Vettel is not and never was an elite driver

[FerrariFan]

Guys been lurking for a while.

Been following Ferrari for many many years. Seen some genuinely great drivers like Michael Schumacher and Fernando Alonso.

Sebastian Vettel has always been a good front runner. In clean air able to control the race he is very good. Unfortunately he does not have elite level racecraft, if you look throughout his history at red bull he struggled when it was time to pass top level drivers, constantly made mistakes. Imagine alonso in. Red bull in 2012, no way would that WDC have been so close.

He came up against an elite level teammate in Daniel Riccardo and got blown away.

Hes now up against possibly the best driver in F1, with a car advantage, and he cant convert it, unforced errors galore.

Today Hamilton outbreaked him round the outside and rather than do what kimi did and just get him backlater, he stayed too tight around the corner and got clipped.

He d oesnt have what it takes to compete with the bezt in equal machinery over a season. Sorry, but thatsmy opinion.

Ferrari are making 2 huge mistakes

One is getting rid of kimi raikonnen to bring in an unproven rookie driver who has not been properly tested.

And the other is going all in with vettel.

We know from the red bull days what vettel is, why are we suprised when he comes here and does the same things.

I cant stand Hamilton, but he is clearly the better of the two

[impactX]

I thought I was watching Massa today when he spun.

[Noquarter]

Ferrari to win with Fettel must have at last 0.5s quicker car.

[ChrisFerrari]

Sadly I have to agree with the above mentioned things. He is an elite driver though, at least in my opinion, but these risks that he is taking continuously are deadly especially against Hamilton. He has the ability (and now the car) to beat him, but he should really learn from Rapperboy to be cautious and patient, to strike at the best possible time. This rivalry reminds me a bit of 1998 and 1999 (Schumi's 3rd and 4th year with us) before clinching that title in 2000. This year is gone, although mathematically we are in a perfectly salvageable situation, I dont see us winning it this year. And I am not expecting us to. Lewis has made Vettel his b*tch this year so far, letting Seb shoot himself in the foot every time.

[chinmay]

The guy in the superior McLaren Mercedes of 2012 lost title by 100 points to Vettel who was driving an inferior Red Bull. McLaren's McGrath summed up Hamilton's skill compared to Vettel in early 2012:


McGrath added that beating qualifying master Sebastian Vettel will be crucial if McLaren is to be successful in 2012, particularly as its analysis indicated that the raw pace of last year's MP4-26 was superior towards the end of the season despite Red Bull and Vettel's run of poles.

"He must be a brilliant driver, because by the end of last season we definitely had the best car and he was still whupping us," McGrath said. "We're trying to figure out exactly what he's doing that's so good. How does he pull out that fast qualifying lap every time? We think it's driver skill. There's no trickery on the cars, he just gets more out of it than we do."

[FerrariFan]

Make a list guys, Hamilton fannoobs are coming out in full force. The guy in the superior McLaren Mercedes of 2012 lost title by 100 points to Vettel who was driving an inferior Red Bull. McLaren's McGrath summed up Hamilton's skill compared to Vettel in early 2012:

Stupid arguement not based in any fact. I wont even go into thr fact you think vettel finished 100 points ahead of Hamilton due to driver skill and not mclaren unreliablity.

The second stupid bit is how you think im a Hamilton fanboy for supporting ferrari for 15 years and seeing first hand Fernando Alonso take races away from vettel in a far slower car with all the posters on this forum saying how much they hated vettel and how overrated heis.

I suoport the team.

Not drivers

[zike]

I thought I was watching Massa today when he spun.

Post injury Massa to be precise

[zike]

Stupid arguement not based in any fact. I wont even go into thr fact you think vettel finished 100 points ahead of Hamilton due to driver skill and not mclaren unreliablity.

The second stupid bit is how you think im a Hamilton fanboy for supporting ferrari for 15 years and seeing first hand Fernando Alonso take races away from vettel in a far slower car with all the posters on this forum saying how much they hated vettel and how overrated heis.

I suoport the team.

Not drivers

Exactly, what counts is what he does today in Ferrari, I could not care less what he did in RB

[chinmay]

Stupid arguement not based in any fact. I wont even go into thr fact you think vettel finished 100 points ahead of Hamilton due to driver skill and not mclaren unreliablity.

The second stupid bit is how you think im a Hamilton fanboy for supporting ferrari for 15 years and seeing first hand Fernando Alonso take races away from vettel in a far slower car with all the posters on this forum saying how much they hated vettel and how overrated heis.

I suoport the team.

Not drivers

Yeah that's an argument always used by Hamilton fanboys that he always loses due to unreliability like 2007, 2012 and 2016. As if Red Bull never had any, go and check, you will find out that both McLaren and Red Bull had almost similar amount of race ending failures.

[chinmay]

You are from UK, joined today after race, surely you would be here years ago if you were that strong Ferrari supporter. LOL, nice try Hamilton fanboy.

[FerrariFan]

Yeah that's an argument always used by Hamilton fanboys that he always loses due to unreliability like 2007, 2012 and 2016. As if Red Bull never had any, go and check, you will find out that both McLaren and Red Bull had almost similar amount of race ending failures.

Im not sure you even watched that 2012 season, you must have just looked at the points table. The fact you think that 100 points gap was down to driver skill on vettels part just shows you really dont have a clue.

[FerrariFan]

You are from UK, joined today after race, surely you would be here years ago if you were that strong Ferrari supporter. LOL, nice try Hamilton fanboy.
.

Attack the PERSON rather than the arguement....again showing you have no idea


I was supporting ferrari when ferrari fans all hated vettel and said he was the most overrated driver ever.

How times change.

Ive never rated him that highly. Even when he signed for us.

[DelMar]

Yeah that's an argument always used by Hamilton fanboys that he always loses due to unreliability like 2007, 2012 and 2016. As if Red Bull never had any, go and check, you will find out that both McLaren and Red Bull had almost similar amount of race ending failures.
I alraedy gave him the answer to the reliability . Both Vettel and Lewis had 2 DNFs from reliability issues that year.

Vettel retired from lead at European GP and P4 at Monza (alternator issues). Lewis retired from lead at Singapore and Abu Dhabi.

[chinmay]

.

Attack the PERSON rather than the arguement....again showing you have no idea


I was supporting ferrari when ferrari fans all hated vettel and said he was the most overrated driver ever.

How times change.

Ive never rated him that highly. Even when he signed for us.

Seb doesn't give a damn about your rating, he knows he is the best driver on the grid, paddock knows he is the best which is why all of them want him, people know that he is the best. Your mere opinion means nothing, go get F1 TV Access, watch the 2012 season and then we'll talk.

[FerrariSteve]

I have to admit that Seb is making far FAR too many mistakes, just how many points has he thrown away now?
The car is good, we know that but Seb is handing the title to Ham on a silver platter right now.

[darkchild]

Our driver pairing is by far worst of top 3 teams.

[FerrariFan]

I alraedy gave him the answer to the reliability BS. Both Vettel and Lewis had 2 DNFs from reliability issues that year.

Vettel retired from lead at European GP and P4 at Monza (alternator issues). Lewis retired from lead at Singapore and Abu Dhabi.

Did you watch that season. It was not just dnfs. There were a multitude of operational errors like slow pits stops, and other things thqt cost him big points.

Heres a small example

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/9293321/Monaco-Grand-Prix-2012-Lewis-Hamilton-left-to-rue-McLaren-errors-as-Mark-Webber-wins-from-pole.html

That's why you need to watch the races, not count points and dnfs and then take arguements of context to suppport a nonsense arguement. Lol

[ManFromMilan]

Im not sure you even watched that 2012 season, you must have just looked at the points table. The fact you think that 100 points gap was down to driver skill on vettels part just shows you really dont have a clue.



True, it was because of the lack of skill from LH that he was 100points down.

I remember 2012 well. It was not only the RBR rocketship that won those championships, but the Grosjean rocketship at Spa as well.:-s

[Hornet]

Vettel isn't perfect, and yes he does seem to make mistake sometimes when drawn into a first lap fight.
But currently he is our best shot at the WDC, and there is a reason for that.

Lewis is our competitor and probably will always be, so it doesn't matter if he is better than Vettel or not. We just have to beat him, and he can be beaten, as we've seen many times now.

[DelMar]

Did you watch that season. It was not just dnfs. There were a multitude of operational errors like slow pits stops, and other things thqt cost him big points.

Heres a small example

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/9293321/Monaco-Grand-Prix-2012-Lewis-Hamilton-left-to-rue-McLaren-errors-as-Mark-Webber-wins-from-pole.html

That's why you need to watch the races, not count points and dnfs and then take arguements of context to suppport a nonsense arguement. Lol

You mentioned reliability argument and I gave the answer for it.

Yes I watched the season. Lewis had 3 more DNFs from accidents and one more at Germany where they strategically retired the car 10 laps to go when he was out of points.

[FerrariFan]

Vettel isn't perfect, and yes he does seem to make mistake sometimes when drawn into a first lap fight.
But currently he is our best shot at the WDC, and there is a reason for that.

Lewis is our competitor and probably will always be, so it doesn't matter if he is better than Vettel or not. We just have to beat him, and he can be beaten, as we've seen many times now.

We will need a 0.5 second per lap advantage to do it.

If the cars care close, hes not good enough.

Hes good at leading races, but hes not going outhustle max, daniel, lewis, Fernando in my opinion.

[IulianFerrari]

It was just a hotheaded decision. His ego didn't let Hamilton pass him at Monza. There were plenty of posibilities for Seb to pass even if 3rd after the first lap, 40 laps Kimi has blocked Hamilton, but he just got narrow minded so he will have to learn from this and move on. Seb is signed for next season, so to begin talking about replacements is useless and even unnecesary. He is as good as any of the others on the grid,in my opinion.

[Arcana]

Nothing wrong with Vettel. Just bad luck at the start, Hamilton got the better of him, they touched and one of them spun, unfortunately Vettel.

Or what do you wanted to happen ? Vettel crash into Hamilton ? Sorry but the days when a Ferrari driver crashes into Hamilton like a sore loser are over(yes I'm referring to Massa that was "let's destroy Hamilton's race" crap back in 2011. To this day I can't believe FIA tolerated that behaviour for so long).

Hamilton was just better, maybe he was faster, maybe Mercedes was above Ferrari due to lower temperatures, their strategy was better, Kimi was not fast enough to pull a gap or to overtake Bottas, Vettel should have been faster I qualifying and start from P1, I don't know exactly but it was a sum of several factors that led us to this result, not just 1 clear incident.

[mwk360]

Nothing wrong with Vettel. Just bad luck at the start, Hamilton got the better of him, they touched and one of them spun, unfortunately Vettel.

Or what do you wanted to happen ? Vettel crash into Hamilton ? Sorry but the days when a Ferrari driver crashes into Hamilton like a sore loser are over(yes I'm referring to Massa that was "let's destroy Hamilton's race" crap back in 2011. To this day I can't believe FIA tolerated that behaviour for so long).

Hamilton was just better, maybe he was faster, maybe Mercedes was above Ferrari due to lower temperatures, their strategy was better, Kimi was not fast enough to pull a gap or to overtake Bottas, Vettel should have been faster I qualifying and start from P1, I don't know exactly but it was a sum of several factors that led us to this result, not just 1 clear incident.

agreed

[ManFromMilan]

(yes I'm referring to Massa that was "let's destroy Hamilton's race" crap back in 2011. To this day I can't believe FIA tolerated that behaviour for so long).





The crashking Lewis was to blame in 2011 and not Massa or the FIA. Massa was not having his crap, that was all.

[tifosi1993]

I was patience after Singapore and Baku 2017 but not anymore. Enough is enough.

[BRP]

We Need Alonso
He A Fighter

[IulianFerrari]

We Need Alonso
He A Fighter

Yeah he fought 5 years with 0 championships.

[FerrariFan]

Yeah he fought 5 years with 0 championships.

Please, in this year and last years car he would score more points than vettel. Better driver.

[tifosi1993]

Yeah he fought 5 years with 0 championships.

Still more successful then Vettel in that regard. Unlike Vettel, he was in contention til the last race.

[IulianFerrari]

Still more successful then Vettel in that regard. Unlike Vettel, he was in contention til the last race.

Well the season, it isnt finished, is it? Pointless talk anyway, he is gone and the team don't want him back.

[Otakukim]

What on earth is the point of this thread? Rather than bashing our drivers?

[Rob]

Please, in this year and last years car he would score more points than vettel. Better driver.

well he not in the car, so these silly "alonso would be leading now" statements mean nothing. He gone get over it. We have Seb, a 4 yes 4 time WDC. So he cannt be that bad and we have Kimi, 1 time WDC.

[Rob]

no need to have thread dediicated to running out drivers down. When there is nothing wrong with them.