Italian GP 2020 : Practice and Qualifying

[Ferrarichamp]

Max will probably still finish P3.

[nani_s23]

Wt a start by Mick in F2 ... P7 to P2

[Rob]

Could we all remember the forum rules.

There is no need for name calling or insults aimed at other members.

[MSC Fan]

Mugello should be good for us I think. But we don’t have strong aero package either

Our aero is pretty good as seen in Hungary. It is just that we are forced to run with incredibly low downforce setups everywhere to make up for the loss in power which severely undermines our chassis. The only other teams with better chassis are Merc and Pink Merc . The latter have no idea how to further develop their car because that car isn't built by them. This year's RedBull has one of it's worse chassis in recent years. We would have a tough competition with McLaren but I expect ourselves to prevail just because of a much superior driver lineup.

[nani_s23]

Our aero is pretty good as seen in Hungary. It is just that we are forced to run with incredibly low downforce setups everywhere to make up for the loss in power which severely undermines our chassis. The only other teams with better chassis are Merc and Pink Merc . The latter have no idea how to further develop their car because that car isn't built by them. This year's RedBull has one of it's worse chassis in recent years. We would have a tough competition with McLaren but I expect ourselves to prevail just because of a much superior driver lineup.

I don’t think our aero is good. Barcelona, we got lapped.

[MSC Fan]

I don’t think our aero is good. Barcelona, we got lapped.

Didn't we run with very less downforce? We had a P4 in our hand before Leclerc's engine gave way. He had the pace to jump both Racing Points with the one stop strategy and our tyre advantage would have helped.

[nani_s23]

Didn't we run with very less downforce? We had a P4 in our hand before Leclerc's engine gave way. He had the pace to jump both Racing Points with the one stop strategy and our tyre advantage would have helped.

Don’t think ..!! Actually I’m comparing it with Merc..!!

[Warp]

Bottas: "I'm not sure how happy Red Bull is now with this engine change"

Helmut Marko is an idiot. Running his mouth about engine mode ban, and now his car is behind now only Mercedes, but Mclaren as well.

I'm not sure how happy Bottas is by being behind a Redbull car in the championship while driving a car which is a second faster.

[paolo lalli]

Che sera sera nothing new.

[paolo lalli]

If toto wolf is at the negotiating table with a real wolf the real wolf would leave.He is to smart and knows how to play the fia like a fiddle.Good luck to him and mercedes for the way they have demoralised all teams in f1.As a result week in week out for years has been totally predictable.You can't even place a decent bet on mercedes they are just that good and favourites week in week out.I expect nothing at all from ferrari for the rest of the season.che sera sera.

[paolo lalli]

Formula 1 since the inception of the hybrid era has lost over 60% of its value.Bernie eccelstein could see the writing on the wall and cashed in his sinking ship unknown of the condition to liberty media.Now thats special Bernie baby.$$$$$$$

[wisepie]

We've had to get used to this lack of performance in both ICE and aero so it's not going to solve anything blaming the drivers or even hoping that we would have got into Q3. We all know the score, the SF1000 is an embarrassment for Ferrari and Charles has said it's hard to drive with conviction, it's depressing and demoralising for the team, drivers and tifosi but I will continue to support our team even when its performance is as bad as we've seen at Spa and Monza. We don't need all the fighting on this thread over drivers and Binotto's position although it's understandable that our frustrations get the better of us. We may even scrape a point tomorrow.:-s

[paolo lalli]

One point will seem like a victory but i do not see the 1 point hope iam wrong and we score 2 points even better.i agree bickering and sledging is achieving nothing at all yes its a pressure cooker at the moment and I guess the steam is being released good days will come.But then all days are good when you are upright and breathing and can post on this forum amen.

[wisepie]

One point will seem like a victory but i do not see the 1 point hope iam wrong and we score 2 points even better.i agree bickering and sledging is achieving nothing at all yes its a pressure cooker at the moment and I guess the steam is being released good days will come.But then all days are good when you are upright and breathing and can post on this forum amen.

Quite so, paolo, and amen to that!! Trouble is that it hurts when you're breathing Ferrari!;-)

[TTRSMAD]

Anybody have Q2 sector times and speed traps?

I was looking at Leclerc onboard and he was slow through the corners especially at the first variante and at Roggia.

I guess that straight line speed compromise is killing the cornering ability of his car.

[stefa]

You are ridiculous. Good luck in being a retard who makes no sense. I always said that Vettel started to make mistakes after Germany 2018, but he was great before that and all that time he was way faster than Kimi. He sucks now for some reason, but so do you so.... I can see the picture very clearly. You are just a blinded hater and my time and time of all others here is way too precious to waste it on you anymore kid.

Absolutely right. I've put him on ignore IGNORE mode. No point wasting time over mouthful unmannerly child! :-ZZ

[Alonsomaniac]

No point arguing over p13 and p17. A joke.

Red Bull confirmed Albon the second driver has the slower car as max. The same can be said for Seb he gets worse parts and mechanics dont even give a thing about him anymore. Its always like this when you play the second fidle. It happened to Massa and Kimi and many more.

Ferrari getting their karma for sacking Seb. In a way I love it.

Vettel is getting exactly the same parts as Leclerc. Ferrari needs all the points they can get and has no reason at all to not treat Vettel equal.
But hey, if you think otherwise, don't trust the team and like to see the position Ferrari is in now, this is thescuderia.net. You can always choose to switch to thevettel.net............

[patrese86]

Interesting Toto said Mercedes has been preparing for this TD before it even happened. It's clear they are getting information a long time before anything official from the FIA is issued. Same thing with DAS. Token systems and such.

Probably coming from Brawn.

[jgonzalesm6]

Interesting Toto said Mercedes has been preparing for this TD before it even happened.



Mercedes always has a plan b in place....just in case for situations like this (party mode ban).

Their FRIC system got banned in 2017 and within a month before Barcelona testing, they had a plan b in place and the car was running without the FRIC system.

[458 Italia]

Interesting Toto said Mercedes has been preparing for this TD before it even happened. It's clear they are getting information a long time before anything official from the FIA is issued. Same thing with DAS. Token systems and such.

Probably coming from Brawn.

When did he say that? It honestly wouldn't surprise me if they did have advanced notice though, they pretty much run the show anyway, hopefully merc get bored and move on to something else eventually.

[paolo lalli]

The irony of the current formula1 situation is that a mighty so unprdictable sport has now become the total polar opposite and is just so predictable now if this is healthy for a sport now on life support then iam the pope.The fia have played a major role with mercedes at pandering to there every needs and wants.Even the media can start printing there news papers prior to the race even starting thats how confident they can be.Oh yes a very sad state of affairs.

[FF1]

Is the mercedes engine that fast without party mode or are they allowed to run party mode and others not?

What was the speed trap of our cars compared to the rest. I think i saw charles hit 333/k? Is that a good speed?

[The Hajj]

The Mercedes is just a mile ahead as a total package. It doesn't appear to be just the engine or electric power, as the car is planted on the racing line like it was on a rail. Watching Two Chains on his pole setting lap was disheartening. He looked like he was simply cruising around the track. I still think the FIA helped them by going to the hybrid engine era, but those guys have designed one heck of a race car. Ferrari needs to take a close look at the Mercedes design and try to incorporate as many of their concepts as possible into the Ferrari 2021 car.

[nani_s23]

Mercedes always has a plan b in place....just in case for situations like this (party mode ban).

Their FRIC system got banned in 2017 and within a month before Barcelona testing, they had a plan b in place and the car was running without the FRIC system.

Yup quite opposite to us. When our 2019 engine got out, we don’t have any plan B. It’s just the merc system how it’s functioning & are ready for everything. Yeah to some point FIA are too much favoured to Merc.
But should admire the consistency of Mercs. I would also call incompetency of rival teams to catch Mercs.

[JPMFerrari]

The Mercedes is just a mile ahead as a total package. It doesn't appear to be just the engine or electric power, as the car is planted on the racing line like it was on a rail. Watching Two Chains on his pole setting lap was disheartening. He looked like he was simply cruising around the track. I still think the FIA helped them by going to the hybrid engine era, but those guys have designed one heck of a race car. Ferrari needs to take a close look at the Mercedes design and try to incorporate as many of their concepts as possible into the Ferrari 2021 car.

Yep, it's the whole package. Engine, chassis and aero package. Couple that with their race strategy and pit crew efficiency, they are the Ferrari of the early 2000's, unbeatable.

[Brembo]

Formula 1 since the inception of the hybrid era has lost over 60% of its value.Bernie eccelstein could see the writing on the wall and cashed in his sinking ship unknown of the condition to liberty media.Now thats special Bernie baby.$$$$$$$

Claire Williams shows she's just as smart! I'm already missing her!!!

[paolo lalli]

The difference is she is not missing f1.Williams and Clare new she is just wasting her time.Take what is offered and live a relaxed stress free life.

[nani_s23]

Helmut Marko was asked by Sky Germany about Lewis's recent comments (Max being on his own / no help from his teammate):

"I don't quite understand this. Hamilton called us several times last year, to tell us to put Albon in the car."

:rotfl

[Brembo]

The difference is she is not missing f1.Williams and Clare new she is just wasting her time.Take what is offered and live a relaxed stress free life.

I'm sure Claire got what she wanted not just what was offered.

[paolo lalli]

Looks like Hamilton running red bull to.What an amazing human is there any thing this man can not do.? According to Dr Helmut marko hamilton pushed for albon to be given the seat at Redbull and it worked.

[Brembo]

I believe Michael put in the good word for Seb to get the seat @ Ferrari. Could Ferrari not realize it was the car that did the 4 WDCs?

[KimiBot]

Looks like Hamilton running red bull to.What an amazing human is there any thing this man can not do.? According to Dr Helmut marko hamilton pushed for albon to be given the seat at Redbull and it worked.

:lol

[nani_s23]

I believe Michael put in the good word for Seb to get the seat @ Ferrari. Could Ferrari not realize it was the car that did the 4 WDCs?

:rotfl... before rubens gng to another team?

[Brembo]

:rotfl... before rubens gng to another team?

The only thing you wrote that I understood was ? Are you in shock over those 94 poles?

[nani_s23]

The only thing you wrote that I understood was ? Are you in shock over those 94 poles?

Yes with no competition

[Vettel165]

Why hards for seb are they crazy. Hards are a nightmare.m with no grip.

[Vettel165]

The car feels good much slower than before.

Amazing Seb out and now leclerc cant keep up with the alfa. The worse season in 27 years for ferrari.

[Brembo]

Yes with no competition

I surely agree , Lewis is in a class of his own. No competition ! 26 sec. behind the last car and he finished 7th with a fastest lap also! Was it Auto pilot that got him safely through the crowded track? Anyway he didn't get his 90 yet.

[nani_s23]

I surely agree , Lewis is in a class of his own. No competition ! 26 sec. behind the last car and he finished 7th with a fastest lap also! Was it Auto pilot that got him safely through the crowded track? Anyway he didn't get his 90 yet.

Will get it but of no use...!!

[Brembo]

Will get it but of no use...!!

7x WDC 91+ Wins will make him stay as Simply the Best. No use denying it.Hopefully when Ferrari comes back with a car, Charles will be the next in line as one of the best. I hope he sticks it out in Red!

[chinmay]

7x WDC 91+ Wins will make him stay as Simply the Best. No use denying it.Hopefully when Ferrari comes back with a car, Charles will be the next in line as one of the best. I hope he sticks it out in Red!

He is also the best in most penalty points with 8. 4 more and he gets a race ban.

[nani_s23]

7x WDC 91+ Wins will make him stay as Simply the Best. No use denying it.Hopefully when Ferrari comes back with a car, Charles will be the next in line as one of the best. I hope he sticks it out in Red!

Only in figures. In real, he’s after Senna, Schumi only :rotfl

[Brembo]

He is also the best in most penalty points with 8. 4 more and he gets a race ban.

4 more wins will probably get him the 2020 WDC. That's just 7 , one shy of the penalty points record! Lewis needs to reach Nov. 17th and the points will disappear.

[Brembo]

Only in figures. In real, he’s after Senna, Schumi only :rotfl

In real Binotto figures 10 yrs. Max will be the GOAT by then.

[MSC Fan]

Only in figures. In real, he’s after Senna, Schumi only :rotfl

Prost is better than anyone but Schumi. His driving style was ahead of his time. His technical knowledge was second to none when it came to drivers. I think it was in 1997 after losing the title in Jerez when Jean Todt tried to bring him to Ferrari to coach Michael. The actual ranking is something like Schumacher (GOAT), Prost, Senna, Fangio, Alonso and then Hamilton.

[nani_s23]

Prost is better than anyone but Schumi. His driving style was ahead of his time. His technical knowledge was second to none when it came to drivers. I think it was in 1997 after losing the title in Jerez when Jean Todt tried to bring him to Ferrari to coach Michael. The actual ranking is something like Schumacher (GOAT), Prost, Senna, Fangio, Alonso and then Hamilton.

:clap

[Rishu]

Prost is better than anyone but Schumi. His driving style was ahead of his time. His technical knowledge was second to none when it came to drivers. I think it was in 1997 after losing the title in Jerez when Jean Todt tried to bring him to Ferrari to coach Michael. The actual ranking is something like Schumacher (GOAT), Prost, Senna, Fangio, Alonso and then Hamilton.

Agree on Prost, whole Senna love fest branded Prost as some kind of a villain

The thing that sets Michael apart from all drivers beside his talent was him not chasing winning teams/seat.

[MSC Fan]

Agree on Prost, whole Senna love fest branded Prost as some kind of a villain

The thing that sets Michael apart from all drivers beside his talent was him not chasing winning teams/seat.

True. He had an offer from Ron Dennis in 1997 to get into McLaren and if he did, he would have easily cruised to 3 titles in a row (1998, 1999 and 2000). But instead he stuck with us, fought very hard in inferior cars and made those very cars look great. He was involved in making a dream team the likes of which has only been artificially matched by Mercedes due to their lobbying in the V8 era for getting the V6H engines.

[Brembo]

I believe that even in today's F-1 the Ferrari seats are still held in the highest esteem by all drivers. I only hope Charles will stay strong and stay home! @ Ferrari. Saintz is a lucky driver. I wish him the best.

[killer]

Agree on Prost, whole Senna love fest branded Prost as some kind of a villain.

Agreed. And if one is looking at the driver as an entire package, Ayrton goes further down the list, IMO.

[Brembo]

Proof of Shumy the best is clearly shown with his records. How does Lewis rate last of the best when soon he will have broken all F-1 , Shumy, and everyone else's records? The 2020
F-1 rules alone and FIA in general make the past look easy. I remember when the most poles was a big record to reach. WDC, and most wins was also a big deal back then. A driver coming from 26 seconds behind the last place driver to finish 7th took more than just a car to accomplish. F-1 fans young and old , now have a GOAT they can say they watched come up.
I just wish he was doing all of it in a Ferrari.

[MSC Fan]

It isn't statistics that I'm talking about. I'm talking about the skills.

Michael carried championship battles to the last race in inferior cars like in 1997 and 1998 (that is something even Adrian Newey admits in his book) and won championships in inferior cars in 1995, 2000 and 2003. Likewise, Prost carried incredibly unreliable and plain inferior cars to title contention in 1981-1983 and in 1990, he even won against the dominant Williams in 1986.

Now, Hamilton is a great driver but he hasn't quite achieved what Schumacher and Prost have. He was pretty anonymous in 2010-2013 when compared to Alonso and Vettel. He hasn't carried clear inferior cars to championship contention (in 2010, McLaren and Ferrari were equal and RBR was equalised despite being faster due to reliability issues). All his championships are in dominant cars except for 2008 which was a slightly modified version of the F2007 and was aided by immense bad luck to Massa. So while I accept that he is someone all F1 fans need to look up to, he isn't quite the GOAT in any other thing except statistics.

[nani_s23]

It isn't statistics that I'm talking about. I'm talking about the skills.

Michael carried championship battles to the last race in inferior cars like in 1997 and 1998 (that is something even Adrian Newey admits in his book) and won championships in inferior cars in 1995, 2000 and 2003. Likewise, Prost carried incredibly unreliable and plain inferior cars to title contention in 1981-1983 and in 1990, he even won against the dominant Williams in 1986.

Now, Hamilton is a great driver but he hasn't quite achieved what Schumacher and Prost have. He was pretty anonymous in 2010-2013 when compared to Alonso and Vettel. He hasn't carried clear inferior cars to championship contention (in 2010, McLaren and Ferrari were equal and RBR was equalised despite being faster due to reliability issues). All his championships are in dominant cars except for 2008 which was a slightly modified version of the F2007 and was aided by immense bad luck to Massa. So while I accept that he is someone all F1 fans need to look up to, he isn't quite the GOAT in any other thing except statistics.

:clap well said.

[aroutis]

I surely agree , Lewis is in a class of his own. No competition ! 26 sec. behind the last car and he finished 7th with a fastest lap also! Was it Auto pilot that got him safely through the crowded track? Anyway he didn't get his 90 yet.

Yes, if he had the modes he no longer had he would slice thru the other cars as you well know. But now that was no longer the case was it?
Damn... :(

[aroutis]

It isn't statistics that I'm talking about. I'm talking about the skills.

Michael carried championship battles to the last race in inferior cars like in 1997 and 1998 (that is something even Adrian Newey admits in his book) and won championships in inferior cars in 1995, 2000 and 2003. Likewise, Prost carried incredibly unreliable and plain inferior cars to title contention in 1981-1983 and in 1990, he even won against the dominant Williams in 1986.

Now, Hamilton is a great driver but he hasn't quite achieved what Schumacher and Prost have. He was pretty anonymous in 2010-2013 when compared to Alonso and Vettel. He hasn't carried clear inferior cars to championship contention (in 2010, McLaren and Ferrari were equal and RBR was equalised despite being faster due to reliability issues). All his championships are in dominant cars except for 2008 which was a slightly modified version of the F2007 and was aided by immense bad luck to Massa. So while I accept that he is someone all F1 fans need to look up to, he isn't quite the GOAT in any other thing except statistics.

For all his (undisputed) driving skills, Lewis always chose the easy way to go to a team with a very good car.
That is what differentiates him in comparison with Michael. When he went to Ferrari, Ferrari was a mess, yet he got 3 P1 and we know how he helped build a winning team.

I am an optimist; Brembo will get it.

[Brembo]

This Italian GP going from 1st by a mile!!!! Lewis and his rocket got sent to the back 26 sec. behind. He got 7th place and kept strong points ahead of the competition that includes his team mate. Great driving, deserving of the car he has. With no Ferrari's to watch and hope for; at least the race had good action and a race without Merc on the podium! We Ferrari fans are now just hoping the cars can finish a race in one piece and maybe in the top 10. I too am optimistic the races will be great to watch; even with Claire gone.

[stefa]

I surely agree , Lewis is in a class of his own. No competition ! 26 sec. behind the last car and he finished 7th with a fastest lap also! Was it Auto pilot that got him safely through the crowded track? Anyway he didn't get his 90 yet.

Are you serious?!?! He was not driving it on Monaco streets! It was Monza. Just straights and couple of corners. Very wide track, and a car which is not a class, but 10 classes above every other car!!!!

[killer]

It isn't statistics that I'm talking about. I'm talking about the skills.

Michael carried championship battles to the last race in inferior cars like in 1997 and 1998 (that is something even Adrian Newey admits in his book) and won championships in inferior cars in 1995, 2000 and 2003. Likewise, Prost carried incredibly unreliable and plain inferior cars to title contention in 1981-1983 and in 1990, he even won against the dominant Williams in 1986.

Now, Hamilton is a great driver but he hasn't quite achieved what Schumacher and Prost have. He was pretty anonymous in 2010-2013 when compared to Alonso and Vettel. He hasn't carried clear inferior cars to championship contention (in 2010, McLaren and Ferrari were equal and RBR was equalised despite being faster due to reliability issues). All his championships are in dominant cars except for 2008 which was a slightly modified version of the F2007 and was aided by immense bad luck to Massa. So while I accept that he is someone all F1 fans need to look up to, he isn't quite the GOAT in any other thing except statistics.

Michael's Michael but let's not say the F1-2000 and the 2003-GA were inferior cars. That they had competition is the better way of putting it. They weren't the F2004, but they weren't exactly midfield material either.

[stefa]

Michael's Michael but let's not say the F1-2000 and the 2003-GA were inferior cars. That they had competition is the better way of putting it. They weren't the F2004, but they weren't exactly midfield material either.

To be fair, no matter how good driver is, he cannot fight with inferior car with bad driver in superior car!

[MSC Fan]

Michael's Michael but let's not say the F1-2000 and the 2003-GA were inferior cars. That they had competition is the better way of putting it. They weren't the F2004, but they weren't exactly midfield material either.

Excuse me if I exaggerated it. What I mean is, the McLaren was better in 2000 and the Williams was better in 2003 (they only lacked a good driver, Mark Webber, while testing for them was half a second faster than Montoya and Ralf).

Not to mention that the FIA deliberately tried to stop us in 2003 by introducing a new point system which didn't credit the race winners enough. By inferior cars, what I mean is not the best car. That is something Hamilton hasn't done and the FIA doesn't care too much about Merc dominance for some reason.

[Brembo]

Are you serious?!?! He was not driving it on Monaco streets! It was Monza. Just straights and couple of corners. Very wide track, and a car which is not a class, but 10 classes above every other car!!!!

It seems Lewis was 13 classes above the other drivers coming in 7th. along with his 10 classes ahead car. I never herd anyone describe Monza as just straights and a couple of corners. If that's the case what happened to all the drivers who crashed and esp. our Ferraris? Tell that to Saintz and Stroll. Be it the wide track or the class 10 car Lewis managed to still come out with points enough to hold that so far #1 spot. Throw in a fastest lap point too. But... no 90 !

[wisepie]

It seems Lewis was 13 classes above the other drivers coming in 7th. along with his 10 classes ahead car. I never herd anyone describe Monza as just straights and a couple of corners. If that's the case what happened to all the drivers who crashed and esp. our Ferraris? Tell that to Saintz and Stroll. Be it the wide track or the class 10 car Lewis managed to still come out with points enough to hold that so far #1 spot. Throw in a fastest lap point too. But... no 90 !

Brembo, will you please shut up about Hamilton and his taking of all of Michael's records, they are not comparable and we don't need to be reminded that it is about to happen, Sky will be rubbing our noses in it forever more as it is!:roll

[stefa]

It seems Lewis was 13 classes above the other drivers coming in 7th. along with his 10 classes ahead car. I never herd anyone describe Monza as just straights and a couple of corners. If that's the case what happened to all the drivers who crashed and esp. our Ferraris? Tell that to Saintz and Stroll. Be it the wide track or the class 10 car Lewis managed to still come out with points enough to hold that so far #1 spot. Throw in a fastest lap point too. But... no 90 !

Our Ferrari crashed because CL made a mistake and because car is pure undrivable garbage! Who else crashed? :Hmm

[stefa]

Brembo, will you please shut up about Hamilton and his taking of all of Michael's records, they are not comparable and we don't need to be reminded that it is about to happen, Sky will be rubbing our noses in it forever more as it is!:roll

AGREE 100%. LH troll!!!!

[458 Italia]

AGREE 100%. LH troll!!!!

Seconded. I gave him the benefit of doubt, but it's posts like that which help to convince me he's trolling.

[stefa]

Seconded. I gave him the benefit of doubt, but it's posts like that which help to convince me he's trolling.

First it was obsesion with MV, and not is LH :doh

[killer]

Excuse me if I exaggerated it. What I mean is, the McLaren was better in 2000 and the Williams was better in 2003 (they only lacked a good driver, Mark Webber, while testing for them was half a second faster than Montoya and Ralf).

Not to mention that the FIA deliberately tried to stop us in 2003 by introducing a new point system which didn't credit the race winners enough. By inferior cars, what I mean is not the best car. That is something Hamilton hasn't done and the FIA doesn't care too much about Merc dominance for some reason.

:thumb Understood.

[Brembo]

First it was obsesion with MV, and not is LH :doh

You left out my first driver obsession as my favorite driver , Rubens Barichello! Hatred was not a strong enough word here for me and Rubens here on the FERRARI forum.I stuck it out anyway. Meanwhile Michael's biggest fan ever is and will always be Toto Wolf who over and over praises Michael's going home to Merc and all his input brought forward to the team is what made Merc and lucky drivers untouchable so far. Are Michael fans here now trolling? :rotfl Charles is the driver I most want to see successful now and in the future. My going over his last race results here would be far worse than acknowledging who came in 7th from the back. Even if OK it was the car, the easy track , not the driver! :rotfl Albon wrecked his floor ,Seb hit the polystyrene barrier, red flag. Not the toughest but not the easiest track.