Massa rates Alonso above Schumacher (again) - right or wrong?

[Lesky]

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/9012400/Massa-rates-Alonso-above-Schumi

7th November.


Felipe Massa reckons current team-mate Fernando Alonso is a stronger driver than seven-time World Champion Michael Schumacher.

Although Alonso only has two World titles to Schumacher's seven, Massa, who has partnered both during his time at Ferrari, believes it is the Spaniard who weighs in as the more complete driver.

In a Q&A on the Ferrari website the Brazilian was asked which of his many team-mates was the strongest.

"Schumacher was as quick, but in terms of intelligence, Alonso is better because he manages to put everything together perfectly..."

Felipe Massa

He responded: "Fernando.

"Schumacher was as quick, but in terms of intelligence, Alonso is better because he manages to put everything together perfectly.
----
The question I have? How can Massa compare an old Schumachers last season with a 29-32 year old Alonso in his prime? Is this a fair comparison in your opinion?

Is this partially a way of Massa to explain/excuse why he has been crushed by Alonso the last years? No shame in getting beat by the best sort of.

[Greig]

He compared them on his time driving with them at Ferrari, what more can he do? And 2006 was not the last season for MS anyway.

But yeah he is just saying it to make excuses if it makes you feel better about his opinion :-) There is no right or wrong, he has his opinion and you will have your own.

[Kingdom Hearts]

Schumi was far from old in 2006, at least in driving skills.

[Lesky]

Schumi was far from old in 2006, at least in driving skills.

He was still very good, but obviously not as quick as in age 29-30 - thats a fact since age matters.

[Catalan]

Massa shared team with Schumi just one year, ( 2006 ), please correct me if I'm wrong, and has been 4 years with Alonso. So, he has had plenty of time to look at Fernando and to know how he is, his capabilities, skills, strong points and weaknesses, how he deals with pressure, media, and all kind of situations.

While it's true that Michael won 7 titles ( 5 in red ), Fernando has won 2 titles, but nobody will discuss that as of today, in normal conditions, he could be on the books with 5 ( 2005 and 2006, plus 2007, 2010 and 2012 ).

So, no doubt we are comparing two of the all-time GREATEST.

And personally I agree, Alonso, to me, is a bit better than Schumacher. Couldn't say just one thing. It's about the whole package. I can recall what Flavio Briatore said when asked about what who would win: Vettel, Hamilton or Alonso if the 3 drivers were given the same car. His answer ( and I agree ) was " on Qualy, on Saturday, probably Hamilton would be first, followed by Seb and Fer, but on Sunday, Alonso would win the race ".

So, in a nutshell, I agree with Massa.

[FFFerrari]

Is this partially a way of Massa to explain/excuse why he has been crushed by Alonso the last years? No shame in getting beat by the best sort of.

One could say that. Or that it is his genuine opinion. Personally I think Schumacher is in the top 3 of drivers ever, Alonso barely scraping top 10. But that is my opinion and nothing more.

[Lesky]

While it's true that Michael won 7 titles ( 5 in red ), Fernando has won 2 titles, but nobody will discuss that as of today, in normal conditions, he could be on the books with 5 ( 2005 and 2006, plus 2007, 2010 and 2012 ).

Schumacher lost at least 3 titles the last race of a season, so he could be on books with 10 titles as well :-)

[Katu]

i think he is right, it's his opinion and he has right to say whatever he wants

[Greig]

Well Irvine did say MS was hopeless at setting the car up, had slow reactions. So maybe Felipe is right :-)

[stefa]

Well Irvine did say MS was hopeless at setting the car up, had slow reactions. So maybe Felipe is right :-)

Somehow with all that we managed to score 91 wins and 7 WDC. Not bad for someone who is hopeless in setting up the car with slow reaction.

[fratelliferrari]

Is it really that important who is best. I don't think you can compare exactly.

[F2002]

Perhaps Felipe got all mixed up with this 1571 points thing, but to me it's ridiculous to say that a seven-time World Champion is not better than Alonso.

Compare them on the basis of any stat you want (pole positions, fastest laps, race wins, number of podiums - all expressed as a percentage of the number of race starts) to see why Schumacher is better.

And a small comment about this thing of drivers being good or bad at setting their cars up, because the modern drivers aren't any better than their predecessors, especially because most setups today are finalized on a computer, way before the cars arrive at the track.

[Greig]

Perhaps Felipe got all mixed up with this 1571 points thing, but to me it's ridiculous to say that a seven-time World Champion is not better than Alonso.

Compare them on the basis of any stat you want (pole positions, fastest laps, race wins, number of podiums - all expressed as a percentage of the number of race starts) to see why Schumacher is better.

And a small comment about this thing of drivers being good or bad at setting their cars up, because the modern drivers aren't any better than their predecessors, especially because most setups today are finalized on a computer, way before the cars arrive at the track.

I rate MS ahead of Alonso (only just) but I would not base it on titles, poles etc. MS had some very very good cars in his time that were well ahead of any rival. Plus if it went on titles then you would need to rate Vettel ahead of Alonso :-D

[F2002]

I rate MS ahead of Alonso (only just) but I would not base it on titles, poles etc. MS had some very very good cars in his time that were well ahead of any rival. Plus if it went on titles then you would need to rate Vettel ahead of Alonso :-D

Interestingly, although Schumacher has a much better pole position % score, their respective podium % scores compare very well (Schumi = 50%, Alonso = 44%, numbers calculated from their respective Wikipedia pages).

It probably goes to show how good Alonso is at administering a race, and sort of ties up with Felipe's comment about being quick versus being "intelligent".

This is also where the entire argument about Vettel lies, I think, because people equate him with "quick" and not with "intelligent". When they say that Vettel will only prove himself if he wins with a different car, they probably mean a slower car. After all, if Ferrari build a super car and Vettel gets to drive it in a few years' time, winning championships like he is doing at RBR today, that won't be enough to convince the doubters will it?

[Tifoso]

Well Irvine did say MS was hopeless at setting the car up, had slow reactions. So maybe Felipe is right :-)

Does make you wonder, huh? Maybe Irvine and Rubens were the real set up geniuses. :-)

[Poltergeistes]

Does make you wonder, huh? Maybe Irvine and Rubens were the real set up geniuses. :-)


well rumour has it. that this is the very reason why ferrari got rubens, by then had worked for many different teams, under the eyes of several F1 technicians, desiners and mechanics, he was already known to be more of a setup driver than anything, since they never gave him good cars before, always very unreliable, and he was known for driving crippled cars around and still finish the races.

Michael has also said that this was the main difference between the 2 partners he had, he said when it was rubens testing the car then he could sleep at night cause he knew things would be done right. and back then they used to test alot, it was the peak of f1 testing wasn't it?

[Alonsomaniac]

I never look at titels or wins. I always look at what a driver can do with the car he is in. That's why for me Senna is still the best, very closely followed by Gilles and Fernando. Schumacher is a very close 4th to those three although he has won more championships than the others together.
But hey, just another opinion. At least Felipe agrees with me on Fernando/Michael....:lol

[Poltergeistes]

I never look at titels or wins. I always look at what a driver can do with the car he is in. That's why for me Senna is still the best, very closely followed by Gilles and Fernando. Schumacher is a very close 4th to those three although he has won more championships than the others together.
But hey, just another opinion. At least Felipe agrees with me on Fernando/Michael....:lol

I agree with you! I would also classify them in that order, for the same reason you mentioned, this is why to me fernando has earned at least 3 times more points with me from when he arrived in maranello.

His ability to overcome any obstacles during sundays is amazing, and the consistency, cause we know it's one thing to not make errors when you have a car that is the fastest at least half a second per lap, and is so well balanced and has no downsides like the redbull, but whenever your not in the fastest car, then it means you gotta push harder, and that makes you prone to errors, to losing it, i think it's one of the reasons that felipe hasn't been doing well, fernando has become very good at this during this 4 years with us.

really hope next year we at least have a more leveled field, i think if we can at least manage tyres better, fernando can make up for it, vettel is good, but not as good and cool as nando.

[brembo man]

The chin drove, and Vetell is driving two of the best F1 cars ever. Todasy it's common knowledge by most all fans, it's the Red Billions rocket propelling Vetell to victory and pole most every race. He's only a good driver, even though he's breaking records, "It's the car." In the chins day it was him only that was the reason for success. Tthe car was hardly mentioned as a reason for the victories at Ferrari, well untill Alonso whopped the chin twice, then the car was the reason. I for one held the car and Ferrari's team as a whole for the success. and hate me if you will, Rubens was a big reason both as a wing man taking team orders, like it or not, and as mentioned, in setting up the great cars they both had. Fast foward to Alonso, with what Ferrari now has to offer their #1 driver compared to the chin and throw in Vetell over there, Alonso is by far the best of the lot and will be for some time. Ask Briatori if you don't agree with me. Massa is right in the money. He's not just a fan, he was there!

[Rishu]

Aahh that's a really tough one. Obviously Massa is comparing Schumacher from 2006 season to Alonso. Schumacher was driving his best during late 90's. I will still rate MS > FA but Alonso is by far the best of his generation & driving his best right now.

[Poltergeistes]

so now we can divide the generations here, ok so michael schumacher was the last of the bigs, of the past, he raced senna, at his prime he raced rakkinen, he raced montoyas willians he raced villenueve williams and hills ... ok mainly before the ferrari 5 star era michael has been racing agasint what alonso is now, 51% great cars 49% great racers.

So its nice to know that this generation, which begins with alonso an is still here, cause, can fernando drive or what? an we thought geniuses were only in the past... we have the best, so lets give him a decent car.

[ManFromMilan]

Well Irvine did say MS was hopeless at setting the car up, had slow reactions. So maybe Felipe is right :-)



Well i still believe that Eddie Jordan and Eddie Irvine like and liked the sound of their own voices way too much. In both i would only consider listening to about 10% of what they had to say.:Hmm

[Suzie]

Ew, please do not compare EJ to Eddie Irvine :-??

[Alessandra]

In my view, if the last 4 years have taught us anything it's that the number of WDCs a driver has accumulated is not indicative of his overall prowess over certain other drivers. There's car advantage, the quallity of the opposition at any time, luck, just for 3.

[diego_alunan]

I respect his decision its his point of view.. and reading all the comments it is true that massa only spent less time with MSC than with ALO.. I could also point out that Massa and Alo probably had better personal and pro relationship in ferrari thus solidifying his statement...

In the end its his opinion and there's nothing we can do to change it. Everyone has one so lets not lose sleep over this..

[Ferrarichamp]

If Alonso were truly better than MS in his prime, I feel confident he (Alonso) would have at least one more title by now.

[Greig]

If Alonso were truly better than MS in his prime, I feel confident he (Alonso) would have at least one more title by now.

Not sure how that would show much other than he had a car to win the title. I am confident that Alonso would have won 5 titles with Ferrari from 2000 to 2004 the same as MS did. Ferrari gave MS the cars to go out there and win titles, we have not given Alonso the same yet.

[stefa]

Is it right or wrong, but on my list there is one and only great (up to Mercedes era) Michael Schumacher alone on the top!

[stefa]

Just to add to mine previos post.
I am Ferrari fan, not a driver fan, and in mine opinion team is above everything.

[brembo man]

If Alonso were truly better than MS in his prime, I feel confident he (Alonso) would have at least one more title by now.

Well he did beat the chin 2xs. The chin lost bcause of the not so good Ferrari? Well, Alonso"s current Ferrari is not so good.

[F2008]

If anyone is able to judge them it should be Felipe, and I think the number of titles is irrelevant. Rubens could have had 3 also.

[stefa]

If anyone is able to judge them it should be Felipe, and I think the number of titles is irrelevant. Rubens could have had 3 also.

When were those 3 to happen?

[brembo man]

When were those 3 to happen?

Pick any one of the races Todt told Ruben's to"Let him pass" or any race the chin just took it upon himself to dhange what was supposed to be a win for his teamate.

[stefa]

Pick any one of the races Todt told Ruben's to"Let him pass" or any race the chin just took it upon himself to dhange what was supposed to be a win for his teamate.

And there was one in US GP when MS had clear win, but he opted to cross the line together with RB and lost it to him....

[brembo man]

And there was one in US GP when MS had clear win, but he opted to cross the line together with RB and lost it to him....

I was there for that race. Iw wouldn't call it a clear win Rubens was up front too, but he prob. backed off thinking about the disgrace at Austria. The Indy race where only 8 cars participated, due to the Michelin disaster was Rubens race for sure. The chin stole that one too. But all in all it was nice of the chin to let Vetell pass even though he's not on his team. There's some good in everybody.

[scuderia_nano]

I was there for that race. Iw wouldn't call it a clear win Rubens was up front too, but he prob. backed off thinking about the disgrace at Austria. The Indy race where only 8 cars participated, due to the Michelin disaster was Rubens race for sure. The chin stole that one too. But all in all it was nice of the chin to let Vetell pass even though he's not on his team. There's some good in everybody.

Not good really. Chin hates Alonso. And also doesn't "love" Ferrari exactly. He loves Vettel though. Always been someone who talks good bout Seb. Could be cz Seb's beating someone who beat Chin or Could be German connection.

[BigGar32]

Not good really. Chin hates Alonso. And also doesn't "love" Ferrari exactly. He loves Vettel though. Always been someone who talks good bout Seb. Could be cz Seb's beating someone who beat Chin or Could be German connection.

What makes you think Schumacher hates Alonso? Please tell me where you've seen/heard that. I've not seen anything of the sort. Yes they were pretty big rivals but I can't see hatred between either of them to be honest.

[scuderia_nano]

What makes you think Schumacher hates Alonso? Please tell me where you've seen/heard that. I've not seen anything of the sort. Yes they were pretty big rivals but I can't see hatred between either of them to be honest.

No reasons. Mutual respect exists amongst all drivers. But Schumacher would rather see Vettel champion than Alonso. Something seen on track as well as hinted in his comments.

He did mention last year that he'd want to see Ferrari win the WCC and strangely no mention of Alonso's WDC.

He likes Vettel more than anyone on the grid and only him, he would see to succeed.

[demon2424]

Cant believe Massa said Alonso is better than Schumi. I used to think Schumacher is the best driver the spot has ever seen. Its also said by FOM. But anyways, I don't and won't ever think Alonso could be Schumacher even if he is given a good car.

[Hermann]

Cant believe Massa said Alonso is better than Schumi. I used to think Schumacher is the best driver the spot has ever seen. Its also said by FOM. But anyways, I don't and won't ever think Alonso could be Schumacher even if he is given a good car.

Thats your opinion. Massa, who has raced with him in the same team, obviously thinks different. I'll take his opinion for now :-D

[brembo man]

Not good really. Chin hates Alonso. And also doesn't "love" Ferrari exactly. He loves Vettel though. Always been someone who talks good bout Seb. Could be cz Seb's beating someone who beat Chin or Could be German connection.

Giustamente ! That's exactly what I think .

[brembo man]

Cant believe Massa said Alonso is better than Schumi. I used to think Schumacher is the best driver the spot has ever seen. Its also said by FOM. But anyways, I don't and won't ever think Alonso could be Schumacher even if he is given a good car.

Very true. Even with a good car for Alonso or Massa to the be chin they would also need Todt on the radio telling there teamate to " Let them pass."

[brembo man]

Thats your opinion. Massa, who has raced with him in the same team, obviously thinks different. I'll take his opinion for now :-D

Well said! I'll take Massa's opinion for sure. He was right in the mix, co pilot, you can't get any closer to the real deal.

[scuderia_nano]

I don't know how to conclude?

Listen to 2 team principals and a driver who raced with both or a bunch of fans and journos!

Anyways I don't think Schumacher is the best the sport has seen. Cz if he is, Vettel is 3rd best cz of the races and titles won.

I do think Scuderia Ferrari is really the toughest and best team in the world. Probably the only team that can make guys like Kimi Raikkonen also title winners.