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Agree with you Tobes and Massimo, tyres shouldn't completely dictate how much a driver can push, it means the WDC becomes the tyre-management championship, and that's not racing. Unpredictability is one thing and keeps it interesting, processional racing is boring, so we need something in between to give drivers the chance to show their driving skills.;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobes
It would seem we're back to the square one: Should drivers/teams not have the choice of which tire to use at any race?
And, shouldn't drivers/teams have some in-season testing to make adjustments/changes based on the different tires?
No that would defeat the whole purpose of the control tyre.Quote:
Originally Posted by sagi58
The teams all agreed that in season testing would be dropped this year as it cost too much money for no real gain.Quote:
Originally Posted by sagi58
I understand the need to "save money"; but, how hard would it be for the teams to put in their "order" ahead of each race and Pirelli brings those tires with them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Greig
What I don't understand is why Pirelli should dictate to any driver/team which tire is best suited to which track, as each car is set up differently.
I did say "some" because I was referring to the drivers/teams getting to know just what kind of adjustments need to be made for each compound! It might be a matter of a couple of sessions before the season begins, it might be a 1/2 hour before the beginning of practices.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greig
Just a thought...
Because it would defeat the purpose of the control tyre with every team using the same, and could see a return to 1 team dominating as they can use certain tyres better. Pirelli pick the tyres based on their data and pick a suitable tyre for the track surface etc. And what if you put your tyre order in get to the track and the temps are lower or higher than expected? How do you know teams would pick different tyres to what Pirelli are now for each track?Quote:
Originally Posted by sagi58
We had 3 pre-season tests and the teams also got to trial the new tyres during last season at certain races, they agreed the costs involved in mid-season testing were not worth it. I don't know what sort of adjustments teams need to do for each tyre if any at all other than the race setup at each and every track, why do you think they need extra testing to make adjustments?
Why don't we get to run any front wing we want? Why can't we design a car with a nose at any height? It's the rules. The rules are set for everyone to follow. The tire issue is overblown. This same thing happened last year then what happened after the first few races? We had 1 stop races the rest of the year. Give the teams time, they will learn how to cope. Just like teams needed time to learn to cope with the loss of the exhaust blown diffuser. But no one cried about that. Well besides Red Bull.Quote:
Originally Posted by sagi58
Wise words!! Will try to remember them, more often!!Quote:
Originally Posted by NickEice
You're probably right! I just don't like the lack of choice!Quote:
Originally Posted by Greig
Ah, well... these guys know what they're doing!
I'm just going to enjoy the races and leave the rules to them to argue!!
I agree that it should be up to the teams to decide which tires they use. However, I'm not sure that would have changed the outcome of the race in Oz. If all 4 compounds were available, the race still would have been won by the driver who was able to go fast enough to finish first with one less stop. But, with the teams making the choice of tires, there would be no room for excuses. Left to their own devices, Ferrari might have gone for mediums and two stops, but Lotus were managing the tires so well that they probably could have gone mediums and one stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by sagi58
I say, let the teams pick the tires. That actually adds more, not less, drama because the teams will have one more decision to make.
And, here's one pro weighing in on the discussion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Gray
Alonso said we could have done a 2 stop did he not? but they went with 3 and a more attacking approach. On another day it might well have worked.
And tyres have long long long been a very important factor in F1 racing. Damon Hill blitzing all in an Arrows at Hungary 97 due to Bridgestone tyres for instance.....
Exactly, at least in the battle between bridgestone and michelin, they were trying to make tyres that made cars go faster not like today'sQuote:
Originally Posted by Hornet
I've said it before, you either have one tire and bring back refueling or you don't refuel and mandate stops for tires. Can't have the best of both worlds.
The tires will always be extremely important and force the engineers to design around them. They are the only part of the car that touches the circuit for Pete's sake!
The only thing that can be said is maybe Pirelli went too soft on the compound, maybe they should have went Yellow and White, not Red and White. But in the end, it is the same for everyone. Lotus ran 23 laps on those tires, twice. They did a great job balancing the car and making it use the tires well. All the teams knew it was going to be an issue and it seems Lotus did the best job in Oz. Applaud them. They won fair and square.
Ideally, imo Pirelli could try and research a tyre that would degrade at the same rate no matter what the teams do to it. As in, 'conserving the tyres' would be impossible.
I know this probably isn't possible, but maybe also make the tyres degrade a little less.
So we can have our mixed up strategies and good racing, while the teams have to push as the tyres would degrade anyways, as driving to a delta would be futile.
The good news is that the dreaded super soft tire is not scheduled to reappear before the races return to Europe.
Australia Super Soft Medium
Malaysia Medium Hard
China Soft Medium
Bahrain Soft Hard
Seeing this, I have to say..ok, this is what F1 is using now..but..why not make all compounds available at every race? Let the teams decide which compounds to use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Nick
Just because a medium tire works for say, Mac at a certain track doesnt mean that same compound works for Lotus..Keep the rule, a car must use 2 compounds thruout the race..(stupid rule unto itself)..but...I think we would see yet more strategy in play.
Because it would lead to a scenario where every team would use SS for quali, then start the race on it and change to the fastest but enough lasting compound for the rest of the race. I doubt we would see much variance in the strategies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova
The difference would be that the drivers/teams have the option!Quote:
Originally Posted by FFFerrari
They get to choose their strategy! They get to choose their tire!
They wouldn't be bound by someone else's choice!
We used to comlain abour tires, now, someone is saying Lauda is too crazy. :clap
You are no good people. You're happy when you win, no matter how. :-s
Do you even suppprt Ferrari?Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesilhouettes
Supporting Ferrari doesnt mean Ferrari is all good, others are cheating or etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greig
That was not the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesilhouettes
And as said they would all take SS to qual and then the same tyre that is best suited to the track they are on, you would not see much variety between tyre choices across the grid, there will be one tyre that the majority would pick.Quote:
Originally Posted by sagi58
Pirelli just have to get rid of the performance drop off - right now new tires have a very quick 1-2 laps and then drop - they need to get rid of that. make the tire performance more level so pitting for new tires doesn't always result in the undercut working. A car on older tires with a clear track can't blitz in any fast laps to make up time, the guy on new tires has a 2 sec adavantage on his outlap, even on harder tires.
Stop blaming Pirelli and blame the FIA. They told them to make them degrade faster this year. We could have kept last years tires but the FIA said no.
Good points. I would prefer to see rules that limited the use of aero, than using tires to induce interesting races.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobes
As always, it's those who can't get the tyres to work for them who complain. I hear Bieber and Webber complaining all the time, but I don't hear Kimi.....or Fernando or Felipe.
I like those days where there are two tire suppliers...bring it back!:-P
Looks like the grumbling is contagious!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Noble and Matt Beer on Autosport
I partially agree with Lauda but for me it isn't as big as it's meant to be. Tires are never perfect, they either last too much so strategy suffer, even more if refuel is banned, or they last very little and it's a headache for engineers and drivers. Last year we had the same complaints about the tires and after mid season Pirelli decided not to get involved as "a title decider" and changed their policy about bringing the softer tires possible to every GP. Nobody noticed that? Lauda, you didn't complain?
I have a complaint for F1 management. I used to love rain whenever it turned up in a Grand Prix, now I'm worried even with a few little drops of water because qualifying can be put off, the race can start behind the safety car, red flagged and then affected by the 2 hours time limit or ambience light about and finally an event being cancelled. It's getting worse every season in the last 3 or 4 years. STOP!!!