Alonso says Vettel is not the best

[Stormsearcher]

lol.. i wonder if this is exactly what he said or the media just twisting it cheese off horner and co.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alonso-vettel-not-the-best-driver/

[Ed Harley]

"In my opinion," he is quoted by Italy's La Stampa, "Lewis Hamilton is the best driver."

ROFL

[ManFromMilan]

"In my opinion," he is quoted by Italy's La Stampa, "Lewis Hamilton is the best driver."

ROFL



I think he is playing mind games again:lol

[Greig]

So anyone want to say Seb is better than Lewis?

No thought not...

[ManFromMilan]

So anyone want to say Seb is better than Lewis?

No thought not...



They are about even when it is about how big a cry baby they are.

It that regard they are both whiners.;-)

[Stormsearcher]

I tend to agree that after Alonso himself, LH is the best there is. Yeah, he can be a brat, but there is no denying his driving abilities.

[radosav]

"I don't know what problems Vettel is having this year, but I have not changed my mind about him -- he is not the best. "It is others who have to change their opinion," Alonso added.

[Ed Harley]

According to the article he did not say LF is the best driver after himself but the best...

[Greig]

According to the article he did not say LF is the best driver after himself but the best...

He said the same last year.

[Stebandelareina]

Alonso sais last year something like "we'll see how good driver Vettel is when he drive a middle grill car. Then, his 4 championships will weigh a lot to him, because everybody will know why he won it".
Now Rb has the second best car and Vettel is having huge problems. His team mate have won 3 races and seb said after spa " I'm fighting in the frontline with a wood stick"

Thats what Alonso is talking about. This year is beong embarrasing for a 4 times wc

[Stormsearcher]

According to the article he did not say LF is the best driver after himself but the best...

Yeah, that bit is my opinion. :-)

Whats the point of stating the obvious, besides, you'd be a pompous a$$ if u go around saying u are the best right? :-P

[Alonsomaniac]

I don't agree with Fernando here, Lewis is not the best. He is the fastest driver on the grid in terms of raw speed, faster than anyone else including Fernando, but overall there is only one the best right now: Fernando himself.
Of course he will never say that about himself.......

[Stormy]

I don't agree with Fernando here, Lewis is not the best. He is the fastest driver on the grid in terms of raw speed, faster than anyone else including Fernando, but overall there is only one the best right now: Fernando himself.
Of course he will never say that about himself.......
Sure Hamilton can make incidents, but overall he gets the job done, he makes great overtakes that maybe he doesn't know when precisely to do them unlike Alonso who calculates precisely but Hamilton is fast and also doing great maneuvers.
Vettel often makes great mistakes when overtaking and brakes under pressure, shame for a 4 time WDC!

[ALO]

I am the best :)

[Giallo 550]

Fernando Alonso is the best driver on the grid.

[Hornet]

Yeah, that bit is my opinion. :-)

Whats the point of stating the obvious, besides, you'd be a pompous a$$ if u go around saying u are the best right? :-P

Exactly, Alonso can't come out saying he's the best and Lewis is second. Most drivers don't say that even if they believe they are the better driver.

[Rishu]

Clearly, it's a go at Vettel :-D

Lewis is the fastest driver on the grid, but not the best. We all know who it is

[Brembo]

I can only imagine what Webber has to say about Ricc's teamate stinking up the place without is old spaceship.

[Lesky]

If Vettels car had not malfunctioned in 50% of the races, then we would be able to judge him properly. Now I think its a bit early to call him a fraud. Maybe in the future, but not right now!

[Senna4Ever]

If Vettels car had not malfunctioned in 50% of the races, then we would be able to judge him properly.

Could it be you have mixed up Vettel with Webber?

[Lesky]

Could it be you have mixed up Vettel with Webber?

No, as we are comparing Vettel and Ricciardo this year.

Vettel has had 5 x times as many car problems this year ALONE as Alonso has had totally in 5 years for Ferrari.

[Stormsearcher]

I am the best :)

:lol :thumb:thumb

[Stormsearcher]

If Vettels car had not malfunctioned in 50% of the races, then we would be able to judge him properly. Now I think its a bit early to call him a fraud. Maybe in the future, but not right now!

Then lets just compare them in the races both finished. :-) still doesnt look too good for Vettel.

[Lesky]

Then lets just compare them in the races both finished. :-) still doesnt look too good for Vettel.

Agreed. Do you have stats for that? I know Vettel is still losing, but not nearly as much as the driving standing says. I would like to see Vettel have ZERO car problems for the remaining races and see how he does Vs Ricciardo.

[Stormsearcher]

Agreed. Do you have stats for that? I know Vettel is still losing, but not nearly as much as the driving standing says. I would like to see Vettel have ZERO car problems for the remaining races and see how he does Vs Ricciardo.

Nopes. Didnt care enough to dig out stats. But clearly Ric has the upper hand. I expect at some point SV will get his act together and compete with Ric. But 2014 wont be a year he will want to remember.
Having said that, i do think once he manages to master this years/ or this era of car.. he will be faster than DR.

[Brembo]

Agreed. Do you have stats for that? I know Vettel is still losing, but not nearly as much as the driving standing says. I would like to see Vettel have ZERO car problems for the remaining races and see how he does Vs Ricciardo.

As long as RB team lets there drivers continue to race each other with no team orders either way< Vettel met his match.

[eddie]

Fernando Alonso is the best driver on the grid.... Anyone saying otherwise is watching a different F1 :lol

[racingbradley]

:-) I agree with Brembo on that
As regards Lewis if he employed his brain more often he might have won more races!!!!

[Majki2111]

I think this is the order
1.Alonso
2.Vettel, Rosberg, Kvyat, Bottas (Hulkenberg)
3.Hamilton, Ricciardo, Grosejan, Kimi, Button, Kobayashi, Perez, Bianchi,Vergne
4.Magnussen, Sutil
5.Ericsson, Chilton

[Senna4Ever]

No, as we are comparing Vettel and Ricciardo this year.


but for honour the driving skills of Vettel you refer to all the years ahead ...
and funny on that 90% of technical problems hit Webber ... whereas Vettel profit and looked good ... but of course anyone feel free to draw own conclusions ...

[Lesky]

but for honour the driving skills of Vettel you refer to all the years ahead ...
and funny on that 90% of technical problems hit Webber ... whereas Vettel profit and looked good ... but of course anyone feel free to draw own conclusions ...

I have not drawn any conclusions from Webbers retirements in previous seasons, but obviously you are worried people might have done that, and whether you are right or wrong about that I cant answer.

Obviously Webber was extremely unlucky the previous years and Vettel this year.

[Brembo]

I have not drawn any conclusions from Webbers retirements in previous seasons, but obviously you are worried people might have done that, and whether you are right or wrong about that I cant answer.

Obviously Webber was extremely unlucky the previous years and Vettel this year.
What Vettel needed this year was " The Legend " Jean Todt at RB telling the other driver to " Let Vettel Pass!. "

[F1Jan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji91cryl7R8

Not sure if anyone already seen this

[Lesky]

What Vettel needed this year was " The Legend " Jean Todt at RB telling the other driver to " Let Vettel Pass!. "

Was you brembo_man account banned and you had to create a new one?

[WRX202]

In these terms Ricciardo is the best lol. He beat Vettel a 4 x WDC and even Lewis [the current best according to Alonso] with the second best car. :lol

[Lesky]

In these terms Ricciardo is the best lol. He beat Vettel a 4 x WDC and even Lewis [the current best according to Alonso] with the second best car. :lol

A shame Ricciardo was DQ in the first race losing precious points as well! Would like to see the Mercs challenged!

[Rob]

Seb was best in the EBD era, now without those toys, he isnt the best. Simple.

[Senna4Ever]

Seb was best in the EBD era,

and unfortunately no other team was able to understand how it works to give RB a real rival on tha street ...

[Brembo]

Was you brembo_man account banned and you had to create a new one?

No, I just have a hard time spelling man so I left it right out. Thanks for your concern!

[Kingdom Hearts]

Seb was best in the EBD era, now without those toys, he isnt the best. Simple.

He was not the best, he had the best EBD car by a mile, even if you want to give credit to him for getting the most of that technology, no other driver had a car with so much downforce.

[ManFromMilan]

He was not the best, he had the best EBD car by a mile, even if you want to give credit to him for getting the most of that technology, no other driver had a car with so much downforce.




Spot on:thumb

[Winter]

There was two drivers in RedBull when Vettel won his titles. People doesn't seem to give much credit to Webber.

[Ed Harley]

It is sad that when you do your job very well as a team - something that every team is trying to - you get this "but it's/was just the car". Sour grapes, I say.

[TonyRizza]

Vettel is easily the best german driver in redbull....

[Hornet]

It is sad that when you do your job very well as a team - something that every team is trying to - you get this "but it's/was just the car". Sour grapes, I say.

So you're saying when a driver struggles against his team mate, it would be totally the driver's fault as well, and not because of the car not suiting his driving style or something.

[Ed Harley]

Have you ever heard of a driver who has developed a car which does not suit his driving style?

[Senna4Ever]

Have you ever heard of a driver who has developed a car which does not suit his driving style?

No ... and we are glad you remind us ...

[Ed Harley]

Neither have I.

[sav_pap]

He is the best and he knows it...😉

[Hornet]

Have you ever heard of a driver who has developed a car which does not suit his driving style?

Um, what. Drivers don't develop the car. But Vettel has shown that he's fast when the car has EBD characteristic, and without it, he struggled against Webber and Ric. That's why people are saying it's the car that boosted Vettel to the success he enjoyed. A great driver would have adapted but Vettel couldn't, yet anyway.

So if you claim that's sour grapes and the car wasn't a major factor which is what people are saying, then that implies that one cannot use the car characteristic as the reason for a driver's struggle as well.

[TonyRizza]

part time fans say he is the best, people who watch every session or 90% of them knows hes not even in the top 5 at the moment in terms of skill.

[tifosi1993]

Have you ever heard of a driver who has developed a car which does not suit his driving style?

Really? You still do not know who develop the F1 car?

[Brembo]

There was two drivers in RedBull when Vettel won his titles. People doesn't seem to give much credit to Webber.

When MS was with Ferrari there was only one driver. Nothing new.

[Ed Harley]

Really? You still do not know who develop the F1 car?
Casper, Jasper and Jonathan?

Let me rephrase that:
Have you ever heard of a driver, who has been part of the development team, to have given feedback of a car's behaviour to steer the car's development in such a direction where the car's handling does not suit his driving style?

[tifosi1993]

Casper, Jasper and Jonathan?

Your friends?



Let me rephrase that:
Have you ever heard of a driver, who has been part of the development team, to have given feedback of a car's behaviour to steer the car's development in such a direction where the car's handling does not suit his driving style?

Have you ever heard of adaptability?

[Winter]

If you have some chance to give some feedback when the car is designed, maybe there is less adapting needed..

[Rob]

He was not the best, he had the best EBD car by a mile, even if you want to give credit to him for getting the most of that technology, no other driver had a car with so much downforce.

he was the best, as it was/helped his driving style and the toys helped him get the feel he needs on mid corner, plus his entry style.

[Rob]

When MS was with Ferrari there was only one driver. Nothing new.

no 2, if Rubens was there we wouldnt of won all those WCC.;-)

:-G

[Ed Harley]

he was the best, as it was/helped his driving style and the toys helped him get the feel he needs on mid corner, plus his entry style.
Finally.

Could somebody please let me know what seems to be the generally accepted minimum level of suffering a driver has to endure so that his/hers achievements are not put on the car alone?

[Ed Harley]

Your friends?
No. Casper, Jasper and Jonathan are fictional characters in a Norwegian children's story When the Robbers Came to Cardamom Town by Thorbjørn Egner. I have read it to my godchildren on several occasions and they have liked it a lot.


Have you ever heard of adaptability?
Yes, I have. But it is my understanding that drivers logically prefer a car which already is handling according to their preferences. Naturally this view may not be so popular in certain circles.

[Senna4Ever]

Could somebody please let me know what seems to be the generally accepted minimum level of suffering a driver has to endure so that his/hers achievements are not put on the car alone?

and could you let me know why you can't accept that some users here don't share the same opinion about Mr. Vettel's skills?
If you like him and believe he is underrated here ... fine: I lit a light on for your fight of more humanity here ...

[Ed Harley]

You have misunderstood completely. I accept fully that some people do not consider Mr Vettel - a four time F1 world champion - to be a good driver. That's OK, not all can be right.

The problem is that by using the same logic the achievements of one particular German multiple word champion could be questioned as well. I don't believe you will do that, though.

A world champion is best in his/hers field. A four time world champion is very rare breed.

[Greig]

You have misunderstood completely. I accept fully that some people do not consider Mr Vettel - a four time F1 world champion - to be a good driver. That's OK, not all can be right.

The problem is that by using the same logic the achievements of one particular German multiple word champion could be questioned as well. I don't believe you will do that, though.

A world champion is best in his/hers field. A four time world champion is very rare breed.

Schumacher proved himself in less than the greatest cars, which is the main obvious difference that even you should have seen before trying to compare them.

[Ed Harley]

His titles came with 1994-95 Benettons and 2000-2004 Ferraris, which I would not call bad cars. That is not the point, though. His titles were result of all aspects - driver, car, team - to be in very good shape and in sync. Sort of like with Vettel's four titles.

[Greig]

His titles came with 1994-95 Benettons and 2000-2004 Ferraris, which I would not call bad cars. That is not the point, though. His titles were result of all aspects - driver, car, team - to be in very good shape and in sync. Sort of like with Vettel's four titles.

You seemed to have missed the point, he proved himself when not in the best of cars when he never won titles.

[Ed Harley]

Many people have proven themselves with less than good cars. Take for example Olivier Panis who won Monaco in 1996 in a Ligier. Not all of them - and to be honest, very few of them - become champions, though.

[Greig]

Many people have proven themselves with less than good cars. Take for example Olivier Panis who won Monaco in 1996 in a Ligier. Not all of them - and to be honest, very few of them - become champions, though.

Really you consider 1 race win in pretty unique circumstances as proving something over a career?

As it happens the accident at Canada ruined what looked like being a very good career for Panis. But again you seem to have missed the point.

[Ed Harley]

No. But one win may be all you'll ever achieve and perhaps not even that one win or a single point - there are hundreds of F1 drivers who have never won one single race and never will.

The Benetton as well as Ferrari were developed into title winning teams/cars with MSc. RBR did the same with SV. I applaud to what they all achieved.

[Greig]

No. But one win may be all you'll ever achieve and perhaps not even that one win or a single point - there are hundreds of F1 drivers who have never won one single race and never will.

The Benetton as well as Ferrari were developed into title winning teams/cars with MSc. RBR did the same with SV. I applaud to what they all achieved.

Again you miss the point maybe it's on purpose?

MS proved himself in cars that were not good enough to win titles. Vettel certainly has not.

[Ed Harley]

I beg to disagree.

[Greig]

Ok, I could ask for some evidence of this but we know it does not exist so what would be the point :-)

[Ed Harley]

Well, it took me few seconds to find a nice re-cap of his career so far.

[Greig]

Well that sure proves your point. I can find a re-cap of anyone's career does not mean they have proved themselves.

[Ed Harley]

We were not talking about everybody but SV. But you have your opinion and I have mine.

[Greig]

We were not talking about everybody but SV. But you have your opinion and I have mine.

Oh right, well he has not proven himself in cars that don't win titles.

[Ed Harley]

Well, there we disagree again.

[Greig]

Well, there we disagree again.

How about you give me 20 races when SV proved himself in a car that did not win the title?

You can refer to your well found career re-cap if need be.

[Brembo]

no 2, if Rubens was there we wouldnt of won all those WCC.;-)

:-G

Your so right+ I stand corrected, please let me pass! :rotfl

[radosav]

If Ricciardo was mediocre driver with mediocre results this season everyone would think that RB10 was awful car and that it can't win title and Vettel would have alibi. Thanks god that Ric is very good.

[Ed Harley]

How about you give me 20 races when SV proved himself in a car that did not win the title?

You can refer to your well found career re-cap if need be.
Just 20?

[Bertie]

In my opinion a great driver doesn't get thrashed by his teammate.

[Greig]

Just 20?

Yes just 20, over to you.

[Ed Harley]

Just to name a few:

- 2005 Formula F3 Euro series race 11
- 2005 Formula F3 Euro series race 14
- 2005 Formula F3 Euro series race 15
- 2005 Formula F3 Euro series race 16
- 2005 Formula F3 Euro series race 17
- 2005 Formula F3 Euro series race 20
- 2006 Formula Renault 3.5 Series race 6
- 2006 Formula Renault 3.5 Series race 7
- 2006 F1 Hungarian Grand Prix
- 2006 F1 Italian Grand Prix
- 2007 Formula Renault 3.5 Series race 2
- 2007 Formula Renault 3.5 Series race 3
- 2007 Formula Renault 3.5 Series race 5
- 2007 Formula Renault 3.5 Series race 7
- 2007 F1 United States Grand Prix
- 2007 F1 Chinese Grand Prix
- 2008 F1 Monaco Grand Prix
- 2008 F1 Canadian Grand Prix
- 2008 F1 German Grand Prix
- 2008 F1 Spanish Grand Prix
- 2008 F1 Belgian Grand Prix
- 2008 F1 Italian Grand Prix

[Hornet]

If you have some chance to give some feedback when the car is designed, maybe there is less adapting needed..

The regulations and competition isn't going to wait around for the driver to get cozy with the car. If a driver cannot quickly adept, then he isn't a great driver. It's as simple as that.

A change in technical regulations is one of the biggest test to a driver's adaptability. Regardless of what feedback or how many Adrian Newey you have, these rule changes had a huge impact on the car's handling that cannot be negated by car design. EBD is gone, acceleration becomes more unstable, it is the duty of the driver to adept their driving to these new characteristic.

[Greig]

Just to name a few:

- 2005 Formula F3 Euro series race 11
- 2005 Formula F3 Euro series race 14
- 2005 Formula F3 Euro series race 15
- 2005 Formula F3 Euro series race 16
- 2005 Formula F3 Euro series race 17
- 2005 Formula F3 Euro series race 20
- 2006 Formula Renault 3.5 Series race 6
- 2006 Formula Renault 3.5 Series race 7
- 2006 F1 Hungarian Grand Prix
- 2006 F1 Italian Grand Prix
- 2007 Formula Renault 3.5 Series race 2
- 2007 Formula Renault 3.5 Series race 3
- 2007 Formula Renault 3.5 Series race 5
- 2007 Formula Renault 3.5 Series race 7
- 2007 F1 United States Grand Prix
- 2007 F1 Chinese Grand Prix
- 2008 F1 Monaco Grand Prix
- 2008 F1 Canadian Grand Prix
- 2008 F1 German Grand Prix
- 2008 F1 Spanish Grand Prix
- 2008 F1 Belgian Grand Prix
- 2008 F1 Italian Grand Prix

LOL @ non F1 races, Hungary and Monza 2006 he did not even race yet he proved himself?

[Ed Harley]

"Just to name a few."

No, he did something else.

[Greig]

"Just to name a few."

No, he did something else.

So the question was name 20 races he proved himself, you named 2 that he did not race in. And a bunch of non F1 races, I can see this is going well for you.

[Ed Harley]

Was I supposed to name F1 races?

[impactX]

Not sure why there is any disagreement when the four-time World Champion is humbled by a rookie this year.

[Brembo]

Not sure why there is any disagreement when the four-time World Champion is humbled by a rookie this year.

Your'e absolutely correct. He can't catch his teamate while still with the same team. RB's rocketship is gone and their now blessed with a great rookie in an ok car, and a not so great Vettel in an ok car. His finger is being well rested this year.

[TonyRizza]

id pay to see vettel and alonso in the same team, would really show the true value of vettels titles

[impactX]

It is a bit like paying to see Kimi and Fernando in the same team. I actually rate Lewis a lot higher as a driver due to their battles in 2007.

[Stormsearcher]

It is a bit like paying to see Kimi and Fernando in the same team. I actually rate Lewis a lot higher as a driver due to their battles in 2007.

well, we kinda know the result of that confrontation (though the season is not over yet, and i feel there is more to come from kimi). Now bring them in one by one. :lol vettel, lewis, rosberg, button....