The best Formula One driver of all time according to SCIENCE

[jragona]

Saw this article and thought you guys might find this interesting:

The best Formula One driver of all time according to SCIENCE (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3539605/Who-best-Formula-One-driver-time-Experts-use-maths-rank-F1-s-greatest-stars-results-unexpected-winner.html)

A new study claims to have worked out who is the all-time greatest driver
It is based on driver skill and counters for the effect of the car's team
Some of F1's greats fail to make the top 20, replaced by relative unknowns
According to the researchers, it shows how things might have been very different if some of these drivers had different teams

What do you think?

[Fireblade]

"while the effect of a driver's team has increased over time, when it comes to the street circuits driver's skill is still the winning factor."

Complete nonsense. Winning at Monaco or Valencia or Singapore is not more dependent on driver skill than is winning at Spa or Monza or Suzuka.

You also can't compare drivers by looking at their teammates. Who was the better driver - Giancarlo Fisichella, Mark Webber, or Jos Verstappen? It's unanswerable. And you can't separate a "team" from the driver who is a part of the team, as Bell claims to do.

[Ste]

Absolute tosh.

[Nick Singer]

Absolute tosh.

#DailyMail

[GamD]

So true lo.

[Brembo]

Fangio raced and took a podium at 46 yrs. old. Tragedy cut Ayrton Senna short. I believe Senna was the best ever driver in F1.

[SS454]

Always an interesting topic, and everyone will have their own opinion on the subject. So of course having my own opinions, I think the results are rubbish, but its worth noting that in virtually any best driver list you always see the same group of guys. Fangio, Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Clark, and now having earned his place... Alonso.

My take on Fangio is I can never rank him #1 because he raced in a day when it was a bunch of rich guys racing around for the most part as a hobby. Like all racing at the time, F1 hadn't developed into the competitive sport seen decades later. So Fangio who didn't drive junkers, was better than a lot of terrible drivers. However, at the time these terrible drivers would still be considered good, and thus Fangio dominating over these other gents naturally must be considered and to me puts him cleanly in the top 10 of any list.

I'll say it again though, its really only fair to rank drivers as best of their own era. It's unrealistic and unfair to compare drivers of different eras, with different rules, different cars, different competition, etc. It'd be naive to think Senna could just hop into today's cars and be competitive, much less a champion. Drivers are getting better all the time, and the help of driving simulators and racing games gives a huge advantage. A tool that wasn't available back in the day.

[Stormy]

a bunch of rich guys racing around for the most part as a hobby.
A pretty deadly hobby you must say.

[SS454]

A pretty deadly hobby you must say.

I don't think anyone can question the sacks on drivers back in the day.

[Brembo]

I believe the same holds true with regards to todays top drivers just hopping into say Senna's car of that time and being as competitive as if in todays F1 car.

[Stormsearcher]

Interesting read! While not entirely agreeable, i think there is a logic to it.
Dont think Prost is better than Alonso and dont agree SV is better than LH.

[Kristof_F40]

Always difficult to compare drivers in different teams and different era's etc.. Some things can be true but others aren't I think.
I think it's great that Prost is placed so high, because in my opinion a lot of people don't give him enough credit and they are Always talking about Senna. Prost is one of the best overall drivers of all time in my opinion

[MasterTifosi]

I'm sick and tired of people trying to humiliate and trivialize Michael. I have watched Alain Prost, Fernando Alonso, Ayrton Senna, Nelson Piquet, Emerson Fittipaldi with my own eyes. I must be blind or fool not to conceive that any of these drivers are more talented or successful than Michael -with the exception of Senna-

[SS454]

I believe the same holds true with regards to todays top drivers just hopping into say Senna's car of that time and being as competitive as if in todays F1 car.

While I believe that today's drivers are absolutely better than ever before, simply as with time people (including race car drivers) evolve and are forced to keep getting better. Having said that, I think it would be quite a shock for a young gun like Max Verstappen to take the wheel of a car from the 80s. Big power, big turbo lag, low downforce, crappier tires, and shift your own gears. Not to mention putting a driver from today where it's "easy" to drive and is very safe, go back to the 50s and 60s. Driving skill might be there, but would anyone be willing to push to the absolute limit knowing that a crash could easily become a fatality?

[TigerKing]

Although I am a huge Schumi fan I can see why they placed him at number three. For 2002 and 2004 he was given the best car so his results are somewhat inflated. Hamilton should be much lower because he has always been given the best car and Vettel should also be lower (but he is proving his skills at Ferrari with an inferior car). Fangio at number one is quite surprising and I completely agree with Prost being at the upper end of drivers. Prost is the most underrated driver because he was the rival of popular Ayrton Senna (who was a king himself but i still think Prost did more during his career). Prost came in second place in WDC by a small margin multiple times and yet still was four time champion. His calibre is only comparable to Schumacher.
Hamilton and Vettel's stats are not comparable to the drivers of the late 70s to the mid 90s because competition is severely lopsided now.

[Kristof_F40]

Although I am a huge Schumi fan I can see why they placed him at number three. For 2002 and 2004 he was given the best car so his results are somewhat inflated. Hamilton should be much lower because he has always been given the best car and Vettel should also be lower (but he is proving his skills at Ferrari with an inferior car). Fangio at number one is quite surprising and I completely agree with Prost being at the upper end of drivers. Prost is the most underrated driver because he was the rival of popular Ayrton Senna (who was a king himself but i still think Prost did more during his career). Prost came in second place in WDC by a small margin multiple times and yet still was four time champion. His calibre is only comparable to Schumacher.
Hamilton and Vettel's stats are not comparable to the drivers of the late 70s to the mid 90s because competition is severely lopsided now.

Agree,
The thing with Schumi is: he has had the best car for a few races, but (!) in these years he also dominated like hell. Most importantly he has Always been upthere, didn't matter which car.. for instance 1996. For me the most impressive thing about Schumi was his speed during a race, he was able to doe qualy lap after qualy lap in certain stint to ultimatly win the race.

Senna is "overhyped" because there is something mythically about him. Don't get me wrong, he is one of the best drivers ever. He was super fast on one lap, but he was also a bit paranoid, Always thinking about conspiracy etc. Because of his attitude and his early death, there's something special about him. And there was something special about him. The laps he could do were just insane.
Because of this people often look down on Prost. But the thing is that Prost's carreer started earlier than Senna's. Prost already showed his insane speed as a young guy. But he also saw some of his friends die in his sport. After these events he still continued to race, but never faster than necessary. Still, what he as achieved: wins, podiums, championships (also 2nd places), it's incredible. You have to think about it: this was 80's and 90's, reliability was something else then nowadays.
Schumi beat Prost in records, because Schumi is also one of the best drivers ever.
However, Lewis and Seb coming close in my opinion isn't the same considering the fact they've had dominant cars without a teammate that amde life real though for them. Also there are more races in a season now and reliability is better now.

Obviously these kind of things aren't right. But I was really happy to see Prost getting credit.
An other thing about Prost: he's a very humble person in my opinion. He knew Senna was faster on one lap because he took risks Prost wasn't willing to take, and he knew people liked Senna better, but still he remained a kind person.

[fmatiasii]

it's more of a science FICTION to me :-D :lol :haha:

[SS454]

Senna is "overhyped" because there is something mythically about him.

A statement like that will typically cause a lot of friction with the Senna-believers. I however completely agree. One of the best, absolutely. #1... not to me.

I do however think Vettel deserves more credit, at least more than I want to give him. It was always easy to dismiss Vettel's success and say it was all down to the Red Bull dominance but he took full advantage of a dominant car and had extremely dominant seasons. I've realized he's the type of driver that tends to get the max out of the car in almost every race.

[Kristof_F40]

A statement like that will typically cause a lot of friction with the Senna-believers. I however completely agree. One of the best, absolutely. #1... not to me.

I do however think Vettel deserves more credit, at least more than I want to give him. It was always easy to dismiss Vettel's success and say it was all down to the Red Bull dominance but he took full advantage of a dominant car and had extremely dominant seasons. I've realized he's the type of driver that tends to get the max out of the car in almost every race.

Personnaly I didn't gave Vettel any credit when he was at RBR. I've done it more since he joined Ferrari, mostly because of his attitude, the way he talks and motivates the team has really surprised me. On the track: he's good, he's fast and he knows what to do etc. However, he has made some small mistakes last year, and this year, not much, but very small thing. If I look back at the Alonso-Ferrari era, Alonso almost never made mistakes and he really got the best out of a car. Don't get me wrong, Seb is one of the best drivers out there.. I personnaly still believe Alonso is the best driver on the grid and amongst the best of all time

[abbottcostello]

Trying to rate drivers within their period of time - a near impossible task.
Case in point, Vettel & Hamilton... Many here readily discount the "value" of their WDC titles due to the machinery they drove whilst winning them (better add that I am guilty of doing this too!).
Racing in the same car doesn't even seem to discourage some people from pointing out unfair advantages the winner of a team battle had that allowed him to prevail over his teammate.
It is never a "level" playing field, for example - many think Prost had a rather too close relationship with some within the FIA that may have affected some of the race penalty decisions. Drove me crazy that Seb was said to play backgammon with Bernie E before most races! (what evil plans transpired during this time they shared :lol )

Trying to rate drivers over the entire history of the sport - flat-out impossible.

I try to appreciate them for what they did, the way they did it, the qualities & personality traits they brought to the game. Single one out as the ultimate of all time, sorry I just can't do that!

[Kristof_F40]

Trying to rate drivers within their period of time - a near impossible task.
Case in point, Vettel & Hamilton... Many here readily discount the "value" of their WDC titles due to the machinery they drove whilst winning them (better add that I am guilty of doing this too!).
Racing in the same car doesn't even seem to discourage some people from pointing out unfair advantages the winner of a team battle had that allowed him to prevail over his teammate.
It is never a "level" playing field, for example - many think Prost had a rather too close relationship with some within the FIA that may have affected some of the race penalty decisions. Drove me crazy that Seb was said to play backgammon with Bernie E before most races! (what evil plans transpired during this time they shared :lol )

Trying to rate drivers over the entire history of the sport - flat-out impossible.

I try to appreciate them for what they did, the way they did it, the qualities & personality traits they brought to the game. Single one out as the ultimate of all time, sorry I just can't do that!

Indeed,
I also try to look at what a driver did in his time.. For instance, in my opinion Gilles Villeneuves is a legend. He is not the best driver of all time, but there was something about him, his speed, his need to win. He "only" has 6 wins, still people remember him for his races. Alesi only has one win, but he could have won so much more. Nigel Mansell only has one WDC, but man, that guy was a fighter, ...

[aroutis]

Schumacher is the "monster" of F1 and always berated because he is remembered as a driver for Ferrari when it so happened to dominate with the perfect team while the other teams most of the time were incapable to put up a fight.
But people for some reason tend to forget that this team was built around him for a reason; that being that he was simply out of his league, the only driver able to put up a fight with him was Mika and just a few more.
His driving skills were intimidating and as far as I am concerned, it was not even spain 1996 when he simply drove probably a race that is left in the history of the sport, but after returning from an injury at Sepang , what he did there signaled to the competition the single fact that he is without equal.

It is for these facts and oh so many more that even if people should not compare drivers from different eras, that Michael is till this day at least the best driver of all times.

[Giallo 550]

Personnaly I didn't gave Vettel any credit when he was at RBR. I've done it more since he joined Ferrari, mostly because of his attitude, the way he talks and motivates the team has really surprised me. On the track: he's good, he's fast and he knows what to do etc. However, he has made some small mistakes last year, and this year, not much, but very small thing. If I look back at the Alonso-Ferrari era, Alonso almost never made mistakes and he really got the best out of a car. Don't get me wrong, Seb is one of the best drivers out there.. I personnaly still believe Alonso is the best driver on the grid and amongst the best of all time

I agree with this 100%. Hopefully, Vettel will become more Alonso-esque as his skills mature over the next few years. Nevertheless he is a four-time champion, and deserves respect.

[Brembo]

How much greater a champion would Lewis be, winning if he had the likes of " The legend " Jean Todt, and Ross Brawn holding Nico back, letting Lewis pass at every available chance. ?,

[DelMar]

How much greater a champion would Lewis be, winning if he had the likes of " The legend " Jean Todt, and Ross Brawn holding Nico back, letting Lewis pass at every available chance. ?,
He already had Kovalainen for that purpose. Besides he would have still been the guy who had been outscored by Button...

[Brembo]

He already had Kovalainen for that purpose. Besides he would have still been the guy who had been outscored by Button...
Alonso had Lewis as a #2 guy, but I believe he didn't need any help being the great driver he is. 2010, 2012 lewis beat Button finishing 4th. Lewis not Button is the greatest British driver in F1 history so far with most victories and 3rd on the all time win list "143 !!" What Lewis wears and where he goes off track should be " Who cares." All said, when Ferrari gives Seb the best car they can, Lewis will be 2nd to Seb.

[doublesixes]

Fangio, hands down. Different times, of course but back then the driver took a more important roll than today in terms of team and tech sophistication therefore placing more weight on the human aspect of performance.