2015 Engine

[zike]

Guys, maybe we could use this thread to post news about 2015 engine?

[F1NAC]

Too early

[Stebandelareina]

Are we going to homologate a new one, like renault?

[zike]

Too early

I read somewhere that 2015 engine is allready in deep stages of development, that is why I created this thread

[Ed Harley]

The question IMHO is whether engine manufacturers are allowed to design completely new engine for 2015 or whether the existing homologation allows just minor improvements for 2015.

[zike]

The question IMHO is whether engine manufacturers are allowed to design completely new engine for 2015 or whether the existing homologation allows just minor improvements for 2015.

As far as I know only 8% of the current engine is homologated and cant be changed in 2015......but I may be wrong

[zike]

The question IMHO is whether engine manufacturers are allowed to design completely new engine for 2015 or whether the existing homologation allows just minor improvements for 2015.

As far as I know only 8% of the current engine is homologated and cant be changed in 2015......but I may be wrong

[Nero Horse]

The question IMHO is whether engine manufacturers are allowed to design completely new engine for 2015 or whether the existing homologation allows just minor improvements for 2015.

Here you go...
"At the end of the year the manufacturers will be free to homologate a new engine for 2015 so development is at full speed these days."

[abbottcostello]

Here you go...
Where or who is that quote by?

[Ed Harley]

Thanks for the info.

This hardly reduces costs much if at all. But it allows to try to catch competitors if possible.

[Nero Horse]

Where or who is that quote by?

Pitlanetalk.

[Nero Horse]

Also found this...

Annual F1 power unit homologation

http://i.imgur.com/5JHHTfF.jpg


Here: http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/regulation/file/1-2014%20TECHNICAL%20REGULATIONS%202014-01-23_0.pdf

[Kiwi Nick]

The chart above proves one simple fact...the boys at the FIA are incredible stupid.

[Hornet]

Well I wouldn't entirely blame FIA for that, because the final aim has always been to freeze the engine in order to save cost. And cost saving is an issue that is constantly debated, with the smaller teams being especially vocal about cost reduction.

The gradual freezing of parts is to allow some continuous development until the engine is almost as good as it can be, but not resorting to completely new engine every year because the cost would instead go up if manufacturers are to develop completely new ones every year.

[abbottcostello]

Thanks Nero Horse, Ill have to take a look because when I try to read the FIA regs. it just makes my head spin, the way things are worded.

[Kiwi Nick]

The FIA schedule for PU development raises a barrier to entry that will prevent any new PUs from being introduced and could cause manufacturers whose PUs are lagging behind the competition to drop out. Honda had better get it right out of the box, like Mercedes did, because their development opportunity will be far more limited than the current manufacturers. Manufacturers like Renault and Ferrari will be severely handicapped if they reach 2017 and are still not competitive. If that is the case, where a PU is not on par with the best and the room to develop the engine is reduced, I would expect Renault to drop out. What will Ferrari's options be if they are not competitive and severely limited in development? They can't call up Mercedes and order some PUs. Ferrari's choice would be to be a permanent back marker, or leave F1 in favor of WEC.

Getting the PU right in 2015 seems to me to be very critical. If Ferrari are still behind, it will be very, very ugly for the balance of the formula's 6 years

[hogo]

Getting the PU right in 2015 seems to me to be very critical. If Ferrari are still behind, it will be very, very ugly for the balance of the formula's 6 years
SD was not designing engines, MM won't be designing them either. Annd it's the only change in Ferrari that I am aware off. Also we have less time to get it right this time. So it's VERY likely that we will have poor PU next year as well. I'm just saying not to get your hopes up for 2015.

[Kiwi Nick]

SD was not designing engines, MM won't be designing them either. Annd it's the only change in Ferrari that I am aware off. Also we have less time to get it right this time. So it's VERY likely that we will have poor PU next year as well. I'm just saying not to get your hopes up for 2015.

And after 2015 it gets harder and harder to improve, as more and more of the PU is frozen.

[NickEice]

I have a feeling that the FIA will relax its stance on the PU in the future if the power imbalance remains past this season.

[Hornet]

The FIA schedule for PU development raises a barrier to entry that will prevent any new PUs from being introduced and could cause manufacturers whose PUs are lagging behind the competition to drop out. Honda had better get it right out of the box, like Mercedes did, because their development opportunity will be far more limited than the current manufacturers. Manufacturers like Renault and Ferrari will be severely handicapped if they reach 2017 and are still not competitive. If that is the case, where a PU is not on par with the best and the room to develop the engine is reduced, I would expect Renault to drop out. What will Ferrari's options be if they are not competitive and severely limited in development? They can't call up Mercedes and order some PUs. Ferrari's choice would be to be a permanent back marker, or leave F1 in favor of WEC.

Getting the PU right in 2015 seems to me to be very critical. If Ferrari are still behind, it will be very, very ugly for the balance of the formula's 6 years

Well as things progress, the FIA and the teams will react accordingly. It's not in anyone's interest to have one team dominating forever. The hopes is that all manufacturer will be able to optimize their engine to the point where performance is similar by the time we freeze 95% of the engine. If that doesn't happen, then I believe the FIA will do something to ensure the PU performance is balanced out between all manufacturers, such as allowing the lagging team to make some performance improvements, for example.

We don't know what the approach will be, but we can be sure that the FIA will not freeze the engine in a state such as the current one, where you have one engine dominating and another struggling to not break during a race. Engine freeze is something that will not go away, so the FIA will have to ensure that conditions are appropriate for a freeze of the PU design, and one such condition is to have equal performance.

[Rob]

from Omni Corse...


FOUR ENGINES IN ONE YEAR important are the provisions that have been adopted today in Monaco of Bavaria, the most important in the reduction of the power unit available for each season as a pilot in 2015 will be only four, compared to the current five. The number will be high only if the calendar will have more than 20 Grand Prix calendar. It also changes the penalty: the replacement of a power unit will shooting from the back of the grid and not from the pit lane.


http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/39358/f1-consiglio-mondiale-fia-solo-quattro-power-unit-nel-2015

[Tifoso]

A schematic of a preliminary prototype of the 2015 powerplant has been leaked. It appears to be 20% stronger than the current engine! :-E

http://www.pbs.org/saf/1103/images03/ispool.gif

[hudson77]

I recon two bands would be better lou :-D

[Tifoso]

I recon two bands would be better lou :-D

Hehehehehe.


I'll be here all week. :lou

[Brakefade]

Just allow the teams to develop their engines freely. Because of the fuel flow regulation, eventually they will run out of ways to make more power, and all teams will be equal (power wise) once that happens, freeze the engines.

[Sab_g]

Just allow the teams to develop their engines freely. Because of the fuel flow regulation, eventually they will run out of ways to make more power, and all teams will be equal (power wise) once that happens, freeze the engines.

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[Rob]

The only teams who should be allowed to develope the engines, are Ferrari and Renault.

[Kiwi Nick]

Just allow the teams to develop their engines freely. Because of the fuel flow regulation, eventually they will run out of ways to make more power, and all teams will be equal (power wise) once that happens, freeze the engines.

Finally, somebody who gets how this should have been done in the first place. It took a guy from SoCal, with or without a Cal Poly degree, understand that using physics is the best way to regulate engine design.

Eventually, every engine manufacturer will reach the practical output limit of their design based on the maximum fuel flow. Just like with aerodynamics, the best design will prevail. The FIA don't specify what shape, profile and material the winglets, barge boards, flip ups etc should be. There never has been any sane reason for the FIA to make a rule saying what size an inlet valve must be. The basic engine rules could have been written in 1 sentence, with all of the additional rules about what materials are and are not permitted to be used.

This is how I would have written the rules: The Power Unit (P/U) shall consist of a 1.6 litre internal combustion engine burning 100 RON Octane petrol at a rate not to exceed 100kg/hr, a turbo charge, a motor generator unit to harvest kinetic energy, a motor generator unit to harvest heat energy, a device to store electrical energy harvested by the MGUs, and a control module to regulate the use of energy harvested and expended by the PU.

If the FIA really are interested in energy efficiency and moving automobile design forward, this is the type of formula they should write. Instead, they have essentially designed the PU only allowing a few areas of design for the manufacturers to influence. They are the all-knowing gods of all things automotive. Where is it written that a V-6 is superior to a V-10 or V-8 or V-12? Where is it written that lithium batteries are superior to capacitors? This is the sort of thing I would expect if Stalin were running the FIA.

[Kiwi Nick]

The only teams who should be allowed to develope the engines, are Ferrari and Renault.

Based on their performance in Austria, shouldn't the FIA also be adding weight to Mercedes and Williams, and based on his 5th place finish Alonso should also have some weight added. Not as much as Nico or Lewis, but some. In fact, now that we are a few races into the season, lets add weight to each of the top 10 drivers' cars. Begin by adding 20kg to Nico, 18kg to Lewis, 16kg to Danny and so on until you reach Magnussen who only has 2gk added. Everybody below gets no penalty.

Then you wouldn't have to worry about who was developing their engine properly or not.:thumb

[steelstallions]

When Ferrari were the dominant team, the rest of the field could introduce an all new car let alone improve the engine. Now Mercedes are given a clear advantage and NOBODY can do anything about it. Is this progress? is this the pinnacle of the sport when you know you can put in better machinery BUT ARE NOT ALLOWED TOO. F1 should be renamed, because your stuck racing this year with what you designed the year before. What is the competitiveness in that, what is
PINNACLE AND CUTTING EDGE FORMULA ONE ABOUT THAT?

[wisepie]

When Ferrari were the dominant team, the rest of the field could introduce an all new car let alone improve the engine. Now Mercedes are given a clear advantage and NOBODY can do anything about it. Is this progress? is this the pinnacle of the sport when you know you can put in better machinery BUT ARE NOT ALLOWED TOO. F1 should be renamed, because your stuck racing this year with what you designed the year before. What is the competitiveness in that, what is
PINNACLE AND CUTTING EDGE FORMULA ONE ABOUT THAT?

+1, it's strangling the formula by allowing one team who made a better job pre-season to run away with the championship, it will do nothing for the 'sport' and people will desert it, there are more entertaining things to watch involving four wheels. And it could go on indefinitely with the current restrictions and engine freeze.:furious