SF23 Discussion Thread

[Alonsomaniac]

Carlos Sainz said you can't blame the crashes on Leclerc: "The car is a diva and completely unpredictable in high speed corners. So, if you drive the car always on the limit, these things just happen." he said.

[Brembo]

Carlos Sainz said you can't blame the crashes on Leclerc: "The car is a diva and completely unpredictable in high speed corners. So, if you drive the car always on the limit, these things just happen." he said.

Thanks for posting that !

[nani_s23]

Details on the Barcelona package for Ferrari: -
Completely revised floor
Modifications to the bodywork and very visible
Rear suspension, interesting change but which will not affect the geometry (budget cap)
The 2024 car is already in the wind tunnel

@Formu1a.uno

[nani_s23]

Ferrari's 2024 car is already in the wind tunnel, so introducing a majorly different car right now would be critical, as per Fred Vasseur.

Barcelona will provide important data for future discussions in the technical office, and will determine the guidelines for 2024.

@Formu1a.uno

[tifosi1993]

Hope the news/rumours about upcoming upgrades are true and they will indeed be as significant as the Italian media is suggesting.

[racingbradley]

Apparently the two new guys from RB, who have just completed gardening leave, will work on the 2024 car.

[FerrariF60]

Apparently the two new guys from RB, who have just completed gardening leave, will work on the 2024 car.

Yay.....hopefully they'll bring some insight knowledge on how the red bull floor, diffuser and their efficient DRS really work

[Nick Singer]

Yay.....hopefully they'll bring some insight knowledge on how the red bull floor, diffuser and their efficient DRS really work

Just some competence would be nice...

[Brembo]

We fans need Charles Win,podium from 19t place! Carlos did a win from 18th place . Points !

[gjoko-mkd]

good news....


,,Ferrari used the two days of testing the 2024 Pirelli tires following the Grand Prix to get to know the SF-23 upgrade better. And that was a hit. In retrospect, the engineers realized that the two Ferraris were completely wrong on the race weekend. A giant leap forward was already evident during the test. The learning process worked. The lap times in the long run were consistently fast, the drivers had confidence in their cars and the Ferrari harmonized with all three tire compounds,,

[Cavallino]

good news....


,,Ferrari used the two days of testing the 2024 Pirelli tires following the Grand Prix to get to know the SF-23 upgrade better. And that was a hit. In retrospect, the engineers realized that the two Ferraris were completely wrong on the race weekend. A giant leap forward was already evident during the test. The learning process worked. The lap times in the long run were consistently fast, the drivers had confidence in their cars and the Ferrari harmonized with all three tire compounds,,

it's ashame we couldn't have a normal dry weekend to know for sure, but the Friday practice times were encouraging as well

[FerrariF60]

8195

Lol, look how simple and primitive our floor is in comparison to red bull that we’ve seen at Monaco

Who would wanna copy our floor....lol

[Brembo]

Great to see Charles back in action!

[F2003GA]

i heard, in a post race french tv show that Ferrari is going to bring a front car's upgrade for the Austrian GP.

[PURE PASSION]

i heard, in a post race french tv show that Ferrari is going to bring a front car's upgrade for the Austrian GP.

Other say a new-revised rear suspension!!
Who knows ?? Everything is rumors !!!!

[FerrariF60]

Other say a new-revised rear suspension!!
Who knows ?? Everything is rumors !!!!

Yeah, I’ll believe it when I see it
We’ve heard so many rumors on new suspension that I almost gave up

[PURE PASSION]

Yeah, I’ll believe it when I see it
We’ve heard so many rumors on new suspension that I almost gave up

yehh , ITs become like GREEK MYTHOLOGY!!! We wll teach it to the children in a few years!!!

[Greig]

Yeah, I’ll believe it when I see it
We’ve heard so many rumors on new suspension that I almost gave up

Only rumours about it are created by you on here lol :-D

[FerrariF60]

Only rumours about it are created by you on here lol :-D

Me???? please....i'm just mentioning what others have posted from various links and tweets,,,,,hence the " i'll believe it when i see it"...

i personally highly doubt that Ferrari will EVER bring a new revised suspension this year....cause you know, they have to adhere to the budget cap....for the good of the sport or course....LMFAO

IF we're lucky and IF they are competent enough we may see a revised suspension in 2024

as ferrari engineers like to take their time eating pasta and drinking wine rather then work flat out to turn this donkey so they call a prancing horse around.....lmao again

[Greig]

Me???? please....i'm just mentioning what others have posted from various links and tweets,,,,,hence the " i'll believe it when i see it"...

i personally highly doubt that Ferrari will EVER bring a new revised suspension this year....cause you know, they have to adhere to the budget cap....for the good of the sport or course....LMFAO

IF we're lucky and IF they are competent enough we may see a revised suspension in 2024

as ferrari engineers like to take their time eating pasta and drinking wine rather then work flat out to turn this donkey so they call a prancing horse around.....lmao again

More made up stuff from you. Have some respect for the team in future posts please.

[FerrariF60]

More made up stuff from you. Have some respect for the team in future posts please.

i can say whatever i want about this incompetent team every day of the week when they goof things up over, and over and over again...only ONCE in a while they get thigs right, for example the strategy they used NOT to pit under the safety car like everyone else did....pit wall must have woken up for that race,,,,LOL


so, yeah, i have a RIGHT to voice my opinion so long as i;m not using profanity....WHICH I AM NOT

so there.....

[Greig]

i can say whatever i want about this incompetent team every day of the week when they goof things up over, and over and over again...only ONCE in a while they get thigs right, for example the strategy they used NOT to pit under the safety car like everyone else did....pit wall must have woken up for that race,,,,LOL


so, yeah, i have a RIGHT to voice my opinion so long as i;m not using profanity....WHICH I AM NOT

so there.....

No you can't say whatever you like. You are not going to come here and insult the team over and over with made up nonsense.

[FerrariF60]

No you can't say whatever you like. You are not going to come here and insult the team over and over with made up nonsense.

i'm NOT insulting the team Greig, i'm just stating the obvious....which is true incompetence WE or I SEE from them over and over and over since 2008....very rarely we see them bring stuff that actually works....and that by the true HIGH standards Ferrari team is OR at least us ferrari fans seem them as is totally unacceptable by a team and caliber FERRARI is.

[Greig]

i'm NOT insulting the team Greig, i'm just stating the obvious....which is true incompetence WE or I SEE from them over and over and over since 2008....very rarely we see them bring stuff that actually works....and that by the true HIGH standards Ferrari team is OR at least us ferrari fans seem them as is totally unacceptable by a team and caliber FERRARI is.


as ferrari engineers like to take their time eating pasta and drinking wine rather then work flat out to turn this donkey so they call a prancing horse around

This is respectful and not insulting? We are not an anti-Ferrari forum.

[FerrariF60]

This is respectful and not insulting? We are not an anti-Ferrari forum.

ok, maybe the eating pasta and drinking wine is somewhat insulting and over reacted a bit....but all the rest is true

we are FERRARI, a very top team, or at least that used to be a top team.....i can see a team the likes of whilliams, haas, alpha tauri or even alfa romeo to have issues with bringing parts that don't work accordingly.....BUT from a team like FERRARI seeing this kind of incompetence....common, that is unacceptable in my books

this is a team that won the most constructor and drivers titles than any other F1 team out there, a team that i used to be proud and brag about it to my friends, taht are fans of other teams....but as of late they keep rubbing it in my face that Ferrari is this, Ferrari is that....and is NOT nice, but the truth is, Ferrari as a whole is NOT what it used to be like....can they turn it around??? i'm sure they can, but for that to happen it needs to be a lot of commitment involved and everyone has to put that EXTRA EFFORT and work 'round the clock.....as we've got some fierce competition out there.....red bull, Merc now slowly making their DUD of a car into something competittive, Aston Martin bringing updates heavily.....so we cannot drop the ball by any means

[paolo lalli]

Ferrari are making progress also moving foward in the season this will become more apparent,remember there is a lot of house keeping that is required at ferrari f1 there has been a mess left behind so the clean up is happening methodically once completed ferrari will return to the pointy end of f1 there is no doubt.

[Brembo]

Degrading either driver with team orders would be a bad move . Let them fight for position and both team and fans will see points!! The salary diff.between our drivers is degrading enough! Santander; where are you ! Both our drivers are podium qualified. If either Alonso or Lewis can get a win our drivers will be super encouraged to do the same. Shut their radio and drive to win!

[FerrariF60]

From Motorsport.com Italy

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-ferrari-cambia-strategia-si-anticipano-tutti-gli-sviluppi/10485837/

"The Scuderia has decided to be daring: the budget for the evolution of the SF-23 will be spent entirely within the summer break, now that the Prancing Horse technicians seem to have understood where to get their hands on the red car.
A new floor and a different electric power management of the ERS will debut in Austria, even if at the Red Bull Ring there will be only one session of free practice due to the Sprint race format.
In Maranello they are convinced that the time has come for courageous choices that could also be useful for the 2024 single-seater."

[PURE PASSION]

From Motorsport.com Italy

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-ferrari-cambia-strategia-si-anticipano-tutti-gli-sviluppi/10485837/

"The Scuderia has decided to be daring: the budget for the evolution of the SF-23 will be spent entirely within the summer break, now that the Prancing Horse technicians seem to have understood where to get their hands on the red car.
A new floor and a different electric power management of the ERS will debut in Austria, even if at the Red Bull Ring there will be only one session of free practice due to the Sprint race format.
In Maranello they are convinced that the time has come for courageous choices that could also be useful for the 2024 single-seater."

Just read it myself and was about to post it !!!!;-)
In "theory" its looking good. It make sense that IF they truly have found a solid right direction to evolve the car.
BUT all this have to be proved in the track !!!!!!!
Lets see !!!!:pray:pray:pray:pray:pray:pray:pray

[FerrariF60]

Just read it myself and was about to post it !!!!;-)
In "theory" its looking good. It make sense that IF they truly have found a solid right direction to evolve the car.
BUT all this have to be proved in the track !!!!!!!
Lets see !!!!:pray:pray:pray:pray:pray:pray:pray

yeah we can only hope that Ferrari have found a good base to work from and future updates will make the car even faster

Floors are the most "bang for your buck" upgrades under the current regs by far, which is why they get modified and upgraded so much.
Sidepods and overall body will remain as they are now until next season me thinks, Ferrari has plenty of RW options and most of them have been updated to use the single pylon.

Maybe there's a new front wing still to come... but other than that it's floor, floor, floor...

[JacKy]

Idk. Rumors about the new floor and suspensions never ends.

[TTRSMAD]

Idk. Rumors about the new floor and suspensions never ends.

Time will tell but I have a feeling that they understand what needs to be done to get back at the front. Austria will be a big test if they can replicate what they did in Montreal. Leclerc is very good on this track and the racing will be very exciting on a dry track. If they bring upgrades, watch out.

[FerrariF60]

Time will tell but I have a feeling that they understand what needs to be done to get back at the front. Austria will be a big test if they can replicate what they did in Montreal. Leclerc is very good on this track and the racing will be very exciting on a dry track. If they bring upgrades, watch out.

austria has quite a few high speed corners and is different than Montreal, which the sf23 kind of lacks in that dept. but who knows, if they bring some updates and they work will be interesting to see how fast the Ferrari will be there

[nani_s23]

Idk. Rumors about the new floor and suspensions never ends.

New suspension is planned for 2024

What’s coming for next tracks is New floor/Front wing & brake ducts.

[paolo lalli]

Why are they rumours ferrari have hardly spent any of there allocated budget cap so big upgrades should be forthcoming.Iam sure they want these upgrades implemented ASAP to either rule them in or out.Correlation with wind tunnel will play a massive role with there timing and implementation.Ferrari are moving in the right direction iam sure with a new philosophy and approach.Lets not forget how messy and dirty the kitchen was left at ferrari so to speak.

[PURE PASSION]

Ferrari exclusive: Cardile wants the new fund on the track at Fiorano immediately!

Ferrari introduced the first major aerodynamics package at the Spanish Grand Prix . Something that was defined as very visible because, as we have seen, it changed the appearance of the SF-23.

In particular, the rear now has a very different connection towards the diffuser slide, compared to the tanks that were introduced with the F1-75. However it is only the first step, the chorus of engineers is always unanimous on one thing: what really matters to make this generation of cars work is what you can't see, namely under the floor.

The design is not visible until the cars are accidentally lifted with cranes, as happened in Monaco. Likewise, at the first corner in Montreal, Carlos Sainz's exit gave us the possibility to still look under the SF-23.

The fund introduced in Barcelona is the second 'updated floor' after Miami . Heavily updated the edge with the aim of widening its use according to the heights to reduce harmful jumping.

A step forward which, however, sounded like an about-face, that is, agreeing to reduce performance on a single lap in order to open up better set-up scenarios. In fact, the appearance was not so different in the function of the venturi channels, if not in a first modification in the throat area of ​​the diffuser.

However, the technicians are not at all worried about the spoiler since it is an element that will change significantly, as soon as possible.
According to what has been learned, Enrico Cardile pushed very hard to quickly equip the SF-23 with a rather different fund . The technicians have already been given a mandate to send the production mold to the autoclave and make the specimens available to the team over the next race weekends. It is not clear whether they will be able to bring 3 specimens to Austria, also in consideration of the breathless format of the sprint, which sees the cars go into qualifying on Friday.

The good news is that Ferrari will hold the second Filming day at Fiorano on Tuesday with the first specimen of the new fund! In addition, the package includes a new front wing and new front brake ducts.

The production times of the autoclave
They always depend on the complexity of the design as it is one of the handicraft works in the factory. The technician works the carbon in the mold of the part to be produced and then puts it in the oven and fires it. The processing is quite complex since it is necessary to heat the part and cool it several times and slowly. The pressurization to which the material is subjected prevents the formation of micro air bubbles which can make the piece less resistant. A floor is certainly the part most under stress together with the tyres.

Build quality actually depends on knowledge of carbon machining and tooling. This makes us understand that when it comes to implementing a fund, even minimally, the process cannot be quick or cheap.

However, the tenor and haste with which the production of this third floor of the season is being accelerated suggests a concrete step forward.

Unlike the F1-75, the SF-23 never raced with the trim parameters for which it was designed

We now have constant evidence that understanding new parts is essential but not lightning fast, the simulator can do a good job but development remains a rather fragile path that takes miles. An incorrect difference in height adjustments in millimeters can have a large operational impact. It is worth mentioning that the technicians were in for a nasty surprise when the car was put down at the Bahrain tests. In reality, in terms of pure aerodynamics, the correlation has always been good, the problem was the set-up options with which the 675 was born, which did not give the expected results.
New suspension on the 676 car
In short, there was no convergence between mechanics, wind tunnel and what happened on the track. Nobody forbids thinking of the 2023 and 2024 car with the same intensity, however it is not possible to redesign the entire dynamic platform of the current car due to budget constraints and hours in tunnels and CFDs. That's why, despite some rumors, any new suspension project is eagerly awaited on the 676 and we won't see it this season . From what filters from the technical office, after the good response from Montreal, this convergence of performance will gradually be achieved with these updates.

[Tony]

"Unlike the F1-75, the SF-23 never raced with the trim parameters for which it was designed"

What does this mean?

[PURE PASSION]

"Unlike the F1-75, the SF-23 never raced with the trim parameters for which it was designed"

What does this mean?

i was wondering that myself. Is it has to do with the new ground rules and TD39?? Like the sf-23 was design with similar characteristics as the F!-75??
Although it doesnt make sense , since they knew about this rules !!!!!

[RossTheBoss]

"Unlike the F1-75, the SF-23 never raced with the trim parameters for which it was designed"

What does this mean?
It means that they're not able to run the SF-23 at the downforce settings it's designed for. Likely, the purposing and degradation is behind that.

Once the handling is more stable, they'll able to run the car at downforce setting they want, and run with less downforce on power tracks again.

[tifosi1993]

"Unlike the F1-75, the SF-23 never raced with the trim parameters for which it was designed"

What does this mean?

Nothing, just some fancy jargon from Italian media pretending to be expert on everything F1. F1 cars are one of the most complex pieces of engineering novelty and way above the pay grade of all those media experts in Italy. Only Ferrari and Ferrari alone knows the parameters of the SF23 and the targets they were trying to reach with this car when designing it.

[TTRSMAD]

"Unlike the F1-75, the SF-23 never raced with the trim parameters for which it was designed"

What does this mean?

It means they qualify the car with a set up not adapted for race trim. The set up window to compromise between race trim and qualifying trim is too narrow. Usually you set up the car in a way to qualify as high up as possible.

When they set up the car with optimal parameters to carry 100kg of fuel, they are slow. The car does not generate enough downforce from the floor because if it did the set up window with be wider.

[Tony]

It means they qualify the car with a set up not adapted for race trim. The set up window to compromise between race trim and qualifying trim is too narrow. Usually you set up the car in a way to qualify as high up as possible.

When they set up the car with optimal parameters to carry 100kg of fuel, they are slow. The car does not generate enough downforce from the floor because if it did the set up window with be wider.

Ah, when they say "raced" they meant it literally.... race day.

[Brembo]

Never a word about Ferarri's engine compared to others. Sidepods , the floor; tyre wear; etc. that's it. Is it that good that the engine is near perfect? Is the HP there when
needed esp. on the straghtaways

[Golfsmith]

F1 cars are one of the most complex pieces of engineering novelty and way above the pay grade of all those media experts in Italy. Italy alone,i think the rest of the world media and the current commentators in F1.

[Brembo]

A couple of 1 2podium wins and the Media D' Italia will calm right down.

[FerrariF60]

A couple of 1 2podium wins and the Media D' Italia will calm right down.

not this year....with any luck maybe in 2024

[paolo lalli]

All I can say is that iam very optimistic for the remainder of the season and I can see a resurgent ferrari.In marananello let me tell you they are moving heaven and earth to make this happen.As for the engine as marko has stated its probably the best on the grid,a few new components and no doubt it will all come together sooner than we think.Ferrari are just to big to just fail.Expect a very fast ferrari in Austria and please do not say that you did not see it coming because like a fright train it's arriving Expect the unexpected..

[TTRSMAD]

All I can say is that iam very optimistic for the remainder of the season and I can see a resurgent ferrari.In marananello let me tell you they are moving heaven and earth to make this happen.As for the engine as marko has stated its probably the best on the grid,a few new components and no doubt it will all come together sooner than we think.Ferrari are just to big to just fail.Expect a very fast ferrari in Austria and please do not say that you did not see it coming because like a fright train it's arriving Expect the unexpected..

I agree, the performance of the SF-23 has been a slap in the face for Ferrari. It's like if last year's car was a fluke by not understanding what made the car so good. Thing are turning around and it's good to see.

It looks like at the Spain Pirelli tire test, they learned how to make their car work, at least I hope. All of a sudden, this Tuesday, they are rushing to bring a new floor to test at Fiorano during the filming day to maybe bring in Austria.

This means they maybe learned how to unlock the potential of this car or else they would not rush the floor in this manner. :pray

[FerrariF60]

i just read that now the new floor will only be ready in a few weeks time, possibly in Hungary

https://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/892411/Ferrari_to_deploy_brandnew_upgrade_in_a_few_weeks/


so whatever happened to ferrari rushing this floor to be ready for a "filming day" and possibly racing it in austria???

again false rumors, i guess....

[paolo lalli]

This year is being used by ferrari as a testing year moving foward.The year has already been written off. The remainder of the season will be evolution ,planning, and live testing during races as part of 2025 season.The clean up at ferrari is ongoing but it's happening ,I will enjoy watching the SF 23 Evolve between now and then.

[Brembo]

Hopefully our drivers show up for the races with hopes for a podium. Not thinking 2025 . Fans also hopefully will watch Ferrari with hopes for podiums 2023. Carlos; Alonso; Lewis;Max are worth watching! Enjoy Sunday's sprint race!

[nani_s23]

Charles driving the SF-23 during the filming day in Fiorano today!
He was driving with the new floor. Important changes in the crucial entrance area of the Venturi tunnels, where Ferrari opted for a solution already seen on the RB19 and on the AMR23

@formu1a.uno

[tifosi1993]

https://formu1a-uno.translate.goog/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/1D544620-scaled.jpg?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=sr&_x_tr_pto=wapp
https://formu1a.uno/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Compare-fondo.jpg
https://formu1a.uno/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Compare-fondo-2.jpg
https://formu1a.uno/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/1D545021-1.jpg

https://formu1a-uno.translate.goog/ferrari-sf-23-a-fiorano-ce-anche-il-nuovo-fondo-che-riprende-soluzioni-red-bull/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=sr&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[tifosi1993]

I think it would be fair to call this car SF23-B. This car is completely different from the one that raced in Monaco and previous races.

[Greig]

Hopefully data is good from the test track and we bring them to Austria, if they work then get them on the car ASAP.

[FerrariF60]

Hopefully data is good from the test track and we bring them to Austria, if they work then get them on the car ASAP.

indeed fingers crossed that the data they are getting from this test is good and they can use it

question is, do they have enough parts for both cars?? Because we’ve seen in the past times when they tested something and it worked, they did not use updates as they only had one set and it wouldn’t be fair for the drivers that ONLY one driver gets them.

[nani_s23]

Finally, the new front wing is clearly lighter, returning to a design that is no longer too far from the F1-75. Outwash is minor as is drag. This shows that aero map corrections have been worked on via the floor

@Formu1a.uno

[JPZ]

I think it would be fair to call this car SF23-B. This car is completely different from the one that raced in Monaco and previous races.

Looks like I will have to buy two diecast model cars for this year: the SF-23 and the SF-23 Evo :-??

[FerrariF60]

Looks like I will have to buy two diecast model cars for this year: the SF-23 and the SF-23 Evo :-??

i would much rather prefer it being called SF-23 Evil, as in a beast of a car on track....BUT it don't look it like will be this year, maybe in 2024....we'll see

[FerrariF60]

Motorsport.it reports that Vasseur, interviewed by the Italian newspaper "Il Corriere della Sera", stated that the changes have been promoted, but with reservations, given the proto tires used and that the Fiorano track is not as fast as the Red Bull Ring which will have to confirm the progress noted yesterday when what was most sought after was the correlation between simulations and track in the comparison between the SF-23 "B" standard and the one with the new parts (floor, FW and engine cover :?: ).

[paolo lalli]

Definitely an A + B spec car being developed for the remainder of the season until the balance and results are found subject to cost cap of course.This will form the blue print of next year's model.

[aroutis]

indeed fingers crossed that the data they are getting from this test is good and they can use it

question is, do they have enough parts for both cars?? Because we’ve seen in the past times when they tested something and it worked, they did not use updates as they only had one set and it wouldn’t be fair for the drivers that ONLY one driver gets them.
If there are not enough parts, this time Charles takes them. Last time, Carlos got the package.

[Aviamata]

indeed fingers crossed that the data they are getting from this test is good and they can use it

question is, do they have enough parts for both cars?? Because we’ve seen in the past times when they tested something and it worked, they did not use updates as they only had one set and it wouldn’t be fair for the drivers that ONLY one driver gets them.

We don't have a championship winning car anyway so why not use every opportunities available

[paolo lalli]

That may be right about the car.Team morale is very important now and I do not like hearing the drivers chastising the team frustration can surround each and every person but how it's handled is key.Charles needs to pull it in because his out bursts will do him no good and only devalue his ability.Ferrari would have no problem sacking him if his ways do not change,ferrari have sacked drivers before for criticism of the team,ferrari view it as a slap in the organisations face as a whole this will never be tolerated regardless of the driver and his talent.Iam sure Fred has addressed his attitude and as he stated try being in the ferrari shoes.Heads down and focus that's key and it will come together.

[Brembo]

I remember Alain Prost getting kicked of the team on the track after the race!

[JacKy]

Couple of sources claims that Vasseur said that we’ll bring upgrades in Silverstone.

I couldnt find this on Vasseur’s English interviews.

[Decoded]

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-ferrari-a-silverstone-arriva-anche-un-nuovo-diffusore/10491055/

F1 | Ferrari: a new diffuser also arrives at Silverstone
The Scuderia capitalised on Leclerc's second place in the Austrian GP and Sainz's third place in the Sprint race, a sign that the new aerodynamic package (front wing and bottom) gave positive indications on the development of the red, even if the Prancing Horse technicians expected a smaller gap from Verstappen's Red Bull. On the SF-23 the best setup has not yet been found to exploit its full potential: at Silverstone Ferrari will also be able to count on a new extractor to find the square.

[nani_s23]

More balanced Ferrari SF-23 EVO: - Developments work - Better in tire management, but still needs improvement - The most effective improvement is the floor because strongly reduces porpoising, lower ground clearance and more load - Regain in traction

[nani_s23]

Ferrari could run the Sf-23 lower on the ground without producing porpoising

The plank wear, measured after the race, was just below the mandated maximum

This is a significant step forward for the team: the development is fixing their problems!

@giuliano Duchessa

[tifosi1993]

That is indeed very good news. What hasn't been covered extensively is that Ferrari is also raised the rear suspension rod and changed the geometry. And with the new floor, they are able to run the car lower like last year.

But they need to change the balance and make the front stronger. Right now, the car has a very understeery balance. Which is quite prevalent when the car is fully loaded with fuel and its not the fastest way to achieve lap times. They need to add more front downforce and make the rear a little bit lighter. That way they would be able to achieve the same balance the F1-75 had before TD39.

[PURE PASSION]

That is indeed very good news. What hasn't been covered extensively is that Ferrari is also raised the rear suspension rod and changed the geometry. And with the new floor, they are able to run the car lower like last year.

But they need to change the balance and make the front stronger. Right now, the car has a very understeery balance. Which is quite prevalent when the car is fully loaded with fuel and its not the fastest way to achieve lap times. They need to add more front downforce and make the rear a little bit lighter. That way they would be able to achieve the same balance the F1-75 had before TD39.
Ferrari: a new diffuser is also coming to Silverstone.

The best configuration to exploit its full potential has not yet been found on the SF-23 EVO: at Silverstone, Ferrari will also be able to count on a new diffuser to find the right balance.

[JacKy]

I'm wondering, since the porpoising problems have been resolved and the car is as close to the ground as possible, how would we perform if we brought last year's body work! With updated floors and wings of course.

F1-75’ First Stint at Silverstone was around 1.33.300-500

SF-23’s first stint was pretty much same 1.33.200-300

At least F1-75 have had some strong sides.

[Aviamata]

I'm wondering, since the porpoising problems have been resolved and the car is as close to the ground as possible, how would we perform if we brought last year's body work! With updated floors and wings of course.

F1-75’ First Stint at Silverstone was around 1.33.300-500

SF-23’s first stint was pretty much same 1.33.200-300

At least F1-75 have had some strong sides.

The bathtub design is not very good to direct the airflow to seal the floor at the back of the car

[JacKy]

The bathtub design is not very good to direct the airflow to seal the floor at the back of the car

We kinda have it anyway.

And When we look at the new McLaren and Aston , they have the inner bathtub tunnels but directed to floor.

[tifosi1993]

Brits rule Formula 1, period. There is no 'if' or 'but' about it. 8 of the 10 F1 teams are based in UK. The combined success of the UK based teams outshines all the others. Engine manufacturers like Honda and Mercedes have their F1 divisions in the UK. Not because they like the gloomy and depressive UK weather, but because the best peoples are here.

Ferrari on the other hand is all about "made in Italy". For Ferrari, national pride and identity is more important than anything else. Things weren't as dire in the past because unrestricted in-season testing was allowed and Ferrari was able to develop its cars by running around the Fiorano track with custom-built Bridgestone rubbers 24X7. But even then it struggled massively, until the addition of Todt, Brawn and Bryne.

But current F1 is more about level playing field. And Ferrari is getting outplayed in every department. From race management to car development, its behind everywhere. Ferrari is getting ridiculed everywhere because of their incompetence and it can't utilize the sheer talents of its drivers.

So, I will say it again. As long as Ferrari stays in Italy, it will not win a single damn thing. F1 is ultra competitive and you can't expect to "win" anything by employing people who are clearly 2nd or 3rd best. Look at RB, Newey's influence is ubiquitous. Ferrari tried their best to hire him multiple times but failed, simply because Newey never have had any intention of moving to Italy. And it's not just Newey, all the top talents of F1 have also done the same thing and refused to join Ferrari.

Ferrari can easily afford to set up their main F1 base in the UK but they aren't going to do it. Simply because "made in Italy" is more important than winning titles.

[FerrariF60]

Brits rule Formula 1, period. There is no 'if' or 'but' about it. 8 of the 10 F1 teams are based in UK. The combined success of the UK based teams outshines all the others. Engine manufacturers like Honda and Mercedes have their F1 divisions in the UK. Not because they like the gloomy and depressive UK weather, but because the best peoples are here.

Ferrari on the other hand is all about "made in Italy". For Ferrari, national pride and identity is more important than anything else. Things weren't as dire in the past because unrestricted in-season testing was allowed and Ferrari was able to develop its cars by running around the Fiorano track with custom-built Bridgestone rubbers 24X7. But even then it struggled massively, until the addition of Todt, Brawn and Bryne.

But current F1 is more about level playing field. And Ferrari is getting outplayed in every department. From race management to car development, its behind everywhere. Ferrari is getting ridiculed everywhere because of their incompetence and it can't utilize the sheer talents of its drivers.

So, I will say it again. As long as Ferrari stays in Italy, it will not win a single damn thing. F1 is ultra competitive and you can't expect to "win" anything by employing people who are clearly 2nd or 3rd best. Look at RB, Newey's influence is ubiquitous. Ferrari tried their best to hire him multiple times but failed, simply because Newey never have had any intention of moving to Italy. And it's not just Newey, all the top talents of F1 have also done the same thing and refused to join Ferrari.

Ferrari can easily afford to set up their main F1 base in the UK but they aren't going to do it. Simply because "made in Italy" is more important than winning titles.

WOW....you have made a remarkable summery of what we call Ferrari F1 team....i could NOT have put it in better words myself, and i am sure a lot of people on this forum feel this way

it's sad, but maybe Ferrari's aim is to get second place, and fight for that over and over....afterall, it don't seem to affect their road car sales....on contrary, they are cracking record sales quarter after quarter....

so WHO knows when we'll see ferrari win another WCC....as those are WAY more important to me than teh WDC.....of course i would love to see a Ferrari driver win a WDC.....but....when will that happen??? when pigs fly we'll see WCC and WDC trophies back in Maranello.....

SAD BUT TOTALLY TRUE

[tifosi1993]

WOW....you have made a remarkable summery of what we call Ferrari F1 team....i could NOT have put it in better words myself, and i am sure a lot of people on this forum feel this way

it's sad, but maybe Ferrari's aim is to get second place, and fight for that over and over....afterall, it don't seem to affect their road car sales....on contrary, they are cracking record sales quarter after quarter....

so WHO knows when we'll see ferrari win another WCC....as those are WAY more important to me than teh WDC.....of course i would love to see a Ferrari driver win a WDC.....but....when will that happen??? when pigs fly we'll see WCC and WDC trophies back in Maranello.....

SAD BUT TOTALLY TRUE

Speaking of record sales, Ferrari aren't unique in that regard. Luxury sports car market has niche customers, and people who'd buy them can easily afford 100's of them. Others like Lamborghini and Pagani are also having good times.

But I do believe Ferrari's F1 performance is affecting the brand. F1 receives huge social media visibility during race weekends and Ferrari's strategic errors and lack of pace are one of the most talked topics during that time. Reddit is full of meme's making fun of Ferrari, same thing on Twitter as well.

But those things aren't important. The thing that making me most frustrated is the sheer waste of driver talents at Ferrari. It's always the same thing: their outright failure at developing a great car. Sometimes they start the season with great momentum and results, but then lose their way and end the season with the 2nd or 3rd best car. Most of the time they start with a dud and remain in that position.

And how many times are they going to go through this "build-up" period? 2010, 2015. 2017, 2022...all those years were supposed to be the time of Ferrari's resurgence. Just look how 2022 started and where we are right now. And they are going thorugh to that same "buildup" period again. 2024 would be a waste because 2025 would be the year of Ferrari's so-called "resurgence". And the circle will continue.

I'm gutted. I'm so tired of seeing first Vettel-RB, then Hamilton-Mercedes and now Max-RB win, so tired of seeing Ferrari find ways to fail. No matter what I'm Ferrari for life but damn... when will we win again?

[wisepie]

Speaking of record sales, Ferrari aren't unique in that regard. Luxury sports car market has niche customers, and people who'd buy them can easily afford 100's of them. Others like Lamborghini and Pagani are also having good times.

But I do believe Ferrari's F1 performance is affecting the brand. F1 receives huge social media visibility during race weekends and Ferrari's strategic errors and lack of pace are one of the most talked topics during that time. Reddit is full of meme's making fun of Ferrari, same thing on Twitter as well.

But those things aren't important. The thing that making me most frustrated is the sheer waste of driver talents at Ferrari. It's always the same thing: their outright failure at developing a great car. Sometimes they start the season with great momentum and results, but then lose their way and end the season with the 2nd or 3rd best car. Most of the time they start with a dud and remain in that position.

And how many times are they going to go through this "build-up" period? 2010, 2015. 2017, 2022...all those years were supposed to be the time of Ferrari's resurgence. Just look how 2022 started and where we are right now. And they are going thorugh to that same "buildup" period again. 2024 would be a waste because 2025 would be the year of Ferrari's so-called "resurgence". And the circle will continue.

I'm gutted. I'm so tired of seeing first Vettel-RB, then Hamilton-Mercedes and now Max-RB win, so tired of seeing Ferrari find ways to fail. No matter what I'm Ferrari for life but damn... when will we win again?

I am also Ferrari for life (1967-present!) as I'm sure most of us on this forum are, but the constant merry-go-round of team personnel and lack of leadership is causing all of us to question what is the point, when each year we shoot ourselves in the foot. When will we win again? A miracle is required.

[racingbradley]

I am also Ferrari for life (1967-present!) as I'm sure most of us on this forum are, but the constant merry-go-round of team personnel and lack of leadership is causing all of us to question what is the point, when each year we shoot ourselves in the foot. When will we win again? A miracle is required.

One little race win or two this season would help to cheer us up. :-) :pray

[FerrariF60]

One little race win or two this season would help to cheer us up. :-) :pray

sadly, i can't see that happening....but then again, i've been wrong before....LOL

[Aviamata]

sadly, i can't see that happening....but then again, i've been wrong before....LOL

We will have some chance if Verstappen crash...

[sxviper698]

WOW....you have made a remarkable summery of what we call Ferrari F1 team....i could NOT have put it in better words myself, and i am sure a lot of people on this forum feel this way

it's sad, but maybe Ferrari's aim is to get second place, and fight for that over and over....afterall, it don't seem to affect their road car sales....on contrary, they are cracking record sales quarter after quarter....

so WHO knows when we'll see ferrari win another WCC....as those are WAY more important to me than teh WDC.....of course i would love to see a Ferrari driver win a WDC.....but....when will that happen??? when pigs fly we'll see WCC and WDC trophies back in Maranello.....

SAD BUT TOTALLY TRUE

Because Ferrari are Made in Italy and are the best brand they have been pushed out by Liberty. Moving to the uk won't help that! Honda went from the worst engine on the block to the best engine with HP in the bag and not because they joined redbull is because secrets were given to them by the FIA on behalf of Liberty. Merc were dominating till Liberty came in and slowly reeled them in and punishing Ferrari along the way. Ferrari need to leave F1 and then see how quickly things change when no one watches anymore.

[wisepie]

I would still love to know whether we'd have managed to salvage last season if TD39 hadn't come into play. OK, our reliability and strategic errors caused a lot of grief, but the F1-75 was a great car from the off, so what could have been? And being critical of the Made in Italy attitude of Ferrari and the passion shown by true tifosi are reasons for its mythical status, so enough of the Italy-bashing!

[Aviamata]

They want Made in Italy ? Sure , but currently it's going nowhere and everybody will think that Made in Italy is terrible and trash . They're backfiring themselves !

[RossTheBoss]

Brits rule Formula 1, period. There is no 'if' or 'but' about it. 8 of the 10 F1 teams are based in UK. The combined success of the UK based teams outshines all the others. Engine manufacturers like Honda and Mercedes have their F1 divisions in the UK. Not because they like the gloomy and depressive UK weather, but because the best peoples are here.

Ferrari on the other hand is all about "made in Italy". For Ferrari, national pride and identity is more important than anything else. Things weren't as dire in the past because unrestricted in-season testing was allowed and Ferrari was able to develop its cars by running around the Fiorano track with custom-built Bridgestone rubbers 24X7. But even then it struggled massively, until the addition of Todt, Brawn and Bryne.

But current F1 is more about level playing field. And Ferrari is getting outplayed in every department. From race management to car development, its behind everywhere. Ferrari is getting ridiculed everywhere because of their incompetence and it can't utilize the sheer talents of its drivers.

So, I will say it again. As long as Ferrari stays in Italy, it will not win a single damn thing. F1 is ultra competitive and you can't expect to "win" anything by employing people who are clearly 2nd or 3rd best. Look at RB, Newey's influence is ubiquitous. Ferrari tried their best to hire him multiple times but failed, simply because Newey never have had any intention of moving to Italy. And it's not just Newey, all the top talents of F1 have also done the same thing and refused to join Ferrari.

Ferrari can easily afford to set up their main F1 base in the UK but they aren't going to do it. Simply because "made in Italy" is more important than winning titles.
Ferrari already tried having operations in the UK with John Barnard. It made no performance difference. In fact, it made development more difficult in some ways. Moving a base to the UK isn't as simple "Hey, guys lets move to the UK!". It costs money and time, and there are no ROI guarantees. Lots of manufactures don't want to spend the resources required to enter into the UK. Porsche, BMW, Peugeot, Toyota, and GM don't want anything to do with that noise either.

I'm not saying Ferrari leadership aren't clowns at times, but the F1 that I grew up with that had screaming high powered engines, light and nimble cars, and teams working nights testing are long gone. Back then, it was the likes of Ferrari and BMW building high performance cars, to sell high performance cars. Now, a friggin' energy drink company and Mercedes in name only team are catered to, and bulky looking cars that can barely keep up with pace of the machines of 20 years ago, with stupid DRS, and DTS fan boys have taken over.

Luca mentioned the other day that 50% of racing is the politics. Ferrari failed at that a long ago. First the tire rules in 05', then the ban aero body work, then the ban on in season testing, then the switch to little turbos, then Mercedes allowed to burn oil illegally, then this absurd era of ground effect cars like it's 1982, and don't forget TD39 the second Ferrari found another loophole in the rules.

Ferrari keep getting screwed by F1's overlords. The latter do no respect the former in any capacity. Much as I hate to say it, even when/if Ferrari have a break through year, you can count on the British teams petitioning that Ferrari's advantage be banned, and Ferrari will bend over and take it.

I remember what Rob Clarke said when Honda exited out of CART/Indycar "We can't participate in a series we don't trust". That's really where Ferrari are at right now. They can't trust the F1 circus anymore, and really they should consider withdrawing from F1 and back WEC as a proper racing series instead. But then, Ferrari are gluttons for punishment and the abusive relationship the find themselves in right now.

If Ferrari are to win in F1 they have to make demands that their strengths (in season testing and the like) are allowed to be part of the equation in F1. Otherwise, they'll win grand prix, but they won't win titles any time soon.

[jgonzalesm6]

Ferrari already tried having operations in the UK with John Barnard. It made no performance difference. In fact, it made development more difficult in some ways. Moving a base to the UK isn't as simple "Hey, guys lets move to the UK!". It costs money and time, and there are no ROI guarantees. Lots of manufactures don't want to spend the resources required to enter into the UK. Porsche, BMW, Peugeot, Toyota, and GM don't want anything to do with that noise either.

I'm not saying Ferrari leadership aren't clowns at times, but the F1 that I grew up with that had screaming high powered engines, light and nimble cars, and teams working nights testing are long gone. Back then, it was the likes of Ferrari and BMW building high performance cars, to sell high performance cars. Now, a friggin' energy drink company and Mercedes in name only team are catered to, and bulky looking cars that can barely keep up with pace of the machines of 20 years ago, with stupid DRS, and DTS fan boys have taken over.

Luca mentioned the other day that 50% of racing is the politics. Ferrari failed at that a long ago. First the tire rules in 05', then the ban aero body work, then the ban on in season testing, then the switch to little turbos, then Mercedes allowed to burn oil illegally, then this absurd era of ground effect cars like it's 1982, and don't forget TD39 the second Ferrari found another loophole in the rules.

Ferrari keep getting screwed by F1's overlords. The latter do no respect the former in any capacity. Much as I hate to say it, even when/if Ferrari have a break through year, you can count on the British teams petitioning that Ferrari's advantage be banned, and Ferrari will bend over and take it.

I remember what Rob Clarke said when Honda exited out of CART/Indycar "We can't participate in a series we don't trust". That's really where Ferrari are at right now. They can't trust the F1 circus anymore, and really they should consider withdrawing from F1 and back WEC as a proper racing series instead. But then, Ferrari are gluttons for punishment and the abusive relationship the find themselves in right now.

If Ferrari are to win in F1 they have to make demands that their strengths (in season testing and the like) are allowed to be part of the equation in F1. Otherwise, they'll win grand prix, but they won't win titles any time soon.

Look, I understand the "Barnard" days with the GTO(UK base) days are long gone and dusted but that argument or debate is not going to fly if you're going to make a comparison between THEN and NOW.

We are in a new era of F1 that's more technical and that technical pool resides in the U.K........always has been for the last 15 years or so.

1) Honda entered F1 as an engine supplier in 2015 with hardly any help and very little knowledge of the turbo-hybrid PU and you couple that with the marriage of Mclaren(Oh, the Prost/Senna years are back....yeah right) didn't help out Honda. So Honda decided to puts it resources in Milton Keynes and put out ads to come work for Honda in Milton Keynes. Honda at the same time, copied the Mercedes split turbo design in 2017 and that's also when Mclaren and Honda decided to split their ways. Honda then joined Toro Rosso/Alpha Tauri and it was a marriage made in heaven which then streamed into RedBull since Toro Rosso/Alpha Tauri are RedBull's B team. RedBull takes the fight to Mercedes in 2021 and wins. This is Honda whom is based in Japan decided to open up shop in Milton Keynes. They faced humiliation at first with Mclaren, but in 2021 and currently Honda has proved their engines are F1 worthy are will probably supply engines to other F1 teams in the coming years(2026).

2) RedBull and Mercedes engineers (aero, structural and mechanical) and strategists are moving amongst the teams based in the UK. They're are either top tier engineers and 2nd top tier engineers. Why are they moving amongst the F1 teams in the UK? Because of more money being offered by these various teams in the UK and because of locality and most importantly because some, if not most of these engineers, have family that have resided in the UK. Ferrari F1 USED to get the best of these F1 engineers, but not any more and it mostly has to do with locality.

3) Jordan-->Midland-->Spyker-->Force India-->Racing Point-->Aston Martin......that's the lineage of this current F1 team. Not much happened when it was Jordan then Midland then Spyker and when it became Force India under VJM(Vijay) it was a good little team(400 people) punching above it's weight in 4th or 5th place. Then Lawrence Stroll took it over in 2018 and changed the name to Racing Point and finally settled with Aston Martin. After poaching some high level engineers from RedBull and Mercedes, the team currently(2023) is a 3rd place contender after 10 races in the season. AMRF1 could be a 2nd place contender in the WCC rankings if it wasn't for Lawrence Stroll's son (that's another story in its entirety). So in 6 years time, Lawrence Stroll has managed to turn the team around with less of a budget than Ferrari and less knowledge of Ferrari F1 and his drivers are his son(ugggh, what a waste) and an "over-the-hill-you're-too-old-to-be-in-F1" Alonso that still has skills. Meanwhile, Ferrari F1 is trying to still find itself after Kimi won a WDC title some 15 or 16 years ago and since then, cannot get a stable environment in F1 with regards to team principles and cannot the best of the best in engineers while located in Italy in this current environment.

This whole notion that F1 is politics and blah, blah, blah. If Lawrence Stroll can do it, then Ferrari can do it as well.....just not in Italy.

Porsche(VAG) wanted to join F1 in 2026 but wanted too much of the pie from RedBull and RedBull turned that down in a hearbeat. So now Audi, part of the VAG group, will be joining F1 for 2026 and quite possibly will do it the smart way and take over an existing F1 team(Alfa Romeo-Sauber).

Andretti-GM (General Motors i.e. Cadillac) are still TRYING to get into F1 but is meeting resistance from "the club" (F1 teams like Mercedes) and they allege that F1 is a "European" members only club.

BMW unfortunately, will not be joining F1 anymore.....why should they? They are doing just fine in other motorsports and feel "they have nothing to prove in F1." Their production cars, SUV's and motorcycles speak for themselves.

Toyota, along with BMW, got hit with the financial crisis in 2008 and they too won't be joining F1 anymore either. They too are doing fine in their production cars and SUV's.

If I may add, HAAS F1 is based in North Carolina BUUUUUUT have a facility in Banbury England UK. Yes, they are not winning but HAAS F1 don't have the financial backing like Ferrari and Lawrence Stroll to attract engineers to punch above the top tier group....plus HAAS F1 pretty much outsources everything to build it's F1 cars in this current F1 environment.

[RossTheBoss]

Look, I understand the "Barnard" days with the GTO(UK base) days are long gone and dusted but that argument or debate is not going to fly if you're going to make a comparison between THEN and NOW.

We are in a new era of F1 that's more technical and that technical pool resides in the U.K........always has been for the last 15 years or so.

1) Honda entered F1 as an engine supplier in 2015 with hardly any help and very little knowledge of the turbo-hybrid PU and you couple that with the marriage of Mclaren(Oh, the Prost/Senna years are back....yeah right) didn't help out Honda. So Honda decided to puts it resources in Milton Keynes and put out ads to come work for Honda in Milton Keynes. Honda at the same time, copied the Mercedes split turbo design in 2017 and that's also when Mclaren and Honda decided to split their ways. Honda then joined Toro Rosso/Alpha Tauri and it was a marriage made in heaven which then streamed into RedBull since Toro Rosso/Alpha Tauri are RedBull's B team. RedBull takes the fight to Mercedes in 2021 and wins. This is Honda whom is based in Japan decided to open up shop in Milton Keynes. They faced humiliation at first with Mclaren, but in 2021 and currently Honda has proved their engines are F1 worthy are will probably supply engines to other F1 teams in the coming years(2026).

2) RedBull and Mercedes engineers (aero, structural and mechanical) and strategists are moving amongst the teams based in the UK. They're are either top tier engineers and 2nd top tier engineers. Why are they moving amongst the F1 teams in the UK? Because of more money being offered by these various teams in the UK and because of locality and most importantly because some, if not most of these engineers, have family that have resided in the UK. Ferrari F1 USED to get the best of these F1 engineers, but not any more and it mostly has to do with locality.

3) Jordan-->Midland-->Spyker-->Force India-->Racing Point-->Aston Martin......that's the lineage of this current F1 team. Not much happened when it was Jordan then Midland then Spyker and when it became Force India under VJM(Vijay) it was a good little team(400 people) punching above it's weight in 4th or 5th place. Then Lawrence Stroll took it over in 2018 and changed the name to Racing Point and finally settled with Aston Martin. After poaching some high level engineers from RedBull and Mercedes, the team currently(2023) is a 3rd place contender after 10 races in the season. AMRF1 could be a 2nd place contender in the WCC rankings if it wasn't for Lawrence Stroll's son (that's another story in its entirety). So in 6 years time, Lawrence Stroll has managed to turn the team around with less of a budget than Ferrari and less knowledge of Ferrari F1 and his drivers are his son(ugggh, what a waste) and an "over-the-hill-you're-too-old-to-be-in-F1" Alonso that still has skills. Meanwhile, Ferrari F1 is trying to still find itself after Kimi won a WDC title some 15 or 16 years ago and since then, cannot get a stable environment in F1 with regards to team principles and cannot the best of the best in engineers while located in Italy in this current environment.

This whole notion that F1 is politics and blah, blah, blah. If Lawrence Stroll can do it, then Ferrari can do it as well.....just not in Italy.

Porsche(VAG) wanted to join F1 in 2026 but wanted too much of the pie from RedBull and RedBull turned that down in a hearbeat. So now Audi, part of the VAG group, will be joining F1 for 2026 and quite possibly will do it the smart way and take over an existing F1 team(Alfa Romeo-Sauber).

Andretti-GM (General Motors i.e. Cadillac) are still TRYING to get into F1 but is meeting resistance from "the club" (F1 teams like Mercedes) and they allege that F1 is a "European" members only club.

BMW unfortunately, will not be joining F1 anymore.....why should they? They are doing just fine in other motorsports and feel "they have nothing to prove in F1." Their production cars, SUV's and motorcycles speak for themselves.

Toyota, along with BMW, got hit with the financial crisis in 2008 and they too won't be joining F1 anymore either. They too are doing fine in their production cars and SUV's.

If I may add, HAAS F1 is based in North Carolina BUUUUUUT have a facility in Banbury England UK. Yes, they are not winning but HAAS F1 don't have the financial backing like Ferrari and Lawrence Stroll to attract engineers to punch above the top tier group....plus HAAS F1 pretty much outsources everything to build it's F1 cars in this current F1 environment.
Um, Ferrari really don't have anything to prove in F1 anymore either. Much as we hate the current status, they'll always be that team that won in F1's glory days; the team that Michael Schumacher went to the top with. Their road cars also speak for themselves. If they wanted, they could withdraw from F1 tomorrow, and it wouldn't effect their car sales one bit. They could satisfy their racing itches elsewhere, and be just fine.

The UK argument is no different now that it was when Barnard opened a facility for Ferrari. All the money in the world was thrown at it, and it didn't work. The idea that great motorsports talent only resides in the UK is foolish. There are tons of great designers in Germany, France, and yes, Italy. If you look, many of those talents working in the UK are from those places originality, and in fact Ferrari's dream team was mostly composed of people outside the UK.

The problem for Ferrari is deeper than that. Since F1 has gone to simulation based development, Ferrari has always had a bitch of a time correlating what they see on their computers, compared to what they see on race day. The dreams teams success wasn't down to Schumi, Brawn, or Byrne. Ferrari's strength always was that they could roll out their development ideas from their factory the evening they were made, straight to their tracks, then test, test, and test until it worked. Look at WEC and the 24 Hours Of Le Mans. When Ferrari are allowed to utilize that strength, they're capable of great things. But as things stand they pee peed away the biggest strength they had, and they've never recovered. Schumi and Brawn would've been screwed in this era.

Now, there's an argument that UK talent is better equipped to handle simulation style development, and that Ferrari should consider a facility in the UK for that. But like I said, Ferrari's secret recipe is real track testing. I can guarantee you, if Ferrari's technical talent had the ability to test, it would be a magic turn around. One you'd notice in just a season.

And on Aston, get back to me when they win a race. Right now they're falling like a stone.

[Aviamata]

Um, Ferrari really don't have anything to prove in F1 anymore either. Much as we hate the current status, they'll always be that team that won in F1's glory days; the team that Michael Schumacher went to the top with. Their road cars also speak for themselves. If they wanted, they could withdraw from F1 tomorrow, and it wouldn't effect their car sales one bit. They could satisfy their racing itches elsewhere, and be just fine.

The UK argument is no different now that it was when Barnard opened a facility for Ferrari. All the money in the world was thrown at it, and it didn't work. The idea that great motorsports talent only resides in the UK is foolish. There are tons of great designers in Germany, France, and yes, Italy. If you look, many of those talents working in the UK are from those places originality, and in fact Ferrari's dream team was mostly composed of people outside the UK.

The problem for Ferrari is deeper than that. Since F1 has gone to simulation based development, Ferrari has always had a bitch of a time correlating what they see on their computers, compared to what they see on race day. The dreams teams success wasn't down to Schumi, Brawn, or Byrne. Ferrari's strength always was that they could roll out their development ideas from their factory the evening they were made, straight to their tracks, then test, test, and test until it worked. Look at WEC and the 24 Hours Of Le Mans. When Ferrari are allowed to utilize that strength, they're capable of great things. But as things stand they pee peed away the biggest strength they had, and they've never recovered. Schumi and Brawn would've been screwed in this era.

Now, there's an argument that UK talent is better equipped to handle simulation style development, and that Ferrari should consider a facility in the UK for that. But like I said, Ferrari's secret recipe is real track testing. I can guarantee you, if Ferrari's technical talent had the ability to test, it would be a magic turn around. One you'd notice in just a season.

And on Aston, get back to me when they win a race. Right now they're falling like a stone.

Sadly we have to get used to it , they must somehow learn how to using simulators correctly as i don't see any chances about too much real track testing in the future . If English can do it then Italian can too , by good engineering education . Ferrari Driver Academy is doing very well and what about a Ferrari Engineer Academy or an Engineering College run by Ferrari ?

[RossTheBoss]

Sadly we have to get used to it , they must somehow learn how to using simulators correctly as i don't see any chances about too much real track testing in the future . If English can do it then Italian can too , by good engineering education . Ferrari Driver Academy is doing very well and what about a Ferrari Engineer Academy or an Engineering College run by Ferrari ?
The UK teams are the ones that realized that Ferrari's testing machine was a beast they had to stop. Even Newey was no match against it once it was perfected. Nothing beats real world testing, where you can roll the car straight out of the factory and start conducting laps.

Every racing organization has its strengths and weaknesses. Mercedes is power units, Red Bull is aero, and Ferrari's was testing. The latter totally forfeited their strength in the most massive self own in motorsports.

Ferrari don't have to get used to it. At any time, they could threaten their withdrawal from F1 if their interests are not respected. Renault did it, Red Bull did it. If Ferrari announced they were exiting F1, and taking their full operations to WEC or some other racing series, overnight F1 would implode. The DTS fans would be gone. Races would be cancelled, TV contracts and prize money would be in jeopardy. F1 needs Ferrari for more than Ferrari need F1, but for some reason, Ferrari lack the political spine to use this leverage over the sport in the way they need to in order for their strengths to shine.

[jgonzalesm6]

Um, Ferrari really don't have anything to prove in F1 anymore either. Much as we hate the current status, they'll always be that team that won in F1's glory days; the team that Michael Schumacher went to the top with. Their road cars also speak for themselves. If they wanted, they could withdraw from F1 tomorrow, and it wouldn't effect their car sales one bit. They could satisfy their racing itches elsewhere, and be just fine.

The UK argument is no different now that it was when Barnard opened a facility for Ferrari. All the money in the world was thrown at it, and it didn't work. The idea that great motorsports talent only resides in the UK is foolish. There are tons of great designers in Germany, France, and yes, Italy. If you look, many of those talents working in the UK are from those places originality, and in fact Ferrari's dream team was mostly composed of people outside the UK.

The problem for Ferrari is deeper than that. Since F1 has gone to simulation based development, Ferrari has always had a bitch of a time correlating what they see on their computers, compared to what they see on race day. The dreams teams success wasn't down to Schumi, Brawn, or Byrne. Ferrari's strength always was that they could roll out their development ideas from their factory the evening they were made, straight to their tracks, then test, test, and test until it worked. Look at WEC and the 24 Hours Of Le Mans. When Ferrari are allowed to utilize that strength, they're capable of great things. But as things stand they pee peed away the biggest strength they had, and they've never recovered. Schumi and Brawn would've been screwed in this era.

Now, there's an argument that UK talent is better equipped to handle simulation style development, and that Ferrari should consider a facility in the UK for that. But like I said, Ferrari's secret recipe is real track testing. I can guarantee you, if Ferrari's technical talent had the ability to test, it would be a magic turn around. One you'd notice in just a season.

And on Aston, get back to me when they win a race. Right now they're falling like a stone.

Ferrari WILL NOT quit F1.

That being said, in the last 10 years 2 teams have progressed to run at the top-->RedBull and Aston Martin. RedBull makes its own engines now. Aston Martin is losing points for 2023 because of Lance Stroll and dropping in the WCC standings. ALPHA-Lonso is carrying over 75% of the teams points. AMRF1 are currently finishing an F1 facility near Silverstone.

No one, at the moment, is going to beat Max and win a race.

Get back to me when a powerhouse like Ferrari wins a WDC or WCC title.

[Aviamata]

The UK teams are the ones that realized that Ferrari's testing machine was a beast they had to stop. Even Newey was no match against it once it was perfected. Nothing beats real world testing, where you can roll the car straight out of the factory and start conducting laps.

Every racing organization has its strengths and weaknesses. Mercedes is power units, Red Bull is aero, and Ferrari's was testing. The latter totally forfeited their strength in the most massive self own in motorsports.

Ferrari don't have to get used to it. At any time, they could threaten their withdrawal from F1 if their interests are not respected. Renault did it, Red Bull did it. If Ferrari announced they were exiting F1, and taking their full operations to WEC or some other racing series, overnight F1 would implode. The DTS fans would be gone. Races would be cancelled, TV contracts and prize money would be in jeopardy. F1 needs Ferrari for more than Ferrari need F1, but for some reason, Ferrari lack the political spine to use this leverage over the sport in the way they need to in order for their strengths to shine.

Back in the day , Enzo used to threaten FIA to accept his favourite V12s . Now Elkan can't do anything other than sacking Team Principle...

[Brembo]

Ferrari fans favorite driver is Charles! Until he can out drive with more points and finish ahead of Carlos ; Ferrari will suffer fan wise. There's no room for team orders as far as who is deserving.

[Brembo]

If Carlos should win a race Ferrari fans will just move on to the next race; with no mention of Carlos' win. The car; the pit stop ; the tires ; whatever it takes to keep Charles as the !!!! should have won driver. More than the gas in the car ; that mentality is what fuels Carlos ! Points ! WCC !

[Brembo]

If Carlos should win a race Ferrari fans will just move on to the next race; with no mention of Carlos' win. The car; the pit stop ; the tires ; whatever it takes to keep Charles as the !!!! should have won driver. More than the gas in the car ; that mentality is what fuels Carlos ! Points ! WCC ! Neither Lewis; Max; Charles or Carlos want to change teams any time soon. A podium win is the best that will happen unless Alonso can get lucky too!

[tifosi1993]

They should pull a Aston Martin and copy-paste the RB19 for next year's car. They are incapable of developing the fastest car/concept, so they should throw whatever "pride" they have in the bin and start following the aero master Newey.
Aston and Mclaren both have already proven that copy-posting the RB is the way to go.

[FerrariF60]

They should pull a Aston Martin and copy-paste the RB19 for next year's car. They are incapable of developing the fastest car/concept, so they should throw whatever "pride" they have in the bin and start following the aero master Newey.
Aston and Mclaren both have already proven that copy-posting the RB is the way to go.

i'm with you on this, but Ferrari is too proud in not doing this and do their own mediocre work instead.....hence not winning anything for more then 15 years and counting

[tifosi1993]

i'm with you on this, but Ferrari is too proud in not doing this and do their own mediocre work instead.....hence not winning anything for more then 15 years and counting

Yeah. It is indeed quite arrogant attitude from those people who haven't achieved anything in F1. Yes, Ferrari is the most successful team in F1 and working there is a thing of pride. But the current bunch has been nothing but failure and dragging Ferrari's name through the mud due to their incompetence.

Mclaren have already brought two major upgrades this year and each upgrade made them gain huge performance uplift. From zero points to finishing P2 and P4 in one of the fastest and complete track in F1. Ferrari on the other hand, even with all the upgrades, is stayed the same. Good on Saturdays most of the time, and occasionally good on Sundays. But still no answers to Red Bull's pace.

This team, or more precisely, the people it employs, is not going to win titles in F1. With Luck, it may be able to win an odd race or two but that's about it. All the best and talented peoples are working for our rivals. And with budget cap, all the shortcomings that have been plaguing this team since 2009 are out in the open. It can no longer pour millions of dollars and lift itself from predicaments as it used to.

[RossTheBoss]

Yeah. It is indeed quite arrogant attitude from those people who haven't achieved anything in F1. Yes, Ferrari is the most successful team in F1 and working there is a thing of pride. But the current bunch has been nothing but failure and dragging Ferrari's name through the mud due to their incompetence.

Mclaren have already brought two major upgrades this year and each upgrade made them gain huge performance uplift. From zero points to finishing P2 and P4 in one of the fastest and complete track in F1. Ferrari on the other hand, even with all the upgrades, is stayed the same. Good on Saturdays most of the time, and occasionally good on Sundays. But still no answers to Red Bull's pace.

This team, or more precisely, the people it employs, is not going to win titles in F1. With Luck, it may be able to win an odd race or two but that's about it. All the best and talented peoples are working for our rivals. And with budget cap, all the shortcomings that have been plaguing this team since 2009 are out in the open. It can no longer pour millions of dollars and lift itself from predicaments as it used to.
Well, lets wait and see if McLaren's pace last more than one race before we praise them.

Ferrari's problem deepest problem isn't the people. Don't get me wrong, Binotto and Reuda went around in clown shoes. But even before them, Ferrari had talent. Allison, Tombazis, and Fry were not idiots. They've succeeded in the past and with other teams (Allison).

It's the equipment. Ferrari's simulator rigs are garbage. Even the best technical minds are going to struggle with it. Newey embraced the era of simulation, and has mastered it in a way that Ferrari have never been able to.

Ferrari's strength is real world testing at their tracks. That was the Ferrari magic. Make it at the factory, test it within literally hours of it being fabricated. We can see that magic can still work when you look at how awesome Ferrari is in WEC right now. If Ferrari allowed just say, 500-1000km of testing, overnight the team what transform - guarantee it.

The problem is the political leadership sucks. They're unwilling to do what Red Bull have done twice now: threaten to leave F1 if they're not accommodated.

The team deserve a lot of criticism, but much of their struggles are down to political loses.

[FerrariF60]

Yeah. It is indeed quite arrogant attitude from those people who haven't achieved anything in F1. Yes, Ferrari is the most successful team in F1 and working there is a thing of pride. But the current bunch has been nothing but failure and dragging Ferrari's name through the mud due to their incompetence.

Mclaren have already brought two major upgrades this year and each upgrade made them gain huge performance uplift. From zero points to finishing P2 and P4 in one of the fastest and complete track in F1. Ferrari on the other hand, even with all the upgrades, is stayed the same. Good on Saturdays most of the time, and occasionally good on Sundays. But still no answers to Red Bull's pace.

This team, or more precisely, the people it employs, is not going to win titles in F1. With Luck, it may be able to win an odd race or two but that's about it. All the best and talented peoples are working for our rivals. And with budget cap, all the shortcomings that have been plaguing this team since 2009 are out in the open. It can no longer pour millions of dollars and lift itself from predicaments as it used to.

i totally agree with you on all your points you just made

a lot of people of this forum like to sugar coat the performance Ferrari has put as of late AND/OR for the past 15 years, and they think that yeah, is OK'ish when in reality they just absolutely SUCK....and with the mentality they have, its' gonna take them another couple of decades before they'll win another championship, IF EVER....

i'm a die hard ferrari fan, and i understand that we must go through bad periods before it gets better....but that BETTER, when is it gonna come????

OK, rant over....

[Ferrari312T4]

Our strategy is a hit or a total miss. Last race at Silverstone they threw away a lot of points by pitting early and making bad tire choices. It's like they are napping and not reading the race as it unfolds on track. Perez could go ridiculously long on those new model Pirelli tires. Didn't he start on softs? However we couldn't match the pace of RB or McLaren's anyway.

And its pretty clear that we are missing on aero and strategy. Fred has some hiring and firing to do. Perhaps losing Laurent Mekkies to Alpha Tauri is a blessing in disguise.

[Brembo]

Charles has $20 million locked up thru 2024 @ Ferrari and he loves being there so he says. All he seems to have to do is show up. Let Carlos score the points for 1/2 the pay! Then there's Fred; What a team! Seb had to be really at peace with his 4WDCs and his pay to let Charles beat him up like he did @ Ferrari. Lewis is also in a great spot @ Merc. getting paid to play !

[PURE PASSION]

Fred Vasseur's message to the Ferrari technical team is clear: the team wants to experiment with solutions on the SF-23 EVO to understand its behavior and make corrections to the 2024 project which will be entirely different.
Ι really like Vasseur's new mindset!!! THIS is the way to improve and how someone should work to find/correct any problems. The onlt question is our people's quality!!! Do they have the ability to find a smart solution and design a championship winning car ???
After all this years of disappointments and fails and people fired etc etc , the team is in the bottom of engineers choice, and the drivers dont make a line to came either !! But IF we manage to be truly and steady competitors with a friendly -steady environment in the factory, i think all the bad carma will turn shortly!!!!

[Aviamata]

Ι really like Vasseur's new mindset!!! THIS is the way to improve and how someone should work to find/correct any problems. The onlt question is our people's quality!!! Do they have the ability to find a smart solution and design a championship winning car ???
After all this years of disappointments and fails and people fired etc etc , the team is in the bottom of engineers choice, and the drivers dont make a line to came either !! But IF we manage to be truly and steady competitors with a friendly -steady environment in the factory, i think all the bad carma will turn shortly!!!!

I can't just take Fred's words entirely . Keep in mind that he is very good at calming the Italian media .

[PURE PASSION]

I can't just take Fred's words entirely . Keep in mind that he is very good at calming the Italian media .

Perhaps. Just need any good news to raise my hopes/mood a bit because I read bad news- rumors about every day.

[racingbradley]

Perhaps. Just need any good news to raise my hopes/mood a bit because I read bad news- rumors about every day.

Ferrari will improve. They cannot get any worse so the only way is up. :-)

[paolo lalli]

If the italian media backed off somewhat it would be a massive plus for ferrari,any opportunity that arises to kick ferrari to the kerb they will always have and always will.

[Brembo]

If the italian media backed off somewhat it would be a massive plus for ferrari,any opportunity that arises to kick ferrari to the kerb they will always have and always will.

They are getting their info from this forum!!!

[tifosi1993]

And how on earth Italian media would know about Fred's message to his colleagues and staffs? Another clickbait rubbish.

[tifosi1993]

Ferrari will improve. They cannot get any worse so the only way is up. :-)

Oh it can go much worse.

Ferrari had already "enjoyed" quite a few up-down period since 2008. Let's just say, their "down period" was quite down and their "on the rise" period was not that high.

[Aviamata]

Oh it can go much worse.

Ferrari had already "enjoyed" quite a few up-down period since 2008. Let's just say, their "down period" was quite down and their "on the rise" period was not that high.

Ferrari is the team that has the most ''If'' scenario relevant to WDC/WCC since 2008 . These ''down period'' just ruined everything

[racingbradley]

Oh it can go much worse.

Ferrari had already "enjoyed" quite a few up-down period since 2008. Let's just say, their "down period" was quite down and their "on the rise" period was not that high.

I was trying to be optimistic but seems it back fired.;-)

[Brembo]

I was trying to be optimistic but seems it back fired.;-)

I agree with you; think positive at the start of each race. I really don't want either of our drivers to leave Ferrari. They are winners given a winning car!

[wisepie]

We all try to think positive, hard though it is when our team manages to mess things up so often, our drivers are not the problem, but optimism is always tempered by doubt, sadly!

[RM-Ferrari]

So it seems the "Top Guy" Vasseur was talking about is Loic Serra, not Pierre Wache :Hmm

https://scuderiafans.com/revealed-who-is-fred-vasseurs-top-guy-engineer-signed-by-ferrari-to-work-on-2025-car/

[racingbradley]

We all try to think positive, hard though it is when our team manages to mess things up so often, our drivers are not the problem, but optimism is always tempered by doubt, sadly!

You are going all physiological on us Wisepie. ;-) But yes optimism in this instance is tempered with fear that it could go back to say 2014 when Williams were passing us on the track. :-s

[Aviamata]

So it seems the "Top Guy" Vasseur was talking about is Loic Serra, not Pierre Wache :Hmm

https://scuderiafans.com/revealed-who-is-fred-vasseurs-top-guy-engineer-signed-by-ferrari-to-work-on-2025-car/

Definitely not some top RB guy . Horner won't allow us to do that

[Brembo]

I believe Charles wants to be #1 driver and is fighting hard for it. Carlos wants a pay raise equal to Charles and will fight for it on the track. Ferrari will not let either driver go; I hope! I'll be happy with the results being podiums or a win! If risking a driver safe DNF is what it takes ; go for it. Max did it coming up. Our drivers NEED a winning car! Meanwhile @ R Bull the big question is should they let Perez win another race or not. Dan is not any better than Perez.

[JacKy]

Close this thread already.

I don’t think we’ll see any big upgrade on this car from now on.

Dead Project.

[Aviamata]

Close this thread already.

I don’t think we’ll see any big upgrade on this car from now on.

Dead Project.

Absolutely , let's waiting for next year car and let's see how the first non-Binotto car will perform

[paolo lalli]

And the year after and the year after that.

[FerrariF60]

And the year after and the year after that.

exactly my thoughts....been saying that saying "like a broken vinyl" since 2009

[Brembo]

At Ferrari $$ wise; "Working can wait; this is paradise!! " Only Carlos needs a raise.

[paolo lalli]

No doubt it's tough times at ferrari and sure there have been monumental errors at all levels but surely there must be light at the end of this very long dark tunnel.Fred says ferrari are pushing like crazy to catch up the only thing is every body must push together and in the same direction.The push is for next year and recruiting of personnel is moving along nicely.The remainder of the year will be dignity thing for ferrari and to finish the rest of the season on a positive note.The current rules in f1 mean that if you produce a bad car from the start it will haunt and burden you all season long as is the case currently. The only way is up fans and use the remainder of the season to grow as a complete f1 team so next year ferrari can hit the ground running its been done before it can and will be done again.As always expect the unexpected.

[Decoded]

8209

[Aviamata]

No Charles is too slow!

[BRP]

You are obsessedwith the number 2 driver
He is Charles butler but Cottas is even better than him

[BRP]

**Bottas

[Brembo]

Charles says he does not think he can win this race from pole. Carlos will try and win from where he starts. Charles gets that big pay check regardless! I'm hoping this will be a race without Max winning.

[Aviamata]

Charles says he does not think he can win this race from pole. Carlos will try and win from where he starts. Charles gets that big pay check regardless! I'm hoping this will be a race without Max winning.

If both Red Bull crashed , everybody will have a chance

[Brembo]

The fight to finish the season 3rd is the new almost WDC for 2023. 4 top drivers fighting for that finish. I believe Max deserves the win!

[nani_s23]

Ferrari: another major development package is expected. The SF-23 is more stable. The technical service will complete the installation of the new parts at the end of September and the beginning of October with a package said to be more substantial than the one already presented in Barcelona.

@Formu1a.uno

[paolo lalli]

Thats pretty much right a great fight for third position and a very slim chance of second from ferrari.Max definitely deserves the title flawless week in week out RB the same.

[FerrariF60]

the upgrades ferrari has brought so far to each race up to last race

8211

[FerrariF60]

According to scuderiafans there are new sidepods due for Monza! I know these sources aren’t reliable, but rumored pods are supposedly moving in a more extreme direction. I wonder which extreme direction they will move in given the SIS constraints

[paolo lalli]

Wow the ceo of ferrari that vigna should have been a novel writer the crap he goes on with concerning the season report card so far according to captain obvious is not up to standard well hello tell us something we do not already know Mr vigna,your words may be poetic and strong but offer no solutions just words.Advice stay out of the kitchen at ferrari better still go and watch that other train wreck uventus play soccer with elkan.Oh how the mighty have fallen.

[Brembo]

Ferrari is 56 pts out of 2nd pl. And just 5pts out of 3rd. Their's hope ! Can R Bull stay that strong? While AM is just Alonso who BTW gets $5 million pay. Alonso@ 5 Million and Carlos @ 12 million salaries combined equal 17 Million total. That's 7 Million less than the 24 million salary Charles gets from Ferrari . Monaco born is a big deal! Meanwhile Albon's salary just @ 3 million may be reason enough for Ferrari to take him on. R Bull; Ferrari; Merc only have #2 driver openings. Moving over is a tough call to give atop contender.

[paolo lalli]

Ferrari will have a positive 2nd half of the season after summer break.There is lots to play for and millions of Euro dollars there for the taking as prize money.The battle for 2nd 3rd and 4th and 5th will be intense.We may even see a chink in the redbull armour appear.

[Brembo]

Dream Teams : Alonso & Carlos Ferrari, Max & Lewis R Bull, Charles & Perez Alpha. If not Alonso ; Russell & Carlos @ Ferrari !

[FerrariF60]

Dream Teams : Alonso & Carlos Ferrari, Max & Lewis R Bull, Charles & Perez Alpha.

you i$d#i@o& this is SF23 discussion tread.....NOT your wet dream driver pair up.....grow up ya loser

[paolo lalli]

Ferrari are on the right path finally.All the Ferrari sledging from past chiefs at ferrari,is just pure motivation to prove those numpties wrong.The ferrari past is the past and now the new future is being hatched.Sure it will take a little time but it will happen rest assured besides I enjoy a phoenix rising from the ashes.

[stefa]

Dear all,

As I am travelling next week to Milan, and going to Monza on Sunday, I need friendly advice on what is the best position to watch race with General Admission ticket?

THANK YOU!!!

[FerrariF60]

Dear all,

As I am travelling next week to Milan, and going to Monza on Sunday, I need friendly advice on what is the best position to watch race with General Admission ticket?

THANK YOU!!!

Hi Stefa,

i can't give you any advice on the sitting situation, as i've never been to Monza....but i HOPE you're gonna have FUN watching the race LIVE....(not like me on the sofa in front of my 80" UHD TV....lol....) so yeah, on that part i'm kind of jealous...

but i truly hope you're gonna have fun and hopefully our drivers will be on the podium, if not both drivers, maybe one of them...as for a WIN on our part is pretty unlikely due to that ROCKET SHIP Max is driving....

FORZA FERRARI!!!

[stefa]

Hi Stefa,

i can't give you any advice on the sitting situation, as i've never been to Monza....but i HOPE you're gonna have FUN watching the race LIVE....(not like me on the sofa in front of my 80" UHD TV....lol....) so yeah, on that part i'm kind of jealous...

but i truly hope you're gonna have fun and hopefully our drivers will be on the podium, if not both drivers, maybe one of them...as for a WIN on our part is pretty unlikely due to that ROCKET SHIP Max is driving....

FORZA FERRARI!!!

Thank you!!!

I hope we will both enjoy that weekend!!!

:ferrarifl

[wisepie]

Dear all,

As I am travelling next week to Milan, and going to Monza on Sunday, I need friendly advice on what is the best position to watch race with General Admission ticket?

THANK YOU!!!

Hi Stefa, I went to Monza with a general admission ticket but it was back in 2013, so things may have changed by now. We tried to find a good viewing point but it was pretty hard to find an area which wasn't already very busy with little chance of getting a seat anywhere, we were on the inside of the circuit mostly at Variante Ascari where we could only see the drivers' helmets fly by, luckily there was a giant TV screen opposite so at least we knew what was happening! I am sure there are other tifosi with more recent experience of the circuit, but despite not getting much of a clear view of the race, it was the atmosphere that counted and of course the scramble onto the main straight for the podium presentation. Have a great time and Forza Ferrari!

[Brembo]

you i$d#i@o& this is SF23 discussion tread.....NOT your wet dream driver pair up.....grow up ya loser

[gimeagui]

Dear all,

As I am travelling next week to Milan, and going to Monza on Sunday, I need friendly advice on what is the best position to watch race with General Admission ticket?

THANK YOU!!!

I went a few years ago (2002, 2006 and 2007) maybe something has change but the straight before "parabolica" for us was a good place with little free tribunes at the inside part.
Ascari is good too but there is almost no space.

[stefa]

I went a few years ago (2002, 2006 and 2007) maybe something has change but the straight before "parabolica" for us was a good place with little free tribunes at the inside part.
Ascari is good too but there is almost no space.

Thank you!!!

[stefa]

Hi Stefa, I went to Monza with a general admission ticket but it was back in 2013, so things may have changed by now. We tried to find a good viewing point but it was pretty hard to find an area which wasn't already very busy with little chance of getting a seat anywhere, we were on the inside of the circuit mostly at Variante Ascari where we could only see the drivers' helmets fly by, luckily there was a giant TV screen opposite so at least we knew what was happening! I am sure there are other tifosi with more recent experience of the circuit, but despite not getting much of a clear view of the race, it was the atmosphere that counted and of course the scramble onto the main straight for the podium presentation. Have a great time and Forza Ferrari!

Thank you! Hope will have great first time at the temple of speed!

[FerrariF60]

Thank you! Hope will have great first time at the temple of speed!

yeah, Monza is one of the tings on my "bucket list" to do....hopefully one day
the atmosphere there i bet is just INCREDIBLE with all the tifosi

be actually nice if Ferrari had a car this year to actually WIN MONZA....like Charles did in 2019...you probably be over excited with joy....

maybe we'll have the second fastest car and red bull's Max's car will blow up and we take the WIN...wishful thinking eh???

[stefa]

yeah, Monza is one of the tings on my "bucket list" to do....hopefully one day
the atmosphere there i bet is just INCREDIBLE with all the tifosi

be actually nice if Ferrari had a car this year to actually WIN MONZA....like Charles did in 2019...you probably be over excited with joy....

maybe we'll have the second fastest car and red bull's Max's car will blow up and we take the WIN...wishful thinking eh???

From your mouth to.... :-D

[aroutis]

you i$d#i@o& this is SF23 discussion tread.....NOT your wet dream driver pair up.....grow up ya loser

Just put him on ignore. He is a psycho.

[FerrariF60]

Just put him on ignore. He is a psycho.

yeah, i've already done that....he's not worth my time reading his posts

[stefa]

Just put him on ignore. He is a psycho.


yeah, i've already done that....he's not worth my time reading his posts

Done that a long time ago!

[paolo lalli]

Golden rule for all.Never argue with a fool he will bring you down to his level then beat you with experience.,side step them as soon as quickly as humanly possible.

[stefa]

Golden rule for all.Never argue with a fool he will bring you down to his level then beat you with experience.,side step them as soon as quickly as humanly possible.

:clap

[Riccardog]

interesting lack of interest in f1 on this site, no dutch gp thread?

[Kyss4k]

interesting lack of interest in f1 on this site, no dutch gp thread?

I guess there's nothing to talk about. We all know how the seasond ends, we all know our team does not have a clue what to do with this car, so... just quietly watching.

[paolo lalli]

Can f1 survive without ferrari? Sure they can they have been absent all season and it's booming.

[racingbradley]

So sad to witness. This car was Binotto's parting gift and no one knows what to do with it.:-s

[Brembo]

Carlos 5th place ! Not bad considering his car. Charles zero points DNF. At least Carlos at 1/2 Charles' salary keeping Ferrari alive.

[paolo lalli]

Ferrari know what to do with this binotto disaster that only he understands I would bet as nite becomes day that he and only he knows the secrets of the SF 90 and how to unlock its true potential the secrets went with him,and what remains is binottos parting gift a nite mare on wheels.

[FerrariF60]

Ferrari know what to do with this binotto disaster that only he understands I would bet as nite becomes day that he and only he knows the secrets of the SF 90 and how to unlock its true potential the secrets went with him,and what remains is binottos parting gift a nite mare on wheels.

he knows NOTHING....if he new, he would have fixed the F175 after the implementation of the TD39 last year
what did he do to fix the issues?? absolutely nothing....after the TD39 was implemented teh sf90 was an absolute disaster....

don;t get me wrong, he's a brilliant engineer, and i'm kind of sad that he's gone....from an engineer perspective....from a team principal perspective, he had did NOT fulfil that position very well

[samboozik]

he knows NOTHING....if he new, he would have fixed the sf90 after the implementation of the TD39 last year
what did he do to fix the issues?? absolutely nothing....after the TD39 was implemented teh sf90 was an absolute disaster....

don;t get me wrong, he's a brilliant engineer, and i'm kind of sad that he's gone....from an engineer perspective....from a team principal perspective, he had did NOT fulfil that position very well

The SF90 was 2019's car.

[FerrariF60]

The SF90 was 2019's car.

sorry meant to say F175.....the 2022 car; i updated my post

[samboozik]

sorry meant to say F175.....the 2022 car; i updated my post

:thumb

[FerrariF60]

Cardile: 2023 car development was limited

He explained: “It was immediately clear in the tests what the gaps were and what was missing to have a competitive car. The correspondence with the simulator and the wind tunnel was good from the start, and with the analysis after the tests, we came to a conclusion.

“The problem is no longer to understand what is missing but to bring to the track as soon as possible a car that recovers the gaps that have the SF-23.

“During the development of this car, we realised that with the architectural choices made in continuity with the previous year's car, we had limits to improve the car.

“Next year's car is designed differently: it will be a car with a chassis and a rear end different from the ones we have this year, and everything is aimed at allowing the aerodynamics to extract the performance we lack in the current car.”

[paolo lalli]

Sums it up perfectly.So now there is no more need to bash ferrari car.Lets let sleeping dogs lay.

[Brembo]

Even without a podium finish so far; Carlos is ahead of Charles and Russell with points!! That 5th place finish with what he;s driving is for sure a sign of greatness . Maybe a win in the forecast? Charles does have Carlos beat big time pay wise. Carlos salary wise is on Ferrari's " Ignore" list! :rotfl !

[paolo lalli]

A podium in Monza would be like a win simply because finishing top 3 for ferrari has been basically non existing this season so as a fan I would be very happy.

[Brembo]

Great post! Either or " Both" our drivers on the podium would be just a big deal! They are for sure capable.

[Cavallino]

Cardile: 2023 car development was limited

He explained: “It was immediately clear in the tests what the gaps were and what was missing to have a competitive car. The correspondence with the simulator and the wind tunnel was good from the start, and with the analysis after the tests, we came to a conclusion.

“The problem is no longer to understand what is missing but to bring to the track as soon as possible a car that recovers the gaps that have the SF-23.

“During the development of this car, we realised that with the architectural choices made in continuity with the previous year's car, we had limits to improve the car.

“Next year's car is designed differently: it will be a car with a chassis and a rear end different from the ones we have this year, and everything is aimed at allowing the aerodynamics to extract the performance we lack in the current car.”

yeah, it makes sense, it's the logical thing to do. Don't bring updates that will not carry over to next year's car, it's a waste of time and money. It's really a problem that the FIA has exacerbated with these new cost cap rules.

But try explaining that to Kyssyk and his ilk on this board.

It is also blame on Mercedes for pulling the TD39 bs last year. If the SF-23 was designed without TD-39 in mind, it was doomed from the start.

[PURE PASSION]

any news about the next "update"
A lot said that it will be significant,even more then Spain's.
And Lec had said (before summer brake) that , from what is coming (about the upgrade) he thinks we aim for 2nd place.
but after the summer brake its like this "scenario" had disappeared.

[Brembo]

Carlos on pole !!! Charles 3rd; that should get the Ferrari fans out and watching! Viva Italia !

[paolo lalli]

Well it certainly did that when ferrari are at the front sleeping heads awaken.

[Brembo]

yeah, i've already done that....he's not worth my time reading his posts

[Galvonero]

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=774089191390963&id=100063696685091&post_id=100063696685091_774089191390963

[FerrariF60]

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=774089191390963&id=100063696685091&post_id=100063696685091_774089191390963

so basically in other words it will be a RED BULL painted RED.....hey, so long as it will brings us regular wins and fight for championship, then i'll take it

what about the DRS trick taht red bull has?? are they NOT gonna try and copy that also??

[Aviamata]

so basically in other words it will be a RED BULL painted RED.....hey, so long as it will brings us regular wins and fight for championship, then i'll take it

what about the DRS trick taht red bull has?? are they NOT gonna try and copy that also??

We already have the best engine to compensate for that

[paolo lalli]

Copying only lasts for so long.Look at Aston Martin red bull copy sure ,now look at them struggle.Inovation with evolvment is the clear winner ��

[aroutis]

Copying only lasts for so long.Look at Aston Martin red bull copy sure ,now look at them struggle.Inovation with evolvment is the clear winner ��

Apart from the fact that I doubt that Ferrari will copy/paste the red bull point blank, but they will rather incorporate things that make them fast and also use other things from their own philosophy, I would not be surprised that they already know how to make DRS work the way RBR's does but they could not do that this year because budget cap.

[Brembo]

Charles looks ready ! He needs the next win!

[Brembo]

1st practice : Max Carlos Charles Alonso !

[tifosi1993]

Quali highlighted all the shortcomings of this car. Understeer on the entry but losing the rear in mid-corner where high speed is involved. Thanks Binotto.

Charles did the maximum here.

[FerrariF60]

Quali highlighted all the shortcomings of this car. Understeer on the entry but losing the rear in mid-corner where high speed is involved. Thanks Binotto.

Charles did the maximum here.

yup, car's a COMPLETE TURD....like you mentioned, thank you Binoutto...good thing he's freaking gone and this year cannot come to an end fast enough

hopefully they have copied red fools as much as possible (clear winner there), and incorporating front pull rod and rear push rod suspensions, amongst other things and bring a real contender fighting for wins from race ONE in 2024

[FerrariF60]

Charles looks ready ! He needs the next win!

WIN??? with the TURD he's driving??? i don't know what stuff you're smoking, but this car is no where

[tifosi1993]

WIN??? with the TURD he's driving??? i don't know what stuff you're smoking, but this car is no where

Ignore that mental basket case.

[FerrariF60]

Ignore that mental basket case.

no kidding EH!!....that dude's got some serious issues/problems

[Brembo]

WIN??? with the TURD he's driving??? i don't know what stuff you're smoking, but this car is no where

Well Ferrari is the only other team to get a win this season. OK; it was Carlos' expertise that brought that as you say "Turd " of a car in for the win; but it happened!

[Brembo]

Ignore that mental basket case.

As the saying goes "It takes one to know one! "

[Redfive]

I feel Piastri would look good in red ...just saying.

[aroutis]

I feel Piastri would look good in red ...just saying.

My thoughts as well. Guy has talent and would make a great pair with Charles.
Not to mention it's a great thing to take a good driver from another team in order to weaken them.

[racingbradley]

My thoughts as well. Guy has talent and would make a great pair with Charles.
Not to mention it's a great thing to take a good driver from another team in order to weaken them.

He would fit the bill ok but McLaren are getting very strong and he probably sees a future WDC there. I cannot see him wanting to come to us..........unless the lure of driving in red appeals to him.

[jgonzalesm6]

I feel Piastri would look good in red ...just saying.


My thoughts as well. Guy has talent and would make a great pair with Charles.
Not to mention it's a great thing to take a good driver from another team in order to weaken them.


He would fit the bill ok but McLaren are getting very strong and he probably sees a future WDC there. I cannot see him wanting to come to us..........unless the lure of driving in red appeals to him.

Piastri's racing manager is Mark Webber.......just sayin guys.

[Brembo]

A last minute unrepairable fuel leak for Carlos just before the race? Charles needed the points! Tremendous heat and humidity and no more chance @ WDC; WCC; Lewis took the day off 1st lap DNF. He tried to take his team mate with him.

[nani_s23]

I feel Piastri would look good in red ...just saying.

First ferrari should concentrate on producing championship winning car.

Alonso/Vettel out, now we have charles.

No matter whomever you get in the team, first car design & development should be correct.

[JPZ]

First ferrari should concentrate on producing championship winning car.

Alonso/Vettel out, now we have Charles.

No matter whomever you get in the team, first car design & development should be correct.

Agreed.

[Brembo]

Carlos last minute fuel leak DNF should help Charles catch up with points. Seb's 4 WDCs then to Ferrari cost him the experience fighting from 6th place or higher. Carlos & Charles are both great fighters from behind. With Max maxed out with WDC & WCC for R Bull at least we Ferrari fans have something to look forward to race time watching our driver fight for points.

[racingbradley]

First ferrari should concentrate on producing championship winning car.

Alonso/Vettel out, now we have charles.

No matter whomever you get in the team, first car design & development should be correct.

Agree. Look at Hamilton & Max when their car is not up to speed.

[nani_s23]

Agree. Look at Hamilton & Max when their car is not up to speed.

Yes… everyone were praising Hamilton till 2021. Because he winning championships at ease without much competition from opposite teams. He was having a dominant car.

Now it’s Max turn, he’s having dominant car & winning titles without much competition.

Where was max last year when ferrari-Leclerc was reeling him down 1st half few races.

Give leclerc/Ham/Alonso a dominant car against RB-Max. We will see who’s the best. That’s how the competition should be.

[Brembo]

Ham/Alonso both have the points for their team, you left out Sainz who has the most points for Ferrari and a WIN ! Give him as you say a dominant car against Max !!

[Brembo]

Max wining 2021;2022 WDCs is 2 in a row. 2023 win makes it 3 in a row. What does wining one in a row mean? Let's hope our drivers will have two cars to start and finish Sundays race. Charles could use a win !!

[stefa]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ferrari-pays-homage-to-its-f1-us-history-with-special-las-vegas-livery/10544831/

[Aziz]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ferrari-pays-homage-to-its-f1-us-history-with-special-las-vegas-livery/10544831/

Does it come with hydraulics? 😁

[Greig]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ferrari-pays-homage-to-its-f1-us-history-with-special-las-vegas-livery/10544831/

Looks lovely

[Tony]

I miss the white wings :(

[Alonsomaniac]

Ham/Alonso both have the points for their team, you left out Sainz who has the most points for Ferrari and a WIN ! Give him as you say a dominant car against Max !!

Both our drivers need that car. But the guy who can get to Max is Charles. Carlos is a great and intelligent driver but we all know Charles is the faster one.

[Brembo]

Most Points and a win we all know makes Carlos the faster driver so far. Charles has 2 more chances to hopefully catch up. Carlos' win is a big deal! The competition is strong.

[Tifoso]

Both our drivers need that car. But the guy who can get to Max is Charles. Carlos is a great and intelligent driver but we all know Charles is the faster one.

Based on what fratello, though? Carlos has been the better driver thus far, no?

[Brembo]

Based on what fratello, though? Carlos has been the better driver thus far, no?

Amen!! Finally Carlos gets recognized by another fan along with me . And! at 1/2 Charles' pay !

[Tifoso]

Amen!! Finally Carlos gets recognized by another fan along with me . And! at 1/2 Charles' pay !

To be clear: I am a Ferrari fan, first. Secondly I am a fan of both drivers. ;-)
The points don't lie.

[aroutis]

Based on what fratello, though? Carlos has been the better driver thus far, no?

No.
He just has a car at his disposal that was made for his driving style.
Actually if you take into account that Charles has had 3 DNF so far and the points difference between them, that speaks volumes bout who is the better one.

[aroutis]

To be clear: I am a Ferrari fan, first. Secondly I am a fan of both drivers. ;-)
The points don't lie.

Everyone knows I am a tifoso too (pun intended).
However give a car to Charles that actually he can race with and it's not even a fair fight.

[Brembo]

Carlos got the only non R Bull win with a just OK car ; both Carlos and Charles go out to race with the same car. Plus Carlos is ahead on points which says it all. AND !!!!!! @ 1/2 Charles' pay!! That alone makes it not even close to being fair @ Ferrari. Alonso & Carlos Ferrari !! Their combined salaries are less than Charles makes!

[PURE PASSION]

To be clear: I am a Ferrari fan, first. Secondly I am a fan of both drivers. ;-)
The points don't lie.

In this case ,they lie BIG TIME .
on pure pace ,Lec is by far better then Sainz. All the world is talking about Lec bad fortune. Only for this sainz is capable being in front in the standigs. In a season their performance is like their qualy standings.Something like 14-7 .
So yeh the points lie !!!

[PURE PASSION]

Carlos got the only non R Bull win with a just OK car ; both Carlos and Charles go out to race with the same car. Plus Carlos is ahead on points which says it all. AND !!!!!! @ 1/2 Charles' pay!! That alone makes it not even close to being fair @ Ferrari. Alonso & Carlos Ferrari !! Their combined salaries are less than Charles makes!

You are 1 of the fans that i bet you dont see the races . You just look the results.
for you if both drivers are in frony (1-20 . the 1st outqualy the 2nd by 3-4 tenths.In the race he is almost 0.5s /lap faster then the 2nd driver. And 2 laps before the end ,the 1st driver has a mechanical failure and dnf so the 2nd driver takes the win . For you the 2nd driver is better. for me NO !!!!!!
My preference amongst the 2 has come from what i see from both drivers in track and their capabilities. And from this 1000% Lec is by far better then Sainz. You have your own opnion,i dont care. All i care is team dont have a sight like yours because this would be devastating for our hopes. Binottos management prove it !!!!

[Tifoso]

In this case ,they lie BIG TIME .
on pure pace ,Lec is by far better then Sainz. All the world is talking about Lec bad fortune. Only for this sainz is capable being in front in the standigs. In a season their performance is like their qualy standings.Something like 14-7 .
So yeh the points lie !!!

The points don't lie, fratello.
I happen to think that CL is better than CS, FWIW. ;-)

Lets ask RB for a swap (plus cash): MV for CS. 8-)

[Brembo]

You are 1 of the fans that i bet you dont see the races . You just look the results.
for you if both drivers are in frony (1-20 . the 1st outqualy the 2nd by 3-4 tenths.In the race he is almost 0.5s /lap faster then the 2nd driver. And 2 laps before the end ,the 1st driver has a mechanical failure and dnf so the 2nd driver takes the win . For you the 2nd driver is better. for me NO !!!!!!
My preference amongst the 2 has come from what i see from both drivers in track and their capabilities. And from this 1000% Lec is by far better then Sainz. You have your own opnion,i dont care. All i care is team dont have a sight like yours because this would be devastating for our hopes. Binottos management prove it !!!!

BUT Carlos won the only non R Bull win! That not great but is what counts. And the points! Charles is great too but Carlos did better this season so far. No driver has won a race except CARLOS and R Bull ! Depending on Charles so far is whats devastating for Ferrari's hopes. Obviously you don't watch the races ; you just ignore the results if it's not Charles that's up front. It's all about wins and POINTS that sets drivers apart as far as which is the better . The only win and the most points ;yes I only look at the results. You need to watch the races , not just read the results.An Alonso Charles swap would have Ferrari #1 and a fraction of the pay Charles gets! You lost your bet! :rotfl