SpanishGP 2020: Race

[JPMFerrari]

Bad strategy has been the problem for 2-3 years now. The problem, it seems, that they are simply incapable of thinking outside the box. Ferrari's strategy is just all about plan A or B or C or whatever.

Looking at the lap times, had they pitted Charles 3 laps earlier, he would've easily got ahead of the Ocon train. They need to get rid of Rueda asap.

+1. Iñaki Rueda has to go!

[tifosi1993]

It sums up the current state of our team when we manage to get one car home in P7, and that was thanks to the driver we have been criticising endlessly in recent times. Tyre management, fuel saving, engine freezes, strategy being more important than racing and this is the pinnacle of motorsport? We are wasting a brilliant driver in Charles, we've had Alpha Tauris able to pass us without trying, and Binotto is happy to let this be the status quo until 2022 at the earliest. He needs to grow some ***** and fight our corner. Thanks to Seb managing those softs, we scraped though with 6 measly points. What a carry-on.:-E

Ferrari is a midfield team now. But unlike other midfield teams, we are simply incapable of maximizing our chances. And it doesn't help the fact that, we have the worst strategy department on the grid.

[WS6TransAm01]

It's pathetic that you can't seem to accept there is no magic wand and this will not be fixed this year and probably not next, so repeating your same rubbish race after race is not going to change a thing, suck it up or come back when we are winning.

Or support another team as I said before.

Nah. I think I’ll keep posting criticism race after race.

They wouldn’t need a magic wand if they themselves didn’t put themselves in this position in the first place. Ferrari’s current form is not stemming from a single mistake, it’s a systemic and prolonged failure of leadership. Despite years of failure, they continue down the same path. They keep stepping on the same rake over and over again.

At this point, I feel a Walmart assistant manager could do a better job that Benotto. At least at Walmart you might get fired if your don’t do your job.

[paolo lalli]

Keep throwing the trash Ferrari talk i love it.Its a positive way of venting anger and frustration besides they deserve it from all barells.So keep them coming they are good for the soul.Ferrari now the laughing stock in Italy and globally.Pretty soon they will make a comic series about the team.

[PURE PASSION]

Nah. I think I’ll keep posting criticism race after race.

They wouldn’t need a magic wand if they themselves didn’t put themselves in this position in the first place. Ferrari’s current form is not stemming from a single mistake, it’s a systemic and prolonged failure of leadership. Despite years of failure, they continue down the same path. They keep stepping on the same rake over and over again.

At this point, I feel a Walmart assistant manager could do a better job that Benotto. At least at Walmart you might get fired if your don’t do your job.

Don't really know the answer to our problems and there are a lot of times that it has cross my mind that a lot of people has to change.
BUT then I recall that in the last 10 -12 years the team has change a lot of times ,from the president to project leaders every single position. And when we had a new person in a position that didint give us the title (we had plenty of years with poles-wins and eventualy ending 2nd),we demanded again to change. And then I hear from past employees that the "problem " is something like that!!That starting from us tifosi to the team leaders we always demand to have immediat results and this out a lot pressure to the team . The only time the team dominate was when Todt came and ask a blank check and 3-5 years without anyone interfering and asking to bring results earlier. I know that now we are a lot of years results and not just 3-5 ,but perhaps we all those years with all those chenges in personnel we where demanding immediat results with no precise plan in mind . And changes takes time and effort to be successful!!

[458 Italia]

What I don't get is how race strategy is messed up so often!? It's not like it was back in the day of refuelling where there had to be thinking behind it. You have the car on the tyre you qualified on you drive around until tyre performance falls off a cliff (usually within a lap or two of what Pirelli say it can do) bring the car in depending on whether you believe under/over cut will work or the position you might slot back in the race, put one of the other compounds Pirelli are supplying on, rejoin the track and drive around for the number of laps the tyre lasts for then pit again if necessary.

Ok that might be over simplifying things, but there are certainly less variables than when you had to plan your fuel strategy as well!

[Greig]

Nah. I think I’ll keep posting criticism race after race.

We shall see about that won't we :-)

[paolo lalli]

If you want exitment and great racing watch the moto gp now those guys have serious balls.No gimmicks no tricks just super talented guys.F1 could take a lesson or 2 from moto gp.I think it leaves the snooze fest of f1 for dead.They leave the so called heroics of 2 chains Hamilton in the gutter.

[Schumiklub]

We should have pitted Charles the moment the first car passed KMag. But no, they had to wait for two more laps so the gap was gone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WS6TransAm01]

Don't really know the answer to our problems and there are a lot of times that it has cross my mind that a lot of people has to change.
BUT then I recall that in the last 10 -12 years the team has change a lot of times ,from the president to project leaders every single position. And when we had a new person in a position that didint give us the title (we had plenty of years with poles-wins and eventualy ending 2nd),we demanded again to change. And then I hear from past employees that the "problem " is something like that!!That starting from us tifosi to the team leaders we always demand to have immediat results and this out a lot pressure to the team . The only time the team dominate was when Todt came and ask a blank check and 3-5 years without anyone interfering and asking to bring results earlier. I know that now we are a lot of years results and not just 3-5 ,but perhaps we all those years with all those chenges in personnel we where demanding immediat results with no precise plan in mind . And changes takes time and effort to be successful!!

Part of the problem is that since Todt, Ferrari appears to have been playing the wrong person(s) in that position.


We shall see about that won't we :-)

Ooooo a threat.

[FerrariF60]

Part of the problem is that since Todt, Ferrari appears to have been playing the wrong person(s) in that position.



Ooooo a threat.

U b3tter watch it or you’ll get banned bro...

[Silent Bob]

How are we so sure Vettels strategy was wrong. He was really slow on the mediums and who would have guessed the sorts would last so long? Maybe the fact Ferrari actually made a mid stint strategy change is a good sign that they can think out of the box.

[Silent Bob]

I'm really impressed with how well Leclerc has improved his tire management and race craft in just a year.

[jgonzalesm6]

I'm really impressed with how well Leclerc has improved his tire management and race craft in just a year.

He's really impressive in the F2 races.....that's where he honed his race-craft.

All he needs is a fast car to fght with Lewis and Max.

[FerrariF60]

He's really impressive in the F2 races.....that's where he honed his race-craft.

All he needs is a fast car to fght with Lewis and Max.

Hopefully he’ll get that by 2022....as next year the car will pretty much be da same...
I think Ferrari know they have no chance next season and are putting all the eggs in the 2022 basket when new rules come in

[nani_s23]

How are we so sure Vettels strategy was wrong. He was really slow on the mediums and who would have guessed the sorts would last so long? Maybe the fact Ferrari actually made a mid stint strategy change is a good sign that they can think out of the box.

It’s not about race strategy of 1st stint. Of course he had horrible pace on Mediums, but everyone thought softs wouldn’t last long & it would have been an advantage instead softs started to perform better.

Vettel’s concern was, before Leclerc was out. He was just managing the tyres, but when he & Leclerc were 5th & 6th. That’s where vettel started to push & when Leclerc was out. He started to use those tyres at maximum
to close up gap to Perez. Before that he asked the race strategist to keep him informed on the status & what should be done. This where ferrari didn’t respond. After certain laps, team informed him whether can he make this tyres to the end.
Then he replied in rather different way.

So the point communication is not good. He left frustrated by not being informed of the situation earlier.

[Stormsearcher]

Butler is wasting that Mercedes seat. It's quite infuriating tbh. Even Rubens was more of a challenge to Michael.

To spice up the show, F1 needs Max in that second Mercedes.

oh boy! Merc will implode. LH cannot handle competition within the same team. It'll get nasty in a hurry.

[Alakshendra]

Maybe they are happy at Mercedes? Are you suggesting Ferrari is not trying to hire people?

I am not sure however i read that Andy cowell is leaving Merc and is available,Ferrari should have got him or just get him is what i feel. We need those guys.

[Alakshendra]

We should have pitted Charles the moment the first car passed KMag. But no, they had to wait for two more laps so the gap was gone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

True, right from the time of Arrivabene, the strategy and pit stops has been a big issue with Ferrari. I still remember when Arrivabene said "Sometimes it is more useful to take your eyes off computers and watch the track, using common sense.”. The strategy team surely was not doing the job and still are not able to deliver.

[tifosi1993]

oh boy! Merc will implode. LH cannot handle competition within the same team. It'll get nasty in a hurry.

Which is what I want. We've already seen a glimpse of that with Ham-Nico, imagine the fireworks with Ham-Max lineup.

[Super M]

Part of the problem is that since Todt, Ferrari appears to have been playing the wrong person(s) in that position.



Ooooo a threat.

Whilst i believe we're allowed to express our point of views on here ( to a point ). We need to consider how others take it as well ?



What some are saying is, Even though you're right, It hurts massively when you consistently rub it in! It's like kicking a dog when its down, You don't do that here. We all know that we're going through a bad down fall, We get it, But you're just adding fuel to the fire here.

My 10 cents worth :thumb

[F2008]

Before that he asked the race strategist to keep him informed on the status & what should be done. This where ferrari didn’t respond. After certain laps, team informed him whether can he make this tyres to the end.
Then he replied in rather different way.

So the point communication is not good. He left frustrated by not being informed of the situation earlier.

Ferrari responded to Vettel, they told him to do 23.8 or faster for 3 laps and no more saving. After that they asked him what he thought about going to the end on the same tyres, which was the right call in hindsight, given the traffic behind him. Of course it was a difficult situation, but Vettel is well paid to do difficult things.

[Rob]

Sebastian Vettel #5
“Today we tried something different and it paid off. I was struggling in the first stint, even on medium tyres, while in the second one I felt a lot better, despite having the soft tyre for many laps.
There was some rain forecast at some stage so we extended our stint on softs. In the end we were in a position in which we had nothing to lose, so we took the risk and decided to try and make it to the end. Luckily it worked and this result reflects the maximum we could do today with the car.
There is still lots of work to do, but at the moment this is our true pace, that’s why sometimes we have to take some risks in order to have more or different options to finish ahead of our competitors.”

Charles Leclerc #16
“It’s a shame that we couldn’t finish the race today. I think we had a good chance to finish around P6 or even higher. We were very competitive on the softs and were also quick on the mediums, which we couldn’t fully show because of traffic. The plan was for me to do a one-stop and it was going quite well.
Unfortunately, we had an issue around midrace. Suddenly my screen and engine switched off and the rear wheels locked. We are not yet sure what happened and are investigating the cause. The car eventually started up again, but it was already too late to continue because I had undone my seatbelts and had to return to the pits. Although this year is a little bit tougher than last, we are all motivated to bring home the best results possible for the team and we will keep working hard to achieve this.”

Mattia Binotto Team Principal
“A very disappointing weekend, not just because of the result, but also because of the way we managed it. In qualifying yesterday, we didn’t make the most of the potential at our disposal and we know how important grid position is on this track where overtaking is so difficult.
Despite that, in the race we had a genuine chance of fighting for fourth place with Charles, but a reliability problem put him out of the running. A malfunction in an electronic control unit resulted in his car shutting down, causing him to spin, effectively ending his race.
Sebastian moved up the order well, showing great tenacity and driving very cleanly: doing a 36 lap stint on used Soft tyres is quite something. The same observation goes for him as well as for Charles: starting further up the grid he could have aspired to do better than seventh.
We have dropped out of third spot in the Constructors’ classification, even if by just a few points. We must always get all the potential out of our car if we want to achieve this goal and we must continue to work hard to close the gap to those who today were out of reach for us, namely the only three cars that completed all the laps of this Grand Prix.”

[nani_s23]

Ferrari responded to Vettel, they told him to do 23.8 or faster for 3 laps and no more saving. After that they asked him what he thought about going to the end on the same tyres, which was the right call in hindsight, given the traffic behind him. Of course it was a difficult situation, but Vettel is well paid to do difficult things.

That delta 23.8 was after he’s been told to whether he can end the laps with current set of tyres. Prior to that he’s been doing 1.22.5’s- 1.22.7’s

https://twitter.com/sebinred/status/1295069673667559427?s=21

[aroutis]

Nah. I think I’ll keep posting criticism race after race.

They wouldn’t need a magic wand if they themselves didn’t put themselves in this position in the first place. Ferrari’s current form is not stemming from a single mistake, it’s a systemic and prolonged failure of leadership. Despite years of failure, they continue down the same path. They keep stepping on the same rake over and over again.

At this point, I feel a Walmart assistant manager could do a better job that Benotto. At least at Walmart you might get fired if your don’t do your job.

There is a difference between making criticism and trashing.

[aroutis]

We shall see about that won't we :-)

A good idea is to start banning people that don't understand that trashing the team in order to vent off is stupid.

[JHAMMER]

Butler is wasting that Mercedes seat. It's quite infuriating tbh. Even Rubens was more of a challenge to Michael.

To spice up the show, F1 needs Max in that second Mercedes.

Why would Mercedes want two drivers fighting for a win, when one is winning every championship and the other scores points.
So Bottas is supporting Hamilton anf Mercedes as long as he scores points.
Its obvious Hamilton can drive their can better than Bottas, whether or not that they set car up for Hamilton.
Yes on occasion Barrichello challenged MIcheal, but FERRARI set car up for Michael.
Barrichello had to adapt his driving style for the car, ie left foot braking.
That is why Badoer was so important he new how to test car to suit Michael's driving style.
You can put multiple driver's in the same car and not get the same result.

Look at Repsol Honda in Motogp they changed their bike a little to make it better for Lorenzo, but they were not going to change a lot when Marquez was winning everything and they won both championships.

[tifosi1993]

Why would Mercedes want two drivers fighting for a win, when one is winning every championship and the other scores points.
So Bottas is supporting Hamilton anf Mercedes as long as he scores points.
Its obvious Hamilton can drive their can better than Bottas, whether or not that they set car up for Hamilton.
Yes on occasion Barrichello challenged MIcheal, but FERRARI set car up for Michael.
Barrichello had to adapt his driving style for the car, ie left foot braking.
That is why Badoer was so important he new how to test car to suit Michael's driving style.
You can put multiple driver's in the same car and not get the same result.

Look at Repsol Honda in Motogp they changed their bike a little to make it better for Lorenzo, but they were not going to change a lot when Marquez was winning everything and they won both championships.

Instead of writing all those words, you could've easily looked up my other reply.

Again, I do understand why Mercedes is keeping Bottas. But, having Max there would surely implode the whole Mercedes team. And as I Ferrari fan, I will always welcome that scenario.

[F2008]

That delta 23.8 was after he’s been told to whether he can end the laps with current set of tyres. Prior to that he’s been doing 1.22.5’s- 1.22.7’s

https://twitter.com/sebinred/status/1295069673667559427?s=21


https://youtu.be/dOQrM5qHfrY?t=78

[nani_s23]

[video]https://youtu.be/dOQrM5qHfrY?t=78[/url]

You are not getting actual point.
22.5’s-22.7’s he was doing because he was told to push. Later he was asked whether can we end of the current set.
But initially Ferrari & vettel went into the race thinking of 1stopper itself, Later it was told to push for 2 stopper that’s the reason he was closing on Perez else he would look after those tyres right? 5th would have been optimal.
To avoid blue flag, where he gave space for ham in the S3 there itself he lost 1.5sec to stroll because he slowed down drastically.

[Silent Bob]

Any possibility that we can keep politics out of these threads. Maybe open another thread just for politics. I don't think it's cool to trash another person's beliefs or their political stripes or their country... no matter what you think about it. Just a general appeal, not directed at anyone specific. \i like to come here to read about Ferrari and F1 and kind of get away from all the other crap.

[Silent Bob]

You are not getting actual point.
22.5’s-22.7’s he was doing because he was told to push. Later he was asked whether can we end of the current set.
But initially Ferrari & vettel went into the race thinking of 1stopper itself, Later it was told to push for 2 stopper that’s the reason he was closing on Perez else he would look after those tyres right? 5th would have been optimal.
To avoid blue flag, where he gave space for ham in the S3 there itself he lost 1.5sec to stroll because he slowed down drastically.


Ya but they also had to get rid of the yellow tires pretty quickly so maybe it had changed to 2 stop. Maybe they were expecting yellow tires to go at least half distance.

[nani_s23]

Ya but they also had to get rid of the yellow tires pretty quickly so maybe it had changed to 2 stop. Maybe they were expecting yellow tires to go at least half distance.

Oh yellow his was pace was horrible. Don’t know the reason, but everyone thought it should be an advantage after 10Laps or so. But it didn’t, instead Soft tyre was the rice choice.

This Pirelli tyres literally are garbage.

[jgonzalesm6]

a person that probably doesn't wear a mask in public.

I always wear one. Sorry to disappont.

[Alonsomaniac]

Question: I haven't read anything about it today, but could Charles get into some kind of trouble for driving without seatbelts? I hope not....although I agree it wasn't very clever to do what he did.

[h3ro]

Question: I haven't read anything about it today, but could Charles get into some kind of trouble for driving without seatbelts? I hope not....although I agree it wasn't very clever to do what he did.

I think it would be some sort of paperwork reprimand with no real penalty.

The same kind you get if you run stolen/copied race parts.

[Silent Bob]

Question: I haven't read anything about it today, but could Charles get into some kind of trouble for driving without seatbelts? I hope not....although I agree it wasn't very clever to do what he did.

Back to the topic of F1. I think he will probably get docked a couple of points. I haven't seen any updates but seems like the kind of thing the FIA wouldn't want to let a driver off with.

[Brembo]

Charles took off his seat belt to get out of his car not knowing it would restart. He then came in. He said driving @ 200 mph without a seat belt , he'd get blown out of the car at some point !!

[Rob]

Maranello, 17 August 2020 – Scuderia Ferrari lived through a difficult weekend in Barcelona, with Sebastian Vettel finishing only seventh, while Charles Leclerc had to retire with an electrical problem. That was a shame, as he could have finished fourth, as Team Principal Mattia Binotto maintained in the post race press meetings. We spoke about the Spanish GP strategy with Inaki Rueda the team’s Head of Race Strategy.

How could Charles have finished fourth given that he was down in eleventh place when he retired?

“You have to start with a premise. Usually the Spanish Grand Prix takes place in early May in much cooler temperatures than last weekend. Before the race, we wanted to go for a one stop with both drivers but we knew it would be very difficult. To succeed, the target was to go to at least lap 28 with Charles, who had started on the Softs and to lap 35 with Seb who had Mediums. Despite the traffic, Charles had looked after his tyres well in the first stint, and managed to go to lap 29, thus in the window to switch to a one stop, given that he had a set of new Mediums to use. In fact, once Pierre Gasly who’d been ahead of him, had stopped, Charles had a clear track ahead of him and was able to push. At this point, given that he was running at a good pace, we asked him to try to go to at least lap 28, which we knew was essential for the change of strategy to work and so it was.”

And once on the Mediums?

“Charles soon dispensed with Daniil Kvyat and got in behind Lando Norris. He was much quicker than him at that point in the race and we were certain that some drivers up ahead would be making a second stop and some others would really struggle to make it to the end. In fact, only Sergio Perez made the same choice as us, and given the penalty he was given, that’s how Charles could reasonably have finished fourth. Unfortunately, a control unit failure put an end to that goal…”

How did Sebastian’s race go from a strategy point of view?

“The only positive of not having made the cut to Q3 was that he had a free choice of tyres on which to start the race and could try something different to those ahead of him. Given that we had seen from the data that the Hard tyre would not be an option for either of our drivers, the possibility to go for a one stop using just the Medium and Softs was also very much on the limit for Sebastian. The only way to make it work was to get to lap 35 on the Mediums and in this case also, it would be very difficult or so we thought.”

What options did you look at before the race?

“The most logical way was a two stopper obviously and we had spoken about it, thinking of starting on used Softs, holding back the new set to make the most of them in the closing stages to get past those who had stayed out on track longer on used tyres. Seb did not get on with the tyres in the first stint, especially in traffic and so it was clear that a two stop was the way to go. He also came in on lap 29 with the team doing a double stop, to put him in a window that would protect him from the undercut from Daniel Ricciardo and, at the same time, would allow Charles to maintain position ahead of Esteban Ocon, given that both Renaults had started on the Medium tyre. The guys did a great job at these stops. The car handled better on the Softs and Seb was able to push more. The aim was to get to lap 50, but despite a series of quick laps, we were unable to open the gap to Ricciardo. At this point, we could stick with two stops and risk finishing behind the Renault, or try to go all the way to the flag. We just had to talk to the driver and see if he thought it was on.”

And what did Sebastian say?

“At first, logically enough he was surprised and asked what pace was required to finish in a good position. Having evaluated the pros and cons, Seb gave it a go and, thanks to his talent, he managed to do something that had seemed impossible.”

There’s been a lot of talk about radio communication between the drivers and the pit wall in recent races, as if things are going that well in terms of strategy management. What are your thoughts?

“I don’t think that’s by any means the case. Certainly, compared to the past, race management is much more complicated. It’s a fact that this year we are fighting with a group of teams and drivers whose performance is all very close and so it’s easy to find yourself having to manage scenarios that change lap after lap. Up to last year, the fight was only with a few teams and behind the top three there was an abyss, therefore there was hardly ever a problem with traffic. You just had to open a gap before the first stop and then everything followed on more or less to an equal model with few variables. That’s not the case today and so the talk with the drivers is more frequent and intense and it’s normal that you talk and change your mind, depending on what’s happening on track. Strategies are based on mathematical models but it’s down to the drivers to apply them and they are not programmable computers. Therefore you first have to make them understand how you arrive at certain choices and make them part of the process. We are lucky to have two drivers who take a lot of interest in the race simulations and the various options and we spend a lot of time during the weekend talking about this and the behaviour of the tyres. Honestly, I think the choices made in the last few races have been the right ones and have helped us make up some of the places that we had lost in qualifying, given how hard it is to overtake on track. I think that, also thanks to good tyre management from our drivers, on Sundays we have often managed to maximise the potential at our disposal. But there is always room to improvement, and the most important thing is to improve the performance of the car. With a faster car, everything is easier!”

[Rishu]

Question: I haven't read anything about it today, but could Charles get into some kind of trouble for driving without seatbelts? I hope not....although I agree it wasn't very clever to do what he did.

Webber drove full one lap without his helmet on. Last race or not, if FIA can stay quiet on that then Charles should get away