Angry Alonso says race 'manipulated'

[RED]

Does anybody have any info on how much Hamilton actually gained by having an extra fast lap and how much he lost due to drive-through? Also much these 9 drivers gained by going faster?

[Rosso Corsa]

Unfair, lucky, Hamilton cheater, whatever, I can swallow anything but race manipulated, Fernando was dead wrong in this one. The team should learn how to handle Alonso in the heat of the battle because sometimes he is out of control in this situtations. He have the right to be angry as we do, but calling the race "manipulated" is beyond acceptable.

Piffle. The world needs people who say what they think, whether you approve of their message or not.

The FIA have set precedence. It's okay to overtake the safety car and speed during a SC period. Glad that's clarified. I pity the Marshalls who's lives the FIA clearly have no regard for. You wouldn't catch me collecting debris from the track under this regime.

[Silent Bob]

Unfair, lucky, Hamilton cheater, whatever, I can swallow anything but race manipulated, Fernando was dead wrong in this one. The team should learn how to handle Alonso in the heat of the battle because sometimes he is out of control in this situtations. He have the right to be angry as we do, but calling the race "manipulated" is beyond acceptable.

Well you don't want to really believe it.. but it becomes hard not to think it. When race stewards make up new penalties? How do you argue against that? And any other race, whnever a car crosses the pitlane exit line, they are investigated almost immediately, and given a drive thru fairly quickly. 20 laps to come to a decision on a blatant foul.. something smells funny. It didn't take viewers that ling toknow Hmailton was in the wrong once the replay was shown.

[Effone]

I dislike Hamilton and McLaren but I must say I find it a bit rich Alonso talking about manipulated races...

I'll say no more :P

[Tifosi]

ma·nip·u·late

tr.v. ma·nip·u·lat·ed, ma·nip·u·lat·ing, ma·nip·u·lates

1. To move, arrange, operate, or control by the hands or by mechanical means, especially in a skillful manner: e.g. "Lewis manipulated his other tricky earring stud firmly into place and admired himself in his motorhome mirror."

2. To influence or manage shrewdly or deviously: e.g. "He tried to manipulate public opinion in his favor by constantly telling everyone that he drove his heart out".

3. To tamper with or falsify for personal gain: e.g. "He decided to overtake the safety car, knowingly breaking a rule and gaining an advantage as a result. The FIA would surely see through this deliberate manipulation of the race!?!".

4. Medicine: To handle and move in an examination or for therapeutic purposes: manipulate a joint; e.g. "Sid Watkins manupulated Lewis' head to check for injuries or any sign of non-narcissistic self-awareness. He found neither!"

[Voice of reason]

Did none of you see the safety car swerve out of the pit lane exit and cause Hamilton to slow briefly and then it swerved back into the pit lane? It`s there on the overhead view. You chaps really ought to just look at the facts and forget all the nationalistic rubbish. Surely the safety car has to obey the same rules as the drivers in not crossing that line?
Oh and by the way, you chaps at the Ferrari team would be advised to look for a driver who can concentrate on his racing (for the team`s sake) and not on some pathetic campaign against another driver. Was Fernando an only child or did he have to share his toys, he comes across as a boy who hasn`t grown up.

[Hermann]

There are trolls in this forum....i was waiting for them to show up lol

[Curbs]

So, the other teams don´t support Ferrari in this case. Rules are rules they say.
Well, point is, if we should follow the rules by the book to every letter (wich is their opinion), the other 9 cars should have had a 20 sec penalty, not a 5 sec.

[Tifosi]

Did none of you see the safety car swerve out of the pit lane exit and cause Hamilton to slow briefly and then it swerved back into the pit lane? It`s there on the overhead view. You chaps really ought to just look at the facts and forget all the nationalistic rubbish. Surely the safety car has to obey the same rules as the drivers in not crossing that line?
Oh and by the way, you chaps at the Ferrari team would be advised to look for a driver who can concentrate on his racing (for the team`s sake) and not on some pathetic campaign against another driver. Was Fernando an only child or did he have to share his toys, he comes across as a boy who hasn`t grown up.

Oooooo, voice of reason - where have you been all my life?

You finally show up after i make all these mistakes over all these years, and to cap it all, you turn out to be a Lewis Hamilton fan!!!!!!!

I fear I may disappear in a puff of logic at this realisation!

(sorry, I hate Mondays )

[RED]

I don't see that safety car swerving caused Lewis to slow. It didn't really swerve anyway. I just went a bit wider onto the line. I'm sure there are guidelines to safety car drivers, but what penalty would you give to the safety car driver then if they don't obey it???

[Hermann]

'Voice of reason' is a perfect nick for a troll. Great manipulation. Doesn't work for me though- i know a troll when i see one.

Well, now that some of the british press is asking for a race ban for Fernando because of his remarks, i come back to my wish from yesterday: they should have kept him in the back somewhere until he cooled down.

You simply can't let a guy like Fernando to the next journalist after a race like this. Not when it was the one which destroyed all his hopes to still fight for the title.

As much as i actually regret it, we live in a world of political correctness, and someone who speaks his mind as Fernando does will always be in danger to get into trouble.

[Rosso Corsa]

someone who speaks his mind as Fernando does will always be in danger to get into trouble.

Trouble??? That's something 10 year olds get in to. We'll be calling for Ferrari to smack his botty next. You always know where you are with someone who speaks their mind. The PC brigade on the other hand... They say stuff equally bad, but prefer to do it behind your back like cowards. The world needs more Fernandos. Fewer Lewis's.

[Hermann]

Trouble??? That's something 10 year olds get in to. We'll be calling for Ferrari to smack his botty next. You always know where you are with someone who speaks their mind. The PC brigade on the other hand... They say stuff equally bad, but prefer to do it behind your back like cowards. The world needs more Fernandos. Fewer Lewis's.

I agree, but as we know, the press will always shoot especially at Fernando with cannon balls. Not that i care, but there are many people who do.

[Ferrari_Fanatic]

As much as i actually regret it, we live in a world of political correctness, and someone who speaks his mind as Fernando does will always be in danger to get into trouble.

i actually like people who are straight forward at least you know where you stand. All you troll’s can get lost! if the boot were in the other hand and Alonso passed did the same you’d all be crying “Safety Gate”

[Alonsomaniac]

Fernando always says what he thinks about such kind of things. He always did and he always will. It's just the way he is, whether one likes it or not.
At least it's always clear where he stands.
Nobody will ever be able to stop that, not even Ferrari (in case they wanted to, which I don't believe).

[Hermann]

There is a very good interview in english on the Ferrari site with Fernando. He is being very careful avoiding the word 'manipulation' but he sounds extremely disappointed.

http://www.ferrari.com/English/Formu...term=400528531

[Tifosi]

Fernando always says what he thinks about such kind of things. He always did and he always will. It's just the way he is, whether one likes it or not.
At least it's always clear where he stands.
Nobody will ever be able to stop that, not even Ferrari (in case they wanted to, which I don't believe).

There's a certain irony to that, given that they had to prod his predecessor with sticks just to get him to say "hello"

[crewskas]

Can we know exactly when the investigation of the incident started?
We know that Maylander saw what happened, which means Charlie Whiting was aware of it, inside the next minute.
So, if they started to investigate it, after 10-15 minutes or more, then it is really a scandal.
I don't agree with Alonso though, that it was manipulated, but I can say that the delay was on purpose...
(I mean, it wasn't fixed before the race, but the fixed it when it happened)...

[Greig]

How do we know the SC driver saw it?

[crewskas]

How he saw Hamilton you mean?
They were close and before the 2nd pitlane line, Maylander was trying to get in the middle of the track, then he sees Hamster coming and pulled again inside the pitlane...
Even if he couldn't be sure if Hamilton passed him before or after the line (which I doubt, because at that time Hamilton and Maylander are going slowly), he certainly informed Whiting...
Whiting has an open line with the SC at all times...

[Greig]

Do you have any source for that though, saying it does not just make it true, how do you know he spoke to Charlie about it?

[crewskas]

How do I know that the SC driver talked to the sport principal about a car that passed him, when this is forbidden?
Do I need evidence for this?
I think it's the most obvious thing...
Anyway though, you can still need evidence.
How about Alonso?
When Alonso started to talk about it on the radio?
Obviously when he saw it.
Don't forget, that what we hear from team radio on TV is never live...!

[Greig]

So we don't know then

[crewskas]

No. We certainly know, at least Alonso told it in the radio when it happened. Which means, everyone is listening him, but also Ferrari went to clarify the situation.
So, since they knew soon enough, why they started too late the investigation (according to the tv card)?
That's why I'm asking the time, they started to investigate the incident...

[Greig]

Sorry we don't know, yes Alonso was complaining, but we have no source of what the SC seen, or told Charlie. Alonso complained yes, but I imagine Ferrari has to go and see if he has reason to complain firstly, takes time, then actually make the complaint.

[crewskas]

So, the stewards need a complaint to do their job...
Okay, this year, it seems to be true...
As they totally forgot Barichello in Monaco...

[Suzie]

The FIA have set precedence. It's okay to overtake the safety car and speed during a SC period. Glad that's clarified. I pity the Marshalls who's lives the FIA clearly have no regard for. You wouldn't catch me collecting debris from the track under this regime.

It did cross my mind about that marshall who ran out onto the track to collect that beer bottle. I know there wasn't a safety car at that point, but if there HAD been, and Lewis had just driven on past it, it doesn't bear thinking about the consequences.

[Greig]

So, the stewards need a complaint to do their job...
Okay, this year, it seems to be true...
As they totally forgot Barichello in Monaco...

No they don't but I bet a complaint gets them looking at it quicker, as we seen how long it took them to investigate the other 9 driver

[Bat]

Hi ppl
After reading all posts here http://www.thescuderia.net/forums/sh...e-Thread/page2 we can calculate time needed from Stewards to know about Hamilton's incident and their time of response...

14:22: m schumy posts SC on track
http://www.thescuderia.net/forums/sh...002#post610002

14:42 Greig posts Lewis under investigation, and Vettel too please surely?

http://www.thescuderia.net/forums/sh...084#post610084

14:49 m schumy posts Lewis gets a drive-through!!!! Yessss!!!!

http://www.thescuderia.net/forums/sh...109#post610109

14:54 Hermann posts See? Nothing happened. Still P2. Like expected

http://www.thescuderia.net/forums/sh...132#post610132

It's take them 20 mins from Sc incident till they announce their investigation, after that they takes 7 mins since they start investigation till they announce Hamilton's penalty (oh they're saying the truth...but what about 20 previous mins????). Hamilton did his best 5 mins later with a drive-through...(excellent gap isn't it?)

[Rob]

It did cross my mind about that marshall who ran out onto the track to collect that beer bottle. I know there wasn't a safety car at that point, but if there HAD been, and Lewis had just driven on past it, it doesn't bear thinking about the consequences.

good point. That was a very very risky stunt, F1 wouldnt want another dreadfull accident like Tom Pryce's. RIP Tom.

Thought Charlie was going to put SC out. How did that bottle get there? Is Bernie going to take action on the organisers for that? he would if happen here at Silverstone or Spa or even Interlagos.