So we've all heard that the team...

**GrndLkNatv** · 13th June 2008, 15:55

has a problem getting heat into the tires on the first lap and yet Hami boy and his group of pirates haven't had this problem.

We also know from last year the Mc's were running Nitrogen in their tires while Ferrari were using C02.

So for long runs, C02 seems to be better, keeps the tire cooler, keeps them from graining so bad and keeps Ferrari in the winners circle but is hard to qualify on.

So here is my question.

Why not use a combination of both? Nitrous Oxide?

That way you get the properties of Nitrogen, quicker heating intially, but the O2 would keep the overall temperature down for the long haul..

I am a math guy, not a chemist so someone here might know better...

N02 is used for engine boost but is only combustable when mixed with fuel and under pressure... It's also known as laughing gas and available at many a dentist office...

Any thoughts?

**Blom** · 13th June 2008, 16:27

Why not have NO2 in the tires in the qualifying and CO2 in the race??? Maybe that's againt the rules but I don't know.

**kenny** · 13th June 2008, 16:32

some general info i found from speedtv

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/artic...s_of_the_f2007

and this

Another interesting point is that most of the F1 teams use dry nitrogen gas to inflate their tyres instead of air. This is done for two reasons. Firstly the moisture content of air is variable depending on the local weather conditions and this differs considerably between some of the exotic locations on the GP calendar. By using dry nitrogen gas the tyres will behave in a predictable way wherever they are being used. The second reason is that air is a mixture of nitrogen (78%) and oxygen (21%). Oxygen gas is far more reactive than nitrogen and at the high operating temperatures of F1 tyres (> 100°C) the oxygen reacts with the tyre, reducing the total pressure inside. Using pure nitrogen removes this problem and tyre pressures remain far more consistent.

**Mrs.Domenicali** · 13th June 2008, 16:52

I'm sure I read somewhere that Ferrari's tyre gas is a mixture of gases, not purely just CO2. If I find the article again I'll post it up.

**coysht** · 13th June 2008, 17:13

I thought the gas mixture in the tyres was supposed to be one of the bits of info McLaren got from Stepney?......

and thinking about it, since when did CO2 + N2 = NO2..... or has my chemistry knowledge completely escaped me?
Surely a combination of the two gasses would just mean you had a mixture of CO2 and N2 in whatever proportion you chose, rather than the two becoming chemically linked.

Anyhoo, I think changing the gas is a small thing compared to general car setup.

The McLaren and Ferrari have different levels of mechanical and aero grip, as a result one is harder on it's tyres and so can heat them up quicker, but then will wear them out faster - hence McLaren often choosing the harder compound as their best tyre for the race, while Ferrari run more stints on the softer compound.
McLaren have even run quali on harder tyres in some cases, which suggest that they can generate enough heat in a single warm-up lap to make them useable for a flyer.

**kaiser** · 1st July 2008, 16:39

Just a thought - NO2 is a highly oxidising flammable gas that is known to cause ignition when exposed to certain plastics, elastomers and rubbers. It is also corrosive in the presence of water. Generally speaking, tyre inflation gases should be inert in the event of an accident or mishap. Nitrogen Dioxide might not be the best choice...

**Shahid** · 1st July 2008, 20:12

Originally Posted by kaiser

Just a thought - NO2 is a highly oxidising flammable gas that is known to cause ignition when exposed to certain plastics, elastomers and rubbers. It is also corrosive in the presence of water. Generally speaking, tyre inflation gases should be inert in the event of an accident or mishap. Nitrogen Dioxide might not be the best choice...

Exactly what I was going to point out, you really don't want a strong oxidiser like NO2 near very hot things and things full of petrol!

Btw incase anyone was wondering Nitrous wouldn't give you the properties of Nitrogen and Carbon Dioxide combined, chemistry isn't that simple. Think about the result of reacting sodium metal with chlorine gas, the product isn't something with a combination of properties.

**Greig** · 1st July 2008, 21:05

Originally Posted by Shahid

Btw incase anyone was wondering Nitrous wouldn't give you the properties of Nitrogen and Carbon Dioxide combined, chemistry isn't that simple. Think about the result of reacting sodium metal with chlorine gas, the product isn't something with a combination of properties.

Yeah was thinking that myself

**Tifoso** · 2nd July 2008, 22:19

Why couldn't you qualify on 1 gas, and race on the other?

**Rob** · 7th July 2008, 19:50

would make sense to qualify on 1 and use the mixture which give better long run performance for the race.

**XXX132** · 4th August 2008, 09:44

Nitrous Oxide is N2O.

It's not flammable. It decomposes at high temperature (eg when injected into engines) to release additional Oxygen. The extra Oxygen can be used to burn additional fuel, boosting power.

As it is a gas at room temperature, when used in vehicles it can be stored as a liquid under extreme pressure to save space.

Releasing liquid N2O into an engine causes the N2O to evaporate, causing a massive temperature drop, resulting in a denser inlet charge - you can squeeze more fuel and air into the cylinder to get more power.

I don't think it's a good gas for tyres though.

Ferrari really need Bridgestone to make softer tyres!