Single Keel!

**RED** · 30th January 2006, 20:45

Maybe it's inter-changeable after all......

**Nug** · 30th January 2006, 20:48

**Cavallino Rosso** · 30th January 2006, 20:49

Will someone please keel off this topic before I keel over and die!!!!

**JustBringIt** · 30th January 2006, 23:58

Originally posted by bonanco
- Zero(no)keel

- Single vs. zerokeel

Now I'm confused. I thought the idea of having a zero-keel design was so you didn't have a big lump of material under the car. But its still there?!?!

**Tifoso** · 31st January 2006, 00:05

I was under the impression that it was to improve airflow under the car, thereby increasing downforce...

**Tobes** · 31st January 2006, 00:11

Originally posted by JustBringIt
Now I'm confused. I thought the idea of having a zero-keel design was so you didn't have a big lump of material under the car. But its still there?!?!

I was thinking exactly the same thing, the only explanation i could think for that, is because it's the TF105B, it is a modified TF105 hence it retained the original 'big lump' because the rest of the car/diffuser etc was designed around the single keel...

Other than that i don't know, except that i'm happy....

**SS454** · 31st January 2006, 01:17

I think coysht mentioned he saw the same single keel concept on the TF106, which would be odd. It makes sense on the TF105B as Tobes already mentioned. Though even with a single keel bump and no keel mounts, there is still a benifit in airflow, as the suspension arms really disrupt airflow, not just for the fact they are in the line of the airflow, but the fact they move. As the suspension moves, the air changes its tragectory over/under the wishbones, which theoretically will have an affect all the way back. You can visually see the more open space in the comparo pic. Not only that, I think they could tune their deflectors and bargeboards to direct airflow better.

**JustBringIt** · 31st January 2006, 01:40

Yeah, that sounds logical. I guess it would completely change the airflow under the car to remove it, which they didn't want to do for an update of the existing car. We need some spies down there at Toyota to get a picture of the TF106 with the nose off (I presume the picture here is the TF105B).

**Tobes** · 31st January 2006, 13:40

Originally posted by SS454
I think coysht mentioned he saw the same single keel concept on the TF106, which would be odd. It makes sense on the TF105B as Tobes already mentioned. Though even with a single keel bump and no keel mounts, there is still a benifit in airflow, as the suspension arms really disrupt airflow, not just for the fact they are in the line of the airflow, but the fact they move. As the suspension moves, the air changes its tragectory over/under the wishbones, which theoretically will have an affect all the way back. You can visually see the more open space in the comparo pic. Not only that, I think they could tune their deflectors and bargeboards to direct airflow better.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

So my inter-changable keel design theory is not such a design stretch after-all...?

**FerrariRagazza** · 31st January 2006, 15:33

Some other keels to keep this going.

Green keel-bellied lizard

Keel billed Toucan

Flower with a keel (apparently)

Vinylcheese - keel

**Tobes** · 31st January 2006, 16:13

The Green keel-bellied lizard looks like it may be a single keel, but the angle may prove to be deceptive, may be a V...

The Keel billed Toucan is definately a single keel....

I think the Flower with a keel looks like a W keel, but not absolutely sure...

Finally, Vinylcheese should just Keel over....

**coysht** · 31st January 2006, 17:56

Originally posted by JustBringIt
Yeah, that sounds logical. I guess it would completely change the airflow under the car to remove it, which they didn't want to do for an update of the existing car. We need some spies down there at Toyota to get a picture of the TF106 with the nose off (I presume the picture here is the TF105B).

Wouldnt be much point in getting a photo of the TF106 it looks just like the TF105B.

There is no logical reason for them leaving a redundant single keel having opted for zero keel suspension. Even on the 05B they had to build new chassis' so its not like they'd have had to chop it off the car.

Something very odd is going on in the aero department at Toyota, the car appears not to have actually changed at all since last season, and there barely any change from previous seasons.

**Tobes** · 31st January 2006, 18:05

Originally posted by coysht
Wouldnt be much point in getting a photo of the TF106 it looks just like the TF105B.

There is no logical reason for them leaving a redundant single keel having opted for zero keel suspension. Even on the 05B they had to build new chassis' so its not like they'd have had to chop it off the car.

Something very odd is going on in the aero department at Toyota, the car appears not to have actually changed at all since last season, and there barely any change from previous seasons.

Maybe they are still working from the Ferrari plans they never had...

...and we ALL know that's a single keel...

:

**FerrariRagazza** · 31st January 2006, 19:27

Originally posted by Tobes
The Green keel-bellied lizard looks like it may be a single keel, but the angle may prove to be deceptive, may be a V...

The Keel billed Toucan is definately a single keel....

I think the Flower with a keel looks like a W keel, but not absolutely sure...

Finally, Vinylcheese should just Keel over....

**JustBringIt** · 1st February 2006, 00:04

Originally posted by coysht
Wouldnt be much point in getting a photo of the TF106 it looks just like the TF105B.

There is no logical reason for them leaving a redundant single keel having opted for zero keel suspension. Even on the 05B they had to build new chassis' so its not like they'd have had to chop it off the car.

Something very odd is going on in the aero department at Toyota, the car appears not to have actually changed at all since last season, and there barely any change from previous seasons.

The reason I say about a photo is to see whether the TF106 still has that (seemingly redundant) keel. If it is still there, it is indeed strange.

**coysht** · 1st February 2006, 00:07

Originally posted by JustBringIt
The reason I say about a photo is to see whether the TF106 still has that (seemingly redundant) keel. If it is still there, it is indeed strange.

It does have the redundant keel, or it did at launch anyway.

**JustBringIt** · 1st February 2006, 00:11

Originally posted by coysht
It does have the redundant keel, or it did at launch anyway.

Can't help but wonder if they took the TF105B to the launch so as not to give away any secrets, since you say its so similar.

**coysht** · 1st February 2006, 11:41

Originally posted by JustBringIt
Can't help but wonder if they took the TF105B to the launch so as not to give away any secrets, since you say its so similar.

The thought had crossed my mind.

But I'm pretty sure they're still using the same car they used around the time of the launch.

**hans800** · 1st February 2006, 18:32

Toyota have a strange way of doing things... I would certainly expect that a car designed from the outset to be a no keel design would not have a keel left in the middle as a relic of the design. Perhaps they have in fact not debuted their new car yet. it would certainly explain the curious similarity of the "TF106" with the TF105B.

I would expect that Toyota would have wanted to put at least some miles on their new chassis though, even if they were only doing mechanical testing right now and no aero running.

Just took a look at this pic from testing today in Valencia. It does look as if there is still a keel on the underside of the car.

To be honest, they aren't somebody that I would want to be in a testing agreement with... oh wait...

**coysht** · 1st February 2006, 19:55

What surprises me is that the Toyota's sidepods are so huge, they really dont need to be that big for a V8.

Really does suggest that this is either the old car, they're planning a huge update before too long, or they've lost the plot.

**Tobes** · 1st February 2006, 19:57

Originally posted by coysht
What surprises me is that the Toyota's sidepods are so huge, they really dont need to be that big for a V8.

Really does suggest that this is either the old car, they're planning a huge update before too long, or they've lost the plot.

Originally posted by Tobes
Maybe they are still working from the Ferrari plans they never had...

**antares** · 2nd February 2006, 04:47

I think they've just lost the plot. Whatever your budget... it's very easy to lose the plot

Thread: Single Keel!

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