Carlos Sainz #55

[stasera]

https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/drivers/carlos-sainz/_jcr_content/image.img.1920.medium.jpg/1646818866749.jpg

https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/drivers/carlos-sainz/_jcr_content/helmet.img.png/1646824857015.png


Team Ferrari
Country Spain
Podiums 12
Points 669.5
Grands Prix entered 152
World Championships N/A
Highest race finish 1 (x1)
Highest grid position 1
Date of birth 01/09/1994
Place of birth Madrid, Spain

[ferrari1.8t]

#2 Driver.

[stasera]

Today, he had some misfortunes. But the good thing is that he finds himself. he was not fast enough. but he's been accelerating since the last few races. if he can be like his days at mclaren we can slapp RB easly

[Riccardog]

don't like, did not want in the team, and spanish money seems to be dictating team strategies SADLY. Hope it does not last. PLEASE replace him with MS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wisepie]

Not on the same level as Charles and as long as there isn't a Spanish/Italian divide in the team, I will support him as a Ferrari driver. I was sorry for his DNF in Austria, nothing he could do and it could have been either car.

[Brembo]

With 1, 2 points coming in each race due to no team orders Ferrari is and will be the WCC ! Either driver with a WDC would be an added gift!!

[FerrariF60]

With 1, 2 points coming in each race due to no team orders Ferrari is and will be the WCC ! Either driver with a WDC would be an added gift!!

with our PU reliability issues we have this year, it'll be hard to us to clinch either of the championships me thinks.....but it ain't over till the fat lady sings, NO???

in any case, even if we had NO reliability issues, Ferrari would have to back ONE of the drivers till the end of season, because if they would take points off each other, Maxipad would cruise to his second WDC....just sayin...

[Brembo]

with our PU reliability issues we have this year, it'll be hard to us to clinch either of the championships me thinks.....but it ain't over till the fat lady sings, NO???

in any case, even if we had NO reliability issues, Ferrari would have to back ONE of the drivers till the end of season, because if they would take points off each other, Maxipad would cruise to his second WDC....just sayin...

Back and forth 1,2 2,1 between Charles and Carlos equals the same points at the end of a race, but.... we get to see some exciting raicng between them. And the enemies have to settle for 3rd and less place wise! I hope!

[pericoloso]

don't like, did not want in the team, and spanish money seems to be dictating team strategies SADLY. Hope it does not last. PLEASE replace him with MS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Too many haters on this forum. Who needs trolls?

There are many reasons why Ferrari signed Sainz and extended his contract. Deal with it.

Sainz beat Leclerc on his first year at Ferrari. This year his has double the amount of DNFs as Leclerc yet he has more podiums. Many people are demanding that Sainz be made the default #2 driver even though there are 11 races to go and anything can happen.

If Leclerc were to suffer 2 more DNFs to match Sainz, then it would be very possible for Sainz to match or even surpass Leclerc on points but many of you seem to have developed a hate for Sainz, for whatever reason, and so you constantly express negative, infantile and unfounded comments/insults towards this Ferrari driver…

It seems to me that you are on this forum just because of a driver not because of the team…

I haven’t posted anything on this forum for many years because, frankly, there is too much fluff and very little constructive content. Stop criticizing the team. Behavior like that would not get you into ANY professional team, whether it’s in sports, business, technology, etc.

And why are you also criticizing sponsors? Is there anything wrong with Spanish companies willing to invest in Ferrari? Why don’t you criticize Monegasque sponsors also? Are there any?

[Brembo]

Too many haters on this forum. Who needs trolls?

There are many reasons why Ferrari signed Sainz and extended his contract. Deal with it.

Sainz beat Leclerc on his first year at Ferrari. This year his has double the amount of DNFs as Leclerc yet he has more podiums. Many people are demanding that Sainz be made the default #2 driver even though there are 11 races to go and anything can happen.

If Leclerc were to suffer 2 more DNFs to match Sainz, then it would be very possible for Sainz to match or even surpass Leclerc on points but many of you seem to have developed a hate for Sainz, for whatever reason, and so you constantly express negative, infantile and unfounded comments/insults towards this Ferrari driver…

It seems to me that you are on this forum just because of a driver not because of the team…

I haven’t posted anything on this forum for many years because, frankly, there is too much fluff and very little constructive content. Stop criticizing the team. Behavior like that would not get you into ANY professional team, whether it’s in sports, business, technology, etc.

And why are you also criticizing sponsors? Is there anything wrong with Spanish companies willing to invest in Ferrari? Why don’t you criticize Monegasque sponsors also? Are there any?

Perfectly said! Every word!

[FerrariF60]

Too many haters on this forum. Who needs trolls?

There are many reasons why Ferrari signed Sainz and extended his contract. Deal with it.

Sainz beat Leclerc on his first year at Ferrari. This year his has double the amount of DNFs as Leclerc yet he has more podiums. Many people are demanding that Sainz be made the default #2 driver even though there are 11 races to go and anything can happen.

If Leclerc were to suffer 2 more DNFs to match Sainz, then it would be very possible for Sainz to match or even surpass Leclerc on points but many of you seem to have developed a hate for Sainz, for whatever reason, and so you constantly express negative, infantile and unfounded comments/insults towards this Ferrari driver…

It seems to me that you are on this forum just because of a driver not because of the team…

I haven’t posted anything on this forum for many years because, frankly, there is too much fluff and very little constructive content. Stop criticizing the team. Behavior like that would not get you into ANY professional team, whether it’s in sports, business, technology, etc.

And why are you also criticizing sponsors? Is there anything wrong with Spanish companies willing to invest in Ferrari? Why don’t you criticize Monegasque sponsors also? Are there any?

YOU'RE dellusional.....if Leclerc were to have 2 more DNF's.....then the WDC would most likely be Maxipad's.....he would have a HUGE lead in points.....Sainz would have NO chance at all....

teh driver that can take teh fight to Max.....IS Chalres....its all coming down to how reliable our DONKEY of an engine would be for the rest of teh season....unless they fix something pretty soon

get your head out of your a $ $ for once, will ya!!!

[Tifoso Svedese]

It's quite rare that you have a second driver capable of nailing runner-up spot in the championship with the best car, let alone having two guys squabble at it when you have an even car with someone else.

Besides the rare occurrence of Mercedes being completely dominant and Rosberg being nearly as good as Hamilton, it's just very seldom happening.

We had Rubens in '02 and '04 and then Mercedes had Bottas in '19 and '20. Those are the only 1-2 championship finishes outside of the HAM-ROS rivalry in the past 30 years. So, Webber got no title runner-ups and Bottas just two. In spite of completely dominant cars. In that sense Carlos is doing an okay job. I believe he's getting nearer the car's limit than those guys did. He would've scored more wins than Bottas in the '17-'21 Mercedes cars for sure. Purely based on him being more adaptable as a driver during a stint whereas Bottas has just one gear. The issue is that the Q3 mistake and the race day off in Melbourne just killed off the self-confidence he had and before you knew it he started sending it into the gravel trap or the wall every weekend. Once he came back from that bad spell it was already too late and Charles has proven beyond any doubt that he's got the mentality to be the team leader.

The thing about Carlos is that he's got the ability to win a few races per season in the right car, but at the moment we don't have the necessary equipment to allow him to do any squabbling. We all know he's going to be the second best in the team. He's still above average on the grid but with a rival as strong as we have his competitive spirit has to be reined in a bit. That's all really.

[pericoloso]

YOU'RE dellusional.....if Leclerc were to have 2 more DNF's.....then the WDC would most likely be Maxipad's.....he would have a HUGE lead in points.....Sainz would have NO chance at all....

teh driver that can take teh fight to Max.....IS Chalres....its all coming down to how reliable our DONKEY of an engine would be for the rest of teh season....unless they fix something pretty soon

get your head out of your a $ $ for once, will ya!!!

Thank you for proving my point…

BTW. I never said Sainz would win the WDC If Leclerc had 2 more DNFs.

[Gilles]

Too many haters on this forum. Who needs trolls?

There are many reasons why Ferrari signed Sainz and extended his contract. Deal with it.

Sainz beat Leclerc on his first year at Ferrari. This year his has double the amount of DNFs as Leclerc yet he has more podiums. Many people are demanding that Sainz be made the default #2 driver even though there are 11 races to go and anything can happen.

If Leclerc were to suffer 2 more DNFs to match Sainz, then it would be very possible for Sainz to match or even surpass Leclerc on points but many of you seem to have developed a hate for Sainz, for whatever reason, and so you constantly express negative, infantile and unfounded comments/insults towards this Ferrari driver…

It seems to me that you are on this forum just because of a driver not because of the team…

I haven’t posted anything on this forum for many years because, frankly, there is too much fluff and very little constructive content. Stop criticizing the team. Behavior like that would not get you into ANY professional team, whether it’s in sports, business, technology, etc.

And why are you also criticizing sponsors? Is there anything wrong with Spanish companies willing to invest in Ferrari? Why don’t you criticize Monegasque sponsors also? Are there any?

I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but some of what you said questions me :
Are you related to Brembo?

[Brembo]

Thank you for proving my point…

BTW. I never said Sainz would win the WDC If Leclerc had 2 more DNFs.


I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but some of what you said questions me :
Are you related to Brembo?

Related to me because you looked up the Italian meaning of "Pericoloso" ! Is that why you asked? :rotfl

[stasera]

he was fast as hell:clap

[Portago]

I could not be more in agreement with Pericoloso

Carlos beat Charles fair and square in 2021, in his first year at Ferrari.

So why should Charles be automatically granted 1st driver status?

[Brembo]

I could not be more in agreement with Pericoloso

Carlos beat Charles fair and square in 2021, in his first year at Ferrari.

So why should Charles be automatically granted 1st driver status?

Todos saben porque; pero no dice porque! :rotfl Look at Carlos and Charles as equal and all will go well. There's no counting #1 points and having to add a " Yea but what if! " :rotfl

[Portago]

Todos saben porque; pero no dice porque! :rotfl Look at Carlos and Charles as equal and all will go well. There's no counting #1 points and having to add a " Yea but what if! " :rotfl

It's very simple. The goal in F1 is to earn points and finish with the maximum of them at the end of the season. Sainz beat Lecrerc fair and square in 2021, and that's that. Let's see how the season ends goes before we appoint a Number One in the team...

[wisepie]

It's very simple. The goal in F1 is to earn points and finish with the maximum of them at the end of the season. Sainz beat Lecrerc fair and square in 2021, and that's that. Let's see how the season ends goes before we appoint a Number One in the team...

With due respect to Carlos, he did not beat Charles fair and square last year, but did have less mechanical issues and more podiums, plus Charles had one DNS and some very unfortunate strategies/bad luck. But I am happy that we have two drivers to fight for the points in equal measure.

[Brembo]

Very well said Wisepie ! Drivers fight for the points in equal measures! Neither driver should have to hear "Let him pass" on the radio.

[Portago]

With due respect to Carlos, he did not beat Charles fair and square last year, but did have less mechanical issues and more podiums, plus Charles had one DNS and some very unfortunate strategies/bad luck. But I am happy that we have two drivers to fight for the points in equal measure.

Of course. Leclerc ended with less points because he had very bad luck and Carlos did not.

Come one. Grow up.

The point system is there to decide who is better and that's the one who gets more points.

[stasera]

he is incredibly fast lastly, not even faster than Lec, he is faster than Maxipad too

[wisepie]

Of course. Leclerc ended with less points because he hads very bad luck and Carlos did not.

Come one. Grow up.

The point system is there to decide who is better and that's the one who gets more points.

You admit the reason for Carlos having more points at season's end, so what's your problem. I stated the truth in the first place and you agreed about bad luck for Charles last year, so why do I need to grow up?:roll

[Portago]

You admit the reason for Carlos having more points at season's end, so what's your problem. I stated the truth in the first place and you agreed about bad luck for Charles last year, so why do I need to grow up?:roll

It was ironic, dude.


Of course. Leclerc ended with less points because he hads very bad luck and Carlos did not.

You definitely need to grow up. Grown ups understand irony. You obvioulsy don't.

[Gilles]

It was ironic, dude.



You definitely need to grow up. Grown ups understand irony. You obvioulsy don't.


Carlos is not at the level of Charles, that’s all, and Hungary has shown it again, as every race this year
You might wish Charles was Spanish, but he’s not, Carlos is as strong as Fernando, but he’s not
How dramatic is that?
Kwow one thing: Wisepie deserves respect

[Portago]

Carlos is not at the level of Charles, that’s all, and Hungary has shown it again, as every race this year
You might wish Charles was Spanish, but he’s not, Carlos is as strong as Fernando, but he’s not
How dramatic is that?
Kwow one thing: Wisepie deserves respect

It does not matter whether Charles is Spanish or not. He was beaten in 2021 by Carlos on points awarded on their performance on the track.

This year, as ever, I will decide who is the better of the two based on the points earned at the end of the season. Lecrerc is looking better, but only just. He is too prone to make mistakes under pressure, IMO.

As to Wisepie, respect is earned, not granted...

[Gilles]

Charles lost the car by pushing a lot, but even that is not certain, Mercedes asks the Fia to check the Ferrari throttle, because they think it was not responding to the driver because it is illegal
From the beginning of the season, Charles had many great battles with Max
Carlos went straight on the gravel in no time the first time he was in the lead, when he saw Max in his mirrors!
Preasure, did you say?

[Brembo]

Carlos is for sure right up there with any driver you name. And maybe better. A top reliable car for sure would help!!

[Portago]

Carlos is for sure right up there with any driver you name. And maybe better. A top reliable car for sure would help!!


Let the points at the end of the season decide who is better

[Greig]

Let the points at the end of the season decide who is better

Pace decides who is better, and it's Charles.

[Gilles]

From ScuderiaFerrarifans:
"Plastic bag stuck on Carlos Sainz’s F1-75 car could explain poor pace in last stint of Hungarian GP"

Hummm....
I wonder why he was already slow the first two?
https://media.istockphoto.com/id/481209531/fr/photo/homme-avec-sac-en-plastique-au-dessus-de-sa-t%C3%AAte.webp?s=612x612&w=is&k=20&c=KW287GIkSG_6dEi4L6C5t85AaX4wHylh_uhPAtc6JaA=
Sorry, i like this one

[Riccardog]

:lol

[wisepie]

Carlos is not at the level of Charles, that’s all, and Hungary has shown it again, as every race this year
You might wish Charles was Spanish, but he’s not, Carlos is as strong as Fernando, but he’s not
How dramatic is that?
Kwow one thing: Wisepie deserves respect

Merci beaucoup Gilles, don't know what I have said to deserve Portago's ironic remarks! Hardly worth replying to, je crois!

[Portago]

Pace decides who is better, and it's Charles.

Hahahahaha.... For a moment I thought that it was the points that decided who is better, but this fourm in its immense knowledge is proving me wrong.

You can have pace in one race and screw it totally in the next, as CL does as of late... It's the points at the end of the season that counts.

[Greig]

Hahahahaha.... For a moment I thought that it was the points that decided who is better, but this fourm in its immense knowledge is proving me wrong.

You can have pace in one race and screw it totally in the next, as CL does as of late... It's the points at the end of the season that counts.

Will still be Charles if we correctly say the car DNF's and strategy blunders are not his fault....

[Portago]

Will still be Charles if we correctly say the car DNF's and strategy blunders are not his fault....

Of course.

And IF my granma had balls she would be my grandad

Ifs don't count. Everybody has excuses. Points is what counts

Let's talk at the end of the season, shall we?

[Gilles]

Merci beaucoup Gilles, don't know what I have said to deserve Portago's ironic remarks! Hardly worth replying to, je crois!

Je t'en prie.
Je crois que nous avons là un phénomène, un de plus...

[Gilles]

Will still be Charles if we correctly say the car DNF's and strategy blunders are not his fault....

It's not necessary to be an engineer to understand:
Sainz won at Sylverstone, so he was better than Charles
Why can't you understand that?

[aroutis]

Of course.

And IF my granma had balls she would be my grandad

Ifs don't count. Everybody has excuses. Points is what counts

Let's talk at the end of the season, shall we?

You are right , everyone has excuses. Do we really want to start listing the excuses Carlos made this year for his failures?
Don't get me wrong, I like Carlos, but fact of the matter is, there is a certain pattern this year.
When he manages not to bin the car, (granted, it's finally been a while!), when he's racing in front of Charles, Charles catches up to him and here we go again :
Charles pushes him to go faster
Carlos just can't go faster cause Charles is faster than him
Charles talks to the pitwall, asking about what it's gonna be
Either pitwall tells Carlos he has 2 laps to go faster or concede position, or lo and behold, he needs to pit.
After pits, the magic happens and he's behind Charles.

Listen, between two drivers , they cannot both be exactly fast; in this case Charles is the faster. No shame in it.

[jgonzalesm6]

It's very simple. The goal in F1 is to earn points and finish with the maximum of them at the end of the season. Sainz beat Lecrerc fair and square in 2021, and that's that. Let's see how the season ends goes before we appoint a Number One in the team...


Of course. Leclerc ended with less points because he had very bad luck and Carlos did not.

Come one. Grow up.

The point system is there to decide who is better and that's the one who gets more points.


It was ironic, dude.



You definitely need to grow up. Grown ups understand irony. You obvioulsy don't.


It does not matter whether Charles is Spanish or not. He was beaten in 2021 by Carlos on points awarded on their performance on the track.

This year, as ever, I will decide who is the better of the two based on the points earned at the end of the season. Lecrerc is looking better, but only just. He is too prone to make mistakes under pressure, IMO.

As to Wisepie, respect is earned, not granted...


Let the points at the end of the season decide who is better


Hahahahaha.... For a moment I thought that it was the points that decided who is better, but this fourm in its immense knowledge is proving me wrong.

You can have pace in one race and screw it totally in the next, as CL does as of late... It's the points at the end of the season that counts.


Of course.

And IF my granma had balls she would be my grandad

Ifs don't count. Everybody has excuses. Points is what counts

Let's talk at the end of the season, shall we?

Do you think DNF's play an integral part in the championship title or "who's the better team-mate?" Yes or No please.

[Brembo]

I believe @ Ferrari it's Carlos and Mick with a happy $$ Santander. Charles wrecking Seb ended there. Not better not worse; Charles met his match with Carlos.

[jgonzalesm6]

Charles met his match with Carlos.


You realize Leclerc is beating Sainz in points after 13 races given the DNF's, pit strategy errors, and driver errors. Sainz is no where Leclerc in race pace......let alone qualifying.

[Gilles]

You realize Leclerc is beating Sainz in points after 13 races given the DNF's, pit strategy errors, and driver errors. Sainz is no where Leclerc in race pace......let alone qualifying.

You seriously want to bring back to reason and Portago and Brembo?
Good luck!

[jgonzalesm6]

You seriously want to bring back to reason and Portago and Brembo?
Good luck!

I'm bored and no F1 for a month. I thought I might entertain myself.:-)

[Brembo]

I'm bored and no F1 for a month. I thought I might entertain myself.:-)

That's a good reason!:rotfl I just hope Ferrari doesn't put Carlos car on fire again or any other DNF ! Carlos ; Mick & Santander be the future! $$$$ at least a million Michael fans are waiting.

[stasera]

Will still be Charles if we correctly say the car DNF's and strategy blunders are not his fault....

yes, but what if the team steals his points?? i dont even talk about dnf s which are related to the car issues.

just remember british gp, monaco and hungary. three victories thrown away by the team. and he ended up with 5th not even second

at least 75 points thrown away by the team. and more than that, some problems in his car. like azerbaijan, spain etc.

and at least 40 points his mistakes in imola and france this is the least part of the losing points

[aroutis]

You realize Leclerc is beating Sainz in points after 13 races given the DNF's, pit strategy errors, and driver errors. Sainz is no where Leclerc in race pace......let alone qualifying.

Just ignore the troll. The less people talk to it, (not him, it), the more the chances it will go away.

[Brembo]

Just ignore the troll. The less people talk to it, (not him, it), the more the chances it will go away.

You need to practice what you preach!:rotfl Charles and Carlos are equal as far as able together to get Ferrari the WCC with points. Telling everyone you can to ignore the troll applies to you too!! Even with just 7 WDCs Lewis is the G O A T! So far. Trolling not intended!

[jgonzalesm6]

You need to practice what you preach!:rotfl Charles and Carlos are equal as far as able together to get Ferrari the WCC with points. Telling everyone you can to ignore the troll applies to you too!! Even with just 7 WDCs Lewis is the G O A T! So far. Trolling not intended!

There is no GOAT in F1.

[Brembo]

There is no GOAT in F1.

O K with me. I just got caught up with some of the past posts using that term over and over by some fans. The most successful driver so far is more correct. The GOAT F-1 era was with the Grid Girls!

[aroutis]

O K with me. I just got caught up with some of the past posts using that term over and over by some fans. The most successful driver so far is more correct. The GOAT F-1 era was with the Grid Girls!

IF you want to claim there is a GOAT , there is a very interesting web site which applies scientific methods trying to analyze data and not just preferences.
https://f1-analysis.com/2022/05/31/who-is-the-f1-goat/

It's a huge read so to cut things short this is the final list after several extrapolations explained within the link:

1) Juan Manuel Fangio
2) Alain Prost
3) Michael Schumacher
4) Fernando Alonso
5) Alberto Ascari
6) Jim Clark
7) Ayrton Senna
8) Max Verstappen
9) Niki Lauda
10) Nelson Piquet
11) Lewis Hamilton
12) Sebastian Vettel
13) Stirling Moss
14) Jackie Stewart
15) Jack Brabham

To me this is a very sensible list.


Conclusions
-The model generally thinks there is 1 dominant driver at any given time in F1 history, although occasionally there are crossover points or times where there isn’t such a driver.

-Drivers considered the best of their era are: Fangio, (Moss,) Clark, Lauda, Prost, (Senna), Schumacher, Alonso and Verstappen.

-Whilst it’s Alonso, rather than Hamilton or Vettel that is considered the best driver for the majority of the last 20 years, both #44 and #5 are thought of as well above average drivers. This is true both in their era and across F1 history.

-Verstappen is currently considered the best driver in F1, but his ranking within F1’s hierarchy of all-time greats is still fluctuating. It is also possible that another driver (e.g. Leclerc, Norris or Russell) could provide a consistent challenge in the coming years.

-The model considers the F1 grid to be getting stronger over time. This is true for the best drivers of the era and the top half of the grid as a whole.

-Not adjusting for this fact leaves Max Verstappen as the greatest F1 driver of all time.

-Adjusting for the grid increasing in strength leaves Fangio and Prost as the 2 best drivers given the era that they drove in.

[Brembo]

I'm happy to see 5 possible drivers with a chance for one of them to win the race on Sundays. There's no for sure winner which makes the races terrific start to finish. I believe that a driver when in his 40 s is not too old to keep driving.

[MSC Fan]

It does not matter whether Charles is Spanish or not. He was beaten in 2021 by Carlos on points awarded on their performance on the track.

This year, as ever, I will decide who is the better of the two based on the points earned at the end of the season. Lecrerc is looking better, but only just. He is too prone to make mistakes under pressure, IMO.

As to Wisepie, respect is earned, not granted...

If you are going to do that, why even bother watching the sport? Just keep looking at the standings.

[MSC Fan]

I'm happy to see 5 possible drivers with a chance for one of them to win the race on Sundays. There's no for sure winner which makes the races terrific start to finish. I believe that a driver when in his 40 s is not too old to keep driving.

Who's the 5th one? Only Ferrari and Red Bull have the pace to win.

[MSC Fan]

IF you want to claim there is a GOAT , there is a very interesting web site which applies scientific methods trying to analyze data and not just preferences.
https://f1-analysis.com/2022/05/31/who-is-the-f1-goat/

It's a huge read so to cut things short this is the final list after several extrapolations explained within the link:

1) Juan Manuel Fangio
2) Alain Prost
3) Michael Schumacher
4) Fernando Alonso
5) Alberto Ascari
6) Jim Clark
7) Ayrton Senna
8) Max Verstappen
9) Niki Lauda
10) Nelson Piquet
11) Lewis Hamilton
12) Sebastian Vettel
13) Stirling Moss
14) Jackie Stewart
15) Jack Brabham

To me this is a very sensible list.

Would it even be fair to compare the different eras from Fangio to Michael to the current drivers? I skimmed through the article you posted but I couldn't find a part that said it takes into account both of it. Regardless, for me, Michael Schumacher is the unapologetic GOAT of Formula 1 and it wouldn't matter to me if someone else comes along to win more races or championships but I'm a heavily biased guy so there's that.

[aroutis]

Would it even be fair to compare the different eras from Fangio to Michael to the current drivers? I skimmed through the article you posted but I couldn't find a part that said it takes into account both of it. Regardless, for me, Michael Schumacher is the unapologetic GOAT of Formula 1 and it wouldn't matter to me if someone else comes along to win more races or championships but I'm a heavily biased guy so there's that.

The mathematical model does not just take into account the victories and so forth; if that was the case Lewis would be #1, but lo and behold, the GOAT for a certain web site troll, is just #11 (!)
Why is that is explained in the website, but in a nutsell it has to do with pretty much what has been said over the years, strong car equals strong performances.
Also, allow me to quote something again :


Conclusions
-The model generally thinks there is 1 dominant driver at any given time in F1 history, although occasionally there are crossover points or times where there isn’t such a driver.

-Drivers considered the best of their era are: Fangio, (Moss,) Clark, Lauda, Prost, (Senna), Schumacher, Alonso and Verstappen.

-Whilst it’s Alonso, rather than Hamilton or Vettel that is considered the best driver for the majority of the last 20 years, both #44 and #5 are thought of as well above average drivers. This is true both in their era and across F1 history.

-Verstappen is currently considered the best driver in F1, but his ranking within F1’s hierarchy of all-time greats is still fluctuating. It is also possible that another driver (e.g. Leclerc, Norris or Russell) could provide a consistent challenge in the coming years.

-The model considers the F1 grid to be getting stronger over time. This is true for the best drivers of the era and the top half of the grid as a whole.

-Not adjusting for this fact leaves Max Verstappen as the greatest F1 driver of all time.

-Adjusting for the grid increasing in strength leaves Fangio and Prost as the 2 best drivers given the era that they drove in.
In short, the reason (IMO) that JMF and Alain are #1 and #2 is pretty the same with the reason Ham is #11, Just consider the conditions he got 5 WDC under - car, conditions, tracks etc.
Then you have Michael who (as has been said over and over) sure he had 2 dominant cars but apart from 2002 and 4, he did have to make the difference based on his skills.
Not to mention how he fought along with the rest of the team to build the team from 1996 on ,and then he did have 2 titles before that.

I could go on for Alonso too, but you get my drift :)

[Brembo]

Lewis has 103 wins and so far 7WDCs along with a few other records. He's not that bad a driver. Ferrari sent out a great car this year , let's see how it goes for the rest of the season.

[stasera]

poor him

we saw that there is no any spanish lobby in the team, we should call it incompetence. the incompetence generally have hit leclerc, many times.

but this time, the incompetence hits carlos today. he just said oh my god.

i saw that mclaren technicians were watching that clownig show, they pity carlos' situation, even though we are their rivals.

[jgonzalesm6]

DutchGP 2022 Sainz's pitstop and what happened.

https://twitter.com/forsainz/status/1566480661585702912


https://twitter.com/F1/status/1566465612561408001



Step 1: Have 4 wheels ready. The arrow points towards the man with the left rear wheel.
Step 2: Go behind the jackman towards the left rear. The arrow points towards the man with left rear wheel.

https://twitter.com/MsportXtra/status/1566550685885386753/photo/1

https://twitter.com/MsportXtra/status/1566550685885386753/photo/2

https://twitter.com/MsportXtra/status/1566550685885386753/photo/3

https://twitter.com/MsportXtra/status/1566550685885386753/photo/4

[Alonsomaniac]

Personally I don't care which driver is at the wheel, as long as it's a Ferrari who wins. But in reality there is a difference between Leclerc and Sainz , although it is small. But nonetheless , there is a difference, and it's a very important one: as a driver, Leclerc is able to take the challenge to Verstappen and Sainz is not.
So, if Ferrari ever succeeds in bringing a car that can compete with the Red Bull for a full season, we need Leclerc at the wheel of the nr1 car and Sainz to support. In my opinion, it's the only way to defeat Max.

[aroutis]

Personally I don't care which driver is at the wheel, as long as it's a Ferrari who wins. But in reality there is a difference between Leclerc and Sainz , although it is small. But nonetheless , there is a difference, and it's a very important one: as a driver, Leclerc is able to take the challenge to Verstappen and Sainz is not.
So, if Ferrari ever succeeds in bringing a car that can compete with the Red Bull for a full season, we need Leclerc at the wheel of the nr1 car and Sainz to support. In my opinion, it's the only way to defeat Max.

Agreed._

[wisepie]

Personally I don't care which driver is at the wheel, as long as it's a Ferrari who wins. But in reality there is a difference between Leclerc and Sainz , although it is small. But nonetheless , there is a difference, and it's a very important one: as a driver, Leclerc is able to take the challenge to Verstappen and Sainz is not.
So, if Ferrari ever succeeds in bringing a car that can compete with the Red Bull for a full season, we need Leclerc at the wheel of the nr1 car and Sainz to support. In my opinion, it's the only way to defeat Max.

Agreed again.

[Brembo]

Personally I don't care which driver is at the wheel, as long as it's a Ferrari who wins. But in reality there is a difference between Leclerc and Sainz , although it is small. But nonetheless , there is a difference, and it's a very important one: as a driver, Leclerc is able to take the challenge to Verstappen and Sainz is not.
So, if Ferrari ever succeeds in bringing a car that can compete with the Red Bull for a full season, we need Leclerc at the wheel of the nr1 car and Sainz to support. In my opinion, it's the only way to defeat Max.

It should depend on which driver is where and doing what during each race. No premeditated #1,#2 before the start. Move over let him pass are killer words for either driver to get. The salaries are already determined. Whats left is getting those big points without being held back do to any politics or favoritism. Our drivers are equal enough to be let drive for the podium , no let him pass!!!

[Cavallino]

Personally I don't care which driver is at the wheel, as long as it's a Ferrari who wins. But in reality there is a difference between Leclerc and Sainz , although it is small. But nonetheless , there is a difference, and it's a very important one: as a driver, Leclerc is able to take the challenge to Verstappen and Sainz is not.
So, if Ferrari ever succeeds in bringing a car that can compete with the Red Bull for a full season, we need Leclerc at the wheel of the nr1 car and Sainz to support. In my opinion, it's the only way to defeat Max.

i disagree, the car is still not competitive enough. you'll know when the car is competitive when Sainz starts beating Verstappen as well.

[Alonsomaniac]

i disagree, the car is still not competitive enough. you'll know when the car is competitive when Sainz starts beating Verstappen as well.

I already said the car is not competitive. I said Leclerc needs a competitive car to take the challenge to Max. Sainz needs a faster car, because in a car that is competitive, he can't challenge Max. We already saw that in the past.

[Alonsomaniac]

It should depend on which driver is where and doing what during each race. No premeditated #1,#2 before the start. Move over let him pass are killer words for either driver to get. The salaries are already determined. Whats left is getting those big points without being held back do to any politics or favoritism. Our drivers are equal enough to be let drive for the podium , no let him pass!!!

In a way we agree, but it's not the way to beat Max. And that's what we want.

[ferrari1.8t]

Ferrari had a clear #1 and won 5 titles with Schumacher.
RedBull had a clear #1 and won 4 titles with Vettel
Mercedes had a clear #1 and won 6 titles with Ham
RedBull has a clear #1 and is about to win its second consecutive title with Verstappen.

Naming and backing a #1 works, it has always worked and is the only way to secure championships. There is always a stronger driver in each team and he needs to be backed and prioritized no matter what.

[Brembo]

Naming and backing a #1 works as long as the picked #1 is the stronger driver during the current race. No driver wants to know he has to move over even if he's in the #1 spot to finish a race. Just ask Rubens!

[Brembo]

Naming and backing a #1 works as long as the picked #1 is the stronger driver during the current race. No driver wants to know he has to move over even if he's in the #1 spot to finish a race. Just ask Rubens! And!!! Imagine if Charles at the time didn't drive as #1 against Seb!!

[Cavallino]

I already said the car is not competitive. I said Leclerc needs a competitive car to take the challenge to Max. Sainz needs a faster car, because in a car that is competitive, he can't challenge Max. We already saw that in the past.

actually in Torro Rosso we did see Sainz take the fight to Max.

Resist the Sky F1 hype.

[Cavallino]

Ferrari had a clear #1 and won 5 titles with Schumacher.
RedBull had a clear #1 and won 4 titles with Vettel
Mercedes had a clear #1 and won 6 titles with Ham
RedBull has a clear #1 and is about to win its second consecutive title with Verstappen.

Naming and backing a #1 works, it has always worked and is the only way to secure championships. There is always a stronger driver in each team and he needs to be backed and prioritized no matter what.

i agree, but when Ferrari does that the Brit teams and Sky F1 have a hissy fit.

[jgonzalesm6]

Ferrari had a clear #1 and won 5 titles with Schumacher.
RedBull had a clear #1 and won 4 titles with Vettel
Mercedes had a clear #1 and won 6 titles with Ham
RedBull has a clear #1 and is about to win its second consecutive title with Verstappen.

Naming and backing a #1 works, it has always worked and is the only way to secure championships. There is always a stronger driver in each team and he needs to be backed and prioritized no matter what.


From a percentage to wins in a season, given the last 22 years, Schumacher comes out on top in 2004 with a 72.72% of winning.

Lewis doesn't even come close during his turbo-hybrid reign.....the closest Lewis got was I believe 65%.

IF Max wins the remaining races for 2022, he could beat Schumachers percentage by a fraction.........again, Max has to win the remaining races for 2022.

[Brembo]

From a percentage to wins in a season, given the last 22 years, Schumacher comes out on top in 2004 with a 72.72% of winning.

Lewis doesn't even come close during his turbo-hybrid reign.....the closest Lewis got was I believe 65%.

IF Max wins the remaining races for 2022, he could beat Schumachers percentage by a fraction.........again, Max has to win the remaining races for 2022.

The only hope for Max will be if Perez does a Rubens to help his team mate. It looks like they have the car to do it.

[Alonsomaniac]

Naming and backing a #1 works as long as the picked #1 is the stronger driver during the current race. No driver wants to know he has to move over even if he's in the #1 spot to finish a race. Just ask Rubens!

True. But it's not the way to win championships. And that's what we want. Nobody said it is fair, but if we want to win next year, Leclerc needs 100% support, every single race. That's what RBR does with Max.

[JPZ]

True. But it's not the way to win championships. And that's what we want. Nobody said it is fair, but if we want to win next year, Leclerc needs 100% support, every single race. That's what RBR does with Max.

Agreed.

[Brembo]

True. But it's not the way to win championships. And that's what we want. Nobody said it is fair, but if we want to win next year, Leclerc needs 100% support, every single race. That's what RBR does with Max.

True. If Charles is ahead of Carlos . If Carlos is the guy up front; Charles should block for him to stay up front. Remember Ferrari needs Santana :rotfl happy!!!

[stasera]

https://youtu.be/ke1XseFyBw0



lets remember that amazing performance

[Brembo]

Carlos needs to change his family heritage info to Germany, that will at least get him a fair shot at the track each race!!!

[racingbradley]

Carlos is for sure right up there with any driver you name. And maybe better. A top reliable car for sure would help!!

Being Spanish never stood in Alonso's way.

[Brembo]

Being Spanish never stood in Alonso's way.

Very true indeed! 2023 seem ready for equal treatment with Santander behind Ferrari.

[stasera]

Carlos needs to change his family heritage info to Germany, that will at least get him a fair shot at the track each race!!!

spanish people in general better than any other europeans when it comes to sport

[brucewayne]

It should depend on which driver is where and doing what during each race. No premeditated #1,#2 before the start. Move over let him pass are killer words for either driver to get. The salaries are already determined. Whats left is getting those big points without being held back do to any politics or favoritism. Our drivers are equal enough to be let drive for the podium , no let him pass!!!

It shouldn't. Leclerc is the faster driver, we do not have unlimited resources. In a situation like in Silverstone, you go for Charles. No excuses. Carlos would still be winless without the farce of Silverstone. He doesn't have the ultimate pace that is needed. I really don't understand what some see in him, he is no Alonso unfortunately.

Helmut Marko confirmed that they used the weight reduction to make changes according to Max's preferences. We have to do the same, otherwise we won't be able to compete.

[racingbradley]

The team needs to maximise [no pun intended] their potential at every race. if that means team orders so be it.:-)

[Brembo]

The team needs to maximise [no pun intended] their potential at every race. if that means team orders so be it.:-)

I agree 100%! At every race team orders should be determined as to who needs to move over . The WCC is the big deal! Points wise.

[racingbradley]

Team principals have placed Carlos in 7th place of fastest drivers in 2022. Norris in 6h place

[JPZ]

Team principals have placed Carlos in 7th place of fastest drivers in 2022. Norris in 6h place

And they rated Leclerc in 2nd place and Russel in 3rd above Hamilton.

[SilverSpeed]

The team principals do know their stuff he:-P.

[racingbradley]

The team principals do know their stuff he:-P.

They put Max 1st and Charles 2nd ;-)

[Brembo]

[QUOTE=JPZ;1074265]And they rated Leclerc in 2nd place and Russel in 3rd above Hamilton.[/QU

When a driver finishes 1st as is the case with Max , formerly Sr Lewis; it was " The Car!" Carlos in no way is just 7th best! It was his car. :rotfl If the shoe fits; wear it! :rotfl

[stasera]

http://www.thescuderia.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8102&d=1675887545

8102


muchas gracias Carlos

[stasera]

Carlos Sainz said that poor tyre degradation meant he was unable to hold on to P3 from Alonso.

“In our car, as soon as you push a bit to defend, you cook the tyres.”

“We have too much degradation. The tyres get hot when we start pushing.”

Carlos Sainz post race:

“That was tough the last stint. But yeah, that was the maximum today for me. It’s not where we want to be but…”

[patrese86]

How can this be an issue still????

Despite the embarrassment of our PU reliability in 2022 I was most asked by our tyre degredation and yet here it is, maybe even worse than last year considering our car has to work even harder as the downforce seems to of dissapeared in favour of a less draggy car. Wrong thread but I don't blame Carlos, he isn't as good as Charles but why do we keep making cars like this for our drivers.