Raikkonen has faith Ferrari will deliver winning car in 2015

[vcs316]

Kimi Raikkonen is confident Marco Mattiacci is the right man to return Ferrari to winning ways next season and believes technical director James Allison will deliver a car to his liking.

Raikkonen has made a lacklustre return to the team this year, scoring just 27 points from 11 races and failing to beat team-mate Fernando Alonso on race day. The Ferrari F14 T lacks power and downforce compared to its rivals but the team will have to wait until the winter before it can start to address its power unit's deficiencies, meaning serious gains on Mercedes are unlikely this year.

However, Raikkonen believes Mattiacci, who replaced Stefano Domenicali as team principal in April, is the right man to organise Ferrari's resources into a winning package.

"I have 100% belief in the people at the factory," he said when asked about the team's plans for 2015. "We have the tools and the people to do the job and what we are supposed to do. I'm sure we can be where we should be, hopefully by next year. We have to do a lot of work, but like I said, we have the people and the tools and I don't see a reason why we shouldn't be at the front again, but obviously time will tell.

"With a new team boss [Mattiacci], he didn't have much knowledge of F1 when he came in, but he has a very smart head and I think he's doing good work and good decisions and he can get the best out of people. I think he's the guy that we need."

Raikkonen has struggled more than Alonso with the car this year and says it does not suit his style. But having worked with Ferrari technical director Allison at Lotus over the last two years, he believes he is more likely to get a car that suits him in 2015.

"The team know what I like and their designers are designing a new car [for 2015] and I have 100% belief in the guys in the factory, and with James I should get something that is more to my liking. We have to improve anyhow with the speed and I think we have good people who know what they should do. This year overall - not just for me - it's been pretty bad for the team, so there's a lot of work to do and I'm sure we have the tools to turn it around and be stronger next year."

© ESPN Sports Media Ltd.

[vcs316]

Romain Grosjean says he is not entirely surprised to see his ex-team-mate Kimi Raikkonen struggling this year and believes it is down to the latest generation Pirelli tyres.

Raikkonen has struggled so far this year after two stellar seasons alongside Grosjean at Lotus in 2012 and 2013. Grosjean believes this year's tyres - which feature harder compounds than in recent seasons - do not offer Raikkonen the front-end grip he desires.

"I know what he doesn't like and I think this year's tyres don't suit him very well," he said. "He needs a good front end and there tyres don't give him that feeling. It's hard to explain but it just changes a little bit your confidence."

Asked to compare his relationship with Raikkonen and his relationship with his current team-mate Pastor Malonado, Grosjean said: "It's fairly different. Pastor is a nice guy and a father so we can speak about different things off track, which I didn't have with Kimi because we didn't have any common points on that one.

"The work relationship is pretty similar, even though I speak a little bit more with Pastor in the briefings than I did with Kimi. Kimi was very interesting to have as a team-mate because in that car he was performing very well and doing a very good job, so it was nice to have him on board."

© ESPN Sports Media Ltd.

[IulianFerrari]

"They are very different (Pastor and Kimi), Pastor is a nice guy..." that cracked me up. But it is an interesting point Romain makes with the front end and Pirelli tyres this year.

[Stormy]

That is the problem with Kimi, he just cant adjust to a car that is not of his liking.

[Katu]

i'm not sure i have faith Kimi will deliver in 2015....

[Kingdom Hearts]

so kimi need the tyres to his liking too, so what will happen if next year tyres are the same or worse/harder?.

[Stormy]

so kimi need the tyres to his liking too, so what will happen if next year tyres are the same or worse/harder?.
I hope he will adjust, its still Kimi we are talking about.
Of course he is not Alonso but still...

[Kristof_F40]

If Kimi is in a happy place, he's top class, if he isn't... We all know..

[Brembo]

"They are very different (Pastor and Kimi), Pastor is a nice guy..." that cracked me up. But it is an interesting point Romain makes with the front end and Pirelli tyres this year.

As nice a guy as Pastor is he hasn't scored a point in a full year neither for Willims or Lotus. This is the first time since 2006 Kimi didn't get on the podium in Hungary. It has to bother him big time.

[Stormsearcher]

i'm not sure i have faith Kimi will deliver in 2015....

You never know man. I think if he makes peace with his machinery, he can be really fast.
its an entirely different issue if he wants to be.

If the 2015 car is fast and suits both drivers.. the battle between them is going to be fantastic. I would still bet on Alonso coming out on top by the end of the year though, but it would mean solid WCC points too.
This season cant be over soon enough. :-??

[Ed Harley]

You never know man. I think if he makes peace with his machinery, he can be really fast.
its an entirely different issue if he wants to be.
Why wouldn't he want to be?

[Stormsearcher]

Ask him.
Hes a moody kinda guy or so it seems/or made to appear. Sometimes he is so lackluster, makes you ask if he really wants to be on that race track at all. Hence!

[Ed Harley]

Perhaps if he would talk nonsense more or wave his hands more while talking nonsense would that make you happy?

[Katu]

Perhaps if he shows results, that would make a lot of us happy

[Ed Harley]

I don't think he is paid to make you happy. But as long as Ferrari keep paying him he must be doing something that makes them happy.

[Katu]

he certainly isn't being paid to make me happy, because so far he hasn't. however i think i should point out that Ferrai paid him to leave which made them happy too...

[Ed Harley]

"We are lucky to have two great champions, who are working with the whole team to get back to being competitive again," he told Ferrari's website. "Of course, as is the case every summer, there is unfounded gossip about alleged problems with senseless rumours bandied about, such as the ones relating to Alonso's contract or those of drivers' salaries.

"We know that the summer heat always produces silly stories. Our drivers must now relax in order to return in top form. The season is still long and we need Fernando and Kimi to be in great shape. And on the subject of Kimi, I wish him all the best as he is soon to become a dad."

At least somebody has faith in him and sees the big picture.

[Kiwi Nick]

Ed, I agree. And I have to think that Kimi played a part in the development of last years Lotus. I believe that he and Allison may have a good relationship. Let's hope so.

[Katu]

i think it has been said here multiple times that drivers do not develop cars, they drive it.

[Kiwi Nick]

i think it has been said here multiple times that drivers do not develop cars, they drive it.

It has also been said here multiple times that Schumi was great at helping develop cars. de La Rosa is paid to help develop. Feedback to the engineers from the drivers helps develop the car. If you think that a driver's feedback is not useful in the development of the car I cannot help you.

[Brembo]

It has also been said here multiple times that Schumi was great at helping develop cars. de La Rosa is paid to help develop. Feedback to the engineers from the drivers helps develop the car. If you think that a driver's feedback is not useful in the development of the car I cannot help you.
I agree with Katu here. MS was not much help at Merc. Lewis' car with all his feedback. Vettel and his car this year. Kimi for sure has a list after each race.
All of them champion drivers for sure . As far as engineering expertise in developing the cars, so far this year there still not much help. They get hired and paid to drive. I can't imagine a team engineer getting in one of these drivers cars and getting points for the team. If Ferrari does in fact pay Alonso $50 million to stay on, it will be for his fenominal driving in spite of the engineers short commings so far. Not to say there not trying.

[Stormsearcher]

Perhaps if he would talk nonsense more or wave his hands more while talking nonsense would that make you happy?

Was there need to get aggressive?

And to answer your question, am happy enough that Fernando is showing how you can get points even with this car! You join the dots. ;-)

[Hornet]

It has also been said here multiple times that Schumi was great at helping develop cars. de La Rosa is paid to help develop. Feedback to the engineers from the drivers helps develop the car. If you think that a driver's feedback is not useful in the development of the car I cannot help you.

You have no idea the actual process that goes on unless you have been directly involve in any actual development work.

Kimi isn't a magical driver in car development and he isn't going to magically make the car go faster.

[Ed Harley]

There are no magical drivers, they are all humans.

Why do the team need separate test drivers in the first place - let alone three of them - nowadays? Wouldn't it be better to test with the race drivers instead and get better feedback from them directly?

[Stormy]

You have no idea the actual process that goes on unless you have been directly involve in any actual development work.

Kimi isn't a magical driver in car development and he isn't going to magically make the car go faster.
True that, but its a fact that Kimi is underperforming in the car as it is.

[Hornet]

There are no magical drivers, they are all humans.

Why do the team need separate test drivers in the first place - let alone three of them - nowadays? Wouldn't it be better to test with the race drivers instead and get better feedback from them directly?

Perhaps because any experience driver is able to give equally valuable feedback? People make it out like it's a special talent. With all the modern telemetry we have today, sometimes the driver is the one asking the pit wall for certain info instead as we've seen in races. The role of driver's feedback diminishes as the car gets more technical in modern times.

I'm sure even when Bianchi tested the car, the engineers were able to gather all the info they needed, otherwise the team wouldn't have put him in the car.


True that, but its a fact that Kimi is underperforming in the car as it is.
Only Kimi and the team knows what he is struggling with. But the point is that, it's not the driver's role to develop the car. When Schumi was dominating, there were many people behind the scene who contributed to that too. This is why Rory Bryne was hailed as one of the best designer, this is why Ross Brawn is such a huge news in F1. Schumi was the best of his generation, but the results wasn't down to him alone. Schumi's role is in driving the car and making the best of it, but it's the others in the team who gave him a winning car.

[Ed Harley]

Considering how the F14T turned out I would suggest that the team should get other test drivers or different car development methods.

[Ed Harley]

Driver is one part of the team which develops the car. He is the one who confirms how what the engineers see in the data translates in actual world ie. how the car behaves/handles on track or not.

[Stormy]

Only Kimi and the team knows what he is struggling with. But the point is that, it's not the driver's role to develop the car. When Schumi was dominating, there were many people behind the scene who contributed to that too. This is why Rory Bryne was hailed as one of the best designer, this is why Ross Brawn is such a huge news in F1. Schumi was the best of his generation, but the results wasn't down to him alone. Schumi's role is in driving the car and making the best of it, but it's the others in the team who gave him a winning car.
I understand, but im going to say again, Kimi is underperforming in the car as it is. lol.
Its clear that Kimi is struggling with some aspect of the car, but Alonso on the other case is squeezing the maximum, so its clear that Kimi can do better, we all know Kimi and what he has achived, he is a great WC and i know he can do better if we give him the right car with a setup of his liking, but right now he is underperforming and cant get used to the car.

[Brembo]

The car is underperforming with Kimi sitting in the drivers seat, IMO doing what he can with what the tech. folks give him. What would be to Kimi's liking is a better set up for the guy who drives the car. Him! Right now the car is what's underperforming and throw in the tech. crew. The first time since 2006, no podium for Kimi in Hungary. It ain't his fault.

[KimiBot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCasYJnZ0oQ

[KimiBot]

Maranello, 13th November – Kimi Räikkönen returned to Maranello immediately after the Brazilian Grand Prix to begin preparations with the team for the final race of the season and testing for 2015 in the days directly after it. The Finn first met with Team Principal Marco Mattiacci and Technical Director James Allison to discuss about the new car and the intense work that the Scuderia Ferrari needs to tackle in the run-up to next season. Kimi and his engineers also began preparations for the Abu Dhabi race by analysing the existing team data on the track as well as new information collected during simulator tests carried out by both himself and Pedro de la Rosa.

After these meetings, Kimi went to the Fiorano track where a group of journalists was enjoying a special F12berlinetta driving day, and had a bit of fun giving the experts from the world’s leading motoring titles some instruction. Räikkönen really pushed the car to the limit, demonstrating its enormous potential to the astonished journalists who also had the privilege of doing a few laps beside him. This video provides spectacular footage of Kimi at the wheel of the F12berlinetta flanked by his very special passengers.

http://formula1.ferrari.com/news/briefing-spectacular-display-kimi

[Ste]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCasYJnZ0oQ
I love the way Kimi says about two words and just goes and rags it.

"Hello". Silence.

[mirafiori]

Brilliant thanks for sharing the video.

[ALO]

Yeah next year we'll have two drivers that don't do well if cars are not to their liking. .good god help us...lol

[eddie]

I love the way Kimi says about two words and just goes and rags it.

"Hello". Silence.

Lol, I was waiting for Kimi to say "shut up, I am driving".... Lol :-)

[ferrari4life]

I really doubt Ferrari will turn things around so quickly. But if you think about it. Kimi beat Alonso who had a better car in 2007. So Forza Ferrari!! lets hope our opponents self destruct once again.

[Ed Harley]

I love the way Kimi says about two words and just goes and rags it.

"Hello". Silence.
That's plenty. A brief nod is often enough.

[Nova]

Cool vid, thks for putting that up. Cant wait to see the new car.

[Silent Bob]

i think it has been said here multiple times that drivers do not develop cars, they drive it.


"You should get what you deserve. I feel I bring a lot to a team, not just in terms of results, but in terms of marketing within a team and working with sponsors, and how I can help develop a car.

From Jenson Button's mouth. Of course drivers help develop a car. When a car is built and drives like crap who do the engineers rely on to give them a development path? It's been said many times that some driver's work better with the engineers than others, and give better feed back. Engineers build the cars but driver's will fine tune them. a lot of the development on the Ferrari lately has been to try to fix the front end issues that Kimi has complained about. If a car has a fundamental flaw like low front end grip, then it's up to the driver to expose that flaw and the engineers to fix it.

[Katu]

too bad we have such incredible driver who knows how to handle those fundamental flws better than the ohter...

[Silent Bob]

too bad we have such incredible driver who knows how to handle those fundamental flws better than the ohter...

A problem ignored can quickly become a problem too large to fix. Maybe one driver is willing to fix the flaw and the other is willing to drive around it. Which is better?

[Katu]

the one who has scored most points so far

[Nova]

I dont think the thread is about which driver you like better.
If that gets started up yet again, it will get out of hand and
we'll have another locked thread.

[Katu]

i still want to argue on subject that driver is the car developer. but we'll probably see next year how mr i cannot drive anything that isn't to my likings can develop a car

[AfterLife]

I believe behind a competitive car, there is competitive technical team. Driver input is important but not that much in terms of producing a competitive car. It is down to our technical team to produce a competitive car not drivers.

[Tony]

Can we stop with the Kimi vs Alonso thing, it's starting to spread through multiple threads now...

[tpe]

I don't like the fact that he is underperforming. On the other hand, if the car is not of his liking, I don't see how he could perfofm.

[Nova]

Can we stop with the Kimi vs Alonso thing, it's starting to spread through multiple threads now...

:thumb

[Winter]

too bad we have such incredible driver who knows how to handle those fundamental flws better than the ohter...

Best way to handle those flaws is to spot them, give feedback and let engineers get rid of them.

[Winter]

the one who has scored most points so far

Short sighted..

[Katu]

Short sighted..

for past almost 5 years, very short sighted indeed...

[Senna4Ever]

A problem ignored can quickly become a problem too large to fix. Maybe one driver is willing to fix the flaw and the other is willing to drive around it.

:haha:

of course ... and no one listen to Vettel to solve the issues at RedBull ...

so the issue for 5 years of disappointment was a driver who was willing to drive around the ...
I could remember the crowd here fell completely in rage when Alonso sometimes criticised the development: you can't to that in public ... do you know how often he did behind closed doors?

Some start spinning really complete dumb ideas in the last couple of weeks ...

We should just pull up the older threads where we were sure that we will roll up the field from behind come times when the engine matters again ... Somehow someone must have given again wrong feedback or was willing to drive around it

[KimiBot]

Another short video Kimi driving F12.

http://www.autoblog.it/post/380332/ferrari-f12berlinetta-con-kimi-raikkonen-in-video

[Winter]

for past almost 5 years, very short sighted indeed...

If the goal is that Alonso beats his team mates, no not short sighted at all.

[diesel08]

Optimism overflowing, in recent years there have been many words and few facts. This season Kimi has outdone itself with optimistic statements. Waiting for the 2015 car on the track. After that we draw conclusions.

[Katu]

If the goal is that Alonso beats his team mates, no not short sighted at all.
just exactly why Ferrari wants to replace Alonso then?

[AfterLife]

If the goal is that Alonso beats his team mates, no not short sighted at all.

Source?
Beating teammate is the very first step to become champion. You can't lose to your teammate and become a champion.

[Winter]

just exactly why Ferrari wants to replace Alonso then?


If it was a Ferraris choice, it would've been to make room for Vettel, who has had some sort of pre-contract with Ferrari for a while now, according always reliable F1 rumors.

And maybe they want to develop the car to a direction that suits better to Kimi and Vettel than Fernando.

[Winter]

Source?
Beating teammate is the very first step to become champion. You can't lose to your teammate and become a champion.

There has to be source for a opinion? I'd like to give it, but I like the anonymity more :lol

[Hornet]

What a shock, Kimi fans blaming Ferrari for intentionally making Alonso faster. I'm sure that's what Ferrari's aim is in this sport. Make Alonso better than his team mate, world titles be damned.

[Winter]

What a shock, Kimi fans blaming Ferrari for intentionally making Alonso faster. I'm sure that's what Ferrari's aim is in this sport. Make Alonso better than his team mate, world titles be damned.

That is quite the opposite what I meant. You don't have to be shocked anymore..

[vecchiasignora]

What a shock, Kimi fans blaming Ferrari for intentionally making Alonso faster. I'm sure that's what Ferrari's aim is in this sport. Make Alonso better than his team mate, world titles be damned.


Thats Alonso for you, if any team signs fernando alonso..that team should expect alonso wants team orders for his benefit.
Thats how alonso operated, and why he fell out with hamilton / mclaren before...

He is a cancer, period. Let him go elsewhere, i feel with kimi/vettel we can be as good as we were under kimi/massa ( 1 title, and 1 title lost on the last seconds).
no team orders anymore.

[Winter]

i feel with kimi/vettel we can be as good as we were under kimi/massa ( 1 title, and 1 title lost on the last seconds).
no team orders anymore.

I agree 110% with this part,

[Alonsomaniac]

Well, one thing is for sure, it will be Kimi who has to do it because the moment Vettel gets a fast teammate, he's gone.

[Alonsomaniac]

Thats Alonso for you, if any team signs fernando alonso..that team should expect alonso wants team orders for his benefit.
Thats how alonso operated, and why he fell out with hamilton / mclaren before...

He is a cancer, period. Let him go elsewhere, i feel with kimi/vettel we can be as good as we were under kimi/massa ( 1 title, and 1 title lost on the last seconds).
no team orders anymore.

One tiny little problem we may face: Alonso is way faster than Kimi and Massa. Could be quite annoying if he drives for another team than red.

[Brembo]

One tiny little problem we may face: Alonso is way faster than Kimi and Massa. Could be quite annoying if he drives for another team than red.

Very well said! And it could be especially annoying if it's really true that Ferrari let red bull dump their #2 driver on us. Again "if" it's true I hope Ferrari pays Vettel less than RB is paying their top performer Ricciardo.

[eddie]

One tiny little problem we may face: Alonso is way faster than Kimi and Massa. Could be quite annoying if he drives for another team than red.

Yes, very annoying. Hopefully, we build a good red car from the get go and then Alonso "factor" wouldn't be a problem.

[Rob]

Ok people, this getiting silly now. Fernando going/gone, bye bye, thankyou and sorry. But we have new drive coming in, possible 4 time WDC, im not big fan of his but will love him and support him as i do ALL Ferrari drivers. We got new dawn new era starting next year, new design team, new TP, maybe hard next year, maybe not. But its a new start, just like 1996.

[Sriharsha]

Ok people, this getiting silly now. Fernando going/gone, bye bye, thankyou and sorry. But we have new drive coming in, possible 4 time WDC, im not big fan of his but will love him and support him as i do ALL Ferrari drivers. We got new dawn new era starting next year, new design team, new TP, maybe hard next year, maybe not. But its a new start, just like 1996.
Pretty much this, getting tired of watching forums only to see the love/hate more and more.
Yes Alonso is by far best but what ever happened he was going to leave the team to our arch rival Mclaren and the driver who was younger and already won more championships (not in his league in lot of people opinion) is going to replace him. As Rob said may be hard for us to beat best driver in f1 in an equal car or less than optimized car will be hard but we pray to get better. For all of us we want Ferrari to back on TOP and no matter who drives it.
I only hope Vettel(if he comes to us as per media reports) shows the same passion as his idol or mentor Schumacher did. That will only inspire our drivers in my view

[Nova]

One tiny little problem we may face: Alonso is way faster than Kimi and Massa. Could be quite annoying if he drives for another team than red.

Well, we shall see on that one...:-D

[pelinjr]

Pretty much this, getting tired of watching forums only to see the love/hate more and more.
Yes Alonso is by far best but what ever happened he was going to leave the team to our arch rival Mclaren and the driver who was younger and already won more championships (not in his league in lot of people opinion) is going to replace him. As Rob said may be hard for us to beat best driver in f1 in an equal car or less than optimized car will be hard but we pray to get better. For all of us we want Ferrari to back on TOP and no matter who drives it.
I only hope Vettel(if he comes to us as per media reports) shows the same passion as his idol or mentor Schumacher did. That will only inspire our drivers in my view

same passion that MS showed when retired from F!/Ferrari to go and join Mercedes mmm

[pelinjr]

Let's be honest, there isn't romanticsm left in F1 , only some fans.

[Sriharsha]

same passion that MS showed when retired from F!/Ferrari to go and join Mercedes mmm
the last time i checked i was on Ferrari forum not a merc forum

[Katu]

the last time i checked i was on Ferrari forum not a merc forum

that means we should not talk about Schumi showing his huge loyality by choosing to drive for rivals?

[Sriharsha]

that means we should not talk about Schumi showing his huge loyality by choosing to drive for rivals?


I only hope Vettel(if he comes to us as per media reports) shows the same passion as his idol or mentor Schumacher did. That will only inspire our drivers in my view
I meant to say that If Vettel shows the passion shown my MS showed when he was at Ferrari. I dont want this other team debate to drag on by myself

[Hornet]

Thats Alonso for you, if any team signs fernando alonso..that team should expect alonso wants team orders for his benefit.
Thats how alonso operated, and why he fell out with hamilton / mclaren before...

He is a cancer, period. Let him go elsewhere, i feel with kimi/vettel we can be as good as we were under kimi/massa ( 1 title, and 1 title lost on the last seconds).
no team orders anymore.

In 2007 Brazilian GP, Massa was ahead of Kimi when he was asked to let Kimi through. In 2008 at the same race, Kimi let Massa through. And you say there's no team orders.

But if you truly believe Ferrari favored Alonso and was the reason for Kimi trashing, then maybe you should have wanted to see your Vettel joining other team, rather than joining this dirty Ferrari who only focus on Alonso :lou

[diesel08]

In 2007 Brazilian GP, Massa was ahead of Kimi when he was asked to let Kimi through. In 2008 at the same race, Kimi let Massa through. And you say there's no team orders.

But if you truly believe Ferrari favored Alonso and was the reason for Kimi trashing, then maybe you should have wanted to see your Vettel joining other team, rather than joining this dirty Ferrari who only focus on Alonso :lou


please ignore silly posts :-ZZ

[Senna4Ever]

Let's be honest, there isn't romanticsm left in F1 , only some fans.

:thumb ... unfortunately you're right, nearly the same everywhere in professional sport
just look soccer / football etc. etc. same story ... only a few exceptions but the big part is as it is ...

[pelinjr]

I meant to say that If Vettel shows the passion shown my MS showed when he was at Ferrari. I dont want this other team debate to drag on by myself

Are you seriously saying that FA hasn;t been driving passionately, if anything, for us???

[Sriharsha]

Are you seriously saying that FA hasn;t been driving passionately, if anything, for us???
Did i mentioned any thing like that. I said Vettel shows the same passion as his IDOL what does that has to do any thing with Alonso. Vettel repeatedly said MS was his idol. don't try to twist words to get some thing where nothing was mentioned

[Katu]

i've lost it somewhere, why are we talking about Vettel in Räikkönen's thread?

[bondilad]

i've lost it somewhere, why are we talking about Vettel in Räikkönen's thread?

Unfortunately every thread is turning out to be about drivers now:Hmm

[Silent Bob]

:haha:

of course ... and no one listen to Vettel to solve the issues at RedBull ...

so the issue for 5 years of disappointment was a driver who was willing to drive around the ...
I could remember the crowd here fell completely in rage when Alonso sometimes criticised the development: you can't to that in public ... do you know how often he did behind closed doors?

Some start spinning really complete dumb ideas in the last couple of weeks ...

We should just pull up the older threads where we were sure that we will roll up the field from behind come times when the engine matters again ... Somehow someone must have given again wrong feedback or was willing to drive around it


No I don't. Maybe he said it once maybe he said it a million times. But what I do hear is Kimi and Ferrari engineers say they are working on making the car easier to drive based on Kimi's feedback. Am I slamming Alonso.. no. So why be so shortsighted as to proclaim that your driver is easily outdriving the other driver and you're content. Myself, a Ferrari supporter, am happy that fixes are being made to the car to make it better... hopefully for both drivers. Maybe a different driver's perspective will be a good thing and our cars, both of them, will be competitive from next year on, regardless of who drives for us, as long as it's a red car across the line first.

[Kiwi Nick]

No I don't. Maybe he said it once maybe he said it a million times. But what I do hear is Kimi and Ferrari engineers say they are working on making the car easier to drive based on Kimi's feedback. Am I slamming Alonso.. no. So why be so shortsighted as to proclaim that your driver is easily outdriving the other driver and you're content. Myself, a Ferrari supporter, am happy that fixes are being made to the car to make it better... hopefully for both drivers. Maybe a different driver's perspective will be a good thing and our cars, both of them, will be competitive from next year on, regardless of who drives for us, as long as it's a red car across the line first.

Perhaps a driver who is leaving the team has little to no interest in providing feedback. And, the engineers may not be interested in his feedback.

[Ed Harley]

And should the 2015 car turn out to be really good you may get to support him wholeheartedly in 2016, too.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/kimi-raeikkoenen-auf-fehlersuche-streckenlayout-und-reifentyp-sind-schuld-8867800.html

[Alonsomaniac]

No I don't. Maybe he said it once maybe he said it a million times. But what I do hear is Kimi and Ferrari engineers say they are working on making the car easier to drive based on Kimi's feedback. Am I slamming Alonso.. no. So why be so shortsighted as to proclaim that your driver is easily outdriving the other driver and you're content. Myself, a Ferrari supporter, am happy that fixes are being made to the car to make it better... hopefully for both drivers. Maybe a different driver's perspective will be a good thing and our cars, both of them, will be competitive from next year on, regardless of who drives for us, as long as it's a red car across the line first.

If you were paying enough attention, yoou would have known that Ferrari has stated more than once that both Kimi and Fernando were experiencing the same problems with the car, that their complaints were the same but that Fernando apparently has found a way to drive the car more or less around the problems, something Kimi could not because he has a different style of driving.

[scuderia_nano]

If you were paying enough attention, yoou would have known that Ferrari has stated more than once that both Kimi and Fernando were experiencing the same problems with the car, that their complaints were the same but that Fernando apparently has found a way to drive the car more or less around the problems, something Kimi could not because he has a different style of driving.

Lol. Doesn't the points table prove it.

[Silent Bob]

If you were paying enough attention, yoou would have known that Ferrari has stated more than once that both Kimi and Fernando were experiencing the same problems with the car, that their complaints were the same but that Fernando apparently has found a way to drive the car more or less around the problems, something Kimi could not because he has a different style of driving.

Well you just proved my point. One driver is willing to drive around a problem, the other is trying to fix it. I'm not trying to bash Alonso or protect Kimi, just stating that their may be some good coming out of this. If kimi can give the engineers a direction to fix the car, it will benefit BOTH drivers. What's so hard to understand?

[Silent Bob]

Lol. Doesn't the points table prove it.

The points table proves that Alonso can drive the F14T better than Kimi can. Might be next years car suits Kimi and Vettel (if he's our next driver) and they'll be quicker. I'm hoping a new direction in car design will make us more competitive.

[Kiwi Nick]

The points table proves that Alonso can drive the F14T better than Kimi can. Might be next years car suits Kimi and Vettel (if he's our next driver) and they'll be quicker. I'm hoping a new direction in car design will make us more competitive.

+1

[Nova]

Reading threads that go off topic for 6 pages is like going to the dentist...:pray

[Winter]

The points table proves that Alonso can drive the F14T better than Kimi can. Might be next years car suits Kimi and Vettel (if he's our next driver) and they'll be quicker. I'm hoping a new direction in car design will make us more competitive.

I agree, but at the moment it's not enough to make the car more suitable for Kimi. Even without his this seasons problems with front end/ understeer, he wouldn't be where he, us and Ferrari would like him to be. At best, he would be more or less where Alonso is I think.

The cap to Merc engines has to be smaller in next season.

[Alonsomaniac]

Well you just proved my point. One driver is willing to drive around a problem, the other is trying to fix it. I'm not trying to bash Alonso or protect Kimi, just stating that their may be some good coming out of this. If kimi can give the engineers a direction to fix the car, it will benefit BOTH drivers. What's so hard to understand?

No, BOTH drivers wanted it to be fixed ofcourse and BOTH gave their input. BOTH wanted a better car, no doubt about that. But as long is it was not fixed, Fernando managed to find a way to drive the car while Kimi had much less success in doing that. Do you really think Fernando was satisfied with a car he could only get to 5th or 6th place?
What's so hard to understand about that?

[AfterLife]

No, BOTH drivers wanted it to be fixed ofcourse and BOTH gave their input. BOTH wanted a better car, no doubt about that. But as long is it was not fixed, Fernando managed to find a way to drive the car while Kimi had much less success in doing that. Do you really think Fernando was satisfied with a car he could only get to 5th or 6th place?
What's so hard to understand about that?

Well said :thumb

[Winter]

No, BOTH drivers wanted it to be fixed ofcourse and BOTH gave their input. BOTH wanted a better car, no doubt about that. But as long is it was not fixed, Fernando managed to find a way to drive the car while Kimi had much less success in doing that. Do you really think Fernando was satisfied with a car he could only get to 5th or 6th place?
What's so hard to understand about that?

Off course the car has not been good enough for either of them, but Kimi has struggled with understeer almost whole season now.

I've not heard Alonso complaining about issues with front end. As far as I know he prefers little under steer. Most complains I've heard from Alonso has been about lack of power.

A good car would be balanced car, which could be made to be little under or over steering with a set up work. Unfortunately F14T is not a car like that. As Allison said, both drivers has been giving similar feedback, he has also said that Kimi has issues with front end/ under steering which can't be solved during this season.

The car is bad for both, but even worse for Kimi, just my thought don't ask sources :-)

[ManFromMilan]

No, BOTH drivers wanted it to be fixed ofcourse and BOTH gave their input. BOTH wanted a better car, no doubt about that. But as long is it was not fixed, Fernando managed to find a way to drive the car while Kimi had much less success in doing that. Do you really think Fernando was satisfied with a car he could only get to 5th or 6th place?
What's so hard to understand about that?



:thumb

[KimiBot]

Abu Dhabi GP Preview – Plenty to fight for
http://formula1.ferrari.com/video/abu-dhabi-gp-preview-plenty-fight

[Katu]

Off course the car has not been good enough for either of them, but Kimi has struggled with understeer almost whole season now.

I've not heard Alonso complaining about issues with front end. As far as I know he prefers little under steer. Most complains I've heard from Alonso has been about lack of power.


maybe you haven't heard Fernando complaing so much, because every time he says something negative about the car, he gets crucified. oh and if you do not have sources, how you know Fernando prefers understeer?

[Ed Harley]

Drivers preferences regarding the handling of a car has been discussed and analyzed by several experts over the years and not one of them has come up with a comment which has "Alonso" and "oversteer" in same sentence, quite the opposite.

[Katu]

has Fernando himself ever stated that? i do not give a damn what somekind of experts say

[Ed Harley]

Indeed, what do experts know.

[FFFerrari]

has Fernando himself ever stated that? i do not give a damn what somekind of experts say

He has told it at least a few times in SKY TV interviews that he prefers understeer to oversteer, but ideally the car should be neutral.

[Katu]

Indeed, what do experts know.

you say experts, i'm (armchair) expert, does that mean my opinion counts really?

[Ed Harley]

I really don't know what your level of expertise about armchairs is.

[Kiwi Nick]

oh and if you do not have sources, how you know Fernando prefers understeer?

All you have to do is watch his in car video. He pushes the front end into corners in a style very different than 90% of the drivers in F1. Of course, you would need to be able to recognize what he is doing when you see it.

[Winter]

maybe you haven't heard Fernando complaing so much, because every time he says something negative about the car, he gets crucified. oh and if you do not have sources, how you know Fernando prefers understeer?

"The car is bad for both, but even worse for Kimi" That was the part without sources and only my opinion. And it also was the part you didn't bother to quote :-)

[Nova]

I really don't know what your level of expertise about armchairs is.

Whats an "arm"chair?

[KimiBot]

http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles2/a96976_a603_1-ferrari-chair.jpg

[AfterLife]

http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles2/a96976_a603_1-ferrari-chair.jpg

That is lounge.

[AfterLife]

Whats an "arm"chair?

http://www.trayler.com/files/images/KastenArmChair_web.jpg

I am not sure if you really want the meaning but:

armchair experts are some people who talks about something from their home cozy armchair without worrying if they are right or wrong.

[Silent Bob]

No, BOTH drivers wanted it to be fixed ofcourse and BOTH gave their input. BOTH wanted a better car, no doubt about that. But as long is it was not fixed, Fernando managed to find a way to drive the car while Kimi had much less success in doing that. Do you really think Fernando was satisfied with a car he could only get to 5th or 6th place?
What's so hard to understand about that?

It's hard to understand that you're so blinded for your love of your favourite driver that you don't get what people are saying. Maybe following Kimi's recommendations will make the car faster.. is this bad? Maybe if Kimi gives the engineers a new development path BOTH drivers will be quicker.
Maybe it's time to step back and understand what you're reading... not every post is a hit against your idol. A quicker car will benefit the whole team.

[Silent Bob]

maybe you haven't heard Fernando complaing so much, because every time he says something negative about the car, he gets crucified. oh and if you do not have sources, how you know Fernando prefers understeer?

I think it's pretty much common knowledge,. just like most know that Kimi prefers more oversteer, which means a very responsive front end (just in case).



has Fernando himself ever stated that? i do not give a damn what somekind of experts say


Well then maybe it's just senseless for anyone to post an opinion other than the one you believe in.

[Silent Bob]

I really don't know what your level of expertise about armchairs is.

Class. :lol Got coffee all over my desk.

[Ed Harley]

Sorry about that. :-D

[Katu]

I think it's pretty much common knowledge,. just like most know that Kimi prefers more oversteer, which means a very responsive front end (just in case).



common knowledge is also that one shouldn't try to go down the water drain, yet they still do it. common knowledge proves nothing
http://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/468407/Teenage-girl-trapped-in-storm-drain-after-trying-to-retrieve-iPhone

[Alonsomaniac]

It's hard to understand that you're so blinded for your love of your favourite driver that you don't get what people are saying. Maybe following Kimi's recommendations will make the car faster.. is this bad? Maybe if Kimi gives the engineers a new development path BOTH drivers will be quicker.
Maybe it's time to step back and understand what you're reading... not every post is a hit against your idol. A quicker car will benefit the whole team.

First of all Alonso is not my idol. I am a Ferrarifan who haappens to have Fernando as a favourite driver. I get what people are saying but I prefer to listen to what Ferrari, Fernando and Kimi are saying.
You say following Kimi's recommendations might make the car quicker. Well, he has had a whole season to do that, but it did not happen. Neither did Fernando's, the car just was not good. So why would this suddenly change when Fernando leaves? Do you think Kimi then will suddenly see the light?

[Silent Bob]

First of all Alonso is not my idol. I am a Ferrarifan who haappens to have Fernando as a favourite driver. I get what people are saying but I prefer to listen to what Ferrari, Fernando and Kimi are saying.
You say following Kimi's recommendations might make the car quicker. Well, he has had a whole season to do that, but it did not happen. Neither did Fernando's, the car just was not good. So why would this suddenly change when Fernando leaves? Do you think Kimi then will suddenly see the light?


No. I don't think Kimi has finally seen the light, but he has worked with Allison before so maybe they can give us a decent car next year. Like I said, it's not a knock against Alonso if someone can give insight on how to make something better.
As a Ferrari fan first and foremost..why are you getting all defensive when I suggest that a new path might be a good thing. The last few years have shown us that staying with the current philosophy hasn't worked.

[Katu]

well current years' philosophy has been - sack everyone

[Alonsomaniac]

No. I don't think Kimi has finally seen the light, but he has worked with Allison before so maybe they can give us a decent car next year. Like I said, it's not a knock against Alonso if someone can give insight on how to make something better.
As a Ferrari fan first and foremost..why are you getting all defensive when I suggest that a new path might be a good thing. The last few years have shown us that staying with the current philosophy hasn't worked.

That the current philosophy hasn't worked is clear. Only I think it's not a drivers problem. I think the cause lies much deeper, in the whole developmentphilosophy within Ferrari. That is something drivers can't solve. We both know that Fernando and Kimi are great drivers, Fernando even considered the best of the grid by many. And still these two experienced drivers could not make the change....they pinpointed what the problems were, but Ferrari was not able to respond to that in an adequate way.
The only luck Ferrari had was that Fernando could more or less adapt himself to the car as it was, otherwise both drivers would have had a terrible season. That he is able to do that also meant the end of Massa with Ferrari, because they simply could not believe it was the car. Now Kimi has shown that it was not a problem with Massa, he has the same misery......so the problem is the car, not the drivers.
You can change the drivers line-up now, but as long as nothing basicly changes in the development area, the problem will not go away.
Besides that, ever since the testban, drivers influence on the development has become much smaller, there simply is no time. The car has to be good from the beginning.
What we saw this year were two unhappy drivers, one who found a way to drive the car and one who didn't. Does that mean Fernando is so much faster than Kimi? No, of course he isn't under normal circumstances, only in this car he is.
Now we think Vettel will come alongside Kimi. Will this change anything? I'm afraid it is again up to the developmentdepartment to build a driveable car, because otherwise next season could be even worse. Because we all know Vettel is, unlike Fernando, not a man who can drive a car that has fundamental problems.
So that's why I think Fernando and Ferrari parting ways is a very bad idea, at least for Ferrari.

[Nova]

I think Ferrari will bounce back yet again, its in their history and dna. They will rise,
irregardless of who is driving. N I cant wait. :ferrarifl:pass:ferrarifl

[Winter]

That the current philosophy hasn't worked is clear. Only I think it's not a drivers problem. I think the cause lies much deeper, in the whole developmentphilosophy within Ferrari. That is something drivers can't solve. We both know that Fernando and Kimi are great drivers, Fernando even considered the best of the grid by many. And still these two experienced drivers could not make the change....they pinpointed what the problems were, but Ferrari was not able to respond to that in an adequate way.
The only luck Ferrari had was that Fernando could more or less adapt himself to the car as it was, otherwise both drivers would have had a terrible season. That he is able to do that also meant the end of Massa with Ferrari, because they simply could not believe it was the car. Now Kimi has shown that it was not a problem with Massa, he has the same misery......so the problem is the car, not the drivers.
You can change the drivers line-up now, but as long as nothing basicly changes in the development area, the problem will not go away.
Besides that, ever since the testban, drivers influence on the development has become much smaller, there simply is no time. The car has to be good from the beginning.
What we saw this year were two unhappy drivers, one who found a way to drive the car and one who didn't. Does that mean Fernando is so much faster than Kimi? No, of course he isn't under normal circumstances, only in this car he is.
Now we think Vettel will come alongside Kimi. Will this change anything? I'm afraid it is again up to the developmentdepartment to build a driveable car, because otherwise next season could be even worse. Because we all know Vettel is, unlike Fernando, not a man who can drive a car that has fundamental problems.
So that's why I think Fernando and Ferrari parting ways is a very bad idea, at least for Ferrari.

Yes, Alonso is great(est?), that goes without saying, but do you really think that Alo and Rai started from the same line to this season and Alonso had zero advantage from all the feed back he has given in those previous seasons? Even if the rules changed, the team still knows what kind of a car Alonso prefers and when Kimi was signed the car was already designed.
Maybe Alonso has been driving better around the problems, but Kimi has had more and bigger problems to drive around.

[roflcopter44444]

As long as the car is this bad it doesn't matter who gets put in it. Focus should be on solving that first, driver lineup is a secondary issue.

[Winter]

As long as the car is this bad it doesn't matter who gets put in it. Focus should be on solving that first, driver lineup is a secondary issue.

I believe the car is designed to be fast as possible. But there is the driver factor too. Some drivers prefers different kind of cars than other drivers. All of them likes fast car though ;-)

[Katu]

Yes, Alonso is great(est?), that goes without saying, but do you really think that Alo and Rai started from the same line to this season and Alonso had zero advantage from all the feed back he has given in those previous seasons? Even if the rules changed, the team still knows what kind of a car Alonso prefers and when Kimi was signed the car was already designed.
Maybe Alonso has been driving better around the problems, but Kimi has had more and bigger problems to drive around.
possibly they didn't start from the same line, but it still is no excuse that after 18 GP's he still hasn't found a way how to drive this car so i'd get better position than 6-th. tell me as a Kimi-fan you are not disappointed in him when you see that there has been possible to drive with that car to podium too? when you say his problems are bigger, then you make it sound that he is even worse than rookies are when adjusting with completely new cars to them, not talking about former WDC who has almost 12 seasons experience supporting him...

[Alonsomaniac]

Yes, Alonso is great(est?), that goes without saying, but do you really think that Alo and Rai started from the same line to this season and Alonso had zero advantage from all the feed back he has given in those previous seasons? Even if the rules changed, the team still knows what kind of a car Alonso prefers and when Kimi was signed the car was already designed.
Maybe Alonso has been driving better around the problems, but Kimi has had more and bigger problems to drive around.

No, ofcourse they did not start from the same line. But cars are not built for a driver, they are built to be as fast as possible. The driver can do a lot with the car what setup is concerned, but that's all. Kimi is a professional and very experienced driver. I saw no problem in him losing out to Fernando in the first two or three races, but after that he should have been a little closer every time. And he was not. That surprised me.

[KimiBot]

2014 Abu Dhabi drivers press conference.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI8ag6LnPm0

[fratelliferrari]

2014 Abu Dhabi drivers press conference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI8ag6LnPm0

Thanks for posting!

[Alonsomaniac]

The last one was really the best question ever.......Fernando completely speechless :rotfl......he didn't see that one coming :rotfl

[Winter]

possibly they didn't start from the same line, but it still is no excuse that after 18 GP's he still hasn't found a way how to drive this car so i'd get better position than 6-th. tell me as a Kimi-fan you are not disappointed in him when you see that there has been possible to drive with that car to podium too? when you say his problems are bigger, then you make it sound that he is even worse than rookies are when adjusting with completely new cars to them, not talking about former WDC who has almost 12 seasons experience supporting him...


Firstly, yes I am disappointed to his season, but I've been following his career pretty closely for some time now and this is the worst season he has had so far. I also know that he really needs certain characteristics from the car to "show his thing". This is not the first season he has issues with the steering, but until this season those problems were solved at some point of the season. It was many races ago, when Allison said that there is no way to get rid of Kimis steering issues with F14T, the car was "baked" to be under steering. When they try to set up the car to be less understeery, it loses the balance completely.

Of course he could have changed his driving style to be less depending from responsive, pointy front, but natural driving style comes from the spine and is not "fixable". I bet, he has adjusted his style as much as he can, but his natural style is over steering and the car is under steering despite how ever they try to set up the car.

The fact that Alonso doesn't mind, or even prefers understeer and Kimi hates unresponsive front-end has been the biggest reason for the gap between them in this season.

[Nero Horse]

I think Ferrari will bounce back yet again, its in their history and dna. They will rise,
irregardless of who is driving. N I cant wait. :ferrarifl:pass:ferrarifl

Yes, exactly. Ferrari has been through much tougher times than these before and sooner or later they've always managed to get back to the top and win again. It might take some time, but I have no doubt whatsoever, that Ferrari will rise again and we'll have many great days ahead to celebrate. And when those days come then it will taste really sweet.

Per aspera ad astra. :ferrarifl

[Katu]

Firstly, yes I am disappointed to his season, but I've been following his career pretty closely for some time now and this is the worst season he has had so far. I also know that he really needs certain characteristics from the car to "show his thing". This is not the first season he has issues with the steering, but until this season those problems were solved at some point of the season. It was many races ago, when Allison said that there is no way to get rid of Kimis steering issues with F14T, the car was "baked" to be under steering. When they try to set up the car to be less understeery, it loses the balance completely.

Of course he could have changed his driving style to be less depending from responsive, pointy front, but natural driving style comes from the spine and is not "fixable". I bet, he has adjusted his style as much as he can, but his natural style is over steering and the car is under steering despite how ever they try to set up the car.

The fact that Alonso doesn't mind, or even prefers understeer and Kimi hates unresponsive front-end has been the biggest reason for the gap between them in this season.

if it's good enough explanation for you, then okay. will be looking forward to next year to see how things develop then

[KimiBot]

Ferrari WDC drivers

Alberto Ascari 1952, 1953
Juan Manuel Fangio 1956
Mike Hawthorn 1958
Phil Hill 1961
John Surtees 1964
Niki Lauda 1975, 1977
Jody Scheckter 1979
Michael Schumacher 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004
Kimi Räikkönen 2007

[Katu]

why's that important here now?

[Alonso14]

Kimi > Gilles and Prost

Obviously. :oops:thumb

[KimiBot]

why's that important here now?

Just to show, how difficult it is.
Only 9 names on that list from 1952.

[Ed Harley]

1950
Giuseppe Farina
Alfa Romeo


1951
Juan Manuel Fangio
Alfa Romeo


1954
Juan Manuel Fangio
Maserati/Mercedes


1955
Juan Manuel Fangio
Mercedes


1957
Juan Manuel Fangio
Maserati


1959
Jack Brabham
Cooper


1960
Jack Brabham
Cooper


1962
Graham Hill
BRM


1963
Jim Clark
Lotus


1965
Jim Clark
Lotus


1966
Jack Brabham
Brabham


1967
Denny Hulme
Brabham


1968
Graham Hill
Lotus


1969
Jackie Stewart
Matra


1970
Jochen Rindt
Lotus


1971
Jackie Stewart
Tyrrell


1972
Emerson Fittipaldi
Lotus


1973
Jackie Stewart
Tyrrell


1974
Emerson Fittipaldi
McLaren


1976
James Hunt
McLaren


1978
Mario Andretti
Lotus


1980
Alan Jones
Williams


1981
Nelson Piquet
Brabham


1982
Keijo Rosberg
Williams


1983
Nelson Piquet
Brabham


1984
Niki Lauda
McLaren


1985
Alain Prost
McLaren


1986
Alain Prost
McLaren


1987
Nelson Piquet
Williams


1988
Ayrton Senna
McLaren


1989
Alain Prost
McLaren


1990
Ayrton Senna
McLaren


1991
Ayrton Senna
McLaren


1992
Nigel Mansell
Williams


1993
Alain Prost
Williams


1994
Michael Schumacher
Benetton


1995
Michael Schumacher
Benetton


1996
Damon Hill
Williams


1997
Jacques Villeneuve
Williams


1998
Mika Häkkinen
McLaren


1999
Mika Häkkinen
McLaren


2005
Fernando Alonso
Renault


2006
Fernando Alonso
Renault


2008
Lewis Hamilton
McLaren


2009
Jenson Button
Brawn


2010
Sebastian Vettel
Red Bull Racing


2011
Sebastian Vettel
Red Bull Racing


2012
Sebastian Vettel
Red Bull Racing


2013
Sebastian Vettel
Red Bull Racing


2014
Lewis Hamilton
Mercedes



This list is a long one. I hope it does not continue for long.

[Alonso14]

Just to show, how difficult it is.
Only 9 names on that list from 1952.

Yes, yes. Kimi lucked into a great car and got us a WDC, we are aware. This does not make him superior to the likes of Prost or Villneuve, you realize that, don't you?

[KimiBot]

Yes, yes. Kimi lucked into a great car and got us a WDC, we are aware. This does not make him superior to the likes of Prost or Villneuve, you realize that, don't you?

Come on man, I just said that it is extremly difficult to be member in that Club.

[Ed Harley]

Come on man, I just said that it is extremly difficult to be member in that Club.
The sooner you learn not to mention his name the less friction there is.

[Katu]

i suppose it was quite difficult to get into that member's club where Jenson Button sits today, alone! but no-one seems to notice that...

[Ed Harley]

F1 is a team sport so it is quite difficult to get anywhere alone.

[Petronius]

Yes, yes. Kimi lucked into a great car and got us a WDC, we are aware. This does not make him superior to the likes of Prost or Villneuve, you realize that, don't you?

If You become wdc, you need three factors in place. Good car, driving skill and luck. This applies every time. Why You try to dismiss or put down Kimi in almost every comment you send into to all threads on this site is a bit strange IMO. He is after all the driver choice off Ferrari management for next Year besides Sebastian. Not Fernando, who will probably be at McLaren, so hyping him up to skies here, feels a bit out off place, or what do You think? It is time to look forward and not hang on to past.

[Hornet]

If You become wdc, you need three factors in place. Good car, driving skill and luck. This applies every time. Why You try to dismiss or put down Kimi in almost every comment you send into to all threads on this site is a bit strange IMO. He is after all the driver choice off Ferrari management for next Year besides Sebastian. Not Fernando, who will probably be at McLaren, so hyping him up to skies here, feels a bit out off place, or what do You think? It is time to look forward and not hang on to past.
Hanging on to the past is when someone constantly bring up the last WDC argument as if it has any bearing on the present or future. Didn't do a tiny bit of good this season, and it won't matter in the future. So I don't see any point in invoking that list of past Ferrari champions, unless someone is seeking to learn about the history of the team. But that list has got nothing to do with the present or the future.

[Greig]

If that is the case then none the past drivers should be mentioned.

Think you missed the point.

[Alonso14]

If that is the case then none the past drivers should be mentioned.

Is that necessary? Playing like you don't know what was that about. Posting Ferrari WDCs without the context warranting it? Ok, cool.


If You become wdc, you need three factors in place. Good car, driving skill and luck. This applies every time. Why You try to dismiss or put down Kimi in almost every comment you send into to all threads on this site is a bit strange IMO. He is after all the driver choice off Ferrari management for next Year besides Sebastian. Not Fernando, who will probably be at McLaren, so hyping him up to skies here, feels a bit out off place, or what do You think? It is time to look forward and not hang on to past.

I put him him down because of his performances, that's why. And Nick Tombazis is the management's choice for chief designer and Marmorini was the management's choice for head of the engine department. Let's hail them to no end and pretend they are the second coming because the management chose them. Just because the management makes choices and I support Ferrari it doesn't mean that I have to feel obligated to be happy with every decision they make. It's a forum and in my opinion Ferrari has been run quite badly in the past 5-6 years.* Oh, and did I mention Alonso? I'm pretty sure I didn't mention Alonso.

*And I fully expect someone to tell me "Don't judge until you were in their place" or some nonsense like that.

[Stormy]

Well to be frank, when we brought Kimi back that was a pretty solid move, because Kimi was performing superior in Lotus, just like his earlier days. But Kimi just couldn't adjust to our car this year, so it was bad fortune for us and him. But it was a good option to keep Kimi for next year beside Vettel because you never know, maybe he will bring back his old form, we know what he can do. If not, he will most probably retire from F1.

[Alonsomaniac]

Come on, truth is simple: Kimi Raikkonen is one of the fastest drivers around, always has been. His only weak point is that he just needs "his" car to show it.
But once he has "his" car he awakens and then there are few drivers who get a chance to beat him.

[Nand0Nand0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAz54LLCDEs

[Nero Horse]

Come on, truth is simple: Kimi Raikkonen is one of the fastest drivers around, always has been. His only weak point is that he just needs "his" car to show it.
But once he has "his" car he awakens and then there are few drivers who get a chance to beat him.

Well said, and I completely agree. There's no doubt that when he's got a car that is to his liking, then Kimi is one of the best and fastest drivers ever.

[Greig]

Well said, and I completely agree. There's no doubt that when he's got a car that is to his liking, then Kimi is one of the best and fastest drivers ever.

Same could be said for nearly every other driver though, so I don't think this makes Kimi anything special.

[F2003GA]

Hello,

I 've seen this info

“Au milieu de toute cette euphorie, il ne faudra pas oublier de présenter déjà nos excuses à Seb (Vettel) et Kimi (Raikkonen) pour la voiture que nous donneront en 2015,” confie un ingénieur de la Scuderia au journaliste italien Leo Turrini.

"in the middle of this euphoria, we should not forget to say sorry to seb and kimi for the 2015 car"

Source: http://www.nextgen-auto.com/Lauda-Renault-et-Ferrari-ont-traine-en-route,84874.html

Sounds good..............

[Nero Horse]

Same could be said for nearly every other driver though, so I don't think this makes Kimi anything special.

Not every other driver can be as fast with a car to their liking though. I know that Kimi isn't exactly your "favorite" but come on let's give him at least some credit. We've seen how fast he can be when everything clicks into place.

[jpalmito]

Hello,

I 've seen this info

“Au milieu de toute cette euphorie, il ne faudra pas oublier de présenter déjà nos excuses à Seb (Vettel) et Kimi (Raikkonen) pour la voiture que nous donneront en 2015,” confie un ingénieur de la Scuderia au journaliste italien Leo Turrini.

"in the middle of this euphoria, we should not forget to say sorry to seb and kimi for the 2015 car"

Source: http://www.nextgen-auto.com/Lauda-Renault-et-Ferrari-ont-traine-en-route,84874.html

Sounds good..............
I doubt this story Is true but if it´s real,this kind of people have nothing to do With formula one team.he should be fired immediatly.
Lack of motivation Is inacceptable in such competitive sports.

[Katu]

why i haven't seen "sorry" for this year's car?

[Kiwi Nick]

Hello,

I 've seen this info

“Au milieu de toute cette euphorie, il ne faudra pas oublier de présenter déjà nos excuses à Seb (Vettel) et Kimi (Raikkonen) pour la voiture que nous donneront en 2015,” confie un ingénieur de la Scuderia au journaliste italien Leo Turrini.

"in the middle of this euphoria, we should not forget to say sorry to seb and kimi for the 2015 car"

Source: http://www.nextgen-auto.com/Lauda-Renault-et-Ferrari-ont-traine-en-route,84874.html

Sounds good..............

All of those comments point to 2015 being ugly. And the reasons can be laid squarely at the feet of the managers and engineers who did not do as Lauda said, begin the hard work of improving the PU immediately following Melbourne. After that first race it was no mystery that Mercedes was way ahead in PU design and development.

[Ed Harley]

I don't think that the rumoured worse data results relate so much to PU but to the chassis.

[Greig]

Not every other driver can be as fast with a car to their liking though. I know that Kimi isn't exactly your "favorite" but come on let's give him at least some credit. We've seen how fast he can be when everything clicks into place.

Yes nearly every driver will be quick if they sit in a car that suits them. Sadly it's very rare it all clicks into place for Kimi.

[NickEice]

Point in case, Nico Rosberg, unless you think he is an elite talent...

[KimiBot]

Raikkonen and his annus horribilis

http://bbs.hupu.com/11268129.html

[Nero Horse]

Raikkonen and his annus horribilis

http://bbs.hupu.com/11268129.html

"Fernando and Kimi are both world champions and are both extremely fast drivers. If you give Kimi a car that he can work with then it is difficult to put a cigarette paper between them." - James Allison ...I definitely agree with that statement.

For Ferrari's sake, I really-really hope Kimi gets the front of the car to suit him next season.

[AfterLife]

"Fernando and Kimi are both world champions and are both extremely fast drivers. If you give Kimi a car that he can work with then it is difficult to put a cigarette paper between them." - James Allison ...I definitely agree with that statement.

For Ferrari's sake, I really-really hope Kimi gets the front of the car to suit him next season.

That is the difference. Considering Ferrari's current situation for a driver like Kimi Raikkonen it takes 3 or 4 years to challenge for championship but again considering Ferrari's current situation for a driver like Fernando Alonso it takes 2 years (maybe even 1) to challenge for championship.

[Nero Horse]

That is the difference. Considering Ferrari's current situation for a driver like Kimi Raikkonen it takes 3 or 4 years to challenge for championship but again considering Ferrari's current situation for a driver like Fernando Alonso it takes 2 years (maybe even 1) to challenge for championship.

Can't a person say anything positive about Kimi here without someone immediately jumping out and saying "oh but Alonso is better because of that and this"? :roll You are a Alonso fan, yes I get it.

[AfterLife]

Can't a person say anything positive about Kimi here without someone immediately jumping out and saying "oh but Alonso is better because of that and this"? :roll You are a Alonso fan, yes I get it.

Actually I was comparing them. I said nothing bad about Kimi Raikkonen.

[KimiBot]

[I]

For Ferrari's sake, I really-really hope Kimi gets the front of the car to suit him next season.

Kimi had a samekind of problems when he went to Lotus, but they did fix it kind of fast, maybe 5-6 months, then Kimi said: Now we have a good car.
I believe it was Allison who fixed that problem, and as we all remember, Lotus was mediocre team, but after that fix, Lotus was a top team.
This years Ferrari had also other problems than that front, too small turbo, powerless PU, just slow car.
But now they know everything what was problematic, and they can fix all.
Ferrari is strong 2015.

[Nero Horse]

Actually I was comparing them. I said nothing bad about Kimi Raikkonen.

Ok then never mind.

[Winter]

That is the difference. Considering Ferrari's current situation for a driver like Kimi Raikkonen it takes 3 or 4 years to challenge for championship but again considering Ferrari's current situation for a driver like Fernando Alonso it takes 2 years (maybe even 1) to challenge for championship.

It took him 5 years to get zero championships.

[AfterLife]

It took him 5 years to get zero championships.

With your logic, because Fernando Alonso did beat kimi raikkonen with nearly three times more points, kimi raikkonen won't be champion in 15 years but I want to make it easy for you. Ask kimi raikkonen to be second in wdc for once with 3rd or 4th fastest car on the grid.

[Katu]

With your logic, because Fernando Alonso did beat kimi raikkonen with nearly three times more points, kimi raikkonen won't be champion in 15 years but I want to make it easy for you. Ask kimi raikkonen to be second in wdc for once with 3rd or 4th fastest car on the grid.

the car is not to his likings, don't ask him that

[eddie]

While I am in no way saying that Kimi is not a good driver or insinuating that he isn't Championship material; the points itself speak volumes. For the drivers, that is a very important KPI.

[ManFromMilan]

It took him 5 years to get zero championships.



But five years that he immensely impressed by taking Ferrari to places where no other driver could.

You don't have to like him, but his record in what he has achieved speaks volumes and that is what many Tifosi will remember and love about him.

By needlessly nit picking and being disrespectful you will only keep the support from your favorite driver on this forum as you will never be able to justify your negativity towards him. I support Kimi and will do so next season, but will also support what Fernando did with Ferrari in his time with the team.

[Silent Bob]

Ya we get Alonso was good, but can we at least try and support our current drivers. I'm getting kind of tired of this Alonso lovefest. He's gone and I really don't care at this moment, what he did the last five years. Right now I'm more concerned about what direction Ferrari and "it's" drivers are heading in. Alonso is a competitor now. Get over it.

[mark p]

Ya we get Alonso was good, but can we at least try and support our current drivers. I'm getting kind of tired of this Alonso lovefest. He's gone and I really don't care at this moment, what he did the last five years. Right now I'm more concerned about what direction Ferrari and "it's" drivers are heading in. Alonso is a competitor now. Get over it.

+1000. Last year my favorite drivers were Alonso and Raikkonen, the years before Alonso and Massa. Thiz year Vettel and Raikkonen. Whoever drives the Ferraris are the best in my book, i am blind to all the rest. If they are not red they are dead in my mind. Forza Vettel Forza Raikkonen....who was the Spanish guy who used to drive for Ferrari I just forgot his name?

[Ed Harley]

With your logic, because Fernando Alonso did beat kimi raikkonen with nearly three times more points, kimi raikkonen won't be champion in 15 years but I want to make it easy for you. Ask kimi raikkonen to be second in wdc for once with 3rd or 4th fastest car on the grid.
Let's hope that the team is able to produce a 3rd or 4th fastest car on the grid first as that is in no way guaranteed.

[Senna4Ever]

Can't a person say anything positive about Kimi here without someone immediately jumping out and saying "oh but Alonso is better because of that and this"? :roll You are a Alonso fan, yes I get it.

Can't a person say anything about a former Ferrari driver here who put the car to positions where not the most optimistic writer would have dreamed to be (based on the capabilities of the car) without someone immediately jumping out and saying "oh but Kimi was so poor because this and that"? ;-)

[KimiBot]

Can't a person say anything about a former Ferrari driver here who put the car to positions where not the most optimistic writer would have dreamed to be (based on the capabilities of the car) without someone immediately jumping out and saying "oh but Kimi was so poor because this and that"? ;-)

I think there are many other threads where people are talking about what you wish.
This thread has different meaning, we are looking forward here: Raikkonen has faith Ferrari will deliver winning car in 2015

Also, that news was coming from Ferrari`s technical staff, they were telling what was problems with 2014 car.

[Silent Bob]

Can't a person say anything about a former Ferrari driver here who put the car to positions where not the most optimistic writer would have dreamed to be (based on the capabilities of the car) without someone immediately jumping out and saying "oh but Kimi was so poor because this and that"? ;-)

Might be best to go preach to the McLaren faithful. They'd join you in praising Alonso and bashing Vettle & Kimi.

[Nero Horse]

Ya we get Alonso was good, but can we at least try and support our current drivers. I'm getting kind of tired of this Alonso lovefest. He's gone and I really don't care at this moment, what he did the last five years. Right now I'm more concerned about what direction Ferrari and "it's" drivers are heading in. Alonso is a competitor now. Get over it.


+1000. Last year my favorite drivers were Alonso and Raikkonen, the years before Alonso and Massa. Thiz year Vettel and Raikkonen. Whoever drives the Ferraris are the best in my book, i am blind to all the rest. If they are not red they are dead in my mind. Forza Vettel Forza Raikkonen....

+1000

Completely agree. :thumb

[Winter]

With your logic, because Fernando Alonso did beat kimi raikkonen with nearly three times more points, kimi raikkonen won't be champion in 15 years but I want to make it easy for you. Ask kimi raikkonen to be second in wdc for once with 3rd or 4th fastest car on the grid.

Yes, Alonso did beat Kimi, but.....oh, thanks Katu, you answered that one for me..

And it seems that Allison is copying my excuse for Kimis bad season.

Just give Kimi 4 more years and he will bring at least as many championships as Alonso did. Alonso is not a Ferrari driver anymore and it's pointless to say what he could do with Ferrari in 2015 or 2030 unless he rejoins the team. He is a great driver but him being great doesn't do any good for Ferrari..

"Kimi struggled all season to get it handling in a way he likes, complaining constantly about the front-end feel of the car. Raikkonen is highly sensitive to understeer. He hates a car that won't turn in the way he wants. He says it's been that way ever since he started racing." That was quote from annus horibilis. Fix the front-end issues and Kimi is back.

[abbottcostello]

Actually sounds like Kimi's inability to get a comfort level in the F14 T is a lot like what Button went through in 2013 (or maybe 2012), it really needed a redo of the chassis in Jenson's case to change the F/R weight balance, so he just needed to "tough it out" for the season. Ferrari tried different things with no more success than McLaren had with JB's car that year.
I watched Kimi at Lotus & was pretty happy that (unbelievably) Ferrari took him on again. Was a painful season all around, glad to hear Kimi upbeat for 2015. Please let it be more than blowing smoke by our PR people (if there is any such person left in the Scuderia:xmasbiggrin:).

Forza Kimi... Forza Seb

And if the Red cars struggle you'll find me in the General Discussion Forum :xmaswink:

[AfterLife]

Let's hope that the team is able to produce a 3rd or 4th fastest car on the grid first as that is in no way guaranteed.

Actually it is guaranteed. Realistically, it will be real achievement to have 3rd fastest car but more realistically 4th could be our position.

[AfterLife]

Yes, Alonso did beat Kimi, but.....oh, thanks Katu, you answered that one for me..

And it seems that Allison is copying my excuse for Kimis bad season.

Just give Kimi 4 more years and he will bring at least as many championships as Alonso did. Alonso is not a Ferrari driver anymore and it's pointless to say what he could do with Ferrari in 2015 or 2030 unless he rejoins the team. He is a great driver but him being great doesn't do any good for Ferrari..

"Kimi struggled all season to get it handling in a way he likes, complaining constantly about the front-end feel of the car. Raikkonen is highly sensitive to understeer. He hates a car that won't turn in the way he wants. He says it's been that way ever since he started racing." That was quote from annus horibilis. Fix the front-end issues and Kimi is back.

James Allison has said many other things. You do remember, don't you?

"I'm not sure it's entirely fair to say he is struggling more than Fernando," said Allison ahead of the Canadian GP.
"They both have similar feedback with the car..."
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12474/9337402/james-allison-says-kimi-raikkonen-is-simply-driving-slower-than-fernando-alonso

The same feed back from both drivers means Fernando Alonso had problem with front end of the car too but he managed to drive around the problems.

A great driver like Fernando Alonso will extract much more than the car capabilitis from understeery car, oversteery car, leftsteery car, rightsteery car, topsteery car, bottomsteery car OR the best car on the grid.
But a good driver needs a car to his liking to be competitive. If not, he will struggle.

Ferrari have to decide to give Kimi Raikkonen 4 years or not, based on his performance.

[Ed Harley]

Actually it is guaranteed. Realistically, it will be real achievement to have 3rd fastest car but more realistically 4th could be our position.
- Mercedes
- RBR
- McLaren
- Williams
- Force India

Even if McLaren would produce a bad car with fragile or weak engine Ferrari will have to do rather well to have a 4th best car on the grid.

Nothing is guaranteed.

[wickedf1]

I don't know if the Ferrari will be a 'winning' car - considering how far ahead Mercedes is. But I do think that the shake up in the garage, factory and administration in Ferrari is an attempt on their part to reboot and get out from under the negative cloud that has followed them around the last 6 years. I think that Ferrari will be able to deliver a winning car in 2016 if they work together as a unit. Mostly, the reputation of the car and engine can improve now, which will help the morale of the workers.

[Liscia]

This Ferrari fan will be happy if our drivers can contribute at least a win each and contribute points finishes
in 2015 but I fear that may be difficult to achieve? FORZA FERRARI!!!

[Greig]

- Mercedes
- RBR
- McLaren
- Williams
- Force India

Even if McLaren would produce a bad car with fragile or weak engine Ferrari will have to do rather well to have a 4th best car on the grid.

Nothing is guaranteed.

Correct nothing is guaranteed, so why did you list those teams as if it's a guarantee they will have a good car?

[Ed Harley]

They are already closer to a good car and they are not in the middle of team restructuring turmoil.

[Greig]

They are already closer to a good car and they are not in the middle of team restructuring turmoil.

But nothing is guaranteed :-)

[Silent Bob]

James Allison has said many other things. You do remember, don't you?

"I'm not sure it's entirely fair to say he is struggling more than Fernando," said Allison ahead of the Canadian GP.
"They both have similar feedback with the car..."
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12474/9337402/james-allison-says-kimi-raikkonen-is-simply-driving-slower-than-fernando-alonso

The same feed back from both drivers means Fernando Alonso had problem with front end of the car too but he managed to drive around the problems.

A great driver like Fernando Alonso will extract much more than the car capabilitis from understeery car, oversteery car, leftsteery car, rightsteery car, topsteery car, bottomsteery car OR the best car on the grid.
But a good driver needs a car to his liking to be competitive. If not, he will struggle.

Ferrari have to decide to give Kimi Raikkonen 4 years or not, based on his performance.

So are you positive that, if the car had a tendency to be unstable due to it having too much oversteer, Alonso would still have beaten Kimi. Or would Kimi maybe have been able to deal with that situation a little better than Alonso. Saying that Alonso would have the upper hand in all situations is a little rich even from you. I would bet that in a car that had a more responsive front end, Kimi may actually be quicker than Alonso.. maybe not as consistent, but quicker.

[Winter]

James Allison has said many other things. You do remember, don't you?

"I'm not sure it's entirely fair to say he is struggling more than Fernando," said Allison ahead of the Canadian GP.
"They both have similar feedback with the car..."
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12474/9337402/james-allison-says-kimi-raikkonen-is-simply-driving-slower-than-fernando-alonso

The same feed back from both drivers means Fernando Alonso had problem with front end of the car too but he managed to drive around the problems.

A great driver like Fernando Alonso will extract much more than the car capabilitis from understeery car, oversteery car, leftsteery car, rightsteery car, topsteery car, bottomsteery car OR the best car on the grid.
But a good driver needs a car to his liking to be competitive. If not, he will struggle.

Ferrari have to decide to give Kimi Raikkonen 4 years or not, based on his performance.

It's was not so surprising news to me that Kimi struggles with front-end. It is and has been THE weakness of him. And even if they both complain about it, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't affect more to Kimis driving. As a matter of fact if the front was too weak even for Alonso, who has said that he prefers under steer over over steer, you can only imagine what a handicap that was to Kimi who hates unresponsive steering.

[Winter]

So are you positive that, if the car had a tendency to be unstable due to it having too much oversteer, Alonso would still have beaten Kimi. Or would Kimi maybe have been able to deal with that situation a little better than Alonso. Saying that Alonso would have the upper hand in all situations is a little rich even from you. I would bet that in a car that had a more responsive front end, Kimi may actually be quicker than Alonso.. maybe not as consistent, but quicker.

Thumb up.

[Nero Horse]

It's was not so surprising news to me that Kimi struggles with front-end. It is and has been THE weakness of him. And even if they both complain about it, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't affect more to Kimis driving. As a matter of fact if the front was too weak even for Alonso, who has said that he prefers under steer over over steer, you can only imagine what a handicap that was to Kimi who hates unresponsive steering.

I would absolutely love it if Kimi could sort out all the front-end issues and get back into his groove again next season. As a Ferrari fan, nothing would please me more than to see Kimi and Vettel driving at their maximum level and achieving great results. Really, really hope that next year's car will suit both drivers equally and we can have a good season.

Forza Ferrari! Go Seb & Go Kimi!

[Winter]

Could not agree more. Vettel and Kimi in red is a dream team to me.
And I'm sure that they will do their part to push the team to right direction with good spirit!

[wickedf1]

Me too. Everything good about F1 under one roof! :xmasbiggrin:

[JPMFerrari]

Could not agree more. Vettel and Kimi in red is a dream team to me.
And I'm sure that they will do their part to push the team to right direction with good spirit!

Teamwork.

[AfterLife]

- Mercedes
- RBR
- McLaren
- Williams
- Force India

Even if McLaren would produce a bad car with fragile or weak engine Ferrari will have to do rather well to have a 4th best car on the grid.

Nothing is guaranteed.

Ferrari will be 3rd (Optimism) or 4th (Realistically) competitive car. We will see. It is close.


So are you positive that, if the car had a tendency to be unstable due to it having too much oversteer, Alonso would still have beaten Kimi. Or would Kimi maybe have been able to deal with that situation a little better than Alonso. Saying that Alonso would have the upper hand in all situations is a little rich even from you. I would bet that in a car that had a more responsive front end, Kimi may actually be quicker than Alonso.. maybe not as consistent, but quicker.

I am confident that Fernando Alonso will adopt to any car and will push the car beyond it's limit.


It's was not so surprising news to me that Kimi struggles with front-end. It is and has been THE weakness of him. And even if they both complain about it, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't affect more to Kimis driving. As a matter of fact if the front was too weak even for Alonso, who has said that he prefers under steer over over steer, you can only imagine what a handicap that was to Kimi who hates unresponsive steering.

That famous front end is the third global concern after Air and water pollution. Reportedly according to LoliDeLucaIsAlwaysRight, Leo Turrini has given up his journalism career and has announced he is going to design special (Plug & drive) front end for Kimi Raikkonen and according to judge15 the numbers in simulation are a big achievement already.

[Winter]

That famous front end is the third global concern after Air and water pollution. Reportedly according to LoliDeLucaIsAlwaysRight, Leo Turrini has given up his journalism career and has announced he is going to design special (Plug & drive) front end for Kimi Raikkonen and according to judge15 the numbers in simulation are a big achievement already.

Yep, that front-end has been a disaster.
Too bad Turrini gave up his journalist career, I enjoyed his writings a lot, even I don't understand italian language. I don't know who or what this judge15 is, but sounds promising. Did your dream tell us some more interesting facts?

[AfterLife]

Yep, that front-end has been a disaster.
Too bad Turrini gave up his journalist career, I enjoyed his writings a lot, even I don't understand italian language. I don't know who or what this judge15 is, but sounds promising. Did your dream tell us some more interesting facts?

Ask everything from LoriDeLuca. He knows everything.

[Senna4Ever]

Might be best to go preach to the McLaren faithful. They'd join you in praising Alonso and bashing Vettle & Kimi.

Thanks for your kind advice.
sometimes silent shouldn't be a word ...

Have you seen me bashing kimi or or especially vettel here lately?
congrats for your favourite drivef line up
for me i can say i "surviveed" also the schumacher years ... and so will do next.
I will do just like some others did, post some meaningless nice things where nothing can be bad about and show true face when it is allowed again. ;-)

[Lesky]

Does Ferrari have faith that Raikkonen will deliver winning performances in 2015 after his miserable 2014?

[Nero Horse]

Does Ferrari have faith that Raikkonen will deliver winning performances in 2015 after his miserable 2014?

By the law of averages it's unlikely that Raikkonen will have a similar poor season next year. :xmaswink:

[wisepie]

By the law of averages it's unlikely that Raikkonen will have a similar poor season next year. :xmaswink:

I so hope you're right, Nero Horse, we've been through enough turmoil over the past few years without all the current changes, so maybe some drastic action will get us back nearer the front.....stranger things have happened. Forza Ferrari, even with Kim and Seb, and that's not something I ever thought I'd say.:xmaseek:

[aroutis]

That is the difference. Considering Ferrari's current situation for a driver like Kimi Raikkonen it takes 3 or 4 years to challenge for championship but again considering Ferrari's current situation for a driver like Fernando Alonso it takes 2 years (maybe even 1) to challenge for championship.
Noone, and I mean noone, can challenge for a WDC with a crap car. Not Alonso, not Senna, not Schumacher.
This year should've been a lesson, apparently not. 2005 should've been a lesson. Apparently not.

And given our current status (meaning restructuring, laying offs, hiring and all that), there is no way to tell what can happen, in a year, two or ten, no matter who is driving for us.

[Alonsomaniac]

Noone, and I mean noone, can challenge for a WDC with a crap car. Not Alonso, not Senna, not Schumacher.
This year should've been a lesson, apparently not. 2005 should've been a lesson. Apparently not.

And given our current status (meaning restructuring, laying offs, hiring and all that), there is no way to tell what can happen, in a year, two or ten, no matter who is driving for us.


And that's the truth. Amen.

[Silent Bob]

Thanks for your kind advice.
sometimes silent shouldn't be a word ...


Have you seen me bashing kimi or or especially vettel here lately?
congrats for your favourite drivef line up
for me i can say i "surviveed" also the schumacher years ... and so will do next.
I will do just like some others did, post some meaningless nice things where nothing can be bad about and show true face when it is allowed again. ;-)


Not sure what your saying, but I was an Alonso supporter. My dream lineup would have him at Ferrari still, but I don't live in the past and Alonso has decided to move on. So I've decided to do the same and wholeheartedly support Ferrari drivers like iI've been doing since I became an F1 fan.
You survived the Schumacher years, I loved them and hope Vettel or Kimi will deliver us into that type of dynasty again. Its too bad Alonso didn't workout but at least thiss fiasco has finally brought about some significant changes to the team, and hopefully its for the better.

[aroutis]

Not sure what your saying, but I was an Alonso supporter. My dream lineup would have him at Ferrari still, but I don't live in the past and Alonso has decided to move on. So I've decided to do the same and wholeheartedly support Ferrari drivers like iI've been doing since I became an F1 fan.
You survived the Schumacher years, I loved them and hope Vettel or Kimi will deliver us into that type of dynasty again. Its too bad Alonso didn't workout but at least thiss fiasco has finally brought about some significant changes to the team, and hopefully its for the better.

Amen to that.
Lingering to the glory years is a sign of weakness.

Learning from mistakes and moving onto better things, that's a sign of strength.

[FerrariSteve]

Sadly I don't see anyone getting close to Merc next year, that illegal test a year ago seemed to give them a HUGE boost.

I hope we can make a solid car though and get regular podiums!

[aroutis]

Sadly I don't see anyone getting close to Merc next year, that illegal test a year ago seemed to give them a HUGE boost.

I hope we can make a solid car though and get regular podiums!
To be honest I really don't care.
I've been a fan of this sport and F1 since the days I had a 12" black and white TV, watching Ferrari running on V12s and I still remember when I heard the sad news when Gilles passed away.

I've seen far, far worse days than the ones we're in right now. If there 's one thing I know, is that what goes around comes around. We 'll be strong again.

[AfterLife]

Noone, and I mean noone, can challenge for a WDC with a crap car. Not Alonso, not Senna, not Schumacher.
This year should've been a lesson, apparently not. 2005 should've been a lesson. Apparently not.

And given our current status (meaning restructuring, laying offs, hiring and all that), there is no way to tell what can happen, in a year, two or ten, no matter who is driving for us.

Who says a driver can win the championship with crap car?

[aroutis]

Who says a driver can win the championship with crap car?

You seem to be under the impression that Alonso is a miracle worker. He is not.
I replied on your last post. Sorry but you 're deluded.

There's a reason he quit. Or actually more.

[Tony]

What's this about 4 more years for Raikkonen?

[aroutis]

What's this about 4 more years for Raikkonen?
Some stupid notion that Alonso could spare us 4 years of effort and with Raikkonen now, we have to fight 4 more years in order to be where we'd be should we maintained a driver that wanted to leave in the first place.

[AfterLife]

You seem to be under the impression that Alonso is a miracle worker. He is not.
I replied on your last post. Sorry but you 're deluded.

There's a reason he quit. Or actually more.

I repeat, Who says a driver can win the championship with crap car?

[vecchiasignora]

I repeat, Who says a driver can win the championship with crap car?

Schumacher did. But sorry I forgot, alonso aint no schumacher..he is jacques villenueve.

[Greig]

Schumacher did. But sorry I forgot, alonso aint no schumacher..he is jacques villenueve.

When did MS win a title with a crap car?

[vecchiasignora]

When did MS win a title with a crap car?


MS pushed a car 0.4 second faster then it really was.

[Katu]

MS pushed a car 0.4 second faster then it really was.

based on what are you saying this?

[Winter]

MS pushed a car 0.4 second faster then it really was.

There is, never was and never will be a driver who drives faster than the car allows him to drive.

[Greig]

MS pushed a car 0.4 second faster then it really was.

Impossible, so again when did he win with a crap car?

[Alonso14]

MS pushed a car 0.4 second faster then it really was.

MSC could bend the laws of physics??

[Rob]

MSC could bend the laws of physics??

yes, he had one of these on the engine...

http://i57.tinypic.com/1emh74.jpg

[BigGar32]

No way did MS win a championship with a "crap" car. I'd rank them as follows:

94 - possibly not the absolute best car over the season but very competitive against the Williams
95 - that was a good Benetton

2000 - close to McLaren in terms of absolute pace
2001/2002/2003/2004 - dominant car

Mind you, I'd say the car he drove in 96 was basically a poor car (also unreliable) and he produced stunning drives to win some of the GP's that year as well as getting it on pole in France, Monaco etc. Monaco especially was an incredible pole. That was not a good car.

[Alonso14]

yes, he had one of these on the engine...

http://i57.tinypic.com/1emh74.jpg

And let me guess...he designed it himself like every good driver is supposed to? :lol

[Nero Horse]

No way did MS win a championship with a "crap" car. I'd rank them as follows:

94 - possibly not the absolute best car over the season but very competitive against the Williams
95 - that was a good Benetton

2000 - close to McLaren in terms of absolute pace
2001/2002/2003/2004 - dominant car

Mind you, I'd say the car he drove in 96 was basically a poor car (also unreliable) and he produced stunning drives to win some of the GP's that year as well as getting it on pole in France, Monaco etc. Monaco especially was an incredible pole. That was not a good car.

No driver in the history of Formula 1 has won a championship with a total crap car. No one. End of discussion.

[fratelliferrari]

No way did MS win a championship with a "crap" car. I'd rank them as follows:

94 - possibly not the absolute best car over the season but very competitive against the Williams
95 - that was a good Benetton

2000 - close to McLaren in terms of absolute pace
2001/2002/2003/2004 - dominant car

Mind you, I'd say the car he drove in 96 was basically a poor car (also unreliable) and he produced stunning drives to win some of the GP's that year as well as getting it on pole in France, Monaco etc. Monaco especially was an incredible pole. That was not a good car.

2003 a dominant car?? Did you missed that season or what?

[BigGar32]

2003 a dominant car?? Did you missed that season or what?

Apologies! You are correct about 2003. Typed that message massively quickly on the phone. Having said that, I did think the 2003 car was a stunner to look at! Thinking back, that was absolutely a tough season. And I now remember the stresses of that last race in Suzuka!!

[mark p]

But Schumacher was extra special. Perception seems to be Vettel has been lucky with time and place, Alonso is very good but not in the right place, Schumacher had luck like Vettel and was better than Alonso = 7 titles 90 + wins.

Most succesful Ferrari driver ever = best driver ever IN MY OPINION.

Ps 97 and 98 took it to the wire without relying on others failing. Car was quite far back but still won races on pace.

[Nero Horse]

But Schumacher was extra special. Perception seems to be Vettel has been lucky with time and place, Alonso is very good but not in the right place, Schumacher had luck like Vettel and was better than Alonso = 7 titles 90 + wins.

Most succesful Ferrari driver ever = best driver ever IN MY OPINION.

Ps 97 and 98 took it to the wire without relying on others failing. Car was quite far back but still won races on pace.

+1000

Completely agree.

Well said. :thumb

[Senna4Ever]

And let me guess...he designed it himself like every good driver is supposed to? :lol

no he took the idea from this guy 6098 who must be seen now as the first Newey in F1 history ...
so a wet edge of a toilette influenced F1

[Winter]

no I took the idea from this guy 6098 who must be seen now as the first Newey in F1 history ...
so a wet edge of a toilette influenced F1

He looks kinda Newey:xmaseek:

[aroutis]

No way did MS win a championship with a "crap" car. I'd rank them as follows:

94 - possibly not the absolute best car over the season but very competitive against the Williams
95 - that was a good Benetton

2000 - close to McLaren in terms of absolute pace
2001/2002/2003/2004 - dominant car

Mind you, I'd say the car he drove in 96 was basically a poor car (also unreliable) and he produced stunning drives to win some of the GP's that year as well as getting it on pole in France, Monaco etc. Monaco especially was an incredible pole. That was not a good car.

The two years that Ferrari had a truly dominant car were 2002 and 2004.
By term Dominant Car , one means a car that is simply out of reach. Mercedes had a dominant car at 2014, for example.

Other than that, Ferrari was very competent and Schumacher was really a great driver that made the difference, and Ferrari in itself was THE team to beat.

[ManFromMilan]

MS pushed a car 0.4 second faster then it really was.



Just like some forum members type 0.4 units of baloney more than any other forum member concerning real tangible facts and figures.

[Nero Horse]

Kimi Raikkonen, who endured a well below par return season to Ferrari in 2014, will need to prove next season that he deserves to stay on at Maranello beyond 2015.

That is the warning of new Ferrari team boss Maurizio Arrivabene, following recent reports that the Finnish driver wants to stay at Maranello not only next year but perhaps also in 2016.

35-year-old Raikkonen, however, struggled notably on his return to the Maranello team from Lotus this season, with a points haul one third the size of Fernando Alonso’s and not a single podium appearance.

“Last season was difficult for Kimi,” Arrivabene is quoted by Turun Sanomat newspaper, “but that does not mean that he has lost his speed. He is a former world champion, and more importantly he won the title driving a Ferrari.”

“I want to emphasise that next season Kimi needs the time to show that he is capable, and after that it will be possible to make a decision about the future.”

Raikkonen’s teammate in 2015 will be his friend Sebastian Vettel, Formula 1’s quadruple consecutive world champion for Red Bull between 2010 and 2013.

“For sure,” Arrivabene insisted, “drivers are not a problem for us.”

Raikkonen won Ferrari’s last driver’s championship in 2007, departed the team at the end of 2009 but was brought back for 2014.


http://www.grandprix247.com/2014/12/23/arrivabene-kimi-needs-the-time-to-show-that-he-is-capable/

[ALO]

Ok Kimi keep the faith but, this can not happen next year if we are to be competitive.

"Best team mate head-to-head record: Fernando Alonso, Ferrari - beat Kimi Raikkonen 16-3 over the season, with DNFs included"

source
http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2014/12/16738.html

[Ed Harley]

Ok Kimi keep the faith but, this can not happen next year if we are to be competitive.

"Best team mate head-to-head record: Fernando Alonso, Ferrari - beat Kimi Raikkonen 16-3 over the season, with DNFs included"

source
http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2014/12/16738.html
Drivers are the least of the team's problems in 2015.

[Greig]

Drivers are the least of the team's problems in 2015.

Disagree, no matter what position we are in then getting the most from our drivers is required.

[Ed Harley]

I said that the drivers are the least of the team's problems.

"For sure," Arrivabene insisted, "drivers are not a problem for us."

[Greig]

I said that the drivers are the least of the team's problems.

"For sure," Arrivabene insisted, "drivers are not a problem for us."

I know what you said, and I disagreed.

[Ed Harley]

Sorry but believe that Mr Arrivabene's assessment of the team's situation is more accurate.

[Greig]

Sorry but believe that Mr Arrivabene's assessment of the team's situation is more accurate.


“I want to emphasise that next season Kimi needs the time to show that he is capable, and after that it will be possible to make a decision about the future.”


Seems like he knows of a problem is coming up for the driver if we get another season like this one.....so again I disagree with YOUR comment.

[Ed Harley]

Seems like he knows that there are numerous other problems to sort out first.

[Alonso14]

Drivers are the least of the team's problems in 2015.


I said that the drivers are the least of the team's problems.

"For sure," Arrivabene insisted, "drivers are not a problem for us."


Sorry but believe that Mr Arrivabene's assessment of the team's situation is more accurate.

What do you expect Arrivabene to say? To go against his two highest paid employees before the season has even started? Or to openly admit that our line-up is very car sensitive and they cannot extract the maximum unless the car is to their liking?

I agree we are very far from the point where driver line-up deserves to be singled out as the problem like in Williams 2012 for example but it's not the least of our problems. If we were making W05/RB10 style cars, then sure, fast guys like Seb and Kimi would the drive the wheels off the car and rack up win after win. But that's not the case, in the current situation we would benefit much more from a driver with great adaptability and ability to drive around problems like Hamilton or Alonso in order to score the maximum of points available. Just think how much points Kimi left on the table last year because the F14T was a dog. Now imagine a guy with the same problems driving the 2nd Ferrari - that catapults us from fighting with Williams/McLaren territory to fighting with Force India/Toro Rosso territory.

Of course whatever Arrivabene or any other TP is saying doesn't have 100% face value. They protect the imagine and the moral of their company and employees.

[Ed Harley]

Drivers really are the least of the team's problems. Fix the car and operation and look at the drivers when said building blocks are first in place and working as they should.

Had Räikkönen or any driver in the other red car matched Alonso's points in 2014 Ferrari would still not have won WDC or WCC and as far as I can tell they are not in F1 to aim to finish second or third.

[Alonso14]

So it's win or bust for you? If we don't win then it doesn't matter if we are third or ninth? Same difference to you?

The least of problems would suggest it's an area where we are very strong. Such areas are mechanics, strategists and commercial deals. After the disastrous 2014 for our drivers I wouldn't say we have a reason to be overly confident in them. Both of them are leaving too many pts on the table if the car doesn't suit them.

[Ed Harley]

One Ayrton Senna allegedly said that "Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose." ​And I agree.

Ferrari could of course rely on the drivers to adapt to unpredictable handling of the F14T but IMHO that is not the way to go.

[Alonso14]

So the 2008/2010/2012 seasons were all the same to you as the 2005/2009/2014?

[vecchiasignora]

the problem last year the team and car were designed for alonso. not kimi.this is why we failed. wait next year, when we build our team around proven players like kimi and vettel..

[Brembo]

the problem last year the team and car were designed for alonso. not kimi.this is why we failed. wait next year, when we build our team around proven players like kimi and vettel..

I guess you also feel Red Bull failed by designing their car after Vettel and not the rookie who beat him big time. Ferrari was designing a car around a proven player in Alonso.

[abbottcostello]

The problem last year was the F14-T had bad-handling characteristics that could not be cured without major changes. Obviously, these couldn't be cured by "fine tuning" the existing chassis. The car may have been designed with Fernando's preferences in mind, but I doubt the result was a car Fernando wanted, else he'd still be a Ferrari pilot! To put the blame on the car being designed for Alonso is patently absurd!

Both Alonso & Kimi disliked the handling, according to some of JA's remarks, only difference being that Alonso was able to handle the shortcomings better than Kimi.

I hope they succeed in giving Kimi & Seb a car they both find, at the very least, predictable & tractable. Give them a car with those properties & more horsepower & their abilities should have a chance to show.

MA's statement is an acknowledgement that the car had some problems, but that Kimi must do better in 2015, else he will be shown the EXIT sign...


Maurizio "I want to emphasise that next season Kimi needs the time to show that he is capable, and after that it will be possible to make a decision about the future."

That's a "warning shot across the bow" to Kimi, up your game son or no contract for you. Hardly what you say to a driver when you are NOT concerned about him performing up to snuff.

[Alonso14]

the problem last year the team and car were designed for alonso. not kimi.this is why we failed. wait next year, when we build our team around proven players like kimi and vettel..

That would explain why Alonso left. If "designed for FA" means car with no downforce, traction, balance and good engine then it's pretty safe to assume that the designer team hated Alonso's guts.