Results 1 to 30 of 30

Thread: Are these Pirelli's too soft or is it just Lewis?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Reality
    Posts
    6,932

    Are these Pirelli's too soft or is it just Lewis?

    There's no doubt that the Pirellis are soft - and deliberately so, but do you think they've overdone it?

    I know many drivers are saying things - and that it looks likely that we'll be starting on maybe 3 pits stops per race just for the tyres to make the distance, but do you think it's too much? Will it slow the racing down as far as we are concerned or is it just that Lewis' heart will have to remain "un driven out" in 2011?

    I'm interested to know what TSN think ahead of the start of the season on this issue. Ferrari seem to be slightly less vocal than some other teams too so do we have less to worry about?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011...n-f1-new-tyres

    Formula One is on a go-slow, according to Lewis Hamilton, one of five world champions on the grid when the new season gets under way in Melbourne three weeks time.
    The new season will herald a number of technical changes, including the introduction of an adjustable rear wing and the return of the kinetic energy recovery system (KERS), which will make life busier than ever for the drivers.


    But it is another change, the arrival of Pirelli as the sole tyre provider, which has made the biggest difference. According to Hamilton it has made the cars slower. As McLaren prepare for their final testing session in Barcelona, Hamilton said: "There is more to think about in the car. But Formula One does seem to have slowed down.


    "The cars are slower on a race distance. Last year we had to make tyres last with heavier fuel load and now it's even slower. I did run the other day and it was painfully slow, it really was. Just not exciting, to be honest.


    "The first run – I didn't think I was pushing very hard – and the tyres were finished after nine laps, down to the canvas. On the next run, I had to go easier. It was almost like doing an out lap and just about made it to 15 or 16 on a soft tyre."


    McLaren already have their hands full as they try to close the gap between themselves and the pace-setting Red Bull and Ferrari cars, but all the teams will have to come to terms with the new, fast-wearing tyres, which is likely to result in more pit-stops and more changes in the running order.


    "Over the years you have to change your style and adapt, while keeping the important part, which is the speed and aggression," Hamilton said. "Now the biggest step is how we are going to have to look after the tyres.


    "You'll see it's going to be just as competitive this year, if not more. The regs are bringing the teams closer, making it more competitive, but not as hard-core competitive. In 2007 and 2008, the teams were so quick and pushing each other so fast at the front. They've now slowed down the cars a little, it's maybe a more even playing field."


    Hamilton's team-mate, Jenson Button, has seen a very fast Ferrari in the early testing sessions. Fernando Alonso has been very quick in testing – both drivers have at Ferrari. "And they have been reliable," Button said. "They were doing 140 laps a day and a couple of days we did 55. Big difference.


    "They are in a great position. I don't really know how quick they are. I know he [Fernando] did his quick lap on a supersoft tyre in Barcelona. We didn't have one. You can look at their long runs and say they are consistent and so they must have downforce. They look strong.


    "Red Bulls are the same as last winter. They didn't look amazingly strong and got to first race and were massively quick. Then you have a gaggle of cars. The Toro Rossos look very competitive, they have done a great job, the Renault is a step behind that, even Force India … There are a lot of quick cars out there."

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    33,777
    Think it was Canada last year they were too soft, yeah it made an exciting race because I was kind of new and unique, if it's like that every track then I think it would not be good for F1, if drivers are having to nurse tyres just to make it into double figures of laps then it's not really racing. Ferrari tend to always be quiet, then we will get beat and the tyres will be to blame....lol
    Forza Ferrari

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    73
    Of course it Lewis

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Turkey/Istanbul
    Posts
    655
    lewis will have 4-5 pit stops for each race=))

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Manchester, UK
    Posts
    931
    If the racing between the 3 pit stops are sprints, then I'll be happy. Like, the tyres can handle the pit stop windows at flat-out pace (just). At the moment, it sounds like sprinting might be too damaging on the tyres. If that's the case, it will be kinda interesting to see who "can't help themselves", and just gives it the beans straight away, only to be overtaken by a tortoise a few laps later. Kinda interesting for about 5 minutes anyway.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    33,777
    +1
    Forza Ferrari

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    261
    How many tires will they have during a weekend? If they need so many stops during the race we can expect to have very little running during practice and qualifying. That will take away some of the action leading up to the race and even fewer people will visit practice sessions which will result in less spending at the circuit and that is bad for the organizers.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    9,885
    I'm all about pushing the limit of the car. One of the reason why I'm against the limited tire rule is because I don't want to see all drivers going conservative trying to preserve their tires. this is not going to encourage overtaking as drivers wouldn't want to risk sliding around damaging their tires.

    I agree with Greig and Lewis too. Its not really racing if its all about going conservative.

    I hope it'll be a different picture once we start racing under warmer weather.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacquesvw View Post
    How many tires will they have during a weekend? If they need so many stops during the race we can expect to have very little running during practice and qualifying. That will take away some of the action leading up to the race and even fewer people will visit practice sessions which will result in less spending at the circuit and that is bad for the organizers.
    As far as I know, it remains the same, for now anyway

    true, all the more reason why it would be boring as everyone goes into conservative mode

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Reality
    Posts
    6,932
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacquesvw View Post
    How many tires will they have during a weekend? If they need so many stops during the race we can expect to have very little running during practice and qualifying. That will take away some of the action leading up to the race and even fewer people will visit practice sessions which will result in less spending at the circuit and that is bad for the organizers.
    http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/0...mited-in-2011/

    Food for thought!


    The rules say that the drivers have 11 sets of tyres. They have two sets of hard and one soft set for practice. They must give a set back of primes after first practice and a set of each back after second practice.


    That leaves eight sets for Saturday and Sunday, of which a set of hards and a set of softs must be given back before qualifying.


    With the performance we have seen so far in testing, where the tyre performance drops off by as much as six seconds over the life of the tyres and the hard tyre lasts around 20-22 laps, it’s likely that a car will not be able to do much meaningful running on Friday, compared with the Bridgestones, which were good for a race distance at some venues.


    Drivers will have six sets of tyres for qualifying and the race. The drop off in performance after the first hot lap in qualifying means that there is no point in staying out for a second lap, as the next lap is at least a second slower. So drivers will attempt to do just one run in each of the three sessions. Of course anyone in trouble in Q1 or Q2, or who does not expect to make it through Q1, can throw extra sets at it, but the front runners will not be able to do that. Certainly Q3 will be all on the one lap.


    In qualifying, it takes at least three sets, but only if everything goes perfectly. Perhaps you have a yellow or red flag, or make a mistake. Then a set is done straight away, ” Sebastian Vettel said recently. “It’s not like you can recycle a tyre again and then get a second run. These days the pace drops by one second.”
    It’s also going to be tight for front runners in Q1 as the gap in performance for used tyres compared to new ones, means that even a Red Bull or a Ferrari will be taking a chance trying to get through Q1 with a used set, as they did last year, in order to save tyres for a second run in Q3. So all roads point to Q3 being a single lap challenge for pole, as it was a few years ago.
    Potentially lots more gambling going on than usual.....

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    4,913
    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    I'm all about pushing the limit of the car. One of the reason why I'm against the limited tire rule is because I don't want to see all drivers going conservative trying to preserve their tires. this is not going to encourage overtaking as drivers wouldn't want to risk sliding around damaging their tires.
    Agree we want to see the ultimate--- fast cars, quick drivers and the latest in technology!!!!!!! After all F1 is meant to be at the pinnacle of motor racing?????????

    If they continue in this vein we are going to see less people interested not quite what Bernie et al had in mind.
    Last edited by racingbradley; 7th March 2011 at 14:53.


    Forza Jules

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    U S A
    Posts
    2,495
    Massa says he loves the Perelli tyres. It's just what he wanted. Last year he had a bad time with the Bridgestones.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Berlin
    Posts
    171
    It's not a big drama.

    Teams will have to find the way to make the tyres go the fast as posible over a race distance having in mind the other team's strategies.

    Sounds fun to me, compared to last year's "make ten laps with soft rest with hard compound..."

    Maybe this year, some teams will go faster with 3 pitstops and taking care o the tyres, maybe other teams will go faster with 4 pitstops and pushing them hard.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    4,913
    Quote Originally Posted by brembo man View Post
    Massa says he loves the Perelli tyres. It's just what he wanted. Last year he had a bad time with the Bridgestones.
    I guess he had done a few race distances before he said that! Perhaps we will see a new hierarchy along the pit lane-----those who can manage the tyres and those who can’t. Poor Lewis may very well be in the 2nd division then.
    It may well depend on driving styles so there is a possibility it could be interesting!!!!!!!!
    Not all bad then.
    However the more resourceful teams/drivers will quickly adapt as they so often do


    Forza Jules

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,381
    OK, so I've read through most of the pros and cons on this issue.
    All I can add is that ALL the teams will be playing by the same rules,
    which makes it fair. All this will do is force them to "strategize" in
    a different manner.

    Which will, I believe, make the racing that much more interesting!!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Belfast, UK
    Posts
    8,498
    The first couple of races will hopefully be exciting as the drivers adjust to the new tyres and we see lots of crazy pitstops and strategies (maybe), but I dunno... I'm worried the novelty of that will wear off. Say, for example, a Ferrari is leading - I don't want to spend however many of the last laps worrying that their tyres are going to go Not good for my nerves.
    Forza Jules

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    N. Ireland
    Posts
    867
    I'm already nervous enough waiting for the finish never mind having the unknown of tyres! It will make it more exciting though, last year we basically knew after the first stops what position everyone would finish in.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Stowmarket. U.K
    Posts
    18,334
    Quote Originally Posted by brembo man View Post
    Massa says he loves the Perelli tyres. It's just what he wanted. Last year he had a bad time with the Bridgestones.
    Bridgestone went way to conservative for their last year in the sport as they didnt want any really bad comments about the tyres dropping off or anything like that. Shame really, because Pirelli has come in and given us what we want. More race action and tyres that will not last 50-60 laps and everyone pretty much stopping all at once or within 1 lap of each other. Boring, predictable.

    As we havnt the tyre wars of years gone by (good years ) this is pretty much as close as we can have it. Drivers like Lewis and Vettel, will be hurting the most. As on the 2009-10 Bridgestones they could just attack every lap. They knew the tyres would last silly amount of laps. May drop off, then come back too them.

    I hope Pirelli havent gone to over the edge. I mean i like see more tyre strategy, few more pit stops. The good old 10-20 lap sprints in between the pitstops, lots of hard fast driving from the best. But, if they have gone to extreme, we may see drivers conserving them going just fast enough, but slow enough to look after the tyres.

    Hoping for the full on sprint!!!
    Last edited by Rob; 7th March 2011 at 19:48. Reason: typo lol
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    4,931
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    Bridgestone went way to conservative for their last year in the sport as they didnt want any really bad comments about the tyres dropping off or anything like that. Shame really, because Pirelli has come in and given us what we want. More race action and tyres that will not last 50-60 laps and everyone pretty much stopping all at once or within 1 lap of each other. Boring, predictable.

    As we havnt the tyre wars of years gone by (good years ) this is pretty much as close as we can have it. Drivers like Lewis and Vettel, will be hurting the most. As on the 2009-10 Bridgestones they could just attack every lap. They knew the tyres would last silly amount of laps. May drop off, then come back too them.

    I hope Pirelli havent gone to over the edge. I mean i like see more tyre strategy, few more pit stops. The good old 10-20 lap sprints in between the pitstops, lost of hard fast driving from the best. But, if they have gone to extreme, we may see drivers conserving them going just fast enough, but slow enough to look after the tyres.

    Hoping for the full on sprint!!!
    Agree completly


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    103
    I dont even use pirelli's under my italian roadcar because they wear to fast and in the rain......(yoko's work just fine for me)
    But if F1 becomes all about saving fuel & tires they might think about entering a Prius.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,381
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzie View Post
    ...but I dunno... I'm worried the novelty of that will wear off. Say, for example, a Ferrari is leading - I don't want to spend however many of the last laps worrying that their tyres are going to go Not good for my nerves.
    OK, but, what if Red Bull is in the lead?
    Will you spend "however many of the last laps"
    HOPING that their tires are going to go?


    p.s. I still don't get why there can only be "one"
    supplier!! I believe it should be up to the team
    to decide who they want to go with and which
    tire each driver prefers!

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Reality
    Posts
    6,932
    Quote Originally Posted by sagi58 View Post
    OK, but, what if Red Bull is in the lead?
    Will you spend "however many of the last laps"
    HOPING that their tires are going to go?


    p.s. I still don't get why there can only be "one"
    supplier!! I believe it should be up to the team
    to decide who they want to go with and which
    tire each driver prefers!


    cos if one supplier is comparatively poor it spoils the season and is an unjust representation of the cars (see 2005 for details)

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    U S A
    Posts
    2,495
    I'll have to make a special set of brakes for Lewis to compensate for his violent moves, and preserve his tyres.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,381
    brembo, I get that; but, doesn't the same hold true for
    any of the other bits and pieces? e.g., engine, KERS, etc?

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    N. Delhi/Helsinki
    Posts
    5,124
    It gives advantage to drivers who know how to manage tyres like Alonso, Button & Webber. I can already see Lewis entertaining us by his off track adventures

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    9,885
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    Bridgestone went way to conservative for their last year in the sport as they didnt want any really bad comments about the tyres dropping off or anything like that. Shame really, because Pirelli has come in and given us what we want. More race action and tyres that will not last 50-60 laps and everyone pretty much stopping all at once or within 1 lap of each other. Boring, predictable.

    As we havnt the tyre wars of years gone by (good years ) this is pretty much as close as we can have it. Drivers like Lewis and Vettel, will be hurting the most. As on the 2009-10 Bridgestones they could just attack every lap. They knew the tyres would last silly amount of laps. May drop off, then come back too them.

    I hope Pirelli havent gone to over the edge. I mean i like see more tyre strategy, few more pit stops. The good old 10-20 lap sprints in between the pitstops, lots of hard fast driving from the best. But, if they have gone to extreme, we may see drivers conserving them going just fast enough, but slow enough to look after the tyres.

    Hoping for the full on sprint!!!
    Don't forget that we're still confined by limited number of tires
    Chances are, the only strategy you'll see is when to switch tires, not how often.

    And personally, I prefer pure racing where drivers attacking the lap times and overtake rather than having a long boring RTS game (real time strategy )

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,756
    Just scrub the intermediate and rain tire and use them in the dry.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    London
    Posts
    7,405
    Just Lewis
    Michael Schumacher - the best there was, the best there is, and the best there ever will be!

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    U S A
    Posts
    2,495
    Quote Originally Posted by sagi58 View Post
    brembo, I get that; but, doesn't the same hold true for
    any of the other bits and pieces? e.g., engine, KERS, etc?
    Lewis doesn't believe kers is any real help, because the other guy has it also. But the pole sitter even if it's him should get up and go.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,608
    WMSC has announced some interesting changes regarding tyres.
    Basically, for some events, teams will be given extra sets of tyres to further test tyres during practice sessions. Sometimes they will be given a different compound and sometimes they will be given the same compounds. They will have to hand the extra sets back after the practice sessions.
    This is probably as much to ensure that teams do actually run during practice as give them more time to learn the new tyres.
    Also, SC speed limit will be enforced over two laps, plus a few other SC tweaks.
    http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=43051

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Dubai, UAE
    Posts
    10,238
    FIA change sporting regulations to boost Pirelli

    by James Allen

    Further to my post the other day about the action on track being more limited this season due to the wear rates on the Pirelli tyres and the limited tyre allocations, the FIA World Motor Sport Council has today adapted the Sporting Regulations to generate more track action and to give Pirelli a chance to evaluate new tyres.

    They have also said that a decision on whether the Bahrain GP can be rescheduled will not be made before May 1, on which date the Bahrainis need to let the FIA know whether a race can be run in 2011.

    With no testing allowed from this Saturday – the end of the last official F1 test in Barcelona – until November when the Young Drivers test takes place, this move means that Pirelli can evaluate new compounds and constructions, which they can feed into the range at a later date if necessary.

    This will certainly help with the evolution of a super soft tyre, as the ones produced thus far haven’t been on the money.

    A statement from the FIA today said,

    “At certain events, one additional specification of dry weather tyre may be made available to all teams for evaluation purposes. Teams will be informed about such an additional specification at least one week before the start of the relevant event. Two sets of these tyres will be allocated to each driver for use during P1 and P2, and any such tyres must be returned to the tyre supplier before the start of P3.

    “One additional set of ‘prime’ specification tyres may be made available to all drivers. Teams will be informed about such an additional set at least one week before the start of the relevant event. In this instance, the additional set will be available for use during P1 and P2. One set of ‘prime’ tyres must then be returned to the tyre supplier after P1, and two further sets of ‘prime’ and one set of ‘option’ specification tyres returned before the start of P3.”

    So the change is that there will be a second set of hard tyres available for each car for use on Friday, which means more track action for fans to enjoy and more set up time for drivers and teams, especially on their only real ‘test’ opportunity on Fridays for new components.

    There is also a change to the Safety Car rules as follows:

    “During a safety car period the pit exit light will remain green for the duration, unless the race is subsequently suspended.

    Other than when the safety car has been asked to use the pit lane, no car may enter the pits while the safety car is deployed unless it is for the purpose of changing tyres.”

    A few drivers have fallen foul of the pit lane exit light being on red when the safety car train is passing, especially at Montreal. That will no longer be a factor.

    http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/0...boost-pirelli/
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •