Vettel: "Something" is going on with my car

[tifosi1993]

Vettel few minutes ago on Sky Germany:

"I didn't feel comfortable at all. There must be something. Can't be that we made a step back overnight."

So now he is implying that Ferrari is sabotaging his car. What an awful driver.

[Lesky]

Could also be something wrong with the car that was not intentional, Vettel did not say what you are "implying".

[tifosi1993]

Could also be something wrong with the car that was not intentional, Vettel did not say what you are "implying".

"There must be something. Can't be that we made a step back overnight"

So do tell me, what exactly he's trying to tell here?

[chinmay]

Vettel, post race:


The way it is now, we are not getting anywhere. There is something fundamentally wrong somewhere, either with me or the car. It is not the most stressful time but certainly not the nicest.

Vettel, post race radio:


Similar to quali. Struggling lap to lap.

[chinmay]

Could also be something wrong with the car that was not intentional, Vettel did not say what you are "implying".

Well let him speak. He is finally relieved that Leclerc managed to beat Vettel after being beaten in the previous 2 races.

[patrese86]

i doubt he is implying anything purposely wrong with the car. We need to try extra hard to make him look bad? Nah

Obviously there was a setup issue with the car this weekend, got off to a bad start and we never recovered. Maybe something else inside the car but it's not like we can afford to make things worse than they even are so this sounds like some whacky conspiracy and i very much doubt Seb was going for that angle.

One thing they need to do is throw the car in the bin and just forget the next 18 months. Can we please not use the SF1000 as a base to move forwards because we won't make great strides.

[Nick Singer]

7711

[JPZ]

Seriously, what happened to Vettel?

The last few years have been a complete train-wreck for him, a nightmare.

[tifosi1993]

Seriously, what happened to Vettel?

The last few years have been a complete train-wreck for him, a nightmare.

Nothing happened, he has always been like this. Those Newey designed rocket ships, and having a weak teammate like Webber, it was pretty easy for him. With Raikkonen he also had easier times when he joined Ferrari, but when Leclerc joined, he could no longer hide behind another 35+ years old teammates.

Lately he has been awfully friendly with the media, telling everyone how awful his car is. Now he's saying there is "something" going on with his car.

The sooner this guy leaves Ferrari the better.

[tifosi1993]

http://www.thescuderia.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7711&stc=1

https://youtu.be/JDJL5FYPFQ4

[F2008]

He is a good driver but probably a bit overrated, the facts are that he only beat Bourdais (no prior F1 experience), Webber (aged 32-37) and Raikkonen (aged 35-39). The latter was pretty much destroyed by Alonso the year before.

[chinmay]

Seriously, what happened to Vettel?

The last few years have been a complete train-wreck for him, a nightmare.

Last year was the only bad year for him. From 2015 to 2018, it was pretty good and it was once again good in the latter half of last year.

[SS454]

Vettel few minutes ago on Sky Germany:

"I didn't feel comfortable at all. There must be something. Can't be that we made a step back overnight."

So now he is implying that Ferrari is sabotaging his car. What an awful driver.

I don't think he was implying Ferrari are sabotaging his car. It could be he was just saying his car had a problem that needs to be addressed. The car had pedal box problems, which is strange and should have been an easy fix.

Could it be because Skysport immediately after that interview were the ones to suggest it was Ferrari favoring one car over the other, that now you think it's what Sebastien was implying?

Seb has always liked to look at the data and understand the engineering side of things, so I am sure he will be looking at the data traces and load cell data and compare his car with Leclerc's. At this point, he's just suggesting "something" is wrong for the car to be that undriveable, and that he plans to investigate it.

[Liscia]

The money's already in Vettel's bank and he seems to only really be trying stuff in practice sessions but come Sundays, well he's a Sunday driver?
He completely unravelled last year, hasn't recovered, isn't trying much this year but then with the uninspiring car he's driving it's understandable.
I can't wait for this season to end and expect we'll see nothing more of the old Vettel but look forward only to watching Leclerc continue to surprise us.
I have low expectations for next year but hope that Sainz settles in well and Leclerc doesn't lose patience and won't stop giving his all.

[ferrari1.8t]

Seriously, what happened to Vettel?

The last few years have been a complete train-wreck for him, a nightmare.

Maybe he was the one who brought our engine secrets to Mercedes, hoping for a seat in return Lol. Binotto found out and sacked him. It’s a stretch, but who knows these days :rotfl

[Stormsearcher]

Maybe he was the one who brought our engine secrets to Mercedes, hoping for a seat in return Lol. Binotto found out and sacked him. It’s a stretch, but who knows these days :rotfl

hahahaha.. you are on fire with conspiracy theories today arent ya! But anything is possible.

Give us more. :-D

[Brembo]

Maybe he was the one who brought our engine secrets to Mercedes, hoping for a seat in return Lol. Binotto found out and sacked him. It’s a stretch, but who knows these days :rotfl

According to Todt , Michael already took care of that. Toto clearly says that Michael's input is 100% why Merc is where they are. Who could ask for anything more?

[nani_s23]

Vettel : "I couldn't challenge anyone."
"My confidence level is quite low at the moment, because I’m struggling to get a feel for the car and every time I try and push, I lose the car."

[JPZ]

Last year was the only bad year for him. From 2015 to 2018, it was pretty good and it was once again good in the latter half of last year.

2018 was when it started unravelling. 3 mistakes in a row at one point.

Then in 2019 he gets beaten by a rookie in his second year in F1.

And the way this year is going, it's looking like it could be even worse.

[Brembo]

The "Something wrong" is the driver. I can't believe he's not claiming to be asymptomatic so he can stay home and still get paid. Seb is a great former F-1 driver from an early age. He just hung around too long. I wonder why?

[Stormsearcher]

I can't believe he's not claiming to be asymptomatic so he can stay home and still get paid.
:rotfl:rotfl

[Arcana]

According to Todt , Michael already took care of that. Toto clearly says that Michael's input is 100% why Merc is where they are. Who could ask for anything more?

Who's Michael ? Some V6 Turbo Hybrid Engine guru that nobody heard of ?




The "Something wrong" is the driver. I can't believe he's not claiming to be asymptomatic so he can stay home and still get paid. Seb is a great former F-1 driver from an early age. He just hung around too long. I wonder why?

How about the intercooler issue that hindered him in practice and left no time to properly setup the car ? Still the driver's fault ? How about the loose things left in his car ? Still his fault ? Oh wait, he should have built his own car, right ? The team is never at fault, they receive extra money and they build rockets that can wipe the floor with Mercedes, but they are out of luck because they can't find someone to race in that Ferrari and beat Lewis that recently won on 3 wheels.

[Brembo]

Charles got on the podium with his Ferrari made car. The team's fault he got there for sure along with him driving great. Toto used the name Michael Schumacher as to who put Merc where they are. I'm sure everyone here has heard of him! Down force !!! That's what Charles needs!!

[Silent Bob]

Who's Michael ? Some V6 Turbo Hybrid Engine guru that nobody heard of ?





How about the intercooler issue that hindered him in practice and left no time to properly setup the car ? Still the driver's fault ? How about the loose things left in his car ? Still his fault ? Oh wait, he should have built his own car, right ? The team is never at fault, they receive extra money and they build rockets that can wipe the floor with Mercedes, but they are out of luck because they can't find someone to race in that Ferrari and beat Lewis that recently won on 3 wheels.


For sure the missed practice might have hurt, but be honest, Vettel has been having issues driving this car. I figured the increase in downforce would help, but doesn't look like it. Leclerc has the ability to drive the car in low downforce mode and make things work. vettel not so much. We'll have to see this race if he improves. He has lots of data now to set up his car better.

[Brembo]

Who's Michael ? Some V6 Turbo Hybrid Engine guru that nobody heard of ?





How about the intercooler issue that hindered him in practice and left no time to properly setup the car ? Still the driver's fault ? How about the loose things left in his car ? Still his fault ? Oh wait, he should have built his own car, right ? The team is never at fault, they receive extra money and they build rockets that can wipe the floor with Mercedes, but they are out of luck because they can't find someone to race in that Ferrari and beat Lewis that recently won on 3 wheels.

Binotto inter cooled the team letting them know it's 2023 when they need to start getting things win ready. They have two years to get the car ready. The pay will still be there though for everyone. Seb is for sure a better driver now than Lewis or Charles or even Max. It's the car that has him sliding around the track, not him. Charles & his Ferrari made the podium !! There's hope !! Go Seb !!

[wisepie]

Oh dear, Seb's car seems to have sabotaged in FP2 today, now with a possible engine failure, what on earth does that mean for the rest of our Ferrari-powered drivers, not only slow but self-detonating too.:-s

[tifosi1993]

Oh dear, Seb's car seems to have sabotaged in FP2 today, now with a possible engine failure, what on earth does that mean for the rest of our Ferrari-powered drivers, not only slow but self-detonating too.:-s

You can't be serious....with fans like these, Ferrari doesn't need any enemies.

[totox]

You can't be serious....with fans like these, Ferrari doesn't need any enemies.

I guess you have vettel under your skin so badly that one can wonder if he did you something personal to you. FFS. Let's see next year when sainz prove what he can do in the spectacular car we have. You are so blinded with vettel that you can not assume and understand the events that are happening in the team and the car development. You are the worst kind of Ferrari supporter over there. The toxic one.

[tifosi1993]

I guess you have vettel under your skin so badly that one can wonder if he did you something personal to you. FFS. Let's see next year when sainz prove what he can do in the spectacular car we have. You are so blinded with vettel that you can not assume and understand the events that are happening in the team and the car development. You are the worst kind of Ferrari supporter over there. The toxic one.

:rotfl:paranoid

[totox]

:rotfl:paranoid

yeah all that you want, but you are the one that started this nonsense witch-hunting thread for something pretty silly. i guess you're obssesed with vettel. Reading between lines something that never existed or was tell LOL. Look yourself in the mirror if you are searching for someone paranoid.

[tifosi1993]

yeah all that you want, but you are the one that started this nonsense witch-hunting thread for something pretty silly. i guess you're obssesed with vettel. Reading between lines something that never existed or was tell LOL. Look yourself in the mirror if you are searching for someone paranoid.

Is Vettel your sugar daddy or something? It seems weird to get this worked up. Does he pay you or something?

And not sure why you have included Sainz, or more importantly, why you have to butt in, I wasn't replying to you anyway. Coming out of nowhere and speaking about "next year", "when Sainz prove", "you are so blinded", yeah you are really paranoid. Nothing is forcing you to read my posts, there is a ignore list, use it instead of getting your blood pressure high.

[totox]

Is Vettel your sugar daddy or something? It seems weird to get this worked up. Does he pay you or something?

And not sure why you have included Sainz, or more importantly, why you have to butt in, I wasn't replying to you anyway. Coming out of nowhere and speaking about "next year", "when Sainz prove", "you are so blinded", yeah you are really paranoid. Nothing is forcing you to read my posts, there is a ignore list, use it instead of getting your blood pressure high.

Don't play the naive card here. We all know the kind of post you keep repeating in every thred of the forum. However, it's good advise to ignore you, but is a pitty that will not improve the quality of the forum against yours intense, brainless and toxic/provocative coments. They are all the same, guess is the obsession. Bye!

[tifosi1993]

Don't play the naive card here. We all know the kind of post you keep repeating in every thred of the forum. However, it's good advise to ignore you, but is a pitty that will not improve the quality of the forum against yours intense, brainless and toxic/provocative coments. They are all the same, guess is the obsession. Bye!

Who's this "We"? Not every one here is blind Vettel fanboy. Ever since the likes of you joined this forum, it has gone downhill. Do us a favor, when your idol leaves Ferrari, follow his footsteps leave this forum as well.
And I don't care about your feelings, when Vettel implies that he's getting sabotaged, he's going to get **** from us tifosi. He has never been popular in Italy, and lately has become even more unpopular, with all his media crusade against Ferrari.

Judging by your post, you simply don't contribute anything here. And it's not your safe place though, so go cry somewhere else and bother someone who actually gives a **** about you.

[Brembo]

You can't be serious....with fans like these, Ferrari doesn't need any enemies.

Ferrari's biggest enemy is not any fans, it's Binotto ! He gave the team & drivers off with pay until 2023. He said were gonna lose!!! It can't be that Ferrari can't figure out the tires, down force, and on and on. Charles did a podium anyway in spite of Binotto ! Seb on the other hand has to at least get in his car and drive out the race as far as the car will get him or his mistakes get him. Enzo always said it's HP nothing else is going to make the car a winner. Charles makes the races worth watching ! He really believes he can win. So do I.

[chinmay]

Ferrari's biggest enemy is not any fans, it's Binotto ! He gave the team & drivers off with pay until 2023. He said were gonna lose!!! It can't be that Ferrari can't figure out the tires, down force, and on and on. Charles did a podium anyway in spite of Binotto ! Seb on the other hand has to at least get in his car and drive out the race as far as the car will get him or his mistakes get him. Enzo always said it's HP nothing else is going to make the car a winner. Charles makes the races worth watching ! He really believes he can win. So do I.

Binotto is telling the truth. Car does not have any engine whatsoever. Aero is in shambles, it will take a while before car is anywhere near win(s). It can't happen in 2020 and 2021 because Binotto agreed to engine freeze for the "good" of sport. Car lacks HP and downforce.

[Stormsearcher]

Ferrari's biggest enemy is not any fans, it's Binotto ! He gave the team & drivers off with pay until 2023. He said were gonna lose!!! It can't be that Ferrari can't figure out the tires, down force, and on and on. Charles did a podium anyway in spite of Binotto ! Seb on the other hand has to at least get in his car and drive out the race as far as the car will get him or his mistakes get him. Enzo always said it's HP nothing else is going to make the car a winner. Charles makes the races worth watching ! He really believes he can win. So do I.

Somewhat agree. If the team boss is going public with how defeated we are, what is the drivers motivation? Or the Engineers? We may not be able to win till 2022, but what he said, thats totally deflating to a team's morale IMO.


Charles makes the races worth watching ! He really believes he can win. So do I. :thumb:thumb fully agree!

[tifosi1993]

Ferrari's biggest enemy is not any fans, it's Binotto ! He gave the team & drivers off with pay until 2023. He said were gonna lose!!! It can't be that Ferrari can't figure out the tires, down force, and on and on. Charles did a podium anyway in spite of Binotto ! Seb on the other hand has to at least get in his car and drive out the race as far as the car will get him or his mistakes get him. Enzo always said it's HP nothing else is going to make the car a winner. Charles makes the races worth watching ! He really believes he can win. So do I.

Nah...Binotto is telling like it is, no point at sugarcoating our current predicament. He's also saying that they're doing everything they can to solve the problems and need help from every Ferrari team members.

But the problem is Vettel and his petulant behavior. Look at his radio conversion with Binotto at the last race, he pretty much kept quite,, until his engineer reminded him of radio check (his radio was fine) and only then he answered back. And pretty much every weekend we are hearing from Vettel how awful "his" car is to drive, how "something" must be going on with it. Then he's getting all chummy with the media and rival team bosses.

David croft and like minded people like him have gobbled up the theory that Vettel is driving a "different" car than Leclerc's, of course David Croft will never dare to say something like Ferrari is sabotaging Vettel in public, but the message is quite clear. I think it will be better for all parties, if Vettel simply leaves Ferrari right now. Him being there is doing nothing good for Ferrari, it's only attracting unnecessary problems.

[Stormsearcher]

But the problem is Vettel and his petulant behavior. Look at his radio conversion with Binotto at the last race, he pretty much kept quite,, until his engineer reminded him of radio check (his radio was fine) and only then he answered back. And pretty much every weekend we are hearing from Vettel how awful "his" car is to drive, how "something" must be going on with it. Then he's getting all chummy with the media and rival team bosses.
Yeah. he could have been more professional about it. But why are we even surprised. Hes known for throwing his toys out of the pram when he doesnt get what he wants. Hes even trying the emotional angle by saying he wanted to win with ferrari so he could stop LH from beating Schumis records. :roll


David croft and like minded people like him have gobbled up the theory that Vettel is driving a "different" car than Leclerc's, of course David Croft will never dare to say something like Ferrari is sabotaging Vettel in public, but the message is quite clear. I think it will be better for all parties, if Vettel simply leaves Ferrari right now. Him being there is doing nothing good for Ferrari, it's only attracting unnecessary problems.
maybe they shud get Hulk to replace him for the rest of the season. Am sure hulk would jump at the opportunity.

[bonzo]

Already signed with RP for 2021, replacing
Checo.

[wisepie]

You can't be serious....with fans like these, Ferrari doesn't need any enemies.

Come on tifosi, I will never be an enemy of Ferrari after 50+ years of being a tifoso, it's just painful to see one problem after another fighting against us.:-E

[Super M]

Come on tifosi, I will never be an enemy of Ferrari after 50+ years of being a tifoso, it's just painful to see one problem after another fighting against us.:-E



Can't disagree with you there.....:-)

[chinmay]

Already signed with RP for 2021, replacing
Checo.

Looks like a terrible decision. With the emergence of McLaren and Renault, Racing Point won't be anywhere near top 10 in the coming time. Vettel probably thought he would be fighting for podiums, instead he will be fighting with his old buddy Raikkonen or whoever's in that car next year. Should have taken a sabbatical instead.

[tifosi1993]

Come on tifosi, I will never be an enemy of Ferrari after 50+ years of being a tifoso, it's just painful to see one problem after another fighting against us.:-E

"Sebs car seems to have sabotaged in FP2 today". So my question is, which party sabotaged Vettel's car? Ferrari or someone else?

As I said, you can't be serious with your insinuation that Ferrari is sabotaging Vettel's car.

[ferrari1.8t]

Instead of believing Ferrari are sabotaging Vettels car, why doesn’t anyone place the blame on Vettel. Is it so hard to believe he has checked out and doesn’t care to push? He doesn’t care where the team who booted him out ends in the standings. He is consistently 6-7 tenths down on Leclerc, that’s his fault and not Ferrari’s.

[JHAMMER]

Instead of believing Ferrari are sabotaging Vettels car, why doesn’t anyone place the blame on Vettel. Is it so hard to believe he has checked out and doesn’t care to push? He doesn’t care where the team who booted him out ends in the standings. He is consistently 6-7 tenths down on Leclerc, that’s his fault and not Ferrari’s.

OK OK IT'S ALL VETTEL'S FAULT!

And next year it will be Sainz fault.

And possibly even Leclerc's fault.

[nani_s23]

OK OK IT'S ALL VETTEL'S FAULT!

And next year it will be Sainz fault.

And possibly even Leclerc's fault.

:rotfl that’s how it goes..!!

[Rishu]

Funny, it’s all coming back. I remember when Webber’s RedBull was slow off the line, failing/retiring more frequently than the sister RedBull

[wisepie]

"Sebs car seems to have sabotaged in FP2 today". So my question is, which party sabotaged Vettel's car? Ferrari or someone else?

As I said, you can't be serious with your insinuation that Ferrari is sabotaging Vettel's car.

Once again my sense of humour gets me into trouble, I was being tongue in cheek and perhaps should have said Seb was sabotaging his own car by driving it at snail's pace, although that wouldn't be difficult. After quali today even Charles only managed P8. and the tyre deg was horrendous. By the way, it pays to have a sense of humour when supporting our team, if we don't laugh, we'll definitely be crying until at least 2022.:-s;-)

[Nick Singer]

If the best LEC and VET can do, conspiracy theories aside, is 8th and 12th, then that car is truly a dog.

Ah well, wisepie, Ferrari, Norwich and Bournemouth.. not a great sporting season!

I used to look forward to GP weekends and Saturday football. Not so much now!

[wisepie]

If the best LEC and VET can do, conspiracy theories aside, is 8th and 12th, then that car is truly a dog.

Ah well, wisepie, Ferrari, Norwich and Bournemouth.. not a great sporting season!

I used to look forward to GP weekends and Saturday football. Not so much now!

How right you are, Nick, time for a gallon of cider to forget whatever we have to endure, weekends are just an excuse to get lathered now!:-P

[tifosi1993]

Once again my sense of humour gets me into trouble, I was being tongue in cheek and perhaps should have said Seb was sabotaging his own car by driving it at snail's pace, although that wouldn't be difficult. After quali today even Charles only managed P8. and the tyre deg was horrendous. By the way, it pays to have a sense of humour when supporting our team, if we don't laugh, we'll definitely be crying until at least 2022.:-s;-)

Understood. You are one of the most level headed member here, so it was bit weird seeing something like that from you. That post is more suited for the likes of Chinmay and co.

Yes P8 is not an ideal result, but it wasn't too bad either. It's just everyone has opted for low downforce setup for this weekend, unlike the previous weekend when only Ferrari and Renault had gone for the low downforce setup. And with softer tyres, it has closed up the field a bit. I think race pace-wise, Charles can beat Dani Ric, Stroll, Gasly and Albon. But I'm afraid Hulk and Max, both of them are out of our reach.

[chinmay]

Understood. You are one of the most level headed member here, so it was bit weird seeing something like that from you. That post is more suited for the likes of Chinmay and co.

Yes P8 is not an ideal result, but it wasn't too bad either. It's just everyone has opted for low downforce setup for this weekend, unlike the previous weekend when only Ferrari and Renault had gone for the low downforce setup. And with softer tyres, it has closed up the field a bit. I think race pace-wise, Charles can beat Dani Ric, Stroll, Gasly and Albon. But I'm afraid Hulk and Max, both of them are out of our reach.

lmao the one who started some imaginary sabotage thread is talking about being level headed. :rotfl

[tifosi1993]

lmao the one who started some imaginary sabotage thread is talking about being level headed. :rotfl

So you don't believe your idol's own words!? What kind of fanboy are you!? Vettel is already having bad time, and now his biggest cheerleader is refusing to believe him, sad!

Hey, it's not like I've posted something fake here, it was his own words. And every race weekend he is reminding us what an awful car the "SF1000" is, and it has already convinced SkyF1 that Vettel is driving a different car than Charles.

[aroutis]

Instead of believing Ferrari are sabotaging Vettels car, why doesn’t anyone place the blame on Vettel. Is it so hard to believe he has checked out and doesn’t care to push? He doesn’t care where the team who booted him out ends in the standings. He is consistently 6-7 tenths down on Leclerc, that’s his fault and not Ferrari’s.Exactly that. Sometimes the simplest explanation is also the right one.

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

[nani_s23]

Vettel: To go faster I need more grip. I have to say compliments to my engineering group: We tried lots of things, I felt a bit better in the car this weekend but if you look at the stopwatch it seems to make no difference.

[tifosi1993]

Vettel: To go faster I need more grip. I have to say compliments to my engineering group: We tried lots of things, I felt a bit better in the car this weekend but if you look at the stopwatch it seems to make no difference.

aka "My lack of adaptability"

[wisepie]

Understood. You are one of the most level headed member here, so it was bit weird seeing something like that from you. That post is more suited for the likes of Chinmay and co.

Yes P8 is not an ideal result, but it wasn't too bad either. It's just everyone has opted for low downforce setup for this weekend, unlike the previous weekend when only Ferrari and Renault had gone for the low downforce setup. And with softer tyres, it has closed up the field a bit. I think race pace-wise, Charles can beat Dani Ric, Stroll, Gasly and Albon. But I'm afraid Hulk and Max, both of them are out of our reach.

I'll take that as a compliment, tifosi, and maybe we should begin to take some of your strong views in a lighter context! I'm really against throwing insults at others who may have a different opinion and just want to support my team, come what may. But that won't stop me having a serious rant when called for! Just hope for some points today and no bumper-cars.;-)

[Nick Singer]

I have to say, motorsport forums tend to be absolute pits of bias, delusion and unreal expectation. I vaguely recall the Autosport forum was utterly ghastly, overrun by Lewis fanboys, Schuey/ Ferrari haters and anoraks.*

I'm on Twitter and, as you can avoid (block) people there who are truly awful and protect your own tweets, it's probably less barmy than most F1 sites!

* Anorak (noun): Chap in the Kentagon bar at Brands Hatch circa 1976/7(?) who tells you in all seriousness that Tyrrell gave him a set of used front wheels and tyres off a P34 and he put them on his Mini...

Happy Sunday! LEC on the podium anyone?

[458 Italia]

I have to say, motorsport forums tend to be absolute pits of bias, delusion and unreal expectation. I vaguely recall the Autosport forum was utterly ghastly, overrun by Lewis fanboys, Schuey/ Ferrari haters and anoraks.*

I'm on Twitter and, as you can avoid (block) people there who are truly awful and protect your own tweets, it's probably less barmy than most F1 sites!

* Anorak (noun): Chap in the Kentagon bar at Brands Hatch circa 1976/7(?) who tells you in all seriousness that Tyrrell gave him a set of used front wheels and tyres off a P34 and he put them on his Mini...

Happy Sunday! LEC on the podium anyone?

Yes quite, I stopped reading the likes of Autosport because they absolutely hate Ferrari and hated Schumacher and would say how boring it was that Ferrari and MSC were winning most of the time. I imagine those places are even worse now since hamilton started driving and I bet there's not even a peep out of them saying F1 is boring in it's current shambolic state.

[Redfive]

I have to say, motorsport forums tend to be absolute pits of bias, delusion and unreal expectation. I vaguely recall the Autosport forum was utterly ghastly, overrun by Lewis fanboys, Schuey/ Ferrari haters and anoraks.*

I'm on Twitter and, as you can avoid (block) people there who are truly awful and protect your own tweets, it's probably less barmy than most F1 sites!

* Anorak (noun): Chap in the Kentagon bar at Brands Hatch circa 1976/7(?) who tells you in all seriousness that Tyrrell gave him a set of used front wheels and tyres off a P34 and he put them on his Mini...

Happy Sunday! LEC on the podium anyone?

You're so right with the Autosport forum, I used to be a member and post frequently but I stopped some time ago, the Hamilton bias there is utterly shocking and even some of the mods are fanatical Lewis fans. Best to avoid that place 100%.

I see people online saying Seb is being sabotaged, but I really don't believe in it, why would Ferrari throw good points away, for what purpose? no, that's just silly.

[SilverSpeed]

sigh...

[Vettel165]

Please Seb retire with kimi. He had his time. Forza what ever awaits for him.

Hahah made my day.
https://i.postimg.cc/6qQNc35c/received-597266727655868.jpg (https://postimg.cc/KkCVvmT3)

[Stingray]

.... Vettel is becoming a disgrace. Losing the car again, his now regular spin, and then blaming the team publically ...... please Ferrari, terminate this whole ordeal asap!

[tifosi1993]

I have said it last year and I will keep on saying, Vettel is a huge liability for Ferrari. Throwing toys out of his pram every weekend, bad mouthing the team on the radio, spinning and blaming the car for it...it will be a lot better for all the parties, if Vettel simply leaves right now.

[jgonzalesm6]

I have said it last year and I will keep on saying, Vettel is a huge liability for Ferrari. Throwing toys out of his pram every weekend, bad mouthing the team on the radio, spinning and blaming the car for it...it will be a lot better for all the parties, if Vettel simply leaves right now.

The divorce between Seb and Ferrari is going to get nasty. Seb spun during the race(70th Anniv. Silverstone) and then calls out the team for making a mistake.

[Stormsearcher]

The divorce between Seb and Ferrari is going to get nasty. Seb spun during the race(70th Anniv. Silverstone) and then calls out the team for making a mistake.

yup. the gloves have come off Seb, and soon Ferrari will start responding in kind. Its gonna get ugly.

[Brembo]

Give a boxer the winning pay prize before the fight! Same goes for a F-1 driver . 4 WDCs , millions in the bank, God bless him.

[JHAMMER]

yup. the gloves have come off Seb, and soon Ferrari will start responding in kind. Its gonna get ugly.

What are they going to do give him a even crappier car than they have?

[paolo lalli]

Vetal is just stirring the pot at Ferraris expense.All ties should be severed immediately it's just to unmanageable and toxic.I blame Ferrari for this totally they should have paid seb out at the beginning of the year.Surely Ferrari had some forsite that this would have been the outcome the result is that it is unhealthy for Ferrari vettal and Charles.Charles can now see first hand what happens when a driver looses his way with Ferrari this must be sitting in his mind set, obviously seb has little respect for himself and is destroying his own legacy piece by piece.A comprimised settlement is the answer.Then seb can relax and move forward in his new direction with what dignity remains Ferrari will not help him they are pushing him to fall on his sword and it's become an ugly battle of wills.

[Stormsearcher]

What are they going to do give him a even crappier car than they have?
You do realise thats not the only way they can get to him.
In the first place, he has been FIRED from the team. A 4 time champ! In favour of a near rookie. That itself is an embarrassing situation. Am sure there are more political ways in which they can make it miserable for him.
Point is, he wont benefit one bit by trying to drag the team down. Sure, they will face some amt of backlash by fans and parts of the media, but Ferrari is too big to be affected by one drivers rants. So in the end, the team may look ruthless on its drivers, but vettel will end up as a much sorrier figure.

[Kingdom Hearts]

You do realise thats not the only way they can get to him.
In the first place, he has been FIRED from the team.


Are you sure? I think the just didn't want to renew his contract that was ending at the end of this season.

[FerrariF60]

Are you sure? I think the just didn't want to renew his contract that was ending at the end of this season.

Exactly, they finally realized he’s not wort the 40 mil a year he’s being paid at the return of mediocre results...
And frankly I don’t blame his contract has not been renewed....he’s such an overrated driver

[ferrari1.8t]

They should find a way to terminate his contract early. No sense in this partnership going any further....

[jgonzalesm6]

Are you sure? I think the just didn't want to renew his contract that was ending at the end of this season.

When Seb said it isn't about the money..........it's about the money!!

[jgonzalesm6]

They should find a way to terminate his contract early. No sense in this partnership going any further....

That would be ideal but then:

1.) Who would you put in Seb's place at time of letting Seb go?

2.) Ferrari would have to pay out the remaining salary IF Ferrari let's Seb go in an instant.

3.) Then Ferrari would have to pay an additional salary to X driver.......that's IF Ferrari can fill in a driver that fast.

[ferrari1.8t]

That would be ideal but then:

1.) Who would you put in Seb's place at time of letting Seb go?

2.) Ferrari would have to pay out the remaining salary IF Ferrari let's Seb go in an instant.

3.) Then Ferrari would have to pay an additional salary to X driver.......that's IF Ferrari can fill in a driver that fast.

1. We have test drivers like Pascal Wehrlein, or they could give some juniors from the Academy a go.
2. I’m sure Ferrari could lawyer up and find a clause, performance related to terminate early. I’m sure all F1 contracts are full of escape clauses that protect both parties.
3. If they already work for us, salary wouldn’t be an issue.

Point being, there is always a way to make something work. This relationship is clearly done and both parties need to go their separate ways in a hurry. Just my opinion.

[Schumiklub]

If Vettel doesn’t find a ride for next season it will be a season without a German driver on the grid. When was the last time this happened? Any history buffs here?


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[Stormsearcher]

1. We have test drivers like Pascal Wehrlein, or they could give some juniors from the Academy a go.
2. I’m sure Ferrari could lawyer up and find a clause, performance related to terminate early. I’m sure all F1 contracts are full of escape clauses that protect both parties.
3. If they already work for us, salary wouldn’t be an issue.

Point being, there is always a way to make something work. This relationship is clearly done and both parties need to go their separate ways in a hurry. Just my opinion.

There must be a performance clause which says he needs to get more or equal or at least half the points earned by the sister car. Sounds reasonable. Didnt Seb use something similar to get out of RBR?

[Vettel165]

Yeah the sooner Seb leaves this team the better. It would be better for both parties to have a fresh start.

Charles is the future for Ferrari, Seb the past. As was Kimi the past when Seb came in 2015.

[FerrariF60]

So apparently sebs getting a new chassis in Spain, ferrari says they found some issues with his current chassis in Silverstine after the race..

So Seb was right all along that there may be something wrong with his car....sebs fans must be delighted..sit back relax, get your popcorn ready, sebs gonna start outperforming Charles now.

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/730387/Vettel_gets_new_chassis_in_Spain_due_to_later_disc overed_error/

[Stingray]

So apparently sebs getting a new chassis in Spain, ferrari says they found some issues with his current chassis in Silverstine after the race..

So Seb was right all along that there may be something wrong with his car....sebs fans must be delighted..sit back relax, get your popcorn ready, sebs gonna start outperforming Charles now.

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/730387/Vettel_gets_new_chassis_in_Spain_due_to_later_disc overed_error/


The chassis must have been damaged for a few years then?! He has been spinning around for a while now ....... Problem is with Seb ...... this is Ferrari's last act before sacking him.

[tifosi1993]

Nah...Ferrari probably sabotaging him even during his Red Bull days. That's why Mclaren dubbed him as the "crash kid" back in 2010.

Also it is strange, that you'd pay a driver 40 millions but then sabotage him during races. Poor Vettel, the whole world is against him, I hope he finds some solace with his millions of dollars paycheck.

[nani_s23]

So apparently sebs getting a new chassis in Spain, ferrari says they found some issues with his current chassis in Silverstine after the race..

So Seb was right all along that there may be something wrong with his car....sebs fans must be delighted..sit back relax, get your popcorn ready, sebs gonna start outperforming Charles now.

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/730387/Vettel_gets_new_chassis_in_Spain_due_to_later_disc overed_error/

:rotfl

[Silent Bob]

It was a minor fault that probably didn't cause any significant performance loss. But if it's psychological, and it gives him confidence, then sure why not. Ferrari can use the points and he might as well start earning his keep. But I think it's probably a forgone conclusion that he's in a supporting role right now.

[FerrariF60]

It was a minor fault that probably didn't cause any significant performance loss. But if it's psychological, and it gives him confidence, then sure why not. Ferrari can use the points and he might as well start earning his keep. But I think it's probably a forgone conclusion that he's in a supporting role right now.

he's %%$##$ useless....he should make way for Nico the HULK, early b4 his contract is up....

[Rishu]

It was a minor fault that probably didn't cause any significant performance loss. But if it's psychological, and it gives him confidence, then sure why not. Ferrari can use the points and he might as well start earning his keep. But I think it's probably a forgone conclusion that he's in a supporting role right now.

Agree. Simone Resta said it should not have made a big difference, but if it gives Seb some confidence then why not?

[Brembo]

Agree. Simone Resta said it should not have made a big difference, but if it gives Seb some confidence then why not?

Someone From Ferrari , not just Max has to at least slow Lewis down. Confidence, chassis , tires ,down force! Whatever it takes. Merc vs. Honda ?

[JHAMMER]

he's %%$##$ useless....he should make way for Nico the HULK, early b4 his contract is up....

I would say the team as a whole has been pretty useless.

Remember it is and always has been about the team Ferrari not about the drivers.

[FerrariF60]

I would say the team as a whole has been pretty useless.

Remember it is and always has been about the team Ferrari not about the drivers.

Yes I agree with you in regards that the team has been useless by not providing our drivers with a race winning car....but when your teammate is outperforming you race weekend after race weekend, and this is not just this year, last year as well, then I would call that driver (Seb) mediocre...

[Brembo]

Remember it is and always has been about the team Ferrari not about the drivers.

You are joking!!!:rotfl For years this was and at times still is a Michael forum. Downplaying the team and the car, it was all the driver!!

[aroutis]

So apparently sebs getting a new chassis in Spain, ferrari says they found some issues with his current chassis in Silverstine after the race..

So Seb was right all along that there may be something wrong with his car....sebs fans must be delighted..sit back relax, get your popcorn ready, sebs gonna start outperforming Charles now.

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/730387/Vettel_gets_new_chassis_in_Spain_due_to_later_disc overed_error/

NO. Ferrari said they found an irregularity on the car but nothing that can sustain what Seb says. HOWEVER they will change his chassis.

[aroutis]

It was a minor fault that probably didn't cause any significant performance loss. But if it's psychological, and it gives him confidence, then sure why not. Ferrari can use the points and he might as well start earning his keep. But I think it's probably a forgone conclusion that he's in a supporting role right now.

Exactly.

[aroutis]

You are joking!!!:rotfl For years this was and at times still is a Michael forum. Downplaying the team and the car, it was all the driver!!

We're talking about same Michael who always said "We lose and win together" ? Right.

[nani_s23]

We're talking about same Michael who always said "We lose and win together" ? Right.

:clap not like Honda driver, who says needs more power or this engine is B***

[Brembo]

We're talking about same Michael who always said "We lose and win together" ? Right.

Right ! The name Michael not Ferrari ran this forum. And according to how Todt used his radio; there was only one driver on the team. So he was that much more in command. Toto can never come close to Todt being the man! He's way to easy on Bottas.

[aroutis]

More like your obsession in how Michael owned Reubens.

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[Brembo]

More like your obsession in how Michael owned Reubens.

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He owned Ferrari; Rubens and the rest of the team came with the deal. The word obsession fits the fans here 100% with Lewis not cleaning out every Shumy title. Todt's "Let Michael pass" will live in infamy! Imagine having it in his contract! If Lewis truly wants to pass all Michael's F-1 doings, he at least has to have one contracts saying he is the #1 driver. One has to admit at just under 5 ft. tall Todt was a big influence at the time. What Seb is going through with something wrong with his car would never have happened to Schumy with Todt in charge. And Seb came to Ferrari as Shumy Jr ! 4 WDCs certainly made him look eligible. A little illegal traction control would be a great help for Seb ! Enjoy the next race !! Stay safe!

[nani_s23]

More like your obsession in how Michael owned Reubens.

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:clap

[aroutis]

He owned Ferrari; Rubens and the rest of the team came with the deal. The word obsession fits the fans here 100% with Lewis not cleaning out every Shumy title. Todt's "Let Michael pass" will live in infamy! Imagine having it in his contract! If Lewis truly wants to pass all Michael's F-1 doings, he at least has to have one contracts saying he is the #1 driver. One has to admit at just under 5 ft. tall Todt was a big influence at the time. What Seb is going through with something wrong with his car would never have happened to Schumy with Todt in charge. And Seb came to Ferrari as Shumy Jr ! 4 WDCs certainly made him look eligible. A little illegal traction control would be a great help for Seb ! Enjoy the next race !! Stay safe!No. He worked for Ferrari and Ferrari benefitted hugely by him and Jean and the rest of the guys.
And really , if reubens was that good as Michael he would beat him as Charles beat Seb but we know that never happened. We saw how charles dominated Seb to the persistence of the team at first because he was better.
So really if you cannot deal with the fact that Michael is GOAT and this is why Reubens was always #2 just seek help cause you aee getting tiresome.

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[Brembo]

I do agree with you. Charles raced and out did Seb, no one could stop him even when they pulled a few pit maneuvers. Seb needed that Michael style contract. I'm glad he didn't have it or we may never have seen the best of Charles. With Todt reminding Rubens on the car phone of the contract, let him pass, how will we fans ever know how good Rubens could have driven against that contract? And this as you say is why Rubens was always #2 driver. Tiresome was the 24/7 hatred for a Ferrari driver here at a Ferrari forum. Twobens, the pensioner, the moaner! :rotfl So really you cannot deal with the fact that without team orders every race like the 2002 Austria beauty, Lewis is for sure the GOAT as of now. Take away that beauty and it's really 90 races not 91 ! Please also know I'm getting help with the fact that Max is on the case big time and Lewis knows it. Binotto should have met with Todt and asked how to Rubenize Charles for Seb's sake . Your posts are truly inspirational ! Never tiresome!

[aroutis]

I do agree with you. Charles raced and out did Seb, no one could stop him even when they pulled a few pit maneuvers. Seb needed that Michael style contract. I'm glad he didn't have it or we may never have seen the best of Charles. With Todt reminding Rubens on the car phone of the contract, let him pass, how will we fans ever know how good Rubens could have driven against that contract? And this as you say is why Rubens was always #2 driver. Tiresome was the 24/7 hatred for a Ferrari driver here at a Ferrari forum. Twobens, the pensioner, the moaner! :rotfl So really you cannot deal with the fact that without team orders every race like the 2002 Austria beauty, Lewis is for sure the GOAT as of now. Take away that beauty and it's really 90 races not 91 ! Please also know I'm getting help with the fact that Max is on the case big time and Lewis knows it. Binotto should have met with Todt and asked how to Rubenize Charles for Seb's sake . Your posts are truly inspirational ! Never tiresome!Nice try.
But of course he had #1 status and that was obvious at the first races when charles was pretty much railroaded from strategy. But Charles' performance was that good that pretty much the whole thing could not stand and that was the beginning of the end for Seb.
And again I am telling you, if Reubens was as good as you claim and no he was not , he would be able to do what charles did. But no he was a really good #2 . Better than Bottas even but still #2. So really give it up, I dunno what your thing is, ya you had Ayrton but after that there was not another great. Deal with it.

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[Brembo]

Nice try.
But of course he had #1 status and that was obvious at the first races when charles was pretty much railroaded from strategy. But Charles' performance was that good that pretty much the whole thing could not stand and that was the beginning of the end for Seb.
And again I am telling you, if Reubens was as good as you claim and no he was not , he would be able to do what charles did. But no he was a really good #2 . Better than Bottas even but still #2. So really give it up, I dunno what your thing is, ya you had Ayrton but after that there was not another great. Deal with it.

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Well we agree again! After Ayrton there was not another great until now with Lewis and his car! I have no choice but to deal with it. And Lewis has at least 3 more years!

[aroutis]

Well we agree again! After Ayrton there was not another great until now with Lewis and his car! I have no choice but to deal with it. And Lewis has at least 3 more years!

Nice try.
Read again. After Ayrton there was not (still is not) another Great BRAZILIAN driver.
Of course there was another GOAT, still is.
His name , Michael Schumacher.

As for Lewis, he's a great driver,but sad as it is, he chose the easy way, drive a missile. So , great driver sure, GOAT? lol

[JHAMMER]

Nice try.
But of course he had #1 status and that was obvious at the first races when charles was pretty much railroaded from strategy. But Charles' performance was that good that pretty much the whole thing could not stand and that was the beginning of the end for Seb.
And again I am telling you, if Reubens was as good as you claim and no he was not , he would be able to do what charles did. But no he was a really good #2 . Better than Bottas even but still #2. So really give it up, I dunno what your thing is, ya you had Ayrton but after that there was not another great. Deal with it.

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Ruebens was a good driver not a great driver.
He drove two of the best cars in F1, Ferrari and Brawn.
He was no way even close to Michael, and he couldn't beat a mediocre Jenson in the best car that year.

[Brembo]

Nice try.
Read again. After Ayrton there was not (still is not) another Great BRAZILIAN driver.
Of course there was another GOAT, still is.
His name , Michael Schumacher.

As for Lewis, he's a great driver,but sad as it is, he chose the easy way, drive a missile. So , great driver sure, GOAT? lol

OK got it. Seb is the German great as of now. It's in the blood not the car!:rotfl He needed to follow his German hero and force team orders in his contract! We fans then would never have know just how much better Charles is than his German team mate if he was forced to let him pass. Indy F-1 2005 , 6 cars finishing the race and still!! Ferrari made Rubens let him pass! Fans threw plastic water bottles at Michael's car knowing what went down. So really it's 89 wins. And I agree again, Lewis should demand a more inferior car than he presently drives . Anyone can win in a great car, That 3 wheel finish was a good sign of his driving ability. A top car takes away from his GOAT achievements. It's almost like cheating WDC wise. :rotfl I still remain with the idea that if your a truly top great driver , why do you need team orders to hold back competition? Lewis has to beat Bottas along with every other [Max] driver. Maybe Schumy feared the Ayrton brasilian blood would come out in Rubens. Better a contract to hold that back. Shumy's record should show as 60/40 the 40 being divided between Ross and Todt's radio ! The Ferrari car was a bomb, it had nothing to do with winning! :rotfl

[Silent Bob]

C'mon Brembo. We know you like Rubens but can you honestly say he would have led Ferrari to dominance if Schumi wasn't there? Even in Brawn he couldn't beat Button and you know nobody says Schumy and Button are on the same level. Rubens was a good guy and a decent driver... much like Irvine and Bottas. Leclerc started as a rookie number 2 to a 4x WDC but quickly proved that he was too good to play second fiddle. Unfortunately Rubens never was able to do that.

[Brembo]

If a driver needs and gets a contract with a written in clause that his team mate has to move over; how can a fan know how good the #2 driver could have been? Charles had no one holding him back and he did what we know, win! So many in the know F-1 writers and former drivers bring up that contract clause, or how else would I know? I'l fight you but..your not allowed to beat me! Driver wise I want Charles to win WDCs @ Ferrari over Seb. He started as #2 and look what happened. No one esp. Binotto knew how to move him over for Seb. Austria 2002 exposed it all . No chance to deny or wonder if it was true. You said perfectly, Rubens was never able throw in "Allowed " to do that. At the time I held the title here as the only Rubens Ferrari fan !! :rotfl Luis now is cursed with his car so he can never be recognized as a great driver! :rotfl Nothing he can do will take away that it's the car not him! :rotfl F-1 is great and beware ! Stroll as was Max, is on the move! I hope he never gets a great car or he too will not be recognized for having any real on his ability; success.

[Silent Bob]

But Binotto did say that Ferrari was backing Seb.... until Leclerc started to out drive him. Pretty sure if Rubens was always faster than Michael he would have earned the right to no.1 like Leclerc did.
Jury still out on Stroll but if he starts to shine I'll say I heard it from you first.

[Brembo]

But Binotto did say that Ferrari was backing Seb.... until Leclerc started to out drive him. Pretty sure if Rubens was always faster than Michael he would have earned the right to no.1 like Leclerc did.
Jury still out on Stroll but if he starts to shine I'll say I heard it from you first.

OK Rubens was at least faster Austria 2002, but his radio caused the car to move over ! :rotfl Always faster could never happen!!! The contract!!

[nani_s23]

Again rubenizing :rotfl...!!
Either it’s Rubenize or ‘max’imum :rotfl everytime

[aroutis]

OK Rubens was at least faster Austria 2002, but his radio caused the car to move over ! :rotfl Always faster could never happen!!! The contract!!Reubens was faster in Austria and so what exactly. Apart from you and mclaren fans noone cared. Ok perhaps other reubens fans too.
Fact remains tho that reubens was nowhere Michael.


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[aroutis]

Untreated obsessions are like that. Not funny business :(


Again rubenizing :rotfl...!!

Either it’s Rubenize or ‘max’imum :rotfl everytime

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[nani_s23]

Untreated obsessions are like that. Not funny business :(



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Hmm pretty much sums it up.

[Brembo]

[QUOTE=aroutis;1031783]Untreated obsessions are like that. Not funny business :(

It's the car winning , not Lewis the driver! Untreated obsession of the highest degree!! That's funny. It's Michael not Lewis every time! Ferrari fans need to know; where is the midjet Todt when we need him? Did he work for Ferrari or just Schumy ? Merc got it made FIA wise.

[aroutis]

White noise...

Doctor has instructed us to answer to you with yes, no matter what you say.
Keep going :)

[stefa]

Nice try.
Read again. After Ayrton there was not (still is not) another Great BRAZILIAN driver.
Of course there was another GOAT, still is.
His name , Michael Schumacher.

As for Lewis, he's a great driver,but sad as it is, he chose the easy way, drive a missile. So , great driver sure, GOAT? lol

I can only :clap

[Brembo]

Fact remains tho that reubens was nowhere Michael.


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I have to respectfully say Thank God.

[aroutis]

I have to respectfully say Thank God.Finally we agree [emoji106]
Therapy seems to work for you !

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[Brembo]

Finally we agree [emoji106]
Therapy seems to work for you !

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Thank you always for your concern. I'm frequenting two therapists, Dr. Guinness and Dr. Malbeck from Argentina. Spokoynoynochi !

[wisepie]

Thank you always for your concern. I'm frequenting two therapists, Dr. Guinness and Dr. Malbeck from Argentina. Spokoynoynochi !

Brembo, at least no-one can accuse you of not having a sense of humour, and like me, you can laugh at yourself!!:-P

[tifosi1993]

Thank you always for your concern. I'm frequenting two therapists, Dr. Guinness and Dr. Malbeck from Argentina. Spokoynoynochi !

:lol :thumb

There is nothing wrong with your support for Rubens. If the Schumacher nostalgists here are allowed to hate on every non german drivers, Alonso and Hamilton, then you are allowed to show your love/admiration for Rubens as well.
And yes, Ferrari's treatment of Rubens were often brutal and sometimes downright cruel, being salty or vocal about it not gonna change those facts.

[Brembo]

I very much appreciate you post. At the time; Rubens actually drove for Ferrari also! :rotfl

[aroutis]

[emoji38] :thumb

There is nothing wrong with your support for Rubens. If the Schumacher nostalgists here are allowed to hate on every non german drivers, Alonso and Hamilton, then you are allowed to show your love/admiration for Rubens as well.
And yes, Ferrari's treatment of Rubens were often brutal and sometimes downright cruel, being salty or vocal about it not gonna change those facts.That is the thing, the so called Schumacher fans (btw if you are referring to me I am not one of them) don't bother with other drivers let alone hate with them
However it is getting annoying to see someone to hate to this extent to the team and Michael. Simple at that.

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[Silent Bob]

That is the thing, the so called Schumacher fans (btw if you are referring to me I am not one of them) don't bother with other drivers let alone hate with them
However it is getting annoying to see someone to hate to this extent to the team and Michael. Simple at that.

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I don't think Brembo hates Schumacher or Todt that much. I think Todt even cancelled the restraining order last year.

[tifosi1993]

That is the thing, the so called Schumacher fans (btw if you are referring to me I am not one of them) don't bother with other drivers let alone hate with them
However it is getting annoying to see someone to hate to this extent to the team and Michael. Simple at that.

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Nope, wasn't referring to you.

And as I have already said, there's nothing to be gained by being angry with Ferrari-Rubens relationship. That chapter has been closed for 15 years, and it will never ever be open again . So what's point dwelling on it?

Brembo likes Max, which is again understandable, since Max is definitely one of a kind. He also likes Charles. So focus on the present, rather than being compulsive about the past.

[aroutis]

I agree. It has been 15 years...

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[Brembo]

If finishing any of the next 3 races; Merc is in a 1,2 finish and Bottas is in 1st but team ordered to let Lewis pass knowing as we all do the points are the same WCC wise; Lewis will then not be the true record breaker or even the WDC for 2020. Team orders , not the great car; would and should be put in parenthesis as how Lewis won or broke a record. Bottas and Wolf both say over and over, that's not the case. Bottas himself says he's not being held back and really believes he has a shot! I might add; with Max's help !! Mass confusion up front next races and Charles in a car that can hold up in one piece may well pass everyone to the flag !!!! Or even Seb !!

[JPZ]

If finishing any of the next 3 races; Merc is in a 1,2 finish and Bottas is in 1st but team ordered to let Lewis pass knowing as we all do the points are the same WCC wise; Lewis will then not be the true record breaker or even the WDC for 2020. Team orders , not the great car; would and should be put in parenthesis as how Lewis won or broke a record. Bottas and Wolf both say over and over, that's not the case. Bottas himself says he's not being held back and really believes he has a shot! I might add; with Max's help !! Mass confusion up front next races and Charles in a car that can hold up in one piece may well pass everyone to the flag !!!! Or even Seb !!

So far Bottas has shown he’s not on the same level as Hamilton, Alonso, Verstappen, Leclerc etc, at least consistently, he does have some great races though. Rosberg would probably also have easily beat him over a season.

[Brembo]

So far Bottas has shown he’s not on the same level as Hamilton, Alonso, Verstappen, Leclerc etc, at least consistently, he does have some great races though. Rosberg would probably also have easily beat him over a season.

Bottas got on the podium every race this season so far except for 1 race [ Brit} including a win 1st race. That seems quite consistent . Leclerc with his car is not up there as much as I wish he was. Max and Bottas seem pretty much equal as far as giving Lewis a run for 1st place if he is not on pole. The races are great as far as starting laps and last 3 . That's better than no races for sure! Most F-1 writers in the know are already saying Bottas lost any chance of WDC. So F-1 is actually a event for who wins 2nd place, unless R Bull Honda is for real.

[nani_s23]

Vettel smiling when Kai Ebel (RTL) told him the Top 3 of AWS Fastest Driver Of All Time ranking: "Complete nonsense, because Michael was the very fastest. We all know that, don't we?"

This answers to one of them here :rotfl

[Brembo]

Vettel smiling when Kai Ebel (RTL) told him the Top 3 of AWS Fastest Driver Of All Time ranking: "Complete nonsense, because Michael was the very fastest. We all know that, don't we?"

This answers to one of them here :rotfl

Well said! After Senna he was the fastest . Now Lewis took over as the very fasted with Max right up there even with their team mates allowed to fight them. The races are great. I feel bad for Charles knowing driver wise he should be in the mix up front.

[aroutis]

So far Bottas has shown he’s not on the same level as Hamilton, Alonso, Verstappen, Leclerc etc, at least consistently, he does have some great races though. Rosberg would probably also have easily beat him over a season.Exactly. Bottas is a 2nd rate driver on a missile.

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

[aroutis]

Bottas got on the podium every race this season so far except for 1 race [ Brit} including a win 1st race. That seems quite consistent . Leclerc with his car is not up there as much as I wish he was. Max and Bottas seem pretty much equal as far as giving Lewis a run for 1st place if he is not on pole. The races are great as far as starting laps and last 3 . That's better than no races for sure! Most F-1 writers in the know are already saying Bottas lost any chance of WDC. So F-1 is actually a event for who wins 2nd place, unless R Bull Honda is for real.Ya , how was it that Lauda said about F1 and monkeys ?

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[aroutis]

Well said! After Senna he was the fastest . Now Lewis took over as the very fasted with Max right up there even with their team mates allowed to fight them. The races are great. I feel bad for Charles knowing driver wise he should be in the mix up front.Ah but no. You can't have it all. According to Seb Michael was THE fastest which includes Senna too.

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[JPZ]

Ya , how was it that Lauda said about F1 and monkeys ?

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The older era drivers were arguably better because the cars were much harder to driver, they had to use a clutch and manual gearboxes and the cars were far less safe, so taking risks were harder too.

[aroutis]

The older era drivers were arguably better because the cars were much harder to driver, they had to use a clutch and manual gearboxes and the cars were far less safe.Basically what he meant is that the new Era cars have become so easy to drive that even a monkey can drive them.
It js not a matter of better vs worse because then we need to discuss matters like what kind of athletes the drivers are (Mansell vs Michael anyone ??) Not to even go to things like reflexes etc which as the eras go and technology evolved the reflexes are getting sharper .
But point is that you get a really good car and a mediocre driver you have better chances for the driver to shine.

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[Brembo]

Seb is driving a new era car a while now, he's German not a monkey at all. Easy new era car to drive and all he still has his problems big time.

[MSC Fan]

Spa just showed that both of our cars are nowhere. Maybe Seb has changed his thoughts now. With that being said, he is getting destroyed by Charles in a way which is similar to Nando and Kimi in 2014. He should really step up his game or his stock will fall so low that even Aston Martin (or RedBull, according to rumours) will slam the door shut on his face, which would be a shame.

[aroutis]

Seb is driving a new era car a while now, he's German not a monkey at all. Easy new era car to drive and all he still has his problems big time.New Era car does not necesdarily equate good car. Do I need to spell everything out to you ? I mean I can but do I really?

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[Brembo]

New Era car does not necesdarily equate good car. Do I need to spell everything out to you ? I mean I can but do I really?

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

Good bad or ugly; all drivers are in new era cars is what I see. Adjust ASAP ! It can't be that only Lewis knows how to drive the new era car that everyone says is the best car ever . Seb was only 3 WDCs away from the big record. He should be the German GOAT. Your spelling is never a problem. It's all Greek to me !:rotfl Check the down force on your SM-N975F !!

[aroutis]

Only a tiny problem
Lewis drives the Mercedes.

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[Brembo]

Only a tiny problem
Lewis drives the Mercedes.

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Very few if any fans here would agree with that. Lewis doesn't drive the Mercedes, it drives itself. A rocket with auto pilot. He just sits in a winning car.

[SilverSpeed]

Don't say that out loud Brembo or the FIA will deny that claim and change the rules again :rotfl.

[aroutis]

Very few if any fans here would agree with that. Lewis doesn't drive the Mercedes, it drives itself. A rocket with auto pilot. He just sits in a winning car.Exactly. It drives itself. Ergo no GOAT.

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[Brembo]

Don't say that out loud Brembo or the FIA will deny that claim and change the rules again :rotfl.

Your right! Every time I see FIA I think Todt. Every time I think Todt I think " Traitor!! " He hates Ferrari and why I'll never know.

[Vettel165]

Yeah something is wrong with the car. :lol

[MSC Fan]

Just to let you guys know, Nico Rosberg called the SF1000 a safety hazard because of its handling on German TV. This is just a new low for us to be honest.

[nani_s23]

Sergio Perez will leave Racing Point at the end of this season/year which means Vettel is probably joining Aston Martin

[Vettel165]

Sergio Perez will leave Racing Point at the end of this season/year which means Vettel is probably joining Aston Martin

Hell yeah love it. Ready to see Seb on the podium again. Pressure of being a ferrari driver will be down to zero a fresh start and Seb will deliver.

[Silent Bob]

Hell yeah love it. Ready to see Seb on the podium again. Pressure of being a ferrari driver will be down to zero a fresh start and Seb will deliver.

Well let's see. Hopefully for his sake he does. If he gets beat by Stroll.. much as Brembo rates him.... it would be devastating for his career. Maybe even his legacy.

[Brembo]

Well let's see. Hopefully for his sake he does. If he gets beat by Stroll.. much as Brembo rates him.... it would be devastating for his career. Maybe even his legacy.

Stroll is a Canadian driver who drives under an American F-1 license ! I wish him the best meaning safe happy driving. Charles is the driver I wish WDCs on as soon as Ferrari makes that seat what Charles thought it would be. Go Canada; USA !!:rotfl

[Tifoso Svedese]

Well, thanks for the 14 wins I suppose. A great shame it ended this way but it was in his head more than anything. Even in 2017 and 2018 the Mercedes was 0.1-0.3 seconds/lap faster all the time in race trim so it takes a special psyche to overcome that. Sadly, Seb wasn't one of those drivers (Michael/Fernando/Ayrton) who can do such things.

[nani_s23]

Well, thanks for the 14 wins I suppose. A great shame it ended this way but it was in his head more than anything. Even in 2017 and 2018 the Mercedes was 0.1-0.3 seconds/lap faster all the time in race trim so it takes a special psyche to overcome that. Sadly, Seb wasn't one of those drivers (Michael/Fernando/Ayrton) who can do such things.

Perfectly said.:thumb

[MSC Fan]

When do we make a Seb tribute thread?

[nani_s23]

When do we make a Seb tribute thread?

I don’t think it’s much needed? :-D as few of them doesn’t like him much.
If no, then before last 5 races would be good.

[MSC Fan]

I don’t think it’s much needed? :-D as few of them doesn’t like him much.
If no, then before last 5 races would be good.

He still was our driver and did the best he could. His efforts should be acknowledged. Let us make one right after Imola.

[nani_s23]

He still was our driver and did the best he could. His efforts should be acknowledged. Let us make one right after Imola.

:thumb

[Brembo]

I'm still wondering when there will be a tribute thread for Rubens? :rotfl OK this was and still is to some degree a Michael Forum much more so than a Ferrari forum, but Rubens put in the time for sure and obeyed the #2 driver rules. Seb on the other hand was forced to be the #2 driver by Charles not obliging by any rules. Seb does merit a tribute thread for his genuine efforts. As the saying goes, "It's the car !"

[Rishu]

I don’t think it’s much needed? :-D as few of them doesn’t like him much.
If no, then before last 5 races would be good.

Like him or not, he has driven 6 seasons for this team, even though he has not delivered to expectations but no one can deny his love for Ferrari since the day he joined

[MSC Fan]

I'm still wondering when there will be a tribute thread for Rubens? :rotfl OK this was and still is to some degree a Michael Forum much more so than a Ferrari forum, but Rubens put in the time for sure and obeyed the #2 driver rules. Seb on the other hand was forced to be the #2 driver by Charles not obliging by any rules. Seb does merit a tribute thread for his genuine efforts. As the saying goes, "It's the car !"

But it's been 15 years since he left? Make one if you wish.

[Brembo]

But it's been 15 years since he left? Make one if you wish.

Thank you for your very polite response.

[MSC Fan]

Thank you for your very polite response.

You're welcome :D

[nani_s23]

Like him or not, he has driven 6 seasons for this team, even though he has not delivered to expectations but no one can deny his love for Ferrari since the day he joined

Great :thumb. I saw a video on YT, it was his first win with Ferrari where he was very emotional (literally with tears in his eyes on the podium). I personally feel, he had that passion to win a title with Ferrari, unfortunately it didn’t happen. All the best for him on his future project.

[nani_s23]

But it's been 15 years since he left? Make one if you wish.

:rotfl

[Alonsomaniac]

Vettel was never "my" driver, but still he did his very best for us, so I'm happy for him.

[nani_s23]

Vettel was never "my" driver, but still he did his very best for us, so I'm happy for him.

Yup same here. I still remember when I used to hate when he was driving for RB, winning in a superior car & Alonso matching him in inferior car.

But when he moved to ferrari, those couple of wins initially made me look he’s the next to get the title back.
He always had that dream with Ferrari, sadly it ended like this. For me he’s below Hamilton, neither great nor ordinary driver.

[Kingdom Hearts]

Vettel was never "my" driver, but still he did his very best for us, so I'm happy for him.

So all the mistakes, the brain fades, the missed opportunities is driving at his best?.

[nani_s23]

Vettel: "I didn't just go to Ferrari to be with Ferrari, I went to win titles and not just races. You could say that I failed. But I got to know people who've helped me a lot, I've made friends for life."

:thumb

[Vettel165]

Vettel was never "my" driver, but still he did his very best for us, so I'm happy for him.

Cheers to that an Alonso fan praising Seb. Hope we will see some battles between 2 of them again next year. They are both awesome.

[FerrariF60]

Cheers to that an Alonso fan praising Seb. Hope we will see some battles between 2 of them again next year. They are both awesome.

and who's gonna come on top of those battles??? surely won't be Seb as he's a master at doing pirouettes now....he'll take that skill over at Tracing Point.....LOLOLOL

[chinmay]

and who's gonna come on top of those battles??? surely won't be Seb as he's a master at doing pirouettes now....he'll take that skill over at Tracing Point.....LOLOLOL

Well both Alonso and Seb have selected tractors to drive next year so we can expect them to fight for 9th and 10th position.

[Vettel165]

Hahah loved that battle from 2014. It was on the hard but fair, both world class drivers pushing each other to the limit.

https://youtu.be/nelCmyii6IY

Also 2011, 2010,2012 they had some cool fights

Respect Seb as he is the third best ferrari driver in history in terms od winning races. Just 1 behind lauda, of course lauda won 2 wdc with ferrari and and absolute legend of the sport.

[SS454]

I predict Vettel to have an outstanding season in 2021. I don't think he will fight for wins or anything, but I suspect he crushes Stroll (shouldn't be that hard), and gives the illusion that he's outdriving the car. He won't have any pressure, the team should develop around his style more than the current Ferrari.

[ferrari1.8t]

Well both Alonso and Seb have selected tractors to drive next year so we can expect them to fight for 9th and 10th position.

Tractors? Have you watched a race this year mate? both Renault and Racing Point/Aston Martin are ahead of Ferrari this year. They have better packages and Aston Martin will have Merc Engines + Parts etc. We are stuck with our tractor until 2022, so I fully expect Alonso and Vettel to be ahead of Charles and Carlos next season.

[FerrariF60]

Tractors? Have you watched a race this year mate? both Renault and Racing Point/Aston Martin are ahead of Ferrari this year. They have better packages and Aston Martin will have Merc Engines + Parts etc. We are stuck with our tractor until 2022, so I fully expect Alonso and Vettel to be ahead of Charles and Carlos next season.

sadly, tracing point WON'T BE GETTING any hand me downs from Merc next year as they are NOT allowed to copy....hmmhmmm borrow Merc 2020 parts and use them in 2021.....so i'm pretty sure they will be quite slow next season....

on the other hand, Ferrari will have a brand new power unit for next year which will make a big difference compared to this year.....and if they fix their aero a bit....anything is possible....not saying they'll be fighting for championships.....but podiums and maybe even the odd win....

im sure they are putting all their eggs in the 2022 basket....

[Vettel165]

https://youtu.be/rT139I0oeL0

:rotfl

The year 2020 in one video.
Made in Maranello.

[PURE PASSION]

https://youtu.be/rT139I0oeL0

:rotfl

The year 2020 in one video.
Made in Maranello.

So you come here making fun with the team, now that your boy signed with another team ????!!!!
And you think that this is ok ????

[crbassassin]

https://youtu.be/rT139I0oeL0

:rotfl

The year 2020 in one video.
Made in Maranello.

Serves him well! Him making his Aston Martin announcement on Ferrari's biggest race in decades is a nasty move.

[nani_s23]

https://youtu.be/rT139I0oeL0

:rotfl

The year 2020 in one video.
Made in Maranello.

I’ve told you many a times. Team first then driver. If you are a ferrari fan, stay. Then admire your driver. That’s fine.
Else please reach out to TP forum. Don’t degrade yourself to much lower.

[nani_s23]

Vettel: "My role in the history of Ferrari is a small light."

There will be a RTL documentary this Sunday before the race about Ferrari's history.

[Vettel165]

Dont you get a joke. Cmon dont be so serious. You see the reality this season why would you deny it.

Thats the main problem Binotto doesnt accept the fact that Ferrari is in crisis. You see whats the problem. Team Management, inferior strategies, bad engine, chassis the never ending circle. Arivabenne was just much much better as team leader. Ferrari was on a up and then they fire him.

[Brembo]

If Ferrari had a car that could have got Seb out of mid field traffic for the most part; he would have done 4 +3 =7. We fans all realize the car is where it's at.

[nani_s23]

#AMuS The Vettel transfer have cost Racing Point/Aston Martin an estimated 40mio$. This sum consists of: paying off Perez, the loss of the sponsors from Mexico and Vettel's salary (Bild reports 15mio€). That shows how important the transfer was for them.

#AMuS Next year Vettel will be racing at least where Racing Point is racing at the moment. Behind two Mercedes and a Red Bull, with a good chance of a podium finish. And he is part of the Mercedes family

[Brembo]

15 mio eu. for most drivers is a small fortune. I'm sure Seb is OK financially @ home. Meanwhile Stroll speaks with high admiration and hopes for both Seb and the team. I still can't get over how Perez got the boot so suddenly and with the team now looking stronger than ever. Does he have any hopes of a team picking him up?

[Silent Bob]

#AMuS The Vettel transfer have cost Racing Point/Aston Martin an estimated 40mio$. This sum consists of: paying off Perez, the loss of the sponsors from Mexico and Vettel's salary (Bild reports 15mio€). That shows how important the transfer was for them.

#AMuS Next year Vettel will be racing at least where Racing Point is racing at the moment. Behind two Mercedes and a Red Bull, with a good chance of a podium finish. And he is part of the Mercedes family


That might be debatable. Renault looking pretty good, McLaren getting Merc engines.... and Ferrari getting new engine. So he might end up exactly where he is now.

[SilverSpeed]

That might be debatable. Renault looking pretty good, McLaren getting Merc engines.... and Ferrari getting new engine. So he might end up exactly where he is now.

Yup, my 2 cents to.

[nani_s23]

Vettel: "I liked Ricciardo a lot, he is a good rival. With Kimi I had no complications & I learned a lot from him on the track. With Charles it is interesting to see him emerge and grow, he has my place now. In the next decade he will be a big one in F1."

[nani_s23]

Vettel on Hamilton's records: "He worked hard to be in that position. He deserves all the successes, but Lewis will never be my hero. That will always be Schumi. I'm happy for Lewis anyway."

Which race do you choose among the 1000s of Ferrari?

Vettel: "One of Schumi, my idol. I'm happy that Mick will drive the 2004 car, I'm jealous..."

[Vettel165]

Vettel on Hamilton's records: "He worked hard to be in that position. He deserves all the successes, but Lewis will never be my hero. That will always be Schumi. I'm happy for Lewis anyway."

Which race do you choose among the 1000s of Ferrari?

Vettel: "One of Schumi, my idol. I'm happy that Mick will drive the 2004 car, I'm jealous..."

Praise to him. :clap

[Tifoso Svedese]

Vettel on Hamilton's records: "He worked hard to be in that position. He deserves all the successes, but Lewis will never be my hero. That will always be Schumi. I'm happy for Lewis anyway."

Which race do you choose among the 1000s of Ferrari?

Vettel: "One of Schumi, my idol. I'm happy that Mick will drive the 2004 car, I'm jealous..."

More rear-end kissing from Vettel on the piece of work. Yikes.

[Infi24r]

Well, thanks for the 14 wins I suppose. A great shame it ended this way but it was in his head more than anything. Even in 2017 and 2018 the Mercedes was 0.1-0.3 seconds/lap faster all the time in race trim so it takes a special psyche to overcome that. Sadly, Seb wasn't one of those drivers (Michael/Fernando/Ayrton) who can do such things.

It does make you wonder what Charles could have done in those cars (at his current level of course) considering he looks consistently faster. Were the Ferrari genuinely down on pace, or just down on drivers?

[Tifoso Svedese]

It does make you wonder what Charles could have done in those cars (at his current level of course) considering he looks consistently faster. Were the Ferrari genuinely down on pace, or just down on drivers?

I think Vettel drove close to the limit just as Hammy did but that those two had similar performance as drivers in those two seasons. That being said, I believe Alonso would've made this time up, since he's a more talented driver in dry conditions than Hammy and in both dry and wet than Seb.

Charles was probably too young to be faster than Seb anyway even in 2018. He figured the Sauber out after a few rounds and then got going, but still had a lot to learn. The 2020 Charles might have won both '17 and '18 though.

[Vettel165]

I think Vettel drove close to the limit just as Hammy did but that those two had similar performance as drivers in those two seasons. That being said, I believe Alonso would've made this time up, since he's a more talented driver in dry conditions than Hammy and in both dry and wet than Seb.

Charles was probably too young to be faster than Seb anyway even in 2018. He figured the Sauber out after a few rounds and then got going, but still had a lot to learn. The 2020 Charles might have won both '17 and '18 though.

Agree drivers come and go, it is what it is. In few years time a new talent will come, hey maybe even Mick Schumacher and become one of the greatest. You never know what will happen. Ether way even Hamiltons luck will run out some day.:lou

[Vettel165]

Seb in the right car was mighty.

I will never forget this pole Lap. Absolutely stunning.
https://youtu.be/vMPL-axI6rs

[chinmay]

It seems that some people are still vastly ignorant of Vettel's peak speed. As everyone knows Vettel hasn't been doing too well since 2019 but when that rare occasion does come that he finds himself happy with the car, suddenly he becomes faster than Leclerc. Last year's Suzuka qualifying is a great example - after the first run in Q3, Vettel immediately came on radio and said that was a good lap guys. And he was 3 tenths faster than Leclerc. Mark Hughes later wrote an article and said that Leclerc was stunned to find Vettel 2 tenths ahead because he (Leclerc) himself had put in such a good lap. That was the Vettel in his window.

2017 was the year when Vettel was in his window all year, that car was a perfect match for him. In dry, he was outqualifying Raikkonen by 5 to 8 tenths. Even this year, there were 2 occasions when Vettel said he was feeling happy and proceeded to beat Leclerc (Styria and Hungary). For sure, the gap wasn't much but what it does tell is that Vettel has more speed to unlock than Leclerc and when he does get it right, he can put in a faster laptime than what Leclerc is capable of.

Leclerc certainly would have done a lot better than Raikkonen in 2018 but he would get absolutely decimated by Vettel in the 2017 Ferrari just like Leclerc is decimating Vettel in 2020 Ferrari.

[Vettel165]

Awesome analysis chinmay.
Loved that Lap.

https://youtu.be/JUbHn7egKHs

Seb brought the team 14 wins, many podiums, and was the only one to give Hamilton a run for money in hibrid era. Hope a new car will be more to his liking next year.

Both Charles and Seb should be praised with Seb driving better than the car was capable in 2015,2017 and also first part of 2018. Leclerc should be praised for 2019 and 2 podiums this year. Both had to drive over the limit and this is why mistakes happen sometimes

[ntukza]

That might be debatable. Renault looking pretty good, McLaren getting Merc engines.... and Ferrari getting new engine. So he might end up exactly where he is now.

:rotfl:rotfl

[ntukza]

It seems that some people are still vastly ignorant of Vettel's peak speed. As everyone knows Vettel hasn't been doing too well since 2019 but when that rare occasion does come that he finds himself happy with the car, suddenly he becomes faster than Leclerc. Last year's Suzuka qualifying is a great example - after the first run in Q3, Vettel immediately came on radio and said that was a good lap guys. And he was 3 tenths faster than Leclerc. Mark Hughes later wrote an article and said that Leclerc was stunned to find Vettel 2 tenths ahead because he (Leclerc) himself had put in such a good lap. That was the Vettel in his window.

2017 was the year when Vettel was in his window all year, that car was a perfect match for him. In dry, he was outqualifying Raikkonen by 5 to 8 tenths. Even this year, there were 2 occasions when Vettel said he was feeling happy and proceeded to beat Leclerc (Styria and Hungary). For sure, the gap wasn't much but what it does tell is that Vettel has more speed to unlock than Leclerc and when he does get it right, he can put in a faster laptime than what Leclerc is capable of.

Leclerc certainly would have done a lot better than Raikkonen in 2018 but he would get absolutely decimated by Vettel in the 2017 Ferrari just like Leclerc is decimating Vettel in 2020 Ferrari.

Nice analysis indeed. Thanks.

[Vettel165]

Or dont forget the monster perfomance by Seb in Brasil 2008. At some point be was running as high as second right behind massa and was slightly quicker than him in a minardi dna Torro Rosso. Also nearly cost Hamilton the world championship and helped Massa and Ferrari.

Or Seb magic in Monza 2008 where he gained more than 5 seconds in few laps to other mclaren driver while having an inferior car with a setup that was based for dry weather with massive top speed and less downforce.

[PURE PASSION]

Well that's your opinion like Vet fans you are. I simply dont agree with you that Vet is faster then Lec in the right car. I will agree that in a car that suits both they will be head to head and race by race. I never will deny him as a top driver and never gone degrade his 4 championships. I was supporting him greatly as our driver and I will always consider him as top 3 of his generation.
It looks like his biggest disadvantage is that when he doesn't have a car exactly as he wants and full competitive to fignt for wins all the time, he brakes emotionally and start making mystakes + he can't take 100 % of a bad car. There is where he loses to other top drivers like Ham ,Alo , ( as we have seeing in the last couple if years)Lec and we dont really have seeing in a bad car Max.
So YES he is great when everything around him is perfect and can (not always) outperform everybody out there ,BUT not the times everything is perfect....!!!!

[nani_s23]

Well that's your opinion like Vet fans you are. I simply dont agree with you that Vet is faster then Lec in the right car. I will agree that in a car that suits both they will be head to head and race by race. I never will deny him as a top driver and never gone degrade his 4 championships. I was supporting him greatly as our driver and I will always consider him as top 3 of his generation.
It looks like his biggest disadvantage is that when he doesn't have a car exactly as he wants and full competitive to fignt for wins all the time, he brakes emotionally and start making mystakes + he can't take 100 % of a bad car. There is where he loses to other top drivers like Ham ,Alo , ( as we have seeing in the last couple if years)Lec and we dont really have seeing in a bad car Max.
So YES he is great when everything around him is perfect and can (not always) outperform everybody out there ,BUT not the times everything is perfect....!!!!

Yup agree with you.

[Tifoso Svedese]

Almost a minute behind his team mate, fair and square, with similar strategies...

[wisepie]

It may have been Seb's 250th F1 start so what a pity he didn't seem capable of a decent result and some points, fair enough that his only pit-stop dropped him right down the field but he even had trouble keeping up with Kimi and GIO. His crash in quali probably didn't help but Seb is still being paid by Ferrari so he owes it to the team to at least bring home some points.

[tifosi1993]

The petulant German is at it again:


But, on the other hand, it is obvious that the other car is much faster. Where I lose time? I have been biting my tongue all year long. Some idiot might never figure it out, but am I a complete idiot? I doubt it

Not you're not idiot Vettel, you are simply not good enough to beat someone like Charles. Sure your 4 WDC's have inflated your ego, but imagine performing so poorly on track that "sabotage" is being used as an explanation. There is no conspiracy, you are simply slower.

Binotto:


"Seb and Charles' cars are identical, no doubt," he told Sky Italia. "I sincerely hope that Sebastian will be able to qualify better in Imola, and show more of what he is capable of during the race."

"Charles is certainly very good, but maybe you expect even more from the second driver.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-rubbishes-talk-vettel-leclerc-same-car/4899207/?ic_source=home-page-widget&ic_medium=widget&ic_campaign=widget-22

[Brembo]

Having won 4 WDCs ; Seb deserves to be proud. So will Charles when he reaches the same WDCs and hopefully a few more! Seb did in fact get into the points last race . His car is also improved. Soon Charles may very well be the one between the two Merc, even ahead!!!

[MSC Fan]

Having won 4 WDCs ; Seb deserves to be proud. So will Charles when he reaches the same WDCs and hopefully a few more! Seb did in fact get into the points last race . His car is also improved. Soon Charles may very well be the one between the two Merc, even ahead!!!

I wish I had the optimism you have ;)

[nani_s23]

Vettel: "Charles and I get the same material. I trust the team and the people in the garage. In the end, the stopwatch reveals the truth. The feeling for the car is just not right. I find it difficult to drive consistently. Sometimes it works for one lap, sometimes not."

Vettel admits that his driving style doesn't necessarily suit the SF1000, but he doesn't want to use that as an excuse. "Then I'll just have to adapt. And I'm having a hard time doing that right now."
"Charles obviously has a different feel for the grip than I do, which is why I don't drive as fast as he does. But I have to concentrate on myself and do my thing."

#AMuS

Some of here show so much hatred :rotfl they can’t put an end. :-)
Oh, he’s leaving 2020. Wonder who will be the next they will comment on... :-)

[Tony]

Vettel: "Charles and I get the same material. I trust the team and the people in the garage. In the end, the stopwatch reveals the truth. The feeling for the car is just not right. I find it difficult to drive consistently. Sometimes it works for one lap, sometimes not."

Vettel admits that his driving style doesn't necessarily suit the SF1000, but he doesn't want to use that as an excuse. "Then I'll just have to adapt. And I'm having a hard time doing that right now."
"Charles obviously has a different feel for the grip than I do, which is why I don't drive as fast as he does. But I have to concentrate on myself and do my thing."

#AMuS

Some of here show so much hatred :rotfl they can’t put an end. :-)
Oh, he’s leaving 2020. Wonder who will be the next they will comment on... :-)

Well he admits the problem is with him, which is the mature thing to do... he's also getting older, so is in the natural decline... being older than him I can say that age doesn't creep up on you slowly, it's more like falling off a cliff... one day you have and the other day.... gone.....

[tifosi1993]

Well he admits the problem is with him, which is the mature thing to do... he's also getting older, so is in the natural decline... being older than him I can say that age doesn't creep up on you slowly, it's more like falling off a cliff... one day you have and the other day.... gone.....

Actually he has changed his tune after the race, when he blamed "his car" for his awful race. In qualifying he did the right thing by admitting his own shortcomings, but he did an 180 after the race and put the blame on the car again.

And you can clearly see his words are generating some buzz inside the F1 circus. He has been complaining the entire year and hinted "something" been wrong with the car. Ferrari gave him a new chassis to help him but still it wasn't enough. The problem is the driver, not the car.

And now Binotto is forced to say publicly that Ferrari is not sabotaging him. Both Lelcerc and Vettel are driving the identical cars.

[MSC Fan]

Actually he has changed his tune after the race, when he blamed "his car" for his awful race. In qualifying he did the right thing by admitting his own shortcomings, but he did an 180 after the race and put the blame on the car again.

And you can clearly see his words are generating some buzz inside the F1 circus. He has been complaining the entire year and hinted "something" being wrong with the car. Ferrari gave him a new chassis to help him but still it wasn't enough. The problem is the driver, not the car.

And now Binotto is forced to say publicly that Ferrari is not sabotaging him. Both Lelcerc and Vettel are driving the identical cars.

Just a week ago, RP's team principal and technical director said the same thing. I think they've asked him to talk rubbish about the team to even further demoralise the team. But instead I'm sure the team would be even more convinced about their decision being the right one. Vettel has scored as many points in 12 races as Leclerc did in the opening round and at the moment, Leclerc has 4 times as many points as him.

[paolo lalli]

The only thing wrong is sebs attitude.Good luck at Aston Martin he is going to need it.I wonder what he will have to say then when there are problems.Vettal should have walked away surely its not going to take another painful season for the penny to finally drop.

[tifosi1993]

Just a week ago, RP's team principal and technical director said the same thing. I think they've asked him to talk rubbish about the team to even further demoralise the team. But instead I'm sure the team would be even more convinced about their decision being the right one. Vettel has scored as many points in 12 races as Leclerc did in the opening round and at the moment, Leclerc has 4 times as many points as him.

Right now we have a Trojan horse inside our garage whose main job is to demoralize the team with rubbish sabotage theories and give the rabid anti-Ferrari media some juicy false gossips. But he is failing on both regard, just like his on track driving.

The thrashing he's receiving from Charles is out-shining all those rubbish conspiracy and sabotage theories. Waste of 40 million for 5 years, hopefully the team have learned their lessons.

But I'm a bit disappointed with Binotto. There was no reason for him to say "both are driving equal machinery". Focus on the job at hand and ignore those waste of time rubbish theories. And let spinnerella talk, because nothing will stop of from getting thrashed by Charles.

[FerrariF60]

The only thing wrong is sebs attitude.Good luck at Aston Martin he is going to need it.I wonder what he will have to say then when there are problems.Vettal should have walked away surely its not going to take another painful season for the penny to finally drop.

You know what would be funny? If even Strol will beat him....I would laugh so hard....lol

[paolo lalli]

Start laughing.

[jgonzalesm6]

You know what would be funny? If even Strol will beat him....I would laugh so hard....lol

It would be an embarrasement and humiliation of the upper most level. Seb should retire from F1 IF that happens. For sure Seb's "sell-buy" date is up.

[Silent Bob]

If Vettel did mean that he thinks the cars are not the same then shame on him. I hope by saying the other car is faster he means Charles is faster and not that the cars aren't equal. But regardless, he's leaving at the end of the year, Ferrari have every right to not reveal all their updates for next year to him. If Charles gets the new parts, then I have no issues with that.

[Brembo]

Seb's 4 WDCs will always be there for him. Being well liked off track by his peers is also a great feat it itself. " It's the car! " Well if Ferrari gave him that; he might have done 7 too. Putting that aside I am grateful to Ferrari for not doing a driver 1,2 on Charles and letting him do what he has done. I wish the best for Seb in the future.

[paolo lalli]

An incompetent tradesman always blames his tools.

[MSC Fan]

If Vettel did mean that he thinks the cars are not the same then shame on him. I hope by saying the other car is faster he means Charles is faster and not that the cars aren't equal. But regardless, he's leaving at the end of the year, Ferrari have every right to not reveal all their updates for next year to him. If Charles gets the new parts, then I have no issues with that.

No one would no better than him that he is actually get outqualified, outraced and outperformed in every regard by Leclerc. At this point, he is just trying to demoralise the team. Daddy Stroll probably asked him to do it.

[tifosi1993]

An incompetent tradesman always blames his tools.

True, but that's not the case here. If Vettel simply said that he can't drive well because of the car, then sure, many would've agreed. Very few drivers can adapt and extract everything out of a bad car, and Vettel isn't one of them.

But saying the "other car" is better and there is "something going on with his car", plus "he's biting his tongue and not a complete idiot", it's pretty clear what exactly Vettel's intensions are and what exactly he's trying to portray with his words.

And his words are clearly getting some traction, otherwise Binotto wouldn't had to say publicly that Ferrari is supplying both driver with equal machinery. And no team will ever give information regarding the upgrades to a driver who's leaving, it's a normal procedure. I'm sure Vettel knows that pretty well, after spending 14 years in this sport.

[Brembo]

[QUOTE=MSC Fan;1036434]No one would no better than him that he is actually get outqualified, outraced and outperformed in every regard by Leclerc.

Just in the last race alone it is obvious that Charles is as good as Lewis at tire maintenance which was a big deal last race temp wise and they were driving "On Ice!' . Coming in 4th with his car was a big deal.

[chinmay]

Just in the last race alone it is obvious that Charles is as good as Lewis at tire maintenance which was a big deal last race temp wise and they were driving "On Ice!' . Coming in 4th with his car was a big deal.

I am surprised that Wolff had to give a 4 tyre car to Hamilton, what a waste of suspension and resources.

[Brembo]

I am surprised that Wolff had to give a 4 tyre car to Hamilton, what a waste of suspension and resources.

Last race finish , 25 seconds; that's mile ahead of the other Merc rocket !

[paolo lalli]

If vettal is hoping for a perfect car next year from Aston Martin he is dreaming but unfortunately they are night mares.My feeling is that his problems will continue. Charles will finish ahead of seb in an ever improving ferrari.

[arcabe]

and some people tend to believe that Ferrari is not giving Seb the same car as Charles...oh boy oh boy.:-??

[KimiBot]

If vettal is hoping for a perfect car next year from Aston Martin he is dreaming but unfortunately they are night mares.My feeling is that his problems will continue. Charles will finish ahead of seb in an ever improving ferrari.

Maybe Aston Martin will build car just the way Seb wants, I think it was something to do with "lack of rear downforce" or something like that ,and thats why those ballerina pirouettes, so maybe he gets car just like RB was when he was successful, we`ll see. I dont know, just a thought.

[KimiBot]

https://www.grandprix.com/news/enzo-ferrari-would-have-treated-vettel-better-says-forghieri.html

"Being the head of the Gestione Sportiva is really difficult, the pressure is enormous, and Ferrari never forgives anything. Binotto must surround himself with the right people for the skills that are obviously lacking."

Following the legality saga of 2019, Ferrari's engine is now conspicuously down on power but Forghieri insists the car is "wrong in other areas too".




Yeah, I am happy that someone else said that too. "the car is "wrong in other areas too""
Everything is wrong in this Binotto era, engine, aero, how to treat drivers and so on, P6 in WCC. Think about that.

[JPZ]

You know what would be funny? If even Strol will beat him....I would laugh so hard....lol

That would be brutal.

[nani_s23]

https://www.grandprix.com/news/enzo-ferrari-would-have-treated-vettel-better-says-forghieri.html

"Being the head of the Gestione Sportiva is really difficult, the pressure is enormous, and Ferrari never forgives anything. Binotto must surround himself with the right people for the skills that are obviously lacking."

Following the legality saga of 2019, Ferrari's engine is now conspicuously down on power but Forghieri insists the car is "wrong in other areas too".




Yeah, I am happy that someone else said that too. "the car is "wrong in other areas too""
Everything is wrong in this Binotto era, engine, aero, how to treat drivers and so on, P6 in WCC. Think about that.

Obviously they won’t talk about him :-) even with that stupid mistake which is agreed for the good of sport.
He’s technical guy, with no managerial experience. He’s very political, only knows how to blackmail the team & get that position which he did with MA.

[tifosi1993]

That would be brutal.

That would be hilarious.

[Silent Bob]

https://www.grandprix.com/news/enzo-ferrari-would-have-treated-vettel-better-says-forghieri.html

"Being the head of the Gestione Sportiva is really difficult, the pressure is enormous, and Ferrari never forgives anything. Binotto must surround himself with the right people for the skills that are obviously lacking."

Following the legality saga of 2019, Ferrari's engine is now conspicuously down on power but Forghieri insists the car is "wrong in other areas too".




Yeah, I am happy that someone else said that too. "the car is "wrong in other areas too""
Everything is wrong in this Binotto era, engine, aero, how to treat drivers and so on, P6 in WCC. Think about that.



I don't agree with him at all. By getting rid of Vettel and bringing in Sainz, it eases the pressure on the team and on Leclerc. I don't think Vettel would have made the team very harmonious by accepting being beaten by Charles every race and what would you pay him? Less than Leclerc? That just makes the whole situation bad. Leclerc proved he can be top guy. Nothing wrong with how Ferrari treated Vettel.

[Brembo]

Very well said. I can't help agree that Seb would never continue accepting the #2 role based on his performance not team orders. And yes; the pay cut would have to be dramatic and less than Charles' pay for sure. Too bad Gio isn't quite ready to take that seat.

[Liscia]

I don't agree with him at all. By getting rid of Vettel and bringing in Sainz, it eases the pressure on the team and on Leclerc. I don't think Vettel would have made the team very harmonious by accepting being beaten by Charles every race and what would you pay him? Less than Leclerc? That just makes the whole situation bad. Leclerc proved he can be top guy. Nothing wrong with how Ferrari treated Vettel.

My take as well

[KimiBot]

I don't agree with him at all. By getting rid of Vettel and bringing in Sainz, it eases the pressure on the team and on Leclerc. I don't think Vettel would have made the team very harmonious by accepting being beaten by Charles every race and what would you pay him? Less than Leclerc? That just makes the whole situation bad. Leclerc proved he can be top guy. Nothing wrong with how Ferrari treated Vettel.

I dont know to what you are answering, was he talking about keeping Seb, I did not see that.

[Silent Bob]

I dont know to what you are answering, was he talking about keeping Seb, I did not see that.


He mentions giving Charles too much responsibility too soon. I figured he was saying they should have kept Vettel for his experience and let Charles develop. But he's shown great maturity and there's no way the team would have had a good atmosphere if Vettel would have kept getting beaten. The only way forward is what Ferrari have done, bring in a younger, calmer driver that can challenge Charles but not create any controversy and can consistently score good points.
And I don't think much could have been done differently. Charles progressed so quickly, how do you tell him to slow down and not be so dominant... he became team leader through performance.

[KimiBot]

He mentions giving Charles too much responsibility too soon. I figured he was saying they should have kept Vettel for his experience and let Charles develop. But he's shown great maturity and there's no way the team would have had a good atmosphere if Vettel would have kept getting beaten. The only way forward is what Ferrari have done, bring in a younger, calmer driver that can challenge Charles but not create any controversy and can consistently score good points.
And I don't think much could have been done differently. Charles progressed so quickly, how do you tell him to slow down and not be so dominant... he became team leader through performance.

I think you are putting words in to his mouth, that is not there. Try to read it again.

-------------------------------------

His most specific criticism, however, is of Binotto's handling of the drivers.

Charles Leclerc, for instance, is "very talented", but also "so young".

"Ferrari should not have charged him with so much responsibility so soon," said Forghieri.

Forghieri also said his old boss, Enzo Ferrari, would probably not approve of the way Sebastian Vettel's looming departure was handled.

"I don't like to upset Enzo Ferrari, because I really knew him and I know that things are attributed to him that he would never have done," he said.

"But I am sure that he would have handled Seb's farewell differently. He deserved a more respectful treatment."

[KimiBot]

Anyways, I am sure, Stroll will build car just the way Seb wants it, Binotto did not do that, so we`ll see if we are going to see that old Seb back next year.

[Silent Bob]

I think you are putting words in to his mouth, that is not there. Try to read it again.

-------------------------------------

His most specific criticism, however, is of Binotto's handling of the drivers.

Charles Leclerc, for instance, is "very talented", but also "so young".

"Ferrari should not have charged him with so much responsibility so soon," said Forghieri.

Forghieri also said his old boss, Enzo Ferrari, would probably not approve of the way Sebastian Vettel's looming departure was handled.

"I don't like to upset Enzo Ferrari, because I really knew him and I know that things are attributed to him that he would never have done," he said.

"But I am sure that he would have handled Seb's farewell differently. He deserved a more respectful treatment."



Well you just quoted him. How else do you not give Leclerc so much responsibility so soon without making him top driver? I don't see any way you can infer what he said other than saying Vettel should have remained to be the experienced driver.

[KimiBot]

Well you just quoted him. How else do you not give Leclerc so much responsibility so soon without making him top driver? I don't see any way you can infer what he said other than saying Vettel should have remained to be the experienced driver.

2 different things.
1. Too young driver to has so much responsibility.
2. Enzo Ferrari, would probably not approve of the way Sebastian Vettel's looming departure was handled
he would have handled Seb's farewell differently. He deserved a more respectful treatment.

Can you see it now.

[Silent Bob]

2 different things.
1. Too young driver to has so much responsibility.
2. Enzo Ferrari, would probably not approve of the way Sebastian Vettel's looming departure was handled
he would have handled Seb's farewell differently. He deserved a more respectful treatment.

Can you see it now.



Ok. Let me rephrase. How do you not give Charles too much responsibility? How do you remove responsibility from your driver when he's outdriving the supposed #1 driver? Do you ask him to do less or drive slower?

In what way was Vettel mistreated? I think by telling him early on in the season that they were not renewing his contract they did him a favour. He didn't have to go through silly negotiations and he had lots of time to look for another drive for next year. Better being honest than dragging him along until all the seats were full. As far as I've seen so far, Vettel has been treated very fairly.

So no, I don't see it any different. And I've read it thoroughly the first time. What am I getting wrong that you're getting right?

[KimiBot]

Okey, last effort.

"His most specific criticism, however, is of Binotto's handling of the drivers."


And he mentions 2 different things that he does not like, how Binotto handles drivers.

You add something that is not there, it is your own thoughts, not his words.

[Brembo]

Seb came to Ferrari as "Schumy Jr.!" He sure looked that good @ R Bull. $50 million was outrageous . I believe all the mid track experience was lost by Seb being on a Sunday drive most every R Bull race. He needed it when he came over to Ferrari. Charles on the other hand was learning and fighting on the track all through F-2 and when he got up to F-1 he continued. I only wish the best for Seb but I'm very happy it's Charles that Ferrari will be with as the driver to take the team back to greatness. Too bad Binotto wasn't going with Seb! Another good guy but in the wrong seat.

[Silent Bob]

Okey, last effort.

"His most specific criticism, however, is of Binotto's handling of the drivers."


And he mentions 2 different things that he does not like, how Binotto handles drivers.

You add something that is not there, it is your own thoughts, not his words.



"Ferrari should not have charged him with so much responsibility so soon," said Forghieri.




Is he implying that Charles should not be team's #1 driver but they should have kept Vettel to ease pressure on Charles? Seems to be what he's saying. How do you remove responsibility from a driver. He said that, I didn't.

But I respect your last effort.

[MSC Fan]

2. Enzo Ferrari, would probably not approve of the way Sebastian Vettel's looming departure was handled
he would have handled Seb's farewell differently. He deserved a more respectful treatment.



To be fair, if it was Enzo Ferrari in charge, he would've fired the hell out of Vettel right after 2018. He doesn't really have the history to be kind with underperformers.

[GustavoTrunci]

To be fair, if it was Enzo Ferrari in charge, he would've fired the hell out of Vettel right after 2018. He doesn't really have the history to be kind with underperformers.

:clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

[tifosi1993]

2 different things.
1. Too young driver to has so much responsibility.
2. Enzo Ferrari, would probably not approve of the way Sebastian Vettel's looming departure was handled
he would have handled Seb's farewell differently. He deserved a more respectful treatment.

Can you see it now.

1. He's 23 years old, so not "too young". I'm 4 years older than him and but it doesn't make me a young dude either.
We have concrete, real world results and data to prove that Charles is more than capable enough of leading Ferrari. Each race weekend he has been proving it. You're putting too much emphasis on Forghiri's words, his words aren't absolute and he ain't some deity either.

2. No one knows how Enzo would've handled Vettel. Who knows, he could've very well kicked Vettel out after 2018. Unless Enzo told you otherwise from his grave.
But one thing is sure with Enzo Ferrari, he wouldn't have tolerated Vettel's snide remarks regarding Ferrari and "his car".

I think we should focus on the reality, especially the race results and events that's been unfolding in front of our eyes. No team ever lined up for Vettel to sign him. He only got the AM seat because of some outside influence (Bernie (https://racingnews365.nl/ecclestone-hielp-vettel-naar-aston-martin-heb-druk-op-stroll-gezet)) and Lawrence Stroll. And it wouldn't have looked good from PR standpoint, if an active 4 time world champion failed to secure a seat for next year. I'm pretty sure Liberty media also played a part, they wanted to keep Vettel in F1 and unfortunately Perez had to get axed for it.

[jgonzalesm6]

1. He's 23 years old, so not "too young". I'm 4 years older than him and but it doesn't make me a young dude either.
We have concrete, real world results and data to prove that Charles is more than capable enough of leading Ferrari. Each race weekend he has been proving it. You're putting too much emphasis on Forghiri's words, his words aren't absolute and he ain't some deity either.

yep


2. No one knows how Enzo would've handled Vettel. Who knows, he could've very well kicked Vettel out after 2018. Unless Enzo told you otherwise from his grave.
But one thing is sure with Enzo Ferrari, he wouldn't have tolerated Vettel's snide remarks regarding Ferrari and "his car".

This is true.


I think we should focus on the reality, especially the race results and events that's been unfolding in front of our eyes. No team ever lined up for Vettel to sign him. He only got the AM seat because of some outside influence (Bernie (https://racingnews365.nl/ecclestone-hielp-vettel-naar-aston-martin-heb-druk-op-stroll-gezet)) and Lawrence Stroll. And it wouldn't have looked good from PR standpoint, if an active 4 time world champion failed to secure a seat for next year. I'm pretty sure Liberty media also played a part, they wanted to keep Vettel in F1 and unfortunately Perez had to get axed for it.

Yep

Another prominent driver getting axed at Racing Point aka Force India. (Ocon) Lance Stroll needs to be a reserve driver(just to save face for Lance and for Lawrence).

Lawrence just made a deal with Aston Martin and Diamler/Mercedes Benz. While I don't care for his son, Lawrence is relentless in his business dealings....a great white shark in business...whether in apparel accesories or in F1 and the automotive world.

I've said this before, you don't become a Billionare by being nice.

[KimiBot]

He did work with Enzo few decades, so I think he knew him.
It was not a question should Seb stay or leave, it was question how he was fired.

"But I am sure that he would have handled Seb's farewell differently. He deserved a more respectful treatment."

I hope that is clear for all now.


About that "too young", I am sure he is thinking about how brutal for example Italian media can be, if things are not going well, and how young kid could handle that pressure, but so far so good.

[KimiBot]

1. He's 23 years old, so not "too young". I'm 4 years older than him and but it doesn't make me a young dude either.
We have concrete, real world results and data to prove that Charles is more than capable enough of leading Ferrari. Each race weekend he has been proving it. You're putting too much emphasis on Forghiri's words, his words aren't absolute and he ain't some deity either.



Few those in a row, and then losing confidence and media starts complains, then we know, but like I said, so far so good.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYNC7s3LgoU

You can read about Forghieri here, if you dont know what he has done.

https://sfcriga.com/mauro-forghieri-the-last-of-the-total-engineers

[Silent Bob]

Few those in a row, and then losing confidence and media starts complains, then we know, but like I said, so far so good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYNC7s3LgoU

You can read about Forghieri here, if you dont know what he has done.

https://sfcriga.com/mauro-forghieri-the-last-of-the-total-engineers



Drivers make mistakes and are sometimes too ambitious. He's made far less mistakes than his older partner.