Fernando worried about Kimi work ethics?

[Kingdom Hearts]

He said this on the Spanish TV, did my best with the translation:


Surely Felipe is a pure worker (I guess he means a hard worker), he works night and day for the team and to improve the car, I don't know Kimi but the rumors are that he speaks very little and he is isolated and probably that's what Ferrari is going to miss (from Massa), but now we have to think in making a good car.....

He said "rumors" but I'm pretty sure that the team, specially Felipe and Andrea Stella (someone that knows Kimi very well) already told him about Kimi, so, should the team be concerned that the development of the car when it comes to the simulator is now only done by Fernando and Pedro?, if the car is not good enough from day one, can we expect Kimi to work hard to improve the car?. I was not a Ferrari fan before Fernando arrived to the team, so I know nothing about Kimi behavior outside what the media says, and we know that the media is quite manipulative.

[Alonso14]

I believe that he just wanted to say something good about Felipe.

He already stated that having 2 experienced drivers (the 2nd being Kimi) will be very important for the development of the car in the early parts of next season.

[LivingHitokiri]

Kimi's problem is that he gets dizziness with the simulator hence he tends to use the time during winter testing and work up the setup . So far it worked fine for him but it seems to be a problem for the test drivers ?
I mean simulators are nice and all but the biggest work it is done at testings as far as i know.

[Hermann]

Kimi's problem is that he gets dizziness with the simulator hence he tends to use the time during winter testing and work up the setup . So far it worked fine for him but it seems to be a problem for the test drivers ?
I mean simulators are nice and all but the biggest work it is done at testings as far as i know.

And because testing has become so limited the simulator work has become much more important. Fernando spent lots of time there before 2013, but maybe because of the windtunnel correlation problems, it didn't help much.

In any case, there is no use in speculating about work ethics before the new season even started.

[wisepie]

And because testing has become so limited the simulator work has become much more important. Fernando spent lots of time there before 2013, but maybe because of the windtunnel correlation problems, it didn't help much.

In any case, there is no use in speculating about work ethics before the new season even started.

Very true, Hermann, and we should maybe keep an open mind until the season is upon us before assessing our drivers' work ethics, with luck the new wind tunnel will solve some of our problems but we somehow have to get one step ahead of Newey.

[LivingHitokiri]

And because testing has become so limited the simulator work has become much more important. Fernando spent lots of time there before 2013, but maybe because of the windtunnel correlation problems, it didn't help much.

In any case, there is no use in speculating about work ethics before the new season even started.

True,simulator do help indeed especially with limited testing, but, what we practically see that the teams "test" and configuring their cars during first race season pointing pretty much that no matter how much simulation you did you still need to get on track data.
To be honest, i think the media is making way too much unnecessary fuss about both Kimi and Fernado .

[Petronius]

He said this on the Spanish TV, did my best with the translation:



He said "rumors" but I'm pretty sure that the team, specially Felipe and Andrea Stella (someone that knows Kimi very well) already told him about Kimi, so, should the team be concerned that the development of the car when it comes to the simulator is now only done by Fernando and Pedro?, if the car is not good enough from day one, can we expect Kimi to work hard to improve the car?. I was not a Ferrari fan before Fernando arrived to the team, so I know nothing about Kimi behavior outside what the media says, and we know that the media is quite manipulative.

I wouldn't be too concerned. Ferrari and Allison has a lot of data on Alonso's and Kimi's driving styles.Question is more which path will be chosen in development work. Allison is aware that Kimi prefers sensitive front and over steer in a more narrow window than Alonso. Alonso is said to be most complete and best adaptor of various set ups. Therefor logic step is to develop car to that narrow window direction in Kimi's liking, to optimize result on track. After all we are talking about a team effort here and result as well. Simulator work is a part of story.

It is not ideal Kimi can`t participate in this part of development (simulation), but after all this Year didn't go too bad for him even though situation was the same at Lotus. I see the big picture giving Alonso an advantage looking at car development for next season, because he will be able to give his feed back to the engineers in an earlier stage and in his liking.

What comes to work ethics, every driver should primarily focus on personal in put. Team principal is person who tells drivers what they should do, not the other way around.

[mirafiori]

I'am sure when testing starts Kimi will contribute his fair share of the work load, Allison was working with Kimi at Lotus and he must of been OK in what he was contributing, if not he would of prevented Kimi coming back to Ferrari.

[Hornet]

True,simulator do help indeed especially with limited testing, but, what we practically see that the teams "test" and configuring their cars during first race season pointing pretty much that no matter how much simulation you did you still need to get on track data.
To be honest, i think the media is making way too much unnecessary fuss about both Kimi and Fernado .

That's true, as far as understanding the setup of the new car, I believe those are done during winter testing. As for simulators, if I'm not mistaken I heard Sky said that the drivers will be working on them until mid December or something, there's very little break for the driver. The thing is, next year the cars will generally behave very differently, such as the different torque which affects the way the car accelerate or how they maintain throttle through a corner. Drivers will have to start "tuning themself" to this new driving style, which is probably why they do after the season end. They need a lot of practice in the simulator so when the winter testing comes, they can focus on other stuff and not find themself trying to learn the new car behavior

[FFFerrari]

Kimi suffers from motion sickness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_sickness#Simulation_sickness) or atleast he used to back in the day. No reports from Lotus regarding this so we don't if the simulators have evolved so that he can use them.

There is extra winter testing thanks to all the changes in the rules so I wouldn't be too concerned about the development and setup side of things yet. Or work ethics of future drivers for that matter. Fernando hasn't worked with Kimi yet so all he knows are the rumors. The previous race engineers have reported that Kimi does talk surprisingly lot about the car and setup and that is what matters. Obviously he isn't exactly chatty with the media.

[Greig]

I wouldn't be too concerned. Ferrari and Allison has a lot of data on Alonso's and Kimi's driving styles.Question is more which path will be chosen in development work. Allison is aware that Kimi prefers sensitive front and over steer in a more narrow window than Alonso. Alonso is said to be most complete and best adaptor of various set ups. Therefor logic step is to develop car to that narrow window direction in Kimi's liking, to optimize result on track. After all we are talking about a team effort here and result as well. Simulator work is a part of story.

No it would be better to design the car around being as fast as possible, then the drivers work to their own preferences with setup work.

[Petronius]

No it would be better to design the car around being as fast as possible, then the drivers work to their own preferences with setup work.

That is given fact and wish. To be fastest. Secondary how to handle power. That was my point.

[Nero Horse]

Ferrari knows exactly what Kimi is about and they know all of his strengths and weaknesses, so I wouldn't worry about Kimi not being up to the task. He may be a crazy party guy and kind of a slacker, but he certainly knows what he's doing behind the wheel of a race car. I'm sure that Ferrari didn't take this decision lightly, so there's really no reason to worry. Kimi is one of the best racing drivers in the world and I'm sure he's gonna do just fine. If the team can provide Alonso and Kimi with a really good car then this duo will completely destroy the opposition.

[Suzie]

Oh no I hope he is not made to do simulator work which might cause him to vomit all over himself in a humiliating manner. That would be terrible.

[Alonsomaniac]

Oh no I hope he is not made to do simulator work which might cause him to vomit all over himself in a humiliating manner. That would be terrible.

:rotfl :roll

[Alonsomaniac]

I don't think Fernando nor Kimi are worried about eachother. Both have been in F1 for many years now so they have known eachother for a long time already.
Both are a little older already, so I think they will work together in a serious way. Of course there will be differences, but these are two grown men and no rookies.

[Agron]

Oh no I hope he is not made to do simulator work which might cause him to vomit all over himself in a humiliating manner. That would be terrible.That should be read as if spoken in monotone shouldn't it? :lol

My guess is that his unwillingness or inability to do simulator work will mostly disadvantage him rather than the team as a whole, as the car will be more suited to Alonso; also, although clearly a hard working driver that is good at set up would be ideal on the car development front, Kimi is extremely fast in race pace even in cars that don't suit him too much, so overall I think Ferrari will win from him in the team.
My impression is that he can't adapt a bad car to his liking the way Alonso or Massa may be able to through excellent setups, but he can still drive said bad car fast adapting to it, much like Alonso can do but Massa seems not so able to do, but who knows, I may be wrong.

[LivingHitokiri]

Oh no I hope he is not made to do simulator work which might cause him to vomit all over himself in a humiliating manner. That would be terrible.
Im pretty sure some quality vodka will fix his issue and the problem with simulator will be no more !
Joking aside,do we know if that somehow fixed with the new upgraded simulators , did he do any simulation testing with lotus ?


I don't think Fernando nor Kimi are worried about eachother. Both have been in F1 for many years now so they have known eachother for a long time already.
Both are a little older already, so I think they will work together in a serious way. Of course there will be differences, but these are two grown men and no rookies.
That's the thing, people and the media are making really big fuss about Kimi vs Fernando,mainly due to 2001-2006 era when they where the only ones to come of top and fighting head to head against Michael Shumacher.
I am pretty sure both of them do not care about such thing, but, for sure they want to beat eachother in the race mostly because they enjoy it rather than to humiliate one other or some other,afterall, they are getting paid a hefty sum for their job.

[Poltergeistes]

i will point out a few things here, that I "heard" from ferrari's team personel...again HEARD not read.

I wouldn't call it unnethical way of working, but definetly a downside.

Not unnethical then (the first time he was at ferrari) and most certainly not unnethical now. as if we hired him after having him working at maraello before and then cut off to make room for another driver, it was then obvious that kimi did not fufill the expectation.

After his arrival ferrari thought and wanted to build the developments of the car with him in mind, the problem was, he trully is a one man word, in 08 felipe said that, domenicali said that, dyer said that, in 09 it went as far as luca saying that it was kimi's twin who took over after the first half of the season. they weren't trying to diminish him, it was ( i dont know if its changed) the way he happened to be, you don't have to be someone who jokes around with everyone, talk and make friends, but in terms of the actual job, of offering the feedback they need to improve the car, this is key for the car to get better race after race.

in 08 felipe earned the right to be ANOTHER benchmark at ferrari, it really means that at the begin, ferrari was looking for kimi to set things his way, since he didn't, and felipe did, the car wasn't suitable to kimi as much as he wanted, the problem was, when you are a champion and the team looks to you to this job, you have to do it and he simply didn't, at the time, it didn't seem to matter to him that much.

Alot of people say kimi pointed out that the suspension ( or something else i can't recall) was not working the way he liked, the real question here is, how did that happen? if he had been working on making sure the developments that reaches his car are according to his preferences, no team is going to go like "ok if our champion wants this particular thing to be this way, then we will go the other), so if the car started to suit felipe better, it only happened because someone was willing to be the last man standing, in this context, the driver who will communicate things and work the hardest, this in itself is another race, in which the driver must persevere

i think our major problem with kimi would likely emerge if ferrari doesn't have a good car, he is a great driver, and he will do the best with it, but it's going to be the best that he can do with in a car with things he doesn't want. and that simply isn't the way to grow, to evolve into something better, and that is key to win championships.

I don't want to be disrespectful to kimi, i think this is just the way he works, and for people who say that this is an exageration saying he is an one word men, it really isn't.

Comparing to fernando for instance, who even when driving a minard, would go on to put on a paper everything he felt needed to be done to get better.

now imagine a scenario that to get this kind of information/input, the team would have to go and put on paper more like a yes or no option for as many question as the team could think, and then by yes or no from kimi they would work to solve the problems. i mean this is not efficient to the team as far as developing the car.

Yes Kimi might be the best guy out there to adapt himself according to the car, but this is not going to be what the developing department needs.

there is no doubt he is fast and can take the fight to fernando, but only so far, because then the car will start to suit fernando better ( kimi can stiil challenge fernando though)and by that time this happens and if it happens. he would have no bases to complain about it, because theres only so many questions the engineers can think of, and after all the driver is behind the wheel, so i'm sure there are problems to the driver and nobody else knows until he tells them.

kimi does seem mature now, but his come back with lotus he didn't have that pressure on his shoulder, and pressure is something big at ferrari at all times.

he doesn't let that stress and pressure get him, thats true, but i am not quite sure this is a good thing when you are on the side of ferrari.

[Senna4Ever]

Im pretty sure some quality vodka will fix his issue and the problem with simulator will be no more !


:haha:
I have heard that Ferrari is reworking their whole simulation program to motivate Kimi to join in more frequently.
It is said that the new program should look like "Super Mario Kart" where you can collect "magic mushrooms" and "bottles" all over the circuit ... and the more you collect the more free drinks afterwords it is promised ... Kimi offered to test it after back surgery is fine ...

[Ken]

:haha:
I have heard that Ferrari is reworking their whole simulation program to motivate Kimi to join in more frequently.
It is said that the new program should look like "Super Mario Kart" where you can collect "magic mushrooms" and "bottles" all over the circuit ... and the more you collect the more free drinks afterwords it is promised ... Kimi offered to test it after back surgery is fine ...

:rotfl:rotfl

[Lucky Dodo]

i will point out a few things here, that I "heard" from ferrari's team personel...again HEARD not read.

I wouldn't call it unnethical way of working, but definetly a downside.

Not unnethical then (the first time he was at ferrari) and most certainly not unnethical now. as if we hired him after having him working at maraello before and then cut off to make room for another driver, it was then obvious that kimi did not fufill the expectation.

After his arrival ferrari thought and wanted to build the developments of the car with him in mind, the problem was, he trully is a one man word, in 08 felipe said that, domenicali said that, dyer said that, in 09 it went as far as luca saying that it was kimi's twin who took over after the first half of the season. they weren't trying to diminish him, it was ( i dont know if its changed) the way he happened to be, you don't have to be someone who jokes around with everyone, talk and make friends, but in terms of the actual job, of offering the feedback they need to improve the car, this is key for the car to get better race after race.

in 08 felipe earned the right to be ANOTHER benchmark at ferrari, it really means that at the begin, ferrari was looking for kimi to set things his way, since he didn't, and felipe did, the car wasn't suitable to kimi as much as he wanted, the problem was, when you are a champion and the team looks to you to this job, you have to do it and he simply didn't, at the time, it didn't seem to matter to him that much.

Alot of people say kimi pointed out that the suspension ( or something else i can't recall) was not working the way he liked, the real question here is, how did that happen? if he had been working on making sure the developments that reaches his car are according to his preferences, no team is going to go like "ok if our champion wants this particular thing to be this way, then we will go the other), so if the car started to suit felipe better, it only happened because someone was willing to be the last man standing, in this context, the driver who will communicate things and work the hardest, this in itself is another race, in which the driver must persevere

i think our major problem with kimi would likely emerge if ferrari doesn't have a good car, he is a great driver, and he will do the best with it, but it's going to be the best that he can do with in a car with things he doesn't want. and that simply isn't the way to grow, to evolve into something better, and that is key to win championships.

I don't want to be disrespectful to kimi, i think this is just the way he works, and for people who say that this is an exageration saying he is an one word men, it really isn't.

Comparing to fernando for instance, who even when driving a minard, would go on to put on a paper everything he felt needed to be done to get better.

now imagine a scenario that to get this kind of information/input, the team would have to go and put on paper more like a yes or no option for as many question as the team could think, and then by yes or no from kimi they would work to solve the problems. i mean this is not efficient to the team as far as developing the car.

Yes Kimi might be the best guy out there to adapt himself according to the car, but this is not going to be what the developing department needs.

there is no doubt he is fast and can take the fight to fernando, but only so far, because then the car will start to suit fernando better ( kimi can stiil challenge fernando though)and by that time this happens and if it happens. he would have no bases to complain about it, because theres only so many questions the engineers can think of, and after all the driver is behind the wheel, so i'm sure there are problems to the driver and nobody else knows until he tells them.

kimi does seem mature now, but his come back with lotus he didn't have that pressure on his shoulder, and pressure is something big at ferrari at all times.

he doesn't let that stress and pressure get him, thats true, but i am not quite sure this is a good thing when you are on the side of ferrari.


Nope.

I don't care if you have 'heard' that Kimi doesn't give feedback on car devlopement, since that isn't true. Ask ANY engineer who has worked with him!
Those engineers actually say that he gives very precise descriptions on what the car needs as improvement. And that is all that engineers need from drivers!

As to Kimi not being verbal or social, right, that is true, when he is among strangers, ask anyone who KNOWS him and they actually describe him as fun and intelligent, and, surprise surprise, quite talkative. This is a national trait: Finns don't do small talk among strangers to same extent as some other nationalities do. I am not saying either is better than other, so I'd appreciate it, if you wouldn't either.

As to his lack of motivation, that is a myth created mainly by media, same way as Fernando's lack of motivation at the end of this year was.

[Kiwi Nick]

Let's rely on recent history. Two years ago Lotus was a dog. Last year they began to improve. They finished the season with the third, maybe even second best car on the grid. This could not have happened without good feedback from the drivers. If you want to attribute all of that to Grosjean...fine (that would make you either an idiot or a Kimi hater). But realistically, Kimi would appear to have played a big part in their development over the past two years.

[FrankAlfa]

@ Lucky Dodo,

+1 You are correct! I tire from all of these long winded "Stories" I read from people not actiually knowing what goes on between Driver and Engineer. These are all very well paid people working for these teams and the Goal is to Win! Kimi will perform just fine.

[F2008]

Oh no I hope he is not made to do simulator work which might cause him to vomit all over himself in a humiliating manner. That would be terrible.

Instead they should place him before the drawing board. After reading about his car development skills I'm sure he would outsmart Newey. Or is it Vettel?

[Muhammad Ansib]

the simulator sickness is a petty issue because I think Marc Gene and Pedro are working full time and I really really hope and pray that Ferrari of 2014 is the fastest car of all, most reliable! And Redbull will suffer more than all cuz with the Exhaust blowing thankfully gone Vettel cant really use the car like he wants to eg I explicitly remember Australia 2012 after a few laps while following Michael in the race on turn 1 Vettel tried to drive the car like 2011 version and the car just locked up the rears and he went wide and Martin Brundle pointed out "with the EBD gone or minimised Vettel's driving style is suffering and the back-end said, You gotta be kidding me!" Hope for 2014..FORZA

[Lucky Dodo]

Instead they should place him before the drawing board. After reading about his car development skills I'm sure he would outsmart Newey. Or is it Vettel?

Someone said that Kimi brings 0.2 seconds to team and is fabulous car developer? Nice, Ferrari has no troubles then, since they have two of a kind drivers...

[Poltergeistes]

Nope.

I don't care if you have 'heard' that Kimi doesn't give feedback on car devlopement, since that isn't true. Ask ANY engineer who has worked with him!
Those engineers actually say that he gives very precise descriptions on what the car needs as improvement. And that is all that engineers need from drivers!

As to Kimi not being verbal or social, right, that is true, when he is among strangers, ask anyone who KNOWS him and they actually describe him as fun and intelligent, and, surprise surprise, quite talkative. This is a national trait: Finns don't do small talk among strangers to same extent as some other nationalities do. I am not saying either is better than other, so I'd appreciate it, if you wouldn't either.

As to his lack of motivation, that is a myth created mainly by media, same way as Fernando's lack of motivation at the end of this year was.


i wa just stating what people inside ferrari has said about kimi's way of work when he came to ferrari, felipe, chris dyer, domenicali and luca di montezemolo, if these poeple doesn't count to you, they do to me, since they work at ferrari and worked with kimi.

he was let go for a reason in the first place, so for you to say "its just not true" is simply silly. if kimi has such reputation is because the people who worked directly with him pointed it out.

like i said maybe he changed, and maybe we will give him a car that will be as strong as the top contender, then he will shine i suppose, which is great for us.

kimi has never been keen on details, i dont understand why people need to paint him in a way in which he is not, and everyone knows it, kimi would probably be the first one to say so, he is not the type who will stay later for after race meetings.

[Petronius]

i wa just stating what people inside ferrari has said about kimi's way of work when he came to ferrari, felipe, chris dyer, domenicali and luca di montezemolo, if these poeple doesn't count to you, they do to me, since they work at ferrari and worked with kimi.

he was let go for a reason in the first place, so for you to say "its just not true" is simply silly. if kimi has such reputation is because the people who worked directly with him pointed it out.

like i said maybe he changed, and maybe we will give him a car that will be as strong as the top contender, then he will shine i suppose, which is great for us.

kimi has never been keen on details, i dont understand why people need to paint him in a way in which he is not, and everyone knows it, kimi would probably be the first one to say so, he is not the type who will stay later for after race meetings.

I understand people with burning passion. Sometimes own preferences are generalized to be valid facts. Gossips has OTH an anatomy to live a life off their own. Objective fact back in 2009 was, Kimi was let go and Fernando taken in. This we know. Rest is pure speculation and imagination off individual thinking vs wishes.

This time around, Kimi pointed out signing an agreement (before it was released to be with Ferrari) is challenging, because all the details is what matters. Is that a statement from a person that doesn't care? I happen to know the biggest passion in the world off Kimi is racing...and racing Ferrari is the ultimate prize for any true racer. How on earth can someone believe that he wouldn't burn for every little detail that counts for him to win. We are now talking about the greatest team of all times in F1 with two of the best drivers available. Both are hungry to achieve common, but also, individual ultimate prize. That doesn't come for free. I don't think Fernando or Kimi have any daydreams on that point. Both are very well aware of what it takes.

Ferrari is also the best lead team by far. All long term decisions have been considered from quite many and different angles. Strategy and tactics are planned in detail and put in action precise like swiss clock work. Why would a piece off art like that include elements off bad quality. As Mr LdM recently stated, all the ingredients for success are now gathered and I really hope and believe he is once again on spot.

[Alonso14]

Let's rely on recent history. Two years ago Lotus was a dog. Last year they began to improve. They finished the season with the third, maybe even second best car on the grid. This could not have happened without good feedback from the drivers. If you want to attribute all of that to Grosjean...fine (that would make you either an idiot or a Kimi hater). But realistically, Kimi would appear to have played a big part in their development over the past two years.

No, I'll attribute the majority of this success to James Allison (and the people who succeeded him after he left).

[brembo man]

I believe the only reputation that counts with regards to our 2014 replacement driver is that he's a proven champion driver. A winner for sure. Behind the wheel is all that matters and he's for real! We didn't hire him as a tech. designer or a spokesperson. Alonso Kimi and throw in a great car, were 2014 champions for sure!!

[Lucky Dodo]

i wa just stating what people inside ferrari has said about kimi's way of work when he came to ferrari, felipe, chris dyer, domenicali and luca di montezemolo, if these poeple doesn't count to you, they do to me, since they work at ferrari and worked with kimi.

he was let go for a reason in the first place, so for you to say "its just not true" is simply silly. if kimi has such reputation is because the people who worked directly with him pointed it out.

like i said maybe he changed, and maybe we will give him a car that will be as strong as the top contender, then he will shine i suppose, which is great for us.

kimi has never been keen on details, i dont understand why people need to paint him in a way in which he is not, and everyone knows it, kimi would probably be the first one to say so, he is not the type who will stay later for after race meetings.


You didn't read my reply then. As I never disputed what the individuals you have HEARD said.
I merely told that people who REALLY know, engineers, have never said that Kimi can't help
developing car. Quite contrary!

We understand each other now?

[Nero Horse]

Anyone know what's Kimi up to these days? How's his back?

[Lucky Dodo]

I would say that no news is good news and leave it at that.

[Suzie]

Yes let's not think about Kimi until it is absolutely necessary.





:-D

[Rob]

Yes let's not think about Kimi until it is absolutely necessary.





:-D

er who?


:xmastongue:

[AfterLife]

IMO this article is very misleading. There is no source for it. I don't take this article serious.

[wisepie]

er who?


:xmastongue:

Rob and Suzie, not like you two to be quite so dismissive of a future Ferrari driver, but I undertsand fully where you're coming from. Just hope it won't all kick off with a vengeance when the Kimibots are let loose in the New Year.:-P

[Suzie]

I'm only messing ;-)

[Rob]

I'm only messing ;-)

only joking too :xmastongue:

[wisepie]

only joking too :xmastongue:

I know you're both too true tifosi to have been serious! Kimi's time will come, but he won't replace a certain other in our hearts.:xmaswink:

[Winter]

I think Alonso is right to worry about Kimi coming back, but his work ethics should be least of his worries :xmascool:

[Suzie]

I doubt Alonso is worried at all.

[AfterLife]

I think Alonso is right to worry about Kimi coming back, but his work ethics should be least of his worries :xmascool:

I don't think these statements from Alonso about Kimi really exist.

[Hermann]

I think Alonso is right to worry about Kimi coming back, but his work ethics should be least of his worries :xmascool:

This is all in your head. Don't listen to the voices!

[Winter]

.