Hamilton questions RBR front wing

[Raz]

How about we hide a turbo with the loudest dump valve in history? Technically, if they can't find it, then by their own definition they'll have to ignore the fact that they can hear it.

I'm sorry mate, just found that hilarious for some reason

[NJB13]

From F1 Technical site, a good GIF that clearly shows the front wing AND the nose flexing..

[Greig]

If only we could be so clever I don't really trust those gifs, car might be under braking or heavy acceleration, all cars will have some degree of flex

[NJB13]

If only we could be so clever I don't really trust those gifs, car might be under braking or heavy acceleration, all cars will have some degree of flex

Come on mate, just the tip of the nose of a car is going to flex like that under braking/acceleration? I agree with your comments about GIF's in general, but, the full video link is posted so you can see its real and you can watch it in its entirety.

I also want us to be clever, but I don't want us to cheat, that's been the domain of Macca's recently

[Tifosi]

It's a great idea and I'm sure they knew the paddock would find out sooner or later. Should be easier to copy than the DDD though in terms of time to so do, but I agree that we should really start thinking these ideas up for ourselves instead of watching others do it first.

[Grillo]

It's a great idea and I'm sure they knew the paddock would find out sooner or later.

The idea is quite old. I mean we all knew about Red Bull's flexi wing last year, we even had one since Hockenheim which was said to put Ferrari back in the fight for the Championship. We should have a revised version of our own flexi wing or else Ferrari should have made sure the FIA won't accept those front wings in 2011.

[Greig]

Come on mate, just the tip of the nose of a car is going to flex like that under braking/acceleration? I agree with your comments about GIF's in general, but, the full video link is posted so you can see its real and you can watch it in its entirety.

I also want us to be clever, but I don't want us to cheat, that's been the domain of Macca's recently

Red Bull are not cheating, neither were we last year when our wing flexed, maybe we forgot to bring it this year or something

[ferrari4life]

Red Bull are not cheating, neither were we last year when our wing flexed, maybe we forgot to bring it this year or something

That is shocking that we would do that.. we used it last year.. obviously found some advantage.. and then we forgot to bring it to the table for this year...

maybe its part of our "simplistic" car design approach for this year.

[Tifosi]

The idea is quite old. I mean we all knew about Red Bull's flexi wing last year, we even had one since Hockenheim which was said to put Ferrari back in the fight for the Championship. We should have a revised version of our own flexi wing or else Ferrari should have made sure the FIA won't accept those front wings in 2011.

The idea of a flexi wing is old but RB's ability to make it work for them by that method clearly is or we'd have copied it back then and it wouldn't have taken everyone until this week to realise just how it was working so well for them. :-|

[NJB13]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but, I think if we limit our response to only trying to copy it then perhaps we are also limiting our chances of best negating their advantage.

If copying it was really that easy, I suspect we would already have it. We probably don't have much of an idea how they are making it flex as and when needed.

The way I see it, there are two paths to negate their advantage. 1) Copy 2) Take theirs away. I happen to think we should follow both. If we can take their advantage away, it saves us a fair bit and we can spend our development resources on improving our package in other ways. Also, taking it away from them may harm their package in other ways.

[LeonKennedy]

I hate to say it, but lately I envy the McLaren innovative design approach... we should focus in being innovative and I'm sure Ferrari has the resources and the people to do it..

[ferrari1.8t]

Yes, consensus now seems to be that it is the nose that's doing most of the flexing. Found these photo's yesterday that show it.

That image is definitely a wake up call to Ferrari and other teams. You can clearly see a difference between the wing positions. While I don't like "copying designs", I am all for trying something like this out to close the gap and make up lost points. Then once the gap has been closed we can work on our own "innovations".

[Greig]

So how are they making the nose flex?

[Rob]

So how are they making the nose flex?

imagine it would be in the layering and weaving of the carbon fibre. Just think, that high class fishing rods for big big fish at sea are fairly rigid and strong. But, can take massive loads of weight.

Would of thought the aera which is made that way to flex, if it is that aswell, would be where the nose cone joins onto the monocoque. Remember the front wing failure they had on vettes car at Silverstone last year? I know that may of been the bolts, but still makes you wonder what else was (is) going on with that front wing of theirs.

[ferrari4life]

That image is definitely a wake up call to Ferrari and other teams. You can clearly see a difference between the wing positions. While I don't like "copying designs", I am all for trying something like this out to close the gap and make up lost points. Then once the gap has been closed we can work on our own "innovations".

i have seen that picture on another site.. and they show the whole picture.. if you look at the back of the car at the read wing.. they are 2 different wings.. therefore 2 different cars.

[ferrari1.8t]

i have seen that picture on another site.. and they show the whole picture.. if you look at the back of the car at the read wing.. they are 2 different wings.. therefore 2 different cars.

Do you have a link? Or the actual picture? I would love to see it. Regardless of different wings or not, RB clearly has figured a way to "flex" the front wing or nose to gain downforce and time.

[ferrari4life]

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss12/DUGDO/RBWF.jpg

[ferrari1.8t]

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss12/DUGDO/RBWF.jpg

Thanks for finding that! From the look of it, the chassis and wings seem the same in both pictures, other than some new decals on the rear wing. But I could be missing something.

[WS6TransAm01]

why teams moan about it since it works copy it like they have with every other thing that works on an f1 car over the years

I think the problem is the other teams can't figure out how to do it... so its easier to have it banned than copy it.

[Grillo]

imagine it would be in the layering and weaving of the carbon fibre. Just think, that high class fishing rods for big big fish at sea are fairly rigid and strong. But, can take massive loads of weight.

I think that's how they do it. If what I read is correct and I understood correctly, it's not new for aerospace engineering.

[REDARMYSOJA]

So how are they making the nose flex?

This is a wild guess, but the only thing I can see visually that might be how they are doing it.

We know the wing itself flexes horizontally, but I don't think it flexes any more that is allowed by the test. I noticed these little "indents" on the nose, I have them marked in the photo, and I think they are after the point where the nose assembly connects. I also noticed the McLaren doesn't have them.




I wonder it that narrowed area is a bit weaker, thus allowing the nose to flex. I also noticed towards the tip of the nose is rather flat and wide, which would allow it to catch air and push the nose downward. Like I say, I'm sure it's wrong, but it's the only visual thing I can see to explain it. I wouldn't doubt also if there is flex in the wing mount pylons. A little flex in all three places, wing, nose, mounting pylons, add up to a lot, but still allows it to pass the test. Just a wild guess.

[Suzie]

So how are they making the nose flex?

Because the thingy is attached to the wotsit.
That's how.

[racingbradley]

Just about my technical level too Suzie.

[scuderiafan]

Because the thingy is attached to the wotsit.
That's how.

We must tell Ferrari right away!

[Tifosi]

I wish this was an April Fools joke!

[steelstallions]

Maybe Mclaren should steal their blue prints so they can clarify to FIA why its illegal and then deny knowing anything about it.

[sagi58]

Thanks for finding that! From the look of it, the chassis and wings seem the same in both pictures, other than some new decals on the rear wing. But I could be missing something.

I thought the same thing! Just because it may not be the same car, on the same day,
at the same track, doesn't mean it's not the same design. The car in the bottom picture
just seems to be going faster than the top one, which is the whole point, isn't it? That the
nose flexes with speed?

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss12/DUGDO/RBWF.jpg

[NJB13]

So how are they making the nose flex?

Here are two possibilities. I'm talking nose flex.

1) it bends under pressure of airflow.
2) smart wire(s) possibly electrically activated

I'd guess 1 because its the simplest, it seems supported by the behavior in the small video (the noses bobs up and down) effected by speed/airflow pressure. Number 2 is pretty leading edge and would take a lot to perfect.

[Hornet]

So how are they making the nose flex?

Some time ago, someone posted a picture of RB last year where there's an obvious gap between the bodywork and the nosecone.

If I have to take a guess, I'd say it flexes at the mounting point which is easier than building an entire nosecone that could contract and stretch that much. Who knows, it might even be mechanically released so the mounting is rigid during FIA's test but when they go racing the additional rigid lock is release and the nose is free to flex.

Just a guess of course. If the FIA test the wing without being mounted on the car, all the more easier to flex the nosecone mount.

[Brakefade]

Isn't the central part of the front wing supposed to stay in the same spot at the same angle? Whatever the case may be though, one thing is perfectly clear: Ferrari need to copy this ASAP. Forget protesting with the FIA, we should not be counting on them to win us the championship anyways. Copy, copy, copy!

I've also said this before and I'll say it again, load tests are worthless now. What the FIA needs to do is put sensors all over the wings, and other aero pieces, like the nose cone (yes that is an aero device), and monitor their movement. If it exceeds certain parameters during the practice sessions, or the race, the car should be excluded from the results. Simple as that. I hope they do something like this soon, because it would save the teams a lot of money, and it would instantly bring the gaps between the cars down, making for an exciting championship.