German GP Race Thread

[maho]

How long does it usually take until teams actually appear at the WMC when summoned?

[Tommy_F]

On a lighter note, the fine for fixing a race is the same as breaking the speed limit in the pits during practice by 500km/h (200euros/kmh over the limit)

[Sianellen]

jakehumphreyf1 Breakung News - it's a 100k fine, referal to World Motorsport Council so more sanctions may follow

[Ste]

How long does it usually take until teams actually appear at the WMC when summoned?

It will probably be after we win both championships. They'll DQ us for the race and we will lose both.

That's the sort of thing they'd do.

[Tech_Skill]

You know what, lets forget that WMC stuff for now, bottom line is, today the points are ours, if they take them away from the drivers at a later date, then it only de-legitimises the championship. So if they are willing to do that, then fine, rigght now, the points are in the bag and Alonso wont give a toss about this, he will be thinking about winning the next race and collecting more points.

[Ste]

jakehumphreyf1 Breakung News - it's a 100k fine, referal to World Motorsport Council so more sanctions may follow

Doubt they will penalise us. Then they would have to penalise every other team for their team orders.

[Julie B]

From Autosport

The FIA has announced that its World Motor Sport Council is to consider whether Ferrari should face further sanctions for the team orders controversy at the German Grand Prix, after the team was fined $100,000 for its actions.

Fernando Alonso was handed victory at Hockenheim after his Ferrari team-mate Felipe Massa sacrificed the lead on lap 48 - soon after the team had told the Brazilian that he was slower than the car behind him.

Although Ferrari has insisted that it did not issue a team order, and merely provided Massa with information, the race stewards after the German GP had a different opinion.

After speaking to team principal Stefano Domenicali, team manager Massimo Rivola, plus Alonso and Massa to examine the events of the afternoon, the race stewards decided that the regulations had been broken.

In a statement issued on Sunday night, the FIA stated that a breach of Article 39.1, which bans team orders, and 151c, which relates to bringing the sport into disrepute, had been committed.

It said that the penalty would be: "Fine $100,000. The case will also be referred to the FIA World Motorsport Council for further consideration."

[Tommy_F]

Doubt they will penalise us. Then they would have to penalise every other team for their team orders.

Would be ironic if Jean Todt would penalise US for FIXING A RACE wouldn't it?
(he is the president of the WMSC)

[Tech_Skill]

lol @ Planet f1 aka Planet Mclaren, so desperate to see ferrari lose points, when Lewis jumped the safety car or weaved about 16 times infront of petrov, it was never an issue though.

Im from UK, but the nationalist undercurrent is disgusting.

[GamD]

Doubt they will penalise us. Then they would have to penalise every other team for their team orders.

I really hope your right, but how else would they enforce the rule? 100k would be cheap price to break the team orders rule.

[Tech_Skill]

Would be ironic if Jean Todt would penalise US for FIXING A RACE wouldn't it?
(he is the president of the WMSC)

Mate, we supported him to get to that position didnt we? i think Luca D and Schumacher et al all gave him great reviews, he owes us and its payback time. lol.

[Tommy_F]

And if you care, at the 2002 Austrian GP the fine was $1 million

http://twitter.com/EliGP/status/19505484765

[Sianellen]

Difference is, before there wasn't a rule about it and now there is, and we made it so blatant what we did, that we have a lot to answer for now.

[FFFerrari]

In other words, the stewards think we used team orders and will leave the real penalty decisions to WMSC.

[Brakefade]

Just a little bit of history.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=40626

[Tifosi]

Doubt they will penalise us. Then they would have to penalise every other team for their team orders.

Not really Ste. There's team orders that no-one cares about and there's team orders that bring the sport into disrepute and make a mockery of it. Saying everybody does it doesn't change the significance of that and therefore the gravity.

[Ste]

Difference is, before there wasn't a rule about it and now there is, and we made it so blatant what we did, that we have a lot to answer for now.

Well, nobody specifically said "move over" or anything like that. It was Massa's decision and it was his choice to make it so blatant. Maybe you should Blame Massa for not making it look accidental rather than slagging off Alonso and co.

This isn't me saying it's Massa's fault by the way, not at all, it wasn't. Just saying that the team didn't go on the radio and tell him to slow down as much as possible and make it all look very blatant and obvious.

If he'd ran wide at the hairpin, nobody would have batted an eyelid.

But again, that isn't me blaming Massa so please don't take it that way.

[Tifoso]

Fined $100K That is more than penalty enough.

My question: do you guys think that we have finally made the leap in performance, or is this a track related 1 of?

[Hornet]

From Autosport
...
Although Ferrari has insisted that it did not issue a team order, and merely provided Massa with information, the race stewards after the German GP had a different opinion.

I really need to hear the steward's explanation on this.
What concrete evidence do they have to support their opinion?
Or does their legal system allow the stewards to follow their gut feeling

[Tech_Skill]

Well, nobody specifically said "move over" or anything like that.

Well this is exactly what the lawyer will have to tell the WMC, how can it be team orders if no driver was asked to move over, no order was ever given.

Is that right?

Mind you F1 is such a joke these days, its one rule for ferrari and another for other teams.

[Sianellen]

Well, nobody specifically said "move over" or anything like that. It was Massa's decision and it was his choice to make it so blatant. Maybe you should Blame Massa for not making it look accidental rather than slagging off Alonso and co.

This isn't me saying it's Massa's fault by the way, not at all, it wasn't. Just saying that the team didn't go on the radio and tell him to slow down as much as possible and make it all look very blatant and obvious.

If he'd ran wide at the hairpin, nobody would have batted an eyelid.

But again, that isn't me blaming Massa so please don't take it that way.

So Stefano and LC didn't make it look every so slightly obvious either then. Why should Massa have to move when he earned his position. It's not slagging Alonso off to want him to earn it for himself.

[Ste]

Fined $100K That is more than penalty enough.

My question: do you guys think that we have finally made the leap in performance, or is this a track related 1 of?

Bit of both mate. We made a massive gain in Valencia and Silverstone and they're totally different tracks to Hockenheim. We performed there, but came out with results that didn't reflect it. The car was suited to the track today and we showed that, but we've definitely improved. I think we will be strong at Hungary too since our traction has been phenomenal this weekend.

[Julie B]

I'm erring on the side of they're punishing us not for the team orders for but being so blatent about it

[Hermann]

I really need to hear the steward's explanation on this.
What concrete evidence do they have to support their opinion?
Or does their legal system allow the stewards to follow their gut feeling

I think so, yes- there is that passus 'sanction to the stewards descretion' in the rules.

[Ste]

So Stefano and LC didn't make it look every so slightly obvious either then.

Well once the deed was done, what else could they do?

Apart from tell the truth of course.

[brembo man]

Would be ironic if Jean Todt would penalise US for FIXING A RACE wouldn't it?
(he is the president of the WMSC)

Someone would have to explain to Todt what team orders are, so only then can he make an honest call on the situation at hand. I'm sure he wil find it very hard to believe Ferrari would even dream of such a thing.

[Tifoso]

Bit of both mate. We made a massive gain in Valencia and Silverstone and they're totally different tracks to Hockenheim. We performed there, but came out with results that didn't reflect it. The car was suited to the track today and we showed that, but we've definitely improved. I think we will be strong at Hungary too since our traction has been phenomenal this weekend.

Excellent. Thanks, mate

[Hornet]

Fined $100K That is more than penalty enough.

My question: do you guys think that we have finally made the leap in performance, or is this a track related 1 of?

I think we have made some significant improvement.
IMO we've been suffering at tracks that relies a lot on downforce where there are many fast sweeping corners. When we went to Monaco, we wasn't so bad there actually.

This track has lots of medium to fast corners and I was expecting us to be at a disadvantage again, but we did great, so IMO they may have starting to tackle the car's weakness

I hope so anyway

[Rookie]

Bit of both mate. We made a massive gain in Valencia and Silverstone and they're totally different tracks to Hockenheim. We performed there, but came out with results that didn't reflect it. The car was suited to the track today and we showed that, but we've definitely improved. I think we will be strong at Hungary too since our traction has been phenomenal this weekend.

I'am happy atleast now that its between us, Redbull and Mclaren. Hungary will be the real test to see if we've improved out car to match them. I see Hungary as another tough race so long as the WMC doesn't do too much damage.

[BigRedOne]

Fined $100K That is more than penalty enough.

My question: do you guys think that we have finally made the leap in performance, or is this a track related 1 of?

IMO, I think we have made a jump. How is this track vastly different??