cape!

We've had the "no one is bigger than the team" comments made over and again regarding Alonso
and recently about Kimi! I just find it "sweet" that Massa fans seem to think his race is being
jeopardized for Alonso when in fact, there is nothing to be gained from it as the WDC is done!

And, please, don't read anything into that other than I appreciate and respect Massa!! ;-)

[sagi58]

The press is really stupid sometimes.

http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38083:f1-alonso-race-injury-triggers-questions-over-ferrari-formula-1-team-relationships&catid=1:f1&Itemid=157

No polemics this weekend, we will try to create one for you.

You would have to assume that the reporter writing this "article" hasn't ever had any sort of sports injury!!
If they'd had one, they'd know that you feel worse the day after!!

[Greig]

A touch dramatic? Possibly; but, then again, I wouldn't be the first to don that particular cape!

We've had the "no one is bigger than the team" comments made over and again regarding Alonso
and recently about Kimi! I just find it "sweet" that Massa fans seem to think his race is being
jeopardized for Alonso when in fact, there is nothing to be gained from it as the WDC is done!

And, please, don't read anything into that other than I appreciate and respect Massa!! ;-)

Could you show me these no one is bigger than the team debates about Alonso and Kimi please?

I have not see anyone say Massa's race was jeopardized to help Alonso either? Maybe you can show me them as well as above?

Or is this another one of those posts where you make up what people are saying just to have another little dig at Massa fans....yeah that would be it.

[Forzi]

All I want to say: it was a failure yes. But this failure wasn't provoked to bring Alonso ahead of Felipe - imho ... If really required there would have been more reliable ways to do so especially as we don't need to hide it anymore.
Would have been fun to see if both went for the softs, Fernando having them fresher and closing in to Felipe. Doesn't matter if Felipe had pushed the mediums and ended up in front of Fernando who got out with softs. Softs were estimated to be 1,5 sec faster than the mediums. Straight line speed would not matter much since softs let you get out of the corner faster, accelerate faster and stop faster. In either way, behind or in front, Fernando would have passed Felipe with the obviously better strategy that Felipe should have easily carried out also.

Just to make a point, i don't care if Ferrari did this intentionally or not. Was irritated at first since i lost a bottle of beer to someone i don't like loosing too, but now i don't care really. But at that point in the race it was rather obvious what tires should be chosen. Absolutely no gamble intended, seeing how the first stint went. And i dear to say, the team acted simply too stupidly and aimlessly in a obvious situation, that's why i'm having a hard time to believe they did not intend to get Fernando in front. No disrespect to the team of course.

[Suzie]

WoW!!

We seem to have gone from no one is bigger than the team to
crucifying them for "ruining" Massa's race based on a decision
that was made in a split second!

Over-reacting, much?

The team has been subject to plenty of criticism regarding Fernando's strategies also in the past. So I fail to get your point :wave

[ManFromMilan]

Over-reacting, much?

The team has been subject to plenty of criticism regarding Fernando's strategies also in the past. So I fail to get your point :wave



Easy to get the point when Fernando, personally, is so easily criticized for his fans' overzealous jumping to conclusions.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

[Greig]

Easy to get the point when Fernando, personally, is so easily criticized for his fans' overzealous jumping to conclusions.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

What?

[brembo man]

Please gander at this, I for one can't blame the drivers for not finishing better than 5th and 8th last race. Unless it's actually them calling to the pit for there chioce of tire, and when to change. Both Alonso and Massa are dong all they can do with what they have with the team.

[Poltergeistes]

A touch dramatic? Possibly; but, then again, I wouldn't be the first to don that particular cape!

We've had the "no one is bigger than the team" comments made over and again regarding Alonso
and recently about Kimi! I just find it "sweet" that Massa fans seem to think his race is being
jeopardized for Alonso when in fact, there is nothing to be gained from it as the WDC is done!

And, please, don't read anything into that other than I appreciate and respect Massa!! ;-)

Sagi, i think the Massa fans are not really thinking it's being jeopardized for the benefit of fernando, i even mentioned it in a post, i dont think that at this point fernando will have a seizure if felipe finishes one race in front of him, he is not like that.

the point here is wether ferrari doesnt want to give fans reasons to not support and be critical of the swap between felipe and kimi, because at this point if we look at the entire season, there's no reason to crucify felipe for somethin that is not really his fault.

the first half of the season the car was ok but not as fast to challenge the rebull, only to fight with mercedes and lotus, the summer break comes, an the car goes from that to unmanageable, you see both drivers struggling to keep it up with lotus, i been saying since then, if a driver like fernando( clearly the best of this generetion) couldn't even catch grosjean no matter how much he tried all races, then there's no doubt it's the car and not the drivers.

I'm a felipe fan, an i will be the first to admit that, if he has a good car he is a contender, but if not he isn't, and from 2007 to 2009 kimi proved he is just as good as felipe but without the will.

all along this 4 years, fernando has been putting this car where it doesn't really belong, not just the car, but our strategy needs to improve, even on that fernando can make up for.

if we have a good and competitive car next season, kimi can give alonso a run for his money, just like i beleive felipe could, but god forbid we still have a car that is an underdog, fernando is likely to dominate.

the problem i see (an even felipe said it so to stefano when he was told he wasn't staying) felipe is a nice guy, he takes the orders, he doesn't have that typical driver attitude (maybe thats why he hasn't done better) kimi, will be on the radio and acting so different if he is put in the same position next season, an everyone will be mad here, IF the scenario is the same as he was put on 2009 with felipe, the lack of motivation and care from him.

this is why i think 2 weeks before ferrari announcing felipe's exit, stefano was saying he wanted felipe to stay, he knows if kimi does this, stefano's head will be the next to roll. ( which i wont like cause i really like him, he is a good a guy, he tries to be fair)

my bet is that Brawn is seeing this, an he will be on his sabbath, if the car isn't a winner next season, brawn will come back.

[ManFromMilan]

Please gander at this, I for one can't blame the drivers for not finishing better than 5th and 8th last race. Unless it's actually them calling to the pit for there chioce of tire, and when to change. Both Alonso and Massa are dong all they can do with what they have with the team.



And that's the gooses truth...

Maybe if they had their pitstops a lap apart both could have tried the same strategy and who knows. Back to the hindsight is 20/20

Fact is they didn't and probably because of those few laps more the harder tire option was better for Felipe even if it was just safer.

[stefa]

Isn't this all now water under bridge?

[brembo man]

Isn't this all now water under bridge?

If you mean the Abu Dhabi race, slow down we didn't get to Austin yet.

[stefa]

If you mean the Abu Dhabi race, slow down we didn't get to Austin yet.

Yes I mean. It all boring to day in, day out about what could have been if FM had this or that tires.
B O R I N G!!!!

[Greig]

Not different to the Indian GP with you and others on about Alonso's strategy?

[stefa]

Not different to the Indian GP with you and others on about Alonso's strategy?

I am speaking only about me and mentioned Indian GP and FA strategy. I was talking about it only on Sunday during and after the race. Today is 4th day after Abu Dhabi GP and there is still talks about FA and FM tire strategies. Silly!
Any way it doesn't matter who was in front, because neither one is competing for WDC, but for CWC points, so it is irrelevant which one is in front.

[Greig]

I am speaking only about me and mentioned Indian GP and FA strategy. I was talking about it only on Sunday during and after the race. Today is 4th day after Abu Dhabi GP and there is still talks about FA and FM tire strategies. Silly!
Any way it doesn't matter who was in front, because neither one is competing for WDC, but for CWC points, so it is irrelevant which one is in front.

Well you don't have to take part in discussions that you feel have a time limit :-) I don't see much talk about it anyway 4 days after other than you mentioned it ;-) But still if people want to talk about the race then this is the race thread.

[fratelliferrari]

Felipe Massa team radio Abu Dhabi -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6RiIg3M5kw