The chopping block. Mattia Binotto stay or go?

[SS454]

For years I've seen a trend on this site, when Ferrari isn't doing well and a driver or team member makes a mistake they go on the chopping block. For years the Tifosi have been very outspoken about wanting Vettel out the door since he was making too many mistakes.

Now after Ferrari appear to have been caught "cheating", the blame has gone to Binotto and the common cry around here is that he is to blame and get rid of him.

I personally don't see a replacement doing any better of a job, and perhaps not any worse. Until Ferrari as a whole changes their mindset, any Ferrari TP will still be overseeing the same group of engineers that aren't good enough to build a car capable of beating Mercedes.

For those that want Binotto gone, who can replace him and why would they do a better job?

[Cavallino]

I need a Machiavellian leader. Someone who will play the political game.

IMO Binotto can be AT MOST a technical director.

[nani_s23]

I need binotto to be there but not as TP. He did good as a TD. So better push him to the same place.

[Scuderia27]

I need binotto to be there but not as TP. He did good as a TD. So better push him to the same place.

Will he accept it?

[nani_s23]

Will he accept it?

Nope. He will resign. But it’s better option than termination

[jgonzalesm6]

i voted no.

Keep Binotto. Who else to put in his place???

Give him time.

If he gets fired, this will be the 3rd TP Ferrari has gone thru. Also, IF fired, he could go to Mercedes........another one to Mercedes?????

The oher 2 TP's before Binotto were "Marlboro" men.

Give him 3 years. He's turned personnel around in the F1 team.

[Scuderia27]

I still think he has some ace on his sleeve.

He was all happy after the settlement and saying ferrari must gain political advantage.

For his actions ( the not renewal of vettel and the accpetance of the token fro 2020/21 ) i would imagine that he is not fired yet because he got a good deal for 2022.

I still remember that ferrari will help with the investigation on new engines from the settlement. I would guess ferrari will influence the way power units will evolve for 2022 and onwards.


If not... no business in being TL

[alfa84]

No! We must give him 6 more races. Than we can evaluate how he would manage this situation. He could turn te be e real leader or accept the failure and step down.We cant afford to lose Mattia anyway.

[Redfive]

I'm tempted to say replace him but with who? I'm really not sure.

[paolo lalli]

Never throw away your old shoes untill you have new ones.

[subfire91]

why is binotto's fault ? why was arrivabene's fault? too many TP's came and left as failures. Were everyone incompetent ? i dont think so!!

Its not a TP's fault if the engine department cant produce a descent engine. It is also not a TP's fault if aerodynamicists cannot produce a descent chassis.

A TP most of the time is not an engineer and certainly not an aerodynamicist. It is there to manage a team and has to work with what he is given.

The problem at ferrari is that they dont employ the best engineers and aero guys anymore. They stop innovating and transformed from a leader to a decent follower.

i believe we should stop blaming binotto for this. He didnt build neither the engine nor the chassis.

[330 p4]

Keep him at all costs. Need to build a team not erode it. He took the role a few weeks before 2019, he is stuck with senior decisions made by previous boss. Ferrari will learn a lot this year, hard lessons are the best.

[raylinds]

As soon as someone names a better replacement with a compelling argument why they are better, I will say yes. Until then...

[paneristi]

Hear! Hear!

I need a Machiavellian leader. Someone who will play the political game.

IMO Binotto can be AT MOST a technical director.

[paneristi]

If dept A is not doing well, and dept B keeps making mistakes, then it’s the one not capable of keeping the team intact that needs to go. That one must oversee, escalate, lobbying etc. S/he must work together with the bosses to ensure winning.
why is binotto's fault ? why was arrivabene's fault? too many TP's came and left as failures. Were everyone incompetent ? i dont think so!!

Its not a TP's fault if the engine department cant produce a descent engine. It is also not a TP's fault if aerodynamicists cannot produce a descent chassis.

A TP most of the time is not an engineer and certainly not an aerodynamicist. It is there to manage a team and has to work with what he is given.

The problem at ferrari is that they dont employ the best engineers and aero guys anymore. They stop innovating and transformed from a leader to a decent follower.

i believe we should stop blaming binotto for this. He didnt build neither the engine nor the chassis.

[Brembo]

It's only the Ferrari tradition of team orders that's causing Binotto to not get it right race time. He's got a " Gun" to his head as to try to keep the $ 50 million dollar German as #1 regardless of his mistakes and trying to get up on Charles at any cost. Charles fights back and look at the results so far. Any car updates PU; chassis, tires; mean nothing when the cars DNF. Last race had nothing to do with the car being ready to fight for points. The drivers are wrecking the races . Binotto can't get Seb to realize the 4 WDC's were with the enemy . not Ferrari. Seb has to realize but won't, that Charles is a deserving #1 driver and let him pass !! I hope Saintz is watching.

[nani_s23]

It's only the Ferrari tradition of team orders that's causing Binotto to not get it right race time. He's got a " Gun" to his head as to try to keep the $ 50 million dollar German as #1 regardless of his mistakes and trying to get up on Charles at any cost. Charles fights back and look at the results so far. Any car updates PU; chassis, tires; mean nothing when the cars DNF. Last race had nothing to do with the car being ready to fight for points. The drivers are wrecking the races . Binotto can't get Seb to realize the 4 WDC's were with the enemy . not Ferrari. Seb has to realize but won't, that Charles is a deserving #1 driver and let him pass !! I hope Saintz is watching.

:rotfl let him pass where over the head ?

[Rishu]

Not sure but turning point was appointing Domenicali as TP, position left vacant by Jean Todt’s departure which left Ross Brawn disgruntled and he decided to leave and join Honda. I could be completely wrong here but Ross leaving was a set back

[paolo lalli]

Correct when he left the Ferrari walls started to crumble.Now they have finally collapsed.This is the result when Ferrari keep using jobs for the boys mentality.

[patrese86]

I voted no. We can't keep changing things when there is a bump in the road. What we need is stability, the problems don't solely rest with one individual, this is a team effort.

As other's have said, who do you even replace him with?

[speedmaster]

The poll question 'Replace Binotto?' is vague/incomplete, if you rather ask me 'Replace Binotto with XXX?' then may be I can give my view.

[KimiBot]

I do not understand why did they kick out Arrivabene, his team was making progress every year, and was all ready very close to get WDC and WCC and then comes Binotto, and after that, it is a disaster.
I do understand that they change people when things are getting worse, but I do not understand why they change people, when every thing is going great and better.

Well, we have Binotto now, and worst results what I can remember. No progress, just the opposite. And he says after every race, "we have to analyze, we do not understand our car".
Just my humble opinion.

[Redfive]

I did like Arrivabene a lot, Binotto seems out of his depth tbh, some of his interviews leave me bewildered.

[vcs316]

Until we get a proven leader from outside who can manage the internal politics and external pressure at Ferrari, I say we keep Binotto.

Everyone promoted from within have failed - Domenicali, Mattiacci, Arrivabene & now Binotto. This also makes me question the succession planning at Ferrari - are they not grooming better talent or the TP is decided by politics and/or number of years in the company.

[Forzi]

Did make a post on AS, thought i should repost it here:

So far the resume of Binotto:


Under his rule as TD/the person the technical department reports to Ferrari has been in the biggest humiliating technical scandal since 2007 McLaren spy gate.
With the PU freeze happening, this likely sets the team on a backfoot until the new PU regs.
With his arrogance in wanting to lead the team, he blackmailed it (saying he’d leave to Mercedes if he’s not getting what he wants) and got Arrivabene sacked, which basically diminished the best team leadership/technical department setup we had since Todt-Brawn. All those years of sacking and heads rolling to get to that point has gone to waste.
His handling of drivers, team orders and contracts has been horrible to say the least.


Sadly enough, i genuinely don't know who could replace him now.

[Stingray]

Did make a post on AS, thought i should repost it here:

So far the resume of Binotto:


Under his rule as TD/the person the technical department reports to Ferrari has been in the biggest humiliating technical scandal since 2007 McLaren spy gate.
With the PU freeze happening, this likely sets the team on a backfoot until the new PU regs.
With his arrogance in wanting to lead the team, he blackmailed it (saying he’d leave to Mercedes if he’s not getting what he wants) and got Arrivabene sacked, which basically diminished the best team leadership/technical department setup we had since Todt-Brawn. All those years of sacking and heads rolling to get to that point has gone to waste.
His handling of drivers, team orders and contracts has been horrible to say the least.


Sadly enough, i genuinely don't know who could replace him now.

Agree 100%. He may be a technical expert, but there is NO leadership abilities here ...... only political influence and manipulation at the cost of Ferrari.

[wisepie]

I have always felt that Binotto can't and shouldn't be expected to be a team manager and technical director as well as overseeing all the circuit-based operations of the team and drivers. It seems to me that he needs back-up from someone so that he can concentrate of the technical side, although judging by the current car, even that is proving to be problematic for him. But I voted not to replace him at the moment, and if the current engine is not upgraded due to the freeze, it will make little impact on this season or 2021, so we're doomed to be mid-field at best.:-E

[Forzi]

Well, the engine is fixable to an extent, BUT it can only be done during the next preseason, as come Melbourne, the team will be stuck mostly with the same PU they got for the whole 2021. They'll have to run it, debug it on track during the preseason testing. Kind of a tall order to expect them to have a PU that's in a league of a Mercedes AND reliable. They wont really be able to go for any risks by pushing the limits.

[BRP]

Bring Flavio
Controversial or not he can make things happen

[gvera]

There are already rumours of Elkann planning to replace Mattia with Antonello Coletta, GT and Corse Clienti racing Director

[patrese86]

Let's remember, it wasn't Binotto that signed off an an engine freeze either. This goes higher up than just the Mattia. What will a new principal achieve now? It just continues to undermine the entire management hierarchy. A new TP won't suddenly sort out the correlation issues or magic up a new engine

[aroutis]

In my humble opinion,it's a matter of changing the structure of hierarchy in the team; it has to be more vertical , name heads who will in turn delegate, stop concentrating power to so few people, starting with the current TP.
Sure ok, Binotto could be replaced with the TP of whoever's choice and he could or could not return to his previous post (?),maybe, the thing tho is that unless we get to a more horizontal management system where people delegate fast so when a problem arises,teams can be built really fast and problems can be resolve as fast,we'll never move forward.
Also, the problem with dealing with errors that comes from pressure , will only be dealt with via strong leadership ; ie. someone that will act as a shield for the team.

In this respect,the answer to this question is that sure,replace Binotto if you have to but don't sack him, and change the team structure into the 21st century.

[Redfive]

if only Michael Schumacher was okay, imagine him as team boss.. would be epic!

[330 p4]

if only Michael Schumacher was okay, imagine him as team boss.. would be epic!

If we had to change I would always want Ross Brawn, cannot believe they never went for him. If had to change has to be Brawn, imagine when Merc kicked him out he could of brought over so much insider knowledge normally when Ferrari get rid of senior figures they go to Merc and spill their guts. On that note getting Cowell as an engine consultant to explain all the dirty tricks Merc use would be great if just to protest them.

[patrese86]

Ross Brawn has no intention of returning to Ferrari. In fact I think he's part of the reason why Mercedes avoid any kinds of investigations and we get scrutinised more heavily. He's quite pally with Toto, after all he made a mint when he sold Brawn to them. It's all underhanded

[458 Italia]

If we had to change I would always want Ross Brawn, cannot believe they never went for him. If had to change has to be Brawn, imagine when Merc kicked him out he could of brought over so much insider knowledge normally when Ferrari get rid of senior figures they go to Merc and spill their guts. On that note getting Cowell as an engine consultant to explain all the dirty tricks Merc use would be great if just to protest them.

I don't think that could or would ever happen after he and Michael was pushed out of the team.

[330 p4]

I don't think that could or would ever happen after he and Michael was pushed out of the team.

Like Alonso would never go back to McLaren after 2007? If they offered it to him he might take it, they have never asked the question, never a rumour or story U can remember. Moot point though to me as I want Binotto to be given time. As for people saying Ferrari never cast their net wide for recruitment they tried to get Newey on numerous occasions for reported crazy wages but were never successful. I also used to think Flavio he was a bull dog in the paddock. With the current thinking people are throwing at Ferrari that they need diversity and only employ Italians, Hamilton having a pop at who Ferrari employ they could cover all bases and appoint Mario Balotelli as TP?

[jgonzalesm6]

#Montezemolo e la #Ferrari: “Organizzazione da cambiare. Binotto troppo solo”


Excerpts from the article

Montezemolo: "When they replaced me they told me that it didn't matter to have positive balance sheets, they said you had to win on the track... At least in my day when Ferrari didn't win we stayed in the fight until the last race!"


"Today's problem arises first and foremost from organisation. Ferrari has it totally different from the other teams. Mattia Binotto is too lonely. There are no other teams organised like that."

"Binotto, who is a young novice as technical director, is responsible for sports management, driver management, technical area and must also take care of politics."

"In my days I had built a team with the best of the best. There were Todt, Brawn, Byrne, Martinelli, Domenicali... Formula 1 is like great international football, you don't look at passports to win, you have to look for the best."

"In Ferrari in recent times the talents have left. First Allison, then Sassi and they all ended up at Mercedes!"

"I'm very worried [about Ferrari] because it won't be easy to get out of this situation because we should already be working on 2022 when everything changes."

"I see it difficult to develop the car and think about the future, also because a new nose and a wing are not enough to change the competitiveness of this car. I think it is necessary to take the situation by the horns, make bold choices and make them quickly!"

"The drivers are not at fault. But I would never have cut Vettel so far in advance. Too much pressure has been put on Leclerc and it is difficult to involve Vettel now as he will leave the team."

"I was sorry that Ferrari vetoed my Formula 1 presidency. Ecclestone had called me and I would have accepted with pleasure. My father used to say to me: 'Whoever is jealous of the past hasn't understood anything.'"


https://topspeedblog.it/montezemolo-e-la-ferrari-organizzazione-da-cambiare-binotto-troppo-solo/

[nani_s23]

#Montezemolo e la #Ferrari: “Organizzazione da cambiare. Binotto troppo solo”


Excerpts from the article

Montezemolo: "When they replaced me they told me that it didn't matter to have positive balance sheets, they said you had to win on the track... At least in my day when Ferrari didn't win we stayed in the fight until the last race!"


"Today's problem arises first and foremost from organisation. Ferrari has it totally different from the other teams. Mattia Binotto is too lonely. There are no other teams organised like that."

"Binotto, who is a young novice as technical director, is responsible for sports management, driver management, technical area and must also take care of politics."

"In my days I had built a team with the best of the best. There were Todt, Brawn, Byrne, Martinelli, Domenicali... Formula 1 is like great international football, you don't look at passports to win, you have to look for the best."

"In Ferrari in recent times the talents have left. First Allison, then Sassi and they all ended up at Mercedes!"

"I'm very worried [about Ferrari] because it won't be easy to get out of this situation because we should already be working on 2022 when everything changes."

"I see it difficult to develop the car and think about the future, also because a new nose and a wing are not enough to change the competitiveness of this car. I think it is necessary to take the situation by the horns, make bold choices and make them quickly!"

"The drivers are not at fault. But I would never have cut Vettel so far in advance. Too much pressure has been put on Leclerc and it is difficult to involve Vettel now as he will leave the team."

"I was sorry that Ferrari vetoed my Formula 1 presidency. Ecclestone had called me and I would have accepted with pleasure. My father used to say to me: 'Whoever is jealous of the past hasn't understood anything.'"


https://topspeedblog.it/montezemolo-e-la-ferrari-organizzazione-da-cambiare-binotto-troppo-solo/

I think he’s right.

[Greig]

At least in my day when Ferrari didn't win we stayed in the fight until the last race!"

LOL he must forget the early 90's.....and mid 90's.....

[SS454]

I think he’s right.

He is basically saying what may of us have said. Ferrari needs to stop looking for the best in Italy, and look for the best in the world.

[jgonzalesm6]

I think he’s right.


He is basically saying what may of us have said. Ferrari needs to stop looking for the best in Italy, and look for the best in the world.


Yep, but the best in the world:

1.) Don't want to move to Italy.

2.) The heirarchy up top needs to change FIRST due to all the politics and organizational quagmire in the F1 dept.


Ferrari F1 won't change though. Their ethos is borderline "insanity" when it comes to someone form the outside telling them how to RUN an F1 team...."Situation Normal." pffft.

The only way Ferrari wins currently is if Mercedes drops out of F1.......just like Porsche and Audi dropped out of the LMP1 class and Toyota Denso is now winning....of course since there's no competition.

[chinmay]

Mattia Binotto:


It’s not by sacking people that you make a car go faster.


I have confidence in the people who work in the Gestione Sportiva: we have started out on a long process that should lead to another winning cycle. It will take a while, but the whole company understands and supports this vision.

[killer]

He is basically saying what may of us have said. Ferrari needs to stop looking for the best in Italy, and look for the best in the world.

Weren't/Aren't people on here blaming him for the opposite?

[Brembo]

Seb was the best in the world at the time Ferrari laid $50 million on him. "Non Italian!" Then ; Charles a quasi Italian took over for virtually peanuts in pay.

[SS454]

Weren't/Aren't people on here blaming him for the opposite?

People on this forum were upset with Montezemolo hiring the best people in the world and won 5 straight championships? I didn't see that.

[WS6TransAm01]

If Mattia wants to stay employed and turn the car around, he needs to put down the Dashboard Confessional mix tape, take 250mg of Test-E, grow a pair and start acting like a man.

Ferrari needs a leader, not a soy-boi.

[JPZ]

If Mattia wants to stay employed and turn the car around, he needs to put down the Dashboard Confessional mix tape, take 250mg of Test-E, grow a pair and start acting like a man.

Ferrari needs a leader, not a soy-boi.

:lol

[Cavallino]

it's pretty easy to get a perscription for male hormone replacement therapy too.

[racingbradley]

Not sure but turning point was appointing Domenicali as TP, position left vacant by Jean Todt’s departure which left Ross Brawn disgruntled and he decided to leave and join Honda. I could be completely wrong here but Ross leaving was a set back

I so agree with you.:-) Ross would have been a great TP and would have managed the team like clockwork. Just look at Brawn GP 2009!!! a brand new team ok ex Honda but Ross made it a winner in their 1st year.....the stuff of fairytales.
Most teams employ multi-nationals. Maybe Ferrari need to employ a TP who has worked elsewhere and can bring in fresh ideas. :-??

[killer]

People on this forum were upset with Montezemolo hiring the best people in the world and won 5 straight championships? I didn't see that.

For the "Italianization". Pops up here and there.

[crbassassin]

Who ever caused the disgruntled employee to rat us out on the engine cheat needs to go.

[WS6TransAm01]

Who ever caused the disgruntled employee to rat us out on the engine cheat needs to go.

It's Italy for God's sake. Someone needs to wake up with a severed horse's head in their bed. :lol

Where is the Cosa Nostra when you need them?

[Silent Bob]

Yep, but the best in the world:

1.) Don't want to move to Italy.

2.) The heirarchy up top needs to change FIRST due to all the politics and organizational quagmire in the F1 dept.


Ferrari F1 won't change though. Their ethos is borderline "insanity" when it comes to someone form the outside telling them how to RUN an F1 team...."Situation Normal." pffft.

The only way Ferrari wins currently is if Mercedes drops out of F1.......just like Porsche and Audi dropped out of the LMP1 class and Toyota Denso is now winning....of course since there's no competition.


Right. And you know this because:

1. You are Ferrari's recruitment manager.

2. Have first hand knowledge of how Ferrari operates.

3. Personally witnessed an outsider trying to tell Elkann and Co. how to run the business and he told him to go get stuffed.



They're making changes. Doesn't sound like a company that's not listening. And maybe you could provide a list of all the great people that have refused to come to Ferrari because it's in Italy... oh and AN doesn't count.

[jgonzalesm6]

Right. And you know this because:

1. You are Ferrari's recruitment manager.

2. Have first hand knowledge of how Ferrari operates.

3. Personally witnessed an outsider trying to tell Elkann and Co. how to run the business and he told him to go get stuffed.



They're making changes. Doesn't sound like a company that's not listening. And maybe you could provide a list of all the great people that have refused to come to Ferrari because it's in Italy... oh and AN doesn't count.


1. No

2. No

3. No

Given Ferrari's vast F1 budget plus it's vast finanical resources, they seem to be running or like to run in 2nd place........now 5th in 2020.

But what do I know. Like I said, everything has been fine at Ferrari and will be fine in the future. Who cares about the balance sheet and ROI with WDC or WCC titles.

No wonder Stroll copied a Mercedes of years past instead of a Ferrari.

[Silent Bob]

1. No

2. No

3. No

Given Ferrari's vast F1 budget plus it's vast finanical resources, they seem to be running or like to run in 2nd place........now 5th in 2020.

But what do I know. Like I said, everything has been fine at Ferrari and will be fine in the future. Who cares about the balance sheet and ROI with WDC or WCC titles.

No wonder Stroll copied a Mercedes of years past instead of a Ferrari.

Of course this has nothing to do with Wolf's investment or the fact they use Merc engines.
Plus money isn't limitless and doesn't guarantee success.
They have been more successful than Red Bull in the last 3-4 years, other than this year and Red Bull have vast financial resources.

[JPZ]

Of course this has nothing to do with Wolf's investment or the fact they use Merc engines.
Plus money isn't limitless and doesn't guarantee success.
They have been more successful than Red Bull in the last 3-4 years, other than this year and Red Bull have vast financial resources.

Politically, Ferrari seems to be getting steamrolled...

Mercedes have basically created a clone buffer team, not as good, but intended to be good enough to hassle those who are close enough to the works team.

[jgonzalesm6]

They have been more successful than Red Bull in the last 3-4 years, other than this year and Red Bull have vast financial resources.

RedBulls only handicap is the engine in this turbo hybrid era. If it had a Mercedes engine, it would behind Mercedes or fighting with Mercedes in the WCC or WDC titles.

[Greig]

RedBulls only handicap is the engine in this turbo hybrid era. If it had a Mercedes engine, it would behind Mercedes or fighting with Mercedes in the WCC or WDC titles.

Could apply that to Ferrari also then.....

[jgonzalesm6]

Could apply that to Ferrari also then.....

Yes, IF Ferrari had a Mercedes engine, it too would be up there fighting with Mercedes.

Unfortunatley, Ferrari makes it own.....which is why it won't sell to RedBull.....niether will Mercedes.

[Greig]

Yes, IF Ferrari had a Mercedes engine, it too would be up there fighting with Mercedes.

Unfortunatley, Ferrari makes it own.....which is why it won't sell to RedBull.....niether will Mercedes.

So moving to England and getting all these amazing talents that work there would mean nothing....

[jgonzalesm6]

So moving to England and getting all these amazing talents that work there would mean nothing....

If that's what you think......

I think otherwise.

RedBull is an energy drink company...not a car manufacturer....so it is limited on the engine....until 2020.

Had RedBull not been based in England but rather in another country....then those "amazing" talents that they currently have would not be there.

[Greig]

If that's what you think......

I think otherwise.

RedBull is an energy drink company...not a car manufacturer....so it is limited on the engine....until 2020.

Had RedBull not been based in England but rather in another country....then those "amazing" talents that they currently have would not be there.

But you just admitted if Ferrari had a Merc engine we would challenge them, while being based in Italy, so why would moving to England change anything when we would still not have a Merc engine?

And you have no idea who would work for Red Bull or not if they were based outside of England so there is no point just making things up.

[jgonzalesm6]

But you just admitted if Ferrari had a Merc engine we would challenge them, while being based in Italy, so why would moving to England change anything when we would still not have a Merc engine?

And you have no idea who would work for Red Bull or not if they were based outside of England so there is no point just making things up.

If Ferrari F1 moved to England, a long time ago, Ferrari F1 would be in a better position than they currently are.

Not moving to Engalnd puts everyone at a disadvantage.

That's my opinion.

[Greig]

If Ferrari F1 moved to England, a long time ago, Ferrari F1 would be in a better position than they currently are.

Not moving to Engalnd puts everyone at a disadvantage.

That's my opinion.

Ferrari did move to England a long time ago (twice) and it did not work, that's a fact not just an opinion based on nothing. And please don't post that Barnard was not a good team leader as he was not, he was a designer.

We would still not have a Merc engine if we were in England for that last 50 years, and you already said with a Merc engine we would be challenging Merc so why is being in Italy holding us back?

End of the day Ferrari are Italian and will remain so, you should have realised that when you picked them to support. What made you a Ferrari fan to begin with?

[jgonzalesm6]

Ferrari did move to England a long time ago (twice) and it did not work, that's a fact not just an opinion based on nothing. And please don't post that Barnard was not a good team leader as he was not, he was a designer.

We would still not have a Merc engine if we were in England for that last 50 years, and you already said with a Merc engine we would be challenging Merc so why is being in Italy holding us back?

End of the day Ferrari are Italian and will remain so, you should have realised that when you picked them to support. What made you a Ferrari fan to begin with?


Really?

I'm not the only one here who criticizes Ferrari's efforts here on this Forum.

So IF you're going to question my involvement here on this forum, then I suggest you do the same to others on here INSTEAD of singling me out to fit your narrative.

[Greig]

Maybe so but not many blame them for being Italian and decide they would be much better as an English team, you do so just wondering why you supported Ferrari the Italian team to begin with?

[jgonzalesm6]

Maybe so but not many blame them for being Italian and decide they would be much better as an English team, you do so just wondering why you supported Ferrari the Italian team to begin with?


Your a psychiatrist now??

Let me base my opinions on this forum.....as others do as well....positive or negative.

If your going to jump on me, then I suggest you do the same to others...otherwise have a nice day.

[Greig]

Your a psychiatrist now??

Let me base my opinions on this forum.....as others do as well....positive or negative.

If your going to jump on me, then I suggest you do the same to others...otherwise have a nice day.

Your the one here saying move to England......so you don't have an answer? You can post opinions all day long but if you can't back them up with anything then are they really worth being classed as an opinion.

You also made this claim


Their ethos is borderline "insanity"

Yet you say I am the psychiatrist?

[aroutis]

Their being based to Italy has nothing to do with their problems. Their management does. Really it has to do with management. Good management attracts people and poor guess what it does.
Ferrari moving to England will solve them ziltz.

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

[JPZ]

Their being based to Italy has nothing to do with their problems. Their management does. Really it has to do with management. Good management attracts people and poor guess what it does.
Ferrari moving to England will solve them ziltz.

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

Agreed.

Thankfully they seem to be making efforts to address this.

[jgonzalesm6]

Their being based to Italy has nothing to do with their problems. Their management does. Really it has to do with management. Good management attracts people and poor guess what it does.
Ferrari moving to England will solve them ziltz.

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk


Agreed.

Thankfully they seem to be making efforts to address this.

Ferrari F1, not the whole Ferrari, need diverstiy IF it want's to return to it's glory days. Being an ALL Italian F1 team will not solve their problems internally BUT I guess since being all Italian is more important....let's try next year......and next year......and next year.....and next year......and so on.

Binotto has made changes and he is still making changes. Ferrari F1 still has strategy issues with tires as we have seen in the last race and Seb being the strategist for himself.

With the amount of money that Ferrari F1 has, one would think they have made progress.....but it is quite the opposite.

Honda has an office in Milton Keynes. After 6 years and 2 teams they have made progress with the engine....beating Renault and Ferrari. Yet they don't have an all Japanese mantra at Milton Keynes....Of course the head guy on the engine is Japanese.

Mercedes AMG bought a team in England instead of making it an all German F1 team in Germany.

The talent pool is greater in this circle of F1 teams based in England and with Ferrari's money, they can hire the best engineers, aerodynamiciss, strategists, and so on to be great again.

Otherwise it will just be next year and next year and next year. Just because Ferrari tried in the past does'nt mean it won't work again. People change from within. This era in F1 is an entirely different animal.

[Greig]

Ferrari is not an all Italian team, just like Red Bull and Merc are not all English teams...

[Silent Bob]

Ferrari F1, not the whole Ferrari, need diverstiy IF it want's to return to it's glory days. Being an ALL Italian F1 team will not solve their problems internally BUT I guess since being all Italian is more important....let's try next year......and next year......and next year.....and next year......and so on.

Binotto has made changes and he is still making changes. Ferrari F1 still has strategy issues with tires as we have seen in the last race and Seb being the strategist for himself.

With the amount of money that Ferrari F1 has, one would think they have made progress.....but it is quite the opposite.

Honda has an office in Milton Keynes. After 6 years and 2 teams they have made progress with the engine....beating Renault and Ferrari. Yet they don't have an all Japanese mantra at Milton Keynes....Of course the head guy on the engine is Japanese.

Mercedes AMG bought a team in England instead of making it an all German F1 team in Germany.

The talent pool is greater in this circle of F1 teams based in England and with Ferrari's money, they can hire the best engineers, aerodynamiciss, strategists, and so on to be great again.

Otherwise it will just be next year and next year and next year. Just because Ferrari tried in the past does'nt mean it won't work again. People change from within. This era in F1 is an entirely different animal.


You seem to think all great F1 engineers and personnel live in England. Why do Ferrari need English personnel to succeed? Would Spanish, Greek, Chinese, Japanese, German personnel not make good F1 people if they have the skills? Would a Chinese national rather live in England or Italy or would it matter? I'm sure Ferrari is open to hiring outside their nationality.
Honda has a facility in England because that is where their team has/had their headquarters.
Splitting Ferrari would not improve it. They would need a complete new wind tunnel, factory, logistics etc. Think we have enough correlation issues as it is.


What if Ferrari went to Indycar. Would they need a new factory in America?

[jgonzalesm6]

You seem to think all great F1 engineers and personnel live in England. Why do Ferrari need English personnel to succeed? Would Spanish, Greek, Chinese, Japanese, German personnel not make good F1 people if they have the skills? Would a Chinese national rather live in England or Italy or would it matter? I'm sure Ferrari is open to hiring outside their nationality.
Honda has a facility in England because that is where their team has/had their headquarters.
Splitting Ferrari would not improve it. They would need a complete new wind tunnel, factory, logistics etc. Think we have enough correlation issues as it is.


What if Ferrari went to Indycar. Would they need a new factory in America?

The best are in England. Ferrari needs the best and can hire them....even though they have and have left Ferrari.

HAAS has a facility in England even though they also have a facility in America. HAAS is'nt a top tier formula 1 team but they also "piece-meal" their car.

Mclaren is in IndyCar even though the car is "badged" Mclaren.

Ex-Formula 1 driver Mark Webber has stated that Ferrari should move to the U.K. IF it wanted to return to it's glory days of the past.

[Silent Bob]

The best are in England. Ferrari needs the best and can hire them....even though they have and have left Ferrari.

HAAS has a facility in England even though they also have a facility in America. HAAS is'nt a top tier formula 1 team but they also "piece-meal" their car.

Mclaren is in IndyCar even though the car is "badged" Mclaren.

Ex-Formula 1 driver Mark Webber has stated that Ferrari should move to the U.K. IF it wanted to return to it's glory days of the past.

Right. Because Mark Webber has how many WDC? He should be the authority on how to win them. Ferrari's 'glory days' happened when they were centralized in Italy.

[jgonzalesm6]

Right. Because Mark Webber has how many WDC? He should be the authority on how to win them. Ferrari's 'glory days' happened when they were centralized in Italy.

Mark went to LeMans and won there.

Yes, Ferrari's glory days where when they were centralized in Italy. That was a dream team. NOT GONNA HAPPEN AGAIN.....EVER. LdM and Marchionne want Italians to have the final say.

This is a different era of F1. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I want the best for Ferrari. There are teams beating Ferrari in 2020 with a 1/3 to 1/2 the cost and 1/3 to 1/2 the staff of what Ferrari has currently and looks to succeed on 2021.

Do we have the best in the F1 team? The only person that comes to mind is Leclerc at the moment. The strategist is poor, The aero is poor. The engine is poor. The correlation is poor. The pit crew is good.

[Silent Bob]

Mark went to LeMans and won there.

Yes, Ferrari's glory days where when they were centralized in Italy. That was a dream team. NOT GONNA HAPPEN AGAIN.....EVER. LdM and Marchionne want Italians to have the final say.

This is a different era of F1. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I want the best for Ferrari. There are teams beating Ferrari in 2020 with a 1/3 to 1/2 the cost and 1/3 to 1/2 the staff of what Ferrari has currently and looks to succeed on 2021.

Do we have the best in the F1 team? The only person that comes to mind is Leclerc at the moment. The strategist is poor, The aero is poor. The engine is poor. The correlation is poor. The pit crew is good.



LdM & Marchionne are no longer at Ferrari. What if moving to England means we lose Binotto or Resta or other high profile guys?
Think what you like, but just moving the whole kaboodle to england won't fix what's wrong. Why don't we let them settle down and start laying some foundations. A successful team will attract talent. Let's get this house in order before we move to another.

[jgonzalesm6]

LdM & Marchionne are no longer at Ferrari. What if moving to England means we lose Binotto or Resta or other high profile guys?
Think what you like, but just moving the whole kaboodle to england won't fix what's wrong. Why don't we let them settle down and start laying some foundations. A successful team will attract talent. Let's get this house in order before we move to another.

Ferrari has been laying foundations upon foundatons for over a decade. The "HOUSE' is in dis-array.....has been for over a decade. We're going backwards,,,,not forwards.

I have patience but this is getting to be unbelievable when compared to other teams that are beating Ferrari.

[Silent Bob]

Maybe that's the whole point. In 6 years we've had 4 team principles. Maybe sticking with one and letting them set up a system might be the right thing to do. If not we can fire them all and move to England.

[Greig]

Ferrari has been laying foundations upon foundatons for over a decade. The "HOUSE' is in dis-array.....has been for over a decade. We're going backwards,,,,not forwards.

I have patience but this is getting to be unbelievable when compared to other teams that are beating Ferrari.

Bit over dramatic we should have won titles in that decade, we are hardly as bad as you seem to make out. You could say Red Bull have been going backwards also since they won a title....oh and they are based in England....

[jgonzalesm6]

Bit over dramatic we should have won titles in that decade, we are hardly as bad as you seem to make out. You could say Red Bull have been going backwards also since they won a title....oh and they are based in England....

FFS.....the formula changed in 2014. Everyone went backwards when that happened and Mercedes had a 100hp lead.

RedBull in 2020 is beating Ferrari currently...so they are moving forwards. Thank-You Honda.

[FerrariF60]

A
FFS.....the formula changed in 2014. Everyone went backwards when that happened and Mercedes had a 100hp lead.

RedBull in 2020 is beating Ferrari currently...so they are moving forwards. Thank-You Honda.

+1000%.....could not agree more

[Brembo]

Ferrari thinking they had a Schumy Jr. in Seb was the downfall, period. Binotto was told Seb is #1 no matter what. If not up front from the start of the race Seb is no better than a F-2 rookie fighting in the pack. I can only hope Charles drives to " Kill!" win wise. Not even a podium for Ferrari ??? I don't believe the cars are that bad! Stroll up ahead ! :rotfl

[aroutis]

Ferrari F1, not the whole Ferrari, need diverstiy IF it want's to return to it's glory days. Being an ALL Italian F1 team will not solve their problems internally BUT I guess since being all Italian is more important....let's try next year......and next year......and next year.....and next year......and so on.

Binotto has made changes and he is still making changes. Ferrari F1 still has strategy issues with tires as we have seen in the last race and Seb being the strategist for himself.

With the amount of money that Ferrari F1 has, one would think they have made progress.....but it is quite the opposite.

Honda has an office in Milton Keynes. After 6 years and 2 teams they have made progress with the engine....beating Renault and Ferrari. Yet they don't have an all Japanese mantra at Milton Keynes....Of course the head guy on the engine is Japanese.

Mercedes AMG bought a team in England instead of making it an all German F1 team in Germany.

The talent pool is greater in this circle of F1 teams based in England and with Ferrari's money, they can hire the best engineers, aerodynamiciss, strategists, and so on to be great again.

Otherwise it will just be next year and next year and next year. Just because Ferrari tried in the past does'nt mean it won't work again. People change from within. This era in F1 is an entirely different animal.

Yes, I am sure that we were in England when we were sweeping the WDC and WCC... oh wait, noooo, we were in Italy.
DUH!

Here's the problem, we had real management, we had the right people in the right places, even when problems arose took the responsibilities and the team would not feel THE pressure, that would make for a more efficient environment, and guess what,
eventually the results would come.

If you compare that time with what happens today, guess what you'll see; Ah yes, the complete reverse. People asking for axes to fall and people to be beheaded, some people even asking for the F1 team to go to UK (omg LOL) and I don't know what else madness.

OK, let's get serious here. I mean, I understand, it's been years since last championship for the Scuderia, but on a serious note, it's all down to management. Even if i flick my fingers and the factory, the team, teleports (beam me up Scotty!) to England, you seriously think that 'll fix things? NO, it will not.
Unless we do what we did back when we brought Jean Todt and co. we'll keep doing what we do and things will only get worse.

Simple as that.

[JPZ]

Mercedes purchased Brawn, and before that Brawn purchased Honda which had purchased BAR.

Jaguar bought Stewart Grand Prix and Red Bull purchased Jaguar.

Toyota, on the other hand set up their own works team in the UK.

The majority of these teams bought teams which were already well established.

[jgonzalesm6]

Ferrari, Elkann: "Total trust in everyone, but patience is needed"

The President of the Cavallino spoke to the Gazzetta dello Sport about the current state of the Scuderia, admitting the difficulties of today, but confident that already in 2022 there may be a turnaround.

John Elkann asks patience from the Cavallino fans, guaranteeing the current team of the Scuderia the time necessary to return to the top.

The Ferrari President answered the many questions that emerged in this first part of the 2020 World Championship in an interview granted to La Gazzetta dello Sport.


A picture of great confidence and stability emerges, in which Elkann postpones the appointment for the victory to 2022, taking note of a current situation that is difficult to recover.

“The sporting part is undoubtedly going through a difficult period that starts from afar - confirmed the President of the Cavallino - we have not won a constructors' World Championship since 2008 and one riders since 2007. There have been the winning cycles of Red Bull for aerodynamic capacity and of Mercedes for the great skill in hybrid engine technologies.
"" This year we are not competitive even due to machine setting errors. We have had a number of structural weaknesses that have long existed in aerodynamics and vehicle dynamics. We have also lost in engine power. The reality is that our car is not competitive. You saw it on the track and you will see it again. Today we are laying the foundations for being competitive and returning to winning when the rules change in 2022. I am convinced of it. "

In the meantime, confidence in the current working group comes from Elkann, and especially in Mattia Binotto: “Total trust! Also because Mattia Binotto, who has taken the helm of the Scuderia for a year, has all the skills and characteristics to start a new winning cycle. He was in Ferrari with Todt and Schumi, he knows how to win and from next year he will work with two young and ambitious drivers like us ".


And speaking of pilots, Elkann has clarified the reasons that led to focus on a very young couple.

“In the last ten years we have had champions such as Alonso and Vettel who have been world champions - he confirmed - but it is undoubtedly more difficult to rebuild a cycle and ask for patience to those who have already won compared to those who have the future ahead of them. We are laying the foundations for building something important and lasting, and the contract we signed with Charles proves it: five years, never so long in Ferrari's history. Leclerc and Sainz will take home in Maranello, will be close to our engineers. The new machine will be born with them ".

The new machine to which Elkann refers is the one that will take part in the 2022 World Cup. So said, it is an implicit admission that in 2020 and 2021 there will only be suffering. How much has the technical freeze imposed by the regulation affected this situation?
“A lot, given that we start off poorly and we must be realistic and aware of the structural weaknesses of the machine with which we have been living for a decade and which the transition to hybrid has underlined. We have given the ok to the new rules starting from 2022, because we believe it is right that there is greater competitiveness within F1, and we do not see the limitation of budget caps as a constraint on our ability to win, we take it as a challenge ".

"Our engineers, our mechanics and our drivers will find in those constraints the strength and creativity to bring Ferrari back to the top. Personally I have never seen in the last 10 years such a cohesive and strong spirit".

And what can you say to Ferrari fans? When will they have to wait to find the Reds in front of everyone?

“The fans are suffering as much as we are, but we know they are close to us. This is why it is important to be clear and honest with them. A long path awaits us. When Todt opened that historic cycle in 2000, we came from a fast that had lasted for over twenty years, from 1979 ... It took time, from the landing in Maranello in 1993 to Ferrari's return to success. The important thing then is to work on the track and off the track, in a cohesive way, building the Ferrari we want step by step ".

"Being President of Ferrari is a huge responsibility, which I am happy to share with Piero Ferrari and all those who work there. Ferrari is a unique reality, which has only thousands of customers but millions of fans and makes hundreds of millions dream people in the world. It is a company that knows how to combine beauty with performance. It has deep roots, in Maranello in Emilia, in Italy, and can speak to the world ".


https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-elkann-totale-fiducia-a-tutti-ma-serve-pazienza/4845158/&prev=search&pto=aue

[Greig]

FFS.....the formula changed in 2014. Everyone went backwards when that happened and Mercedes had a 100hp lead.

RedBull in 2020 is beating Ferrari currently...so they are moving forwards. Thank-You Honda.

Beating Ferrari does not suggest moving forwards, when Ferrari are moving backwards (your words) so which one is it?

Red Bull based in England with all these experts and still not moving forward....suppose you could wonder why Williams and McLaren are not winning title after title also being based in England....

[jgonzalesm6]

Beating Ferrari does not suggest moving forwards, when Ferrari are moving backwards (your words) so which one is it?

Red Bull based in England with all these experts and still not moving forward....suppose you could wonder why Williams and McLaren are not winning title after title also being based in England....


There are new 3 teams beating Ferrar in 2020i with another team who seems to be on aoother level since the start of 2014.....ALL 4 teams are based in England.

These 3 new teams have made forward progress for 2020 against Ferrari.

One can make the arguement that had these 3 new teams beating Ferrari for 2020 HAD NOT been based in England, they probably would not be beating Ferrari in 2020??

BTW, in case you have'nt noticed, no one can beat Mercedes currently and win title after title. They set the standard of what an F1 team is....year after year. It's frustating but understandable.

[Greig]

They can be based on Mars and still beat us with the Merc engine....

[jgonzalesm6]

They can be based on Mars and still beat us with the Merc engine....

Tell that to Wiiliams.

McLaren currently has a Renault engine.

RedBull has a Honda engine.

[Silent Bob]

Tell that to Wiiliams.

McLaren currently has a Renault engine.

RedBull has a Honda engine.



And Ferrari had a double DNF. Where were these teams in 2016, 2017, 2018 or 2019? Were they still in England or did they just move there for this year and suddenly become better than us?

[jgonzalesm6]

And Ferrari had a double DNF. Where were these teams in 2016, 2017, 2018 or 2019? Were they still in England or did they just move there for this year and suddenly become better than us?

They became better than us. RedBull's 2nd year with the Honda engine. Max beat both Ferrari drivers in 2019.

Mclaren hired an LMP1 Porsche engineer last year and has turned the team around this year not to mention Lando Norris. AMG PU for 2021.

Racing Point copied a W10 for 2020 and is under the helm of Lawrence Stroll since 2019. It's not original but it works.

RedBull look to copy Mercedes for Alpha Tauri if the protest cited by Renault gets thrown out the window.

These teams have progressed for 2020 and quite possibly into 2021. It took a year for the progression. It doesn't happen overnight. If they can do it, why can't Ferrari??

[Greig]

Tell that to Wiiliams.

McLaren currently has a Renault engine.

RedBull has a Honda engine.

Williams who have 0 points and based in the hallowed England....something wrong there then...

[Greig]

They became better than us. RedBull's 2nd year with the Honda engine. Max beat both Ferrari drivers in 2019.

Mclaren hired an LMP1 Porsche engineer last year and has turned the team around this year not to mention Lando Norris. AMG PU for 2021.

Racing Point copied a W10 for 2020 and is under the helm of Lawrence Stroll since 2019. It's not original but it works.

RedBull look to copy Mercedes for Alpha Tauri if the protest cited by Renault gets thrown out the window.

These teams have progressed for 2020 and quite possibly into 2021. It took a year for the progression. It doesn't happen overnight. If they can do it, why can't Ferrari??

Our drivers mistakes greatly helped Max beat them...not cause we are based in Italy.

We could copy the Merc based in Italy if we really wanted...no need to be in England

McLaren have turned it around? really after 3 races....oh ok then.

[Silent Bob]

They became better than us. RedBull's 2nd year with the Honda engine. Max beat both Ferrari drivers in 2019.

Mclaren hired an LMP1 Porsche engineer last year and has turned the team around this year not to mention Lando Norris. AMG PU for 2021.

Racing Point copied a W10 for 2020 and is under the helm of Lawrence Stroll since 2019. It's not original but it works.

RedBull look to copy Mercedes for Alpha Tauri if the protest cited by Renault gets thrown out the window.

These teams have progressed for 2020 and quite possibly into 2021. It took a year for the progression. It doesn't happen overnight. If they can do it, why can't Ferrari??



Can't now anyways. Leclerc and Sainz moving to Italy. Guess there are some people willing to relocate.

But seriously, like Greig said, these teams haven't progressed as much as Ferrari has fallen back and we know the main cause of that. McLaren has been rebuilding for many years, Red Bull has been at or behind Ferrari for the last few years and Racing Point is a Merc copy. If you want Ferrari to be competitive quickly like Racing Point, maybe we should hire a master forger rather than aero/chassis engineers. If Ferrari hadn't been so handicapped by it's engine, they'd be well ahead of those teams, and you can't deny that.

[Brembo]

Meanwhile Charles and Stroll are tied @ 18pts. after 3 races.

[stefa]

Can't now anyways. Leclerc and Sainz moving to Italy. Guess there are some people willing to relocate.

But seriously, like Greig said, these teams haven't progressed as much as Ferrari has fallen back and we know the main cause of that. McLaren has been rebuilding for many years, Red Bull has been at or behind Ferrari for the last few years and Racing Point is a Merc copy. If you want Ferrari to be competitive quickly like Racing Point, maybe we should hire a master forger rather than aero/chassis engineers. If Ferrari hadn't been so handicapped by it's engine, they'd be well ahead of those teams, and you can't deny that.

Maybe that is not so bad idea at all! After all almost decade Ferrari aero/chassis engineers are having correlation problems with wind tunnel!

[KimiBot]

I would kick out Elkann and Binotto.
It is business, and Elkann/Binotto team is doing bad business.

[nani_s23]

Binotto: "I am not the technical director anymore, I am only the team principal now."

➡️ : He said that they are looking for people outside of Ferrari and that they are not looking at the nationality but they have to find the right people.

Binotto also said that despite John Elkann's words (that they won't win until 2022), they will try everything and work hard to win before that.

[Silent Bob]

Looks like Binotto has been listening to Brembo, puting out some positive vibes........



But Binotto is not completely writing off the next two years as they continue in their search for success.

Binotto added: “We just changed our technical organisation recently back in Maranello. We had to reorganise that.

I am not doing the technical director role anymore. We need to have people that are fully responsible of the various areas. I think we got it.

“There are many tasks managing an entire company, there is no time to do everything.

“If you look back in the past, if you look at the history of F1, each time there was a winning circle for some teams, it was always when there was a big regulation change.

“It has been the case for us, Red Bull and Mercedes. 2022 is a big important opportunity for us.

“That doesn’t mean that from now to 2022 we won’t challenge our rivals, we try to do our best, try to progress our car but we are aware that the gap is significant and this time is very limited.

“Today [Sunday] we got a podium and there can be great races in the future.”

[Silent Bob]

Looks like Binotto has been listening to Brembo, puting out some positive vibes........



But Binotto is not completely writing off the next two years as they continue in their search for success.

Binotto added: “We just changed our technical organisation recently back in Maranello. We had to reorganise that.

I am not doing the technical director role anymore. We need to have people that are fully responsible of the various areas. I think we got it.

“There are many tasks managing an entire company, there is no time to do everything.

“If you look back in the past, if you look at the history of F1, each time there was a winning circle for some teams, it was always when there was a big regulation change.

“It has been the case for us, Red Bull and Mercedes. 2022 is a big important opportunity for us.

“That doesn’t mean that from now to 2022 we won’t challenge our rivals, we try to do our best, try to progress our car but we are aware that the gap is significant and this time is very limited.

“Today [Sunday] we got a podium and there can be great races in the future.”

[Brembo]

It's back to work @ Ferrari !! There's now and i believe always was hope for this season at least with regards to podiums and even a pole or a win! I admire Charles more than ever for his constant belief and work . He's a strong personality and believes when the race starts he's got a chance. I justwish Seb to also have some interest in coming up front best he can. Stop looking in the mail box only !:rotfl

[Lesky]

I hope Ferrari finishes last in both races in italy, that might be the only thing to save Ferrari if the italian media forces the top brass to get rid of Binotto! With Binotto in charge, we have zero chance.

[tifosi1993]

Your "Italian media forces the top brass to get rid of Binotto" sentence is the main problem.

A team like Ferrari shouldn't care about media opinions, especially the sensationalist gutter rags known as the Italian media. Ferrari should simply ignore it. Binotto's job is to guide and govern the team, he shouldn't be wasting time listening to a bunch of ignorant idiots.

And unlike some here, I don't want Binotto to go. Ferrari must've learned their lessons by now after firing Aldo Costa, and as a Ferrari fan, I don't want the history to repeat itself again.

[Brembo]

Binotto's last interview has Ferrari's problems based on tire grip. No grip accelerating or braking. It's the tires not the car or drivers at fault .Back to F- Pirelli!

[nhiepka]

Inviting Flavio

[aroutis]

Everyone has same tyres. Enough with the excuses

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

[Brembo]

Everyone has same tyres. Enough with the excuses

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

I was thinking the same thing. As far as Flavio, Toto & throw in Todt would not know what hit them. I'm glad he's recovering.

[aroutis]

Your "Italian media forces the top brass to get rid of Binotto" sentence is the main problem.

A team like Ferrari shouldn't care about media opinions, especially the sensationalist gutter rags known as the Italian media. Ferrari should simply ignore it. Binotto's job is to guide and govern the team, he shouldn't be wasting time listening to a bunch of ignorant idiots.

And unlike some here, I don't want Binotto to go. Ferrari must've learned their lessons by now after firing Aldo Costa, and as a Ferrari fan, I don't want the history to repeat itself again.Actually his job is to produce results and so far he has been failing tragically. This is his last chance after the restructure and tho I will agree that he has to concentrate to produce results , he is accountable to any and all that will happen here forth.
So, excuses like it is the tyres ,the winds, God knows what next , are laughable at best and he should learn to shut up and put up and understand that when he opens his mouth he is Ferrari .

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[tifosi1993]

Actually his job is to produce results and so far he has been failing tragically. This is his last chance after the restructure and tho I will agree that he has to concentrate to produce results , he is accountable to any and all that will happen here forth.
So, excuses like it is the tyres ,the winds, God knows what next , are laughable at best and he should learn to shut up and put up and understand that when he opens his mouth he is Ferrari .

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Well...it's not just Binotto, Mekies also said the same thing. They simply can't work the tyres properly here.

And excuses or not, I know for a fact that if Binotto leaves Ferrari, he's not going to have any problem securing another job at either Mercedes or Red Bull. Just like Aldo Costa's departure, it will another big lose for Ferrari.

[nani_s23]

Well...it's not just Binotto, Mekies also said the same thing. They simply can't work the tyres properly here.

And excuses or not, I know for a fact that if Binotto leaves Ferrari, he's not going to have any problem securing another job at either Mercedes or Red Bull. Just like Aldo Costa's departure, it will another big lose for Ferrari.

There are lot of them in the queue if ferrari wishes to hire from out of its base market.
Binotto is a TP not a TD anymore, who should own the responsibility of all the depts & handle smoothly.

He said we have a good surprise here, but what is it?

[aroutis]

Well...it's not just Binotto, Mekies also said the same thing. They simply can't work the tyres properly here.

And excuses or not, I know for a fact that if Binotto leaves Ferrari, he's not going to have any problem securing another job at either Mercedes or Red Bull. Just like Aldo Costa's departure, it will another big lose for Ferrari.Again you miss the point : all the teams including even Alfa Romeo get the same specs and work with the same rules. Understand there are no excuses and they need to stop making excuses if they want to produce solutions. If they cannot , the door should be open and God forbid if Ferrari is afraid of them going to the competition. If we are growing this small we might as well close shop.

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[aroutis]

There are lot of them in the queue if ferrari wishes to hire from out of its base market.
Binotto is a TP not a TD anymore, who should own the responsibility of all the depts & handle smoothly.

He said we have a good surprise here, but what is it?You saw it.

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[Silent Bob]

Again you miss the point : all the teams including even Alfa Romeo get the same specs and work with the same rules. Understand there are no excuses and they need to stop making excuses if they want to produce solutions. If they cannot , the door should be open and God forbid if Ferrari is afraid of them going to the competition. If we are growing this small we might as well close shop.

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Maybe the problem is that everyone has been leaving. Maybe a guy like Binotto and even Elkann who are less fire & brimstone and a little calmer is just what Ferrari needs right now. If they are recruiting talent, then Binotto is on the right track with becoming just the TP. Hire new people and let them produce, don't throw out the people that might come up with the magic bullet. Binotto is an engineer, so if he can oversee development and keep everyone focused maybe we have a shot at coming out of this in good shape.
Seems we've also been getting some clout back with the FIA, especially with some of these new tech directives, so maybe these 2 guys are a bit tougher in the background than what they project.

[Silent Bob]

Actually his job is to produce results and so far he has been failing tragically. This is his last chance after the restructure and tho I will agree that he has to concentrate to produce results , he is accountable to any and all that will happen here forth.
So, excuses like it is the tyres ,the winds, God knows what next , are laughable at best and he should learn to shut up and put up and understand that when he opens his mouth he is Ferrari .

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

I think we know what the problem is and it's not going to change any time soon. The car was designed with lots of downforce expecting to use an engine that had a lot more power. Now they have to shed downforce to gain some speed. It's not working too well.

[JPZ]

I don't believe that Binotto should be replaced.

Also, it seems this is what Toto Wolff is trying to achieve with his instigating in the media, clearly he wants Binotto to be replaced which will cause even more instability and confusion at Ferrari.

In terms of performance, there is not much Ferrari can do right now anyway.

[Silent Bob]

Wolf was careful with his words... he said Ferrari is an institution did not want to discredit the organization, only some individuals. Maybe Wolf angling for a new job at the most famous team in F1. Maybe wants to bring Hamilton over.
Cowell, Wolf and Ham over to Ferrari?

[JPZ]

Wolf was careful with his words... he said Ferrari is an institution did not want to discredit the organization, only some individuals. Maybe Wolf angling for a new job at the most famous team in F1. Maybe wants to bring Hamilton over.
Cowell, Wolf and Ham over to Ferrari?

Or just his attempts at psychological warfare at Ferrari and the current management.

[tifosi1993]

Again you miss the point : all the teams including even Alfa Romeo get the same specs and work with the same rules. Understand there are no excuses and they need to stop making excuses if they want to produce solutions. If they cannot , the door should be open and God forbid if Ferrari is afraid of them going to the competition. If we are growing this small we might as well close shop.

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

To you it sounds like excuse, to me it was factual description of events. Fact, Ferrari was competitive and had the best race of 2020 in Silverstone race 2, not because of the tyres, but because of the high ambient and track temperature compared to Silverstone race 1. Ferrari had their best qualifying performance in Hungary, but struggled during the race when the track was damp and the temperature was low. Spain, bad qualifying, but the race temp was higher and Leclerc was lapping faster than TP, Mclaren and pretty much all the car on track bar the Mercedes and Verstappen, while being stuck behind traffic. Spa, only 17C ambient temp and 38C track temp. And Ferrari struggled massively both on Saturday and Sunday.

They can't make solutions without identifying the problems. And speaking of tyres, the 2013 Mercedes was the fastest car in Spain qualifying, but had horrible tyre drop off and barely finished on points.

Right now, Ferrari has to sacrifice a lot of downforce for the lack of power, which is also reducing the aero load on tyres. If we had last years PU and ran with last years downforce level, we wouldn't be hearing about any tyre problems. But the realty is different, and rule-wise, they can't do anything about it.

[tifosi1993]

There are lot of them in the queue if ferrari wishes to hire from out of its base market.
Binotto is a TP not a TD anymore, who should own the responsibility of all the depts & handle smoothly.

He said we have a good surprise here, but what is it?

Is there? To me it looks completely different. Ferrari is in Italy, and moving from UK to Italy is like moving from one continent to the other. Huge language barrier, Italian politics, many don't like to deal with such stuffs. So I don't see any queue forming up for a job at Maranello. It's actually the other way around.

And don't take me for a fan of TP Binotto. I do think he should go back to his previous TD role. But if he's unwilling, and if his supposed replacement is another boring internal name, then it's not gonna change anything.

And I've been hearing a lot about this so called "surprise". Can someone show me the actual source?

[Silent Bob]

Would be even better if we had last year's PU and ran with this year's downforce that we had at Barcelona testing. S3 in Barcelona was pretty good, better than last year.

[tifosi1993]

Yup. Ferrari has made decent gains with the chassis, even SPA sector 2 was better than last year, quite impressive.

[Noquarter]

Yup. Ferrari has made decent gains with the chassis, even SPA sector 2 was better than last year, quite impressive.

Last year, the track was much slower than 2018. Almost a second. So there is nothing to believe in improving the sector. Aerodynamics is as weak as the engine.

[Silent Bob]

Our sector 3 in Barcelona was pretty good. If we had an engine we could have reverted to the car we had back then. Lots of downforce and an engine that could still push us to respectable top speed.

[alfa84]

Driver handling?! It was Vettel who insisted to have or no a contract because, of course he feeled that it was the end. After that, under H Marko guidance, he made it public. This was selfish from him, but is in line with his childish caracter.
What could Mattia do?

[tifosi1993]

Driver handling?! It was Vettel who insisted to have or no a contract because, of course he feeled that it was the end. After that, under H Marko guidance, he made it public. This was selfish from him, but is in line with his childish caracter.
What could Mattia do?

Indeed. His career as a racing may be over, but atleast he can try his luck in politics. After all Vettel is a master of doublespeak. Just look at the amount of sympathy he has in this forum.

[nani_s23]

https://twitter.com/andreazalone/status/1301812506537623553?s=21

:rotfl

[tifosi1993]

https://twitter.com/andreazalone/status/1301812506537623553?s=21

:rotfl

Nothing funny about it. Maybe it's funny to some Vettel fans, because they are bitter about Binotto and Ferrari, but I hardly thing any true Ferrari fan will find it funny.

[JPMFerrari]

Another race, another weak performance expected.

[nani_s23]

Nothing funny about it. Maybe it's funny to some Vettel fans, because they are bitter about Binotto and Ferrari, but I hardly thing any true Ferrari fan will find it funny.

May be for you it’s not. Whoever posted it they are ferrari fans for your reference.
Ohhh for you whatever binotto does is good even his mistakes, for me it’s not.

Everyone is accountable of ferrari performance if it’s a mistake, may be it’s not for some anti fans who target one particular driver.

[nani_s23]

Binotto on Andy Cowell: "As far as I am aware he is still working at Mercedes currently. But certainly he is a great name in F1. Is he someone that will join Ferrari very soon? It's not the case."

[tifosi1993]

May be for you it’s not. Whoever posted it they are ferrari fans for your reference.
Ohhh for you whatever binotto does is good even his mistakes, for me it’s not.

Everyone is accountable of ferrari performance if it’s a mistake, may be it’s not for some anti fans who target one particular driver.

And? So what if the original poster is a Ferrari fan (according to you anyway)?

And you are the one talk about to "mistake", Vettel crashing or spinning 26 times in his Ferrari career (excluding practice and qualifying) is nowhere near to Binotto or another team members so called "mistakes". But you always jump on to defend Vettel and pull a blind eye when he spins or crashes, and bash other team members.

[Silent Bob]

Binotto on Andy Cowell: "As far as I am aware he is still working at Mercedes currently. But certainly he is a great name in F1. Is he someone that will join Ferrari very soon? It's not the case."

But he didn't say he wasn't joining. Just not very soon. Maybe there is something happening there.

[nani_s23]

And? So what if the original poster is a Ferrari fan (according to you anyway)?

And you are the one talk about to "mistake", Vettel crashing or spinning 26 times in his Ferrari career (excluding practice and qualifying) is nowhere near to Binotto or another team members so called "mistakes". But you always jump on to defend Vettel and pull a blind eye when he spins or crashes, and bash other team members.

:rotfl look who’s saying ? Bashing team members?
When vettel crashes immediate post when other driver crashes no post :rotfl

Simple logic, vettel done mistakes he’s out. But what about binotto? Dud cars, what’s your answer ? First answer this.
Shall I say your reply ? He shouldn’t be out ... reason you & me know very well :-D

It’s you whoever try to post against binotto, treat them like a hell ...!! You are not viewing your own posts.
Bash vettel, defend binotto.

Leave everything, just answer my question. Posted long back, now doing it again for you
When the car is good, vettel didn’t perform made several mistakes & we can throw him out. Very good.
When the car is not good, drivers need to Sit & drive the car ? That’s it? No one is accountable ?
What kind of statement you are passing?

[nani_s23]

But he didn't say he wasn't joining. Just not very soon. Maybe there is something happening there.

Might be, but I’m not seeing anything of such.

[Silent Bob]

Wonder if they can convince Newey and Cowell to.join? That would add some talent.

[Brembo]

Ferrari signed Shumy Jr. up for $50, million a year thinking he has 4WDCs. and all he needed was 3 more to make Ferrari the team with 2 GOATs. I believe the 4WDC as great a record as that is; cost Seb the mid field experience he and Ferrari didn't realize he would need and still needs now that his R Bull rocket is no longer his ride. Seb also for sure didn't expect Charles to be #1 by results ; not contracts. Putting all that aside; Binotto must at all costs stop saying it will be tears and years until Ferrari has a shot at a comeback at being in contention. Charles has what it takes to compete as a driver. Don't force him to think otherwise. Maximum enthusiasm is what Charles deserves!!

[tifosi1993]

:rotfl look who’s saying ? Bashing team members?
When vettel crashes immediate post when other driver crashes no post :rotfl

Simple logic, vettel done mistakes he’s out. But what about binotto? Dud cars, what’s your answer ? First answer this.
Shall I say your reply ? He shouldn’t be out ... reason you & me know very well :-D

It’s you whoever try to post against binotto, treat them like a hell ...!! You are not viewing your own posts.
Bash vettel, defend binotto.

Leave everything, just answer my question. Posted long back, now doing it again for you
When the car is good, vettel didn’t perform made several mistakes & we can throw him out. Very good.
When the car is not good, drivers need to Sit & drive the car ? That’s it? No one is accountable ?
What kind of statement you are passing?

Because other drivers are driving for other teams, not Ferrari. Why should anyone post here "Oh look x driver crashing and costing x team lot of points", because if they crash more often then it's fine. But when a Ferrari driver, especially someone who's being paid 40 millions, crashes more than anyone in the entire grid, then it's a problem. Not that hard to understand.

Sometimes a car is bad, sometimes it's good. But if you want people to be held accountable for bad cars, then you should blame the aero guys, design teams, CFD and wind tunnel guys, and drivers as well, because they are the ones who're providing the real world feedback. And Vettel's been in F1 for 14 years, and if he still can't provide adequate feedbacks, then the problem isn't solely on Ferrari.

My statement is pretty simple. A driver should give his best, regardless how the car is. Drivers, especially Ferrari drivers, shouldn't be making mistakes left-right. It's you with your bollywood logic can't gasp that simple fact. "What about other drivers", yeah...you worry about "other drivers" and let us worry about Ferrari drivers.

[nani_s23]

Because other drivers are driving for other teams, not Ferrari. Why should anyone post here "Oh look x driver crashing and costing x team lot of points", because if they crash more often then it's fine. But when a Ferrari driver, especially someone who's being paid 40 millions, crashes more than anyone in the entire grid, then it's a problem. Not that hard to understand.

Sometimes a car is bad, sometimes it's good. But if you want people to be held accountable for bad cars, then you should blame the aero guys, design teams, CFD and wind tunnel guys, and drivers as well, because they are the ones who're providing the real world feedback. And Vettel's been in F1 for 14 years, and if he still can't provide adequate feedbacks, then the problem isn't solely on Ferrari.

My statement is pretty simple. A driver should give his best, regardless how the car is. Drivers, especially Ferrari drivers, shouldn't be making mistakes left-right. It's you with your bollywood logic can't gasp that simple fact. "What about other drivers", yeah...you worry about "other drivers" and let us worry about Ferrari drivers.

Yeah finally you got to the actual point. Drivers feedback is valuable, but taking those into consideration & foresee the department are aligned on giving the actual performance too important.
If you don’t give the best car, at least give them the strong car not the mediocre one.

My point is simple. No vettel/No binotto, everyone is accountable to their roles. If Leclerc too make mistakes, ferrari will look for another star driver for the next cycle. But where do engineers fit into this category?
Alonso drove with Ferrari it was SD leading the TP role. Alonso left, SD was sacked to other department.
Vettel was with ferrari 2014-2020, we had 2 strong cars in which one of them in unreliable. What about other 4 seasons?

Drivers package looks more visible, what about other like engineer who are doing their job with no performance & still drawing the best package aren’t they heavy to ferrari? Only driver with 40mil$ looks heavy?

[tifosi1993]

Yeah finally you got to the actual point. Drivers feedback is valuable, but taking those into consideration & foresee the department are aligned on giving the actual performance too important.
If you don’t give the best car, at least give them the strong car not the mediocre one.

My point is simple. No vettel/No binotto, everyone is accountable to their roles. If Leclerc too make mistakes, ferrari will look for another star driver for the next cycle. But where do engineers fit into this category?
Alonso drove with Ferrari it was SD leading the TP role. Alonso left, SD was sacked to other department.
Vettel was with ferrari 2014-2020, we had 2 strong cars in which one of them in unreliable. What about other 4 seasons?

Drivers package looks more visible, what about other like engineer who are doing their job with no performance & still drawing the best package aren’t they heavy to ferrari? Only driver with 40mil$ looks heavy?

Again, you are talking about "whataboutism". So yeah, what about other 4 seasons? He literally never had one single clean season. Every season he made mistakes. And it got more costly when the car was good.

Now you're blaming reliability. 2018 car had 100% reliability record, the 2017 car had reliability problems, but was it more unreliable compared to the 2017 Mercedes? No it wasn't. So yet another deflection and false distinction from your part.

If the 2017 car was more unreliable than Mercedes, sure blame it on the car. But Vettel lost 50 points by his own accord, in Baku and Singapore, and especially Singapore which costed Ferrari an easy one-two. To me that's a far bigger factor than 2017 Ferrari's reliability.

You have been bashing Binotto and the pit-crews, while literally turning a blind eye on Vettel's numerus mistakes. Yesterday when he spun, you again tried to deflect it by saying "other drivers did it too".

The reason for Vettel's departure shouldn't be attributed only to his crashes and spins. One of the biggest factor is Leclerc, and who has already proven himself to be a better driver than Vettel.

[nani_s23]

Again, you are talking about "whataboutism". So yeah, what about other 4 seasons? He literally never had one single clean season. Every season he made mistakes. And it got more costly when the car was good.

Now you're blaming reliability. 2018 car had 100% reliability record, the 2017 car had reliability problems, but was it more unreliable compared to the 2017 Mercedes? No it wasn't. So yet another deflection and false distinction from your part.


If the 2017 car was more unreliable than Mercedes, sure blame it on the car. But Vettel lost 50 points by his own accord, in Baku and Singapore, and especially Singapore which costed Ferrari an easy one-two. To me that's a far bigger factor than 2017 Ferrari's reliability.

You have been bashing Binotto and the pit-crews, while literally turning a blind eye on Vettel's numerus mistakes. Yesterday when he spun, you again tried to deflect it by saying "other drivers did it too".

The reason for Vettel's departure shouldn't be attributed only to his crashes and spins. One of the biggest factor is Leclerc, and who has already proven himself to be a better driver than Vettel.

When i said 2018 was a strong car under MA, where he was handling it perfect. You replied no it was not by tobacco man, but by SM.
On the similar note, I’ve said 2014/2015/2016 cars where binotto was involved too then reply was oh no it was Not binotto it’s JA.
Now Binotto didn’t have a clean season, didn’t do 26 mistakes, he will end up at Merc/RB. Glad that you know his future contract outside ferrari :-)

Just go through your postings once again, going Like a crazy without a meaningless content.

[tifosi1993]

When i said 2018 was a strong car under MA, where he was handling it perfect. You replied no it was not by tobacco man, but by SM.
On the similar note, I’ve said 2014/2015/2016 cars where binotto was involved too then reply was oh no it was Not binotto it’s JA.
Now Binotto didn’t have a clean season, didn’t do 26 mistakes, he will end up at Merc/RB. Glad that you know his future contract outside ferrari :-)

Just go through your postings once again, going Like a crazy without a meaningless content.

So you blame they guy who wasn't a TD back in 2014-January of 2016 for the cars like 2014-2016 Ferrari's. Ok. :lol
So according to you, Andy Cowell should be credited for Merc's aero performance. :lol
According to you, MA did all the work. And if he was here right now, all would be good. Yeah...like Ferrari was the epitome of leadership under MA. There was no problem whatsoever. So I do wonder why Ferrari remained title less under his reign? Since you are attributing everyone's faults, especially Vettel, on Binotto. Then you should apply the same logic here.

Have you ever heard about the individual known as Sergio Marchionne? The man who promoted Binotto to TD role, and whom always wanted Binotto to replace MA as the TP? And Leclerc to replace Raikkonen? I don't think you have.

But you are right. No point having meaningless discussion with someone who doesn't even understand the role of a TD and TP, and always has to resort to "Whataboutothers" when Vettel crashes or spins. But lets see what happens next year. When Ferrari will have a upgraded engine, something they properly worked on, and Leclerc-Sainz lineup delivering results. But then you'd probably still blame Binotto for some weird reasons.

[nani_s23]

So you blame they guy who wasn't a TD back in 2014-January of 2016 for the cars like 2014-2016 Ferrari's. Ok. :lol
So according to you, Andy Cowell should be credited for Merc's aero performance. :lol
According to you, MA did all the work. And if he was here right now, all would be good. Yeah...like Ferrari was the epitome of leadership under MA. There was no problem whatsoever. So I do wonder why Ferrari remained title less under his reign? Since you are attributing everyone's faults, especially Vettel, on Binotto. Then you should apply the same logic here.

Have you ever heard about the individual known as Sergio Marchionne? The man who promoted Binotto to TD role, and whom always wanted Binotto to replace MA as the TP? And Leclerc to replace Raikkonen? I don't think you have.

But you are right. No point having meaningless discussion with someone who doesn't even understand the role of a TD and TP, and always has to resort to "Whataboutothers" when Vettel crashes or spins. But lets see what happens next year. When Ferrari will have a upgraded engine, something they properly worked on, and Leclerc-Sainz lineup delivering results. But then you'd probably still blame Binotto for some weird reasons.

That’s why I call again & again baseless posts without actual content.

I’ve said the same 10-13 races more to go? 10-13 times vettel will spin & 13 posts from you on every spin.
But after that ? Whom you gonna blame ? Sainz? :rotfl for not giving the feedback ? Or Charles not winning the championship with slower car? :rotfl

I’m really eager to see your posts after vettel’s exit. :rotfl, more eager than our team come back.

[tifosi1993]

That’s why I call again & again baseless posts without actual content.

I’ve said the same 10-13 races more to go? 10-13 times vettel will spin & 13 posts from you on every spin.
But after that ? Whom you gonna blame ? Sainz? :rotfl for not giving the feedback ? Or Charles not winning the championship with slower car? :rotfl

I’m really eager to see your posts after vettel’s exit. :rotfl, more eager than our team come back.

Again whataboutism. Bringing up Charles, Sainz and what not. How desperate can you be. :lol
When Vettel spins or bins the car on the wall, there's always gonna be complains from me. But for a die hard Vettel fan, than can be incomprehensible.

And you're more eager about my posts than Ferrari's resurgence? WOW. :lol

At least you are not pretending to be a Ferrari fan anymore, so that's good.

[nani_s23]

Again whataboutism. Bringing up Charles, Sainz and what not. How desperate can you be. :lol
When Vettel spins or bins the car on the wall, there's always gonna be complains from me. But for a die hard Vettel fan, than can be incomprehensible.

And you're more eager about my posts than Ferrari's resurgence? WOW. :lol

At least you are not pretending to be a Ferrari fan anymore, so that's good.

Yeah the way you pretend to be ferrari fan with one agenda :rotfl. I’ve learnt the most from you. Anti vettel posts.
For your craziness I’m adding myself into it with binotto :rotfl

Yeah desperate, because you have the crystal ball right.? Binotto will go to Merc/RB. Next year we will have a strong car :rotfl

[tifosi1993]

Yeah the way you pretend to be ferrari fan with one agenda :rotfl. I’ve learnt the most from you. Anti vettel posts.
For your craziness I’m adding myself into it with binotto :rotfl

Yeah desperate, because you have the crystal ball right.? Binotto will go to Merc/RB. Next year we will have a strong car :rotfl

I hoping next years car is going to be strong. That's what fans do. Wishing for a strong car is nothing to laugh at. Pathetic.
And if Binotto leaves he will get a job at another team, again there's nothing to laugh at. So it's better if Binotto stays with Ferrari, and what's more, Luis Camilleri said the same thing, so its doesn't matter if a die hard Vettel fan like yourself being salty about it.

Maybe you have joined this forum for some Vettel lovefest. But that's simply not possible, considering his performance as a Ferrari driver.

[nani_s23]

I hoping next years car is going to be strong. That's what fans do. Wishing for a strong car is nothing to laugh at. Pathetic.
And if Binotto leaves he will get a job at another team, again there's nothing to laugh at. So it's better if Binotto stays with Ferrari, and what's more, Luis Camilleri said the same thing, so its doesn't matter if a die hard Vettel fan like yourself being salty about it.

Maybe you have joined this forum for some Vettel lovefest. But that's simply not possible, considering his performance as a Ferrari driver.

Binotto die hard fan getting crazy :rotfl. If someone talks against binotto they are vettel fans :rotfl

When I’m talking about TP role, you are talking about vettel spin :rotfl
When I’m talking about Binnoto TP role is useless, you are talking about vettels
‘S 26 mistakes :rotfl
When I’m talking about Binnoto cheap politics to become TP (you might not remember there was a article where it was mentioned binotto will move out of Ferrari if not given TP role) (check 2018 posts), you were talking about Vettel cross talking.....

It seems you are desperate about vettel, May be a nightmare :rotfl

[JPMFerrari]

Bring back Ross Brawn, problem solved. :-D

[nani_s23]

Bring back Ross Brawn, problem solved. :-D

He was offered, but not willing to come back.

I think if we can pitch in James Key/Andy.... May be we stand at good chance.

[JPMFerrari]

He was offered, but not willing to come back.

I think if we can pitch in James Key/Andy.... May be we stand at good chance.

That would be nice. :clap

[Hornet]

Not sure how this topic became about Vettel.
Pretty sure there are many long time Ferrari fans out there who are unhappy with the current group of people running Ferrari F1 team, nothing to do with Vettel.

Right or wrong, it's a natural thing because at the end of the day, a manager is accountable for the team's results.
That's why managers earn more money than the rest us.

[nani_s23]

Not sure how this topic became about Vettel.
Pretty sure there are many long time Ferrari fans out there who are unhappy with the current group of people running Ferrari F1 team, nothing to do with Vettel.

Right or wrong, it's a natural thing because at the end of the day, a manager is accountable for the team's results.
That's why managers earn more money than the rest us.

:clap exactly, but when I say this don’t know why vettel topic comes into the picture.
Term me as a vettel fan, due to my join date. May be this guy doesn’t know I’ve been watching this forum long ago when Alonso joined ferrari.
End of the day it’s just a sport. Shouldn’t drag personal families into such conversation. That’s what I want to say.

[paolo lalli]

Very true keep the chat honest but do not make it personal .That's when you overstep the line.