Massa dismisses Ferrari number two claims

**Grillo** · 29th July 2010, 19:22

Originally Posted by Tech_Skill

There is one reason why this particular team order (not the 1st one this season) is being highlighted by the media and thats because it involves Alonso.

I understand it's scaring that Ferrari&Alonso could dominate the last part of the season. They've been lucky enough that we have had very few normal races this season but it may have changed in Hockenheim. I just hate this long break in August just now...

**racingbradley** · 29th July 2010, 20:43

Originally Posted by Tech_Skill

This crap about Alonso not being able to get past Massa has got to stop, when Alonso done him coming into the pit lane, people complained because he passed his teammate, if Alonso complained over the team radio that massa would get to the pits 1st and had not of made the move, people would have said why didnt he get past? He can never win.

Tell me why????????
Quite honestly if I had been team manager that day Mr Alonso would have been sent straight back out again and told to learn some manners but there again Santander money speaks and we are going to give in to him all of the time. He's not going to have any "character forming experiences" while he's with us.
Poor Massa.

**Curbs** · 29th July 2010, 20:52

Yeah, poor poor Massa, earns a lot of money from Ferrari, and yet the whole Massa-family has to cry in the press and create bad PR for the company that feeds them at the end of the day.

buhuu

And yes, Ferrari should learn Alonso lessons during a race and take points from him, points that should make them win a WDC title

, wich would generate GOOD PR and help making the Ferraribrand stronger.
At the end of the day, thats why both Fernando and Felipe are there. Building a brand, by racing that brands car in the best way possible.The best way possible is for Ferrari to decide, not Massa or his family.

**racingbradley** · 29th July 2010, 21:14

Originally Posted by Curbs

At the end of the day, thats why both Fernando and Felipe are there. Building a brand, by racing that brands car in the best way possible.The best way possible is for Ferrari to decide, not Massa or his family.

We the fans expect standards from our sports people. Passing your team mate in the pit lane where he had to take avoiding action onto the grass to prevent both cars ending up out of the race------now that is reckless and dangerous.
Ruining your team mates race by deliberately turning into him and spoiling his race just because he had a better start and had the audacity to try & pass.
Before you say fan girl go away I have you believe that I am a true Ferrari fan who expects the red team to uphold certain standards which might just help to maintain their prestige which I am sure will benefit the brand.
Sometimes I did not always agree with Michael's actions but at least he treated his team mates with RESPECT.

**Grillo** · 29th July 2010, 22:59

Originally Posted by racingbradley

Tell me why????????
Quite honestly if I had been team manager that day Mr Alonso would have been sent straight back out again and told to learn some manners but there again Santander money speaks and we are going to give in to him all of the time. He's not going to have any "character forming experiences" while he's with us.
Poor Massa.

This is something you don't know, do you? Alonso could have heating problems next year with the new Pirelli tyres and they might suit Massa perfectly. Who knows? Of course Alonso would find it hard to accept it but Ferrari will do what is best for the team, won't they?

A reminder: Kimi won WDC in 2007 because Alonso didn't play second fiddle at McLaren. He fought up to the last checkered flag and that's why he's now in Ferrari, because he never gives up. I'm a Kimi fan so don't tell me I'm bashing him in any way Ferrari, Kimi, Massa won because they worked as a team.

**Tifosi** · 29th July 2010, 23:10

Originally Posted by Curbs

Yeah, poor poor Massa, earns a lot of money from Ferrari, and yet the whole Massa-family has to cry in the press and create bad PR for the company that feeds them at the end of the day.

buhuu

And yes, Ferrari should learn Alonso lessons during a race and take points from him, points that should make them win a WDC title

, wich would generate GOOD PR and help making the Ferraribrand stronger.
At the end of the day, thats why both Fernando and Felipe are there. Building a brand, by racing that brands car in the best way possible.The best way possible is for Ferrari to decide, not Massa or his family.

how wonderfully assumptive & business clinical

**Suzie** · 29th July 2010, 23:12

Antonio Massa better not say anymore - the kids in the Massa family need new shoes

**Brakefade** · 30th July 2010, 01:03

Originally Posted by Effone

Not true, Santander would not allow their beloved Alonso to be a #2

Massa is #2 until either a: he leaves the team or b: Alonso leaves. simple fact.

BS. You're telling me that Ferrari would've pulled this off in Bahrain? No way. If Massa can show that his faster next year, by doing what Alonso has done this year to him, trust me, Luca will back Massa up for the WDC.

**killer** · 30th July 2010, 02:29

Originally Posted by Curbs

It common sense. I I don´t get that people are so forgiving for exactly this kind of behaviour.

If I run a company and pay someone a lot of money I expect them to be loyal. This is what borth Massa and his father claims they are. Ehhh.
If they have a problem they should talk with the Ferrari management behind closed doors.
Insted even his father goes to the press and cries, making Ferrari look stupid and creating BAD BAD BAD PR for the company that feeds his family for heavens sake.
That is not loyal. Not even close.

Why would I be in a position to forgive?

I agree the whole thing was not exactly well-handled, but what's done is done. Ferrari have been through worse and they still remain; no need to be overly worried about bad press--this will be forgotten come the next controversy--and guess what? Ferrari will still be Ferrari. Let it go.

**killer** · 30th July 2010, 02:31

Originally Posted by Curbs

Yeah, poor poor Massa, earns a lot of money from Ferrari, and yet the whole Massa-family has to cry in the press and create bad PR for the company that feeds them at the end of the day.

buhuu

And yes, Ferrari should learn Alonso lessons during a race and take points from him, points that should make them win a WDC title

, wich would generate GOOD PR and help making the Ferraribrand stronger.
At the end of the day, thats why both Fernando and Felipe are there. Building a brand, by racing that brands car in the best way possible.The best way possible is for Ferrari to decide, not Massa or his family.

Stop for a moment and think: do you honestly believe that Ferrari--a company that spends ZERO on marketing and advertising--are still in the process of building a brand?

**Alonso05-06** · 30th July 2010, 02:35

"Fernando is FASTER than you"

"Can you confirm you understand that message"?

**Curbs** · 30th July 2010, 08:03

Originally Posted by killer

Stop for a moment and think: do you honestly believe that Ferrari--a company that spends ZERO on marketing and advertising--are still in the process of building a brand?

Yes, a brand doesn´t stay on top once you get there. It stays for years yes, but it needs work all the time to stay on top.

**Curbs** · 30th July 2010, 08:04

Originally Posted by Tifosi

how wonderfully assumptive & business clinical

I think what Luca said was the same thing.

**killer** · 30th July 2010, 08:52

Originally Posted by Curbs

Yes, a brand doesn´t stay on top once you get there. It stays for years yes, but it needs work all the time to stay on top.

...and Antonio Massa's statement will severely damage Ferrari's reputation as a racing team and a marque?

At any rate, mate--all I said was maybe you should step back for a moment and realize it's just a sport.

**Tifosi** · 30th July 2010, 09:11

Originally Posted by killer

...and Antonio Massa's statement will severely damage Ferrari's reputation as a racing team and a marque?

At any rate, mate--all I said was maybe you should step back for a moment and realize it's just a sport.

To be fair, Fernando said that it wasn't a sport anymore

(only messin'

)

**racingbradley** · 30th July 2010, 13:22

Maybe it's time to put his discussion to bed since we have all got opinions all quite legimate since we are all individuals and have the right to our own opinion!!!!!!!
Before I go I found this which might interest Massa fans:

Ferrari issued Massa team order three times
Felipe Massa received three team orders before he moved over for Fernando Alonso at Hockenheim, it has emerged.Germany's Auto Motor und Sport made the claim, as the controversy about prohibited team orders continues to rage days later in the Hungaroring paddock.
The report said Alonso, who was later heard on the radio to say the situation was "ridiculous", began to complain to the Ferrari pitwall about Massa's pace shortly after his pitstop.
The team replied that it could do nothing, so Spaniard Alonso, who turned 29 on Thursday, dropped back nearly four seconds.
His engineer Andrea Stella told Alonso he was worried about the growing gap, to which Alonso reportedly replied: "No problem, I will close up".
It was this pace relative to leader Massa that moved Ferrari to issue the team order.
But some media have portrayed Alonso as a bully and complainer, suggesting that his reputation has been negatively dented by the affair, which could cost him the support of the spectators.
But he told reporters in Hungary: "Of course it doesn't affect me, not at all. I don't think anything has changed for me or that anything will come back to me.
"Today when I arrived, the airport was full, also the hotel was full of people cheering for us, and these are the fans I saw so far," added Alonso.
He said if the shoe was on the other foot, he would also play the team game.
"If the conditions were the same, with the tyres not working correcting etcetera ... I would surely do the same, the team is the most important thing," Alonso said.
Meanwhile, Massa was fending off claims that - particularly in his native Brazil - his reputation is in tatters.
"People believed in him," said Brazilian journalist Livio Oricchio. "He was considered a winner and thousands of fans saw him as a future champion.
"This image is gone," he added.

**Suzie** · 30th July 2010, 17:26

Thanks RB. I don't know what to believe to be honest, and we will probably never know. I don't think anyone is blameless. Disappointing.

**Silent Bob** · 30th July 2010, 21:31

Maybe nobody is blameless in that team orders were issued... however, only Massa & smedley are to blame for Ferrari being called to the WMSC and being fined for bringing the sport into disrepute.

**Suzie** · 30th July 2010, 21:40

Yeah - not the botched job of implementing the order (if it existed) in the first place.
I know I am biased, I completely admit it, but people seem to forget that it was Rob Smedley's family that kept this forum updated and informed about Felipe last year; not to mention that Rob himself sent a message to us all thanking us. And now a lot of people are crucifying him. I'm sure if they could read some of what is being said, they'd wonder why they bothered.

I don't think being sentimental or emotional is a crime. I thought the human aspect is what we all love about Ferrari.

**racingbradley** · 30th July 2010, 21:57

Originally Posted by Suzie

Yeah - not the botched job of implementing the order (if it existed) in the first place.
I know I am biased, I completely admit it, but people seem to forget that it was Rob Smedley's family that kept this forum updated and informed about Felipe last year; not to mention that Rob himself sent a message to us all thanking us. And now a lot of people are crucifying him. I'm sure if they could read some of what is being said, they'd wonder why they bothered.

People are fickle Suzie. I always thought that people on here were very different from Macca supporters. We all gathered round anddid some lovely things last year when Massa was in danger of losing his life!!!!!
I know folk who change with the tide. In 2008 they loved Hamiliton because he was winning and the same people changed to Brawn & Button because they were winning!Now they are back with Hamiliton.
It really doesn't matter how these drivers get there---whether they push their team mates out of the way in the pit approach, at the beginning of the race or cry for team orders-------what's important is winning. Now I am probably a bit odd because I believe in support through thick & thin, the good times and the bad times but alas that's not the way in 2010. It's support the most likely winner.
I guess I should not be surprised--Kimi went from hero to zero in a year. I guess Felipe understands it better than we do.

**Tifosi** · 30th July 2010, 22:41

Many on this forum understand that Ferrari is history and quote the words and actions of Enzo to back that up.

Ferrari is not a badge, or a BANK, or some stats. It's the people who forge the history by their approach, passion and determination IMO.

You cant have it BOTH ways.

Anyhoo, beancounters and fly-by-nights feel feel to scoff and bitch about a senslessly emotive Tifoso, I couldn't give a ****!

Sweet dreams

**Hornet** · 31st July 2010, 04:12

Originally Posted by Suzie

Yeah - not the botched job of implementing the order (if it existed) in the first place.
I know I am biased, I completely admit it, but people seem to forget that it was Rob Smedley's family that kept this forum updated and informed about Felipe last year; not to mention that Rob himself sent a message to us all thanking us. And now a lot of people are crucifying him. I'm sure if they could read some of what is being said, they'd wonder why they bothered.

I don't think being sentimental or emotional is a crime. I thought the human aspect is what we all love about Ferrari.

I don't know what to think of Rob, though I thought Massa handled the situation pretty well, he did what he had to do without causing a scene.

That said, its not unreasonable to expect these people to be professional at their job, they have to be for the good of the team. It is ok to have emotions and stuff like that, but its their responsibility to keep them in check and not let it get in the way of carrying out their job.

I think thats what we all like about Ferrari too. They keep most of their internal discussion private, they don't go complaining to the press. Anytime they have an issue they talk privately, not in a medium that is available to the public.

Again not accusing anyone here. IMO there's no one to be blamed, Ferrari was always an easy target for FIA and the media anyway. No matter how Felipe moved over, everyone knew the FIA would be on to us, and the media starts foaming in their mouth. We did not do anything wrong, and I hope the team will continue to be professional and more importantly, be kept in one piece.

**mad_ani** · 31st July 2010, 05:31

**vcs316** · 31st July 2010, 06:32

**Tifosi** · 31st July 2010, 08:25

Originally Posted by mad_ani

why post this? as we've ALL agreed, ALL teams operate teams orders where necessary. This is purely an anti-Ferrari joke!

**Julie B** · 31st July 2010, 08:37

Originally Posted by Tifosi

why post this? as we've ALL agreed, ALL teams operate teams orders where necessary. This is purely an anti-Ferrari joke!

Agaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaain

bored now !

**FFFerrari** · 31st July 2010, 08:40

What Felipe managed is that Ferrari CAN'T use team orders now to fix the positions, otherwise they would be murdered by stewards and WMSC since they are now under a magnifying glass thanks to what happened in German GP.

The cost of this was Massa's reputation in Brazil. He was looked up as the driver who had a real chance for WDC, coming back from a serious injury. Now he is seen as a betrayer of his country because in Brazil, the driver comes first, the team second - they believe he chose the new deal and the money it brings over his pride as a racing driver and now positioned similarly as Barrichello was during his years on Ferrari. Interesting to see how this unfolds, we might see fireworks between our drivers.

**Julie B** · 31st July 2010, 08:51

Originally Posted by FFFerrari

What Felipe managed is that Ferrari CAN'T use team orders now to fix the positions, otherwise they would be murdered by stewards and WMSC since they are now under a magnifying glass thanks to what happened in German GP.

The cost of this was Massa's reputation in Brazil. He was looked up as the driver who had a real chance for WDC, coming back from a serious injury. Now he is seen as a betrayer of his country because in Brazil, the driver comes first, the team second - they believe he chose the new deal and the money it brings over his pride as a racing driver and now positioned similarly as Barrichello was during his years on Ferrari. Interesting to see how this unfolds, we might see fireworks between our drivers.

Think that's a bit strong !