Red Bull Team Orders

[Tech_Skill]

So who thinks Red Bull ordered Vettel to hold up Alonso and co, which lead to Vettel getting the penalty and ruining his race?

[Julie B]

[Greig]

No, Vettel admitted he was sleeping and had no radio to tell him what to do LOL

[ferrari4life]

if they told vettle to slow down the pack it would be recorded on radio conversation and they would be pnalized for that. no way they could have dreamed up that situation before hand to have a code word ready.

[mad_ani]

Wasnt a team order....as Vettel said in PC

leader usually bottles up the field...but Mark stuck up...but Vettel had radio problems and thought SC was going in the next lap...so he was slow...

Not a team order IMO

[Hornet]

For a moment I thought he was angry at his team with is gesture in the pits, hinting that they may have told him to do so... but he was probably just angry in general. Who knows

Edit: my bad. Guess that clears things up

[ferrari4life]

Wasnt a team order....as Vettel said in PC

leader usually bottles up the field...but Mark stuck up...but Vettel had radio problems and thought SC was going in the next lap...so he was slow...

Not a team order IMO

i belive the car has a display that shows when safety car is coming in

[Tech_Skill]

I ask because its whats being debated elsewhere, just wanted to see what everyone else thought, there are accusations flying around everywhere.

[mad_ani]

i belive the car has a display that shows when safety car is coming in

Mark pulled away from him while Vettel was slow...Mark put him 10 car lengths behind...he got the penalty...did fast laps and ended up on a podium...but no one can exactly measure 10 car lengths precisely....

[MASSUM THE GREATEST]

Not me.

[Brakefade]

It was pretty funny watching Vettel complain to Whiting, and then Alonso just smiling and walking away.

[Haris]

No, Vettel admitted he was sleeping and had no radio to tell him what to do LOL

Vettel said he lost radio somewhere during the first stint. How did he manage to pit just in time, we clearly saw he almost passed the pit entry and then braked heavily to come in? We even heard later him asking his engineer why was he handed a penalty.

Strange for all that to happen if he really lost his radio during the first stint, as he said...

[Tech_Skill]

Vettel said he lost radio somewhere during the first stint. How did he manage to pit just in time, we clearly saw he almost passed the pit entry and then braked heavily to come in? We even heard later him asking his engineer why was he handed a penalty.

Strange for all that to happen if he really lost his radio during the first stint, as he said...

I think Horner just admitted his radio was working at the time of pit, but that the radio was on and off intermittantly, the thing here is that the radio transmission are all live, so i dont see how red bull could give an order or coded order without the tv picking it up.

[slither]

Team order or not, he got what he deserved 'a drive through'. Nice to see we have pace even on a track that could be called 'built for RBRs'. If we keep this pace we will be monsters at Monza and hopefully at Spa.

It was also good to see Ham's DNF and Button's suffer.

[Alonsomaniac]

Could also be that Vettel was trying to be clever but instead shot his own foot.
Maybe he thought he could help Webber by letting him get away and then later on after the stop coming back between himself and Alonso.
That would have given Vettel the win and Red Bull a 1-2, and Vettel the hero in his team.

[Tifosi]

Could also be that Vettel was trying to be clever but instead shot his own foot.
Maybe he thought he could help Webber by letting him get away and then later on after the stop coming back between himself and Alonso.
That would have given Vettel the win and Red Bull a 1-2, and Vettel the hero in his team.

What's so funny about this is that they want us to believe that Seb caused his own issue with no input from the team - yet his attitude and body language screams summat completely different!

[FFFerrari]

What's so funny about this is that they want us to believe that Seb caused his own issue with no input from the team - yet his attitude and body language screams summat completely different!

It was his own fault, he was sleeping in the cockpit. He is just making excuses about it.

[Tifosi]

It was his own fault, he was sleeping in the cockpit. He is just making excuses about it.

Why was he so angry and sulky then? Surely he knows when he's ballsed up?

[nikhil4356]

According to Joe Saward

Sebastian Vettel drove away at the front, building up a lead of 11.7secs before a Safety Car intervened, as a result of debris on the track. As all the major runners pitted, Webber and his engineers decided to stay out on the soft tyres. This gave him clear road and he immediately began to pull away, while Vettel fell foul of the rules because he dropped too far behind the Safety Car. He explained later that his radio was not working but the stewards presumably felt that the manoeuvre was designed to give Webber an advantage, the plan presumably being to give the Australian space to make up ground and get ahead of Alonso when he finally stopped. This is probably the explanation for the drive-through penalty, which dropped him behind Alonso.

Here is the link

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/...ns-in-hungary/

[Greig]

What's so funny about this is that they want us to believe that Seb caused his own issue with no input from the team - yet his attitude and body language screams summat completely different!

Red Bull had no need to even try and hold Alonso back, Vettel just drove away from him when he realised the SC came in, could see it being a order if he did hang back and block Alonso but he never He was telling the FIA guy after the race he had lost his radio and he had not done it intentionally, I think he was upset with himself and rightly so

[RED]

It looked to me Christian Horner was lying through his teeth about the radio but it's just me.

[Tifosi]

Red Bull had no need to even try and hold Alonso back, Vettel just drove away from him when he realised the SC came in, could see it being a order if he did hang back and block Alonso but he never He was telling the FIA guy after the race he had lost his radio and he had not done it intentionally, I think he was upset with himself and rightly so

he should concentrate on being angry at himself then heheh . Looks like he had some issues outside of that to me tbh.

[nikhil4356]

Had there been no team orders vettel would never have left such a big gap between him and webber even for the argument of warming up tyres. He would have tug to webbers rear constantly cause the last thing he would want is being beaten by his team mate. Cause Vettel started to up his pace in order to built a gap between him and Alonso once steward intervened.Till then he never made an attempt to close gap to Webber assuming he mistimed safety car exit. RedBull gambeled for Webber getting ahead of Alonso at the expense of Vettle which they will regret after they lose the WDC championship to Alonso cause their drivers are take points of each other which will in turn benefit Alonso.

[Tifosi]

Had there been no team orders vettel would never have left such a big gap between him and webber even for the argument of warming up tyres. He would have tug to webbers rear constantly cause the last thing he would want is being beaten by his team mate. RedBull gambeled for Webber getting ahead of Alonso at the expense of Vettle which they will regret after they lose the WDC championship to Alonso cause their drivers are take points of each other which will in turn benefit Alonso.

i'm with you on that one mate. Vettel was not acting like a man who messed up by dropping too far back purely of his own accord. Also, as you say, why would he do it to such extreme unless under order to do it to help out Webber?

Lovely little conspiracy theory.

Vettel gives the game away really.

[Hooligan]

Arogance lead to ignorance

[Rob]

To me that did look rather dodgy. Why was he so upset, so upset with Webber aswell, hardly cogratulated him. Stormed off as soon as he got out of car. Before that as he parked nearly took out the #3 sign (fair to him, hard to see front of nose). Who was Helmut on phone to straight after safety car came in and Webber half way down straight??? As i said in another thread, seems like FIA are turning blind eye to some of RBR's goings on. Thats just what i feel and think, i know it paranoia, but...... its F1.

another thing, how come we havent heard the radio between Vettel and pits to confirm that he was having problems with radio??? if it was us, we would of heard (FIA would of released ) all the chat asking if can hear pits ok and if pits can hear driver ok. Or doing radio checks.

Why doesnt Horner just come out saying.."yeah we asked Seb to slow little, as having ................ (fill in blank with an made up issue, tyres, brakes over heating, engine over heating as from running close to webber etc etc )

[Greig]

Horner was speaking to Vettel again, which suggests his radio to his engineer was down as he said, to be a good theory then there has to be some sort of evidence, the fact Vettel just drove away from Alonso at the restart kind of suggests he was not ordered to hold Alonso back at all, Webber had to make up 20 seconds, and Vettel held up Alonso for about 1 of those and nothing more He was angry about the penalty during the race and right after, we heard him asking the FIA guy why he got it as they went to the podium, once he sat and watched it I think he realised and was soon admitting his mistake, seemed honest enough to me Still he did have a great strop over it

[Rob]

Horner was speaking to Vettel again, which suggests his radio to his engineer was down as he said, to be a good theory then there has to be some sort of evidence, the fact Vettel just drove away from Alonso at the restart kind of suggests he was not ordered to hold Alonso back at all, Webber had to make up 20 seconds, and Vettel held up Alonso for about 1 of those and nothing more He was angry about the penalty during the race and right after, we heard him asking the FIA guy why he got it as they went to the podium, once he sat and watched it I think he realised and was soon admitting his mistake, seemed honest enough to me Still he did have a great strop over it

true, my mind flys off with all ideas

But as you say mate, great great strop. We were laughing over that 1.

[goferrarigo]

Horner was speaking to Vettel again, which suggests his radio to his engineer was down as he said, to be a good theory then there has to be some sort of evidence, the fact Vettel just drove away from Alonso at the restart kind of suggests he was not ordered to hold Alonso back at all, Webber had to make up 20 seconds, and Vettel held up Alonso for about 1 of those and nothing more He was angry about the penalty during the race and right after, we heard him asking the FIA guy why he got it as they went to the podium, once he sat and watched it I think he realised and was soon admitting his mistake, seemed honest enough to me Still he did have a great strop over it

+1

[nikhil4356]

Horner was speaking to Vettel again, which suggests his radio to his engineer was down as he said, to be a good theory then there has to be some sort of evidence, the fact Vettel just drove away from Alonso at the restart kind of suggests he was not ordered to hold Alonso back at all, Webber had to make up 20 seconds, and Vettel held up Alonso for about 1 of those and nothing more He was angry about the penalty during the race and right after, we heard him asking the FIA guy why he got it as they went to the podium, once he sat and watched it I think he realised and was soon admitting his mistake, seemed honest enough to me Still he did have a great strop over it

Vettel slowed Alonso enough to give webber 2sec (may be less or more)lead at the restart of the race. If one looks at the replays Vettel significantly slowed when saftey car was about to exit. Suppose if vettel botched up the start, he wasn't trying hard to reduce the gap to webber for the first 4 to 5 laps. In normal racing conditions after losing 2 sec to webber he would have made every attempt to reduce that gap, which indicates he knew webbers strategy and was part of it. If vettel would have kept gap under 4 sec to webber till his drive through who knows he would have emerged ahead of Alonso after drive through penalty; smilar to last year where webber won after drive through. Its just my thought cause i strongly feel that even a debutant in f1 will be at the back of leading car waiting for the oppurtunity unless specifically instructed by the team.