Ferrari able to appeal FIA verdict due to loophole?

[kazi]

I've had some thinking and did some reading and asfaik these are the basic rules for time penalties:

1. Drive through penalties and other in-race penalties can not be appealed (common sense really)
2. 20s added time penalty serves as a post-race drive through and can not be appealed (mclaren knows this all to well after Spa some year ago)

All other forms of penalties are, asfaik, open for appeal. Right?
I've never heard of a 5s time penalty before and i've been watching F1 for over ten years. A 5s hardly serves as a post-race drive through or as any substitute for an in-race penalty and this should be open for appeal.

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/ru.../8683/fia.html
16.3 The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident:
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping;
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.
c) a drop of any number of grid positions at the driver's next Event.
However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 20 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned in the case of a) above and 30 seconds in the case of b).

Anyone knows for sure?

[Curbs]

Brilliant! I really hope we do protest this bad bad joke...

[LAROSA SpA]

This is a complete joke there just making up rules as they go along in 10 years of watching F1 I have never seen a 5 second penalty handed out.

Remember Monaco Schuamcher was handed a 20 sec penalty when the field spread was zero & now that the field spread (from 1st-10th) is 30 sec they give out 5 sec penalties ?!?!?

I say we boycott the next race & let the FIA see whats what.

[REDARMYSOJA]

I don't think time penalties can be appealed, but I'm not sure.

[Ferrarichamp]

The best response is to make the car faster. Hopefully we can still win races and still have a shot at WDC with Alonso.

[Stormsearcher]

The best response is to make the car faster. Hopefully we can still win races and still have a shot at WDC with Alonso.

True! that would be an apt response. But when races go this way, it really demotivates a team dude. Sitting millions of kms away, i feel like **** about todays race, cant imagine how the drivers and the engineers would be feeling.

[schuey612]

It was as if we were punnished for following the rules. in the past they never used to think twice about handing out a penetly durring the race, and only a couple of years ago the black flag (montoya canada). now they take ages to make deside what to do and usually just give em a slap on the wrist. the whole sports becoming softer and fluffy round the edges, what's happened to wheel to wheel races and when it goes wrong either a punch up or large penelty. it was much more fun when it used to be like that.

[RedDragon]

I haven't seen the race yet since I am only home from work during a lunch break, but from what I understand, Lewis was given a drive thru and all the others who violated the safety car issue were given 5s penalties. Also, Glock was given a 20s penalty for a seperate incident, but the 20s was instead of a drive-thru. If violating safety car rules = a drive thru for Lewis, and the stewards acknowledged with Glock that a drive thru = 20 seconds, shouldn't he presedent be a 20 second penalty instead of 5 seconds?

[Greig]

No the incidents were different, Lewis overtook the SC on track, the others just went too fast when they should have been slowing down

[hogo]

I want Ferrari to start playing dirty as well. I'm tired of all this nonsense, its not the first time we got screwed like this and not the last one trust me! So we should start cheating also and hopefully we will get away with it. First thing we should do is create active suspension and adjust high like RedBull does. Next thing we should do is ignore yellow flags like they are non existent. Such measures would surely improve our place on the standings and maybe slightly damage our reputation but who the hell cares about it anyways?

[netlord]

I don't beleive in conspiracies, but it's obvious Hamilton always gets "lighter" penalties from the FIA compared to Alonso.

[MarlboroFA]

I don't beleive in conspiracies, but it's obvious Hamilton always gets "lighter" penalties from the FIA compared to Alonso.

not only that ...They let him influence the "neutral" fans aswell http://www.formula1.com/news/intervi...0/6/10965.html

and if you look at the pictures of them sitting in the press conf...you can see that Hamilton has a notebook with him.....hmmmm that`s strange why should he have a notebook with him ???

[evo_spook]

I don't beleive in conspiracies, but it's obvious Hamilton always gets "lighter" penalties from the FIA compared to Alonso.

You mean like allowing Alonso to keep an illegal race win in 2008?

[epiclyaddicted]

I want Ferrari to start playing dirty as well. I'm tired of all this nonsense, its not the first time we got screwed like this and not the last one trust me! So we should start cheating also and hopefully we will get away with it. First thing we should do is create active suspension and adjust high like RedBull does. Next thing we should do is ignore yellow flags like they are non existent. Such measures would surely improve our place on the standings and maybe slightly damage our reputation but who the hell cares about it anyways?

+1 Let's also start using Fiorano every day of the week for "filming" days with the F10. If others get away with making a mockery of the rules and regs, so should we!

[REDARMYSOJA]

I've had some thinking and did some reading and asfaik these are the basic rules for time penalties:

1. Drive through penalties and other in-race penalties can not be appealed (common sense really)
2. 20s added time penalty serves as a post-race drive through and can not be appealed (mclaren knows this all to well after Spa some year ago)

All other forms of penalties are, asfaik, open for appeal. Right?
I've never heard of a 5s time penalty before and i've been watching F1 for over ten years. A 5s hardly serves as a post-race drive through or as any substitute for an in-race penalty and this should be open for appeal.



Anyone knows for sure?

I thought that Mercedes couldn't appeal the penalty given to Schumi after Monaco because time penalties couldn't be appealed. But maybe that just applies to the offending party and not the offended, I don't know.

[kazi]

I thought that Mercedes couldn't appeal the penalty given to Schumi after Monaco because time penalties couldn't be appealed. But maybe that just applies to the offending party and not the offended, I don't know.

You can not appeal penalties given during a race, correct. Because of this, 20s penalties can not be appealed by anyone, they serve as a post-race drive through. In essence they are given when the penalty was supposed to be given out during the race but there was no time for them.

5s penalties on the other hand can not be given during a race, there is just no way. Thus it should, in my mind, be treated as a traditional penalty (like race bans, fines, etc) which are always open for appeals.

Hope that made sense? :)

[Ferrari_gal]

I want Ferrari to start playing dirty as well. I'm tired of all this nonsense, its not the first time we got screwed like this and not the last one trust me! So we should start cheating also and hopefully we will get away with it. First thing we should do is create active suspension and adjust high like RedBull does. Next thing we should do is ignore yellow flags like they are non existent. Such measures would surely improve our place on the standings and maybe slightly damage our reputation but who the hell cares about it anyways?

How petty is this ?????? Ferrari does not need to go that route. We will get caught for sure and anyway that is not the way to go about it.

[straycat]

that the race did seem manipulated. i dont think i have ever seen him this upset...Filipe is also extremely upset as he went from something like 5th to 17th? if Ferrari ever leaves F1 I will follow...until then I hope we get faster and drive harder.
you know, i have never paid much attention to hamilton, but his post race comments concerning Shumi make me realize that, he seems to be a spoiled, arrogant, jerk.
Dream team...hamilton and vettle at mclaren, yes i would like very much to see those self-centered, arrogant egos collide.

[REDARMYSOJA]

You can not appeal penalties given during a race, correct. Because of this, 20s penalties can not be appealed by anyone, they serve as a post-race drive through. In essence they are given when the penalty was supposed to be given out during the race but there was no time for them.

5s penalties on the other hand can not be given during a race, there is just no way. Thus it should, in my mind, be treated as a traditional penalty (like race bans, fines, etc) which are always open for appeals.

Hope that made sense? :)

I agree and yes, it made sense.

[KurtC]

Hello, this race really me off, how lucky can someone be to first.... get a safety car and change the broke front wing.... get out of the pits and have a slow car behind slowing everybody down, then just get away with a penalty and not lose position after breaking a rule.... This was a good chance to get podium again ... this race was a joke... anyway let's hope Ferrari can improve in the next race, and keep the pace

[nash929]

The best response is to make the car faster. Hopefully we can still win races and still have a shot at WDC with Alonso.

That is the Best response. Kick the Macca's be-hinds in their home race.

[gabobito]

5 second penalty is a joke, really. A rule was broken so it's either the drivers serve a drive through or a 10 second pit penalty. But since it was given at the end of the race, the only penalty they could give was a 20 sec penalty. I don't know where they came up with the 5 sec penalty.

Hamilton broke a rule and got a drive thru penalty. But the stewards took forever to decide what to do with him and that allowed him to "nullify" his drive thru.

Unfair.

[Becool70]

I want Ferrari to start playing dirty as well. I'm tired of all this nonsense, its not the first time we got screwed like this and not the last one trust me! So we should start cheating also and hopefully we will get away with it. First thing we should do is create active suspension and adjust high like RedBull does. Next thing we should do is ignore yellow flags like they are non existent. Such measures would surely improve our place on the standings and maybe slightly damage our reputation but who the hell cares about it anyways?

We would have never gotten away with it!! If Alonso did what HAMster did he would have been given a drivethough within 3 laps not 15!! Ferrari need to do it right and go get these cheaters!!

[XXX132]

If we could make the car quicker we would have done it already....

[RedDragon]

No the incidents were different, Lewis overtook the SC on track, the others just went too fast when they should have been slowing down

Ok, thanks for clarifying . I'm sitting down to watch it now. (still wearing red of course )

[epiclyaddicted]

Had Lewis been given a 10 second stop-go penalty instead of the drive-through, then he probably would have come out of the pits just behind Alonso, or thereabouts. The stop-go penalty would have been a more fitting punishment for what he did. The safety car is meant to slow the field down and neutralise the race, not throw the race up in the air and turn it into a lottery.

As it stands, next time there's safety car incident, our drivers might as well do hell with the yellow flag/SC regulations and continue racing!

[Hermann]

Had Lewis been given a 10 second stop-go penalty instead of the drive-through, then he probably would have come out of the pits just behind Alonso, or thereabouts. The stop-go penalty would have been a more fitting punishment for what he did. The safety car is meant to slow the field down and neutralise the race, not throw the race up in the air and turn it into a lottery.

As it stands, next time there's safety car incident, our drivers might as well do hell with the yellow flag/SC regulations and continue racing!

Only if Hamilton does the same. Otherwise, our cars would be blackflagged or something.