Fernando Alonso says Felipe Massa 'playing' with him in closing stages of Austrian GP

[vcs316]

Mercedes' power advantage at the Austrian GP was such that Fernando Alonso reckoned Felipe Massa was "playing" with him in the closing stages of Sunday's race.

The Ferrari driver closed to within about a second of his former team-mate with a dozen of the race's 71 laps to go before Massa calmly started to pull away again in his Mercedes-powered Williams - Alonso therefore having to content himself with fifth place at the chequered flag.

With the German manufacturer's superiority once more underlined by Nico Rosberg leading Lewis Hamilton home in the works team's sixth one-two of the season, Ferrari's deficit was again laid bare in the scenic Styrian Mountains.

Alonso put in a typically spirited performance and even led the race for a short time around the second pit-stop window.

In truth, however, the closest the double World Champion got to the Silver Arrows was when he was passed by the fast-starting Hamilton on the opening lap.

"I was close with Massa at the end and then he pull away," Alonso said afterwards. "The same with Hamilton on the first lap; it was unbelievable, the difference between the two cars. If they're running with those settings, they will probably lap everyone.

"With Massa, I think he was just controlling the pace to be honest. I get close to him with ten or 11 lap to go and then when I was in the DRS zone, he pull away another two seconds. So he was playing a little bit."

Alonso's presence might once again have been conspicuous amongst rivals enjoying Mercedes' clear advantage but the Spaniard said he gained little satisfaction from it.

"Not much," he sighed. "It's been five years like this. There is always satisfaction that everyone believes you are always performing at your best. There's the respect from drivers, Team Principals and fans for the job that you do.

"But I prefer to have no respect and to win more trophies."

Although insisting that Ferrari have "definitely" progressed with their F14 T so far this season, Sunday's result suggested that, relatively speaking, the Scuderia are treading water.

Alonso is optimistic the steep development curve that F1's new hybrid formula offers will allow them to make headway in the next year. However, the same cannot be said for the balance of the current season.

"We saw some cases in the past that many things can change, especially this year, where we are very new with these regulations in 2014," he said.

"I expect 2015 again will be a big step for everybody, including Mercedes. We all will be better next year and definitely the teams that start with a lower baseline, we have more margin to improve.

"We will get closer or at the level of Mercedes and that's our hope."

But what about this year? "To Mercedes? Close the gap? Impossible," was Alonso's blunt assessment.

If anything, Kimi Raikkonen was even more vexed after finishing tenth in a sister Ferrari that still isn't handling how he would like it to.

"I hate it when there's no front end in the car and right now if I put any front end on, we lose the rear completely," the Finn grumbled.

"We try to balance it out and somehow get it to work but this seems to be very difficult and we still have a lot of work to do before we are happy with things. It will take time but for sure we'll get there at some point.

"It was really difficult today, the car. We had the same issues the whole weekend really."

Raikkonen spat out one of his trademark comebacks during the race after being told over the radio that he must speed up to pass Jenson Button's McLaren. "Well give me more power then!" was the exasperated reply.

The 2007 World Champion eventually got by but said that braking was a bigger problem. "We had to go down [on power] but also after two laps I had some brake issues, they asked me to cool the brakes but I was fighting guys in front and behind me," he added.

"It's quite difficult after two laps when you've been asked to slow down with brake issues. Those kind of things should not be happening, we have to fix them."

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12474/9358070?

[anacleto]

According to Kimi he has no power and brake issues. Ferrari did provide him with 4 tires, gas and a steering wheel. I would consider having background checks on all Ferrari engineers, to be sure there working for Ferrari.

[Brakefade]

Ferrari and Renault need to lobby the FIA to allow full on engine development. Honda is sitting back and watching all of these, and will surely have a huge advantage, if the FIA engine freeze is still in place in 2015. It's only fair that every manufacturer is allowed to fully develop their engines. The fuel flow regulation will assure that power levels don't get out of hand. If full engine development was allowed, Ferrari, RB, and Renault would be up there with Mercedes fighting for wins, and the season would be much more exciting.

[alfaromeo]

this is the most stupid regulation, that ferrari and renault cant developmnet their engines between season. They know what they need to change but they can not.

[Greig]

Is there any rule to stop a team changing engine supplier mid-season?

Ferrari could then just make a new engine and PU, brand it as some other name and change to it?

[brava]

Is there any rule to stop a team changing engine supplier mid-season?



I was afraid initially that you're suggesting a Mercedes power unit for our cars :-D

[racingbradley]

Oh dear I hope Nando and Felipe enjoyed the game of cat and mouse ;-);-)

[Stino]

Is there any rule to stop a team changing engine supplier mid-season?

Ferrari could then just make a new engine and PU, brand it as some other name and change to it?

Interesting idea. And wouldn't that be a great way to initiate the comeback of the Dino name in F1? :)

[harry harris]

Ferrari and Renault need to lobby the FIA to allow full on engine development. Honda is sitting back and watching all of these, and will surely have a huge advantage, if the FIA engine freeze is still in place in 2015. It's only fair that every manufacturer is allowed to fully develop their engines. The fuel flow regulation will assure that power levels don't get out of hand. If full engine development was allowed, Ferrari, RB, and Renault would be up there with Mercedes fighting for wins, and the season would be much more exciting.

Feel sad what had happened to our team. But I believe James Allison has a lot of ideas and inovations and foresee our weakness point. Forget this year championships and concentrate on our next year car. Feel sad our Mr Tombazis has failed us again ...... maybe he's the one who should take the blame.... guy! we should learned from the past not to repeat the same mistakes :-!

[FFFerrari]

It is sad times when Ferrari is so outclassed in the engine side of racing. The freeze needs to be lifted and sooner the better.

[BigGar32]

Ferrari and Renault need to lobby the FIA to allow full on engine development. Honda is sitting back and watching all of these, and will surely have a huge advantage, if the FIA engine freeze is still in place in 2015. It's only fair that every manufacturer is allowed to fully develop their engines. The fuel flow regulation will assure that power levels don't get out of hand. If full engine development was allowed, Ferrari, RB, and Renault would be up there with Mercedes fighting for wins, and the season would be much more exciting.

Would you be saying the same if our engine was the dominant power unit????

[Hornet]

Is there any rule to stop a team changing engine supplier mid-season?

Ferrari could then just make a new engine and PU, brand it as some other name and change to it?

That's an interesting thought. Even if not mid season, I think there are advantage to be had if we could completely design a new PU and change to that next year, as it would not be restricted by the amount of performance upgrades allowed for next year.

But I'd imagine the FIA would probably investigate if Ferrari started using some unknown PU brand.

[Kristof_F40]

That's an interesting thought. Even if not mid season, I think there are advantage to be had if we could completely design a new PU and change to that next year, as it would not be restricted by the amount of performance upgrades allowed for next year.

But I'd imagine the FIA would probably investigate if Ferrari started using some unknown PU brand.

It's not just that, engine is only frozen for 8% or so I think at this point) so there is a lot of change possible, ofcourse if the problems is in this 8%, than not. But making a complete new engine? It's not easily done, it takes a lot of time, besides, we now have a lot of knowledge about this engine, it's better to develop this one. I think our biggest problem is being able to use all the power and deliver power. We just need to develop this one and make sure that for our next car engine and chassis are better matched..

[IulianFerrari]

Would you be saying the same if our engine was the dominant power unit????
Good point but it has to stop. A team winning almost all the races is a bad reputation for f1. I was excited with changes and stuff but it is worse than last year. At least let them develop the engine, who came up with this stupid rule ? They are condemning us to having the same result from race 1 for the entire season !!! Utter stupidity if you ask me. People should be allowed to develop everything, like it always was.

[WS6TransAm01]

I thought engine development will be allowed in the off season between '14 and '15

[Senna4Ever]

Is there any rule to stop a team changing engine supplier mid-season?

Ferrari could then just make a new engine and PU, brand it as some other name and change to it?

Indeed a interesting thought ...
But in the other hand (even the engine would have been build in Maranello) how would it look like when Ferrari needs to change the "engine-supplier"? Would it be worth to loose face completely?

[dpiatto]

Indeed a interesting thought ...
But in the other hand (even the engine would have been build in Maranello) how would it look like when Ferrari needs to change the "engine-supplier"? Would it be worth to loose face completely?

Brilliant idea ,just re brand the Engine & Pu something like Scuderia Corse to find a loophole & make the necessary changes until 2015 when it can change back.
Job Done.lol

[PURE PASSION]

Is anyone have the laps of the last part when Alo was in drs zone os massa and after. Because if i remember correctly when he was catching massa he (mas) also went fast to catch bottas and alo was even faster. My point is, i think that he slow down a bit for fuel saving.

[Nero Horse]

I thought engine development will be allowed in the off season between '14 and '15

Yes, the engine development freeze will be lifted at the end of this season and we can then fix whatever issues we have right now.

[impactX]

"But I prefer to have no respect and to win more trophies."

lol is he talking about Vettel? lol

[AfterLife]

It is sad times when Ferrari is so outclassed in the engine side of racing. The freeze needs to be lifted and sooner the better.

It is sad but Mercedes engine was the most powerful one in V8 era too. In V8 era All Mercedes powered cars were decent in straights.

[AfterLife]

Fernando Alonso says Felipe Massa 'playing' with him in closing stages of Austrian GP
As usual media adventure. The article has nothing to do with it's title.

[Senna4Ever]

I thought engine development will be allowed in the off season between '14 and '15


On page 89 (Appendix 4) of the Technical Regulations of Formula 1 is to determine exactly what must be done after this season and what is not. Of 66 defined components 61 are allowed to be replaced, in a proportion of the entire power unit expressed even 92 percent.
But in 2016 are then already 23 percent of the whole unit are "frozen" instead of eight percent, "
2018 25 percent and 2019 was 95 percent.

Means: 2015 is the best opportunity to improve the existing base drives. In the winter may be changed almost everything

This also challenges the discontented statements of Renault and Ferrari, because in winter the two manufacturers have the opportunity to mend their mistakes in the development of the initial concept - and not just in the software (even during the season), but also just in the hardware area (just after the season).

And this means that for HONDA it will be harder to get a problem under control because 2016 more parts frozen.

[AfterLife]

Is there any rule to stop a team changing engine supplier mid-season?

Ferrari could then just make a new engine and PU, brand it as some other name and change to it?

One of my biggest worry is that Will Ferrari and Renault power units be able to catch Mercedes power unit?

Plus Mercedes will have upgrades for their power unit too :giveup

[impactX]

As usual media adventure. The article has nothing to do with it's title.

Not really:

"With Massa, I think he was just controlling the pace to be honest. I get close to him with ten or 11 lap to go and then when I was in the DRS zone, he pull away another two seconds. So he was playing a little bit."

[Samcar222]

I'd imagine that Ferrari has had an early b-spec 2015 (call it whatever you want) engine on the dyno for a few weeks now. I just read an article about the LM24 rumors, saying that the although the F1 units are allowed at Le Mans, they lack the power to be competitive (Toyota's LMP1 car is apparently putting out close to 1000 hp petrol+electrics, maybe 900 for Porsche, and 800 for Audi (my very rough guesses based on the electric megajoule class they run), compared to ~750hp for f1 petrol+electrics).

It's really frustrating that teams cannot open up the motors this year and tinker with them, cost savings be damned. The thing that scares me the most is the Honda situation. Honda aren't stupid, and again rules aside, what stops them from putting their new creation in the back of an NSX Super GT car and running around the twin ring motegi until it blows up to study and improve.. *rant over*

[Nero Horse]

It is sad but Mercedes engine was the most powerful one in V8 era too. In V8 era All Mercedes powered cars were decent in straights.

No, not really, we were at least on par with them. As I recall, our top speed was always better than the Merc-engined cars in previous seasons.

[Hornet]

One of my biggest worry is that Will Ferrari and Renault power units be able to catch Mercedes power unit?

Plus Mercedes will have upgrades for their power unit too :giveup

Some people think that in the long run, if eventually someone gets left behind, the FIA will make exception to ensure everyone is on equal footing. IIRC, Renault had some problems with their V8, and they were allowed to make some changes despite the engine freeze. So this will not be something new.

For now we won't see anything like that as the teams can still make huge changes next year, but as the engine gets frozen in a few years time, we may see this, IF someone gets left behind. The FIA will not freeze the engine the way it is right now, otherwise Merc will forever win every year until they change the engine.

[AfterLife]

Some people think that in the long run, if eventually someone gets left behind, the FIA will make exception to ensure everyone is on equal footing. IIRC, Renault had some problems with their V8, and they were allowed to make some changes despite the engine freeze. So this will not be something new.

For now we won't see anything like that as the teams can still make huge changes next year, but as the engine gets frozen in a few years time, we may see this, IF someone gets left behind. The FIA will not freeze the engine the way it is right now, otherwise Merc will forever win every year until they change the engine.

Renault's V8 always was down on power compare to Mercedes or Ferrari and they couldn't do anything about it.

[Hornet]

Renault's V8 always was down on power compare to Mercedes or Ferrari and they couldn't do anything about it.

Well perhaps they were not able to get exactly on par with Merc and Ferrari, I'm not exactly sure. But according to this article, they were allowed some performance changes after some rule changes made them less competitive. This is where I learn about the changes anyway :oops


The question then arises, could a powerful lobby, for example comprising Renault powered teams, persuade the FIA to let them make performance steps DURING this season in the interests of the sport, if they were behind?

There are precedents for this. In 2008/9 Renault and Honda both applied for such a dispensation. The V8 engines had been introduced a grew years earlier and Renault won the 2006 world championship with Fernando Alonso, but for 2007 the rev limit was dropped to 19,000rpm and Renault and Honda became less competitive. In 2008 a further drop to 18,000rpm and a new rule saying that for 2009, in addition to introducing KERS, drivers could each have a maximum of 8 engines per season meant that they were both down on power.

Honda pulled out of F1, but Renault got its dispensation and was allowed to make some performance changes.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/02/feb-28th-is-lock-down-day-for-f1-engines-but-will-renault-be-able-to-lobby-for-changes/

[aroutis]

Would you be saying the same if our engine was the dominant power unit????
I don't particularly care how that will sound, but as this is troubled times for Ferrari, they have to do what is good for Ferrari. I am pretty sure this makes sense.

If you do know your F1 history, this would not be the first time, and I am pretty sure this won't be the last, should of course that happens.

In that retrospect, your question makes no sense, I fear, as things like that happen every day in the days of F1, meaning that every team only cares for themselves, or should, that also should include Ferrari.

[Suzie]

As usual media adventure. The article has nothing to do with it's title.

Definitely! I opened this thread with dread as I thought Felipe would be getting his customary post-race hammering ;-)

[Daryesh]

Feel sad what had happened to our team. But I believe James Allison has a lot of ideas and inovations and foresee our weakness point. Forget this year championships and concentrate on our next year car. Feel sad our Mr Tombazis has failed us again ...... maybe he's the one who should take the blame.... guy! we should learned from the past not to repeat the same mistakes :-!

Exactly the same as every year since 2008. Next year for sure!

[REDARMYSOJA]

I'm not sure there is going to be any quick fix to enable Ferrari, or any other non-Mercedes powered team to catch Mercedes. Mercedes wanted these power units or they were probably going to leave F1...



Now Mercedes has revealed it would also probably have stopped if F1 had not decided to commit to the efficiency formula in 2009, around the time BMW and Toyota left the sport.

"I think so, yeah," Weber told BBC Sport. "Because we had the discussion."

"We had at different times the challenge to discuss F1 with the [Daimler] supervisory board," he added.

"We had hard discussions. And it was always - and even more so when it came to the later years - harder to explain why we were using naturally aspirated engines.

"Now with these new regulations I can clearly convince the supervisory board that the [F1 team] are doing exactly what we need - downsizing, direct injection, lightweight construction, fuel efficiency on the highest possible level, new technologies and combining a combustion engine with an e-motor hybrid."


http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/26943423


So soon after these current power unit rules were announced, they started work not only on this seasons power unit, but also the chassis...



“That relationship has grown since the beginning of 2010,” Andy Cowell, director of the Mercedes engine program, said, referring to links connecting the Mercedes car company in Germany, the chassis-building team in Brackley, England and the engine-building group in Brixworth, England. “That relationship has blossomed, and this project started during the regulation discussion over that same period of time.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/05/sports/autoracing/mercedes-retools-for-a-fast-fresh-formula-one-start.html?_r=0

So it seems clear both the engine department in Brixworth and chassis department in Brackley have been on this current design since this years power unit regulations were announced in 2010. They themselves say the power unit and chassis were designed together...


Mercedes is confident that being able to develop the engine in tandem with the chassis has given its team an advantage this year.

"I think so, yes," managing director of Mercedes High Performance Powertrains Andy Cowell said. "The Mercedes power unit is designed in close collaboration with Bob Bell the technical director [of Mercedes], and has been right from the release of the regulations. Every nut, bolt, washer and cable is designed around this car. That provides an advantage."

Mercedes executive director (technical) Paddy Lowe said working closely with the engine team based in Brixworth had allowed his team to tightly package the rear of the car to maximise downforce.

http://en.espnf1.com/mercedes/motorsport/story/144609.html

So it seems pretty clear to me that Mercedes went all in for this current design and have been at it for years now. It's no wonder they are so dominant. Although I'm sure the other teams have been working on the current design for awhile also, I don't think they committed the resources to this current design that Mercedes did. It seems this was the total focus of Mercedes the past several years, knowing they would not do so well during that time, but would have a big advantage come this season. Ferrari and Red Bull and even Lotus/Renault have been involved in championship fights which required more commitment, and while they were distracted Mercedes was hard at work with an aim for this season.

However, they did not do anything the other teams couldn't have done as well. I'd say the other teams have all been caught with their pants down and are just going to have to ride it out. We may be in for a long Mercedes run.

[AfterLife]

Working on a project about 4 years doesn't mean surely it will payoff. Mercedes is successful because they have done it properly. So well done to them.
I don't think battle for the championship was only between RedBull, Ferrari and lotus. Mercedes 2013 car was second best car.
RedBull have done a slightly better job than Mercedes in chassis part despite fighting for championships last years but Renault let them down.

[abbottcostello]

Would you be saying the same if our engine was the dominant power unit????
I have a feeling if anyone would straight-up answer this question without a whole lot of dancing around, the answer would be a simple, single word reply.... "NO"

I would be over the moon if Ferrari would have managed this feat, as a matter of fact this is the exact result I had hoped for all the off-season, Ferrari with total dominance!!! On the other hand, I'm not crying for rule changes, every team knew what they were and what was at stake, no time for crying foul now.

Now Ferrari just needs to work smart within the rules, bending & stretching them wherever possible to catch up or pass Merc & Renault. If it can't be until next year, so be it, just be prepared to take advantage of every possible chance the rules give us
If Greig's idea has any possibility, go ahead & do it. Obviously, the FIA & all the teams would know what we were up to, so keep to the letter of the rules! The Ferrari haters naturally will scream, that alone would delight me to no end. :-D

Edit: Almost forgot the topic here! That was one of my first thoughts when I saw Fernando was behind Felipe, the second was can Fernando get past him?:lol

[Silent Bob]

Working on a project about 4 years doesn't mean surely it will payoff. Mercedes is successful because they have done it properly. So well done to them.
I don't think battle for the championship was only between RedBull, Ferrari and lotus. Mercedes 2013 car was second best car.
RedBull have done a slightly better job than Mercedes in chassis part despite fighting for championships last years but Renault let them down.


I think if you are lobbying hard for a certain formula it's because you are certain it will benefit you.