FIA to guard against “extreme engines” in 2014

[AfterLife]

If the rumor was true :roll

I make this thread for those who have lost their hopes (Hope=0%) after hearing that Ferrari have 75 BHP lesser than Mercedes. http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/09/16/fia-to-guard-against-extreme-engines-in-2014/

SO IMO FIA will investigate the situation and if it was necessary FIA will give Renault or Ferrari the extra time to catch up so as usual we will see :-)

[Hornet]

It's unfortunate that engine doesn't take the role it deserve in this autoracing we call F1. Somehow it's ok to have extreme aerodynamics like the blown diffuser concept that have zero use outside of open wheel cars, but heaven forbid if we allow teams to push engine design.

[Jacquesvw]

If the rumor was true :roll

I make this thread for those who have lost their hopes (Hope=0%) after hearing that Ferrari have 75 BHP lesser than Mercedes. http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/09/16/fia-to-guard-against-extreme-engines-in-2014/

SO IMO FIA will investigate the situation and if it was necessary FIA will give Renault or Ferrari the extra time to catch up so as usual we will see :-)

That article was published on September 16, 2013, so what will they know? LOL

[Greig]

Luca has spent years wanting engines to be the main power in F1, if we have a weaker engine then words fail me.

[AfterLife]

That article was published on September 16, 2013, so what will they know? LOL

It just shows how FIA have predicted these kind of engine related cases and are ready to encounter these kind of problems.

[AfterLife]

according to James Allen 75 BHP advantage means 7 tenths of a second per lap advantage. James Allen himself has said that he has not heard 75 BHP Mercedes advantage compare to Ferrari, but he will check it out to see if it is true or not.

[GrndLkNatv]

There is no way one engine manufacturer is 75bph over the others with engines this small and restricted fuel. This number is just complete B.S. I don't know why people are wasting their time with this issue, it's probability is near 0.

[Rob]

There is no way one engine manufacturer is 75bph over the others with engines this small and restricted fuel. This number is just complete B.S. I don't know why people are wasting their time with this issue, it's probability is near 0.

:thumb

[Jacquesvw]

There is no way one engine manufacturer is 75bph over the others with engines this small and restricted fuel. This number is just complete B.S. I don't know why people are wasting their time with this issue, it's probability is near 0.

Yes, you're right. Nobody outside of the factory will even know the real engine power anyway. I'm sure most in the factory doesn't even know, probably not even client teams.

[Hornet]

There is no way one engine manufacturer is 75bph over the others with engines this small and restricted fuel. This number is just complete B.S. I don't know why people are wasting their time with this issue, it's probability is near 0.

Does that means the only difference between the engines is reliability?

This isn't as exciting as I thought it'd be. But I guess that has to be the way if they are going to homologate the engine.

Back to aero racing soon :lou

[Jacquesvw]

Does that means the only difference between the engines is reliability?

This isn't as exciting as I thought it'd be. But I guess that has to be the way if they are going to homologate the engine.

Back to aero racing soon :lou

Its more about reliability and efficiency with the v6 formula. Merc may have 500hp more than everyone else, but unless they can extract that from 100kg of fuel per race it all will be useless.

The more horse power you get from 100kg fuel the better your engine will be. For all we know the ferrari is the weakest of all engines on raw power, but it might be the most efficient. Raw power will help you in qualifying, but during the race you will suffer if your engine is not efficient.

This is by far the most exciting formula to date in my opinion.

[peta_w]

Luca has spent years wanting engines to be the main power in F1, if we have a weaker engine then words fail me.

Don't put yourself with the nutbag chicken little group running around making to much noise now
The sky is falling
Mercades has 75Hp more
The sky is falling
Mercades world is perfect
The sky is falling

You should know better

[Greig]

Don't put yourself with the nutbag chicken little group running around making to much noise now
The sky is falling
Mercades has 75Hp more
The sky is falling
Mercades world is perfect
The sky is falling

You should know better

Which is why I said IF, do try and read before trying to be petty and insulting.

[peta_w]

Does that means the only difference between the engines is reliability?

This isn't as exciting as I thought it'd be. But I guess that has to be the way if they are going to homologate the engine.

Back to aero racing soon :lou

Spot on my friend. Just like the team has been stressing, it is all about reliability because homologation will even the engines out soon enough. The real area where differences can be extracted are aeros, tire management and fuel efficiency. I can't wait for Mercades to cross the line first only to be told they exceeded their fuel limit and are disqualified. Most likely culprit Lewis. Most likely radio transmission after that "I can't drive any more efficiently"

[peta_w]

Don't put yourself with the nutbag chicken little group running around making to much noise now
The sky is falling
Mercades has 75Hp more
The sky is falling
Mercades world is perfect
The sky is falling

You should know better

Don't get your nickers in a not. You are still the big fish in this tiny tank :)

[Greig]

Don't get your nickers in a not. You are still the big fish in this tiny tank :)

Seems like you are taking to yourself now.

[peta_w]

Seems like you are taking to yourself now.

Im more a stallion than a fish

[Greig]

I can't wait for Mercades to cross the line first only to be told they exceeded their fuel limit and are disqualified. Most likely culprit Lewis. Most likely radio transmission after that "I can't drive any more efficiently"

You will be waiting a long time then as no team is going to run around with extra fuel.

[peta_w]

You will be waiting a long time then as no team is going to run around with extra fuel.

All teams will start every race with more than 100Kgs of fuel. :roll

[Cemz85]

Red bull saying they are 165 ho down on merc. And 30 kph on the straights..

[Ste]

Crisis-struck world champions, Red Bull are hoping to merely survive the fast approaching Australian Grand Prix, the first race of the 2014 F1 World Championship season.

The reigning world champion team looked to have taken a step forward as the final pre-season test began on Thursday in Bahrain.

At the wheel of the troubled Renault-powered RB10, Daniel Ricciardo had a promising morning – until the latest technical problems left him stranded in the garage for most of the rest of the day.

Afterwards, the Australian was his usual upbeat self, ”From the outside, it looks like we are not doing many laps and that the times are not
“But as a team we are confident that we will be with the frontrunners,” Ricciardo insisted.

“It is difficult to really predict what will happen, but we can say that we will not dominate in Melbourne as we did at the end of last season.”

Red Bull’s always-blunt Marko, however, sounded a less positive note, he told Sport Bild, “We have to somehow survive Melbourne.”

He said Renault’s troubled ‘power unit’ means that Red Bull is often missing 165 horse power to the leading Mercedes, “which is about 30km/h on the straights!

“That’s why we have sent a taskforce to France,” revealed Marko, referring to Renault’s Viry headquarters. ”Our people have just helped Renault write a new software programme.”

Renault says that it has made real progress, which is timely given the FIA’s looming engine development ‘freeze’ deadline of Friday.

“Yes, some problems we are yet to understand,” the French company’s Remi Taffin acknowledged in a recent interview.

“But over the past six years, approximately 95 per cent of the parts in the V8 engine were refined compared to the first version,” he said.

“We have made a big step forward between the first test and now with the new power unit. Yes we’re a little behind schedule, we still have certain problems, but they are gradually being resolved,” Taffin added. (GMM)

[Rishu]

30 km/hr is huge. We are talking about losing 1.3 seconds only on a straight of about 1.2 kms

[Ste]

AMuS reporting that Renault has asked for an extension of today's power unit homologation deadline

[GrndLkNatv]

How do they know how much horsepower Merc has? 160bhp is about the same as the ERS unit.. I do know that Renault claimed they had about 600bhp in their V6 from race car engineering magazine.. That would mean the Merc has 760 bhp on 100kg restricted fuel and on the same 5 bar of boost which is physically impossible... If Merc were running theirs without the restriction in place, sure that makes some sense then they would be generating power all the way to the 15k rpm redline whereas all the others who are running restriction cannot get more power past 13k rpm, as the energy stored in the fuel for internal combustion just won't allow for it.. I would say Renault are full of crap.. I can see Merc having between 625 and 650bhp with restricted fuel, same as the Honda 1.6 liter Turbo engines with the same type of restriction, but getting 760bhp out of a 1.6 liter V6 limited to 100kg fuel, 5 bar of boost and 15k rpm is not possible. Last year the 2.4 liter V8 engines were making about 725 to 750bhp at 18000rpm and no fuel restrictions..

[mirafiori]

How do they know how much horsepower Merc has? 160bhp is about the same as the ERS unit.. I do know that Renault claimed they had about 600bhp in their V6 from race car engineering magazine.. That would mean the Merc has 760 bhp on 100kg restricted fuel and on the same 5 bar of boost which is physically impossible... If Merc were running theirs without the restriction in place, sure that makes some sense then they would be generating power all the way to the 15k rpm redline whereas all the others who are running restriction cannot get more power past 13k rpm, as the energy stored in the fuel for internal combustion just won't allow for it.. I would say Renault are full of crap.. I can see Merc having between 625 and 650bhp with restricted fuel, same as the Honda 1.6 liter Turbo engines with the same type of restriction, but getting 760bhp out of a 1.6 liter V6 limited to 100kg fuel, 5 bar of boost and 15k rpm is not possible. Last year the 2.4 liter V8 engines were making about 725 to 750bhp at 18000rpm and no fuel restrictions..

For me you make a lot of sense you should post on the forum more often. I remember a few months ago you posted some information about the Ferrari engine, where you said you had some information regarding the new engine and Ferrari had no worries regarding reliability and you said it will be among the best, you also mentioned cool developments with the braking energy and engine energy how right you are sir, once again thank you. Forza Ferrari.:thumb

[raylinds]

How do they know how much horsepower Merc has? 160bhp is about the same as the ERS unit.. I do know that Renault claimed they had about 600bhp in their V6 from race car engineering magazine.. That would mean the Merc has 760 bhp on 100kg restricted fuel and on the same 5 bar of boost which is physically impossible... If Merc were running theirs without the restriction in place, sure that makes some sense then they would be generating power all the way to the 15k rpm redline whereas all the others who are running restriction cannot get more power past 13k rpm, as the energy stored in the fuel for internal combustion just won't allow for it.. I would say Renault are full of crap.. I can see Merc having between 625 and 650bhp with restricted fuel, same as the Honda 1.6 liter Turbo engines with the same type of restriction, but getting 760bhp out of a 1.6 liter V6 limited to 100kg fuel, 5 bar of boost and 15k rpm is not possible. Last year the 2.4 liter V8 engines were making about 725 to 750bhp at 18000rpm and no fuel restrictions..

What they might be saying is that, because of overheating issues, they need to dial back the engine, so it is only producing 435 bhp and the Merc has 600 bhp. But even that seems unlikely.

[RedPassion]

There is no way they know the Output of Mercedes or Ferrari engines,as usually is Lobbying,exactly like in 2006 .They are trying as always to make themselves weaker as they are,and if the Problem of the missing pace is just overheating,then just cut a bigger hole in the bodywork,there is nothing other dudes can do,this is not a charity Gala dinner,this is F1,if you are not at it ist your own fault.

[Greig]

All teams will start every race with more than 100Kgs of fuel. :roll

Why will they?

[ManFromMilan]

Why will they?




Yeah i agree.

After the tests they will know how to finish a race with 100kg of fuel. So then they will try and use less if they could, instead of more.(more would be against the regulations)

[abbottcostello]

Only one reason, the balance remaining (1l) that is required for testing by FIA, anything more is just a weight penalty & I'm not sure if it's even allowed?

[mkable1370]

Only one reason, the balance remaining (1l) that is required for testing by FIA, anything more is just a weight penalty & I'm not sure if it's even allowed?

You can and must carry more. The cars need to have enough fuel onboard to account for the pre-race parade lap and idling on the line waiting for the start, plus have enough to account for any safety car etc, plus must still have fuel left over to provide the mandatory post-race sample to the FIA. The rule is that the car can't consume more than the 100kg of fuel during the race distance. But they will have to carry some amount more.

[Greig]

Safety car would save fuel, sure they will run a little more for the FIA sample but nothing major. Carrying more fuel than needed is just a weight penalty.

[peta_w]

Safety car would save fuel, sure they will run a little more for the FIA sample but nothing major. Carrying more fuel than needed is just a weight penalty.

When cars are finally sent out they will be fueled with 100Kg for race plus out, formation, warm-up and in lap plus fuel for sample and min possible for margin of error. A lot more than 100Kg. Think - why would flow regulator and measurement be needed if they could just give 100Kg to put in the car for race. When race starts measuring by FIA ECU starts and continues till end of race.

Therefore, as I mentioned, there is the distinct possibility, given how drivers have already said how important and difficult it is to manage fuel, that a driver will be told, after finishing the race, that he has consumed more than 100Kg for the actual race and is therefore disqualified.

[hudson77]

When cars are finally sent out they will be fueled with 100Kg for race plus out, formation, warm-up and in lap plus fuel for sample and min possible for margin of error. A lot more than 100Kg. Think - why would flow regulator and measurement be needed if they could just give 100Kg to put in the car for race. When race starts measuring by FIA ECU starts and continues till end of race.

Therefore, as I mentioned, there is the distinct possibility, given how drivers have already said how important and difficult it is to manage fuel, that a driver will be told, after finishing the race, that he has consumed more than 100Kg for the actual race and is therefore disqualified.

Never going to happen, however distinct a possibility. The driver will be conserving fuel as and when required to ensure he finishes the race. whatever the respective finishing position. IMHO

[Greig]

When cars are finally sent out they will be fueled with 100Kg for race plus out, formation, warm-up and in lap plus fuel for sample and min possible for margin of error. A lot more than 100Kg. Think - why would flow regulator and measurement be needed if they could just give 100Kg to put in the car for race. When race starts measuring by FIA ECU starts and continues till end of race.

Therefore, as I mentioned, there is the distinct possibility, given how drivers have already said how important and difficult it is to manage fuel, that a driver will be told, after finishing the race, that he has consumed more than 100Kg for the actual race and is therefore disqualified.

Doubt it, as the teams will know how much fuel they are using and will manage it as they have been doing for many years now, they will not run around with excess fuel.

[Kyss4k]

Luca has spent years wanting engines to be the main power in F1, if we have a weaker engine then words fail me.

I feared of this since the new engines were announced. :pray

[peta_w]

Doubt it, as the teams will know how much fuel they are using and will manage it as they have been doing for many years now, they will not run around with excess fuel.

The teams know, but clearly you didn't. Haha

[Greig]

The teams know, but clearly you didn't. Haha

It's ok to admit you got it wrong and move on.

[Forzafonz]

Well, to stop all discussions about engines' horse power i would like to ask some questions. Can anybody say me how many "horses" did Ferrari's V8 engine have?How many "horses" did Reno's V8 engine have?How many "horses" did Mersedes's V8 engine have? i would suggest that nobody knows these numbers, so if nobody ( including "experts") does not know how many h.p. V8 engines had after such many years of using it , how these experts can estimate power of new engines? I cannot understand..

[peta_w]

It's ok to admit you got it wrong and move on.

I appreciate you admitting you got it wrong, somewhat surprised to be honest, but appreciated.

[Suzie]

Why so aggro, peta_w?

[ManFromMilan]

The teams know, but clearly you didn't. Haha





You are becoming a pain in the butt if you continue to discount logic and the said rules for this year with regards to the fuel limit.

[peta_w]

Why so aggro, peta_w?

Maybe you missed my post just before yours. I congratulated the boy for admitting and wanting to move on. I'm pretty direct, some prefer to pussyfoot around. That's not for me.

[peta_w]

You are becoming a pain in the butt if you continue to discount logic and the said rules for this year with regards to the fuel limit.

So I'm wrong saying teams will fuel their cars with more than 100Kgs when they head out to start the race? So why don't you enlighten me as where I'm wrong with that. This should be interesting.

[Greig]

So I'm wrong saying teams will fuel their cars with more than 100Kgs when they head out to start the race? So why don't you enlighten me as where I'm wrong with that. This should be interesting.

Teams will run with as little fuel as possible, they will be saving fuel through the race as they did in the past few years. If you think that is wrong then you can off course tell us how much kgs the teams will run with.

[ManFromMilan]

So I'm wrong saying teams will fuel their cars with more than 100Kgs when they head out to start the race? So why don't you enlighten me as where I'm wrong with that. This should be interesting.




No that is your opinion and that is fine, but going on about it after the fact that the 100kg fuel for a race is the maximum allowable mass for a race is redundant.

Now whether there would be 1kg more fuel or maybe 1.5kg more fuel for the lap to the grid is not your point you was trying to convince the rest of the forum.

No team will start a race with 120kg of fuel and that is the point.

In my opinion of course.

[GrndLkNatv]

Well, to stop all discussions about engines' horse power i would like to ask some questions. Can anybody say me how many "horses" did Ferrari's V8 engine have?How many "horses" did Reno's V8 engine have?How many "horses" did Mersedes's V8 engine have? i would suggest that nobody knows these numbers, so if nobody ( including "experts") does not know how many h.p. V8 engines had after such many years of using it , how these experts can estimate power of new engines? I cannot understand..

Only Luca Marmorini and Company know the exact numbers on the Ferrari V6, and I do promise you that it is not down on horsepower nor will you be upset by it's reliability. When Luca was at Toyota I don't think they ever had an engine failure and since he has been back at Ferrari, he's been 100% as well.

Luca did tell me a funny story last Sept. He and Paolo Martinelli built the 049 engine right before he left for Toyota F1 and then he had to watch the entire season
as his own engine won every race.. :-)

[Nero Horse]

Only Luca Marmorini and Company know the exact numbers on the Ferrari V6, and I do promise you that it is not down on horsepower nor will you be upset by it's reliability.

That is really great to hear! :thumb

It's nice to get some inside info. Keep those knowledgeable comments coming. :-)

[Liscia]

All the more encouraging to hear although I wasn't really worried since this
isn't our team's first turbocharged F1 propulsore! Lighter rare earth magnets
for our electric motor windings too maybe?

[peta_w]

No that is your opinion and that is fine, but going on about it after the fact that the 100kg fuel for a race is the maximum allowable mass for a race is redundant.

Now whether there would be 1kg more fuel or maybe 1.5kg more fuel for the lap to the grid is not your point you was trying to convince the rest of the forum.

No team will start a race with 120kg of fuel and that is the point.

In my opinion of course.


I suggest you go back, read what I wrote, then apologise to me for lying about what I said.

I said teams will go out with more than 100Kgs of fuel - period. That is a fact, not an opinion. Teams will have more than 100Kgs of fuel on-board when they are sent out for a race.

Now, here's my "opinion" on your suggestion that it will be 1 to 1.5Kgs more. I think that is ridiculous. They would not be able to complete the formation lap and the race and still have fuel for the compulsory fuel sample. My best guess would be, for a team that doesn't want to avail of any warm-up laps for their drivers before they hit the grid then they will need to cover the out lap, formation lap, in lap plus the fuel sample plus some fuel for margin of error. Also there is no longer force majeure (meaning cars must get the park after finishing). I can't see all that being significantly less than 5Kgs to add to the 100Kgs for the race. It will vary from track to track. Given all that my "opinion" would be that teams will have fuel tanks with somewhere above 105Kgs up to 110Kgs capacity - especially if a team needs the opportunity to run a couple of out laps to warm up or check something before the race.

[peta_w]

So I'm wrong saying teams will fuel their cars with more than 100Kgs when they head out to start the race? So why don't you enlighten me as where I'm wrong with that. This should be interesting.
Teams will run with as little fuel as possible, they will be saving fuel through the race as they did in the past few years. If you think that is wrong then you can off course tell us how much kgs the teams will run with.

I have not discussed teams saving fuel. Don't try and deflect or mislead.

Previously I said "All teams will start every race with more than 100Kgs of fuel"
You then asked "Why will they?"

I answered your question and provided the proof.

Now, if you want to go on believing that teams will send their cars out with exactly 100Kgs of fuel or less then you go right ahead and continue believing that. If you want to thank me for the explanation as to why teams will have more than 100Kgs on board then that would be fine also. Just don't misquote or misrepresent me again.

[Greig]

I have not discussed teams saving fuel. Don't try and deflect or mislead.

Previously I said "All teams will start every race with more than 100Kgs of fuel"
You then asked "Why will they?"

I answered your question and provided the proof.

Now, if you want to go on believing that teams will send their cars out with exactly 100Kgs of fuel or less then you go right ahead and continue believing that. If you want to thank me for the explanation as to why teams will have more than 100Kgs on board then that would be fine also. Just don't misquote or misrepresent me again.

You do understand in previous years teams started races with not enough fuel to run the race at full pace and had to save fuel right?

You said you will see teams being DQ for using too much fuel, you were told that was not going to happen and now you are trying to worm out of it instead of admitting you made a mistake. You did not provide any proof either unless I missed it? The FIA sample is a very small amount that teams can get even if the car runs out of fuel as we have seen in the past, and off course they can stop the car right after the finish line.

[ManFromMilan]

I suggest you go back, read what I wrote, then apologise to me for lying about what I said.

I said teams will go out with more than 100Kgs of fuel - period. That is a fact, not an opinion. Teams will have more than 100Kgs of fuel on-board when they are sent out for a race.

Now, here's my "opinion" on your suggestion that it will be 1 to 1.5Kgs more. I think that is ridiculous. They would not be able to complete the formation lap and the race and still have fuel for the compulsory fuel sample. My best guess would be, for a team that doesn't want to avail of any warm-up laps for their drivers before they hit the grid then they will need to cover the out lap, formation lap, in lap plus the fuel sample plus some fuel for margin of error. Also there is no longer force majeure (meaning cars must get the park after finishing). I can't see all that being significantly less than 5Kgs to add to the 100Kgs for the race. It will vary from track to track. Given all that my "opinion" would be that teams will have fuel tanks with somewhere above 105Kgs up to 110Kgs capacity - especially if a team needs the opportunity to run a couple of out laps to warm up or check something before the race.




Sorry but i still read your post as teams racing with more than the 100kg allowable mass to actually finish the race.

So yeah, sorry you did not clearly state your point from the beginning and very sorry that you felt the need to get your panties in a bunch and hissy fit a clear point from others that the 100kg fuel limit was not negotiable. If you had cleared up the point that the lap to the grid and the fuel sample was what you had meant as the more than just the 100kg of fuel in the tank then you would be entitled to an apology.

So whether you backtracked on your original point now to save face or actually had meant this from the beginning we probably will never know.


I have not discussed teams saving fuel. Don't try and deflect or mislead.

Previously I said "All teams will start every race with more than 100Kgs of fuel"
You then asked "Why will they?"

I answered your question and provided the proof.

Now, if you want to go on believing that teams will send their cars out with exactly 100Kgs of fuel or less then you go right ahead and continue believing that. If you want to thank me for the explanation as to why teams will have more than 100Kgs on board then that would be fine also. Just don't misquote or misrepresent me again.




Now if you had read the whole post you would have seen that Greig knows and acknowledges the sample element of the fuel for a race and brings us right back to you not clearly stating your point but being happy to try and bait him.

Now with this all done and dusted does anybody know the FIA's formula and the rule regarding the allowable fuel in the tank for the race? Is it a set amount or can teams use their own digression in how much they put in the tank? Is the fuel sample part of the 100kg for the race or is it extra?

[peta_w]

Sorry but i still read your post as teams racing with more than the 100kg allowable mass to actually finish the race.
If you don't understand English then say so. Again, so even you can understand, I said "teams will start every race with more than 100Kgs of fuel". There is no need for me to backtrack from this statement, it is what I meant and it is a fact. If you weren't is such a hurry to suck up to a mod here you might not have made your mistake and you might have even got to be man enough to actually apologize.



Now with this all done and dusted does anybody know the FIA's formula and the rule regarding the allowable fuel in the tank for the race? Is it a set amount or can teams use their own digression in how much they put in the tank? Is the fuel sample part of the 100kg for the race or is it extra?

Team can put 150Kg of fuel in their cars if they want, there is no rule or limit on the amount of fuel a team can put in the car. The limitation is they can only use 100Kg from lights out to when they cross the finish line. They also cannot add fuel after they send the car out to grid up for formation lap. So again, perhaps even so you can understand, teams, at a bare minimum have to put in fuel for their out lap, formation lap, the race itself, in lap after the race, fuel sample and some fuel for a margin of error. As I already stated that will be about the 100Kg for the race plus ~5Kg for the other bits I mentioned.

[peta_w]

You know what, before you spout off, why don't you at least check some of what you post. Would save you making so many mistakes.


You do understand in previous years teams started races with not enough fuel to run the race at full pace and had to save fuel right?
What does that have to do with what I said which I remind you was "All teams will start every race with more than 100Kgs of fuel"
Stop misrepresenting me.


You said you will see teams being DQ for using too much fuel
Nice outright lie Greig. I said I was hoping for that to happen to Mercedes and Lewis. Lets see if you are man enough to admit this was a complete, outright lie or if you will continue your worming.



...you were told that was not going to happen
Rest assured I will bring this back if a car does exceed the 100Kg for the race and gets disqualified. It is possible.



You did not provide any proof either unless I missed it? The FIA sample is a very small amount that teams can get even if the car runs out of fuel as we have seen in the past, and off course they can stop the car right after the finish line.
If you weren't so intent of fighting and actually read and checked stuff you might have noticed that teams will fuel the cars they send out on race day with the following amounts of fuel. The 100Kgs to cover from when the 5 green lights go out until they cross the finish line PLUS the out lap (when they leave the pit and drive around the circuit to get to the grid), the formation/warmup lap (you know, the one they do to warm up tires & brakes etc) the in lap (the lap they have to go around after the cross the finish line) and then they also need, on top of that, fuel for the compulsory sample and lastly thet will add some for a margin of error. About 100+5Kgs. Period. People who want to verify that I am exactly right on this can go to f1technical.net are read about it there in the engine thread.

Lastly, proving your staggering ability to keep getting things wrong, drivers cannot stop as soon as they cross the line this year after the race as force majeure has been removed from the rules for this year - drivers must have fuel to get back. I had already posted that as well but clearly you don't read you just make up stuff that suits you.

[Greig]

Clearly you are not sure why you are ranting but you will rant anyway, no team will use more than 100kg of fuel in a race, because no team will have a fuel tank that can carry more fuel than they need, it really is that simple.

[Zytes]

It seems to me that the actual amount of fuel the cars start the race with is a moot point, as all that matters to the FIA is that they use no more than 100Kg of fuel in the race, and that they have 1 litre left for testing at the end of the race. Where the main concern of the teams is to make sure, as best they can, to put no more fuel in the tank than they think will get them to the finish, with no more than their required 1 litre testing amount left over. The new homolgated fuel sensors ( http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news/2014-f1-fuel-flow-meter-finally-homologated/ ) give the race officials real time data/tracking of how much fuel the cars are going through during the race, so there is no more guessing.


Source: http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2014/1/15408.html

"Last year, while there was no race fuel limit or fuel flow limit, cars used in the region of 160kg of fuel per race with a fuel flow limit of 170kg per hour. From 2014 things are radically different: each car has a 100kg fuel limit per race (around one third less than before) whilst fuel flow is limited to 100kg per hour. That means that while the cars will likely be run at the limit of fuel flow during much of practice and qualifying, it will have to be a different story during races when cars are running for well over an hour.....Therefore the reliability of each car’s fuel sensor is arguably now as important as the reliability of their power unit."

As for there being no more "force majeure" for cars that do not make it back to the pits, the FIA now has the option of going to the car and extracting the required 1 litre of fuel for testing, but they can/will also remove, if it is there, the amount of fuel it would have taken for the car to return to the pits. If there is not enough, then penalty most likely follows.

[Nand0Nand0]

Thanks Zytes, I wish I had read your post yesterday.
I read so much of the suggested F1technical engine thread, my head is still spinning. They must be very clever people writing there.
So it seems that what you say was right Peta, but do you always have to be so angry? Peace man :-)