Pirelli tyre tests at Abu Dhabi

[Hornet]

Because I found it weird that top drivers in a top category couldn't adapt to a different tyre for an entire year, I would have understood that they had hard first races, but they didn't improve much during the year, so I though MS -> too old, Massa -> slow compared to Alonso. It surprises me that it could actually be them failing to adapt to a different tyre rather than just being slow compared to their team-mates.

But it is nice for us, if this is true we'll have much bigger possibilities of winning both championships next year and it will also be nice to watch a real fight between our drivers

Just my opinion, but I think we're reading too much into it

Yes I wish it was true, both our drivers came up on top faster than everyone else, but I doubt its a true picture of what we will see next year. Even if they are pushing quite hard just to see how fast they can go, its going to change a lot come next year where everyone will have a new car. A driver who finds it comfortable now may find it difficult on the new car, likewise drivers like Rosberg who complained about it may very well like it next year on their new car.

Not to say Ferrari won't come up on top next year, but nothing is determined yet.

[Ferrari Man]

It snice to see us at the top of both sessions but there is alot of work and designing to be done between now and next March so anything can happen or change.. Roll on next year tho.. We are gunning for Red Bull blood..

[Poltergeistes]

The problem Massa had with the Bridgestone tyres this season was mainly on the hard compund as they didnt heat up fast enough to his liking, however he was generally competitive on the soft and the medium compunds as they tend to heat up faster. Pirelli bought their soft and medium compounds for this testing so it is natural that Massa did not face any specific problems with it......so we need to watch out for how the hard compounds behave to see if these tyres really suit Massa's driving. I was also wondering since we have only tested 2 compounds, how shall we know the behavior of the harder compound as there is a probability that it too has the same problem aka Generating enough heat to reach the optimum operating temperature

Well I'm guessing that the reason why he was happy about it must be that they somehow compared the soft and medium from pirelli with also the soft and medium from bridgestone, and found that "something different" and that's why felipe is feeling positive. that if they found these compounds better, than the harder will follow the same line.

They were also talking about pirelli's geometry, it also seems to be another thing felipe and rob were happy about, at least worked good on the F10, so luckly they will be able to built a better car for next season, cause even if they change the compounds, this geometry is likely to be the same as they used this tests.

PS the geometry im speaking of is not the lenght like it changed from 2009 to 2010, this is just like the way the tyre is built, i wish i could explain better, but im no expert, im sure somebody else here is though, would be nice if they can explain it better.

[DanielM]

The problem Massa had with the Bridgestone tyres this season was mainly on the hard compund as they didnt heat up fast enough to his liking, however he was generally competitive on the soft and the medium compunds as they tend to heat up faster. Pirelli bought their soft and medium compounds for this testing so it is natural that Massa did not face any specific problems with it......so we need to watch out for how the hard compounds behave to see if these tyres really suit Massa's driving. I was also wondering since we have only tested 2 compounds, how shall we know the behavior of the harder compound as there is a probability that it too has the same problem aka Generating enough heat to reach the optimum operating temperature

Thats not really true. Massa said this in the first part of the year and said he had no problem with the softs, of course until Alonso started destroying him on that compound as well, then apparently even the softs were too hard for him. From my experience, drivers are the absolute last people you should listen to when it comes to justifying their poor performances. They are all delusional. Only a few like Eddie Irvine put their hand up and said Michael is just too fast. Heikki was another one who blamed tyres when Hamilton destroyed him. Funny how he never had tyre problems before and after he drove for Mclaren. Even in the gp2 lotus.

[Fiondella]

Thats not really true. Massa said this in the first part of the year and said he had no problem with the softs, of course until Alonso started destroying him on that compound as well, then apparently even the softs were too hard for him. From my experience, drivers are the absolute last people you should listen to when it comes to justifying their poor performances. They are all delusional. Only a few like Eddie Irvine put their hand up and said Michael is just too fast. Heikki was another one who blamed tyres when Hamilton destroyed him. Funny how he never had tyre problems before and after he drove for Mclaren. Even in the gp2 lotus.

Well his latest lap times seem to suggest otherwise and are comparable to Nando's with the Pirellis when you use Vettel as a yardstick even factoring in a changing track.

1. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m40.170s 94
2. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 1m40.500s 77

1. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m40.529s 105
2. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 1m40.825s 66

[DanielM]

You cant compare different testing days.

[Fiondella]

You cant compare different testing days.

You can if you use a yardstick i.e. Vettel

[Agron]

We know nothing about what they were testing, the state of the track, etc. The only think we know more or less for sure is that Ferrari wasn't the worst with those tyres, we can't even be sure they were the best, so trying to compare driver performance from the fastest laps (not even the average time per lap) doesn't make any sense.

[Fiondella]

We know nothing about what they were testing, the state of the track, etc. The only think we know more or less for sure is that Ferrari wasn't the worst with those tyres, we can't even be sure they were the best, so trying to compare driver performance from the fastest laps (not even the average time per lap) doesn't make any sense.

So, if Massa had finished 10th in the Pirelli tests then accordiing to your wisdom you would not have been able to draw any conclusions I guess

[Agron]

Not really, no. In FP sometimes Ferrari have been below 10 and in the race had the same pace as the leaders, and the opposite. We don't know the real speed of a car until qualifying and race, FP is more often than not meaningless to us (not to the teams of course, because they know what they are doing and have a pretty good idea of what their rivals are doing too), so these post-season tests with unknown tyres mean even less.

[Fiondella]

So you're telling me that they never attempted a low fuel Abu dhabi quali configuration with Pirelli equivalent replacement compound to make a comparison? That would be an obvious test to conduct IMO.

Comparison quali and test lap times with Massa the only driver to better his quali time:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/11/2...lli-test-ends/

[Grillo]

TBH, it was easier to improve his quali times for Massa than it was for most other top driver.

[Agron]

You have your oppinion and I have mine, there's no way to know who is right unless we have inside info so let's leave it at that .

[Mrs.Domenicali]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88465

Pirelli identifies final tweaks required
By Edd Straw and Matt Beer Monday, November 22nd 2010, 15:53 GMT

Pirelli says its first full-field Formula 1 test in Abu Dhabi has given it a clear idea of the final adjustments it needs to make to its 2011 rubber, but that overall the test confirmed everything it had learned in its own private work with a 2009 Toyota.

The new-for-2011 tyres received a broadly positive response from the F1 drivers and teams after the first group test last week, and Pirelli's tyre research and development director Maurizio Boiocchi said that only fine-tuning was now required.

"All the teams gave common feedback that we will follow over the next week to improve and optimise the tyre which is, in my mind, already more than good," he told AUTOSPORT.

"We are very happy about the performance, especially taking into account that on August 19 we turned a wheel for the first time at Mugello and three months later we ran with 12 teams.

"Everything that we did with the simulations and computer models was really helpful and based on that, and the work with the Toyota, we developed the solutions that we used during the test.

"We have some additional tuning to do on the compounds and rebalance the stiffness of the tyre front and rear to improve the characteristics even more, but these were two fantastic days. We would have signed for this when we first started this adventure!"

He was pleased with how seamlessly the work Pirelli had done with the 2009 Toyota transferred to the 2010 cars.

"The correlation between the Toyota TF109 that we tested with and what happened in Abu Dhabi is impressive," said Boiocchi. "It was very close, very tight."

Boiocchi acknowledged that changes to the car designs for 2011 would affect things, but was confident that Pirelli had factored this into its preparations.

"We are designing the tyres for the 2011 cars, for which the rules will be changed and there will be different downforce characteristics with the single diffuser at the back of the car," he said. "There are a lot of differences and we are developing the tyres according to the future needs.

"The test was about checking what we have. The test was about checking the tyres with performances levels that are very different compared to the 2009 Toyota. The downforce, aerodynamics and lap times are totally different. We achieved a very tight correlation between the two things and what we now need to do is very clear from this two-day test."

[Poltergeistes]

Thats not really true. Massa said this in the first part of the year and said he had no problem with the softs, of course until Alonso started destroying him on that compound as well, then apparently even the softs were too hard for him. From my experience, drivers are the absolute last people you should listen to when it comes to justifying their poor performances. They are all delusional. Only a few like Eddie Irvine put their hand up and said Michael is just too fast. Heikki was another one who blamed tyres when Hamilton destroyed him. Funny how he never had tyre problems before and after he drove for Mclaren. Even in the gp2 lotus.

Are you saying that tyres tempetures during the super Q plays no factor at all? in fact that tyres temperatures plays no factor at any momment? that it's only an excuse used by drivers that are slower?

You should most definetly pay some visits to the technical forum, you would be amazed at how a few degrees under ideal temp will make a car a second slower per lap.

PS So in your head Nando only have those accidentals 360* during the warm up laps just for fun? not because it's crucial to have your tyre as warm as possible when the lights go out?