Bahrain 2021: Post Race Analysis

[SS454]

Getting the first race in the books shined some more light on true performances of the cars, but also brings more questions.

Mercedes, surprise surprise they win again. But it wasn't without a fight and that's what most have been at least hoping for. I have to say I think Hamilton showed why he is a 7 time world champion today. Brilliant performance by him. I do think Mercedes has more outright pace than it appears, especially in the race. The Mercedes powered cars seem to have little trouble overtaking on the straights. I feel they are still the most fuel efficient engine's on the grid by some margin. The undercut by Hamilton on lap 14, his outlap on hard tires was something like 2.9 seconds faster than Verstappen on not badly worn mediums. That's ridiculous. Bottas 5.0 seems to be a downgrade.

Red Bull appear to be the fastest car overall. Honda has really good power. Fighting for track position and making Mercedes respond to them may be a better direction. I do like the differing strategies though. Sergio Perez was very impressive. A great recovery drive that has to give the team confidence.

McLaren's race performance is where many expected, including myself. Currently appear to be the 3rd best car, however the gap to 1st/2nd is greater than I hoped.

Ferrari had a strong race. A definite improvement in pace over last season, however the finishing positions may not be all that much better. Sainz is a definite upgrade over Vettel. He was up and down during the race and finished only 8 seconds behind Leclerc. Job well done by both drivers. The power unit still seems to be a clunker in race trim unfortunately.

AlphaTauri, give a hand to Yuki for scoring his first points in his first race. But where was the rest of their pace. I know Gasly destroyed his front wing from the love tap with Ricciardo, but what happened to him afterwards? From qualifying it looked as if they would be battling with McLaren, but their race pace wasn't really there... at least not today.

Aston Martin did have better race pace than qualifying. Points for Stroll seems like a good result, but their pace overall is not that strong. They seem to be 7th or 8th fastest car right now which is pretty embarrassing. It's also embarrassing hearing Otmar complaining how the rules hurt their low rake car, but didn't affect the high rake cars at all. News flash, but their car used to be high rake until they bought the 2019 Mercedes chassis and then somehow copied a lot of Mercedes' 2021 design elements as well. Beyond an embarrassment is Seb Vettel crashing into Ocon and then blaming him for moving when it was 100% Vettel's fault.

Alfa Romeo did really really well. If only they were a little bit fastest, they would be in the hunt for points each weekend. Instead they will be the vultures than collect points as the faster cars DNF.

Alpine, not much to say about the car performance. I doubt they ever get out of that 6-8th best team range. Alonso had flashes of brilliance, but then at other times dropped like a rock. He DNF'd with supposed issues, but who knows. Everyone will focus on Alonso, but I could see Ocon putting in some amazing performances that come out of nowhere.

Williams are still along way off from points.

Haas are paying the price with rookie drivers in a car that the team pretty much doesn't give a crap about. The car may be like the 2019 Williams, a distant ways off of the second worst car, but neither Schumacher or Mazepin are as good as Russell to make a difference. Mazepin is quickly showing how awful he is. 2 spins in Qualifying and a self inflected crash out of the race in just 3 corners. Shameful.


Lastly I must critique the FIA/Stewards. Last season the track limit rule meant warnings and penalties and it worked reasonably well, they just didn't enforce it enough. Now for Bahrain 2021 they put track limits in effect for qualifying which is great, but then say they wont look at it during the race for some strange reason. Lewis and Mercedes of course exploit this and admit to going outside the track limits for the entire first half of the race gaining who knows how much time, and then once Red Bull start doing it, the stewards step in and say it's not okay. Funny that in the end the track limits would be one of the deciding factors in the races results. I don't blame the drivers at all, it's the FIA/Stewards than need to be crystal clear about what the track limits are and enforce them strictly.

Looking forward to the next race already.

[Brembo]

As soon as the flag came down, I knew Lewis won.

[Ferrarichamp]

I think mercedes already have the constructor's title in the bag.
The question is can Max beat Lewis. Sometimes Ham has a bit of a slow start to the season, but now he's already won the first race, RB Honda and Max are going to have to produce something special to win.

[Riccardog]

@ http://www.thescuderia.net/forums/member.php/1635-SS454, perfect analysis of the race, and especially the INCOMPETENCE of the FIA / Stewards outright favoritism... I said in 2014 that Mercedes cheated when they colluded with FIA on the engine specs for F1 hybrid era, and to date the results are as expected, total merc dominance, and bullying tactics to all and sundry who try and buck the trend.
The cost capping and engine freeze are there to ensure status quo, not for the better show or to allow lesser teams to perform better, currently only williams and haas are minnows in the bigger pool of engine manufacturers, and where has these rules helped them? to the back of the grid you go.
My simple answer to F1 and the powers that be has been, to cancel my sky subscription, so going forward you thieving *******s will NOT enjoy my money on a scam that you perverse further with commentary by 2 very biased and disgusting commentators.

[Toothlessrage*]

I think mercedes already have the constructor's title in the bag.
The question is can Max beat Lewis. Sometimes Ham has a bit of a slow start to the season, but now he's already won the first race, RB Honda and Max are going to have to produce something special to win.

I think the WCC will fall to RBR this year for sure, if RBR don't eff up with Perez. Unfortunately, WDC to close to call.

[aroutis]

If the track limits were enforced, I don't see how Merc would win.
So with that in mind, this race shows that right now RBR has the fastest car. If Merc feels the need to cheat so blatantly (29 times, not even one warning by the stewards, FIA ?), that only shows they're under pressure.
Good news.

[Jax]

If the track limits were enforced, I don't see how Merc would win.
So with that in mind, this race shows that right now RBR has the fastest car. If Merc feels the need to cheat so blatantly (29 times, not even one warning by the stewards, FIA ?), that only shows they're under pressure.
Good news.

Relax, it was not cheating, this was not enforced during the race. Even Lecrec said so when asked after the race ... we can all hate on them, it's fine. But this was not cheating ... they played by the rules everyone else could have done the same

[SS454]

Relax, it was not cheating, this was not enforced during the race. Even Lecrec said so when asked after the race ... we can all hate on them, it's fine. But this was not cheating ... they played by the rules everyone else could have done the same

I agree he didn't cheat. The stupid decision to not enforce track limits is the fault of the FIA/Stewards.

However it appeared that it wasn't until Red Bull told Max to start going past track limits that the Stewards decided it was not longer ok. Even IF that is a bit strange, Hamilton still didn't cheat.

[jgonzalesm6]

Relax, it was not cheating, this was not enforced during the race. Even Lecrec said so when asked after the race ... we can all hate on them, it's fine. But this was not cheating ... they played by the rules everyone else could have done the same


I agree he didn't cheat. The stupid decision to not enforce track limits is the fault of the FIA/Stewards.

However it appeared that it wasn't until Red Bull told Max to start going past track limits that the Stewards decided it was not longer ok. Even IF that is a bit strange, Hamilton still didn't cheat.

agreed. The FIA (Masi) mucked-up the track limit decision mid-way thru the race. It is either or.....not this grey area

another video of the same action on T4 with 2 different drivers.....and yet nothing from race control or the FIA.

https://twitter.com/thomasmaheronf1/status/1376538728571797510

[Greig]

agreed. The FIA (Masi) mucked-up the track limit decision mid-way thru the race. It is either or.....not this grey area

another video of the same action on T4 with 2 different drivers.....and yet nothing from race control or the FIA.

https://twitter.com/thomasmaheronf1/status/1376538728571797510

Maybe because he never overtook him while off the track.

[jgonzalesm6]

Maybe because he never overtook him while off the track.

errrm, yes he did. Ocon gained an advantage off the track then overtook Yuki.

[Greig]

errrm, yes he did. Ocon gained an advantage off the track then overtook Yuki.

He never overtook him while being off track, he passed him on track. That is the difference.

[jgonzalesm6]

He never overtook him while being off track, he passed him on track. That is the difference.

OMG....Ocon was wheel-to-wheel OFF THE TRACK with Yuki and then overtook Yuki by getting on the track.

[Greig]

OMG....Ocon was wheel-to-wheel OFF THE TRACK with Yuki and then overtook Yuki by getting on the track.

No

[Brembo]

Merc gave up the 99th pole to R Bull to make fans tune in for the race. They messed up Bottas' pit to keep fans attention . Then.... at the very end they took what they knew they would get; that #96. For me it worked! The race was great to watch. That 1st race for Sainz in his Ferrari will pay off big with his feel for the car. Podiums on the way. And Charles will do all he can to keep things close between them points wise.

[FerrariF60]

Merc gave up the 99th pole to R Bull to make fans tune in for the race. They messed up Bottas' pit to keep fans attention . Then.... at the very end they took what they knew they would get; that #96. For me it worked! The race was great to watch. That 1st race for Sainz in his Ferrari will pay off big with his feel for the car. Podiums on the way. And Charles will do all he can to keep things close between them points wise.

so you think it's all fixed for the sake of keeping fans entertained adn glued to the TV??????

i personally think that the speed of red bull honda is REAL.....and that Merc have no answer to it....at least not for now.....

[Brembo]

so you think it's all fixed for the sake of keeping fans entertained adn glued to the TV??????

i personally think that the speed of red bull honda is REAL.....and that Merc have no answer to it....at least not for now.....

I also believe Honda's speed and Max's driving are real for sure. Merc answer to it was they won the race! Max sure as hell did not move over for Merc. Giving up that 99th pole for fan entertainment worked. No way Merc were also going to give up the win and they didn't. Tire strategy is really something Merc has going fore them. I believe Ferrari will see the podium soon ! 2021 !!! Not 2022 !! :rotfl Have faith !

[ntukza]

Maybe because he never overtook him while off the track.

Overtaking off track shouldn't be an issue here. The issue is that it was okay to go off track at Turn 4 for half the race, and then magically it was no longer okay. At some point in the race both LH and Max were suddenly not allowed to go off track during their laps and it had nothing to do with overtaking.

[enjaybel3]

They go about track limits the wrong way IMO. They should let them race and make the track punish them for going off where they don't want them going off.

[TTRSMAD]

I wonder what was the reason for the awful race pace of Leclerc compared to Sainz? I was looking at the lap times and if Sainz was starting 4th he would of finished in front of Norris. This track might not have suited the Ferrari's well maybe imola is going to be better.

[KimiBot]

I wonder what was the reason for the awful race pace of Leclerc compared to Sainz? I was looking at the lap times and if Sainz was starting 4th he would of finished in front of Norris. This track might not have suited the Ferrari's well maybe imola is going to be better.

Charles tunes up his car more to quali pace than race pace, he gets better track position, and then fights to keep that position whole race.
It is a clever thing to do, I think.

[Brembo]

Charles tunes up his car more to quali pace than race pace, he gets better track position, and then fights to keep that position whole race.
It is a clever thing to do, I think.

Once Charles feels the car is good enough I believe he will tune up for the podium. I don't think Carlos is thinking anything but podium! I believe both are capable. The question " Is the car capable?

[ntukza]

I got the impression that Carlos had better race pace. Rather surprising.

[aroutis]

Relax, it was not cheating, this was not enforced during the race. Even Lecrec said so when asked after the race ... we can all hate on them, it's fine. But this was not cheating ... they played by the rules everyone else could have done the same

Fine.However, if you observe, you'll notice that mercedes were going over the kerbs way easier than the RBR, which makes me wonder, why was this change , not allowing this during Qualifying,but allowing during the race; who benefitted (yes, rhetorical question, it was Mercedes , clearly).
And simply put, why did the stewards allowed , no, asked for this change, if not to benefit Mercedes? What was the reasoning?

It was stupid of RBR not to complain earlier. And imo , something must be done so this never to be happen again.

[aroutis]

Merc gave up the 99th pole to R Bull to make fans tune in for the race. They messed up Bottas' pit to keep fans attention . Then.... at the very end they took what they knew they would get; that #96. For me it worked! The race was great to watch. That 1st race for Sainz in his Ferrari will pay off big with his feel for the car. Podiums on the way. And Charles will do all he can to keep things close between them points wise.

No. Just No.

[jgonzalesm6]

Lewis gaining a timed and tire adavantage for leaving track limits 29 times.

Max gaining an advantage by leaving the track and overtaking Lewis....giving the position back to Lewis.

Ocon leaving the track and gaining an advantage and then overtaking Yuki.



Why were track limits so inconsistent in the Bahrain Grand Prix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRmhaUPIg0&t=347s

[ferrari1.8t]

Lewis gaining a timed and tire adavantage for leaving track limits 29 times.

Max gaining an advantage by leaving the track and overtaking Lewis....giving the position back to Lewis.

Ocon leaving the track and gaining an advantage and then overtaking Yuki.



Why were track limits so inconsistent in the Bahrain Grand Prix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRmhaUPIg0&t=347s

Everyone makes mistakes, especially referees, stewards etc. My guess is they weren't enforcing the turn 4 limits, Red Bull saw that that Hamilton was gaining so much time and complained. The stewards changed the rule mid race to compensate rather than give Ham a penalty and Red Bull ultimately shot themselves in the foot. I still believe Hamilton should have been penalized for gaining an advantage. I also agree with Verstappen that he should have kept the position and pulled away. Then they could have fought/appealed any penalty post race on the basis that Hamilton was let off 29 times.

Anyway, the most important part of the video was how to enforce it in the future and make it easy for fans and drivers - enforce the white lines! Easy and simple lol.

[The Hajj]

If they really want to enforce track limits - PUT UP BARRIERS
That will eliminate all this childish bickering among the teams and fans. F1 is acting like professional wrestling with these ridiculous drama queen plots.
This is what happens when weaklings take control of an entity. Rule by consensus, not logic. Decisions made on emotion, not fact.

[Silent Bob]

agree. Track limits should be hard limits, not 3 chances. If you go off the track like at turn 4, automatic time added to lap, .5 to 1 sec.

[Ferrarichamp]

changing the rules in the middle of the race...
but F1 is the 'pinnacle of motorsport' :lol

[jgonzalesm6]

Everyone makes mistakes, especially referees, stewards etc. My guess is they weren't enforcing the turn 4 limits, Red Bull saw that that Hamilton was gaining so much time and complained. The stewards changed the rule mid race to compensate rather than give Ham a penalty and Red Bull ultimately shot themselves in the foot. I still believe Hamilton should have been penalized for gaining an advantage. I also agree with Verstappen that he should have kept the position and pulled away. Then they could have fought/appealed any penalty post race on the basis that Hamilton was let off 29 times.

Anyway, the most important part of the video was how to enforce it in the future and make it easy for fans and drivers - enforce the white lines! Easy and simple lol.


If they really want to enforce track limits - PUT UP BARRIERS
That will eliminate all this childish bickering among the teams and fans. F1 is acting like professional wrestling with these ridiculous drama queen plots.
This is what happens when weaklings take control of an entity. Rule by consensus, not logic. Decisions made on emotion, not fact.


agree. Track limits should be hard limits, not 3 chances. If you go off the track like at turn 4, automatic time added to lap, .5 to 1 sec.


I've seen the FIA put up kerbs and sensor wires so drivers stay within track limits.....like overnight.


changing the rules in the middle of the race...
but F1 is the 'pinnacle of motorsport' :lol

yep, it's a head scratcher that's for sure. Qualifying, they were strick on track limits. During the race, not so much. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!:roll

[jgonzalesm6]

So Bottas got the fastest lap and extra point.....right. So exceeding track limits to get the fastest lap and extra point counts then at T4???:roll

https://twitter.com/thomasmaheronf1/status/1377275809686257671/photo/1

[Greig]

Lewis gaining a timed and tire adavantage for leaving track limits 29 times.

Max gaining an advantage by leaving the track and overtaking Lewis....giving the position back to Lewis.

Ocon leaving the track and gaining an advantage and then overtaking Yuki.



Why were track limits so inconsistent in the Bahrain Grand Prix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRmhaUPIg0&t=347s


How many times did Max go over at turn 4, or every other driver?

[Greig]

changing the rules in the middle of the race...
but F1 is the 'pinnacle of motorsport' :lol


https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.masi-insists-track-limits-rules-were-clear-despite-hamilton-verstappen.2r9Ob5q4GJMmUkQFbwuHDU.html

[Ferrarichamp]

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.masi-insists-track-limits-rules-were-clear-despite-hamilton-verstappen.2r9Ob5q4GJMmUkQFbwuHDU.html

not very convincing is it? :-D

[jgonzalesm6]

How many times did Max go over at turn 4, or every other driver?


I don't know....but it was'nt 29 times.


https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.masi-insists-track-limits-rules-were-clear-despite-hamilton-verstappen.2r9Ob5q4GJMmUkQFbwuHDU.html

Look, track limits should have been enforced like the way it was in qualifying....however it was'nt during the race. When a driver exceeds track limits, regardless of the situation, they gain an advantage by:

1.) tire wear
2.) time advantage

Exceeding track limits 29 times gave Lewis a 5 to 6 sec total time advantage as well as a tire preservation advantage.

[jgonzalesm6]

not very convincing is it? :-D

no it is not.

[Greig]

I don't know....but it was'nt 29 times.

How do you know, if you don't know?

[Greig]

Exceeding track limits 29 times gave Lewis a 5 to 6 sec total time advantage as well as a tire preservation advantage.

Max was doing it as well though but you just don't know how much, so you can't make that claim :-)

[jgonzalesm6]

How do you know, if you don't know?


Max was doing it as well though but you just don't know how much, so you can't make that claim :-)

Well, the FIA told Mercedes that Lewis must obey track limits or he will get a black and white flag.

Nothing was told to RedBull about a black and white Flag.

[Greig]

Well, the FIA told Mercedes that Lewis must obey track limits or he will get a black and white flag.

Nothing was told to RedBull about a black and white Flag.

You told me the FIA never said that though in the race thread lol.. but Max was doing it as well so do we know how many times?

[jgonzalesm6]

You told me the FIA never said that though in the race thread lol.. but Max was doing it as well so do we know how many times?

I don't remember telling you the FIA did'nt tell Mercedes about track limits.

As some point during the race, the FIA told Mercedes about track limits.

There is nothing that I have seen of Max or anyone else abusing track limits 29 times.

[Greig]

Well you sure did and you also said most drivers ran wide at turn 4 and that the limits were not enforced.....

[jgonzalesm6]

Well you sure did and you also said most drivers ran wide at turn 4 and that the limits were not enforced.....

I don't believe so. Track limits were not enforced UP TO a certain point in the race when they were enforced.

[Greig]

I don't believe so. Track limits were not enforced UP TO a certain point in the race when they were enforced.


Track limits were enforced during Qualifying. During the race, they were not.....and most drivers were exceeding track limits at T4.

The issue is Max gaining an advantage will passing Lewis by exceeding track limits at T4....which he did and gave the position back to Lewis.

It is what is is. I don't agree with it as track limits should always be enforced.....especially at T4. Why the FIA did'nt put sensors there is beyond me.

Still 22 races to go.


The FIA did'nt tell Mercedes to stop doing it.....Mercedes told Lewis to stop doing it.

Just leave this here...

[jgonzalesm6]

Just leave this here...

Well, that was a day after the race.

Since then, more news have developed.

[jgonzalesm6]

A Deep Dive Into Turn Four's Track Limits | Jolyon Palmer Analysis | 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1zR74ijo7U

[ntukza]

Lewis gaining a timed and tire adavantage for leaving track limits 29 times.

Max gaining an advantage by leaving the track and overtaking Lewis....giving the position back to Lewis.

Ocon leaving the track and gaining an advantage and then overtaking Yuki.



Why were track limits so inconsistent in the Bahrain Grand Prix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRmhaUPIg0&t=347s

I'm sorry but the stewards messed up. As for Michael Masi's explanation, why then did they only rein LH in once RB had made the decision to do the same?

As far as I could tell, RB did not complain to the stewards about LH, they simply told their driver to do the same. The stewards should have just stayed out of it and let Max continue to do the same since the racing notes allow it and LH had been doing it the whole time. It's the fact that the stewards jumped in and disallowed the action MID-RACE (after allowing LH to do it for half the race) that made a mess of the situation.

As for Max's overtake, that's pretty straightforward. It's not allowed. Regardless of whether drivers were permitted to leave the track when running alone, overtaking is a different and straightforward story.

[ferrari1.8t]

I'm sorry but the stewards messed up. As for Michael Masi's explanation, why then did they only rein LH in once RB had made the decision to do the same?

As far as I could tell, RB did not complain to the stewards about LH, they simply told their driver to do the same. The stewards should have just stayed out of it and let Max continue to do the same since the racing notes allow it and LH had been doing it the whole time. It's the fact that the stewards jumped in and disallowed the action MID-RACE (after allowing LH to do it for half the race) that made a mess of the situation.

As for Max's overtake, that's pretty straightforward. It's not allowed. Regardless of whether drivers were permitted to leave the track when running alone, overtaking is a different and straightforward story.

Norris seems to think otherwise. He breaks down his point in the video.

Norris: Max completed Hamilton overtake on track

https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verstappen-lewis-hamilton-bahrain-overtake/

[Silent Bob]

That's where the track limits non enforcement becomes a problem. Drivers are going off track every lap then doesnt that area count as part of the track? Verstappen passed Hamiltln using the same amount of track that the drivers were using all race up until FIA said not to.

[MSC Fan]

I love how Karma is getting served for RedBull. Those fools laughed at us and made a mockery out of us for giving out wrong calls during moments of pressure. Now, the first thing they do when they have a car capable for competing for a WDC is literally steal a defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Tifoso Svedese]

In general I'm not a fan of not allowing cars to go to the exterior of a corner to gather speed since it makes the lap longer. The track limits nonsense is just like VAR in football, needlessly complicating things that don't need to be.

The rule should basically be "don't take the p-" like the 2019 Austin IndyCar race where they went five metres wide every lap in the penultimate corner. Those places should just get gravel traps to disincentivize that. Bahrain T4 though... that is a garbage rule for that and Parabolica. The advantage of running wide in those corners are so minor it doesn't really do anything. If it's that big of an issue, just put gravel there.

[ntukza]

Norris seems to think otherwise. He breaks down his point in the video.

Norris: Max completed Hamilton overtake on track

https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verstappen-lewis-hamilton-bahrain-overtake/

I couldn't watch Norris' video because it's way too long and I couldn't luck my way into skipping to the point where he talks about this, but I did watch the highlights and I see what he means. We must still consider though that while Max completed the overtake before running wide, the same line and speed he took through the corner that allowed him to make the pass also made him go wide. So if he had reined his car in to avoid going off he might not have been able to make the pass.

[ntukza]

That's where the track limits non enforcement becomes a problem. Drivers are going off track every lap then doesnt that area count as part of the track? Verstappen passed Hamiltln using the same amount of track that the drivers were using all race up until FIA said not to.

Yeah the whole thing was just badly done. The racing note effectively says going wide is permitted as long as the driver doesn't gain a lasting advantage. How bad is that wording?! The rule writers should really know better.

[jgonzalesm6]

The advantage of running wide in those corners are so minor it doesn't really do anything. If it's that big of an issue, just put gravel there.

In Lewis's case, exceeding track limits 29 times does have 2 advantages.

1) tyre preservation

2) time advantage....Lewis gained 5 to 6 seconds total.

Had track limits been enforced during the race, it's possible Max would have had an opportunity of overtaking Lewis BEFORE T4....quite possibly on the straight. Max had the faster car at Bahrain.

[Greig]

In Lewis's case, exceeding track limits 29 times does have 2 advantages.

1) tyre preservation

2) time advantage....Lewis gained 5 to 6 seconds total.

Had track limits been enforced during the race, it's possible Max would have had an opportunity of overtaking Lewis BEFORE T4....quite possibly on the straight. Max had the faster car at Bahrain.

What's the evidence for the tyre wear and time gained, and does it also account for how much time Max gained from doing the same thing?

[jgonzalesm6]

What's the evidence for the tyre wear and time gained, and does it also account for how much time Max gained from doing the same thing?

Tyre wear - going from an abrasive track to a non-abrasive part of the track by exceeding track limits.

Time gained - taking a longer racing line by exceeding track limits at a greater speed....not much...but greater than keeping 2 wheels within the lines.

Max - did'nt exceed track limits 29 times or 21 times. Nothing has said as to the amount of times Max exceeded track limits.

[Greig]

Tyre wear - going from an abrasive track to a non-abrasive part of the track by exceeding track limits.

Time gained - taking a longer racing line by exceeding track limits at a greater speed....not much...but greater than keeping 2 wheels within the lines.

Max - did'nt exceed track limits 29 times or 21 times. Nothing has said as to the amount of times Max exceeded track limits.

So what's the evidence other than just you saying it? Max ran wide also you don't know how many times so how much tyre wear did he save and time?

Why is outside of the white lines not abrasive? do they use different tarmac? Would coming back on over the kerbs not cause tyre wear? How have you worked out 5 to 6 seconds time gained, what is this based on?

Have you just made this up?

[jgonzalesm6]

So what's the evidence other than just you saying it? Max ran wide also you don't know how many times so how much tyre wear did he save and time?

Why is outside of the white lines not abrasive? do they use different tarmac? Would coming back on over the kerbs not cause tyre wear? How have you worked out 5 to 6 seconds time gained, what is this based on?

Have you just made this up?

Did'nt Max overtake Lewis on exceeding track limits thereby carrying greater speed?? Yes, the tarmac is different outside the white lines. It's not as abrasive. Most drivers go over one side of their car over the kerbs at various tracks and there has been no inconsistencies with one side of the car having more wear than the other....OTHER than more left handed corners than right handed corners.

It's been estimated at T4, exceeding track limits gave the driver 2/10's time advantage each time. So 2/10's multiplied by 29 times is 5.8sec.

[Tifoso Svedese]

It's been estimated at T4, exceeding track limits gave the driver 2/10's time advantage each time. So 2/10's multiplied by 29 times is 5.8sec.

Well, 2 tenths is a stretch even running off Ascari at Monza, so I can't see why that would be the case in Bahrain. Maybe half a tenth on a normal lap.

[jgonzalesm6]

The race winner downplayed any advantage he may have gained by consistently running wide at Turn 4 – suggesting that he actually helped his tyres when he stopped doing it

"There's a two-tenth advantage using that part of the circuit, so they did it lap after lap. The race director then asked them to respect the limits, otherwise they'd get a black and white flag."

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/how-track-limits-became-the-talk-of-the-bahrain-gp/5969994/

[jgonzalesm6]

Well, 2 tenths is a stretch even running off Ascari at Monza, so I can't see why that would be the case in Bahrain. Maybe half a tenth on a normal lap.

Read above post and article.

[Greig]

Did'nt Max overtake Lewis on exceeding track limits thereby carrying greater speed?? Yes, the tarmac is different outside the white lines. It's not as abrasive. Most drivers go over one side of their car over the kerbs at various tracks and there has been no inconsistencies with one side of the car having more wear than the other....OTHER than more left handed corners than right handed corners.

It's been estimated at T4, exceeding track limits gave the driver 2/10's time advantage each time. So 2/10's multiplied by 29 times is 5.8sec.

Tarmac is just the same over the white lines.....they could repaint those lines anytime they wanted to change the corner profile.....

So now tell us how many times Max gained 0.2 by running wide? do you know yet?

[jgonzalesm6]

Tarmac is just the same over the white lines.....they could repaint those lines anytime they wanted to change the corner profile.....

How do you know. You've been to Bahrain F1 track at Sakhir. Where's the proof that says othewise??


So now tell us how many times Max gained 0.2 by running wide? do you know yet?

I have'nt seen anything on how many times Max gained by running ......nor on any other driver with the exception of Lewis.

[Greig]

How do you know. You've been to Bahrain F1 track at Sakhir. Where's the proof that says othewise??



I have'nt seen anything on how many times Max gained by running ......nor on any other driver with the exception of Lewis.

How do you know? it's pretty obvious its the same tarmac with a white line painted on it for goodness sake lol....do you think they just tarmac it to the edge of the white line and stop and start with a different tarmac?

So unless we know how many times Max done it then we can't say anything about how much time Lewis may or may not have gained over Max can we.

[jgonzalesm6]

How do you know? it's pretty obvious its the same tarmac with a white line painted on it for goodness sake lol....do you think they just tarmac it to the edge of the white line and stop and start with a different tarmac?

So unless we know how many times Max done it then we can't say anything about how much time Lewis may or may not have gained over Max can we.

Regarding the tarmac, when they repave it your saying they repave beyond the white line (where drivers exceed track limits) then and not just the track only??

I've only seen tracks being repaved ...not the run-offs where it is smooth also.

Regarding Max, no we can't really say other than Lewis and the info that is out there. I never said it was definite but possible.

[Greig]

Have you been to the track and compared the track before and after the while line?

Saying it stopped tyre wear is just made up anyway no matter what tarmac is before or after the white line.

[jgonzalesm6]

Have you been to the track and compared the track before and after the while line?

Saying it stopped tyre wear is just made up anyway no matter what tarmac is before or after the white line.

Fast forward to 16:16 when someone asks about track limits. Max answers and Lewis answers. Lewis mentioned by going off track limits, it saved his tires.

F1 2021 Bahrain GP - Post-Race Press Conference (HAM, VER, BOT)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE93JsoGrA4&t=1014s

[Silent Bob]

Letting the car run naturally wide does save on tire wear and does save time. Not drivers fault. This was FIA. Period. Drivers only would go over limits if it's an advantage and running wide in some corners straightens out the corner and you dont scrub as much speed as taking corner legally.

[jgonzalesm6]

Letting the car run naturally wide does save on tire wear and does save time. Not drivers fault. This was FIA. Period. Drivers only would go over limits if it's an advantage and running wide in some corners straightens out the corner and you dont scrub as much speed as taking corner legally.

+1

[jgonzalesm6]

Helmut Marko revealed in an interview with "Formel1de" that Red Bull had to reduce power [during the race] because of temperature problems. Despite that, Max was still able to catch up.

When asked about the issues with Honda engines, Helmut Marko said: "The problems we had were primarily software related. Nothing in the hardware, so things that you can fix with adjustments."


Full interview in German (no translation)

Helmut Marko exklusiv: So sehr leidet er mit Vettel, so toll läuft's bei Red Bull! | Interview F1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0fFvo6_OPk

[FF1]

Just wondering why didn't we manage to make a pu as powerful or more powerful than mercs with 1 year in hand and no freeze or restrictions. I am sure 1 year is enough to redesign a new engine? Any ideas on that

[aroutis]

Max was doing it as well though but you just don't know how much, so you can't make that claim :-)

Actually when Max was first contacted by RBR to do it, he angrily replied to pitwall that he is not supposed to do this and what the **** are they telling him to do.
It was then the whole saga started about asking Merc to stop this and so on. Did he do it eventually, probably, did he do it 29 times like Lewis (yes, there is a video counting the times so he did it 29 times)? No.

Is it FIA's stupidity that caused this? Oh yes.

[kshitijmalkan]

The Fia need to stop this

The rules should be simple, the inside edge of the wheel should not be allowed to exceed the outside edge of the white line. Irrespective of the corner/straight/session.

The whole sage seems to have been their own doing by allowing drivers to exceed the track limits at the corner at various sessions.

There is enough GPS tech to penalise drivers with lowering engine output when conditions are met.

This will ensure drivers stick between the white lines.

[330 p4]

Just wondering why didn't we manage to make a pu as powerful or more powerful than mercs with 1 year in hand and no freeze or restrictions. I am sure 1 year is enough to redesign a new engine? Any ideas on that

If anyone knows the answer keep it to yourself and negotiate with Ferrari to head up their engine department for a 7 figure retainer.

[FF1]

If anyone knows the answer keep it to yourself and negotiate with Ferrari to head up their engine department for a 7 figure retainer.

haha good one. on a serious note, Ferrari need to have a winning attitude. When there is no restriction to the engine development and since the engines are going to remain the same for 3-4 years, they should have made an engine that recovered all the lost HP and also gain some more knowing the competition will gain as well. For a team like Ferrari, 1 year should be more than enough to have the best PU . If Merc and Honda can do it, Ferrari can do it as well. Everyone is hoping for 2022, but whats the guarantee that other teams wont be up there as well and if for some reason Ferrari wont be the top team in 2022, will they start focusing on 2025? No matter the regulations and how often it changes, Ferrari should always try and innovate and be the top team every season. If there is a will there is away

[Brembo]

Now that the Turn 4 GP International Circuit race is in the past I hope our drivers are really looking forward to Imola . Ferrari is not banned from a podium!! Our drivers will fight with what they have.

[330 p4]

haha good one. on a serious note, Ferrari need to have a winning attitude. When there is no restriction to the engine development and since the engines are going to remain the same for 3-4 years, they should have made an engine that recovered all the lost HP and also gain some more knowing the competition will gain as well. For a team like Ferrari, 1 year should be more than enough to have the best PU . If Merc and Honda can do it, Ferrari can do it as well. Everyone is hoping for 2022, but whats the guarantee that other teams wont be up there as well and if for some reason Ferrari wont be the top team in 2022, will they start focusing on 2025? No matter the regulations and how often it changes, Ferrari should always try and innovate and be the top team every season. If there is a will there is away

As good as Ferrari are so are the others. At the top level in anything when others have a head start it's not so simple as to catch up in a small time span, in this case 1 year. Rumours for next year is a change in engine concept. Gains must be large in theory to risk this.

[Brembo]

The year 2025 can wait, this Sun. April 11th.. .Imola !! Charles and Carlos racing each other for WCC points should be great. Who knows? Maybe even a podium. Binotto needs to stop talking about the next years as Ferrari's only chances. Just today Apr. 8th in an interview Binotto stated that there's no chance at least in the next 3 or 4 races for any hope for a podium. Perez won his 1st race from 18th place to the win! He also should not push Mick's 2023 debut in that coveted Ferrari seat. That would mean one of our drivers has to go. Not very encouraging for current boys to say the least. That's down force on their future.

[Silent Bob]

Think race is next week Brembo.

[Brembo]

Think race is next week Brembo.

Yes, you are right. April 18th not this coming week end.; the next. I just wanted to see if you are paying attention! :rotfl It can't come soon enough!