Michael Schumacher vs Lewis Hamilton

[SS454]

I have been thinking about the topic for much of 2020 as it was clear Hamilton was going to tie Schumacher with his 7th world championship. So I decided to make a video. Just wanted to share and get some opinions or feedback. The video is unlisted, no description, no links, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXZQWqFJaFI


Edit: Had to re-upload

Edit 2: Re-upload again due to a copyright claim

[Silent Bob]

Only 1 drove for Ferrari. Nuff said. Nice video.

[SS454]

Thanks.

I do kinda wish it was MSC driving for Mercedes at some point between 2014 and 2020 though.

[Brembo]

Thanks.

I do kinda wish it was MSC driving for Mercedes at some point between 2014 and 2020 though.

Nico wrecked any hopes of hat happening.

[aroutis]

I have been thinking about the topic for much of 2020 as it was clear Hamilton was going to tie Schumacher with his 7th world championship. So I decided to make a video. Just wanted to share and get some opinions or feedback. The video is unlisted, no description, no links, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3re91G5ZjQ


Edit: Had to reupload

Excellent work. #respect.

As for my opinion and disregarding my personal preference, I do believe that taking your analysis into account as well ,Michael is the better driver.
I don't take anything from LH , he's done plenty in his days, however, when you do compare , you need to take everything into account and truth being told , for better or worse he 's had it easier.

[aroutis]

Nico wrecked any hopes of hat happening.

And here I was thinking that it was that skiing accident.

[Brembo]

And here I was thinking that it was that skiing accident.

I was only thinking about F-1 and how things turned out @ Merc with regards to Nico being the better driver. The skiing accident is just too terrible for me to accept. I'd rather just talk F-1.

[SS454]

Excellent work. #respect.

As for my opinion and disregarding my personal preference, I do believe that taking your analysis into account as well ,Michael is the better driver.
I don't take anything from LH , he's done plenty in his days, however, when you do compare , you need to take everything into account and truth being told , for better or worse he 's had it easier.

Thanks. I tried to do my best and not be biased in research and just let the data tell the story. The more I picked it apart the more obvious the answer got. I completely agree Hamilton is a great talent that has done many things, but it is possible he has had the most advantages of any F1 driver in history.

[Brembo]

Thanks. I tried to do my best and not be biased in research and just let the data tell the story. The more I picked it apart the more obvious the answer got. I completely agree Hamilton is a great talent that has done many things, but it is possible he has had the most advantages of any F1 driver in history.

One of the biggest advantage of any driver in F-1 history is having your contract guarantee you to be the team's #1 driver and your team mate has to move over or give up his seat. In Louis' case his team mate is right up there with Max trying to take out Louis as #1. If a driver is truly a great, he should have to race to truly win , no extra's like move over should be included. At the time there were a few top drivers who refused the seat @ Ferrari just because of that clause that would be against them. Who knows who would have been the better if they in fact signed up? 2020 car wise Louis has a lot to do with his ride being #1, with all the input to the team as far as what's up with the car. The drivers are the main testers of what the car needs .

[SS454]

One of the biggest advantage of any driver in F-1 history is having your contract guarantee you to be the team's #1 driver and your team mate has to move over or give up his seat. In Louis' case his team mate is right up there with Max trying to take out Louis as #1. If a driver is truly a great, he should have to race to truly win , no extra's like move over should be included. At the time there were a few top drivers who refused the seat @ Ferrari just because of that clause that would be against them. Who knows who would have been the better if they in fact signed up? 2020 car wise Louis has a lot to do with his ride being #1, with all the input to the team as far as what's up with the car. The drivers are the main testers of what the car needs .

All the great drivers put themselves in a spot to be #1 and get the advantages that go with it. Alonso is particularly stubborn about having things his way or he loses his mind.

From a team standpoint, it makes sense to develop the car around the best driver for the best chances of winning. Ricciardo did very well against Max, and since he left RBR put all their eggs in the Max basket and no other teammate has come close.

It's why I had to mention "favoritism" as a factor to Michael and Lewis' success.

[Brembo]

All the great drivers put themselves in a spot to be #1 and get the advantages that go with it. Alonso is particularly stubborn about having things his way or he loses his mind.

From a team standpoint, it makes sense to develop the car around the best driver for the best chances of winning. Ricciardo did very well against Max, and since he left RBR put all their eggs in the Max basket and no other teammate has come close.

It's why I had to mention "favoritism" as a factor to Michael and Lewis' success.

Very true, Alonso was stubborn about how he wanted his car; come race time; not his contract to be #1 in writing. Max also is on top through his driving, Dan was allowed but just couldn't keep up with him. Merc as you say has developed their top car around their top driver's car input. Drivers will have to really do their best to reach future wins in the 100 s.

[Williams F1 Fan]

Who is Jacques Villennouu? :lol A tough debate. Both Drivers have 7 Driver Titles, (then
Lewis may get an 8th this Season). Both Drivers had various rivals to face through their careers. Michael came up against Jacques Villneuve, Mika Hakkenhein, who Michael rated as the best driver that he raced against. Then there was Montoya which Michael saw off. Lewis has had rivalry in Seb Vettel and Max.
I think Michael started off at Ferrari and Mercedes with not the best of cars. Michael helped to build up Ferrari with his Testing input of the car. Another factor in Michael's work at the two Teams is Ross Brawn. Both of them were factors in Ferrari's dominance.
When Lewis started at McLaren and Mercedes, I think they were OK cars. It seems as if he was at the Teams, at the start of there rises. It seemed like Michael was doing the ground work at Mercedes, then Lewis says, 'i'll have that car'.
You can't question Lewis's achievement in F1 if he Wins an 8th Drivers Title. As someone mentioned in a previous Post, it seems as if he has had it easier.
So I think that the Best Driver is Jacques Villennouu. No, sorry, I meant Michael Schumacher. :champ:clap

[SS454]

I've been watching the comments and dislikes on Youtube. Man the Lewis haters and Senna fanboys are so triggered when you bring facts to the table. And it was never about Senna, just a Lewis vs Hamilton comparo.

[jgonzalesm6]

Michael came up against Jacques Villneuve, Mika Hakkenhein, who Michael rated as the best driver that he raced against. Then there was Montoya which Michael saw off. Lewis has had rivalry in Seb Vettel and Max.

Alonso in 2005 and 2006???


I think Michael started off at Ferrari and Mercedes with not the best of cars. Michael helped to build up Ferrari with his Testing input of the car. Another factor in Michael's work at the two Teams is Ross Brawn. Both of them were factors in Ferrari's dominance.

Michael and team started off at Benetton-->then Ferrari--->BrawnGP-->MercedesAMGF1. Lewis is enjoying the foundations of what was started years ago.

The team that Michael brought consisted of Ross Brawn, which you mentioned, Jean Todt, Rory Byrne. When Michael went to Mercedes, he helped Toto build the championship winning cars that Lewis, along with Nico, have won a WDC title or multiple titles.


When Lewis started at McLaren and Mercedes, I think they were OK cars. It seems as if he was at the Teams, at the start of there rises. It seemed like Michael was doing the ground work at Mercedes, then Lewis says, 'i'll have that car'.

True but the turbo hybrid era was a totally different animal that MercedesAMGF1 jumped on to and dominated.


You can't question Lewis's achievement in F1 if he Wins an 8th Drivers Title. As someone mentioned in a previous Post, it seems as if he has had it easier.
So I think that the Best Driver is Jacques Villennouu. No, sorry, I meant Michael Schumacher. :champ:clap

2 different era's regarding Michael Schumacher and Lewis Hamilton.

Michael and team made Ferrari into a dominat force along with unlimited testing.

Lewis did'nt make MercedesAMGF1. MercedesAMGF1 made Lewis into a multiple WDC title contender. Lewis did extremely well signing with MercedesAMGF1. BTW, Lewis dislikes to practice or test.

[wisepie]

I'm getting tired of this comparison, different eras and Michael never had such a dominant car in absolute terms, his tactics may sometimes have been dubious but his championships were a result of a long, hard graft to get a car capable of delivering what he needed.

[Greig]

The team that Michael brought consisted of Ross Brawn, which you mentioned, Jean Todt, Rory Byrne.

Todt brought Michael, not the other way round :-)

[Williams F1 Fan]

Oh yes, forgot all about Fernando Alonso and Renault in 2005 and 2006. That Renault was strong in those two years with Alonso. Believe that Flavio Briatorie was Team manager? That Mild Seven Renault looked pretty awesome.
Backs up my opinion that Michael Schumacher is better. He has had more competition to face.

[Brembo]

[QUOTE=jgonzalesm6;1043005]Alonso in 2005 and 2006???

BTW, Lewis dislikes to practice or test.[/QUOTE
I can't even imagine how many more wins poles and WDCs Sir Lewis would now have and continue winning if he decided to practice and test more than he now does.

[Redfive]

If Michael had a totally dominating car for as long as goldenboy has, he would have been a 12x WDC.

[Nick Singer]

If Michael had a totally dominating car for as long as goldenboy has, he would have been a 12x WDC.

Since the dawn of the hybrid era, Mercedes have had the fastest car bar none. Their dominance varied season by season but it was always the fastest car.

HAM is without doubt a 'great' - in the top five of all time - but it is easier when you have had the fastest car since 2014. He only failed to win the WDC once, when beaten by his team mate - 'One Hit' Nico!

[aroutis]

[QUOTE=jgonzalesm6;1043005]Alonso in 2005 and 2006???

BTW, Lewis dislikes to practice or test.[/QUOTE
I can't even imagine how many more wins poles and WDCs Sir Lewis would now have and continue winning if he decided to practice and test more than he now does.
Ifs and buts get you nowhere. Lewis has a dominant car for the better of 7 years. Fact. Lewis has the favor of FIA.
Fact. Lewis has the numbers because of the aforementioned facts.
There you go.

[aroutis]

Since the dawn of the hybrid era, Mercedes have had the fastest car bar none. Their dominance varied season by season but it was always the fastest car.

HAM is without doubt a 'great' - in the top five of all time - but it is easier when you have had the fastest car since 2014. He only failed to win the WDC once, when beaten by his team mate - 'One Hit' Nico!

Lewis has been proven to have issues under pressure; actually so has Mercedes.
Which is paramount to have teams to exert pressure to them over and over to them.

[tifosi1993]

Both Schumacher and Hamilton can be regarded as the best of this sport. Some people may include Senna, But I disagree on that notion. Prost is, was and always will be better than Senna. He had the better of him when they were teammates and he wasn't a dirty racer.

And speaking of dirty racers, what separates Schumacher from Hamilton is their on track antics. Hamilton may act like a brat under pressure or throws toys out of pram when things don't get his way. But he wasn't as ruthless or dangerous as Schumacher was Schumacher's career is filled with dangerous and questionable driving. He got excluded from a Championship by his own doings, he put other drivers in danger on plenty of occasions, he deliberately stopped his car in Monaco to deny Alonso the pole. And there are plenty of other examples that I've excluded.

Hamilton's career on the other hand is sparklingly clean compared to Schumacher's. The only dreg on this career is the lie-gate, when he was instructed/ordered by Mclaren to lie. But I don't think Hamilton has had ever put another driver's life in danger deliberately, like Schumacher used to. Also Hamilton's previous teammates never complained about his driving antics, unlike Schumacher's.

[wisepie]

Both Schumacher and Hamilton can be regarded as the best of this sport. Some people may include Senna, But I disagree on that notion. Prost is, was and always will be better than Senna. He had the better of him when they were teammates and he wasn't a dirty racer.

And speaking of dirty racers, what separates Schumacher from Hamilton is their on track antics. Hamilton may act like a brat under pressure or throws toys out of pram when things don't get his way. But he wasn't as ruthless or dangerous as Schumacher was Schumacher's career is filled with dangerous and questionable driving. He got excluded from a Championship by his own doings, he put other drivers in danger on plenty of occasions, he deliberately stopped his car in Monaco to deny Alonso the pole. And there are plenty of other examples that I've excluded.

Hamilton's career on the other hand is sparklingly clean compared to Schumacher's. The only dreg on this career is the lie-gate, when he was instructed/ordered by Mclaren to lie. But I don't think Hamilton has had ever put another driver's life in danger deliberately, like Schumacher used to. Also Hamilton's previous teammates never complained about his driving antics, unlike Schumacher's.

There's an element of truth in what you say, tifosi, but I do recall occasions in 2008 when he was duelling with Felipe for the WDC and there were some not quite safe lunges, notably Singapore and Valencia, I believe.

[SS454]

Both Schumacher and Hamilton can be regarded as the best of this sport. Some people may include Senna, But I disagree on that notion. Prost is, was and always will be better than Senna. He had the better of him when they were teammates and he wasn't a dirty racer.

And speaking of dirty racers, what separates Schumacher from Hamilton is their on track antics. Hamilton may act like a brat under pressure or throws toys out of pram when things don't get his way. But he wasn't as ruthless or dangerous as Schumacher was Schumacher's career is filled with dangerous and questionable driving. He got excluded from a Championship by his own doings, he put other drivers in danger on plenty of occasions, he deliberately stopped his car in Monaco to deny Alonso the pole. And there are plenty of other examples that I've excluded.

Hamilton's career on the other hand is sparklingly clean compared to Schumacher's. The only dreg on this career is the lie-gate, when he was instructed/ordered by Mclaren to lie. But I don't think Hamilton has had ever put another driver's life in danger deliberately, like Schumacher used to. Also Hamilton's previous teammates never complained about his driving antics, unlike Schumacher's.

Every great driver has some questionable moments, even Lewis. 2008 he had several altercations with Massa. 2016 he deliberately slowed his pace to ruin his team mates race in order to win the WDC, despite the team telling him not to. He's had several collisions with team mates, of course sharing blame.

Schumacher has definitely done had worse moments. He was as ruthless as it gets on track.

Off track, Hamilton has a much worse lowlight collection.

[aroutis]

Every great driver has some questionable moments, even Lewis. 2008 he had several altercations with Massa. 2016 he deliberately slowed his pace to ruin his team mates race in order to win the WDC, despite the team telling him not to. He's had several collisions with team mates, of course sharing blame.

Schumacher has definitely done had worse moments. He was as ruthless as it gets on track.

Off track, Hamilton has a much worse lowlight collection.

Exactly.
And it's weird that people seem to believe that Hamilton is "sparkling clean" when of course, he 's not.

[tifosi1993]

Every great driver has some questionable moments, even Lewis. 2008 he had several altercations with Massa. 2016 he deliberately slowed his pace to ruin his team mates race in order to win the WDC, despite the team telling him not to. He's had several collisions with team mates, of course sharing blame.

Schumacher has definitely done had worse moments. He was as ruthless as it gets on track.

Off track, Hamilton has a much worse lowlight collection.

2008 was a hard fought fight between Massa and Hamilton. But I can't remember any incidents where Hamilton tried to take out Massa. Pair of them fought hard on track but kept it clean. Maybe you can provide examples of those "several altercations" between Massa and Hamilton.

Abu Dhabi 2016, tell me, which driver wouldn't do the same? But again Hamilton kept it clean. He didn't initiate any break testing or tried to put Rosberg on the wall, as Schumacher did throughout his career even when not involved in a WDC fight.

Schumacher wasn't just ruthless, he was downright dangerous and had no problem going beyond the acceptable level of wheel-wheel racing. He took people out, he put other drivers in dangerous situations willingly. I can't remember any instances where Hamilton willingly and knowing tried to take his rivals out.

So yeah, as I've said, compared to Schumacher, Hamilton's career is sparklingly clean. Schumacher was a dangerous driver who hardly cared about anything. Hamilton is a hard racer, but he's pretty much always fair and doesn't force people on the wall, or brake test them or try to take them out etc. etc.

What I've said is pure and simple facts backed up by plenty of evidences. I don't care if Schumacher fans getting their feelings hurt. Just because he drove for Ferrari it doesn't mean we should keep our eyes shut and ignore all those dirty and dangerous driving antics of Schumacher's.

[tifosi1993]

There's an element of truth in what you say, tifosi, but I do recall occasions in 2008 when he was duelling with Felipe for the WDC and there were some not quite safe lunges, notably Singapore and Valencia, I believe.

Lunging on the inside under braking is one thing, but taking out someone willingly is completely different. Hamilton never tried to take Massa out, that's my point. Remember Hungary 2008 when Massa drove outside of Hamilton and passed him? If it was Schumacher he would've forced Massa on to the grass.

Hamilton had won 7 titles and now fighting for his 8th. But unlike Schumacher, Hamilton's on track racing record is pretty much clean.

[wisepie]

Lunging on the inside under braking is one thing, but taking out someone willingly is completely different. Hamilton never tried to take Massa out, that's my point. Remember Hungary 2008 when Massa drove outside of Hamilton and passed him? If it was Schumacher he would've forced Massa on to the grass.

Hamilton had won 7 titles and now fighting for his 8th. But unlike Schumacher, Hamilton's on track racing record is pretty much clean.

I still maintain that HAM hasn't been completely clean in combat, especially in his earlier F1 career, but yes, he hasn't actually forced another driver off the track willingly. And anyway, I reiterate my belief that Felipe was the deserving 2008 WDC, and for me always will be! OK, so he was in red, but do I care?!;-)

[SS454]

@tifosi1993

Hamilton has pushed drivers onto the grass before. He's had plenty of "brain farts" that caused accidents.

Schumacher's incidents are high profile because they were over the championship. His most dangerous action was what he did to Barrichello at Hungary. The crash in 1994 vs Hill, and Jerez 1997 certainly appear to be deliberate, but I don't think they are more dangerous than a lot of other incidents by other drivers. All these brake checks you speak of, when were they? Also the 1997 incident nobody ever talks about the fact JV didn't even try to turn into the corner, he was going straight passed the apex.

What about Verstappen cutting people off at 200 mph and swerving all over? If Kimi didn't back off in Spa, it would have been a terribly dangerous.

Alonso vs Hamilton in Qual 2007, very dirty tactic.

Vettel Multi 21 vs Webber? Vettel thumping his car into Hamilton at Baku?

Rosberg deliberate crash into Lewis at Austria? Rosberg putting Hamilton into the grass at Spain 2016 and Lewis not backing out, instead going for it in the grass?

Senna/Prost at Japan x2?


You can continue the Schumacher bash all you want, you aren't convincing anyone he has moments of being a dirty driver because everyone already knows it. The point is all the great drivers have moments.

[Brembo]

Sir Lewis pushing a driver onto "The Grass" and pushing Rubens a former team mate within millimeters of a concrete wall at 190 MPH fighting for 10th place was not over any championships. The point is; that was for sure not a great driver's moment . But.... one can say that it was a great driver's moment for Rubens not hitting the wall and winding up dead or a cripple . 10th place!!! Hard racing at it's worse.

[tifosi1993]

@SS454

So you can't provide any examples of "several altercations" between Massa and Hamilton when they fought for the 2008 WDC. Noted.

It's quite hard to have nuanced discussions on this forum, sometimes.

Thread title" Schumacher vs Hamilton"

My post: Both are the greatest, but the main difference is, Hamilton kept it clean, Schumacher hadn't. Hamilton never got dis-qualified from a WDC fight, nor any of his former teammates ever accused him of trying to kill them on track. Schumacher's career is filled with controversies and dangerous driving antics. Simple facts.

I'm not interested in whataboutisms and other peoples wounded feelings. I'm not bashing Schumacher, I'm simply stating facts and the main difference Schumacher and Hamilton. Because skill wise both are inseparable, it's their on track driving where the main difference lies.

[aroutis]

My post: Both are the greatest, but the main difference is, Hamilton kept it clean, Schumacher hadn't.
Lewis also had his moments. Schumacher was more public,mainly because the british press did not like the fact that british teams/drivers got punished.
That simple.
But Lewis being an angel and clean ? No.

[SS454]

@tifosi1993

Sorry it was 2011 that Hamilton and Massa had most of their altercations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m481ED70_No <--- could any of those be deemed Massa's fault or just poor judgement by Hamilton? I think it's hard racing, but it's not exactly squeaky clean.

You say filled with dangerous driving antics. What other examples are there?

[tifosi1993]

Lewis also had his moments. Schumacher was more public,mainly because the british press did not like the fact that british teams/drivers got punished.
That simple.
But Lewis being an angel and clean ? No.

Tried to screw over Hill, tried to take out Villeneuve, parked the car intentionally to stop the qualifying, almost killed Rubens on track etc etc, and there are so many other incidents.
Hamilton did none of those things.

As Lauda said, "Schumacher would cheat to win". Which is a sad thing, since he never needed to cheat because he had all the skills to prosper.

[SS454]

Tried to screw over Hill, tried to take out Villeneuve, parked the car intentionally to stop the qualifying, almost killed Rubens on track etc etc, and there are so many other incidents.
Hamilton did none of those things.

As Lauda said, "Schumacher would cheat to win". Which is a sad thing, since he never needed to cheat because he had all the skills to prosper.

You name the exact 4 that everyone knows about and claim there is so many more. What are any others?

[tifosi1993]

@tifosi1993

Sorry it was 2011 that Hamilton and Massa had most of their altercations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m481ED70_No <--- could any of those be deemed Massa's fault or just poor judgement by Hamilton? I think it's hard racing, but it's not exactly squeaky clean.

You say filled with dangerous driving antics. What other examples are there?

So it's nothing bad simple but hard racing.

Every driver had incidents throughout their career, But very few got dis-qualified from the championship by trying to intentionally take out a rival.

I don't know why it's so had to understand this simple fact: Hamilton's on track ethics are much, much better then Schumacher's.

[tifosi1993]

You name the exact 4 that everyone knows about and claim there is so many more. What are any others?

Adelaide 1994, weaving on the track like a madman which forced FIA to clarify "one move rule" in 1995, Jerez 1997, GB 1998, Austria 2000, Hungary 2010 when he tried to kill Rubens etc etc..

Also Google is your friend. Simply typing "Schumacher controversial moments" would give you all info you need. Then compare that to Hamilton's "controversial" moments.

[SS454]

For the umteenth time, I never said Hamilton's history of controversy compares to Schumacher.

You could have googled Hamilton vs Massa, so I'll insist on you backing up your claims.

I haven't seen MS weaving in 1994, but I guess it wasn't illegal at the time.

You mentioned the JV 1997 incident again. Why?

What happened in Great Britain 1998?

What happened in Austria 2000 considering he was taken out in the first corner?

You mention 2010 Hungary against RB again, why?

[TTRSMAD]

I have to agree to the fact that Michael Schumacher was the end justifies the means kind of racer. He was ruthless and his will to win was unparalleled. That was part of his character that made him overcome challenges that was normal drivers would fail due to the nature of formula 1, the fact that usually the driver with the best equipment wins.

He did not always have the best equipment and he managed miracles with inferior cars. Talent for talent, Lewis and Michael is pretty equal. Where they differ is that Michael was able to bring people around him and succeed. In my view, Michael is the GOAT but Lewis is close.

This was Lewis before he had the rocket ship hybrid engine. ENJOY! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7_SnEQdZpY

[wisepie]

@tifosi1993

Sorry it was 2011 that Hamilton and Massa had most of their altercations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m481ED70_No <--- could any of those be deemed Massa's fault or just poor judgement by Hamilton? I think it's hard racing, but it's not exactly squeaky clean.

You say filled with dangerous driving antics. What other examples are there?

Nice to see these fights between Felipe and HAM again, makes me even more sure that HAM was guilty as charged!;-)

[Redfive]

Hamilton's career on the other hand is sparklingly clean compared to Schumacher's. The only dreg on this career is the lie-gate, when he was instructed/ordered by Mclaren to lie. But I don't think Hamilton has had ever put another driver's life in danger deliberately, like Schumacher used to. Also Hamilton's previous teammates never complained about his driving antics, unlike Schumacher's.

Sparkingly clean? This is the only driver who's ever been disqualified from a race for lying to race stewards and race control? That's cheating no matter how you spin in.

[tifosi1993]

Sparkingly clean? This is the only driver who's ever been disqualified from a race for lying to race stewards and race control? That's cheating no matter how you spin in.

You lack reading comprehension. "Compared to Schumacher", "ordered by Mclaren". Never said it wasn't a cheating, it's you who're trying to spin it.

Schumacher on his own accord tried to crash into his championship rival so that he could take him out and got dis-qualified, plus the numerous times he tried to kill another driver on track. Compared to Schumacher, Hamilton's offences look pretty innocuous. Like comparing Murder to grocery store thefts.

[aroutis]

Tried to screw over Hill, tried to take out Villeneuve, parked the car intentionally to stop the qualifying, almost killed Rubens on track etc etc, and there are so many other incidents.
Hamilton did none of those things.

As Lauda said, "Schumacher would cheat to win". Which is a sad thing, since he never needed to cheat because he had all the skills to prosper.

You know that Senna did a really bad thing at Japan and yet noone cared because he was driving a Mclaren.
And Michael, did take after Senna and yet, since he was German taking down the British establishment, everything he did was looked upon totally biased.

Was he an angel? Of course not. Did he do things he should not, sure. Ask me if I care.
Same thing goes for every great.

[aroutis]

Sparkingly clean? This is the only driver who's ever been disqualified from a race for lying to race stewards and race control? That's cheating no matter how you spin in.

But this is Hamilton. Hero in the making, the one and only that had to restore the British image.
Come on people, surely you can see it.

[aroutis]

So it's nothing bad simple but hard racing.
Every driver had incidents throughout their career, But very few got dis-qualified from the championship by trying to intentionally take out a rival.

And here's the $2,000,000.00 question. Why didn't Senna had his points stripped after Japan?

[tifosi1993]

Go ask Senna. The discussion is between Schumacher and Hamilton and I'd stick to it. I don't care about whataboutism or bringing up driver X, Y or Z to defend your favorite driver's dangerous driving record.

If Hamilton tried to kill other drivers on track numerous times or gets thrown out of a WDC fight because he was petulant enough to deliberately crash into his championship rival in order to win the WDC, then sure feel free to come back at me. Otherwise, don't bother. Stick to your whataboutism, see if anyone cares.

[SS454]

the numerous times he tried to kill another driver on track. Compared to Schumacher, Hamilton's offences look pretty innocuous. Like comparing Murder to grocery store thefts.

Now you are just talking stupid. Seriously, what kind of utter nonsense is that?

There is literally ONE time Schumacher's driving was blatantly dangerous. But to suggest it was an attempt to murder is ridiculous. And I know you are going to bring up how Barrichello used the words "tried to kill me", but so have dozens of other drivers in other incidents in the heat of the moment. Hell even Michael used those words when he collided with Coulthard.

You keep saying stating his supposed endless list of murderous driving by Schumacher but have not once backed it up. You keep repeating the same 3 or 4 occurrences but claim that he has 100 others but you can't prove it.

So step up or shut up.

[Brembo]

A Shumacher veto power team orders contract is also a "Killer;" if your his team mate. " Let Michael pass or lose your seat. " If Rubens didn't drive perfectly and save his own life that race would fans say; " Oh he only killed ONE driver in his whole career ? Meanwhile regardless of Binotto's ignoring the 2021 season for better times to come, the year 2021 may well go down in F-1 history as the GOAT ! New records will be set that may well take decades to reach. Ferrari's 12 will still hold strong!!

[aroutis]

Go ask Senna. The discussion is between Schumacher and Hamilton and I'd stick to it. I don't care about whataboutism or bringing up driver X, Y or Z to defend your favorite driver's dangerous driving record.

If Hamilton tried to kill other drivers on track numerous times or gets thrown out of a WDC fight because he was petulant enough to deliberately crash into his championship rival in order to win the WDC, then sure feel free to come back at me. Otherwise, don't bother. Stick to your whataboutism, see if anyone cares.

There is no what aboutism, there is however making a point. And I am pretty sure I made it, judging by your reaction.

[aroutis]

A Shumacher veto power team orders contract is also a "Killer;" if your his team mate. " Let Michael pass or lose your seat. " If Rubens didn't drive perfectly and save his own life that race would fans say; " Oh he only killed ONE driver in his whole career ? Meanwhile regardless of Binotto's ignoring the 2021 season for better times to come, the year 2021 may well go down in F-1 history as the GOAT ! New records will be set that may well take decades to reach. Ferrari's 12 will still hold strong!!

Sorry but did you forget your pills?

[Brembo]

O k I must be wrong imagining 2021 finishing with 8 WDCs and 100+ wins! Mission impossible. And believing Ferrari on a few podiums! For me the races are great.

[tifosi1993]

There is no what aboutism, there is however making a point. And I am pretty sure I made it, judging by your reaction.

Your post is a textbook definition of whataboutism. Bringing out Senna or any other driver's racing record in a "Schumacher vs Hamilton" debate is nothing but desperation.

[aroutis]

Your post is a textbook definition of whataboutism. Bringing out Senna or any other driver's racing record in a "Schumacher vs Hamilton" debate is nothing but desperation.

No, it's an answer on your point about "But very few got dis-qualified from the championship by trying to intentionally take out a rival."
Which quite honestly is hypocritical.
When we do have the case of Ayrton Senna which was worse than what Michael did and nothing happened.
And that goes to prove what I am telling you but you are blind to the facts of F1.
You 're trying to make a Schumacher / Hamilton comparison which quite honestly is to say the least moot comparison because of the politics of F1.

People try to explain this to you but you fail to listen. There is no whataboutism here.
You can try to understand the premises of F1 or just go your way and go on. Your choice.

[tifosi1993]

No, it's an answer on your point about "But very few got dis-qualified from the championship by trying to intentionally take out a rival."
Which quite honestly is hypocritical.
When we do have the case of Ayrton Senna which was worse than what Michael did and nothing happened.
And that goes to prove what I am telling you but you are blind to the facts of F1.
You 're trying to make a Schumacher / Hamilton comparison which quite honestly is to say the least moot comparison because of the politics of F1.

People try to explain this to you but you fail to listen. There is no whataboutism here.
You can try to understand the premises of F1 or just go your way and go on. Your choice.

Senna and Hamilton are two different people. :roll

Thread title: "Michael Schumacher vs Lewis Hamilton", and I've pretty much kept it on-topic. My posts are quite simple: Skill wise they can't be separated, IMO. But their on track racing mindset and maneuvers are quite different and that's what separate these two. Schumacher's racing career is filled with dangerous driving, cheating allegations (not just fans, but other drivers and teams alleged Schu being a cheat), disqualification from the championship, race weekend etc. Can easily be backed up by facts. Hamilton on the other hand kept it clean, especially compared to Schumacher. He never accused by other drivers of being a lunatic on track or disqualified from the WDC fight. Again can easily be backed up by facts.

The "people" you're speaking of, basically you and two more posters, simply can't gasp this simple fact and had to resort to logical fallacies. Brining Senna/any other driver's racing record into "Schumacher vs Hamilton" debate in an attempt to deflect/defend Schumacher's dangerous driving record is nothing but whataboutism. You're trying to sugarcoat Schumacher's major incidents with Hamilton's minor misdeeds by bringing up Senna's records.

Simply accept this fact: Hamilton was, is and always will be regarded as a more fairer and cleaner Champion than Schumacher. Being hysterical about it, just because Schumacher is your favorite driver, is not going to change this fact. Come back at me when Hamilton get's kicked out from a WDC fight or tried to intentionally take out a WDC rival.

[tifosi1993]

O k I must be wrong imagining 2021 finishing with 8 WDCs and 100+ wins! Mission impossible. And believing Ferrari on a few podiums! For me the races are great.

And people accuse you of being paranoid because you always bring up Rubens/Ferrari team orders. But those same people bring up Senna in a "Schumacher vs Hamilton" debate to justify Schumacher's dangerous driving antics. :lol

Like...yeah, Ok. Senna and Schumacher are equally dangerous but what that got to do with Hamilton. Since the main discussion is about the difference between Schu and Ham, not Senna or any other drivers.

[tpe]

Go ask Senna. The discussion is between Schumacher and Hamilton and I'd stick to it. I don't care about whataboutism or bringing up driver X, Y or Z to defend your favorite driver's dangerous driving record.

If Hamilton tried to kill other drivers on track numerous times or gets thrown out of a WDC fight because he was petulant enough to deliberately crash into his championship rival in order to win the WDC, then sure feel free to come back at me. Otherwise, don't bother. Stick to your whataboutism, see if anyone cares.

I am sorry but the Sanna discussion IS relevant.
Without the 2x Japan incidents, I bet that Schumacher wouldnt take Hill out.

Now, is LH a cleaner driver? I don't think so.
Is he a cleaner champion? Absolutely.

[stefa]

I am sorry but the Sanna discussion IS relevant.
Without the 2x Japan incidents, I bet that Schumacher wouldnt take Hill out.

Now, is LH a cleaner driver? I don't think so.
Is he a cleaner champion? Absolutely.

TBH not that hard, as he has absolute supreme car/engine combo than the rest, and his team mate is there just because rules are saying each team has to have two cars!

[wisepie]

TBH not that hard, as he has absolute supreme car/engine combo than the rest, and his team mate is there just because rules are saying each team has to have two cars!

Agreed, stefa, and can we put an end to this comparison, we all have our opinions but it's now becoming a slanging match.;-)

[SS454]

I am finding with the debate that looks at their accomplishments, there are the Schumacher fans that will discredit Hamilton by saying he's had the best equipment for more of his career (which is 100% true), or even say that he's had F1/FIA in his back pocket, which outside of a few articles is speculation.

Then there is the Hamilton fans that will ignore the facts we can prove, or when the data is balanced as fairly as possible, and quickly jump to Schumacher was a dirty driver. How dirty he was is very opinion based, but I think there is enough evidence to suggest he's a dirtier driver than Hamilton. People like tifosi1993 will claim he has a history of dangerous driving, but can't come up with anything past the 3 or 4 incidents, of which just 1 was actually scary dangerous. These same people fail to recognize any time that Hamilton (or any driver) has made bad judgement in his driving and caused an accident. This could be considered as dangerous driving, but not dirty.

The other point Hamilton fans will jump to is that Schumacher was contractually a #1 driver for most of his career. We know for fact this was the case with Rubens, and pretty certain with Irvine, but do we know for certain it was written into a contract with all other drivers? No we do not. We do know that Schumacher was the #1 driver in his teams, which he deserved as Benetton would have been crazy to give the best equipment or best strategy to Brundle or Herbert, especially when they had a shot to win the championships. Same goes with Irvine or Barrichello at Ferrari. The Hamilton fans will ignore that Lewis Hamilton was given equal status as a Rookie against Alonso would was a 2x defending champion. Alonso had every right to be ****** since he earned the right to have #1 favoritism within the team, since Hamilton hadn't even started a single Grand Prix. Then of course we know McLaren shifted their efforts to Hamilton, instead of Alonso, and yet they both finished with the same amount of points, both losing the WDC. Had McLaren gave Alonso #1 treatment, they would have won the WDC. Of course Hamilton was #1 against Kovelainen. He had equal status against Button and Rosberg, in which he lost to each of them once, but otherwise was easily the better driver. After that, it appears that Hamilton was contractually #1 against Bottas and we have seen Bottas get sacrificed to help Hamilton on several occasions.

[tifosi1993]

I am sorry but the Sanna discussion IS relevant.
Without the 2x Japan incidents, I bet that Schumacher wouldnt take Hill out.

Now, is LH a cleaner driver? I don't think so.
Is he a cleaner champion? Absolutely.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Hamilton is a cleaner champion. But some people here, because of their undying loyalty toward the ex Ferrari-Mercedes driver, have to go on a defensive posture and bring out driver X, Y or Z's racing record to justify Schumacher's dangerous driving record.

[stefa]

Agreed, stefa, and can we put an end to this comparison, we all have our opinions but it's now becoming a slanging match.;-)
:thumb

[Toothlessrage*]

Okay.

No driver in F1 has been fair.
Each driver and team always looks for an unfair advantage.
There aren't any successful teams that don't push the rules for that unfair advantage.

To crucify Schumacher as a cheat is just plain childish.
True, I am not a fan of Hamilton. But, I do respect him as an icon of the sport just like Schumacher.

Anyway, here's a video you guys would probably find interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlOa24FRSeA
In short, it says that Hamilton, Ron Dennis, and his mechanics played games with Alonso as the team as a whole preferred Hamilton as he is a British driver.

If any of you still think Hamilton is a straightforward and innocent individual, feel free to suckle on your pacifier.

[Brembo]

This tread keeps all this off the rest of the forum ! A great idea.

[Redfive]

Okay.

No driver in F1 has been fair.


Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart

[Toothlessrage*]

Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart

How could anyone possibly know if they were fair, let alone you? :|
Man, a successful team (including the driver) always pushes to the extreme to find an advantage.
Unless, their competition is rubbish.

[aroutis]

Senna and Hamilton are two different people. :roll

Thread title: "Michael Schumacher vs Lewis Hamilton", and I've pretty much kept it on-topic. My posts are quite simple: Skill wise they can't be separated, IMO. But their on track racing mindset and maneuvers are quite different and that's what separate these two. Schumacher's racing career is filled with dangerous driving, cheating allegations (not just fans, but other drivers and teams alleged Schu being a cheat), disqualification from the championship, race weekend etc. Can easily be backed up by facts. Hamilton on the other hand kept it clean, especially compared to Schumacher. He never accused by other drivers of being a lunatic on track or disqualified from the WDC fight. Again can easily be backed up by facts.

The "people" you're speaking of, basically you and two more posters, simply can't gasp this simple fact and had to resort to logical fallacies. Brining Senna/any other driver's racing record into "Schumacher vs Hamilton" debate in an attempt to deflect/defend Schumacher's dangerous driving record is nothing but whataboutism. You're trying to sugarcoat Schumacher's major incidents with Hamilton's minor misdeeds by bringing up Senna's records.

Simply accept this fact: Hamilton was, is and always will be regarded as a more fairer and cleaner Champion than Schumacher. Being hysterical about it, just because Schumacher is your favorite driver, is not going to change this fact. Come back at me when Hamilton get's kicked out from a WDC fight or tried to intentionally take out a WDC rival.

When you bring arguments such as
"But very few got dis-qualified from the championship by trying to intentionally take out a rival."
you open up this whole discussion into bringing other drivers into this discussion. Like it or not.
If you don't understand this, this is not my problem. It is you that brought the mess, the moment you brought this argument, you made a mess out of it.

[aroutis]

Okay.

No driver in F1 has been fair.
Each driver and team always looks for an unfair advantage.
There aren't any successful teams that don't push the rules for that unfair advantage.

To crucify Schumacher as a cheat is just plain childish.
True, I am not a fan of Hamilton. But, I do respect him as an icon of the sport just like Schumacher.

Anyway, here's a video you guys would probably find interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlOa24FRSeA
In short, it says that Hamilton, Ron Dennis, and his mechanics played games with Alonso as the team as a whole preferred Hamilton as he is a British driver.

If any of you still think Hamilton is a straightforward and innocent individual, feel free to suckle on your pacifier.

That's an excellent find.
Salutes !

[tifosi1993]

When you bring arguments such as
"But very few got dis-qualified from the championship by trying to intentionally take out a rival."
you open up this whole discussion into bringing other drivers into this discussion. Like it or not.
If you don't understand this, this is not my problem. It is you that brought the mess, the moment you brought this argument, you made a mess out of it.

Making excuses for your whataboutism is not gonna cut it. Schumacher got dis-qualified from the entire 1997 championship, Senna got dis-qualified from one race, so another logical fallacy from your part.

I get it, harsh truths about Schumacher not something you diehard Schumi fans can easily ignore. But it doesn't mean you have to be stubbornly obstructive about it.

Schumacher is one of the dirtiest racer in F1, Hamilton isn't. Not amount of whataboutisms are gonna change this simple fact.

[aroutis]

Schumacher got dis-qualified from the entire 1997 championship, Senna got dis-qualified from one race
Exactly.
That 's exactly what I am pointing out to you. But you're too blind to the fact of the matter. Same severity incidents, different punishments.
Do the math.

And this is why I am not going to go on, because if you don't wish to listen, there is no way for me to make you understand.

Keep talking to the hand. And thank you for making MY case.

[Brembo]

Even without the " Hard Racing " the F-1 records are being demolished by great car tech and great driving of great cars. No need to throw in concrete walls for help to get up front. 2021 !!

[tifosi1993]

Exactly.
That 's exactly what I am pointing out to you. But you're too blind to the fact of the matter. Same severity incidents, different punishments.
Do the math.

And this is why I am not going to go on, because if you don't wish to listen, there is no way for me to make you understand.

Keep talking to the hand. And thank you for making MY case.

Yet more logical fallacy. So Schumacher deliberately turning his wheel in order to take out his WDC rival is pretty much the same offence as Senna-Prost crash where neither driver was willing to back down? Hilarious.

Of course, people with normal functioning brain can easily recognize the difference between these two incidents. That's why there was no outcry of any "injustices" against Schumacher. It's the tiny minority, the ones with the "whole world against my poor ol Schumi" mindset, had problem with it. Probably the work of evil British empire against the innocent German. :rotfl

You've already lost when you had to resort to whataboutism. And next time don't just highlight one sentence, try to quote the whole post. You know, the difference between "Schu and Ham" and the point being, Schumacher is one of the dirtiest racer in history, Hamilton isn't.

[Silent Bob]

Yet more logical fallacy. So Schumacher deliberately turning his wheel in order to take out his WDC rival is pretty much the same offence as Senna-Prost crash where neither driver was willing to back down? Hilarious.

Of course, people with normal functioning brain can easily recognize the difference between these two incidents. That's why there was no outcry of any "injustices" against Schumacher. It's the tiny minority, the ones with the "whole world against my poor ol Schumi" mindset, had problem with it. Probably the work of evil British empire against the innocent German. :rotfl

You've already lost when you had to resort to whataboutism. And next time don't just highlight one sentence, try to quote the whole post. You know, the difference between "Schu and Ham" and the point being, Schumacher is one of the dirtiest racer in history, Hamilton isn't.

But he hasn't had to be for most of his career. He's never had a season like 1997 when his team were so far behind the leading team and slowly came back to challenge for the title just to see a slow puncture give it all away. When he was at McLaren, he made some pretty awful overtaking moves, especially with Massa, that cost us points. But overall he's had it pretty easy the later part of his career and I think he knows he can hang back and not have to tangle with other cars, that's credit to him and his team. But I agree Schumacher has had more incidents.. but no denying his brilliance regardless and the title of this thread is Schumacher vs Hamilton. Overall I think Schumacher has had more brilliant races won on his sheer talent than Hamilton, regardless of his deviances. And yes I am biased, because that was one of my favourite F1 periods, and he was one of my favourite Ferrari drivers.

[aroutis]

I told you already that you were the one that opened that can of worms.
Honestly I am not sure what your beef is with Schumacher , quite honestly, I don't give a damn.
People have all sort of issues with people.
But clearly you have different standards and I have learned long time ago not to try to debate with blind people.

[aroutis]

Overall I think Schumacher has had more brilliant races won on his sheer talent than Hamilton, regardless of his deviances. And yes I am biased, because that was one of my favourite F1 periods, and he was one of my favourite Ferrari drivers.
Quite right. And that stems from the fact that he only had a dominant car for 2002 and 2004.

[tifosi1993]

I told you already that you were the one that opened that can of worms.
Honestly I am not sure what your beef is with Schumacher , quite honestly, I don't give a damn.
People have all sort of issues with people.
But clearly you have different standards and I have learned long time ago not to try to debate with blind people.

More yada yada yada. Posts nothing but whataboutism, brings out Senna-Prost crash and paints it under the same brush as Schumacher's deliberate crash incident of 1997, says doesn't care and then accuses others of being blind. :rotfl

I mean what else can you do? You know very well that Hamilton is, was and always will be the fairer champion. Schumacher was a dirty driver, there was no if's or but's about it.

[stefa]

LH did not have to show his dirt side, as his machinery was way supreme than other. Therefore he was always cruising half a minute in front of second best... What I am trying to say, all these years he did not have real competition, neither in other team let alone his teammate! To summon, it is easy to be nice when there is no pressure!

[SilverSpeed]

LH did not have to show his dirt side, as his machinery was way supreme than other. Therefore he was always cruising half a minute in front of second best... What I am trying to say, all these years he did not have real competition, neither in other team let alone his teammate! To summon, it is easy to be nice when there is no pressure!

My 0.02$ also.

[jgonzalesm6]

LH did not have to show his dirt side, as his machinery was way supreme than other. Therefore he was always cruising half a minute in front of second best... What I am trying to say, all these years he did not have real competition, neither in other team let alone his teammate! To summon, it is easy to be nice when there is no pressure!

2016???? Lewis had 2 run-ins with Rosberg on the track.....and that's about the only competition Lewis has had as a team-mate where Toto did'nt show favoritesm towards any one driver.....unlike with Alonso when it was Lewis and Alonso with Mclaren.

[Silent Bob]

2016???? Lewis had 2 run-ins with Rosberg on the track.....and that's about the only competition Lewis has had as a team-mate where Toto did'nt show favoritesm towards any one driver.....unlike with Alonso when it was Lewis and Alonso with Mclaren.



There you go. Just proved that Hamilton is not that nice when he's got competition. who drives into their team mate twice> That's just dirty.

[jgonzalesm6]

There you go. Just proved that Hamilton is not that nice when he's got competition. who drives into their team mate twice> That's just dirty.

Well, let me break it down for you.

SpanishGP--> Nico took the lead on the opening lap BUT his settings were wrong (whether ERS or wrong mode) and Lewis knew Nico was in the wrong settings because of Nico's rain light kept flashing. Lewis was in the right mode and was going to overtake Nico. The next turn coming up is a right turn and Nico knew he was'nt in the right mode as well as Lewis was going to overtake on the inside right (without DRS) and the inevitable happened....Nico did a Schumi chop and both crashed.

AustrianGP--> Again, Lewis was going to overtake Nico on the outside going into the turn. Lewis ran wide to give Nico some room but Nco ran into the Lewis. Post race interview, Nico said that he was in full wheel lock going into the turn BUT if you look at Nico's on-board he WAS NOT at full wheel lock thereby running into Lewis on the outside....both collided and Nico damaged his front wing and lost places while Lewis won the race.

With regards to the Schumacher vs Lewis and who was a more cleaner driver? IMO, Lewis is the cleaner driver over Schumacher....but that's just my opinion. I've seen Schumacher's tactics and they are very questionable and at times very risky almost putting his competitors in the wall. Schumacher even did it while at Mercedes. I saw a move at COTA 2012 when I was there where Schumacher almost ran his competitor into the wall. I was like jeeeeezus.

[stefa]

Wow!!! :-E
Two times since his debut in 2007! He is so under pressure.....

[Brembo]

Lewis can never come near the hard racing tactics of old. Concrete walls and Veto; #1 preference contracts were really a great help. Todt on the radio! Fast forward to 2021; Sir Lewis has a date with 8th ! It remains to be seen.

[tifosi1993]

"Hamilton has the best car"....and Schumacher was driving frigging Minardi I guess. :rotfl

The whole team was built around Schumacher and rightfully so. He was pounding hundreds of laps in Maranello after each race, the bridgestone was tailored made for him, the cars were designed to suit his driving style and he delivered 5 WDC's on the trot.

But Schumacher never regarded other drivers wellbeing when he was racing with them. He would rather put them on the wall or take them out than being overtaken.

"But Senna did it as well"....but so what, Senna being dirty shouldn't be used as a excuse to justify Schumacher's dirty driving. Hamilton isn't nearly half as dirty as either Schu or Senna was, and he's already more successful.

[Brembo]

Oh ! Remember the T car! Set up just for Michael.

[aroutis]

More yada yada yada. Posts nothing but whataboutism, brings out Senna-Prost crash and paints it under the same brush as Schumacher's deliberate crash incident of 1997, says doesn't care and then accuses others of being blind. :rotfl

I mean what else can you do? You know very well that Hamilton is, was and always will be the fairer champion. Schumacher was a dirty driver, there was no if's or but's about it.

And you keep repeating yourself in vain. :rotfl:wave


"But Senna did it as well"....but so what, Senna being dirty shouldn't be used as a excuse to justify Schumacher's dirty driving.
That was not the argument tho, was it?

[tifosi1993]

And you keep repeating yourself in vain. :rotfl:wave


That was not the argument tho, was it?

I was simply stating your Senna "point". Not my fault if you're suffering from short term memory loss.

That last post wasn't even directed to you. But I guess you can't help yourself.

For a man who doesn't give a damn, you sure like to pock your head like a pipping tom. :rotfl

[Silent Bob]

I feel sorry for Hamilton having to race with a team like Merc that let him down so often. Hopefully the team, like he so publicly stated, can improve. There isn't much else the guy can do, he's perfect

[Silent Bob]

Well, let me break it down for you.

SpanishGP--> Nico took the lead on the opening lap BUT his settings were wrong (whether ERS or wrong mode) and Lewis knew Nico was in the wrong settings because of Nico's rain light kept flashing. Lewis was in the right mode and was going to overtake Nico. The next turn coming up is a right turn and Nico knew he was'nt in the right mode as well as Lewis was going to overtake on the inside right (without DRS) and the inevitable happened....Nico did a Schumi chop and both crashed.

AustrianGP--> Again, Lewis was going to overtake Nico on the outside going into the turn. Lewis ran wide to give Nico some room but Nco ran into the Lewis. Post race interview, Nico said that he was in full wheel lock going into the turn BUT if you look at Nico's on-board he WAS NOT at full wheel lock thereby running into Lewis on the outside....both collided and Nico damaged his front wing and lost places while Lewis won the race.

With regards to the Schumacher vs Lewis and who was a more cleaner driver? IMO, Lewis is the cleaner driver over Schumacher....but that's just my opinion. I've seen Schumacher's tactics and they are very questionable and at times very risky almost putting his competitors in the wall. Schumacher even did it while at Mercedes. I saw a move at COTA 2012 when I was there where Schumacher almost ran his competitor into the wall. I was like jeeeeezus.



Was just a bit of sarcasm, jgonzalesm6. Must be my Canadian coming through.

[SS454]

I feel sorry for Hamilton having to race with a team like Merc that let him down so often. Hopefully the team, like he so publicly stated, can improve. There isn't much else the guy can do, he's perfect

We all know any issues at Mercedes are Bottas' fault.

[Brembo]

We all know any issues at Mercedes are Bottas' fault.

Merc is lucky to be stuck with Bottas as Sir Lewis' team mate . They have to hope he signs up for 2022 also. He has come up with 47 points so far this year adding to his already total 223 points. Throw in 9 wins. The main issue @ Merc with regards to Bottas at fault is their 7WDCs with him along side Sir Lewis' 7 WDCs. Replace him with who ??

[Silent Bob]

A crash test dummy. Would be nearly as fast and more charismatic.

[Brembo]

A crash test dummy. Would be nearly as fast and more charismatic.

Are you referring to the charismatic drivers presently @ Williams , Merc super engine and all can't score not even " 1 Point ? There not even as fast as Haas drivers. Which I hope Mick will do some points by year end. Bottas at least could have jumped out of his car and helped try to remove that tire gun!

[aroutis]

I was simply stating your Senna "point". Not my fault if you're suffering from short term memory loss.

That last post wasn't even directed to you. But I guess you can't help yourself.

For a man who doesn't give a damn, you sure like to pock your head like a pipping tom. :rotfl

Well what can I do, when someone is obviously hating the way you do for reasons unknown, I cannot help myself, I have to have some fun :)

[aroutis]

Are you referring to the charismatic drivers presently @ Williams , Merc super engine and all can't score not even " 1 Point ? There not even as fast as Haas drivers. Which I hope Mick will do some points by year end. Bottas at least could have jumped out of his car and helped try to remove that tire gun!

Here's a puzzle for you.
Williams and Aston Martin have same engine and yet Aston Martin is much faster.
Apart from the drivers, what is different with the cars?

Hint.
Cars need that "something" to encase (among other things) the engine.

Come on, I have faith in you :D

[Brembo]

Apart from the cars I would say that something is better drivers. Encase you haven't noticed ! A windy day is enough to ruin a Williams race. The same wind is with all the drivers and their cars. O K as far as the new team rookies I want to see Mick in the points.

[aroutis]

Apart from the cars I would say that something is better drivers. Encase you haven't noticed ! A windy day is enough to ruin a Williams race. The same wind is with all the drivers and their cars. O K as far as the new team rookies I want to see Mick in the points.

Stop posting when you're drunk, will you?
Your English make little to no sense :P

[Brembo]

Sygno'mi oti' einal elinka' gia me'na !

[Silent Bob]

Sygno'mi oti' einal elinka' gia me'na !


You're english just got worse. You into the hard stuff now?

[wisepie]

You're english just got worse. You into the hard stuff now?

Knowing Brembo, that's Greek Napolitano, I'm surprised anyone can keep up with his inebriated outbursts. Scusami Brembo!;-)

[Brembo]

A lot of the posts here are hard to accept without quick drink before hand. Especially giving up the 2021 season already. Ferrari's 2 poles are no big deal ?? A zero points driver 3 years in his ride is a better driver than Bottas ! Imola's crash between Bottas and Williams driver robbed Bottas of a great finish. His bad tire change pit stop is no excuse for a driver not still be a winner. Time for another quick one! :rotfl

[aroutis]

Sygno'mi oti' einal elinka' gia me'na !
That's greekglish:p
Συγνώμη,ότι είναι Ελληνικά για εμένα (you meant to say) , I think!

[Silent Bob]

A lot of the posts here are hard to accept without quick drink before hand. Especially giving up the 2021 season already. Ferrari's 2 poles are no big deal ?? A zero points driver 3 years in his ride is a better driver than Bottas ! Imola's crash between Bottas and Williams driver robbed Bottas of a great finish. His bad tire change pit stop is no excuse for a driver not still be a winner. Time for another quick one! :rotfl

The fact that he was being passed by the guy in the William's while he was in a Merc just proves they should swap seats.

[aroutis]

The fact that he was being passed by the guy in the William's while he was in a Merc just proves they should swap seats.

Be nice to Brembo.
He is trying to make people laugh.
Even he knows that George will be great in INEOS Mercedes.

[Brembo]

Be nice to Brembo.
He is trying to make people laugh.
Even he knows that George will be great in INEOS Mercedes.

Great for sure! Great for Max and even Charles . Williams may well become the sprint champs ! All the years Bottas has dragged Sir Lewis & Merc down. 1,148 points so far @ Merc. " It's the Car!":rotfl ! His first 3 yrs with Williams; 326 points!! 4yrs. tot. 547 points. Just look at how William's is ruling the zero points teams. :rotfl A good laugh for sure. I can't wait for Mick to get points !

[aroutis]

All the years Bottas has dragged Sir Lewis & Merc down
Lewis is the one making the mistakes, Bottas has been the one underperforming on his own.
Try to understand how it works.

In your mind, when Lewis is doing well, it's all Lewis
When Lewis is not doing well it's the team, it's Bottas, it's someone else.

Actually, it's Lewis!

[aroutis]

Just look at how William's is ruling the zero points teams
Are you serious?
Williams is a donkey of a car, and yet everyone is talking bout how George manages to push it thru Q2 where clearly it does not belong lol

[Brembo]

Are you serious?
Williams is a donkey of a car, and yet everyone is talking bout how George manages to push it thru Q2 where clearly it does not belong lol

The car gets the driver to Q2 . The driver gets the car to bring in the points come race time. That Williams car is always doing good in Quali. It's race time that the zeros come in. I agree with you as far as 98 wins 100 poles and 7 WDCs ; actually it's Sir Lewis. Meanwhile back at Ferrari there's hope for podiums !

[Nick Singer]

You would never see Schuey dressed like a complete ****-clown - unlike Hamilton, who regularly looks an utter goon. The vile green-soled wellies are just the latest in a long catalogue of 'dressing like a Richard Head'..

No doubt about HAM's driving skills but, Schumacher versus Hamilton is man versus woke celebrity..

[stefa]

You would never see Schuey dressed like a complete ****-clown - unlike Hamilton, who regularly looks an utter goon. The vile green-soled wellies are just the latest in a long catalogue of 'dressing like a Richard Head'..

No doubt about HAM's driving skills but, Schumacher versus Hamilton is man versus woke celebrity..

BRAVO!!! You nailed it!!!!

[wisepie]

BRAVO!!! You nailed it!!!!

+1, and hasn't this argument gone on for long enough, even for Brembo.:-E

[Brembo]

Great memories!!

[KimiBot]

A lot of the posts here are hard to accept without quick drink before hand. Especially giving up the 2021 season already. Ferrari's 2 poles are no big deal ?? A zero points driver 3 years in his ride is a better driver than Bottas ! Imola's crash between Bottas and Williams driver robbed Bottas of a great finish. His bad tire change pit stop is no excuse for a driver not still be a winner. Time for another quick one! :rotfl

Okay, that explains a lot, I mean that drinking. :-D