Rate the drivers on the grid

[IulianFerrari]

Here we are in the summer break and silly season is in full mode. So much talk about the drivers and who goes where.
I propose to rate the drivers on the grid, based mostly on the season they have had so far.

Here are my ratings:

1) Hamilton 2) Vettel 3) Ricciardo 4) Raikkonen 5) Alonso 6) Bottas 7) Verstappen 8) Hulkenberg 9) Gasly 10) Leclerc 11) Perez 12) Sainz 13) Magnussen 14) Ocon 15) Grosjean 16) Vandoorne 17) Stroll 18) Ericsson 19) Hartley 20) Sirotkin

Seb without the Germany mistake would have been first. Kimi with a win would have been 3rd. Verstappen to many mistakes, only 7th. Gasly impressive in the 9th best car deserved his 9th, maybe even more. Leclerc doing well in the Sauber. Magnussen doing at least what that Haas is capable of, Grosjean to many mistakes. Williams drivers not doing that car any favors.

[Marin123X]

1.Hamilton 2.Seb 3.Leclerc 4.Hulkenberg 5.Magnussen 6.Kimi 7.Gasly 8.Alonso 9.Ricciardo 10.Verstappen 11.Bottas 12.Perez 13.Ocon 14.Grosjean 15.Hartley 16.Vandoorne 17.Hartley 18.Sirotkin 19.Ericsson 20.Stroll

If Seb didnt have some mistakes(Germany,France,Baku) he would definitely be n1. but he showed incredible speed,courage and humility and with Ferrari being (hopefully) better in 2nd part we can win both championships.
PS. Kimi should stay at least one more year 8 podiums in 12 races and he had 2 DNFs and wasnt quite lucky.I still think Charles needs time to be a Ferrari driver, he would be a good replacement to Crashjean in Haas next year and it would be nice to get Antonio in Sauber next year and kick out stupid boring slow rich Ericsson.

[chinmay]

Here is my rating for drivers not based on current season but overall:

1) Sebastian Vettel
2) Max Verstappen
3) Fernando Alonso
4) Lewis Hamilton
5) Daniel Ricciardo
6) Valtteri Bottas
7) Kimi Raikkonen
8) Charles Leclerc
9) Nico Hulkenberg
10) Esteban Ocon
11) Sergio Perez
12) Carlos Sainz / Kevin Magnussen / Romain Grosjean
15) Stoffel Vandoorne / Pierre Gasly
17-20) Brendon Hartley / Sergy Sirotkin / Marcus Ericcson / Lance Stroll

Of the above, Leclerc's rating is bound to improve as time passes.

Here is my rating based on current season:

1) Sebastian Vettel (performances like Bahrain, Baku (fantastic performance despite strong winds, other drivers including Hamilton went off), Montreal, Spain qualifying, Austria tyre management)
2) Charles Leclerc (putting the Sauber where it doesn't belong multiple times)
3) Fernando Alonso (same as Leclerc)
4) Nico Hulkenberg (can't beat top 3 teams but can beat others and is beating them)
5) Valtteri Bottas (nothing to separate him and Hamilton in qualifying and has been the better Mercedes driver but luck costing him big time)
6) All others can fight from now on based on their occasional strong performances

Now the rating based solely on luck:

1) Lewis Hamilton (Baku, Silverstone, Germany, Hungary)
2-18) Other drivers
19) Valtteri Bottas (losing despite in winning position like China, Baku, Austria)
20) Sebastian Vettel (Bottas was in winning position in the first place is due to the terrible bad luck of Vettel, whenever Vettel is in prime position to get pole or win, something out of his control will happen most of the times)

[mwk360]

Here is my rating for drivers not based on current season but overall:

1) Sebastian Vettel
2) Max Verstappen
3) Fernando Alonso
4) Lewis Hamilton
5) Daniel Ricciardo
6) Valtteri Bottas
7) Kimi Raikkonen
8) Charles Leclerc
9) Nico Hulkenberg
10) Esteban Ocon
11) Sergio Perez
12) Carlos Sainz / Kevin Magnussen / Romain Grosjean
15) Stoffel Vandoorne / Pierre Gasly
17-20) Brendon Hartley / Sergy Sirotkin / Marcus Ericcson / Lance Stroll

Of the above, Leclerc's rating is bound to improve as time passes.

Here is my rating based on current season:

1) Sebastian Vettel (performances like Bahrain, Baku (fantastic performance despite strong winds, other drivers including Hamilton went off), Montreal, Spain qualifying, Austria tyre management)
2) Charles Leclerc (putting the Sauber where it doesn't belong multiple times)
3) Fernando Alonso (same as Leclerc)
4) Nico Hulkenberg (can't beat top 3 teams but can beat others and is beating them)
5) Valtteri Bottas (nothing to separate him and Hamilton in qualifying and has been the better Mercedes driver but luck costing him big time)
6) All others can fight from now on based on their occasional strong performances

Now the rating based solely on luck:

1) Lewis Hamilton (Baku, Silverstone, Germany, Hungary)
2-18) Other drivers
19) Valtteri Bottas (losing despite in winning position like China, Baku, Austria)
20) Sebastian Vettel (Bottas was in winning position in the first place is due to the terrible bad luck of Vettel, whenever Vettel is in prime position to get pole or win, something out of his control will happen most of the times)

Nice, i like this, i think Dani ric and hulkenberg is better than lewy, but yeah 200% truth mostly lol

[FerrariSteve]

Here is my rating for drivers not based on current season but overall:

1) Sebastian Vettel
2) Max Verstappen
3) Fernando Alonso
4) Lewis Hamilton
5) Daniel Ricciardo
6) Valtteri Bottas
7) Kimi Raikkonen
8) Charles Leclerc
9) Nico Hulkenberg
10) Esteban Ocon
11) Sergio Perez
12) Carlos Sainz / Kevin Magnussen / Romain Grosjean
15) Stoffel Vandoorne / Pierre Gasly
17-20) Brendon Hartley / Sergy Sirotkin / Marcus Ericcson / Lance Stroll

Of the above, Leclerc's rating is bound to improve as time passes.

Here is my rating based on current season:

1) Sebastian Vettel (performances like Bahrain, Baku (fantastic performance despite strong winds, other drivers including Hamilton went off), Montreal, Spain qualifying, Austria tyre management)
2) Charles Leclerc (putting the Sauber where it doesn't belong multiple times)
3) Fernando Alonso (same as Leclerc)
4) Nico Hulkenberg (can't beat top 3 teams but can beat others and is beating them)
5) Valtteri Bottas (nothing to separate him and Hamilton in qualifying and has been the better Mercedes driver but luck costing him big time)
6) All others can fight from now on based on their occasional strong performances

Now the rating based solely on luck:

1) Lewis Hamilton (Baku, Silverstone, Germany, Hungary)
2-18) Other drivers
19) Valtteri Bottas (losing despite in winning position like China, Baku, Austria)
20) Sebastian Vettel (Bottas was in winning position in the first place is due to the terrible bad luck of Vettel, whenever Vettel is in prime position to get pole or win, something out of his control will happen most of the times)

I pretty much agree with this^
but I'd put Alonso ahead of Max and Bottas 2-3 places further down.

[aroutis]

Current grid order..
1) Sebastian Vettel
2) Lewis Hamilton
3) Daniel Ricciardo
4) Kimi Raikkonen
5) Max Verstappen
6) Charles Leclerc / Fernando Alonso
7) Valtteri Bottas / Nico Hulkenberg
8) Esteban Ocon / Sergio Perez
9) Carlos Sainz / Kevin Magnussen / Romain Grosjean
10) Pierre Gasly
11) Stoffel Vandoorne /
12-15) Brendon Hartley / Sergy Sirotkin / Marcus Ericcson / Lance Stroll

[wisepie]

Based on current season so far....and not taking into account points tally.
1) VET (despite some errors)
2) RIC (always feisty)
3) HAM (I hate to say it)
4) RAI (loses out at starts)
5) BOT (keeps up with HAM sometimes and had bad luck)
6) VES (now starting to grow up)
7) LEC (our hopeful future)
8) ALO (never gives up)
9) HUL (best of the rest efforts)
10) GAS (great future)
11) MAG (a bit wild)
12) OCO (consistent)
13) SAI (moody but quick)
15) ERI (better lately)
16) GRO (too accident-prone and always moaning)
17) VAN (overshadowed and possibly overlooked)
18) HAR (not bad considering the car and engine woes)
19) STR (Not sure he should be in F1)
20) SIR (car too bad to make much comment)

[Ed Harley]

It is all here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Formula_One_World_Championship#World_Drivers' _Championship_standings

[FerrariF60]

It is all here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Formula_One_World_Championship#World_Drivers' _Championship_standings

LOL....but you're right....it's right there, black on white....ha, ha...

[IulianFerrari]

It is all here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Formula_One_World_Championship#World_Drivers' _Championship_standings

It says here Grosjean has been better than Leclerc... Are you sure it's there?

[Ed Harley]

Which one of them has more points?

[IulianFerrari]

Which one of them has more points?

Grosjean has more points. Does this mean to you he had a better season than Leclerc?

[Rishu]

Season report card taking into consideration cars they are driving:

Hamilton
Leclerc
Vettel
Verstappen
Raikkonen

[Fireblade]

Which one of them has more points?


Which one has the stewards falling all over themselves to assist him? Professional wresting is less rigged than this.

[mwk360]

Which one has the stewards falling all over themselves to assist him? Professional wresting is less rigged than this.

lol very true :lol

[Bonecrasher]

Here is my rating for drivers not based on current season but overall:

1) Sebastian Vettel
2) Max Verstappen
3) Fernando Alonso
4) Lewis Hamilton
5) Daniel Ricciardo
6) Valtteri Bottas
7) Kimi Raikkonen
8) Charles Leclerc
9) Nico Hulkenberg
10) Esteban Ocon
11) Sergio Perez
12) Carlos Sainz / Kevin Magnussen / Romain Grosjean
15) Stoffel Vandoorne / Pierre Gasly
17-20) Brendon Hartley / Sergy Sirotkin / Marcus Ericcson / Lance Stroll

Of the above, Leclerc's rating is bound to improve as time passes.

Here is my rating based on current season:

1) Sebastian Vettel (performances like Bahrain, Baku (fantastic performance despite strong winds, other drivers including Hamilton went off), Montreal, Spain qualifying, Austria tyre management)
2) Charles Leclerc (putting the Sauber where it doesn't belong multiple times)
3) Fernando Alonso (same as Leclerc)
4) Nico Hulkenberg (can't beat top 3 teams but can beat others and is beating them)
5) Valtteri Bottas (nothing to separate him and Hamilton in qualifying and has been the better Mercedes driver but luck costing him big time)
6) All others can fight from now on based on their occasional strong performances

Now the rating based solely on luck:

1) Lewis Hamilton (Baku, Silverstone, Germany, Hungary)
2-18) Other drivers
19) Valtteri Bottas (losing despite in winning position like China, Baku, Austria)
20) Sebastian Vettel (Bottas was in winning position in the first place is due to the terrible bad luck of Vettel, whenever Vettel is in prime position to get pole or win, something out of his control will happen most of the times)

I think you are being generous with Vettel there. Dude has the Fastest car and still he is behind with only 9 races to go. Schumacher would be close to wrapping up the championship with several races to spare in such a dominant car.

[chinmay]

I think you are being generous with Vettel there. Dude has the Fastest car and still he is behind with only 9 races to go. Schumacher would be close to wrapping up the championship with several races to spare in such a dominant car.

Had Ferrari signed me instead of Vettel, I would have wrapped up title already, such is the dominance of SF71H. :lol

[IulianFerrari]

I think you are being generous with Vettel there. Dude has the Fastest car and still he is behind with only 9 races to go. Schumacher would be close to wrapping up the championship with several races to spare in such a dominant car.
Such a dominant car? Where? Did I miss the whole season? We are on par with Mercedes and have been all year. One or the other have been in front and maybe we are now, but it is far from domination. Maybe I need to remind you of what a dominant car does... Last example is Mercedes 2016, winning 19 of 21 races. In the 2 lost races, they crashed being 1st and 2nd(Spain), and in the other a crash for one driver, and car failure for the other while leading the race(Malayasian GP). That is domination, my friend...

[Brembo]

Had Ferrari signed me instead of Vettel, I would have wrapped up title already, such is the dominance of SF71H. :lol

There's still time! Go for it!

[Greig]

Such a dominant car? Where? Did I miss the whole season? We are on par with Mercedes and have been all year. One or the other have been in front and maybe we are now, but it is far from domination. Maybe I need to remind you of what a dominant car does... Last example is Mercedes 2016, winning 19 of 21 races. In the 2 lost races, they crashed being 1st and 2nd(Spain), and in the other a crash for one driver, and car failure for the other while leading the race(Malayasian GP). That is domination, my friend...


Lewis fans are trying to suggest he is leading the title in the 2nd best car, the truth is as you said not the fantasy of Lewis fans.

[Bonecrasher]

Lewis fans are trying to suggest he is leading the title in the 2nd best car, the truth is as you said not the fantasy of Lewis fans.
No if you put fandom aside a bit and be honest it’s pretty hard to categorically claim that Vettel has put in the best performance so far this season in the best car. Leclerc and Alonso for example have been phenomenal. All opinions are valid, but not equally so.

[Brembo]

Best car? A toss up every race it seems. Worse car , Max's car. Seb or Lewis in Max's car; and Max in either of their cars, a new 20 yr. old WDC contender for sure.

[Bonecrasher]

Best car? A toss up every race it seems. Worse car , Max's car. Seb or Lewis in Max's car; and Max in either of their cars, a new 20 yr. old WDC contender for sure.
Yes best car. Ferrari are not inept as people like to portray. They are a great team so why is it so hard to believe that they can do better than Redbull and Mercedes? Sometimes you even wonder if certain people here are truly Ferrari fans the way they talk down the car. Marchionne did a really good job rebuilding why won’t people acknowledge the fruits of his labour. This constant barrage of negative posts talking down the car is becoming tedious when it is universally accepted that finally Ferrari have overhauled Mercedes.

[Brembo]

Yes best car. Ferrari are not inept as people like to portray. They are a great team so why is it so hard to believe that they can do better than Redbull and Mercedes? Sometimes you even wonder if certain people here are truly Ferrari fans the way they talk down the car. Marchionne did a really good job rebuilding why won’t people acknowledge the fruits of his labour. This constant barrage of negative posts talking down the car is becoming tedious when it is universally accepted that finally Ferrari have overhauled Mercedes.

I couldn't agree more! Your being kind saying certain people rather than most fans here . I believe it's because they are driver; WDC fans; and not WCC fans. Talking down the car gives these driver1st fans an excuse when their driver doesn't get pole or win or even see the podium. Esp. when it's their hero's error. Yes Ferrari finally has overhauled as you say, Merc, now we need the driver to put the car on pole and finish 1st!! For me either driver will do, WCC is where it's at.

[Greig]

No if you put fandom aside a bit and be honest it’s pretty hard to categorically claim that Vettel has put in the best performance so far this season in the best car. Leclerc and Alonso for example have been phenomenal. All opinions are valid, but not equally so.

Seb does not have a dominant car as you are trying to suggest.

[KimiBot]

Interesting to see RIC and Hulk fight next year.

VER and Sainz was almost equal and now Hulk is far ahead Sainz, and RIC and VER is like equal.

[mwk360]

Such a dominant car? Where? Did I miss the whole season? We are on par with Mercedes and have been all year. One or the other have been in front and maybe we are now, but it is far from domination. Maybe I need to remind you of what a dominant car does... Last example is Mercedes 2016, winning 19 of 21 races. In the 2 lost races, they crashed being 1st and 2nd(Spain), and in the other a crash for one driver, and car failure for the other while leading the race(Malayasian GP). That is domination, my friend...

100%

[mwk360]

Interesting to see RIC and Hulk fight next year.

VER and Sainz was almost equal and now Hulk is far ahead Sainz, and RIC and VER is like equal.

I hope Hulk can beat him or be almost equal, i really like Hulk

[KimiBot]

I hope Hulk can beat him or be almost equal, i really like Hulk

Hulk can have a chance for a better team, if he beats RIC.

[mwk360]

Hulk can have a chance for a better team, if he beats RIC.

hehe crossing my fingers hulk beats him, that will help give everyone the better picture of how consistent and talented he is, would love it too if Sainz or Gastly beats Max too :-D lol:pray

[IulianFerrari]

Seb does not have a dominant car as you are trying to suggest.

Nothing worse than a Hamilton fanboy. Met them on other forums, and every single one of them moaning about how Ferrari have a dominant car and how louise is doing wonders. So glad Rosberg took that one from him.

[Brembo]

Nothing worse than a Hamilton fanboy. Met them on other forums, and every single one of them moaning about how Ferrari have a dominant car and how louise is doing wonders. So glad Rosberg took that one from him.

Winning in Germany from 14th place is doing wonders even if it's Lewis fault it rained. Had Kimi not moved over for Seb that race when he did , who knows ? Maybe a win. But would Seb Fanboys even care? Ferrari WCC is what needs to happen!

[IulianFerrari]

Winning in Germany from 14th place is doing wonders even if it's Lewis fault it rained. Had Kimi not moved over for Seb that race when he did , who knows ? Maybe a win. But would Seb Fanboys even care? Ferrari WCC is what needs to happen!

It was a good race by hamilton but just good. Anyone can pass the cars that are not top 3(ex Kimi did it also) ... As for the top 3 teams, lewis never passed a single one of them that race. A series of luck, good judgement by the pit crew, bad judgement by other's pit crew(Kimi, Max) and personal mistakes by others(Seb) and another call from own team(a faster Bottas to stand down) . So lewis just had decent pace and passed much slower cars in that race... He is not in a league of his own like his fans make him out to be, that's all i am saying.

[racingbradley]

Which one has the stewards falling all over themselves to assist him? Professional wresting is less rigged than this.

Agree:roll:-)
So much so it hurts to watch sometimes and don't forget Charlie!!!!! :roll
I cannot remember when he last had a penalty but he has earned a few along the way. :-)

[wisepie]

It was a good race by hamilton but just good. Anyone can pass the cars that are not top 3(ex Kimi did it also) ... As for the top 3 teams, lewis never passed a single one of them that race. A series of luck, good judgement by the pit crew, bad judgement by other's pit crew(Kimi, Max) and personal mistakes by others(Seb) and another call from own team(a faster Bottas to stand down) . So lewis just had decent pace and passed much slower cars in that race... He is not in a league of his own like his fans make him out to be, that's all i am saying.

Quite agree, once again the stars were aligned for HAM and we lost out, OK so Seb made a mistake and I'm still not 100% convinced we would have won in Germany given the advancing progress of the Mercs and the weather conditions, but at least Seb could have scored some points instead of none.:Hmm

[Brembo]

It was a good race by hamilton but just good. Anyone can pass the cars that are not top 3(ex Kimi did it also) ... As for the top 3 teams, lewis never passed a single one of them that race. A series of luck, good judgement by the pit crew, bad judgement by other's pit crew(Kimi, Max) and personal mistakes by others(Seb) and another call from own team(a faster Bottas to stand down) . So lewis just had decent pace and passed much slower cars in that race... He is not in a league of his own like his fans make him out to be, that's all i am saying.

OK, good luck, good pit crew judgement and horrible team orders ruin any drivers deserving praise for a win. Actually the driver should be ashamed of himself for winning.:rotfl Even worse would be winning in a top car. Seb's mistake was not Lewis" fault. I did want Bottas to win that race , but team Merc did a Ferrari 1,2 on him. Too bad.

[SS454]

1) Alonso
2) Hamilton
3) Vettel
4) Ric
5) Max
6) Leclerc

[Stormsearcher]

1. Alonso
2. Hamilton
3. Ricc
4. Max
5. Vettel
6. Kimi
7. LeClerc
8. Gasly
9. Ocon
10. Bottas

[mwk360]

Quite agree, once again the stars were aligned for HAM and we lost out, OK so Seb made a mistake and I'm still not 100% convinced we would have won in Germany given the advancing progress of the Mercs and the weather conditions, but at least Seb could have scored some points instead of none.:Hmm

yup pretty much

[Bonecrasher]

Alonso
Hamilton
Verstappen
Ricciardo
Hulkenberg
Vettel
Bottas
Raikkonen
Ocon
Perez

Special mention to Leclerc but he needs to show some skill in wet conditions first

[doublesixes]

Undoubtedly Hamilton is numero uno. Then the rest. Driving, arguably, the best car which he helped developed, he produces pole winning laps, makes the least amount of mistakes and of course is leading the championship.

There, I said it. It’s with great pain that I have to accept that 2018 may go their way. :furious

[Brembo]

Undoubtedly Hamilton is numero uno. Then the rest. Driving, arguably, the best car which he helped developed, he produces pole winning laps, makes the least amount of mistakes and of course is leading the championship.

There, I said it. It’s with great pain that I have to accept that 2018 may go their way. :furious

A truly honest and accurate post! Oh! wait! What about his off track personality? :rotfl Ferrari wise, "It ain't over till it's over!" There's hope, even if it's Kimi that brings home the points.

[The Reizo]

It was a good race by hamilton but just good. Anyone can pass the cars that are not top 3(ex Kimi did it also) ... As for the top 3 teams, lewis never passed a single one of them that race. A series of luck, good judgement by the pit crew, bad judgement by other's pit crew(Kimi, Max) and personal mistakes by others(Seb) and another call from own team(a faster Bottas to stand down) . So lewis just had decent pace and passed much slower cars in that race... He is not in a league of his own like his fans make him out to be, that's all i am saying.
Hamilton made a 41 lap stint work, stop your Hamilton bias already. TBH Hamilton is in a league of his own, Vettel certainly is not in Hamilton league.

[Greig]

Hamilton made a 41 lap stint work, stop your Hamilton bias already. TBH Hamilton is in a league of his own, Vettel certainly is not in Hamilton league.

:rotfl you are the one with Hamilton bias, does he not have his own forum?

[The Reizo]

For me Hamilton is the best hands down. Never had No1 status his whole career unlike Vettel and Alonso, second Max/Ricciardo
1. Hamilton
2. Verstappen
3. Ricciardo
4. Alonso/Räïkönen
5. Vettel

[The Reizo]

:rotfl you are the one with Hamilton bias, does he not have his own forum?

It's not a bias, it's a fact.

[Greig]

It's not a bias, it's a fact.

LOL no it's not. Again does Lewis not have his own forum?

[IulianFerrari]

Hamilton made a 41 lap stint work, stop your Hamilton bias already. TBH Hamilton is in a league of his own, Vettel certainly is not in Hamilton league.

Remember when Vettel passed Hamilton on track this season? Sure you do. Remember when Hamilton passed Vettel? Yeah, me neither...

[The Reizo]

Remember when Vettel passed Hamilton on track this season? Sure you do. Remember when Hamilton passed Vettel? Yeah, me neither...

Lol, you mean that race where Hamilton had a loss of engine power and where Hamilton gave Vettel all the space to overtake and yet Vettel almost managed to crash in Hamilton, that race ?

[ChrisFerrari]

Lol, you mean that race where Hamilton had a loss of engine power and where Hamilton gave Vettel all the space to overtake and yet Vettel almost managed to crash in Hamilton, that race ?

LH is the greatest driver of all time. There you have it. Now please take your bias to the lewishamiltonfans.com site.

[IulianFerrari]

Lol, you mean that race where Hamilton had a loss of engine power and where Hamilton gave Vettel all the space to overtake and yet Vettel almost managed to crash in Hamilton, that race ?

Stop drinking that hamilton cool aid man. If you love him that much, go talk about those dreamy eyes, or hot chainz, or whatever you like about him, on a forum dedicated to him. I can guarantee you, you will no have to many followers here. Most people on the forum dislike him but have the clear mind to see he is a good driver. He has not done himself any favors by speaking of Ferrari's INTENTIONALLY taking him out, not taking penalties when others have gotten them for significantly less and somehow, somehow he still moans about it. Neutrals have seen it too, on other forums, and I can tell you they did not like what they saw. The only people who buy into his "greatness" are silly fanboys, most of them from UK and the USA. You are preaching to the wrong crowd my friend

[Lega Verde]

1. Hamilton and Vettel - It is not coincidence that they've both won 4 WDCs and are dominant two drivers in top 2 teams

3. Bottas - I am biased, I agree. But his qualifying performances against Hamilton have been great so far. He is reliable wingman and a great asset to Mercedes. That's why I hoped that he would join Ferrari after Kimi but it is not going happen.

4. Verstappen - Future champion and so fast. Too hot headed at the moment but for pure talent and raw speed he is among the best if not the best.

5. Räikkönen - A living legend. Have been pretty solid with outdated engine. The car suits him well.

6-10 in no particular order. Alonso, LeClerc, Ricciardo, Ocon, Perez

Alonso is leaving the F1 while still in his prime. There is reason for that and because of that I can' t rate him as a top 5 driver.

Ricciardo is not leaving but the reason is bit similar. He side stepped from winning team to Renault. I think he couldn't stand the heat by losing in terms of pure speed against Verstappen.

LeClerc is a future champion, a Ferrari champion for sure. It is hard to judge how good he really is because of the mediocre teammate Ericsson and because of the leap Sauber have made.

Ocon is such a promising driver as well. He is driving very well against Perez who I rank highly as well. Great podiums (8) on previous seasons with Sauber and Force India. For example former teammate Hulkenberg has none so far despite the long career.

[TonyRizza]

both hamilton and vettel havent been the best this year imo
Vettel - made way too many mistakes and go too many penalties(some are unfair)
Hamilton - had too many weekends when hes been off the pace, most of his good results this year have been the misfortune of others

not sure who is #1 for me but its not the 4 time champs

[Brembo]

both hamilton and vettel havent been the best this year imo
Vettel - made way too many mistakes and go too many penalties(some are unfair)
Hamilton - had too many weekends when hes been off the pace, most of his good results this year have been the misfortune of others

not sure who is #1 for me but its not the 4 time champs

Not winning a race is certainly a misfortune for all drivers 2nd place and down that race. Winning the race is a good result for the winner for sure. Besides Austria 2002, no winning driver should feel bad for finishing in 1st place. Talking about misfortunes!!:rotfl

[The Reizo]

Stop drinking that hamilton cool aid man. If you love him that much, go talk about those dreamy eyes, or hot chainz, or whatever you like about him, on a forum dedicated to him. I can guarantee you, you will no have to many followers here. Most people on the forum dislike him but have the clear mind to see he is a good driver. He has not done himself any favors by speaking of Ferrari's INTENTIONALLY taking him out, not taking penalties when others have gotten them for significantly less and somehow, somehow he still moans about it. Neutrals have seen it too, on other forums, and I can tell you they did not like what they saw. The only people who buy into his "greatness" are silly fanboys, most of them from UK and the USA. You are preaching to the wrong crowd my friend

Shut your horse mouth and don't even dare talking about penalties cause Vettel had escaped too many or a very light penalty. Well Massa was ordered to destroy Hamilton's race on purpose in Singapore 2011 so i can image Hamilton saying it and Hamilton is way greater than Vettel who had it easy with his No1 status and ''easy'' teammates compared to Hamilton so don't even go there.

[mwk360]

seems like this place loves hamilton and hates vettel now lol wow, wonder how it would be if it didnt rain last two weekends tbh

[mwk360]

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/903567/1/vettel-rock-ferraris-highpressure-environment-horner

Vettel acts as a rock in Ferrari's high-pressure environment – Horner

“I think the pressure is probably a bit different at Ferrari. I think at Red Bull it was arguably a more relaxed atmosphere, he hasn’t got the nations hopes resting on his shoulders," Horner explained.

“Ferrari obviously is a different beast to operate within, [it’s] fear based and a very different environment from the outside looking in, and you can see Sebastian, he carries that pressure. He’s very much a rock within that team.”

Vettel racked up 38 victories and claimed four consecutive world championships during his Red Bull tenure, leading Horner to praise his ability, labelling him as the best driver to ever race for the Milton Keynes squad.



:-P

[Brembo]

seems like this place loves hamilton and hates vettel now lol wow, wonder how it would be if it didnt rain last two weekends tbh
If only Ferrari had a driver who can cause it to rain when he needs it ! 78 poles and still counting, rain or shine!

[chinmay]

If only Ferrari had a driver who can cause it to rain when he needs it ! 78 poles and still counting, rain or shine!

And how many did he had before 2014? Only a handful. Even Rosberg got 40 poles against Hamilton, Lance Stroll would be on 40 poles too if he was in Rosberg's place. But if Vettel was in Hamilton's Mercedes since 2014, he would have made a century already. Beast of a qualifier and racer, no wonder Toto wants him, Renault wants him, Red Bull rates him among the top 2 greatest drivers of all time.

[ManFromMilan]

1. Alonso
.
.
.
.
2.Verstappen
3.Ricciardo
4.Raikkonen
5.Vettel
6.Hulkenberg
7.Sainz
8.Hamilton
9.Ocon
10.Gasley/Leclerc


The rest honestly don't even bring anything special, especially those Haas drivers

[Bonecrasher]

I don’t think Vettel is even in the top 10 in wheel to wheel racing. Drivers like Ocon and Perez and Mugnussen would smoke him in the same car. The guy panicks like an amateur every time he is next to other cars. Ricciardo smoked him in the same car. Max smoked Ricciardo. So there is 2 guys already who are better than Vettel.

[Bonecrasher]

1. Alonso
.
.
.
.
2.Verstappen
3.Ricciardo
4.Raikkonen
5.Vettel
6.Hulkenberg
7.Sainz
8.Hamilton
9.Ocon
10.Gasley/Leclerc


The rest honestly don't even bring anything special, especially those Haas drivers
I guess Hamilton ruined too many weekends for you (68 wins?) that’s why he is so low on your list hahaha.

[IulianFerrari]

Here is how a part of the forum sees the ratings after just 2 races from the summer break:
1) Hamilton-Alonso
2) Leclerc
.
.
19) Vettel
20) Raikkonen

[Nick Singer]

Alonso is the best bar none. Shame Ferrari took too long to build him a real winner of a car.

[Brembo]

Alonso is the best bar none. Shame Ferrari took too long to build him a real winner of a car.

100% Agree! Coming up real quick is 20 yr. old Max. Ferrari ! Pay attention!

[Bonecrasher]

Here is how a part of the forum sees the ratings after just 2 races from the summer break:
1) Hamilton-Alonso
2) Leclerc
.
.
19) Vettel
20) Raikkonen
I wouldn’t say Seb and Kimi were the 2 worst but for sure they should have won both races since the Summer break. Hamilton went into the Summer with a 24 point advantage. And even though Ferrari has had the best car since coming back somehow Hamilton has managed to extend that advantage by a further 6 points. How could this happen.

[IulianFerrari]

I wouldn’t say Seb and Kimi were the 2 worst but for sure they should have won both races since the Summer break. Hamilton went into the Summer with a 24 point advantage. And even though Ferrari has had the best car since coming back somehow Hamilton has managed to extend that advantage by a further 6 points. How could this happen.

God sent, that Lewis.

[chinmay]

I don’t think Vettel is even in the top 10 in wheel to wheel racing. Drivers like Ocon and Perez and Mugnussen would smoke him in the same car. The guy panicks like an amateur every time he is next to other cars. Ricciardo smoked him in the same car. Max smoked Ricciardo. So there is 2 guys already who are better than Vettel.

Kvyat smoked Ricciardo in 2015, Rosberg smoked Hamilton in 2016, Button smoked Hamilton in 2011 and just like them, Ayrton Senna and other drivers have been smoked in the past. :rotfl

[mwk360]

Kvyat smoked Ricciardo in 2015, Rosberg smoked Hamilton in 2016, Button smoked Hamilton in 2011 and just like them, Ayrton Senna and other drivers have been smoked in the past. :rotfl

maybe ferrari needs Kvyat & Button for ferrari in 2019 lol

[Bonecrasher]

Kvyat smoked Ricciardo in 2015, Rosberg smoked Hamilton in 2016, Button smoked Hamilton in 2011 and just like them, Ayrton Senna and other drivers have been smoked in the past. :rotfl

I was referring to wheel to wheel racing. Of those you’ve mentioned only kvyat is as bad as Vettel in that regard.

[Ferrarichamp]

maybe ferrari needs Kvyat & Button for ferrari in 2019 lol

nah, Button is way too young :-D

[Michal2_F1]

1. Fernando Alonso
2. Lewis Hamilton
3. Sebastian Vettel
4. Max Verstappen
5. Daniel Ricciardo
6. Valtteri Bottas
7. Esteban Ocon
8. Nico Hulkenberg
9. Charles Leclerc
10. Kimi Raikkonen
11. Sergio Perez
12. Pierre Gasly
13. Carlos Sainz
14. Kevin Magnussen
15. Romain Grosjean
16. Stoffel Vandoorne
17. Marcus Ericsson
18. Brendon Hartley
19. Sergey Sirotkin
20. Lance Stroll

[KimiBot]

1. Verstappen
2. Hamilton
3. Alonso
4. Vettel
5. Räikkönen
6. Ricciardo, Hulkenberg

[FerrariFan]

Hamilton
Verstappen
Alonso
Riccardo
Vettel

[Vettel165]

NOW (V6)

Hamilton
Alonso
Vettel
Verstappen

Back in the days 2008-2013 (V8,V10)

Vettel, Alonso
Hamilton
Button
Kimi
Kubica

[IulianFerrari]

NOW (V6)

Hamilton
Alonso
Vettel
Verstappen

Back in the days 2008-2013 (V8,V10)

Vettel, Alonso
Hamilton
Button
Kimi
Kubica

Back in the good old days it was:
1) Alonso - Kimi - Hamilton
2) everybody else
Vettel wasn't in the picture.
If you must take that time span, Kimi took a sabbatical, Hamilton was on par with Button and the championship was mostly between Vettel and Alonso(except for Brawn)

[Infi24r]

I don't get those rating Vettel above Hamilton, that has shown to be categorically wrong these past two seasons.

[Infi24r]

Hamilton
Verstappen
Alonso
Riccardo
Vettel

This, but Alonso is ahead of Verstappen as he has far far fewer incidents.

[chinmay]

I don't get those rating Vettel above Hamilton, that has shown to be categorically wrong these past two seasons.

Leading championship for most of the season last year despite having a much inferior car proves that Vettel is way above Hamilton.

[Brembo]

This, but Alonso is ahead of Verstappen as he has far far fewer incidents.

Max is now only 20 yrs. old and his ride is not so hot to say the least. He's right up there like it or not with the best drivers with not one of the best cars. Alonso is the best driver with Max catching up. Leclerc is also I believe 20 yrs. old and come next yr. he will be driving one of; if not the best cars. I wish him well, just imagine Max blessed with a Ferrari car !! When he reaches 37 yrs. old he probably would be the main record breaker in F1

[Bonecrasher]

Leading championship for most of the season last year despite having a much inferior car proves that Vettel is way above Hamilton.

Ferrari had the marginally best car last year and Vettel + Team failed to maximise. They are following the same pattern this year. Vettel should be 60+ points ahead but he has been bottling it badly a few times. I mean Hamilton, with 3 mechanical issues compared to Zero for Vettel is leading by 40 points. I mean how incompetent can you get?

[mwk360]

Leading championship for most of the season last year despite having a much inferior car proves that Vettel is way above Hamilton.

true

[Brembo]

Leading championship for most of the season last year despite having a much inferior car proves that Vettel is way above Hamilton.

Way above for sure! Just look at this year so far, Lewis is no where to be found, 60 miserable points ahead is nothing.

[darkchild]

1. Max

Believe me, Hamilton would have his hands full of boy. He is outqualifying Ric by bigger margin then Lewis is outqualifying Bottas. Insane.

[WRX202]

1. Max

Believe me, Hamilton would have his hands full of boy. He is outqualifying Ric by bigger margin then Lewis is outqualifying Bottas. Insane.

well if you search a bit the news you'll find out that Daniel is being left out from team meetings, RB are not using the recommended engine modes by Renault for extra power on Daniel's car and so on. He is basically a stranger in his own team. You cannot expect them to let him out pace their star driver now right? Max is behaving like a spoiled brat, even showing the fingers at journalists yesterday during the post race interviews and yet all is ok coz he knows RB is all about backing him up.

[mwk360]

well if you search a bit the news you'll find out that Daniel is being left out from team meetings, RB are not using the recommended engine modes by Renault for extra power on Daniel's car and so on. He is basically a stranger in his own team. You cannot expect them to let him out pace their star driver now right? Max is behaving like a spoiled brat, even showing the fingers at journalists yesterday during the post race interviews and yet all is ok coz he knows RB is all about backing him up.

didnt the samething happen when vettel left RB, dont think their talent just suddenly goes away

[evo_spook]

didnt the samething happen when vettel left RB, dont think their talent just suddenly goes away

Maybe Daniel was never as good as everyone thought he was, maybe it was down to Vettel getting less attention or just passing time till he left.

The truth is probably somewhere inbetween.

[KimiBot]

Maybe Daniel was never as good as everyone thought he was, maybe it was down to Vettel getting less attention or just passing time till he left.

The truth is probably somewhere inbetween.

Seb had a "bad car->get out" in his contract. And that happened, so he could move to Ferrari.

[DelMar]

Ferrari had the marginally best car last year and Vettel + Team failed to maximise. They are following the same pattern this year. Vettel should be 60+ points ahead but he has been bottling it badly a few times. I mean Hamilton, with 3 mechanical issues compared to Zero for Vettel is leading by 40 points. I mean how incompetent can you get?
Nice try....

Ferrari did not have the marginally best car last year not even close. At specific circuits where short wheel base helped, Ferrari was faster. Monaco, Hungary, Singapore. But at most circuits it was advantage Merc and with bigger time gaps. Even at Monaco, Bottas was 0.045 sec away from Kimi at pole.

[evo_spook]

Nice try....

Ferrari did not have the marginally best car last year not even close. At specific circuits where short wheel base helped, Ferrari was faster. Monaco, Hungary, Singapore. But at most circuits it was advantage Merc and with bigger time gaps. Even at Monaco, Bottas was 0.045 sec away from Kimi at pole.

I think the Merc was the better car but they had issues with setup and understanding the tyres, which probably had to do with their suspension getting banned at last minute.

[Vittorio]

I often think that these driver rating lists too often mostly mirror the actual points standings, i.e. the drivers with more points are further up the list and those with few or no points are usually in the middle or at the bottom of the list.

I think the way to rate drivers is to ask oneself: 1. How well has the driver done with their own machinery? 2. How do they compare with their teammate in the same machinery? 3. To what extent have they been unlucky with their machinery, i.e. technical faults, engine blow-outs or involved in accidents not their fault?

It goes without saying that there are a million nuances that may dictate the races and fortunes of any driver - bad pit calls, strategies gone wrong, being ill or not physically at their peak for whatever reason, etc., etc. We as fans can never know all the nuances anyway, so we can only go on what is evident and what we do know for sure.

And I don't factor in so-called 'politics' into the equation, e.g. so-and-so is given preferential treatment, the other guy is not treated the same, etc. None of us know for sure and it's all speculation.

It's based on my criteria that both our drivers feature quite weakly on my list - because, to be brutally honest, neither of them have really been up to the quality of the machinery they've had this year. Sorry, but they have not. Imagine Michael Schumacher in this car...

My list of driver ratings thus far in 2018:

1. Leclerc
2. Alonso
3. Gasly
4. Ocon
5. Perez
6. Magnussen
7. Hamilton
8. Hulkenburg
9. Verstappen
10. Ricciardo
11. Vettel*
12. Raikkonen*
13. Sainz
14. Ericsson
15. Grosjean
16. Sirotkin
17. Vandoorne
18. Bottas**
19. Stroll
20. Hartley

* In my mind's eye I thought I was going to rate both our drivers even lower (i was thinking around 13th-14th initially) but all the drivers behind them on this list have had even more erratic or poor performance this year, even relative to their machinery.
** I cannot rate any driver highly who allows himself to so blatantly play second fiddle to another driver, especially with such excellent machinery at his hands - regardless of team orders and contracts. I think he was better last year anyway.

[jgonzalesm6]

It's hard to rate #2 drivers from the top teams because they run on different strats (tire & opponent plus playing "rear gunner").

The rest of the other teams pretty much race each other.

1. Alonso (mainly for driving a "pig" of a car and for the mental capacity to bring it home when he can however he can)
2. Vettel (he is carrying the weight of the team on his back for 2018....before, it was the car having issues).
3. Hamilton (yes, everything has to be working right and he has the team to make it so; he's tactful during a race but lacks the mental capacity when things go wrong)
4. Kimi and Bottas are tied (Kimi has the car now and so does Bottas and both play their roles to....a.....tea).
5. Ricciardo
6. Max
7. Perez and Ocon
8. Hulkenberg
9. K-Mag
10. LeClerc

[Brembo]

3. Hamilton lacks mental capacity when things go wrong! 33 yrs. old, 79 POLES , 69 wins , est. worth $240 million!! I can't wait to see when things start going wrong!! It's the car, no wait it's pure luck, no it's the tires! :rotfl we fans at Ferrari have Seb, lets hope for the best , there's still hope.

[wisepie]

3. Hamilton lacks mental capacity when things go wrong! 33 yrs. old, 79 POLES , 69 wins , est. worth $240 million!! I can't wait to see when things start going wrong!! It's the car, no wait it's pure luck, no it's the tires! :rotfl we fans at Ferrari have Seb, lets hope for the best , there's still hope.

HAM hasn't had many occasions over the past 4 seasons where his mental capacity has been tested, if we're honest, except maybe when up against ROS in the same car. Given the challenges that Ferrari and Seb have had to endure trying to catch up, it's not surprising that Seb is suffering from frustration and pressure to deliver. It's no excuse for a top-line driver, of course, but being a Ferrari driver with those huge expectations was never going to be easy and I'm pretty sure Hamilton would suffer under those conditions too.:Hmm

[Rishu]

HAM hasn't had many occasions over the past 4 seasons where his mental capacity has been tested, if we're honest, except maybe when up against ROS in the same car. Given the challenges that Ferrari and Seb have had to endure trying to catch up, it's not surprising that Seb is suffering from frustration and pressure to deliver. It's no excuse for a top-line driver, of course, but being a Ferrari driver with those huge expectations was never going to be easy and I'm pretty sure Hamilton would suffer under those conditions too.:Hmm

What about this year? I'm sure a guy who wasn't mentally tough would not have been leading by 40 points against arguably best car on the grid. He is one of the stupidest person available on Earth but Lewis the driver is delivering just great

[Brembo]

HAM hasn't had many occasions over the past 4 seasons where his mental capacity has been tested, if we're honest, except maybe when up against ROS in the same car. Given the challenges that Ferrari and Seb have had to endure trying to catch up, it's not surprising that Seb is suffering from frustration and pressure to deliver. It's no excuse for a top-line driver, of course, but being a Ferrari driver with those huge expectations was never going to be easy and I'm pretty sure Hamilton would suffer under those conditions too.:Hmm

Wisepie, I think you just described the German when with Red Bull; equal at the time as Lewis now with Merc. His mental capacity, mid field know how was not tested. He had the car. He has the "Ferrari car" , now 2018. There's still hope.

[WRX202]

Wisepie, I think you just described the German when with Red Bull; equal at the time as Lewis now with Merc. His mental capacity, mid field know how was not tested. He had the car. He has the "Ferrari car" , now 2018. There's still hope.

I recall Vettel being able to make up a big points deficit to Alonso when he was still driving for RedBull. So yes, Vettel can still make it but he has to feel supported all out by his team, same as Lewis is right now with a no.2 driver (Bottas) that won't even speak if not asked to. One mistake and Vettel will break and give up for good. The tyre choice for Baku is already looking like a mistake, too many Hypers yet again. Let's see and fingers crossed.

[wisepie]

Wisepie, I think you just described the German when with Red Bull; equal at the time as Lewis now with Merc. His mental capacity, mid field know how was not tested. He had the car. He has the "Ferrari car" , now 2018. There's still hope.

You have a point, Brembo, but how many times this year has Seb had to fight back through the field as a result of earlier mistakes/crashes, he is able to do that in the same way as HAM and only once did he actually throw away a possible win in Germany, which I'm still not convinced would have happened as both HAM and BOT were catching him fast. The other 'mistakes' Seb has made have been expensive but we'd still have been unhappy if he hadn't tried. Yes, there's still hope, but the wind has gone out of our sails for the moment.:-E

[wisepie]

I'm also sure that HAM is mentally tough, any F1 driver has to be, but the VET-HAM rivalry has of course taken centre-stage and HAM always seems to get away with any damage or retirements through contact, whoever was at fault. VET has made some dubious moves, agreed, but it seems he feels the same pressure as any of us Tifosi, and we're only watching, wishing and hoping!;-)

[wisepie]

What about this year? I'm sure a guy who wasn't mentally tough would not have been leading by 40 points against arguably best car on the grid. He is one of the stupidest person available on Earth but Lewis the driver is delivering just great

See above reply, Rishu.

[Bonecrasher]

I have no doubt Rosberg would be leading this championship if he were in the superior Ferrari.He competed in the same equipment with Lewis Hamilton and nabbed himself a title. That’s greater than Vettel’s 4 against ageing Webber. At this moment I rank Rosberg and Button higher than Vettel. Button beat Hamilton and Alonso over a season in the same car. That’s greater than anything Vettel has ever done.

[Greig]

I have no doubt Rosberg would be leading this championship if he were in the superior Ferrari.He competed in the same equipment with Lewis Hamilton and nabbed himself a title. That’s greater than Vettel’s 4 against ageing Webber. At this moment I rank Rosberg and Button higher than Vettel. Button beat Hamilton and Alonso over a season in the same car. That’s greater than anything Vettel has ever done.

Puzzles me why a Lewis fan needs to come here to hate on Seb, really do something better with your time.

[Giallo 550]

I have no doubt Rosberg would be leading this championship if he were in the superior Ferrari.He competed in the same equipment with Lewis Hamilton and nabbed himself a title. That’s greater than Vettel’s 4 against ageing Webber. At this moment I rank Rosberg and Button higher than Vettel. Button beat Hamilton and Alonso over a season in the same car. That’s greater than anything Vettel has ever done.

Rosberg was only racing Hamilton, who had his share of gremlins that year. Vettel had to beat Alonso, Hamilton, and Webber in a less dominant car than the Mercedes.

[Bonecrasher]

Puzzles me why a Lewis fan needs to come here to hate on Seb, really do something better with your time.

Yo my dude, this is a topic not just on Ferrari drivers what’s your gripe? Besides I support Kimi but I have to conclude he is way past. That leaves me with ability to scrutinise other drivers with impartiality and if that means pointing out Vettel's glaring shortcomings so be it.

[jgonzalesm6]

Yo my dude, this is a topic not just on Ferrari drivers what’s your gripe? Besides I support Kimi but I have to conclude he is way past. That leaves me with ability to scrutinise other drivers with impartiality and if that means pointing out Vettel's glaring shortcomings so be it.

+1

[Greig]

Yo my dude, this is a topic not just on Ferrari drivers what’s your gripe? Besides I support Kimi but I have to conclude he is way past. That leaves me with ability to scrutinise other drivers with impartiality and if that means pointing out Vettel's glaring shortcomings so be it.

Your a Lewis fan, it's ok to admit it.....don't hide behind another driver. Ranting at Vettel in nearly every post you make is not pointing out shortcomings, saying Rosberg would be winning the title in this Ferrari is rather clutching at straws in another attempt to discredit Vettel.

[Greig]

Rosberg was only racing Hamilton, who had his share of gremlins that year. Vettel had to beat Alonso, Hamilton, and Webber in a less dominant car than the Mercedes.

+1

[Noquarter]

Hamilton 10, Verstappen 8. VETTEL 6 Kimi, Bottas and Daniel 4

[DIEK]

1. Alonso
.
.
.
.
2.Ricciardo
3.Hamilton
4.Verstappen
5.Vettel
6.Hulkenberg
7.Gasley/Leclerc
8.Sainz
9.Ocon
10.Raikkonen
11.Bottas
12.Perez

[Giallo 550]

Tier 1 (Champions)
Alonso

Hamilton
Vettel

Raikkonen

Tier 2 (Likely Future Champions)
Leclerc
Verstappen

Gasly
Ocon

Tier 3 (Midfielders)
Ricciardo
Bottas

Hulkenberg
Perez

Sainz
Vandoorne



Grosjean


Tier 4 (Bottom Feeders)
Hartley
Ericsson
Sirotkin
Stroll

For the record, I don't think the bottom five belong in F1. There's a LOT of talent currently knocking on the door.