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Thread: Defending Those Across The Pond

  1. #1
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    Question Defending Those Across The Pond



    Ever since the news broke that Kimi Raikkonen is off to NASCAR, PF1 posters have been having a go at the American series, many saying some rather derogatory statements that, well, we'd never publish.

    However, NASCAR isn't that bad. In fact, in some ways it trumps Formula One - and here's why.

    - In NASCAR there are more than five overtaking moves a race. In fact, in NASCAR there are more than five a lap. Take the Daytona 500 run at the start of this season. There were 74 lead changes, that's not including all passes, and 22 different drivers led the race - that's the entire F1 field in Melbourne. Another example, last Sunday at Fontana, Kyle Busch was leading with five laps to go with Jimmy Johnson right on his rear wing. Johnson took the lead with three laps to go while Kevin Harvick was closing in fast from third place. He easily took Busch and basically three corners from the end of the race took the victory off Johnson.
    When last did F1 have a three-way fight for a race win with five laps to go?

    - Drafting. In NASCAR you can sit on the chap in front's back bumper. Actually, the cars are designed to do just that. They close right up on the car in front, tuck under his bumper and give him a push. This allows the two cars to have better slipstreaming, giving them a speed advantage over the rest of the pack. It's impressive to watch.

    In F1, the cars create so much 'dirty' air that it's almost impossible to close up on the guy in front. And if you were to and actually put your cars -to-nose, chances are you'd lose your front wing.

    - Anyone can win a NASCAR race. When the drivers, over 40 of them, line-up on the grid at the start of the race they know that anyone of them can win. Just ask Trevor Bayne. A rookie in the sport, he won the prestigious Daytona 500. Since then, he's sucked. So even those not firing all the time can pull off that one magic moment and that's all you need in NASCAR to win a race. And that's largely because the cars are so similar.

    In F1, there is a multi-million dollar difference between the front and the rear of the grid. Hell, there's a multi-million dollar difference between the front and the midfield. That basically means that, barring any crazy rain showers like in Monza 2008, those at the back are never racing for victories, they are barely racing for points most of the time!

    - The green-white-checkers finishes. In NASCAR you get to race for the victory even if there's a caution on the final lap. The rules state that when the race ends under a yellow-flag caution, once the track is clear there will be an additional two laps. The first lap is the green-flag lap, i.e. back to racing, while the white-flag lap is the final lap and then of course there's the checkered flag, i.e. the end. This allows the drivers to fight for the race win and giving them two laps in which to do it.

    Now think back to last year's Monaco Grand Prix. The race was behind the Safety Car after Jarno Trulli and Karun Chandhok decided on lap 70 to see whose car really was on top in the battle of the newbies. Mark Webber was leading the race and went on to win as it was behind the Safety Car until the very end. However, Michael Schumacher overtook a "sleeping" Fernando Alonso on the final corner for sixth place. But he was later penalised and stripped of his points as the stewards declared he had broken the rules. Now imagine if he had another two laps...

    - No need for rain to spice up the action. When Bernie Ecclestone touted the idea of artificially wet F1 races, Williams' technical director Sam Michael told BBC Sport: "I don't think it's a good idea. It's taking a step too far in terms if making it an orchestrated show. There are other ways of improving the racing without going down the NASCAR route. In fact, NASCAR don't even do that, so it's derogatory to them to say that."

    Firstly, what Michael should note is the correct English for "NASCAR don't even do that" would be "NASCAR doesn't even do that." Secondly, NASCAR doesn't need to that. The races are exciting. From lead changes to crashes to passing to nudging the barriers. It's all there already. NASCAR doesn't have to create excitement.
    F1 does! Let's just think back to the 2010 Bahrain GP or the 2010 European GP. Don't remember them? That's probably because you were sleeping.

    - There's no pretence, what you see is what you get. In NASCAR the drivers give officials the finger when they get penalised for speeding through the pits (and later the officials slap back). They tell it as it is, or as they perceive it to be, when someone takes them out. Throw the occasional punch. If their car is crap they will tell you it is and that the team needs to work harder. There are no grid girls, you stand by your car with your wife, your children, your family.

    Now let's think about F1. One driver in recent times who wasn't pretension was Kimi Raikkonen. Remember the ice cream incident? Yip, you all do because it was so different to what any F1 driver in the modern era would do. He wasn't a yes man. He was the Ice Man. And he got slated for it because in F1, it's all about the PR.

    - Juan Pablo Montoya (and now Kimi Raikkonen). Montoya is in NASCAR and Kimi is heading that way. Both drivers, love 'em or hate 'em, are great drivers. They have something many others are lacking, they have guts. They drove with aggression, style and passion. It was an experience watching them race.

    F1, well, there aren't a lot of drivers like that in F1 because they would be slated for over-aggression. So Michael Schumacher almost put Rubens Barrichello into the wall in Hungary, well good for him. It was racing. And it was great. PS: I still say Rubens should have backed off.

    - Crowds and ticket prices. Despite having almost 40 events on the calendar, fans flock to NASCAR. The crowds are huge. That's partly because of the ticket prices. I can go to this weekend's NASCAR event Martinsville Speedway for $99.00 for a two-day package.
    In contrast, I can go to Silverstone for the British GP and pay £135 for general admission - and that's only for the Sunday.

    That's £62 vs £135.

    - The Star Spangled banner. I am not American. I have no patriotism or feelings towards their anthem. But it is a sight to behold when the crowd stands to their feet, removes their caps, puts their hands on their hearts and sings along. The drivers, their families and team personnel all do the same. Those who aren't American don't sing but they stand to attention and stay silent.

    At last Sunday's Australian GP, the crowd stood and sang while the F1 teams and drivers chatted. Even F1's only Aussie driver, Mark Webber, was, at least according to the pictures shown on TV, not paying any attention to the anthem.

    Michelle Foster

    PS: Before I come in for flak, which I'm sure I will, I do love F1!

    http://www.planet-f1.com/editorial/6...1-s-USA-Rivals

    -------------

    So what do you guys think? I still prefer F1 technology over any other series. But the way F1 is headed, I think there would be many who would switch interests to another series..
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

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  3. #3
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    Hmmm

    I get a feeling with all the over regulation F1 will be Nascar with wings (and even they may go )
    Its all in the name - FERRARI

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    Hmmm

    I get a feeling with all the over regulation F1 will be Nascar with wings (and even they may go )
    Just wait until Whiting starts throwing in safety cars just to make it more interesting and we get adverts every 2 minutes.

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    and all they have to know is how to turn left
    not gonna change my profile picture

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    Think they should give f1 drivers the option to turn the engine in the car ahead of you off when you get withing half a second of the driver
    we're number one

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    I am not a big fan of Nascar but I have seen that there are reasons why its more popular over here than in europe...

    I dont think its fair to sit there and make fun of Nascar because its different.. I think those guys probably make fun of F1 just the same
    we're number one

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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrari4life View Post
    I am not a big fan of Nascar but I have seen that there are reasons why its more popular over here than in europe...

    I dont think its fair to sit there and make fun of Nascar because its different.. I think those guys probably make fun of F1 just the same
    I dont thnk so..Ive read many articles about nascar drivers and teams tuning into Speed to watch the F1 races in the AM even on their own race days.
    On several occasions during interviews, the nascar drivers know all of the F1 standings and news.
    I think to drivers, its simply another racing series..quite different than others, but in Oz you have basically the same cars running on circuit layouts.
    Nascar does mostly ovals w/1 or 2 circuits a year. People generally mock something they dont understand. I must say I dont really tune into it very often,
    as its not exciting to me, then again neither is the German touring car series. Then again again, I prefer F1 and Lemans type prototipos and sports cars.
    I tuned in to see Montoya, so I will check Kimi if he indeed does a few races.

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    i didn't used to think much of NASCAR, but it has grown a lot. still, prefer F1. IMO nothing beats it for excitement or drama on and off the track.


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    I dont thnk so..Ive read many articles about nascar drivers and teams tuning into Speed to watch the F1 races in the AM even on their own race days.
    On several occasions during interviews, the nascar drivers know all of the F1 standings and news.
    I think to drivers, its simply another racing series..quite different than others, but in Oz you have basically the same cars running on circuit layouts.
    Nascar does mostly ovals w/1 or 2 circuits a year. People generally mock something they dont understand. I must say I dont really tune into it very often,
    as its not exciting to me, then again neither is the German touring car series. Then again again, I prefer F1 and Lemans type prototipos and sports cars.
    I tuned in to see Montoya, so I will check Kimi if he indeed does a few races.
    I was referring to the fans who would make fun of F1..
    However its a lot more than just driving around in circles. there is a lot more excitement in that sport from what I understand. Pit crews dont have 2 men per tire and they run around the car to get to each tires. pit stops are more calculated as sometimes they only change 2 tires and not all. the way they refuel is different.
    the cars can literally be within inchs of each other and that is used for passing by forcing the driver ahead of you into a spot he doesnt want to be. a car can end up last and still make it around and win by the end of the race..

    all i can say is its different and I respect what they do there and I think its pretty low to make fun of it just because its circle driving.. because we dont understand it doesnt mean its not exciting or better than F1.
    we're number one

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    F1 goes in a circle too, just in a different way ;). Great posts ref to Nascar , I love the sport. And actually there are quite a few Nascar fans that really are getting into F1 also ;).


    Anti- Ferrari Fans the official breakfast of champions !

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    BTCC is better, anyone can win, plenty overtaking and cheap as chips

    NASCAR sucks
    Forza Ferrari

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    I could never get into NASCAR even if you paid me to.

    I just don't enjoy watching cars going around in an oval without having to turn the other direction. Not knocking on NASCAR, but one of the thing that I love watching autoracing is how different tracks has very different characteristic, from Sepang's high speed S turn to Spa's uphill climb, this is what makes autoracing challenging. Its not just about pure speed moving forward, its how you control your car through these twist and turns.

    Of course, that said, if you asked me about Abu Dhabi, Turkey or Bahrain, I can't think of any distinct feature of those track. Shame how modern tracks are basically just different combination of the same type of corners.

  14. #14
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    I like Nascar, I tune in every once in a while.... it's a lot more exciting than F1 these days anyway.... watching them on actual tracks is really cool too.... I can't watch them on ovals for too long, it gets boring, but on a proper race track, watching them slide around, it's fun as hell!
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

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    I know I am biased to F1, however, to me NASCAR is just a bunch of overpriced bumper cars circling a track for a few hours seeing who could end the race with the most damage on their car. It is a big waste of time, sponsors, metal, fuel and money. I also agree with Tony that watching them circle an oval 500 times gets boring. The only thing exciting about NASCAR is the thundering sound the engines leave behind when they are all revving together at the same time.

    Im with your Hornet, I could never get into NASCAR even if you paid me to!

    but thats just me and my opinion....my comments are not meant to offend anyone
    ~FORZA FERRARI~

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    I've watched plenty of NASCAR in my time, some of it great racing. It's not as easy to hustle those heavy cars around an oval as many seem to think. It's true the rules are simple, but some seem to make the mistake they are that way because the NASCAR guys are too stupid to build a technically advanced car. Nothing could be further from the truth. If the rules were open, the cars they build would be much different from what they are now. But NASCAR has intentionally kept the rules simple to also keep them reasonably cheap. They must have 43 cars to fill their grid, so they need rules that allow that.

    That said, I don't like what NASCAR has become, particularly the cookie cutter ovals that are as boring as watching paint dry. I can't watch a full race anymore, I usually just tune in for the last 20 or so laps. Except for the road courses and some ovals like Darlington and the short tracks. To me, the Aussie V8 Super Cars are what NASCAR should be.

    Also what Nova pointed out is correct, many in NASCAR are F1 fans, they seem to watch a lot of the races and I only hear them say good things about F1. Greig is correct also, a good BTCC race at somewhere such as Knock Hill is hard to beat.

  17. #17
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    I don't really understand the point of the article. It's defending NASCAR by pretending to compare it to F1 but in fact just stating its good points by being different to it. If Kimi went to drive F1 Stock Cars in Britain with all the garage mechanics and farmers in F1 Stock Cars it still wouldn't detract from the great things about that particular formula or make it comparable to F1.

    Planet F1 making an article about nothing and pretending it has value in relation to the subject of F1. Duh!

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

  18. #18
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    Being American the one and only thing I hate about Nascar is: drum roll please...... there's no Ferrari. That and other things too.

    No, seriously I've tried to sit down and watch but there's no excitement to it, same as Indy. I have Homestead and Daytona right in my backyard and I've never been bothered to attend. There's no emotion.

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    Nascar tracks are also different, its also plenty exciting, there are many boring parts of F1 too. All racing has its boring parts, none is better than the other. In Nascar its more the driver, in F1 its more the car. Not to say driver isn't important but its more technical racing. I really enjoy both very much.


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    Tell a NASCAR driver to crash into a wall for the team, or pull back and let him pass!

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    NASCAR is crap. It's close racing by design, very much the same way pro wrestling matches always go down to the wire. I'll take american le mans to NASCAR any day.

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    Heard on Speed news, Kimi is going to test a nascar truck monday for possible races in that series...
    I have no idea why he wants to do something of that nature, especially doing the rally as he has been, but
    thats what he's reportedly going to do.
    The only part I liked about the report was that they showed him holding the wdc crown in his Ferrari suit.

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