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Thread: Ferrari’s quali performance

  1. #1
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    Ferrari’s quali performance

    Do you guys think that we’ve been looked at remapping the ECU and have a setting that we can change with a flick of a button on the steering wheel like Red Bull has (assuming that’s what they’re using) to get that extra downforce needed to dominate in quali like they do.

    I mean it’s clearly they’re doing something to have a gap of .7seconds or bigger in comparison to 3rd or 4th place on the grid.

    I’m only saying/asking this because Alonso seems pretty confident that this second half of the season will change in our favor; and he wouldn’t say that out in the open if he, us (Ferrari) wouldn’t have some solid facts.

    In any case, i’m hoping we have figured out what the BULLS had/has that makes them this fast in quali, and if we did figure them out i think this second part of the season is gonna be more enjoyable for us as well as everybody back at Maranello factory.

    Forza Ferrari.
    So the SF-24 has been a decent car. Lets hope that the totally redesigned from the ground up SF-25 contender will be a beast that will give us tifosi something to smile about.

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    There are some rumours running around different F1 forums that Ferrari might start using this special engine mode this weekend in Hockenheim. Mind you, these are only internet forum rumours, but you never know. Ferrari say they are bringing an updated diffuser this weekend, so that might have something to do with it. I just hope we don't cook another engine with this 'special mode', as apparently it can be very stressful on engines.
    So we'll see. If RBR can do it, I'm sure Ferrari can figure it out too. Same for other big teams, but hopefully we'll figure out and use the system before McLaren and the rest do.

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    I thought the ECU was standard for all
    Forza Ferrari

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    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    I thought the ECU was standard for all
    Yes it is. That is why if RBR can do it, Ferrari can do it too.

    This ignition retard mapping would be controlled via the SECU via the driver selecting a steering wheel control, using quite normal tuning parameters and not some clever workaround. Of course this is all quite legal.

    If the overheating issues can be contained, this would be a relatively simple mapping to introduce for another EBD team.


    Hopefully that is what's Ferrari latest diffuser update is all about.

    http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/0...teams-q3-pace/

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    This is only used in the hot lap in Q3, and only during the slow corners. So I don't think it's that detrimental to engine reliability.

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    very intresting! i wonder why that's why Alonso is more confident!

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    Ferrari looking for pole.

    Ferrari is set to use the Red Bull exhaust system in Hockenhaim. As OmniCorse.it reveals the Scuderia will try the Red Bull delay exhaust system in the German GP.

    http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/306...nche-in-rilasc




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    Quote Originally Posted by bulgh View Post
    Ferrari is set to use the Red Bull exhaust system in Hockenhaim. As OmniCorse.it reveals the Scuderia will try the Red Bull delay exhaust system in the German GP.

    http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/306...nche-in-rilasc
    This article seems to suggest it indeed can be used/invoked during the race as well as qualifying and that there is a solution to at least mitigate the heat damage issues.

    Bot translation of the article:-
    Even Ferrari to Hockenheim will have a mapping of control unit that will delay time from engine, allowing the pilot to maintain engine in shooting even when these will take its foot off the accelerator. In this way it is possible that discharges blowers on the diffuser guarantee an additional downforce, while maintaining a minimum pressure which otherwise would lose in release phase. We say now that this is not a gimmick of Maranello, but yet another solution copied from Red Bul Racing and then developed taking into account the characteristics of F10. In Britain there is who was convinced that it was precisely thanks to this that the Rb6 have always something extra in capacity and various experts argued that the eight pole positions conquered on nine Gp were the fruit of this solution. Apparently we put with peace of mind because the ignition delay helps make the monoposto less unstable, but would those advantages be insured, seven tenths in one round on competition. Lingers sagacemente Adrian Newey has developed a strategy that Renault was using to safeguard its engines R30: the delay on/off, in fact, it was thought to improve the reliability of transalpine V8 and not to improve performance. Unlike what you thought and wrote, in fact, with this electronic mapping not inject more gasoline, but it makes sure that the intake and exhaust those you remain open at the same time for a moment. Then the exhaust gases, in release phase, would only hot air (otherwise there would a considerable increase of consumption): transalpine technicians had conceived this solution to reduce temperatures in the heart of the engine, thus extending the life of the engine. Adrian Newey, which is a perfectionist, tried to exploit this opportunity in aerodynamic terms: is it for this that has set the Rb6 with discharges blowers, but from what it was able to seize, this gimmick is not only useful for a lap in qualifying, but can be used in the race and not only for a ride. In short, the additional load can be useful to stabilize the single seater, ensuring a small increase of load, but certainly not the solution that makes slippery, the Red Bull, so the "hunting" starts over and went back to look with particular attention in the area of the suspensions. Ferrari, for its part, continues the development of a package which is optimized for maximum performance: the trial is conducted in a simulator from Alonso and Massa would have highlighted that the F10 with the latest news should be able to fight for the victory. We will see to Hockenheim, though the fear of technical director Aldo Costa is that it has not yet closed completely the gap by Webber and Vettel in qualifying lap: and it is precisely on this subject who are working hard at Maranello ... by Franco Nugnes

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    Thanks Spanky, reading that was a bit like listening to Flavio Briatore talk you through a technical document. You get the gist whilst simultaneously not being able to understand what's being said.

    I do hope we've made strides for this race and that Alonso has legitimate reasons to be so optimistic about the second half of this season.


    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

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    Quote Originally Posted by NJB13 View Post
    This article seems to suggest it indeed can be used/invoked during the race as well as qualifying and that there is a solution to at least mitigate the heat damage issues.

    Bot translation of the article:-
    Even Ferrari to Hockenheim will have a mapping of control unit that will delay time from engine, allowing the pilot to maintain engine in shooting even when these will take its foot off the accelerator. In this way it is possible that discharges blowers on the diffuser guarantee an additional downforce, while maintaining a minimum pressure which otherwise would lose in release phase. We say now that this is not a gimmick of Maranello, but yet another solution copied from Red Bul Racing and then developed taking into account the characteristics of F10. In Britain there is who was convinced that it was precisely thanks to this that the Rb6 have always something extra in capacity and various experts argued that the eight pole positions conquered on nine Gp were the fruit of this solution. Apparently we put with peace of mind because the ignition delay helps make the monoposto less unstable, but would those advantages be insured, seven tenths in one round on competition. Lingers sagacemente Adrian Newey has developed a strategy that Renault was using to safeguard its engines R30: the delay on/off, in fact, it was thought to improve the reliability of transalpine V8 and not to improve performance. Unlike what you thought and wrote, in fact, with this electronic mapping not inject more gasoline, but it makes sure that the intake and exhaust those you remain open at the same time for a moment. Then the exhaust gases, in release phase, would only hot air (otherwise there would a considerable increase of consumption): transalpine technicians had conceived this solution to reduce temperatures in the heart of the engine, thus extending the life of the engine. Adrian Newey, which is a perfectionist, tried to exploit this opportunity in aerodynamic terms: is it for this that has set the Rb6 with discharges blowers, but from what it was able to seize, this gimmick is not only useful for a lap in qualifying, but can be used in the race and not only for a ride. In short, the additional load can be useful to stabilize the single seater, ensuring a small increase of load, but certainly not the solution that makes slippery, the Red Bull, so the "hunting" starts over and went back to look with particular attention in the area of the suspensions. Ferrari, for its part, continues the development of a package which is optimized for maximum performance: the trial is conducted in a simulator from Alonso and Massa would have highlighted that the F10 with the latest news should be able to fight for the victory. We will see to Hockenheim, though the fear of technical director Aldo Costa is that it has not yet closed completely the gap by Webber and Vettel in qualifying lap: and it is precisely on this subject who are working hard at Maranello ... by Franco Nugnes
    Well, that just about sums it all up!!! no seriously tho....the drag-racers have been messing around with ignition timing and camshaft profiles since the 40s!!!!!!!!!! In Formula 1 nowadays with pneumatic valve trains such as they have there is far more scope for excessive valve overlap and spark timing... i mean, its easy when you think about it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifosi View Post
    Thanks Spanky, reading that was a bit like listening to Flavio Briatore talk you through a technical document. You get the gist whilst simultaneously not being able to understand what's being said.

    I do hope we've made strides for this race and that Alonso has legitimate reasons to be so optimistic about the second half of this season.

    Fernando usuallymakes a strong to the season like a charging Bull getting up to top speed very quickly........but this Bull is gathering pace to make its killer lunge for glory at the end!!! (forgot to add that if Fernando dont win it, then I rteally hope Mark does!!!! :)

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    Alonso also finally be able to mount the new rear suspension, which couldn't mount up to change the gearbox...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DIEK View Post
    Alonso also finally be able to mount the new rear suspension, which couldn't mount up to change the gearbox...
    I might be wrong, but I thought we did that at Silverstone? Massa got the new rear suspension at Valencia and Alonso got it at Silverstone once his 4 race cycle was over.

    Yea, here you go:

    Another good news, for Fernando Alonso this time, is that the Spaniard will benefit from a new gearbox at Silverstone. In Valencia, only Felipe Massa's car had a new gearbox, as Alonso's was subject to a four-race mandatory period for its existing transmission. Apart from the new gearbox, Alonso will also have a new suspension configuration for his F10.

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    I have this picture in head of the RB team members staring blankly at the monitors as we take pole. With the expressions in their faces clearly saying "Crap, cat's out of the bag"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brakefade View Post
    I have this picture in head of the RB team members staring blankly at the monitors as we take pole. With the expressions in their faces clearly saying "Crap, cat's out of the bag"
    Would love it if that were to come true

    Forza Ferrari !!
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    If Ferrari starts getting poles it will mean that championship is possible!
    Rosso=Passione=Ferrari
    Ferrari & Alonso a dream come truth!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bulgh View Post
    If Ferrari starts getting poles it will mean that championship is possible!
    not only poles, but a whole lot of 1-2 finishes as well....then we probably have the posibility of winning not just WDC but also WCC....that would be just SWEET!!!!!

    Forza Ferrari!!!!
    So the SF-24 has been a decent car. Lets hope that the totally redesigned from the ground up SF-25 contender will be a beast that will give us tifosi something to smile about.

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    man counting our chickens before they are hatched are we?...
    we're number one

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ste View Post
    I might be wrong, but I thought we did that at Silverstone? Massa got the new rear suspension at Valencia and Alonso got it at Silverstone once his 4 race cycle was over.

    Yea, here you go:
    We had many doubts and said many things, but ...read this official FIA report of British GP:


    2010 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

    From : The FIA Formula One Technical Delegate
    Document : 22
    To : The Stewards of the Meeting
    Date
    : 10 July 2010
    Time
    : 19:57

    TECHNICAL DELEGATE’S REPORT
    The following drivers will start the tenth Event of the 2010 Formula One World
    Championship with a new gearbox:


    Number
    Car
    Driver
    17
    STR Ferrari
    Jaime Alguersuari
    The above driver used his previous gearbox for five consecutive events in conformity with
    Article 28.6a of the 2010 Formula One Sporting Regulations.
    Number
    Car
    Driver
    06
    Red Bull Racing Renault
    Mark Webber
    10
    Williams Cosworth
    Nico Hülkenberg
    19
    Lotus Cosworth
    Heikki Kovalainen
    The above drivers did not finish the last race in Valencia and are in conformity with Article
    28.6a of the 2010 Formula One Sporting Regulations.
    Jo Bauer
    FIA Formula One Technical Delegat


    LINK: (in cache, they erase the original from his page) (page 6)

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ace-report.pdf

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    I was also under the impression that Alonso changed his gearbox at Silverstone

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    In fact this is correct....Alonso changed gearbox in china and turkey so he is due for a new one in germany whilst Massa changed his in Spain and Valencia

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    Ok, cheers DIEK, that's clarified for me. Strange about all the other reports saying otherwise, but that's pretty official.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrari4life View Post
    man counting our chickens before they are hatched are we?...
    EXACTLY, as "The Wolf" said in Pulp Fiction; "Let's not start sucking each others' d*cks just yet gentlemen"

    I am hopeful, but not overwelming with expectation. let see what we do.

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    There were some unusual noises coming out of the Ferrari engine today.
    Forever Ferrari

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    Quote Originally Posted by mandzipop View Post
    There were some unusual noises coming out of the Ferrari engine today.
    ....so in other words, you think we have something up our sleeve....ala Red BULL???
    i guess we won't be able to see that until Q3 tomorrow, since it's not that healthy for the engine to run that kind of mapping all the time...hence we'll use it in Q3 like Reb Bull and hopefully come out on top...securing the front row with both cars....

    that would be SIMPLY AMZING
    So the SF-24 has been a decent car. Lets hope that the totally redesigned from the ground up SF-25 contender will be a beast that will give us tifosi something to smile about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    ....so in other words, you think we have something up our sleeve....ala Red BULL???
    i guess we won't be able to see that until Q3 tomorrow, since it's not that healthy for the engine to run that kind of mapping all the time...hence we'll use it in Q3 like Reb Bull and hopefully come out on top...securing the front row with both cars....

    that would be SIMPLY AMZING
    Well Alonso did say

    "In order to be in front tomorrow, we will have to do something out of the ordinary".

    Maybe they are going to try it.
    Forever Ferrari

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    i've read on another forum that Ferrari might have been experimenting through the weekend with the Constant Exhaust Gas System; this is what someone on there said:

    One of Ferrari's developments for its car this weekend is a constant exhaust-gas pressure system to feed the blown diffuser.
    Red Bull's dominance in Q3 qualifying this year has been attributed to an engine management system that keeps exhaust gases flowing through the blown diffuser even when the driver is not on the throttle in slow corners. Diario Sport claims that Ferrari's version was tested for the first time in Hockenheim practice.
    Another Spanish newspaper, AS, said Ferrari, Renault and McLaren are known to be experimenting in the area of constant exhaust pressure. Fernando Alonso topped the afternoon timesheet in Germany on Friday, but revealed that he still expects Red Bull to be setting the pace in qualifying.
    "We know that Red Bull are the ones to beat on a Saturday," he said. "We hope that on this Saturday we can make it harder for them."
    Ferrari is still pushing ahead with developments for the 2010 car, but two pundits believe the Italian team is now out of the fight for the title.
    "The world title for them is gone," Niki Lauda told Blick newspaper, and Eddie Jordan is quoted by Germany's Die Welt: "I think Ferrari have no chance of winning the championship."

    is this the reason we nearly got POLE, you guys think???
    i mean clearly we were faster then the McCheaters by nearly 1 second, which we weren't in previous races, espcially silverstone
    So the SF-24 has been a decent car. Lets hope that the totally redesigned from the ground up SF-25 contender will be a beast that will give us tifosi something to smile about.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    i've read on another forum that Ferrari might have been experimenting through the weekend with the Constant Exhaust Gas System; this is what someone on there said:

    One of Ferrari's developments for its car this weekend is a constant exhaust-gas pressure system to feed the blown diffuser.
    Red Bull's dominance in Q3 qualifying this year has been attributed to an engine management system that keeps exhaust gases flowing through the blown diffuser even when the driver is not on the throttle in slow corners. Diario Sport claims that Ferrari's version was tested for the first time in Hockenheim practice.
    Another Spanish newspaper, AS, said Ferrari, Renault and McLaren are known to be experimenting in the area of constant exhaust pressure. Fernando Alonso topped the afternoon timesheet in Germany on Friday, but revealed that he still expects Red Bull to be setting the pace in qualifying.
    "We know that Red Bull are the ones to beat on a Saturday," he said. "We hope that on this Saturday we can make it harder for them."
    Ferrari is still pushing ahead with developments for the 2010 car, but two pundits believe the Italian team is now out of the fight for the title.
    "The world title for them is gone," Niki Lauda told Blick newspaper, and Eddie Jordan is quoted by Germany's Die Welt: "I think Ferrari have no chance of winning the championship."

    is this the reason we nearly got POLE, you guys think???
    i mean clearly we were faster then the McCheaters by nearly 1 second, which we weren't in previous races, espcially silverstone
    I think it is related. There were rumours prior to the weekend that Ferrari might use it. Whether it is easy to install is a different matter. Some say it is just down to rngine mapping, but I think that the EBD has to be fully operational for it to work. I could be wrong though.
    Forever Ferrari

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    I dunno, from our comments it seemed we were shocked to be so close to the Red Bull in qual, could just be mind games though
    Forza Ferrari

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