Alonso the car developer

[Lithium]

I think all Greig was saying is that the car is probably designed for Alonso so it should be working better for him. Its pretty tough when nobody really knows whats wrong with it.

That is only a myth. Engineers do not design cars 'around' certain drivers. They try to design the fastest car possible.

[Red Rocket]

To much talk here of revolution. I get the impression the Ferrari needs major fine tuning and not this scrape the whole thing belief. 1 second is a big number but we have seen in past years quite a few cars with similar deficits suddenly make a tweak and they are with the front runners.

A good example is Mclaren during testing they were completely off the map yet come Australia copy the RBR's diffuser make few changes here and there and dud starts to look more like a winner. And before the revolutionary card about Mclaren is raised history is filled with great many revolutionary/quantum leap vehicles that achieved very little.

Having said this i have this "gut" feeling that Mclaren is going to encounter reliability issues this year. As I said just a gut feeling

[TheProdigalSon]

I think all Greig was saying is that the car is probably designed for Alonso so it should be working better for him. Its pretty tough when nobody really knows whats wrong with it.

I don't believe in a car can be designed around a person. Because surely Massa would have done better (or atleast been closer) in the F10 car than Alonso who just stepped into it. I think its more the in season development when they develop it to a drivers needs, naturaly the engineers listen more to whoever is faster. But Alonso and Massa have similar styles its just Massa can't get the tyres working as well.

[scuderiafan]

To much talk here of revolution. I get the impression the Ferrari needs major fine tuning and not this scrape the whole thing belief. 1 second is a big number but we have seen in past years quite a few cars with similar deficits suddenly make a tweak and they are with the front runners.

A good example is Mclaren during testing they were completely off the map yet come Australia copy the RBR's diffuser make few changes here and there and dud starts to look more like a winner. And before the revolutionary card about Mclaren is raised history is filled with great many revolutionary/quantum leap vehicles that achieved very little.

Having said this i have this "gut" feeling that Mclaren is going to encounter reliability issues this year. As I said just a gut feeling

+1

[TheProdigalSon]

To much talk here of revolution. I get the impression the Ferrari needs major fine tuning and not this scrape the whole thing belief. 1 second is a big number but we have seen in past years quite a few cars with similar deficits suddenly make a tweak and they are with the front runners.

A good example is Mclaren during testing they were completely off the map yet come Australia copy the RBR's diffuser make few changes here and there and dud starts to look more like a winner. And before the revolutionary card about Mclaren is raised history is filled with great many revolutionary/quantum leap vehicles that achieved very little.

Having said this i have this "gut" feeling that Mclaren is going to encounter reliability issues this year. As I said just a gut feeling

It would be better if Macca and redbull can take points of each other so it gives us more time to sort out our problems. Macca breaking down would actually be bad for us redbull would just run away with it,

[Meiga]

But in terms of handling, the car was twitchy and nervous and not enough grip out of the curves already in winter testing. I read some reports from people who had been there and this is what they said. And when i posted that here i was told numerous times 'not to worry'.

The lack of speed has- imho- a lot to do with the lack of grip. And we actually saw that already in winter. Just all the 'hype' from some journalists made people 'forget' about that.

You are probably right, I did not follow winter testing that closely (I didn't even managed to go to Jerez this year ) and mostly relied on different reports.

[RedRebel40]

Where is it?

I expected this car to be built around him, to give him what he needs...........

[Rosso Corsa]

I agree with Hermann. Our car was very twitchy throughout winter practice. Our lap times and consistency on tyres looked good, so despite the nervousness of the car, things looked okay. It's now very obvious that Red Bull didn't open up their car fully in winter practice, so the times we were comparing ourselves to were meaningless. And here we are. Our drivers aren't claiming that the car is slower since the winter testing. We haven't had a problem bringing our winter pace to the races. It's simply a case of, this is our pace.

We've seen pace deficits like this overturned in the past, but it's rare. We have to find solutions fast.

[TheProdigalSon]

We've seen pace deficits like this overturned in the past, but it's rare. We have to find solutions fast.

We've just seen one from mclaren. That gives me hope.

[LeonKennedy]

lol @ this topic

I think instead we should be asking why our engineers / designers seem to be struggling like if they were from HRT compared to RBR or McLaren

[scuderiafan]

I agree with Hermann. Our car was very twitchy throughout winter practice. Our lap times and consistency on tyres looked good, so despite the nervousness of the car, things looked okay. It's now very obvious that Red Bull didn't open up their car fully in winter practice, so the times we were comparing ourselves to were meaningless. And here we are. Our drivers aren't claiming that the car is slower since the winter testing. We haven't had a problem bringing our winter pace to the races. It's simply a case of, this is our pace.

We've seen pace deficits like this overturned in the past, but it's rare. We have to find solutions fast.

But Stefano said that Ferrari's performance during winter testing and what the wind tunnel was saying just didn't translate to the track. i know we are behind, but that surely isn't our full potential.

[TheProdigalSon]

But Stefano said that Ferrari's performance during winter testing and what the wind tunnel was saying just didn't translate to the track. i know we are behind, but that surely isn't our full potential.

It's like there's something on the car holding us back. I'll be relieved once we fix the problem. I can't believe I'm going to say this word but we need to 'unlock' the potential we saw in winter. I would be more worried if our car was just lacking pace, because it's a problem that's making us not fast hopefully when we fix it we will gain most of that one second back.

[RedRebel40]

it took Adrian Newey 4(2006-2010) years to design a car which could win the championship. easy guys

[crewskas]

Really now,
except Shumi's era, which he truly did developed the car with the whole team all years, by testing and testing and testing,
does anyone else know any driver out there to develop the car?

Because I don't...
And if someone says, hey Alonso did that, I would really like to know when...
Renault had potential by it's own, McLaren had Ferrari (lol) and when testing was banned, Renault again was nowhere...

Anyway, I can't blame the drivers, but I haven't seen anything like Schumacher regarding development and I 'm not sure I will see soon again...


Greig,
This might not be that good, but maybe we should make a poll, whom we should blame about being conservative or about our performance?

I'm really curious to see in numbers, how us the fans, understand who is the wrong guy (if not the guys)...

[tpe]

Stefano can say whatever he wants. FA anf FM drive the car and know better. FA was already vocal on that: "We are not fast enough". So, let's accept it. Ferrari was build around Schumacher, Todt, Brawn et al and of course, FIORANO. Loosing Fiorano meant that Ferrari lost it's ability to test and confirm the developments. That's all. McLaren has an excellent simulator, as RB has too. Where is Ferrari's? It's 2011 not 2004. And 2011 means CPU raw power. Has Ferrari a good simulator? The answer is simple: NO. If they had, they could translate the wind tunnel data into track data and vice versa.

[LeonKennedy]

I don't think we had any potential in winter. We looked awesome because our times were decent and we did a lot of laps.

The truth is that it seems it was for nothing as McLaren is not having any reability problems and "unlocked their potential" and RedBull didn't show their real pace in all the winter tests (but everyone was saying their car was a lot more fast as they could go with DRS in corners where others couldn't and accelerete much earlier in the corners).

They (and McLaren) made us look like amaterus...

[Red Rocket]

It would be better if Macca and redbull can take points of each other so it gives us more time to sort out our problems. Macca breaking down would actually be bad for us redbull would just run away with it,

I agree. But as I indicated it is a mere gut feeling and not a desire. If I could ask for something concrete it would be a dominate Ferrari.

[Hornet]

Where is it?

I expected this car to be built around him, to give him what he needs...........

Accustoming a car to a driver's preference is probably just a minor thing.

The biggest factor is still the raw pace of the car, which is something that is more general. You can customize a car to the kind of handling that a driver likes, but above all these small details like handling and stuff, is still the raw performance factors like being able to generate aero downforce. These are the things that everyone from the front to the back of the grid needs it regardless of their driving style. And this is where we're lacking.

Even during our better days with Schumi, with the entire team build around him, Rubens was also benefiting from it coming in 2nd in the overall title. Its not like Rubens was left at the back of the pack just because our superior car only benefited Schumi. A fast car is a fast car regardless of whether we build it around a driver's preference.

As much as I'd love to see Ferrari change their approach in certain things, I don't think we should criticizing them for everything, even if this season turns out to be a flop. No one wants to win more than Ferrari themself.

[crewskas]

Stefano can say whatever he wants. FA anf FM drive the car and know better. FA was already vocal on that: "We are not fast enough". So, let's accept it. Ferrari was build around Schumacher, Todt, Brawn et al and of course, FIORANO. Loosing Fiorano meant that Ferrari lost it's ability to test and confirm the developments. That's all. McLaren has an excellent simulator, as RB has too. Where is Ferrari's? It's 2011 not 2004. And 2011 means CPU raw power. Has Ferrari a good simulator? The answer is simple: NO. If they had, they could translate the wind tunnel data into track data and vice versa.

We have a brand new simulator...!
Just a year old, so I suppose better than Macca...


I'm not quite sure they know how to use it though...

Problem is,
Ferrari still develops the car from track testing, meaning Ferrari still stayed in the classic way, they used from Fiorano,
while others can do it by CFD, sim, tunnels...

[TheProdigalSon]

I don't think we had any potential in winter. We looked awesome because our times were decent and we did a lot of laps.

The truth is that it seems it was for nothing as McLaren is not having any reability problems and "unlocked their potential" and RedBull didn't show their real pace in all the winter tests (but everyone was saying their car was a lot more fast as they could go with DRS in corners where others couldn't and accelerete much earlier in the corners).

They (and McLaren) made us look like amaterus...

Easy to say that now ay? Well considering Ferrari are puzzled (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/form...e/13023980.stm) by the lack of pace then their probably in a better position to judge what pace they had in winter and what pace they have now.

[Alessandra]

What I'm surprised at is the continual statement "We have to understand...." or "We are trying to understand....." - everyone from Fry to the drivers to Domenicali has used this expression. In a car that is simply not delivering for either driver surely someone knows what the root cause is Don't they?
If you know that you can do domething about it. That appears to be what McLaren has done. They had a dog of a car, observed what the cause was and fixed it.
This approach, of course, takes money but Ferrari is not exactly strapped for cash. If it were Hispania or Lotus you could understand the financial handicap, but that's not our problem.

I really don't want to kick our team when it's down - and they certainly do seem to be down judging by the faces on the TV this morning - but what is it that isn't 'undertstood?'

Hands up all those who think they know. Answers on the back of a postcard to Maranello NOW!!!

[Ferrari Man]

During the winter tests both drivers were saying the car handled wel and were well balanced.. They slap on upgrades then for Australia and the car goes downhill... Surely to god it would make senset to take off these upgrades and go back to the winter test spec and rebuild from there...

[Alessandra]

For very interesting follow-on to all above posts turn to Ferrari mystified by lack of speed thread!

[Ferrari2183]

In a perfect world drivers would want a little understeer on corner entry (understeer gives you better braking stability), a neutral car during the mid point of the corner (weight distribution to the loaded outside wheels is equal and traction remains equal too) and oversteer during corner exit (allowing for tighter line on exit).

The Ferrari does have serious handling issues but Alonso is doing an exceptional job with it.

Seriously, what is this thread all about?

[Greig]

For a driver that don't understand his car, 4th in the first race and fifth in quali in the second race, that it's a good job by most of the people standards (driving the 3rd best car, pretty close to the 4th best car). You got the wrong person to blame.

I never blamed anyone, I am just wondering why all testing and simulator work and we still come here with a car we do not understand. As I look at Alonso as the lead driver and the one to bring the team forward I am wondering why these problems were not figured out by now. The engineers can't drive the car they need the drivers to tell them.

[sagi58]

At the risk of stating the obvious: EVERYONE must work together!!
Drivers, Engineers, Designers, Mechanics, Candlestick makers!!

No "one" person can be blamed, just as no "one" person can be
given all the credit! After all, there is no "I" in "TEAM", eh!!

Go TEAM!!!

[aroutis]

Where is it?

I expected this car to be built around him, to give him what he needs...........

Troll thread?

Different times I guess, not so much test time as 2005, 2004 and so forth so (just like a certain German) development of a car that has issues is not as easy as before

[Greig]

Yes its trolling to ask about our driver, why do you bother making such comments, its boring now after about 6 years

[aroutis]

I never blamed anyone, I am just wondering why all testing and simulator work and we still come here with a car we do not understand. As I look at Alonso as the lead driver and the one to bring the team forward I am wondering why these problems were not figured out by now. The engineers can't drive the car they need the drivers to tell them.

Perhaps the drivers do tell them, and the engineers don't do their part at the fullest. Who knows, perhaps there has to be a better team work (probably this is the case btw).

In any case, the fact is that Alonso is not to blame. There used to be a saying.... win as a team , lose as a team, ya that..

[aroutis]

Yes its trolling to ask about our driver, why do you bother making such comments, its boring now after about 6 years

Because to assume that it's the driver's fault for this situation is probably going to at least raise eyebrows of his fans. That's called trolling or flamebaiting.. And boring is also how you stir up things.

I guess things don't change some times do they ? ;)