Mercedes engine trick

[tpe]

I am surprised no one mentioned it.
So, there a rumour that RB lodged a request for clarification regarding Mercedes engine.
What is more interesting is that according to this rumour, Ferrari is also involved but stays silent!

I would love to see the outcome of this...

[patrese86]

I posted about it in the Hamilton whining about his car thread.

I'm hoping something comes of it. Let's see.

[Toothlessrage*]

There are rumors going about that Sauber is planning an engine partnership with Mercedes, while taking in Bottas.
If this is true, I have a feeling that Williams will be looking into a new engine supplier.

[tifosi1993]

If Mercedes is indeed doing something clever then I've zero problem with it. When Ferrari pushed the boundaries in 2019 with the PU, I had zero problems with Maranello's approach and will applaud them if they do something clever with the upcoming powertrain upgrades.

There are no cheaters in F1, only winners and losers. Those who push the boundaries will always get their reward.

[FerrariF60]

There are rumors going about that Sauber is planning an engine partnership with Mercedes, while taking in Bottas.
If this is true, I have a feeling that Williams will be looking into a new engine supplier.

williams Ferrari maybe???

[Toothlessrage*]

williams Ferrari maybe???

I think Williams is probably looking to take in a new engine supplier (Audi/Porsche)?

[wisepie]

Sauber have history with Mercedes from their past, but the thought of an Alfa Romeo-branded Sauber with a Merc engine is a step too far for me. Kimi retiring and the rumour that GIO is out of a drive makes me wonder what else is going on behind the scenes. Sauber may not be happy when they realise that Ferrari have the best engine in 2022....well, we can dream.:-E

[SS454]

From the sounds of it, it's all on how Mercedes cool the air through the intercooler. They claim up to 20 hp advantage. What doesn't make sense is that this advantage would only be present at lower speeds. If Mercedes is using an air to air intercooler, then the benefits should always be present. In fact it should be better as airflow increases with speed.

I would think acceleration has more to do with ERS deployment or the turbocharger.

[wisepie]

From the sounds of it, it's all on how Mercedes cool the air through the intercooler. They claim up to 20 hp advantage. What doesn't make sense is that this advantage would only be present at lower speeds. If Mercedes is using an air to air intercooler, then the benefits should always be present. In fact it should be better as airflow increases with speed.

I would think acceleration has more to do with ERS deployment or the turbocharger.

Fair point, but let's hope it gets investigated thoroughly, nothing would please me more than seeing Merc's advantage prove 'illegal'.

[aroutis]

Re: the whole Merc-Alfa thing, Merc has already topped their allocation.
As far as I know, they cannot get another team, and if I am correct even if FIA were to allow it, the teams (at least the constructors) would need to sign off.
So I cannot see how this would work out, unless if Ferrari were to switch Alfa for another team of their liking.
And if they were to do so, I don't see why they would keep their Alfa branding to Sauber (if I remember correctly, it's part of the deal for Sauber to keep using their engines).

[Tifoso Svedese]

They would have to throw Williams out and then convince them to take the Ferrari engine for that even to be a theoretical possibility. Considering the 2022 cars are already being designed to fit the next engine it seems to be a non-starter.

What was really pathetic was to sell off the second Alfa seat so that Ferrari no longer controls it. Having Giovinazzi there is a waste of time but we should still be able to get Mick in there and Ilott into the Haas car rather than getting outmanouvred for revolving door Albon/de Vries signings. In effect guys that are too old to ever get a top seat from a bottom team and are just wasting everybody's time. I don't think Albon is cut out for F1 considering how absurdly bad he did at Red Bull.

That being said considering Albon is racing a Ferrari in DTM right now there might be a deal to connect him to the Ferrari family perhaps with a view at racing for us at Le Mans at which level he, on the other hand, would be fabulous signing.

The more drivers in the range of Albon/Hülkenberg/Giovinazzi/Wehrlein/Kvyat/Ilott/Shwarzman are secured for the hypercar project the better. They should be all over it.

[wisepie]

Your view of Giovinazzi is a little scathing, in my opinion, he has shown that he can do the job if he has a competitive car but his strategies have been poor and he has lost out on results as a consequence. I also can't get my head around Williams ever taking a Ferrari power unit. Who's to say Mick would be any better than Giovinazzi? Albon is doing a good job in the DTM with Ferrari, and I agree that the more talent you suggest for Ferrari's return to the WEC/Hypercar series would be welcome.

[330 p4]

Fair point, but let's hope it gets investigated thoroughly, nothing would please me more than seeing Merc's advantage prove 'illegal'.

I understand the design is perfectly legal but it's the way the engine is operated in relation to the temp sensors in the plenum. They do it in such a way as to trick the sensors into reading a higher temp than what's really there for small bursts out of corners. May explain the huge speed they were getting out the corner before the old pit straight at Silverstone.

Tricking sensors.... although not the same solution is what Ferrari were accused of and Red Bulls flexi wing was tricking tests. Of course as this is Merc even if banned some will say it's just jealous rivals hanging up on Mercs innovation.

[kshitijmalkan]

I dont see Sauber giving up on Ferrari's/Fiat/AR partnership at all! They get a title sponsor as a cake, Engine as icing and a driver or two.... as the cherry on top!

If there is any significant political games it's probably to get Ferrari to bring over Mick ASAP and have his wages etc paid for.

But to throw a spanner in the works... If Sauber is truly unhappy, why not ping over to RBR for their exclusive engines? The current gen Honda engine looks to be as good as any... surely wolf will not throw his beloved Williams or Aston Martin teams out of an engine supply deal.

And in that case, Ferrari can make a bid to outright purchase Alpine. I do belive if the price is right, Alpine will walk away and recover their losses in F1. They are the inbetweeners in the current crowd. Clearly lack a vision and purpose in F1.

Some may ask, why not rescue Haas. The issue with Haas is, they are already customers and with Mazepin looking more control, Ferrari will only have less of it in that tussle. Mazepin + Haas will only end in one way, Gene Haas will bow down to the money and accept the shaft or sell. Ferrari will not want to play that game.

In this scenario, the new Uralkali F1 team may purchase a Ferrari or RBR engine. But Ferrari retain a more important and reliable partner in the proxy votes. If the partnership with Uralkali continues, even better, another proxy vote in the bag. Another tester

All in all, my suggestion is to keep Sauber "happy" and to ensure Haas/Uralkali think twice before moving to Merc/ RBR, Ferrari should make a bid to buy out Alpine, maybe rebrand it as Abarth Ferrari F1/Mazeratti F1/ Lancia Ferrari F1.

Benefits include marketing for Fiat brand, access to more Phillip Morris sponsorship mullah, gain more testing milage, a closer testing partnership, redeploy the part of the Scud who are potentially seeing lay offs, offset costs of developing the new wind tunnels over 2 teams, bring in more FDA drivers, offset cost of development of listed parts, etc. This will be a Pink Mercedes situation on Steroid!!!!

The most important benefit is, the next time Horner and Wolff whistle to their pet FIA, there will be much more internal resistance to investigate and **** off a 2 team owner and potentially a 4 team supplier, aka the new boss in town, aka Scuderia Ferrari.

I cam see such a move massively pissing off Wolff, added perk!

[Warp]

Frédéric Vasseur was very annoyed by those stupid rumors. It wouldn't be technically possible to switch engine suppliers at this stage of development of next years cars.

Source : https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/1433776697598414850?s=20

[paolo lalli]

Mercedes engine trick,has tones of the ferrari engine saga. Perfectly legal but and its the but that is going to cause issues for mercedes as it did for ferrari.The only hold up is to see weather the Fia actually do any thing about it at all,this time its horner and binotto who are spearheading the questions and the legality of the mercedes engine and its cooling,and how more HP is generated.Lets see what happens.?

[ferrari1.8t]

Binotto discussed Mercedes engine ‘trick’ with Horner

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mattia-binotto-mercedes-plenum-legality/

It looks like Binotto discussed the trick with Horner. It is very upsetting to read that they haven't confronted the FIA about it yet. I like how Binotto mentioned the fact that this is getting nowhere near the media attention as Ferrari did with their engine.

[stefa]

Binotto discussed Mercedes engine ‘trick’ with Horner

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mattia-binotto-mercedes-plenum-legality/

It looks like Binotto discussed the trick with Horner. It is very upsetting to read that they haven't confronted the FIA about it yet. I like how Binotto mentioned the fact that this is getting nowhere near the media attention as Ferrari did with their engine.

Because obviously they don't have any power, influence or what ever to do it!

[FerrariF60]

Because obviously they don't have any power, influence or what ever to do it!

thats because Merc OWNS the FIA......sad but true....
even if it will be found illegal, Merc will still be allowed to run it for the remainder of the year....just lik DAS was....of course, FOR THE GOOD OF THE SPORT......or whatever takes for 2 chains to surpass Michael;s records.....SAD BUT TRUE

[aroutis]

even if it will be found illegal, Merc will still be allowed to run it for the remainder of the year....
and the excuse will be that it will be too expensive to change this.

Oh the irony... lol

[SilverSpeed]

Haha, yeah more clowns there...