Why Ferrari hasn't had best car from start since 2008 and...........

[Majki2111]

Why Ferrari hasn't had best car from start since 2008 and why Ferrari isn't/wasn't capable of delivering a car better than it's rivals for Alonso to win WDC?
They have money, they have people. Tifosi always saying Ferrari is F1. F1 needs Ferrai, but there are not resault. RBR and Mercedes just doing a better job. Why is that?
All cars since 2009 were worse than RBR, BrawnGP, Mercedes (in past 2,5 years (begining of 2012 Mercedes was better than Ferrari)).

[hogo]

At first I thought RedBull/Merc were cheating but I don't know anymore. Maybe we are just bad.

[Kristof_F40]

I agree with you, but it's not black and white.

2009 whas a drastic rule chance, we, like McLaren kept developing 2008 because of title, so it's understandable. We also had a lot of bad luck and "lost" Felipe in 2009. 2010, the car wasn't that bad, and indeed RBR was faster in qualy but we had good race pace. RBR had more reliability problems. But indeed it wasn't a dominant car but it wasn't bad either. From 2011 it's more the fact that e couldn't get blown diffuser working etc. this was a big advantage of RBR. I think the F138 was actually a very good car, relativly fast in qualy, and very fast in the race, we had bad luck in begin of season, but we lost because of tyre change. From that point our race pace wasn't that good anymore and RBRs and Mercs was better..

What you're saying about competitors, yes RBR has been very strong, propably because of Adrian Newey, but where were they pre 2009? Where was Merc pre 2013? We is McLaren last 2 seasons? Yes, we need to improve, I agree, but there is more to it

[Corey]

Mind you the F2008 WAS the best car on the grid that season, it's just a horrendous amount of foolishness that costed us the title. You should be saying SINCE 2009 ;-)

[ferrari4life]

I think that Ferrari went though a long stretch of time before we starting winning in the late 90's.. The sport will move on without us if we dont know hwo to keep up.

[Silent Bob]

Might also be the fact that other top teams seem to be able to lobby better for rules that suit them. These new rules play into Mercedes' strengths, they knew that and spent years building a car optimized to the changes. Red Bull, before the changes, lobbied hard to keep EBD's and last year to get the tires changed. Guess they get their way when they threaten to quit the sport and unlike Ferrari, then can quit with out a backward glance, racing isn't integral to their businesses.

[REDARMYSOJA]

Sometimes the other guy just does a better job.

[Ferrarichamp]

I think a lot of it had to do with poor management. Hopefully things will improve from next year onwards with better cars.

[ferrari4life]

Might also be the fact that other top teams seem to be able to lobby better for rules that suit them. These new rules play into Mercedes' strengths, they knew that and spent years building a car optimized to the changes. Red Bull, before the changes, lobbied hard to keep EBD's and last year to get the tires changed. Guess they get their way when they threaten to quit the sport and unlike Ferrari, then can quit with out a backward glance, racing isn't integral to their businesses.

Ferrari could quit just the same. There are other racing series that would love to have Ferrari join right?
Also didnt Ferrari also lobby for these engine changes?

[Kingdom Hearts]

Ferrari could quit just the same. There are other racing series that would love to have Ferrari join right?
Also didnt Ferrari also lobby for these engine changes?

They lobby for F1 to be more about the engine and not the aero, but I think they didn't lke the V6 in particular. I believe it was Mercedes who pused the most for the V6.

[AfterLife]

Why Ferrari hasn't had best car from start since 2008 .........?

That is what Italia, Spain, Finland, Ferrari, all the Ferrari fans, Fernando Alonso fans, Kimi Raikkonen fans and me are trying to figure out :-D

[vecchiasignora]

Between 04 - 08, we should have won more titles. but cheating prevailed

mclaren stole our data, renault used the mass dampers.
Schumacher should have won another drivers title, so should massa.

After Alonso arrived, our downhill started.The second driver starts to drive like we are a team outside the top 5..and alonso given all the keys to win.. building around alonso was the mistake imo.

[AfterLife]

Between 04 - 08, we should have won more titles. but cheating prevailed

mclaren stole our data, renault used the mass dampers.
Schumacher should have won another drivers title, so should massa.

After Alonso arrived, our downhill started.The second driver starts to drive like we are a team outside the top 5..and alonso given all the keys to win.. building around alonso was the mistake imo.

How about building team around Schumacher?

[Nero Horse]

There are always ups and downs in F1 and motorsport in general, that's the way it's always been. After a period of winning and dominating come tougher times, because of rule changes or some other reason. We had our glory days in the early 2000's and now we're just going through a lean period, and sooner or later we'll be back on top again, I have no doubt about that. Like Redarmysoja said: "Sometimes the other guy just does a better job."

[Silent Bob]

They did do a better job, but like in all sport, you lobby to give yourself the best possible scenarios. If Ferrari successfully lobbied to allow unlimited in season testing, would we benefit more than some of the other teams?
Ferrari can't quit F1 because there isn't another series that has the prestige of F1 (although it's quickly losing it's luster).

[Greig]

Might also be the fact that other top teams seem to be able to lobby better for rules that suit them. These new rules play into Mercedes' strengths, they knew that and spent years building a car optimized to the changes.

Ferrari wanted these new rules as well as Merc. Unlimited testing is just as likely to benefit others as much as us and it's no certainty it would make us suddenly win.

[SS454]

If this question was easy to answer, Ferrari would be the best again. But it's good for topic.

- Ferrari loses Rory Byrne. IMO, he was right there with Newey.

- Red Bull gains Newey. Proven for decades to be right at the top of best designer/engineers.

- I think Ferrari have always been strong aerodynamically in the 97-08 era. With the grooved tires, Ferrari's aero program put them ahead on most tracks. On the flip side I think they have traditionally sacrificed some mechanical grip for the aero grip. Be it in suspension design, under-bodywork packaging, wheel base, etc. Slow corner traction has not been a strong point. So I believe when in 2009 when the rules removed all the aerobits that Ferrari perfected and put a higher importance to mechanical grip, they started to struggle.

- engine. I don't think Ferrari has had the best engine for a long time. The FIA development blocking on engines restricts them from catching up if they don't get it right early. Like this year, Mercedes got it right, and now Ferrari and Renault are working on software tunes to gain power, where as the mechanical function of the engine is locked out.

- I think the pit wall has been a let down for years now. Since Brawn and Todt left, there hasn't been the confidence or knowledge to make the right calls at the right time. This brought mistakes in the strategy. Also there have been pit crew mistakes as well. This has been very costly at times. 2008 and 2010 could have been championship years if it was not for some bad calls and mistakes.

The funny thing is, if you a remove a few mistakes or some bad luck moments out of the equation in the last 10 years, I think you would find the results very different. In 2006 if Schumacher doesn't crash out of Australia or the engine doesn't blow in Japan, he's champion. In 2008 if Massa doesn't have his pitstop go to hell in Singapore (i think), he's champion. In 2010 if Ferrari got the strategy right in the last race, Alonso is champ. In 2012 if Alonso isn't taken out of 2 races in the opening laps, he's champion again.

[ALO]

conspiracy theory in the making:

Merc's secret test last year was actually this years car with engine and all :-E

:rotfl

[Alonsomaniac]

After Alonso arrived, our downhill started.The second driver starts to drive like we are a team outside the top 5..and alonso given all the keys to win.. building around alonso was the mistake imo.


It's pretty clear by now that you don't like Fernando Alonso. Fine, your good right. But don't blame one of the very best drivers we ever had and certainly the best F1 driver of his era for Ferrari's problems.
Praise him for his loyalty and trust in Ferrari.
The man is a tifoso in a racingcar.

[ALO]

Alonso's started our downhill LOL :lol

must be Friday the 13th or full moon today

[Senna4Ever]

After Alonso arrived, our downhill started.The second driver starts to drive like we are a team outside the top 5..and alonso given all the keys to win.. building around alonso was the mistake imo.

:clap
You're my man ...

[ALO]

but she's not a man :-P

[Nero Horse]

Ferrari wanted these new rules as well as Merc. Unlimited testing is just as likely to benefit others as much as us and it's no certainty it would make us suddenly win.

Well if we had unlimited testing then at least we could work on fixing our problems and get closer to Merc, but right now without in-season testing it's very difficult to significantly improve our car.

[Greig]

Well if we had unlimited testing then at least we could work on fixing our problems and get closer to Merc, but right now without in-season testing it's very difficult to significantly improve our car.

How come others are improving?

[Gould]

Um, no. It was Ferrari who was always moaning about F1 being too "aero based". Only last year LDM was complaining about RBR's dominance. No we have what we wanted, a more engine based formula. What did we do? Exactly.




Might also be the fact that other top teams seem to be able to lobby better for rules that suit them. These new rules play into Mercedes' strengths, they knew that and spent years building a car optimized to the changes. Red Bull, before the changes, lobbied hard to keep EBD's and last year to get the tires changed. Guess they get their way when they threaten to quit the sport and unlike Ferrari, then can quit with out a backward glance, racing isn't integral to their businesses.

[Gould]

Unlimited testing would see Merc improve as well. How did you figure this would only suit Ferrari?


Well if we had unlimited testing then at least we could work on fixing our problems and get closer to Merc, but right now without in-season testing it's very difficult to significantly improve our car.

[Nero Horse]

How come others are improving?

That's the million dollar question right there! Dunno really, maybe it's our wind tunnel that's still not working properly or maybe it's some fundamental problem that we have. But I'm fairly certain that if we'd have unlimited testing then we wouldn't be in such deep trouble as we are right now.

[Giallo 550]

Between 04 - 08, we should have won more titles. but cheating prevailed

mclaren stole our data, renault used the mass dampers.
Schumacher should have won another drivers title, so should massa.

After Alonso arrived, our downhill started.The second driver starts to drive like we are a team outside the top 5..and alonso given all the keys to win.. building around alonso was the mistake imo.

Absurd.

[REDARMYSOJA]

That's the million dollar question right there! Dunno really, maybe it's our wind tunnel that's still not working properly or maybe it's some fundamental problem that we have. But I'm fairly certain that if we'd have unlimited testing then we wouldn't be in such deep trouble as we are right now.

Having their own test track certainly wouldn't hurt Ferrari if they could test anytime they wanted. But if that windtunnel isn't fixed by now they need to burn it down, turn it into a shopping mall or something.

[ntukza]

That's the million dollar question right there! Dunno really, maybe it's our wind tunnel that's still not working properly or maybe it's some fundamental problem that we have. But I'm fairly certain that if we'd have unlimited testing then we wouldn't be in such deep trouble as we are right now.

That's the million dollar question you should have considered before claiming that it's difficult to improve the car significantly without testing. And don't be so sure about testing alleviating our troubles. That's what we all thought about an engine-biased formula. We've parted with a lot of the good people who made us successful during the testing era. Bringing that era back will not bring them back, and hence might not resolve our woes. I'm worried more about the people and systems we have than the climate they're working in.

[ntukza]

To add onto the testing theory; RBR has had far less testing than Ferrari coming into this season. The advantage hasn't given us much of an advantage, has it? More in-season testing would surely make F1 more exciting in my opinion, and unfortunately it will expose us further.

[Rishu]

Something is terribly wrong, you've got the working wind tunnel, engine era, best of engineers,best of drivers, good funding & still we can't build a good car. Problem lies somewhere else, but that's MM's job identify & resolve. Hopefully he delivers.

[JPZ]

Teams should be able to do more testing and develop and change the engine as much as they want.

Go back to similar rules like the late 90's to 2000.

In regards to lack of performance at Ferrari, I think the problem was the leadership.

[ManFromMilan]

In regards to lack of performance at Ferrari, I think the problem was the leadership.



I think you are absolutely correct with that assessment.

[Gould]

Ferrari has had the Fiorano test track for more than 40 years. Even in the days of unlimited testing, we didn't win everything. Real life testing isn't everything. The car needs to be sound from the start.

[Silent Bob]

Um, no. It was Ferrari who was always moaning about F1 being too "aero based". Only last year LDM was complaining about RBR's dominance. No we have what we wanted, a more engine based formula. What did we do? Exactly.


Since when does engine based mean 'hybrid'. Once again other teams lobbied and got what they wanted. I'm sure Ferrari would have been happy if they could have kept V8's and developed them rather than the engine formula we have now. And testing would indeed benefit us. If we had testing the last few years I'm sure the wind tunnel issues and correlation would have been fixed or found a lot sooner.

[Nero Horse]

That's the million dollar question you should have considered before claiming that it's difficult to improve the car significantly without testing. And don't be so sure about testing alleviating our troubles. That's what we all thought about an engine-biased formula. We've parted with a lot of the good people who made us successful during the testing era. Bringing that era back will not bring them back, and hence might not resolve our woes. I'm worried more about the people and systems we have then the climate they're working in.

Why don't you try to calm down a bit, huh? Maybe unlimited testing wouldn't alleviate our troubles right away, but at least it would allow us to keep trying different ways to find solutions to our problems. We could be out there on the Fiorano track testing 24/7 till we finally get it right and fix our problems. And yes of course unlimited testing could and probably would benefit Merc and RB as well, but I'd rather take my chances with the unlimited testing rule rather than being in the situation we are right now where we're basically standing still in terms of development and repeating the same mistakes year after year.

[wisepie]

Something is terribly wrong, you've got the working wind tunnel, engine era, best of engineers,best of drivers, good funding & still we can't build a good car. Problem lies somewhere else, but that's MM's job identify & resolve. Hopefully he delivers.

You're right Rishu, and I agree with Nero Horse too, let's hope MM or whoever follows him if he's not there long-term, can do the business and get us bacl where we belong. The engine freeze has probably done us more harm than unlimited testing, but as they say, practice makes perfect so Merc have been up to something IMO.

[Majki2111]

But with all the resources the problems shouldn't appear. With all the people Ferrari has they must do at least as fast car as their rival's. They never delivered best car from start since 2009.

[fratelliferrari]

But with all the resources the problems shouldn't appear. With all the people Ferrari has they must do at least as fast car as their rival's. They never delivered best car from start since 2009.

Well to be honest we began with a 1-2 finish in Bahrain in 2010 :-D

[Majki2111]

Well to be honest we began with a 1-2 finish in Bahrain in 2010 :-DBut it was obvious that RB6 was faster than F10. They had most pole positions.
(I know RB6 was unreliable but still it has won the championship. And just because of that Alonso got stuck behind Petrov in Abu Dhabi).

[ntukza]

Why don't you try to calm down a bit, huh? Maybe unlimited testing wouldn't alleviate our troubles right away, but at least it would allow us to keep trying different ways to find solutions to our problems. We could be out there on the Fiorano track testing 24/7 till we finally get it right and fix our problems. And yes of course unlimited testing could and probably would benefit Merc and RB as well, but I'd rather take my chances with the unlimited testing rule rather than being in the situation we are right now where we're basically standing still in terms of development and repeating the same mistakes year after year.

Okay, maybe I was a bit uptight there. My apologies.

Anyway, Ferrari don't seem to know what a fast car is. Ay the start of the season the team was confident it had a winner. Coming to Canada the team was certain it had a notable upgrade. I understand that more testing could help unveil the setbacks sooner but it's disappointing that our team can't make do with the current methods when all the other teams are managing very well.

[Greig]

Since when does engine based mean 'hybrid'. Once again other teams lobbied and got what they wanted. I'm sure Ferrari would have been happy if they could have kept V8's and developed them rather than the engine formula we have now. And testing would indeed benefit us. If we had testing the last few years I'm sure the wind tunnel issues and correlation would have been fixed or found a lot sooner.

Pretty sure Ferrari and Merc were the ones who lobbied for these engines.

[Nero Horse]

Okay, maybe I was a bit uptight there. My apologies.

Anyway, Ferrari don't seem to know what a fast car is. Ay the start of the season the team was confident it had a winner. Coming to Canada the team was certain it had a notable upgrade. I understand that more testing could help unveil the setbacks sooner but it's disappointing that our team can't make do with the current methods when all the other teams are managing very well.

Apologies accepted, no hard feelings. :-)

And yes, I agree that it's sad and disappointing that our team can't seem to find the right path under the current rules. Just gotta hope that sooner, rather than later, they'll be able to figure it out and fix whatever problems there are.

[Kyss4k]

Briatore believes, Ferrari should have consider to have a technology base in UK. As that is the place, where the centre of F1 is. He states, that that is probably one of the things Ferrari was not able to get Newey and Cowell. And as Newey said several times, his family didn't want go to Italy. He says we are in quite deep crysis and that we didn't manage to get the people we needed to get through it.

I don't know, but he has a point in UK being the home of F1 technology and the best people are situated there. Basically every other team has a base over there. I hope our pride doesn't stand in getting better.

[FER]

Simple answer. As soon as a business is not developing in the right direction its problem is nothing else than the management, meaning the decision makers. No less, no more. Red Bull obviously have the better management being able to build a winning team around the right people. Mercedes have obviously the better management being able to get the rules in a way they need them to dominate. Some of you claim here and there how many percentage of importance do the driver have and how many the car. Neither of both is correct. You win in today's F1 to 95% because of the better management and this is where we lack on quality.

[FER]

Briatore believes, Ferrari should have consider to have a technology base in UK. As that is the place, where the centre of F1 is. He states, that that is probably one of the things Ferrari was not able to get Newey and Cowell. And as Newey said several times, his family didn't want go to Italy. He says we are in quite deep crysis and that we didn't manage to get the people we needed to get through it.

I don't know, but he has a point in UK being the home of F1 technology and the best people are situated there. Basically every other team has a base over there. I hope our pride doesn't stand in getting better.

I don't think this would help us out.
First of all Ferrari is one of the famoust brands worldwide and like we cannot just buy Mercedes power units from 2015 on, same aplies to moving our headquarter to England.
Secondly, I personally prefer to wait 5 more years to see Ferrari winning over Newey cars, than see how we do it next year with Newey in the team.

[abbottcostello]

this is like trying to solve why the world still has poverty or wars, you need someone who has a vision of the future, free from thinking that going back to the "good old days" will be a solution to the future. You need to go forward w/o relying on history to boost you, requires clear & accurate thinking. Forget past glory & concentrate on what's going to happen down the road, be it 10 or 5 yrs or 6 months. Then give the technical people room to breathe & innovate.

Engines are not as in the past AND the importance of aero will never go away. As long as Mattiacci can find operating room with Luca hovering, he will bring some forward thinking & reasonable progress.

You don't need the best car, but you do need to react, refine & improve it throughout the season.

[anacleto]

But we did react, refine but not improve. We got rid of Massa! :rotfl Just joking ! I fully agree with you.

[Nick Singer]

My sixpence-worth:

Too many cooks and all that.. Lots of first-class people (maybe TOO many?) but no key figurehead. LdM not fully 'hands-on' and we lack a charismatic, strong, visionary and determined boss. Suspect a full committee meeting has to take place to sanction anything whilst other teams maybe have more individual autonomy etc. Lack of 'creative freedom'?

We need someone like (not in all respects!) Briatore to administer several good kicks up the backside!

[eugene22n]

Cost caps and taking away unlimited testing leveled the playing field to a degree where superior creativity and genius got to the top.

Many other details like us taking way too long to get a new wind tunnel in.

[Senna4Ever]

Briatore believes, Ferrari should have consider to have a technology base in UK. As that is the place, where the centre of F1 is. He states, that that is probably one of the things Ferrari was not able to get Newey and Cowell.

1.) in the middle of the 80s and 1993 we tried this approach and the result was (keyword: John Barnard) ... everyone knows of the result: manageable
2.) Somehow I believe that Newey wouldn't want to work for us. For whatever reason. But if you really like to work at Ferrari ... you go and find a way ..

[anacleto]

Briatori is the cure for Ferrari!

[Gould]

Briatore is a convicted liar and a cheat and must never be associated with the Ferrari name or brand.

[Nero Horse]

Briatore believes, Ferrari should have consider to have a technology base in UK. As that is the place, where the centre of F1 is. He states, that that is probably one of the things Ferrari was not able to get Newey and Cowell. And as Newey said several times, his family didn't want go to Italy. He says we are in quite deep crysis and that we didn't manage to get the people we needed to get through it.

I don't know, but he has a point in UK being the home of F1 technology and the best people are situated there. Basically every other team has a base over there. I hope our pride doesn't stand in getting better.

We have won before without having any base in the UK and we will win again, I have absolutely no doubt about that. Not having a base in UK is certainly not the reason for our struggles. There are much more urgent and essential problems to deal with inside the team than not having a UK base. And once we get our infrastructural issues sorted out we'll be back on top.

As for Newey not wanting to come to Italy, well, people who really want to work for Ferrari will come to Italy anyway and those people who don't, like Newey, wouldn't work for Ferrari even if the F1 base would be in their own back yard. Just think about how many non-Italian people there are who have all worked for Ferrari and none of them had any problems with coming to Italy. Newey didn't come because he just stubbornly didn't want to come, and that's all there is to it.

[ntukza]

I agree with FER regarding Newey. I'd rather see us winning without him, and I hope we do, soon.

[sweeper1101]

It'll be sweeter to beat Newey rather than win with him alongside.

[Hornet]

It'll be sweeter to beat Newey rather than win with him alongside.

Newey is leaving F1 next year.

[diesel08]

Between 04 - 08, we should have won more titles. but cheating prevailed

mclaren stole our data, renault used the mass dampers.
Schumacher should have won another drivers title, so should massa.

After Alonso arrived, our downhill started.The second driver starts to drive like we are a team outside the top 5..and alonso given all the keys to win.. building around alonso was the mistake imo.

Sorry, no logic here, only pure hate :)

[Majki2111]

OK, it is logical for me that best people work in Ferrari. And Monza really showed performance of F14T. I am asking the same qiestion again. There are the best people with team that has money and where money isn't a problem...
Ferrari is living in old days. Many teams have advenced more then them. But just how???

[Lebaronrouge]

I don't know why we always forget the beginning of 2013 where we had a very competitive car. The wind changed when we arrived in a low degradation level track (Monaco and Canada) and when Pirelli decided to change their tyres.

[Majki2111]

I don't know why we always forget the beginning of 2013 where we had a very competitive car. The wind changed when we arrived in a low degradation level track (Monaco and Canada) and when Pirelli decided to change their tyres.Ferrari told they had luck withe tires being very soft in the begining of 2013.

[Greig]

Ferrari told they had luck withe tires being very soft in the begining of 2013.

LOL Newey said we had luck, off course he would......

[Nova]

I don't know why we always forget the beginning of 2013 where we had a very competitive car. The wind changed when we arrived in a low degradation level track (Monaco and Canada) and when Pirelli decided to change their tyres.

Agree. Pirelli make great road car tires, but their F1 program stinks. And we havent been competitive since
the compound change of 2013. Funny that.

[izybluffen]

Honestly you have to look at reality really.

1- Ferrari has won the most WCC and race wins in the history of the sport...............and that is nothing to complain about.
2- On average (I haven't worked this out, just guesstimate) Ferrari wins 1 or 2 WCC each decade. That's still a better average then any other team in history.
3- Ferrari has the prestige and history - No team has been in F1 longer.
4- You CANT win every race and every WCC, it's just impossible with rule changes, luck and tech guru's coming and going.

Add these together and just accept it.
Ferrari's time will come again sooner then later, so get behind your team and support it through the good and especially the bad times.

[Hornet]

Honestly you have to look at reality really.

1- Ferrari has won the most WCC and race wins in the history of the sport...............and that is nothing to complain about.
2- On average (I haven't worked this out, just guesstimate) Ferrari wins 1 or 2 WCC each decade. That's still a better average then any other team in history.
3- Ferrari has the prestige and history - No team has been in F1 longer.
4- You CANT win every race and every WCC, it's just impossible with rule changes, luck and tech guru's coming and going.

Add these together and just accept it.
Ferrari's time will come again sooner then later, so get behind your team and support it through the good and especially the bad times.

Completely agree with this :thumb

[eddie]

Testing times ahead.... now with all these new heads and we go back to the drawing board with new directions I presume.

[shamim179]

Honestly you have to look at reality really.

1- Ferrari has won the most WCC and race wins in the history of the sport...............and that is nothing to complain about.
2- On average (I haven't worked this out, just guesstimate) Ferrari wins 1 or 2 WCC each decade. That's still a better average then any other team in history.
3- Ferrari has the prestige and history - No team has been in F1 longer.
4- You CANT win every race and every WCC, it's just impossible with rule changes, luck and tech guru's coming and going.

Add these together and just accept it.
Ferrari's time will come again sooner then later, so get behind your team and support it through the good and especially the bad times.

If you look at in that way of course it will look good. But businesses focus more on the present and the future. If you look at the last five years then it paints a worrying picture. Ferrari have been steadily declining with no indications that this has stopped or will stop.

[F1NAC]

one of the main reasons are:

1 Testing ban
2. wind tunel - our was outdated because of scale change
3. lacking imagination, not pushing rules to boundaries

[Aberracus]

4. Internal Politics

[Majki2111]

I think Ferrari sholdn't be a sinonim for win in F1. MGP and RBR should. Tifosi and Ferrari itself is living on old glory days and began to call themselves on great and succesfull history. Why? It is sign of weakness. MGP and RBR are dominating them regularly in the past 5 years.
HISTORY OVERRATED

[Kiwi Nick]

I think Ferrari sholdn't be a sinonim for win in F1. MGP and RBR should. Tifosi and Ferrari itself is living on old glory days and began to call themselves on great and succesfull history. Why? It is sign of weakness. MGP and RBR are dominating them regularly in the past 5 years.
HISTORY OVERRATED

"dude, what the heck are you talking about.? are you just trolling on here looking for a fight?" -ferrari4life

Seems like the universal response!

[Majki2111]

"dude, what the heck are you talking about.? are you just trolling on here looking for a fight?" -ferrari4life

Seems like the universal response!Not trolling you can check my other posts. This is just my general opinion an not looking for a fight.

[Brembo]

I think Ferrari sholdn't be a sinonim for win in F1. MGP and RBR should. Tifosi and Ferrari itself is living on old glory days and began to call themselves on great and succesfull history. Why? It is sign of weakness. MGP and RBR are dominating them regularly in the past 5 years.
HISTORY OVERRATED

Do you believe RB fans should now become Merc fans? I think Ferrari fans will continue thinking there team is best. That's what makes us FANS. Not the electric kind.

[Majki2111]

Do you believe RB fans should now become Merc fans? I think Ferrari fans will continue thinking there team is best. That's what makes us FANS. Not the electric kind.No, I'm not glory hunter and just saying that people in Ferrari need to rethink about their mentality. Look where Ferrari is now by calling themselves on history. Neither MGP nor RBR has history like Ferrari and look where they are now. Ahead in every point of organisation and resaults of Ferrari in the past 5 years. Nobody can deny Ferrari's succes in the past, but hey this is past and has nothing to do with present times.
There is always Ferrari passion and everything. I even don't agree with Alonso where he states that WDC with Ferrari is the biggest thing in F1. I think the bigger thing can be WDC with mid-table team. But there you have it, Ferrari is now mid-table team, so I'm pretty calm about this statemant.
And for example. How can RBR beat Ferrari in last V8 EBD era? You would expect Ferrari to have so much expirience with it's history and look what happened. Team with no history or any amount of expirience in F1 like Ferrari owns the the same team for 5 years in row. :furious:rotfl:roll
Same as MGP. They got back in 2010. OK they were not that good in this period But they beat Ferrari in regulations which Ferrari was asking for.
So what has history given Ferrari? Nothing, No resaults, no expirience to beat team with no history in F1 and worse organisation level by comparison with RBR and MGP.
Acually sam thing is happening with McLaren. Big history, "McLaren is a big team" etc. and they are owned now by same teams as Ferrari. :Hmm:Hmm

[Brembo]

Wow ! That's a lot on negativity there. I'm just glad to see your here, still a Ferrari fan watching every move the team makes and hoping for the best. I hope?

[sav_pap]

Too many paramerers involved... First of all people who could not deliver (not the drivers) while the rules were changing (not in our favour) and on track tests were going leaving in their place wind tunnel data and simulators. Secondly cost limits and all the restriction rules made smaller teams to come closer to the top. It's so unfortunate to have the best driver and no results. I finally believe that the human factor was the most basic and important for the Ferrari black 2008 and on era.

[grinchy]

Hi all, was at Silverstone yesterday at Ferrari racing day to watch the last World Championship Winning car F1 2007. Excellent day well recommended

[fratelliferrari]

Hi all, was at Silverstone yesterday at Ferrari racing day to watch the last World Championship Winning car F1 2007. Excellent day well recommended

Iam really jealous! I want to go to the Ferrari days someday but sadly Silverstone was a bit too far away for me :-s

[grinchy]

Iam really jealous! I want to go to the Ferrari days someday but sadly Silverstone was a bit too far away for me :-s

Yesterday was excellent value, £15.00 a ticket free parking and to top that Silverstone new pits ( the wing) was open to all including pit garages. How's that!.

[fratelliferrari]

Yesterday was excellent value, £15.00 a ticket free parking and to top that Silverstone new pits ( the wing) was open to all including pit garages. How's that!.

Well the price isn't the problem but the distance is LOL! Sadly I don't we will ever get Ferrari racing days in thecNetherlands.

[grinchy]

Well the price isn't the problem but the distance is LOL! Sadly I don't we will ever get Ferrari racing days in thecNetherlands.

Shame! like I say its an excellent day out. just google ( corse clienti ) and hopefully there is a race nearest to you.