Will Webber deserve it?

[epiclyaddicted]

Yes he does because he is Australian simple

Oh come on mate! Nothing against Mark, but that's like saying Richard Hammond is the tallest Top Gear presenter of the three because he is from Birmingham!

Surely you can come up with a better reason than that?

[Tifoso]

No, because it's Alonso who is winning the WDC.

[TIFOSI_FERRARI]

Yes, Webber will deserve his 2nd place in the drivers' championship

[elekvault]

Whoever has most points, deserves the WDC. That doesn't mean he is the best driver, but that he AND his team have made the best job to achieve that. Let's not forget is not the driver alone who wins a WDC...

[Paulpg87]

no and not even Vettel, two medriocre drivers in a car that is like 700 faster than others.. if hamilton or alonso were in that car they've already won the wcc.

[aroutis]

He deserve it more than Button, that's for sure. I hope Fernando win it, for many reason but mainly because it will show that you don't need the best car when you have the right people, not only the driver but the team.

+1

If Button deserved the WDC ,then so does Webber. If not more, given the fact he clearly is not the favorite in his team but rather the underdog.

[aroutis]

Whoever has most points, deserves the WDC. That doesn't mean he is the best driver, but that he AND his team have made the best job to achieve that. Let's not forget is not the driver alone who wins a WDC...

People more and more in our days tend to forget that.

[AvantiFer]

Whoever has most points, deserves the WDC. That doesn't mean he is the best driver, but that he AND his team have made the best job to achieve that. Let's not forget is not the driver alone who wins a WDC...

I mostly agree, but imagine this extreme example:

There's a driver that gets 17/17 pole positions with the second best car and that gets perfect race in 17/17 races, but it happens that in the last lap on every of these 17 GP, a backmarker crashes in front of him and he does not finish in any race.

Very unlikely to happen, yes, but given the example, would the WDC winner (which got points but did a normal season and collected wins, 2nd positions, some 4ths...) deserve the title more than this one just because he didn't have so much bad luck?

[Tifosi]

I mostly agree, but imagine this extreme example:

There's a driver that gets 17/17 pole positions with the second best car and that gets perfect race in 17/17 races, but it happens that in the last lap on every of these 17 GP, a backmarker crashes in front of him and he does not finish in any race.

Very unlikely to happen, yes, but given the example, would the WDC winner (which got points but did a normal season and collected wins, 2nd positions, some 4ths...) deserve the title more than this one just because he didn't have so much bad luck?

Yes, of course.

If it's ok for Alonso to win 2 WDC's with uninspiring races but majestic consistancy, Schumacher to wipe the floor with the competition, Hill & Villeneuve to win in the best car, Kimi to not get 2005 when he deserved it but get it in 2007 when perhaps he didn't, Lewis to reverse into his the year after he threw it away, Button to win it with the best car in the first half of the season but fight to scrape through in the end, Schumacher to punt Hill off, Senna to punt Prost off....... need I go on?

[AvantiFer]

Yes, of course.

If it's ok for Alonso to win 2 WDC's with uninspiring races but majestic consistancy, Schumacher to wipe the floor with the competition, Hill & Villeneuve to win in the best car, Kimi to not get 2005 when he deserved it but get it in 2007 when perhaps he didn't, Lewis to reverse into his the year after he threw it away, Button to win it with the best car in the first half of the season but fight to scrape through in the end, Schumacher to punt Hill off, Senna to punt Prost off....... need I go on?

I wasn't talking about concistency, I was talking about luck.

[TIFOSI_FERRARI]

Mark Webber, Red Bull
Career statistics: 156 race starts; six wins; 20 podiums; six pole positions; six fastest laps; and 407.5 points.
Season statistics: Two DNFs; four wins; 10 podiums; five pole positions; three fastest laps; and 238 points.

but

Fernando Alonso, Ferrari
Career statistics: 156 race starts; two drivers’ titles; 26 wins; 63 podiums; 20 pole positions; 18 fastest laps; and 823 points.
Season statistics: Two DNFs; five wins; 10 podiums; two pole positions; five fastest laps; and 246 points.

the nando deserve it more than any one else.

[Suzie]

I don't want Webber to win it obviously, but I'd say he'd be deserving enough given his performances in Monaco and Hungary especially.

[Aussie]

Oh come on mate! Nothing against Mark, but that's like saying Richard Hammond is the tallest Top Gear presenter of the three because he is from Birmingham!

Surely you can come up with a better reason than that?

Its been 21 years since a australian won WDC it will be a good thing for australian motosport

[Tifoso]

Its been 21 years since a australian won WDC it will be a good thing for australian motosport

But a bad thing for Ferrari, so

GO ALONSO

[Poltergeistes]

Yeah i gotta say IF webber wins it (hopefully alonso will) he will definetly deserve, because let's not forget, the entire time the team was backing vettel and not him, and redbull can cry all they want about team orders at ferrari, at least they were decent enough to do it up front, and not just giving a better car to one of the drivers, felipe is pretty open too just like webber, yet felipe didn't say what webber said, that if he had known that redbull would give that wing to vettel he wouldn't have signed, that pretty much paints the picture.

I think that if felipe had been fighting for the championship all season long, i doubt that ferrari would be giving team orders, and most of all i doubt that ferrari would be upgrading only alonso's car. pretty much the same thing that happened at brawn with rubens and button in the spanish GP...

[REDARMYSOJA]

Whoever has most points, deserves the WDC. That doesn't mean he is the best driver, but that he AND his team have made the best job to achieve that. Let's not forget is not the driver alone who wins a WDC...

^ +1

[Tifosi]

I wasn't talking about concistency, I was talking about luck.

All WDC's have some luck during a season. Every single one of them. It's impossible to avoid. It can't affect whether or not they deserve the title or not in the way that you make out because it's one element amongst many. You could argue that Massa deserved the 2008 title by citing lack of luck or that Hami had too much luck but at the end of the day it was a mixture of elements and it always will be.

[AvantiFer]

All WDC's have some luck during a season. Every single one of them. It's impossible to avoid. It can't affect whether or not they deserve the title or not in the way that you make out because it's one element amongst many. You could argue that Massa deserved the 2008 title by citing lack of luck or that Hami had too much luck but at the end of the day it was a mixture of elements and it always will be.

So given my example you would say the winner deserved it?

[Tifosi]

So given my example you would say the winner deserved it?

I understand your point but in reality, luck (or its counterpart) is only ever one element of what makes a GP season. As you admit, the likelihood of that much bad luck determining the outcome of a season is highly unlikely. I would suggest impossible.

My point was that ultimately, the one with the most points wins, and in your scenario - you suggest that a team/driver combination could lose the championship through no fault of their own, which I cant ever remember happening really because the mix of elements will always be there.

The only time I would find myself thinking along those lines is where the bureaucracy of the sport (i.e. a non racing incident) was definable as the only difference between 2 drivers, and that's not going to happen either* so I dont think you could ever say that a WDC was non deserving because the car, the reliability, the luck and the driver all go to make the difference - no matter how small - over 19 or so races.

Thats the nature of the sport.

* not including when a team gets found guilty of cheating yet their drivers are still allowed to win a WDC in the year that the team admitted using another team's data. That was close to being the exception to the rule

P.S. I still maintain that Lewis reversed into his though heheh

[GamD]

Yeah i gotta say IF webber wins it (hopefully alonso will) he will definetly deserve, because let's not forget, the entire time the team was backing vettel and not him, and redbull can cry all they want about team orders at ferrari, at least they were decent enough to do it up front, and not just giving a better car to one of the drivers, felipe is pretty open too just like webber, yet felipe didn't say what webber said, that if he had known that redbull would give that wing to vettel he wouldn't have signed, that pretty much paints the picture.

I think that if felipe had been fighting for the championship all season long, i doubt that ferrari would be giving team orders, and most of all i doubt that ferrari would be upgrading only alonso's car. pretty much the same thing that happened at brawn with rubens and button in the spanish GP...

Aww poor Webber, all that idiot does is moan... The only reason he is 2nd in the WDC is because of his OWN! Faults, not the teams
The so called “Wing gate" scandal as everybody tries to portray it, did not put Webber to a disadvantage, he won maximum points the race involved.
Webber knows he has lost the WDC but will not blame him self but rather his team and Vettel.
What does Webber want? There is only 1 (one) time he was in an “Unfair “situation and that was with the wing, but it did not make him lose or crash or anything but rather win the race.
So who cares if the team Favours Vettel, Ferrari favours Alonso, Mc Idiots favour Hamilton, Merc favour Schumi, Renault favour Kubica…
The list goes on; none of those teams have a whining moaning baby like Webber.

As a team Ferrari have said it straight up on that I agree with you, but I think you are blinded the fact that Webber deserves it.
He is a poor sportsman and even a worse driver, kinda crazy to think he deserves anything.

Ferrari will win!

[ferrari4life]

after just watching quali.. thats an absolute hells no.. hope vettel takes it because he has been driving like a bat out of hell.

[Agron]

The so called “Wing gate" scandal as everybody tries to portray it, did not put Webber to a disadvantage, he won maximum points the race involved.

IMO he won even after being disadvantaged, just because you overcame the odds doesn't mean you had an easy time doing it.
He is 34 yo, I doubt he is as childish as some say to be whining just because the team prefer Vettel to win; in a sport like F1 where in a single race 80% or so of the performance is car related (in a championship, in particular in a close championship, the driver is 50-50% IMO), a team can really decide who ends the race in front of his teammate, and that's the kind of thing Webber is probably upset about.

[Carlos]

Webber will deserve it if he has more points than Fernando, which I hope with all my might that he doesn't.
People are such hypocrits when it comes to team orders. Every one would see it as natural if Vettel let Webber through if he was running first, so why was what Ferrari did any different? Because it was done earlier? So now things are either right or wrong according to their timing? I don't think so.
Nobody who says that Fernando wouldn't deserve it if he wins it by less than 7 points has any right to say so.
Furthermore the FIA ruled on it and that's that.

[GamD]

IMO he won even after being disadvantaged, just because you overcame the odds doesn't mean you had an easy time doing it.
He is 34 yo, I doubt he is as childish as some say to be whining just because the team prefer Vettel to win; in a sport like F1 where in a single race 80% or so of the performance is car related (in a championship, in particular in a close championship, the driver is 50-50% IMO), a team can really decide who ends the race in front of his teammate, and that's the kind of thing Webber is probably upset about.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/07/1...wing-decision/

"Mark Webber revealed he would not have signed for Red Bull in 2011 if he had thought he would be forced to give up new components for his team mate".

What is he really on about then? Does he want Red Bull to favour him and give him the new components of his team mate?
If that would happen he would look like a real muppet! I mean hypocrite.

He can’t moan about a certain treatment or unfairness, but if it was in his favour would he still be complaining or not signed for 2011?

He seems to want to be the favoured one, but if he is not, then he would rather not stay, sound a little bit childish to me.
I can’t see how else Red bull can give Webber more support, unless they put Vettel to a serious and obvious disadvantage.
Webber has the tools, if he is as good as everybody recons he is, our Alonso would not be in front with points.
Red Bull has been by far the better car, but Webber has not been the better driver out of the top 4.

[Mitra]

after just watching quali.. thats an absolute hells no.. hope vettel takes it because he has been driving like a bat out of hell.

if fernando cant take it, then Hell yeah

[Agron]

You know it wasn't like that, there were two front wings, and after Vettel wasted his they gave him Webber's.
We know very little about what goes on behind scenes in a team, but with a car composed of thousands of pieces that must work to perfection, and where laptime differences between cars are measured in tenths, hundredths or even thousandths (equalling cm over 5km tracks), if they really want one driver to win over the other, as has been pretty obvious all season, they have infinite chances to give a car advantage to one over the other. And if not a better strategy. And if not a little bit of mobbing.
Not saying that has happened at RBR, but if a driver says so publicly and knowing that it ruins his relationship with one of the best teams, which in Webber's case may be his only chance at driving for a top team, I would say there's at least some food for thought.

[NJB13]

The WDC is based on the complete year, not just one race. Luck tends to happen, but, it always will, and, I tend to agree with Fernando, that, over a year, you will have a mix, some good and some bad.

In short Fernando's going to win

But if Mark did win, he'd have the most points and would deserve it.

[Ferrari_gal]

maybe this is a biased opinion since I love Ferrari..but Alonso being let through by Massa was just Ferraris way of ensuring that there was no accidents between the 2 cars..Alonso was all over the back of Massa and has clearly proven himself faster for most of the season.

Webber has not even come close to Vettel. And I dont buy that story about Vettel has something special in his car compared to Webber. Knowing webber he would be crying foul till the cows come home on that if it was true. Vettel had a damaged car and that was the only time that Webber was faster than him

To the first part, I don't agree....Massa should have kept his place. I like what Red Bull are doing, letting their guys fight it out to the end.... Just hope they do not change that today.
To the second part, I agree 100% ... Vettel had the worst car this season , if he had a car like Mr. Webber he would be the champion already !!!!
Mark is a crybaby, like some others in F1 .

[flam147]

Whoever has most points, deserves the WDC. That doesn't mean he is the best driver, but that he AND his team have made the best job to achieve that. Let's not forget is not the driver alone who wins a WDC...

probably Mccheaters thinking behind keeping all drivers tropheys ,the drivers have to have replicas made