Ferrari summoned to WMSC 'team orders' hearing 4 days before Italian GP!

[steelstallions]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/m...l-2042338.html

Ferrari are to go before the World Motor Sport Council just four days prior to their home grand prix next month as they look to avoid further punishment over the recent "team orders" furore.

Motorsport's world governing body, the FIA, has confirmed Ferrari will face a disciplinary hearing in Paris on 8 September, with the Italian Grand Prix the following Sunday. However, due to an obvious conflict of interest, FIA president and former Ferrari team principal Jean Todt will not stand as chair, the position falling to Nick Craw, the FIA deputy president for sport.

The team was fined $100,000 (£65,000) by the stewards at the German Grand Prix last month, who declared Ferrari in breach of article 39.1 of the FIA 2010 sporting regulations that states "team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited". They were also charged with a breach of article 151c, relating to "any fraudulent conduct, or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motorsport generally". The stewards were forced to investigate after Felipe Massa slowed on lap 49 at Hockenheim to allow team-mate Fernando Alonso to pass him.

If the new tests on our front wing slow us down and this hearing imposes any points deduction, then any hope of this season being a winner will be severely hampered.
Why four days before our GP? Is this to give the Tifosi a downer on our GP?

[996 GT1 Lover]

I think heads will roll if any point deductions are given.

[LAROSA SpA]

Wouldn't want to be a McLaren fan at Monza

[mad_ani]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/m...l-2042338.html



If the new tests on our front wing slow us down and this hearing imposes any points deduction, then any hope of this season being a winner will be severely hampered.
Why four days before our GP? Is this to give the Tifosi a downer on our GP?

They had already decided to meet on Sept 10...and the Ferrari "team order" incident happened....so its been shifted to Sept 8 and it was gonna be held in Italy...so makes it convenient for all parties involved...
Any idea on the quantum of punishment??? If there is a points deduction, would it be for the team or the team and drivers...Previous instances have shown drivers have gotten immunity and the team is usually punished???

WORLD COUNCIL & PRIZE-GIVING

An Extraordinary Meeting of the World Motor Sport Council will take place on Friday 10 September 2010 in Como, Italy.

The FIA prize-giving ceremony will be held in Monaco during the annual week of FIA meetings. The FIA President once again confirmed that the opportunity to host the event is open to all the FIA’s membership throughout the world.

[Fiondella]

Yawn! nothing will happen. Instruction from hearing: Slap wrist, try and be more subtle when executing team orders. i.e. pull-in to pits, low fuel, try and fool the hoi polloi etc etc

[dfunk257]

I think if the FIA dont do anything the other teams will kick up a big stink, thats why i wreckon Ferrari Constructors points will be deducted from the Hockenheim result, but NOT the drivers. So i think we can definately 4get about the Constructors Championship if this is what happens. But lets c, u just never know

[Fiondella]

Doesn't even warrant a WMSC meeting and any further penalty would be absolutelty riduculous and set an unworkable precedent

[mad_ani]

“I am much quicker than Felipe” – how Alonso urged Ferrari to use team orders

New video of the German Grand Prix published by FOM reveals how Fernando Alonso urged Ferrari to order Felipe Massa to let him pass.

Alonso said to the team “I am much quicker than Felipe” and was told “we got your message”.

Because of the editing of the video it’s not clear how much time elapsed between that and the infamous coded instruction to Massa ordering him to let Alonso pass.

When Alonso tried to overtake Massa on lap 21 Rob Smedley told his driver, “he’s pretty close, he’s going to go, you’re going to have to defend.”

Massa was later advised, “you need to pick up the pace because Alonso is faster.” After the race Massa sounded thoroughly unimpressed when he told them, “so, what I can say? Congratulations to the team.”

Ferrari were handed a $100,000 fine for using “team orders that interfere with a race result” and “bringing the sport into disrepute”. The World Motor Sport Council will decide next month whether they will face further penalties.

This is not the first time material published by FOM online has shed new light on the discussions between teams and drivers during a race. After the Turkish Grand Prix FOM published a new portion of McLaren’s team radio showing Lewis Hamilton was advised Jenson Button would not overtake him, shortly before Button did.

[FFFerrari]

I can see three outcomes for the meeting:

1) Nothing happens or we get a slap on the wrist (in addition to the fine already gotten after the GP)
2) They deduct the earned WCC points from the German GP
3) They DQ Fernando from the German GP results because it seems with that knowledge we know have that he gave the signal for the team to act as they did

[Ferrari_Fanatic]

“I am much quicker than Felipe” – how Alonso urged Ferrari to use team orders

i don't think they can do much with the above added into the mix....(mad_ani) coment seems they both were racing FA but alonso was faster lol

[Tiz]

They won't have a lot of time, it's the same day as MS is summoned to appear for his misdemeanour.!

[Hermann]

Just give it a bit more time and they will find enough to blame it all on Fernando. Nothing new here

[ferrari4life]

I would like to see Ferrari withdraw from the rest of the season if that were to happen

[Paulpg87]

Wouldn't want to be a McLaren fan at Monza

last year, after i entered the gp without paying (and almost killing my self climbing some walls at Ascari), i saw a group of tifosi, in the "jungle" around the track, that were kicking a fan of hamilton.. off course i did nothing to stop them.. i can't even call the police cause i was without ticket like 50% of the people (italians) there. :)

[Hornet]

Can the WMSC take actions that directly interferes with a championship like disqualifying a result?

[FFFerrari]

Yes. M.Schumacher was disqualified in 97 from the whole WDC after the incident in Jerez. They can dish out about any punishment they see fit and certainly anything that effects WDC and WCC.

[mandzipop]

Ferrari have made it quite clear that although it was not an instruction it was a coded hint and have said everyone does it. So that might go in their favour as others have said that it happens up and down the pitlane. The biggest mistake was making it look obvious. But as it is now known to the world that it happens quite a lot, then the main punishment will be bringing the sport into disrepute for being blindingly obvious. It was a call that was pretty obviously going to happen. So I think the result will be an increase in the fine, and the rules to be changed. Apparently it is not the first time that Massa has been told that, but this was the first occasion that he conceded the position. That would be sufficient to defend the team orders issue. However, the way Ferrari handled it afterwards was pretty poor. That is why I think that there will be an increase in the fine and not much else. The FIA are going to be forced into making the rules clearer and from what the response is from the rest of the teams they do want more clarity on the issue. If FOTA go along with this then the WMSC are going to look a bit stupid if they dock points.

[steelstallions]

last year, after i entered the gp without paying (and almost killing my self climbing some walls at Ascari), i saw a group of tifosi, in the "jungle" around the track, that were kicking a fan of hamilton.. off course i did nothing to stop them.. i can't even call the police cause i was without ticket like 50% of the people (italians) there. :)

There were about 5 of them kicking the fan, when asked if I would do anything, I said five were enough...............gets his coat and leaves the forum

[Katu]

“I am much quicker than Felipe” – how Alonso urged Ferrari to use team orders

heared drivers said that before many times. had he said after that - 'move over the mass' or 'do something', well that would have been urging

[2010hazzah]

“I am much quicker than Felipe” – how Alonso urged Ferrari to use team orders

I am no expert in the English language but come-on, I don't see any urging in this statement. He's just stating a fact. If they remove points from him then WMSC is a circus full of clowns IMO.

[mad_ani]

SD's reaction after the race...he does look calm and relaxed and more happy to celebrate the 1-2 finish

AFAIK, Ferrari management has been called to the hearing...and not the drivers..any news on this??

Would Massa be called in to explain why he slowed down...something he has refused to answer at the PC of German Gp...

IMO, Ferrari are a far greater than to win races by implementing team orders..Yes, it has been implemented in the past and our drivers have won the WDC's becoz if it...but as a team with so much passion to win and been in F1 for so long...should we really need team orders?? do we fear that our drivers with close to 2 decade of experience between them take out each other??? Enzo cared so much about racing and competing....and as a fan of F1 and Ferrari, why not let events happen naturally...I dont want to see Ferrari being dragged to WMSC in any situation...

[Greig]

We have had team orders even with Enzo running the team, yes we are greater than that, go watch Imola 82....

[mad_ani]

We have had team orders even with Enzo running the team, yes we are greater than that, go watch Imola 82....

Yes, that incident was attributed as causing the death of Giles by pushing him harder...

Well, we can do without it (team orders), and Ferrari are bigger than satisfying just a few drivers and sponsors. Ferrari has proved many times that it can win the WCC without winning the WDC..

[Greig]

Ah so you attach the team order to a sponsor, surprising oh wait no not really.....you mean like 1999 when MS was moving over for Eddie, to help him win the WDC, why did Massa move for Kimi in Brazil, we had won the WCC no need for team orders was there we are greater than that right.......

[mad_ani]

Why not go for the WDC, once we have the WCC...

and in both cases, we had a shot at the WDC and they were the last or the penultimate races of the season...

[Greig]

Why not go for the WDC, once we have the WCC...

and in both cases, we had a shot at the WDC and they were the last or the penultimate races of the season...

Makes no difference in the slightest to what you are claiming.....

[aroutis]

Nothing at all is going to happen, or if it does it'll probably get the fine from 100,000 to a mil like last time and the rules will be revised.

As for the video, big deal, so Fernando says he's quicker and Ferrari acknowledges . And?

There's nothing there to even indicate that there is manipulation of the result , only thing there is is the driver that says he's faster; not the first time and for sure not the last.

[aroutis]

mad_ani, the teams are entitled to the team orders, it's very simple really; they put the money and if they need to ask their drivers for certain things , they should be entitled to. As long as they don't ask them to crash into other drivers or between them of course that is, if they want to -for example- keep positions or change places between them, they should be allowed to do that.

It's how it's been since the beginning of time, and surely that won't change now.

Heck, in the old days the #1 driver would take #2's car should his car fail..

[Anni]

In my opinion the anti-teamorder rule should be disposed, but not because team-orders are a good thing, but because what´s the use of a rule everyone is braking. As long as they can´t find a way to actually fight teamorders the rule doesn´t make sence at all and the team could make it obvious so at least we would know when they twit us!

If it was possible I would ban teamorders completely out of F1. In my opinion it´s like doping in other sports. It´s something that alters the results. No driver should become worldchampion with points that aren´t his points at all. I know there is no way to prevent teamorders, they will be always there, I just wish they weren´t.

[REDARMYSOJA]

Yes, that incident was attributed as causing the death of Giles by pushing him harder...

Which is total BS. Gilles was driving that day like he always drove, flat out. His death was caused by Jochen Mass dragging around the track and the car not being built safely, as evidenced by Pironi also nearly getting killed in it.